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An Apology
To Eva from Iceland:
This is not much after what you have been through, but on behalf of those Americans that do care about our country, I offer you my apologies.
To Eva from Iceland:
This is not much after what you have been through, but on behalf of those Americans that do care about our country, I offer you my apologies.
America: The freest country?
The ideals of America have been SO corrupted by this administration. I am so ashamed of my government! I look forward to a Ron Paul administration to make amends for the police state now in control.
The ideals of America have been SO corrupted by this administration. I am so ashamed of my government! I look forward to a Ron Paul administration to make amends for the police state now in control.
Common Occurrance
Unfortunately this is standard procedure for the USA. A cousin of mine from the UK experienced very similar treatment for overstaying her holiday visa for 1 day. She had been advised that there should be no problem by her travel agent and managed to leave the US without any problems. On her next visit, she was also interrogated extensively, provided no food, chained like a criminal, not given the right to call or contact anybody, put into jail overnight and sent back to the UK the next day.
She has now been banned from visiting the USA for (at least) 10 years.
Prior to this happening she and her husband had planned to immigrate to the USA - he completed his MBA in Nth Carolina.
Apparently foreign nationals do not have any rights when visiting the USA.
Unfortunately this is standard procedure for the USA. A cousin of mine from the UK experienced very similar treatment for overstaying her holiday visa for 1 day. She had been advised that there should be no problem by her travel agent and managed to leave the US without any problems. On her next visit, she was also interrogated extensively, provided no food, chained like a criminal, not given the right to call or contact anybody, put into jail overnight and sent back to the UK the next day.
She has now been banned from visiting the USA for (at least) 10 years.
Prior to this happening she and her husband had planned to immigrate to the USA - he completed his MBA in Nth Carolina.
Apparently foreign nationals do not have any rights when visiting the USA.
Phenomenon of US banning entry
for no apparent reason to a lot of people looks is becoming a routine, imho. At the same time i noticed more aggressive campaign locally: if you don't get green card and don't move into US soon - you 've sold your life. Lots of US promo green card ads in newspapers and pretty much on every street cross; plus FREE of charge English courses with Americans for young people.
My take is - it's a pre-selection and psychological screening for youth without pangs of conscience whom the safe entry in the US would be favoured / granted. Upon arrival they will have to 'pay' for great American benevolence toward them by joining and doing dirty jobs in Blackwaters, police
for no apparent reason to a lot of people looks is becoming a routine, imho. At the same time i noticed more aggressive campaign locally: if you don't get green card and don't move into US soon - you 've sold your life. Lots of US promo green card ads in newspapers and pretty much on every street cross; plus FREE of charge English courses with Americans for young people.
My take is - it's a pre-selection and psychological screening for youth without pangs of conscience whom the safe entry in the US would be favoured / granted. Upon arrival they will have to 'pay' for great American benevolence toward them by joining and doing dirty jobs in Blackwaters, police
Psychopaths
Welcome to the New World, ladies and gentlemen. Can there be any doubt as to what the U.S. has become after reading an article like this?
Welcome to the New World, ladies and gentlemen. Can there be any doubt as to what the U.S. has become after reading an article like this?
All By Design
This incident is appalling and is becoming rampant in US airports. The inhumane treatment of this lady and the very public display of her being hauled through the airport in chains is a very effective way to create and nurture the climate of fear that is pervasive in the USA. And of course the public identify with the victims' trauma, fearing it could 'happen to them' instilling a mind set that lays the ground for a compliant populace
This incident is appalling and is becoming rampant in US airports. The inhumane treatment of this lady and the very public display of her being hauled through the airport in chains is a very effective way to create and nurture the climate of fear that is pervasive in the USA. And of course the public identify with the victims' trauma, fearing it could 'happen to them' instilling a mind set that lays the ground for a compliant populace
You Can't Be Serious . . .
This story and ensuing thread has me shaking my head in disbelief. Don't you guys get it? This woman broke the law! She overstayed her visa by three weeks and expected to come back to the US without hindrance. As far as I can see, she got what she deserved. If you want to be treated with respect and dignity, respect and dignify our laws. I'm sure the government in Iceland would expect the same from US citizens. Tens of thousands of foreign nationals stick to the rules every day and have no difficulty entering the US. Being blonde, beautiful, and from Iceland doesn't make you special here.
This story and ensuing thread has me shaking my head in disbelief. Don't you guys get it? This woman broke the law! She overstayed her visa by three weeks and expected to come back to the US without hindrance. As far as I can see, she got what she deserved. If you want to be treated with respect and dignity, respect and dignify our laws. I'm sure the government in Iceland would expect the same from US citizens. Tens of thousands of foreign nationals stick to the rules every day and have no difficulty entering the US. Being blonde, beautiful, and from Iceland doesn't make you special here.
A Sense of Proportion
That the woman be prohibited from re-entering the US is one thing.
That she be treated the way she was is another.
She broke the law, fine, send her home, but treating her like dirt is not necessary. Putting her in chains is not necessary. Putting her in jail is not necessary.
To equate overstaying her visa with some violent crime where the offender is a danger to others is black and white thinking: everyone who breaks the law is the same.
The officials involved, and you if you support them, have lost all sense of proportion. Did her crime really call for the humiliation she endured? Is the US better protected and do you feel more secure because the officials threw their weight around?
You seem to have a serious problem of being unable to judge consequences. You probably also think that the illegal kidnapping (extraordinary rendition) and torture of anyone the government decides is also OK, even though it is condemned by international law. Perhaps you think the US is too good to have to respect international law?
That the woman be prohibited from re-entering the US is one thing.
That she be treated the way she was is another.
She broke the law, fine, send her home, but treating her like dirt is not necessary. Putting her in chains is not necessary. Putting her in jail is not necessary.
To equate overstaying her visa with some violent crime where the offender is a danger to others is black and white thinking: everyone who breaks the law is the same.
The officials involved, and you if you support them, have lost all sense of proportion. Did her crime really call for the humiliation she endured? Is the US better protected and do you feel more secure because the officials threw their weight around?
You seem to have a serious problem of being unable to judge consequences. You probably also think that the illegal kidnapping (extraordinary rendition) and torture of anyone the government decides is also OK, even though it is condemned by international law. Perhaps you think the US is too good to have to respect international law?
Excuuuse me?!
Janusinsocal wrote: "She overstayed her visa by three weeks and expected to come back to the US without hindrance. As far as I can see, she got what she deserved."
Aside from the absolutely jaw-dropping hubris of such a remark, let me remind you that the rule of law generally means that the "punishment" fits the crime. I suppose you also advocate the Islamic laws which include stoning women for adultery and cutting off the hands of someone who steals a loaf of bread to keep from starving. I imagine you were behind those militarized police who were shooting Katrina victims who were taking food from flooded stores... food that would be spoiled and trashed anyway...
People like you certainly do deserve what you will get. And when it is you that offends, as you have and will, I rather suspect that your tune will change dramatically.
Janusinsocal wrote: "She overstayed her visa by three weeks and expected to come back to the US without hindrance. As far as I can see, she got what she deserved."
Aside from the absolutely jaw-dropping hubris of such a remark, let me remind you that the rule of law generally means that the "punishment" fits the crime. I suppose you also advocate the Islamic laws which include stoning women for adultery and cutting off the hands of someone who steals a loaf of bread to keep from starving. I imagine you were behind those militarized police who were shooting Katrina victims who were taking food from flooded stores... food that would be spoiled and trashed anyway...
People like you certainly do deserve what you will get. And when it is you that offends, as you have and will, I rather suspect that your tune will change dramatically.
Of course she was detained...
...Sept 11 has clearly demonstrated that intelligent, Icelandic blonde women are fanatic observers of a religion known to exhort violence against Americans and Europeans. Those ladies scare the hell out of me with all their recreational reading and shopping sprees. I'm surprised anyone is surprised here.
...Sept 11 has clearly demonstrated that intelligent, Icelandic blonde women are fanatic observers of a religion known to exhort violence against Americans and Europeans. Those ladies scare the hell out of me with all their recreational reading and shopping sprees. I'm surprised anyone is surprised here.
lol
Yes, exactly - couldn't have said it better than Corajudd if the hallucination of 'american freedom' depended on it.
=)
Yes, exactly - couldn't have said it better than Corajudd if the hallucination of 'american freedom' depended on it.
=)
Surprised?
I suppose that "intelligent, Icelandic blonde women" are also incapable of breaking any law here in the US. Perhaps it's the job of our Customs agents to do more than simply identify potential terrorists . . . perhaps spotting trouble-makers who ignore State Department-mandated visa expirations is a part of their job as well. Don't we have enough citizen law-breakers without having to put up with foreign ones?
I suppose that "intelligent, Icelandic blonde women" are also incapable of breaking any law here in the US. Perhaps it's the job of our Customs agents to do more than simply identify potential terrorists . . . perhaps spotting trouble-makers who ignore State Department-mandated visa expirations is a part of their job as well. Don't we have enough citizen law-breakers without having to put up with foreign ones?
Soon...
The U.S. will not have to put up with any "foreign law breakers" because all the foreigners will stay home and keep their money at home. And, since all the jobs in the U.S. are being outsourced to China and India, people like you can just sit there and rot and no one will care when you start begging for bread because you certainly didn't offer any to a stranger.
The U.S. will not have to put up with any "foreign law breakers" because all the foreigners will stay home and keep their money at home. And, since all the jobs in the U.S. are being outsourced to China and India, people like you can just sit there and rot and no one will care when you start begging for bread because you certainly didn't offer any to a stranger.
Give Me A Break!
To Janusinsocal and the others who've spewed "law n' order" retorts to this article, I assume you've never commited a technical breach of the law: You never exceeded the speed limit, you never jaywalked, you never filed your taxes a day or two late, you never found a $5 bill on the sidewalk and stuffed it in your pocket instead of turning it in to the police, you never drove through a yellow light.
This woman may have overstayed her visa by 72 hours once, more than a decade ago, but her treatment in my name by my government is appalling. It makes me ashamed to be an American; it also explains why I live outside the US and won't come "home" until the rule of law is restored.
To Janusinsocal and the others who've spewed "law n' order" retorts to this article, I assume you've never commited a technical breach of the law: You never exceeded the speed limit, you never jaywalked, you never filed your taxes a day or two late, you never found a $5 bill on the sidewalk and stuffed it in your pocket instead of turning it in to the police, you never drove through a yellow light.
This woman may have overstayed her visa by 72 hours once, more than a decade ago, but her treatment in my name by my government is appalling. It makes me ashamed to be an American; it also explains why I live outside the US and won't come "home" until the rule of law is restored.
The terrorists truly have won
This is exactly the reaction terrorism is meant to provoke, NOTHING should have changed after 911, stories like this illustrate why. As an American, I am ashamed and embarrassed by this story, and although it probably doesn't help, on behalf of this tiny part of America, I'm so sorry.
This is exactly the reaction terrorism is meant to provoke, NOTHING should have changed after 911, stories like this illustrate why. As an American, I am ashamed and embarrassed by this story, and although it probably doesn't help, on behalf of this tiny part of America, I'm so sorry.
Sorry?
Tell the families of the nearly 3000 innocent citizens who were murdered on 9-11 that nothing should have changed. Oh, and I suppose that you haven't noticed that several planned attacks on our country and in other countries have been thwarted by the policies set forth by the US State Department regarding visas and immigration. Since 9-11, not one attack. While you're at it, ask the families of the victims how many of them wish we had done what we're doing now before 9-11.
Tell the families of the nearly 3000 innocent citizens who were murdered on 9-11 that nothing should have changed. Oh, and I suppose that you haven't noticed that several planned attacks on our country and in other countries have been thwarted by the policies set forth by the US State Department regarding visas and immigration. Since 9-11, not one attack. While you're at it, ask the families of the victims how many of them wish we had done what we're doing now before 9-11.
They have won
Janusinsocal:
As someone who was at ground zero, and who knows people who lost family there, I'd like to assure you that detaining icelandic women is NOT helping us win the war on terror or make anyone feel better about being attacked. Its also not going to stop another attack. You're example #1 of how the terrorists have beaten us. We're willing to sign away our rights and those of our friends for a fictitious sense of 'security'. As a country we're also far to thin skinned. London would lose 3000 people in a week during WW2. We go around bombing country after country and then when someone finally manages to hit us back, we go beserk and invade everyone we can. Again, this is just what the terrorists were trying to get us to do.
And even with the improvements to security, please explain to me how chaining someone who is clearly not a threat keeps us safe. Do you feel safer that this woman was held for 24 hours without any recourse to law? I don't. I worry that its only one step until our government starts holding it's own citizens without recourse to law.
Janusinsocal:
As someone who was at ground zero, and who knows people who lost family there, I'd like to assure you that detaining icelandic women is NOT helping us win the war on terror or make anyone feel better about being attacked. Its also not going to stop another attack. You're example #1 of how the terrorists have beaten us. We're willing to sign away our rights and those of our friends for a fictitious sense of 'security'. As a country we're also far to thin skinned. London would lose 3000 people in a week during WW2. We go around bombing country after country and then when someone finally manages to hit us back, we go beserk and invade everyone we can. Again, this is just what the terrorists were trying to get us to do.
And even with the improvements to security, please explain to me how chaining someone who is clearly not a threat keeps us safe. Do you feel safer that this woman was held for 24 hours without any recourse to law? I don't. I worry that its only one step until our government starts holding it's own citizens without recourse to law.
ANTHRAX happened since 9/11
Janusinsocal repeats the GOP propaganda lie that "Since 9-11, not one attack."
FALSE.
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its FBI case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on September 18, 2001. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two Democratic U.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others. The crime remains unsolved.
Don't believe the lies. Demand the truth and demand action on this homegrown terrorist act that targets Democrats, the media, and the American people.
Janusinsocal repeats the GOP propaganda lie that "Since 9-11, not one attack."
FALSE.
The 2001 anthrax attacks in the United States, also known as Amerithrax from its FBI case name, occurred over the course of several weeks beginning on September 18, 2001. Letters containing anthrax spores were mailed to several news media offices and two Democratic U.S. Senators, killing five people and infecting 17 others. The crime remains unsolved.
Don't believe the lies. Demand the truth and demand action on this homegrown terrorist act that targets Democrats, the media, and the American people.
I disagree
I do not think any of her treatment was inhumane(so sorry she got porridge instead of filet mignon), and I suggest people not break laws if they want to be treated better than a criminal. I refuse to join the "I hate america" bandwagon, thanks.
I do not think any of her treatment was inhumane(so sorry she got porridge instead of filet mignon), and I suggest people not break laws if they want to be treated better than a criminal. I refuse to join the "I hate america" bandwagon, thanks.
Would you think the same thing if...
it happened to you for exceeding the speed limit?
Do you not recognize there is a difference between overstaying a visa, or speeding, and planning and carrying out a violent crime?
it happened to you for exceeding the speed limit?
Do you not recognize there is a difference between overstaying a visa, or speeding, and planning and carrying out a violent crime?
You disagree?
I think the point you are missing is that the punishment massively outweighed the crime. Jesus christ, the woman was on holiday and for some reason overstayed her visit! What is wrong with simply informing her of this and sending her home? Are you really suggesting that being shackled in irons and thrown into jail is a reasonable punishment for staying a little too long in the "greatest democracy on earth"?? You should think seriously about supporting such draconian measures by US law enforcement, because if you and others like you do so, one of these days the same treatment is going to be meted out to you for a damn parking offence! GET IT??
I think the point you are missing is that the punishment massively outweighed the crime. Jesus christ, the woman was on holiday and for some reason overstayed her visit! What is wrong with simply informing her of this and sending her home? Are you really suggesting that being shackled in irons and thrown into jail is a reasonable punishment for staying a little too long in the "greatest democracy on earth"?? You should think seriously about supporting such draconian measures by US law enforcement, because if you and others like you do so, one of these days the same treatment is going to be meted out to you for a damn parking offence! GET IT??
Doesn't surprise me
No phone call or consulate help when asked for? No food or sleep? Doesn't McCain btch when terrorist are treated that way? What does her period have to do with a few weeks over stay years ago? They gave her a physical exam, why? To make sure she didn't plan to drop a kid on US soil? Why ask if she ever tried to commit suicide? Were they looking for an excuse to classify her insane and put her in one of those Halliburton community centers [with bobbed wire and iron bars]? Sounds like commie police state questions to me.
For the most part we're under International law and they're slowing introducing us to a police state. I keep hearing praise from the powers that be of how wonderful communist China is. So this doesn't surprise me.
No phone call or consulate help when asked for? No food or sleep? Doesn't McCain btch when terrorist are treated that way? What does her period have to do with a few weeks over stay years ago? They gave her a physical exam, why? To make sure she didn't plan to drop a kid on US soil? Why ask if she ever tried to commit suicide? Were they looking for an excuse to classify her insane and put her in one of those Halliburton community centers [with bobbed wire and iron bars]? Sounds like commie police state questions to me.
For the most part we're under International law and they're slowing introducing us to a police state. I keep hearing praise from the powers that be of how wonderful communist China is. So this doesn't surprise me.
Me Neither
Customs officers often ask personal questions so that they can compare answers given under different situations and times; it's one way they find out if the person they're questioning is lying. Also, it's a well-known fact that pregnant mothers from other countries very often come to the US to give birth because our health care system provides free delivery in better conditions than they would find in their own country.
As to whether or not communist China is so wonderful, I suggest you gather some information on student protests/uprisings in the summer of 1989 in Tiananmen square. Moreover, China is much more capitalistic than you can imagine. Why don't you move there for a while and see for yourself?
One other thing: it's always hilarious to hear about the Cheney/Haliburton-conspiracy-against-freedom thing; after all, you know that despite the fact the guy was worth millions before he came to public office, he spends all of his time in back rooms filled with smoke thinking of ways he and Bush can take away our rights . . .
Please.
Customs officers often ask personal questions so that they can compare answers given under different situations and times; it's one way they find out if the person they're questioning is lying. Also, it's a well-known fact that pregnant mothers from other countries very often come to the US to give birth because our health care system provides free delivery in better conditions than they would find in their own country.
As to whether or not communist China is so wonderful, I suggest you gather some information on student protests/uprisings in the summer of 1989 in Tiananmen square. Moreover, China is much more capitalistic than you can imagine. Why don't you move there for a while and see for yourself?
One other thing: it's always hilarious to hear about the Cheney/Haliburton-conspiracy-against-freedom thing; after all, you know that despite the fact the guy was worth millions before he came to public office, he spends all of his time in back rooms filled with smoke thinking of ways he and Bush can take away our rights . . .
Please.
Ummm.... methinks you have the wrong country...
Janusinsocal wrote: "Also, it's a well-known fact that pregnant mothers from other countries very often come to the US to give birth because our health care system provides free delivery in better conditions than they would find in their own country."
Hate to tell you this bud but the U.S. healthcare system is among the worst in the world and the infant mortality rate is shocking. Have a look here: [Link]
and here: [Link]
where you will read:
"According to recent stats from the World Health Organization, the U.S. ranks 33rd in infant mortality and 38th in life expectancy, behind such economic powerhouses as the Czech Republic."
As for the rest of your ignorant nonsense, I begin to smell a Troll.
Janusinsocal wrote: "Also, it's a well-known fact that pregnant mothers from other countries very often come to the US to give birth because our health care system provides free delivery in better conditions than they would find in their own country."
Hate to tell you this bud but the U.S. healthcare system is among the worst in the world and the infant mortality rate is shocking. Have a look here: [Link]
and here: [Link]
where you will read:
"According to recent stats from the World Health Organization, the U.S. ranks 33rd in infant mortality and 38th in life expectancy, behind such economic powerhouses as the Czech Republic."
As for the rest of your ignorant nonsense, I begin to smell a Troll.
Fine . . .
Dwell in your paranoia, angst, and distrust. For you it will always be the worst of times; personally, I'd rather live in the best of all possible worlds and believe it or not, I wish the same for you.
Dwell in your paranoia, angst, and distrust. For you it will always be the worst of times; personally, I'd rather live in the best of all possible worlds and believe it or not, I wish the same for you.
Superior health system in Iceland
To add to what Laura wrote, the infant mortality rate is lowest in the world in Iceland. And according to a recent Human Development report by the UN (http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/hdr_20072008_en_complete.pdf), Iceland is the best country in the world to live in, while USA is far back. There are very few things in America which should attract Icelandic people to live in the USA, except for maybe better golf courses. :-)
To add to what Laura wrote, the infant mortality rate is lowest in the world in Iceland. And according to a recent Human Development report by the UN (http://hdr.undp.org/en/media/hdr_20072008_en_complete.pdf), Iceland is the best country in the world to live in, while USA is far back. There are very few things in America which should attract Icelandic people to live in the USA, except for maybe better golf courses. :-)
Best of Times
Janusinsocal:
> Dwell in your paranoia, angst, and distrust. For you it will
> always be the worst of times; personally, I'd rather live in
> the best of all possible worlds and believe it or not, I wish
> the same for you.
Trouble is, the best of times isn't decided by personal fiat. It is a question of looking at the data. The data shows that the US is reacting over and over again "out of proportion" to perceived offences. Such an attitude is the mark of a country that is going through a period of hysteria. It has happened elsewhere (think Germany in the 20s and 30s) and can be studied critically.
When multiple police cars are sent out because some kids are skateboarding on private property, or people are tasered on the front lawns for having a smoke, or a man who looks figgity is surrounded by the SWAT team, society has lost any sense of perspective. But the point of these manoeuvres is to inflict a state of fear on the population. The message is: "You could be next".
If you want to live in an illusion, that is your choice. Just don't come weeping to us when your illusory world is shattered.
Janusinsocal:
> Dwell in your paranoia, angst, and distrust. For you it will
> always be the worst of times; personally, I'd rather live in
> the best of all possible worlds and believe it or not, I wish
> the same for you.
Trouble is, the best of times isn't decided by personal fiat. It is a question of looking at the data. The data shows that the US is reacting over and over again "out of proportion" to perceived offences. Such an attitude is the mark of a country that is going through a period of hysteria. It has happened elsewhere (think Germany in the 20s and 30s) and can be studied critically.
When multiple police cars are sent out because some kids are skateboarding on private property, or people are tasered on the front lawns for having a smoke, or a man who looks figgity is surrounded by the SWAT team, society has lost any sense of perspective. But the point of these manoeuvres is to inflict a state of fear on the population. The message is: "You could be next".
If you want to live in an illusion, that is your choice. Just don't come weeping to us when your illusory world is shattered.
The answer to a simple question
"I hope to receive some explanation why I was treated this way."
Because they can.
"I hope to receive some explanation why I was treated this way."
Because they can.
A simple solution
The simple solution is to not enter the USA or any of its territories. If you want to buy a product from there, buy it online. If you want a holiday, go somewhere else. I had better treatment with visa problems in Cambodia than those described here! Also advise people not to enter the United States. It's as simple as that. I don't know why any one would want to go there anyway...
The simple solution is to not enter the USA or any of its territories. If you want to buy a product from there, buy it online. If you want a holiday, go somewhere else. I had better treatment with visa problems in Cambodia than those described here! Also advise people not to enter the United States. It's as simple as that. I don't know why any one would want to go there anyway...
Exactly!
It's time for a moratorium on the U.S. - don't buy their products, don't go there for vacation and spend your money there... let them rot in their delusional superiority.
It's time for a moratorium on the U.S. - don't buy their products, don't go there for vacation and spend your money there... let them rot in their delusional superiority.
...
i would agree with you laura except that there ARE those of us who live there who don't agree with how our country is run and how things are...
i would agree with you laura except that there ARE those of us who live there who don't agree with how our country is run and how things are...
There is a name for this: Fascism.
US with Patriot Act has basically wiped out the notion of human rights. And UK is following the same path. They can jail you for ALMOST as long as they want on no charges. This to instill awe and terror in civilian population and ensure that nobody will resist the next wave of violence which will accompany their next oil wars (Iran, Venezuela).
US with Patriot Act has basically wiped out the notion of human rights. And UK is following the same path. They can jail you for ALMOST as long as they want on no charges. This to instill awe and terror in civilian population and ensure that nobody will resist the next wave of violence which will accompany their next oil wars (Iran, Venezuela).
Buddy, You Don't Know Fascism
Do you actually believe every non-US national being detained and/or jailed at this moment is innocent and that the US starts war for oil? On the first point, citizen or not you have rights here as long as you remain a law-abiding member of our society. As far as the oil wars go, you probably also believe in UFOs. Let's have some proof. And I don't see Bush trying to amend the constitution to become President for life.
Do you actually believe every non-US national being detained and/or jailed at this moment is innocent and that the US starts war for oil? On the first point, citizen or not you have rights here as long as you remain a law-abiding member of our society. As far as the oil wars go, you probably also believe in UFOs. Let's have some proof. And I don't see Bush trying to amend the constitution to become President for life.
Here's what we should do.
I've read countless stories like this printed in newspapers, where this same treatment was given to even journalists (e.g.: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1231089,00.html), and I pretty much know what to do against this: Join the likes of Brazil and Venezuela and start harassing american citizens the same way when they travel anywhere in the world.
If this can happen to a hot, blonde, young icelandic chick. What would be of me, an ugly, dark-haired, dark-skinned, mature, terrorist-looking spaniard?
I've read countless stories like this printed in newspapers, where this same treatment was given to even journalists (e.g.: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1231089,00.html), and I pretty much know what to do against this: Join the likes of Brazil and Venezuela and start harassing american citizens the same way when they travel anywhere in the world.
If this can happen to a hot, blonde, young icelandic chick. What would be of me, an ugly, dark-haired, dark-skinned, mature, terrorist-looking spaniard?
Are you as Dumb as you sound?
For starters, to Eva:
1) Know our laws, & don't over-stay... if you do, figure out how to make it right before coming back.
2) Most kind hearted Americans (including myself) apologize for the actions you experienced while here in our beautiful country.
What prompted me to write this reply, and to Dookados, you said:
"Join the likes of Brazil and Venezuela and start harassing american citizens the same way when they travel anywhere in the world."
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, RIGHT?
We are under the same attack, by our own government. We are no different than you, really. Just like you, our own government can stick us in a room, even without the crappy food - for an indefinite period of time and not even speak to us (and have done exactly that already to American Citizens). Yes, it's legal for them to do that. In reality, you should sympathize.
Just because of some greedy power hungry people who make the rules and run our country your MENSA like intellect suggests you harass those who give to your economy.
That's priceless... really.
Hope you don't harass some 'Dirty Harry' type American who is having a bad day (notice the capitalization of AMERICAN).
Really people ~ can't we all just get along?
For starters, to Eva:
1) Know our laws, & don't over-stay... if you do, figure out how to make it right before coming back.
2) Most kind hearted Americans (including myself) apologize for the actions you experienced while here in our beautiful country.
What prompted me to write this reply, and to Dookados, you said:
"Join the likes of Brazil and Venezuela and start harassing american citizens the same way when they travel anywhere in the world."
YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME, RIGHT?
We are under the same attack, by our own government. We are no different than you, really. Just like you, our own government can stick us in a room, even without the crappy food - for an indefinite period of time and not even speak to us (and have done exactly that already to American Citizens). Yes, it's legal for them to do that. In reality, you should sympathize.
Just because of some greedy power hungry people who make the rules and run our country your MENSA like intellect suggests you harass those who give to your economy.
That's priceless... really.
Hope you don't harass some 'Dirty Harry' type American who is having a bad day (notice the capitalization of AMERICAN).
Really people ~ can't we all just get along?
No, HERE's what we should do.
First, let's lock up ALL the journalists from the Guardian; they're practically terrorists anyway with the way they lie. Then, let's start harassing innocent people to show how righteous and indignant we are about what the US does in it's own country when people break the law. In fact, let's just do away with all borders, laws, government, police, military, teachers, Starbucks, and ugly, dark-haired, dark-skinned, mature, terrorist-looking Spaniards so we can live in caves and become truly peaceful inhabitants of the Earth.
First, let's lock up ALL the journalists from the Guardian; they're practically terrorists anyway with the way they lie. Then, let's start harassing innocent people to show how righteous and indignant we are about what the US does in it's own country when people break the law. In fact, let's just do away with all borders, laws, government, police, military, teachers, Starbucks, and ugly, dark-haired, dark-skinned, mature, terrorist-looking Spaniards so we can live in caves and become truly peaceful inhabitants of the Earth.
Sorry about that, our government is evil and all...
I'd feel like I was apologizing for an obnoxious friend, except the US government is not my friend...
Just be thankful you get to go back to a nice, clean, peaceful and relatively free country Eva. We Americans have to live here.
The is the problem with tyranny is that it takes the petty, stupid and unqualified and gives them power. That's what you were dealing with Eva. A bunch of stupid morons empowered by the government for that very purpose. These people live for the chance to humiliate some hapless traveler like you.
By the way Dookados, you should probably know that the people who did this to Eva were almost certainly of the "dark-haired, dark-haired.." persuasion. This is NY we're talking about. My guess is that was part of her problem. Racism isn't just for white people you know...
-Ken
www.LaserGuidedLoogie.com
I'd feel like I was apologizing for an obnoxious friend, except the US government is not my friend...
Just be thankful you get to go back to a nice, clean, peaceful and relatively free country Eva. We Americans have to live here.
The is the problem with tyranny is that it takes the petty, stupid and unqualified and gives them power. That's what you were dealing with Eva. A bunch of stupid morons empowered by the government for that very purpose. These people live for the chance to humiliate some hapless traveler like you.
By the way Dookados, you should probably know that the people who did this to Eva were almost certainly of the "dark-haired, dark-haired.." persuasion. This is NY we're talking about. My guess is that was part of her problem. Racism isn't just for white people you know...
-Ken
www.LaserGuidedLoogie.com
A Response
To be heard in the voice of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog:
OH, I AM SO SORRY FOR HOW TERRIBLE WE AMERICANS ARE . . . WE ARE SO NOT WORTHY TO HAVE THE BEAUTIFUL BLONDE WOMEN FROM ICELAND COME AND BREAK OUR LAWS BY STAYING LONGER THAN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO. OUR GOVERNMENT WHICH SUPPLIES FOOD AND HEALTH CARE TO COUNTLESS MILLIONS OF POOR DESTITUTE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD IS NOT MY FRIEND. WE ARE SUCH MORONS
To be heard in the voice of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog:
OH, I AM SO SORRY FOR HOW TERRIBLE WE AMERICANS ARE . . . WE ARE SO NOT WORTHY TO HAVE THE BEAUTIFUL BLONDE WOMEN FROM ICELAND COME AND BREAK OUR LAWS BY STAYING LONGER THAN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO. OUR GOVERNMENT WHICH SUPPLIES FOOD AND HEALTH CARE TO COUNTLESS MILLIONS OF POOR DESTITUTE PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD IS NOT MY FRIEND. WE ARE SUCH MORONS
A Response (con't)
FOR BEING THE MOST CHARITABLE NATION ON EARTH AND SAVING COUNTLESS NUMBERS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD FROM HITLER, SADDAM, AND OTHER DICTATORS. OUR COUNTRY IS NEITHER NICE, CLEAN NOR PEACEFUL AND WE ARE ALL MOVING TO ICELAND WHERE THE BEAUTIFUL BLONDE WOMEN ARE LIVING BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER TREAT US BADLY FOR BREAKING THE LAW AND BECAUSE PUPPIES RUN FREELY, BUNNIES AND CHIPMUNKS FROLIC, AND EVERYONE HAS THE MINTY FRESH BREATH.
FOR BEING THE MOST CHARITABLE NATION ON EARTH AND SAVING COUNTLESS NUMBERS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD FROM HITLER, SADDAM, AND OTHER DICTATORS. OUR COUNTRY IS NEITHER NICE, CLEAN NOR PEACEFUL AND WE ARE ALL MOVING TO ICELAND WHERE THE BEAUTIFUL BLONDE WOMEN ARE LIVING BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER TREAT US BADLY FOR BREAKING THE LAW AND BECAUSE PUPPIES RUN FREELY, BUNNIES AND CHIPMUNKS FROLIC, AND EVERYONE HAS THE MINTY FRESH BREATH.
A rational response:
Yeah, we spent about 6 billion on aid to the world last year. 3 of that went to those most deserving Israelis. I heard that they were really short of food and housing there.
I think if we count up the number of terrible dictators we installed vs the number we removed, it would probably make your argument look rather daft. Shit, we supported Saddam in the 80s.
As for how we spend our hard-earned money, some estimates put the cost of the Iraq war at around 1-2 trillion $. 26 million people live in iraq. We could have bombed hussein and given every man, woman and child in iraq 43,000$. Instead we spent that money to destroy their country, kill untold numbers, and create 2 million refugees.
Yeah, we spent about 6 billion on aid to the world last year. 3 of that went to those most deserving Israelis. I heard that they were really short of food and housing there.
I think if we count up the number of terrible dictators we installed vs the number we removed, it would probably make your argument look rather daft. Shit, we supported Saddam in the 80s.
As for how we spend our hard-earned money, some estimates put the cost of the Iraq war at around 1-2 trillion $. 26 million people live in iraq. We could have bombed hussein and given every man, woman and child in iraq 43,000$. Instead we spent that money to destroy their country, kill untold numbers, and create 2 million refugees.
A clear message to the rest of the world
This treatment of visitors once more speaks loudly of America’s contempt for the people of the rest of the world. I have no intention of visiting...
A concerned Australian.
This treatment of visitors once more speaks loudly of America’s contempt for the people of the rest of the world. I have no intention of visiting...
A concerned Australian.
It's Not Only The Rest Of The World...
Name's Mark,
I'm a 17 year old american citizen, and I am currently in High School. I go to a tech school and am enrolled in Security & Police Sciences. Now, believe me, I don't want to do anything with the Law when i get out of school, I want to be a musician, but installing home security systems is something to fall back on. Anyways, I was currently arrested for trespassing on private property (my school) on a weekend. I was only skateboarding (with one friend), when an adult waled up, started yelling at us, and said he was calling the police. within minutes, one police cruiser shows up from the Phoenixville Police Dept.- understandable. But! i know the cops in my hometown better than they think! I guessed correctly, and within 30 sec. of the first cruiser arriving, one after another shows up. the ONLY officer not the was the police chief. Even our town's K-9 unit was there. In front of the entire neighborhood, we were patted down, told not to talk, cuffed, thrown into police cars, and escorted to the station by 12, count 'em, 12 police cars. no Miranda Rights were read to us, no phone calls, just cuffed to a metal bench, and told to stay quiet (not politely either) until they asked for our names. by the end of the day, we were released with a $350 fine. So, th jist of my little novel is that U.S. citizens are treated just the same as foreigners if they're not politicians. I'm with you dude! FIGHT THE POWER.
Name's Mark,
I'm a 17 year old american citizen, and I am currently in High School. I go to a tech school and am enrolled in Security & Police Sciences. Now, believe me, I don't want to do anything with the Law when i get out of school, I want to be a musician, but installing home security systems is something to fall back on. Anyways, I was currently arrested for trespassing on private property (my school) on a weekend. I was only skateboarding (with one friend), when an adult waled up, started yelling at us, and said he was calling the police. within minutes, one police cruiser shows up from the Phoenixville Police Dept.- understandable. But! i know the cops in my hometown better than they think! I guessed correctly, and within 30 sec. of the first cruiser arriving, one after another shows up. the ONLY officer not the was the police chief. Even our town's K-9 unit was there. In front of the entire neighborhood, we were patted down, told not to talk, cuffed, thrown into police cars, and escorted to the station by 12, count 'em, 12 police cars. no Miranda Rights were read to us, no phone calls, just cuffed to a metal bench, and told to stay quiet (not politely either) until they asked for our names. by the end of the day, we were released with a $350 fine. So, th jist of my little novel is that U.S. citizens are treated just the same as foreigners if they're not politicians. I'm with you dude! FIGHT THE POWER.
reply to Cairin
Your reply demonstrates that the modern public school system can claim you as a success. The ongoing attack on the American government, you equate with an attack on America. In fact, it is a case, so amply demonstrated in your ignorant reply, that the American government, like the British Crown before it, is the enemy of America. I won't accuse you of being stupid but your slavish adherence to a false god jeopardizes your progeny to chains at least as bad as any peoples excepting North Korea. That, whatever your level of intelligence, puts you in some pretty bad company, real America haters.
Your reply demonstrates that the modern public school system can claim you as a success. The ongoing attack on the American government, you equate with an attack on America. In fact, it is a case, so amply demonstrated in your ignorant reply, that the American government, like the British Crown before it, is the enemy of America. I won't accuse you of being stupid but your slavish adherence to a false god jeopardizes your progeny to chains at least as bad as any peoples excepting North Korea. That, whatever your level of intelligence, puts you in some pretty bad company, real America haters.
We're very sorry, but the world be warned
A very similar thing happened to my wife's cousin who is a german citizen and also young and attractive. She mad the mistake of saying she wanted to be an actress in NYC to the immigration guy when they asked her why she was visiting. She was "interviewed" for about 8 hours before they let her in. The last thing that the immigration guy said to her basically was "never come back". Mind you, she has american relatives.
To the World: Our country has lost it's mind. If you have ever overstayed a visa here or otherwise have any kind of warrant that our gov't thinks applies to you, stay at home. We treat people coming into the country as criminals until proven otherwise.
To those who say that she broke the law: Immigration rules and laws are a very grey area. They can be "pardoned" but an embassy, unlike any other law that is in the USA. They can be applied completely arbitrarily based on the color of your skin or hair unlike the rest of our laws. There is no due process whatsoever to anyone found breaking these laws, unlike the rest of our laws.
As an American citizen, I am truly horrified at the path my country has taken, and I detest the way that our gov't treats visitors. I hope to visit Iceland one day, and I know you won't treat me as we've treated you. I'm sorry.
As for this kind of "screening" performing any kind of security. Why do you have to chain someone to stick them on the next plane home? It's completely beyond belief.
A very similar thing happened to my wife's cousin who is a german citizen and also young and attractive. She mad the mistake of saying she wanted to be an actress in NYC to the immigration guy when they asked her why she was visiting. She was "interviewed" for about 8 hours before they let her in. The last thing that the immigration guy said to her basically was "never come back". Mind you, she has american relatives.
To the World: Our country has lost it's mind. If you have ever overstayed a visa here or otherwise have any kind of warrant that our gov't thinks applies to you, stay at home. We treat people coming into the country as criminals until proven otherwise.
To those who say that she broke the law: Immigration rules and laws are a very grey area. They can be "pardoned" but an embassy, unlike any other law that is in the USA. They can be applied completely arbitrarily based on the color of your skin or hair unlike the rest of our laws. There is no due process whatsoever to anyone found breaking these laws, unlike the rest of our laws.
As an American citizen, I am truly horrified at the path my country has taken, and I detest the way that our gov't treats visitors. I hope to visit Iceland one day, and I know you won't treat me as we've treated you. I'm sorry.
As for this kind of "screening" performing any kind of security. Why do you have to chain someone to stick them on the next plane home? It's completely beyond belief.
i have an idea
stay in your own country, we have enough problems with mexicans and these stupid muslim terrorist cab drivers, you cam here and overstayed your welcome, dont come back
god bless america
stay in your own country, we have enough problems with mexicans and these stupid muslim terrorist cab drivers, you cam here and overstayed your welcome, dont come back
god bless america
You are the UGLY American
Some of us TRUE Americans welcome our foreign friends and don't hate and fear all that is different they way you cowards on the far right do. Frankly, I'd rather you leave and they come take your place. This would be a more beautiful and decent country again, no doubt.
Some of us TRUE Americans welcome our foreign friends and don't hate and fear all that is different they way you cowards on the far right do. Frankly, I'd rather you leave and they come take your place. This would be a more beautiful and decent country again, no doubt.
how DARE you
how can you say "god bless america" after writing what you wrote above that? i don't think God would appreciate you using his name as a fucking back-up for things like "stupid muslim terrorist cab drivers."
how can you say "god bless america" after writing what you wrote above that? i don't think God would appreciate you using his name as a fucking back-up for things like "stupid muslim terrorist cab drivers."
from a police officer
I am a police officer in the US and this appalls me. Assuming we have all of the facts, this woman was at no time a security risk to anyone. It would have been perfectly legal for one of the dipshits involved to let her use her cell or to show come compassion. I have always been very polite and respectful to those that I am in charge of as a police officer, even to the occasional drunk that wants to fight or spit on me. When I see people treated like this lady it makes me wonder if the hiring process was totally thrown out and monkeys were given uniforms and batons..... Please let me apologize for the incompetent treatment you received.
I am a police officer in the US and this appalls me. Assuming we have all of the facts, this woman was at no time a security risk to anyone. It would have been perfectly legal for one of the dipshits involved to let her use her cell or to show come compassion. I have always been very polite and respectful to those that I am in charge of as a police officer, even to the occasional drunk that wants to fight or spit on me. When I see people treated like this lady it makes me wonder if the hiring process was totally thrown out and monkeys were given uniforms and batons..... Please let me apologize for the incompetent treatment you received.
Ignorance Isn't Bliss
If you want to come here, know the rules. You just can't overstay your visa.
This procedure, if we want to control who is in our country, will have to tighten even further, so learn the law. I took my advice from the travel agent isn't going to make it.
40% of the illegal alien population consists of over-stays. The white whine sippers, in many cases, are exactly the problem and many simply think the rules don't apply to them. "Small kings with megalomania." Sounds like 'Queen' didn't get her way. In dealing with legal officials, attitude goes a long way.
If you want to come here, know the rules. You just can't overstay your visa.
This procedure, if we want to control who is in our country, will have to tighten even further, so learn the law. I took my advice from the travel agent isn't going to make it.
40% of the illegal alien population consists of over-stays. The white whine sippers, in many cases, are exactly the problem and many simply think the rules don't apply to them. "Small kings with megalomania." Sounds like 'Queen' didn't get her way. In dealing with legal officials, attitude goes a long way.
So let me get your logic straight: you think that a valid way of getting rid of people who overstay their welcomes here is to keep people from returning who LEFT after overstaying for a short period of time from coming back. And then not just saying "sorry, go home", but chaining them up, locking them in NJ for as long as we want (yes some people are left there for months), and not letting them contact anyone is the right way to handle it.
I'm sorry sir, this logic doesn't cut it. If someone overstays a visa and stays, that's a problem. If they overstay a visa and leave, then that's not a problem. Often time, overstaying a visa is completely unavoidable, and there's no due process here to find out any extenuating circumstances.
This isn't an isolated case, this happens everyday, and the way that people are treated, most of whom NEVER EVEN OVERSTAYED A VISA, is atrocious. If you're not willing to accept that, then you don't seem to care about living in a civilized society.
Plus, last I checked Iceland was part of NATO and one of our staunchest allies. Why are we treating our best friends like this?
You speak as someone who has zero knowledge of what its like to travel into this country.
Granted, I don't know why the title of this article has 'blonde' in it. I think it's funny that you read into that somehow that this woman must have been a 'queen' and somehow must have insulted the immigration people.
The immigration system in this country is in dire need of an overhaul. Right now, it's just making the world hate us.
I'm sorry sir, this logic doesn't cut it. If someone overstays a visa and stays, that's a problem. If they overstay a visa and leave, then that's not a problem. Often time, overstaying a visa is completely unavoidable, and there's no due process here to find out any extenuating circumstances.
This isn't an isolated case, this happens everyday, and the way that people are treated, most of whom NEVER EVEN OVERSTAYED A VISA, is atrocious. If you're not willing to accept that, then you don't seem to care about living in a civilized society.
Plus, last I checked Iceland was part of NATO and one of our staunchest allies. Why are we treating our best friends like this?
You speak as someone who has zero knowledge of what its like to travel into this country.
Granted, I don't know why the title of this article has 'blonde' in it. I think it's funny that you read into that somehow that this woman must have been a 'queen' and somehow must have insulted the immigration people.
The immigration system in this country is in dire need of an overhaul. Right now, it's just making the world hate us.
Janusinsocal
Janusinsocal - you might want to read this article to get yourself up to speed a bit. [Link]
Judging from your comments, you're living in a dream world - an America and justice system that no longer exists. It would also do you well to read Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski so you understand why and how it's happening. Pretending Cheney has our best interests at heart and has 'prevented terrorist attacks' doesn't make it so - but it sure makes Fox News happy you think that.
Janusinsocal - you might want to read this article to get yourself up to speed a bit. [Link]
Judging from your comments, you're living in a dream world - an America and justice system that no longer exists. It would also do you well to read Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski so you understand why and how it's happening. Pretending Cheney has our best interests at heart and has 'prevented terrorist attacks' doesn't make it so - but it sure makes Fox News happy you think that.
Anart
Okay, I read the article. Then I threw up. What stuns me is that you would allow yourself to oppose policies that are clearly intended to thwart terrorist activities exclusively. Don't get me wrong; I'm no fan of Bush, who in my opinion is among the most ineffective modern Presidents. I also in no way condone techniques like water-boarding for gathering information. But this article makes it seem like everyday, law-abiding citizens and guests from foreign countries are regularly submitted to mistreatment by our government; that's just not true. What Bush has done is to expand executive power in new ways to combat terrorism by detaining people who are clearly involved with it. The beauty of the checks and balances inherent in the Constitution is that after he leaves, the next person can change things. And you're right: I am living in a dream world because thanks to the American justice system, the government, and the evil Cheney, I can happily go about my life, do my job, and be with my family. I'm just about as dreamy as a guy can get.
You go ahead and wallow in the misery of the terrorists; I'll just stay safe here wrapped warmly in my FoxNews induced euphoria.
Okay, I read the article. Then I threw up. What stuns me is that you would allow yourself to oppose policies that are clearly intended to thwart terrorist activities exclusively. Don't get me wrong; I'm no fan of Bush, who in my opinion is among the most ineffective modern Presidents. I also in no way condone techniques like water-boarding for gathering information. But this article makes it seem like everyday, law-abiding citizens and guests from foreign countries are regularly submitted to mistreatment by our government; that's just not true. What Bush has done is to expand executive power in new ways to combat terrorism by detaining people who are clearly involved with it. The beauty of the checks and balances inherent in the Constitution is that after he leaves, the next person can change things. And you're right: I am living in a dream world because thanks to the American justice system, the government, and the evil Cheney, I can happily go about my life, do my job, and be with my family. I'm just about as dreamy as a guy can get.
You go ahead and wallow in the misery of the terrorists; I'll just stay safe here wrapped warmly in my FoxNews induced euphoria.
Janusinsocal, you still need to ...
... read Political Ponerology. Notice that the article anart recommended details laws that target American citizens. Everything Hitler did to set up his police state was "legal," too, via the same kinds of laws -- and he ran "law on order" campaigns, no end. Such laws are not passed unless they're intended for use. If there was really a fear of "terrorism," they would have closed the borders, first thing -- so that's definitely NOT it. Your references to "news" items clearly identifies you as a victim of propaganda. For example, you made the "trying to be president for life" charge against Chavez, which was US spin of his simple proposal to eliminate term limits, which was rejected in a vote. You probably also believe the deliberate mistranslation of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- you know, that BS about "wipe Israel off the map." I'm not defending these guys, just pointing out that the spin the corporate media puts on everything is deliberately misleading, and extremely so, to encourage misinformation and to inflame attitudes like yours. Just open up a bit, recognize that all sides get bombarded by BS propaganda.
... read Political Ponerology. Notice that the article anart recommended details laws that target American citizens. Everything Hitler did to set up his police state was "legal," too, via the same kinds of laws -- and he ran "law on order" campaigns, no end. Such laws are not passed unless they're intended for use. If there was really a fear of "terrorism," they would have closed the borders, first thing -- so that's definitely NOT it. Your references to "news" items clearly identifies you as a victim of propaganda. For example, you made the "trying to be president for life" charge against Chavez, which was US spin of his simple proposal to eliminate term limits, which was rejected in a vote. You probably also believe the deliberate mistranslation of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad -- you know, that BS about "wipe Israel off the map." I'm not defending these guys, just pointing out that the spin the corporate media puts on everything is deliberately misleading, and extremely so, to encourage misinformation and to inflame attitudes like yours. Just open up a bit, recognize that all sides get bombarded by BS propaganda.
Too bad
If all you people think America is so horrible, please leave. This is the greatest country in the world. I don't believe this lady's story, and if it's true, oh well. Bad things happen sometime. Tough luck.
If all you people think America is so horrible, please leave. This is the greatest country in the world. I don't believe this lady's story, and if it's true, oh well. Bad things happen sometime. Tough luck.
Thanks
I think your statement is helping people to decide to want to leave. I wish you'd leave. Unfortunately, when they make up lists of people who get to life and who gets to disappear, I'll be on the disappear list because I tried to speak out and you'll get to join the gulag because you didn't care as your fellow man was treated like animals.
I think your statement is helping people to decide to want to leave. I wish you'd leave. Unfortunately, when they make up lists of people who get to life and who gets to disappear, I'll be on the disappear list because I tried to speak out and you'll get to join the gulag because you didn't care as your fellow man was treated like animals.
It's Bush's fault
Obviously, this must be President Bush's fault. Everything else is. People here are so loony it's unbelieveable.
Obviously, this must be President Bush's fault. Everything else is. People here are so loony it's unbelieveable.
your comments are your fault
You go and insult everyone in the rest of the world. Saying that if they have a criticism of your country they should shut up and leave. That's your fault. Bush doesn't even say things that stupid.
You go and insult everyone in the rest of the world. Saying that if they have a criticism of your country they should shut up and leave. That's your fault. Bush doesn't even say things that stupid.
Um...
"This is the greatest country in the world."
Why? Nazis believed the same thing about Germany. A lot of good it did them!
"I don't believe this lady's story"
Okay. But no one cares about what you believe. No one cares about what I believe. Believe it or not, there ARE people in this world who care about what is actually happening, rather than what they would like to believe is happening.
I do agree with you though that bad things happen sometimes. For example, you called everyone here loony, so now you can't post comments anymore!
"This is the greatest country in the world."
Why? Nazis believed the same thing about Germany. A lot of good it did them!
"I don't believe this lady's story"
Okay. But no one cares about what you believe. No one cares about what I believe. Believe it or not, there ARE people in this world who care about what is actually happening, rather than what they would like to believe is happening.
I do agree with you though that bad things happen sometimes. For example, you called everyone here loony, so now you can't post comments anymore!
Einlæglega og því miður
fröken Eva Löngun Arnardóttir , eins og óákveðinn greinir í ensku Ameríkumaður borgari ÉG er og hneykslaður á þinn meðhöndlun. ÉG er skömmustulegur af hvaða Ameríka hefur nú verða og eini von a nýr stjórn geta setja réttur sumir af the hersveit af rangur svo sem eins og the einn þú andlit. ÉG hafa the léttir af aldrei atkvæðagreiðsla fyrir this harðstjóri hver vera í the forsetaembætti af the eins og a kóróna með lítilsvirðing fyrir þess fólk og ennfremur the fólk af the veröld. Fyrir hvaða lítill það er virði , ÉG varnarræða eins og óákveðinn greinir í ensku Ameríkumaður. Fimmtíu þúsund fólk deyja hér a ár í sjálfvirkt farartæki slys , en við hæli akstur a glæpur , enn við eyðileggja okkar eiga lýðræði , og okkar samband , með the veröld fyrir the þrír þúsund hver died á September 11th, 2001. það er fyrir handan heimskur og geðveikur til trúa þessi ritgerð erlendur gestur svo sem eins og sjálfur eins og glæpamaður í allir vegur hjálpa okkur. This er ekki the land ÉG var fæddur í til og á meðan ÉG syrgja það , ÉG hafa von þessi einn dagur við geta svara á móti the hvíla af the veröld eins og a siðmenntaður lýðveldi einu sinni við hafa útrýma the glæpamaður hver leiða okkar ríkisstjórn. ÉG don't búast við þessi þú vilja alltaf koma aftur til the Sameinaður Stjórnvitringur en ÉG gera von þessi í the framtíð þú vilja koma til fyrirgefa okkur fyrir hvaða var til þú.
W. Michael Tenery III (wmichaeltenery@yahoo.com)
fröken Eva Löngun Arnardóttir , eins og óákveðinn greinir í ensku Ameríkumaður borgari ÉG er og hneykslaður á þinn meðhöndlun. ÉG er skömmustulegur af hvaða Ameríka hefur nú verða og eini von a nýr stjórn geta setja réttur sumir af the hersveit af rangur svo sem eins og the einn þú andlit. ÉG hafa the léttir af aldrei atkvæðagreiðsla fyrir this harðstjóri hver vera í the forsetaembætti af the eins og a kóróna með lítilsvirðing fyrir þess fólk og ennfremur the fólk af the veröld. Fyrir hvaða lítill það er virði , ÉG varnarræða eins og óákveðinn greinir í ensku Ameríkumaður. Fimmtíu þúsund fólk deyja hér a ár í sjálfvirkt farartæki slys , en við hæli akstur a glæpur , enn við eyðileggja okkar eiga lýðræði , og okkar samband , með the veröld fyrir the þrír þúsund hver died á September 11th, 2001. það er fyrir handan heimskur og geðveikur til trúa þessi ritgerð erlendur gestur svo sem eins og sjálfur eins og glæpamaður í allir vegur hjálpa okkur. This er ekki the land ÉG var fæddur í til og á meðan ÉG syrgja það , ÉG hafa von þessi einn dagur við geta svara á móti the hvíla af the veröld eins og a siðmenntaður lýðveldi einu sinni við hafa útrýma the glæpamaður hver leiða okkar ríkisstjórn. ÉG don't búast við þessi þú vilja alltaf koma aftur til the Sameinaður Stjórnvitringur en ÉG gera von þessi í the framtíð þú vilja koma til fyrirgefa okkur fyrir hvaða var til þú.
W. Michael Tenery III (wmichaeltenery@yahoo.com)
English Translation
Ms. Eva Ósk Arnardóttir,
as an American citizen I am appalled and shocked at your treatment. I am ashamed of what America has now become and only hope a new administration can put right some of the legion of wrongs such as the one you faced. I have the relief of never voting for this tyrant who wears the presidency of the USA like a crown with contempt for its people and moreover the people of the world. For what little it is worth, I apologize as an American. Fifty thousand people die here a year in auto accidents, but we haven't made driving a crime, yet we destroy our own democracy, and our relationship, with the world for the three thousand who died on September 11th, 2001. it is beyond stupid and insane to believe that treating foreign visitors such as yourself as criminals in any way helps us. This is not the country I was born in to and while I mourn it, I have hope that one day we can rejoin the rest of the world as a civilized republic once we have eliminated the criminals who lead our government. I don't expect that you will ever return to the United States but I do hope that in the future you will come to forgive us for what was done to you.
Sincerely and regrettably,
W. Michael Tenery III (wmichaeltenery@yahoo.com)
Ms. Eva Ósk Arnardóttir,
as an American citizen I am appalled and shocked at your treatment. I am ashamed of what America has now become and only hope a new administration can put right some of the legion of wrongs such as the one you faced. I have the relief of never voting for this tyrant who wears the presidency of the USA like a crown with contempt for its people and moreover the people of the world. For what little it is worth, I apologize as an American. Fifty thousand people die here a year in auto accidents, but we haven't made driving a crime, yet we destroy our own democracy, and our relationship, with the world for the three thousand who died on September 11th, 2001. it is beyond stupid and insane to believe that treating foreign visitors such as yourself as criminals in any way helps us. This is not the country I was born in to and while I mourn it, I have hope that one day we can rejoin the rest of the world as a civilized republic once we have eliminated the criminals who lead our government. I don't expect that you will ever return to the United States but I do hope that in the future you will come to forgive us for what was done to you.
Sincerely and regrettably,
W. Michael Tenery III (wmichaeltenery@yahoo.com)
History repeats itself
I can't help thinking that the comments by Janusinsocal and a few others are probably very similar to comments made by Germans in the 1930s when the Nazis were beginning their ostracizing of "others". It's pretty sad, but much more depressing will be listening to people like Janusinsocal whine about "not seeing it coming" after the de facto establishment of a fascist government in the US. You think it only happens to other people? Wake up!
I can't help thinking that the comments by Janusinsocal and a few others are probably very similar to comments made by Germans in the 1930s when the Nazis were beginning their ostracizing of "others". It's pretty sad, but much more depressing will be listening to people like Janusinsocal whine about "not seeing it coming" after the de facto establishment of a fascist government in the US. You think it only happens to other people? Wake up!
Not A Clue What's Coming
It is these "true Patriots" that never see it coming.
They say that all you have to do is "follow the rules" and you'll be okay. What they are incapable of seeing is that in a fascist state, like we have here in the U.S., the rules change whenever those in control deem it necessary to change them. Like from minute to minute. And it is those who are so sure that they are "in the know" of their government and are such goody two-shoes that don't have a clue what is coming and get blindsided when they, all of a sudden, realize that the good old democratic U.S. of A. is not so democratic after all. That you can be thrown in prison just because someone else doesn't like the way you look or act, or the way you look at them.
And the police have become unfeeling, unthinking robots. As have, as we have all seen, a lot of people living here in Hitler-land.
You all don't have a clue what is coming. I'm looking forward to the realization hitting you between the eyes when it finally dawns on you just how little you understand about the fascist USA and you are locked up, tortured and forgotten, just like what is being done now to people who are innocent of any crimes or wrong-doing other than what has been made up by psychopathic agents.
It is these "true Patriots" that never see it coming.
They say that all you have to do is "follow the rules" and you'll be okay. What they are incapable of seeing is that in a fascist state, like we have here in the U.S., the rules change whenever those in control deem it necessary to change them. Like from minute to minute. And it is those who are so sure that they are "in the know" of their government and are such goody two-shoes that don't have a clue what is coming and get blindsided when they, all of a sudden, realize that the good old democratic U.S. of A. is not so democratic after all. That you can be thrown in prison just because someone else doesn't like the way you look or act, or the way you look at them.
And the police have become unfeeling, unthinking robots. As have, as we have all seen, a lot of people living here in Hitler-land.
You all don't have a clue what is coming. I'm looking forward to the realization hitting you between the eyes when it finally dawns on you just how little you understand about the fascist USA and you are locked up, tortured and forgotten, just like what is being done now to people who are innocent of any crimes or wrong-doing other than what has been made up by psychopathic agents.
so true...
There is evidence for this also that is presented in a couple of articles I wrote some time back. For example, there is this one [Link]
which includes excerpts from Sebastian Haffner's book "Defying Hitler". It is well worth reading to gain a deeper understanding of people like Janusinsocal.
Another article onsite that deals with the "authoritarian" personality is this one: [Link]
Here the focus is on the "authoritarian" personality.
Psychologist Andzrej Lobaczewski describes the type that really "believes" in "authority" as the schizoidal psychopath. He writes:
"We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”." [...]
"Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful, but they pay little attention to the feelings of others, tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easy become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature." [...]
The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull pallor of emotions and a feeling for the psychological realities of this essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be attributed to the incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum, which is working as though on sand. Low emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity. Because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people.
I think that's a pretty good fit here.
There is evidence for this also that is presented in a couple of articles I wrote some time back. For example, there is this one [Link]
which includes excerpts from Sebastian Haffner's book "Defying Hitler". It is well worth reading to gain a deeper understanding of people like Janusinsocal.
Another article onsite that deals with the "authoritarian" personality is this one: [Link]
Here the focus is on the "authoritarian" personality.
Psychologist Andzrej Lobaczewski describes the type that really "believes" in "authority" as the schizoidal psychopath. He writes:
"We frequently find expressions of their characteristic attitudes in their statements and writings: “Human nature is so bad that order in human society can only be maintained by a strong power created by highly qualified individuals in the name of some higher idea.” Let us call this typical expression the “schizoid declaration”." [...]
"Carriers of this anomaly are hypersensitive and distrustful, but they pay little attention to the feelings of others, tend to assume extreme positions, and are eager to retaliate for minor offenses. Sometimes they are eccentric and odd. Their poor sense of psychological situation and reality leads them to superimpose erroneous, pejorative interpretations upon other people’s intentions. They easy become involved in activities which are ostensibly moral, but which actually inflict damage upon themselves and others. Their impoverished psychological worldview makes them typically pessimistic regarding human nature." [...]
The common factor in the varieties of this anomaly is a dull pallor of emotions and a feeling for the psychological realities of this essential factor in basic intelligence. This can be attributed to the incomplete quality of the instinctive substratum, which is working as though on sand. Low emotional pressure enables them to develop proper speculative reasoning, which is useful in non-humanistic spheres of activity. Because of their one-sidedness, they tend to consider themselves intellectually superior to “ordinary” people.
I think that's a pretty good fit here.
The Smell Test
This just doesn't pass the smell test for me. Why do we automatically think every random story we hear on the Internet is true? I'll wait to hear both sides. If it turns out to be true, well, I'm sure the folks involved are in the federal employee's Union and probably can't be fired anyway.
Who the hell goes on vacation to New York anyway? :-)
This just doesn't pass the smell test for me. Why do we automatically think every random story we hear on the Internet is true? I'll wait to hear both sides. If it turns out to be true, well, I'm sure the folks involved are in the federal employee's Union and probably can't be fired anyway.
Who the hell goes on vacation to New York anyway? :-)
No one is above the law
I am sorry that you had to go through this ordeal and I am convinced that this was a horrific experience. However, you had broken the law before and hence the actions were taken and you were deported. This happens to people from third world nations all the time. They don't complain and you hardly hear about their cases. However, the recent cases from European/western tourists are being publicized now more than ever; before the immigration clamp down, they perhaps used to be given a free pass. As harsh as it sounds but no one is above the law. It has nothing to do with US being a police state or anything. US still welcomes the highest number or immigrants than any other nation in the world. This is about law-enforcement and fairness. Again, sorry about your experience.
I am sorry that you had to go through this ordeal and I am convinced that this was a horrific experience. However, you had broken the law before and hence the actions were taken and you were deported. This happens to people from third world nations all the time. They don't complain and you hardly hear about their cases. However, the recent cases from European/western tourists are being publicized now more than ever; before the immigration clamp down, they perhaps used to be given a free pass. As harsh as it sounds but no one is above the law. It has nothing to do with US being a police state or anything. US still welcomes the highest number or immigrants than any other nation in the world. This is about law-enforcement and fairness. Again, sorry about your experience.
No One Is Above The Law (II)
I wanted to add some additional points. Is the person concerned complaining about a) getting deported, and/or b) or the treatment from the law enforcement officers?
People from western European nations/developed nations DO NOT need a visa to enter the US. They have the privilege of visa waiver where they can enter the US only with a valid passport. The immigration officer at the port of entry determines the duration of stay. There's no standing in line at a US embassy, no intense interviewing by consular officers, no proving that they will return back to their home countries, no making appointments for interview etc. for people from developed nations to enter the US for visiting as tourists. Then, we have these cases like this one where despite all these privileges, they'll break the law and then complain about getting caught and sent back. Just because someone is blonde and from Iceland doesn't grant them immunity from the law. What kind of an attitude of entitlement is this?
I wanted to add some additional points. Is the person concerned complaining about a) getting deported, and/or b) or the treatment from the law enforcement officers?
People from western European nations/developed nations DO NOT need a visa to enter the US. They have the privilege of visa waiver where they can enter the US only with a valid passport. The immigration officer at the port of entry determines the duration of stay. There's no standing in line at a US embassy, no intense interviewing by consular officers, no proving that they will return back to their home countries, no making appointments for interview etc. for people from developed nations to enter the US for visiting as tourists. Then, we have these cases like this one where despite all these privileges, they'll break the law and then complain about getting caught and sent back. Just because someone is blonde and from Iceland doesn't grant them immunity from the law. What kind of an attitude of entitlement is this?
Wow, there are so many people...
... above the law I wouldn't know where to begin. We can start with the president of the US, who sent hired killers, unasked, to two foreign countries and started wrecking the places and killing people. Apparently, he felt this was justified because he was afraid or something. In fact, he did this without getting a declaration of war from Congress, against the Constitution, allegedly the supreme law of the land.
The president can also decide, of his own accord, who is above the law. There was this guy Scooter Libby...
... above the law I wouldn't know where to begin. We can start with the president of the US, who sent hired killers, unasked, to two foreign countries and started wrecking the places and killing people. Apparently, he felt this was justified because he was afraid or something. In fact, he did this without getting a declaration of war from Congress, against the Constitution, allegedly the supreme law of the land.
The president can also decide, of his own accord, who is above the law. There was this guy Scooter Libby...
The Other Two Americas
Janus - For one, you, Stan and the other trollish types here haven't a clue what happens in immigration lines and Homeland Security offices at America's airports. This happens all the time, mostly to Asians and other dark skinned entrants. One might fairly give kudos to the JFK Homeland Security crew for, in this instance, treating this white, blonde, first class passenger the same way they'd treat any voiceless brown-skinned entrant who'd overstayed his previous visa: like garbage to be thrown away.
It's amazing to me the way the most well-meaning policies and procedures result in the basest cruelty. As someone observed upthread, there were plausible, well-founded reasons for every miserable stop on Eva's abortive trip to the USA. But each one resulted in further, completely undeserved humiliation and suffering for Eva. I am in the business. I have dealt with the collateral damage from these policies and procedures. Kudos to the rich white girl for having the nerve to complain - most of her fellow victims never do.
The truth is, Homeland Security does not truly exist to protect America - if it ever did. It's subsidiary services exist to protect and perpetuate a state apparatus, serve at the will and pleasure of their political superiors and have been deliberately populated with paranoid whackjobs like Janus who haven't turned a page on their calendar since September 11, 2001. They do not serve America. Oh, sure - the deluded ones at the bottom really do think we're just another 9-11 away from mandatory burkas and beards. That's why Eva had to suffer - so kooks very much like Janus could should the terribly important burden of "protecting America."
I want my damned country back. Janus, if you want to feel safe and secure and cuddled and protected, go live in Putin's Russia, and get yourself comfortable with their security apparatus. At least they're not trying to pretend they're something they're not.
Janus - For one, you, Stan and the other trollish types here haven't a clue what happens in immigration lines and Homeland Security offices at America's airports. This happens all the time, mostly to Asians and other dark skinned entrants. One might fairly give kudos to the JFK Homeland Security crew for, in this instance, treating this white, blonde, first class passenger the same way they'd treat any voiceless brown-skinned entrant who'd overstayed his previous visa: like garbage to be thrown away.
It's amazing to me the way the most well-meaning policies and procedures result in the basest cruelty. As someone observed upthread, there were plausible, well-founded reasons for every miserable stop on Eva's abortive trip to the USA. But each one resulted in further, completely undeserved humiliation and suffering for Eva. I am in the business. I have dealt with the collateral damage from these policies and procedures. Kudos to the rich white girl for having the nerve to complain - most of her fellow victims never do.
The truth is, Homeland Security does not truly exist to protect America - if it ever did. It's subsidiary services exist to protect and perpetuate a state apparatus, serve at the will and pleasure of their political superiors and have been deliberately populated with paranoid whackjobs like Janus who haven't turned a page on their calendar since September 11, 2001. They do not serve America. Oh, sure - the deluded ones at the bottom really do think we're just another 9-11 away from mandatory burkas and beards. That's why Eva had to suffer - so kooks very much like Janus could should the terribly important burden of "protecting America."
I want my damned country back. Janus, if you want to feel safe and secure and cuddled and protected, go live in Putin's Russia, and get yourself comfortable with their security apparatus. At least they're not trying to pretend they're something they're not.
So sad...
For Jenus (and the other like-minded): What your "goverment" wants is GLOBAL CONTROL. And before that they must have total control of YOU, the citizens of USA. You are being mind-controlled little by little into buying this terror senario among many other "televised" distractions. You are the kind of person that feeds the statistics of the "happy citizens", which in return further enhance your illusion of freedom. You have the choice to live in your reality bubble for a while. But the truth will hit you hard in the face soon enough. A new "law" will be voted some of these late nights by a "majority" of 10-20 persons in a dark room, that will include you too in the List. Rest assured. But then, i guess prison cells are nice places to get yourself together and think things over. I mean after the interrogation is over of course... Best wishes.
For Jenus (and the other like-minded): What your "goverment" wants is GLOBAL CONTROL. And before that they must have total control of YOU, the citizens of USA. You are being mind-controlled little by little into buying this terror senario among many other "televised" distractions. You are the kind of person that feeds the statistics of the "happy citizens", which in return further enhance your illusion of freedom. You have the choice to live in your reality bubble for a while. But the truth will hit you hard in the face soon enough. A new "law" will be voted some of these late nights by a "majority" of 10-20 persons in a dark room, that will include you too in the List. Rest assured. But then, i guess prison cells are nice places to get yourself together and think things over. I mean after the interrogation is over of course... Best wishes.
Nothing so bad that it doesn't bring something good...
As so many Icelanders, I’ve always loved United States of America, the people, the land and the principles the nation has been funded on, ever since I first visited the country when I was 6. Now in my 40’s I’ve regularly traveled to the States, both on business and pleasure, and always had a fine experience and enjoyed great hospitality of American people. Therefore it’s a huge disappointment how things have evolved during the last years, and how the public opinion has turned against this great nation, mainly due to inept leadership.
It is though encouraging for me to read what wast majority of Americans who have commented here, apologizing for their nation and/or declared their disgrace for the abuse Ms. Erla had to endure from their officials at JFK. This confirms to me my opinion that a huge majority of the American people condemn the conduct of their government, as well as it keeps live in my hope that America will turn back to normal in the near future.
I want to thank Erla for making her story public, by that she has served all freedom loving people, whether American, Icelandic or of other nations. It has disseminated widely over the Internet, and has already forced the DHS to respond to their conduct, surprisingly to many.
According to news yesterday in Iceland, the Foreign Ministry received a letter from the DHS, signed by the Deputy Secretary Paul A. Schneider, where they regret the treatment Erla got, admit it was out of proportion, and that they will review processes in the light of this incident. We can also thank Mrs. Ingibjörg Sólrún Gísladóttir, Foreign Minister of Iceland, and the U.S. Ambassador in Iceland, Mrs. Carol van Voorst, a great representative for USA. Hopefully these three women have started something which will improve the situation for all of us.
As so many Icelanders, I’ve always loved United States of America, the people, the land and the principles the nation has been funded on, ever since I first visited the country when I was 6. Now in my 40’s I’ve regularly traveled to the States, both on business and pleasure, and always had a fine experience and enjoyed great hospitality of American people. Therefore it’s a huge disappointment how things have evolved during the last years, and how the public opinion has turned against this great nation, mainly due to inept leadership.
It is though encouraging for me to read what wast majority of Americans who have commented here, apologizing for their nation and/or declared their disgrace for the abuse Ms. Erla had to endure from their officials at JFK. This confirms to me my opinion that a huge majority of the American people condemn the conduct of their government, as well as it keeps live in my hope that America will turn back to normal in the near future.
I want to thank Erla for making her story public, by that she has served all freedom loving people, whether American, Icelandic or of other nations. It has disseminated widely over the Internet, and has already forced the DHS to respond to their conduct, surprisingly to many.
According to news yesterday in Iceland, the Foreign Ministry received a letter from the DHS, signed by the Deputy Secretary Paul A. Schneider, where they regret the treatment Erla got, admit it was out of proportion, and that they will review processes in the light of this incident. We can also thank Mrs. Ingibjörg Sólrún Gísladóttir, Foreign Minister of Iceland, and the U.S. Ambassador in Iceland, Mrs. Carol van Voorst, a great representative for USA. Hopefully these three women have started something which will improve the situation for all of us.
In addition to the above
It was also mentioned in the news, that several American laywers have contacted Erla encouraging her and offered their help to sue the US government. Hopefully that will happen, since it would likely reinforce the movement to reesatblish America as the “Land of the free, and home of the brave”.
PS: Lively discussion on this can be found where the original posting in English is hosted -> [Link]
It was also mentioned in the news, that several American laywers have contacted Erla encouraging her and offered their help to sue the US government. Hopefully that will happen, since it would likely reinforce the movement to reesatblish America as the “Land of the free, and home of the brave”.
PS: Lively discussion on this can be found where the original posting in English is hosted -> [Link]
The point is...
"According to news yesterday in Iceland, the Foreign Ministry received a letter from the DHS, signed by the Deputy Secretary Paul A. Schneider, where they regret the treatment Erla got, admit it was out of proportion, and that they will review processes in the light of this incident."
That is the point. The treatment this woman received was "OUT OF PROPORTION" to the situation.
There are many other situations in the U.S. where authorities are acting all out of proportion to the situation. It is as though people in the U.S. have completely lost their common sense and have descended into some kind of nightmarish black and white world of extremes and hysteria.
This hysteria is a consequence of 1) pathological material being assimilated by society by way of the mainstream media all through their formative years 2) transmarginal inhibition [Link]
- in other words, planned and deliberate. It is intended to convert people who would otherwise be normal and have correct reasoning to the "authoritarian" world view of fascism.
And, as we can see from some of the comments above, it is working.
"According to news yesterday in Iceland, the Foreign Ministry received a letter from the DHS, signed by the Deputy Secretary Paul A. Schneider, where they regret the treatment Erla got, admit it was out of proportion, and that they will review processes in the light of this incident."
That is the point. The treatment this woman received was "OUT OF PROPORTION" to the situation.
There are many other situations in the U.S. where authorities are acting all out of proportion to the situation. It is as though people in the U.S. have completely lost their common sense and have descended into some kind of nightmarish black and white world of extremes and hysteria.
This hysteria is a consequence of 1) pathological material being assimilated by society by way of the mainstream media all through their formative years 2) transmarginal inhibition [Link]
- in other words, planned and deliberate. It is intended to convert people who would otherwise be normal and have correct reasoning to the "authoritarian" world view of fascism.
And, as we can see from some of the comments above, it is working.
Our loss of freedom
As an American, I've witnessed a slow, gradual loss of liberty in our country. The president and his people, most especially Cheney, believe that we are at war and the president should have almost unlimited power. The Congress has been weak and ineffective in challenging this radical assumption. The Patriot Act and other laws and regulations have gradually chipped away at our Constitutional rights. Jose Padilla, a U.S. citizen, has been imprisoned in the most appalling manner without his rights. And the use of torture (waterboarding, etc.) has been a national disgrace. Our phones are being tapped and our electronic communications monitored without adequate oversight. In short, under Bush we've moved toward fascism. We're a long way from being a police state, but closer than we've ever been before. Thank God, Bush will be gone in just 13 months. Whoever replaces him must repudiate many of his policies, or else the US will cease being a beacon of freedom in the world.
As an American, I've witnessed a slow, gradual loss of liberty in our country. The president and his people, most especially Cheney, believe that we are at war and the president should have almost unlimited power. The Congress has been weak and ineffective in challenging this radical assumption. The Patriot Act and other laws and regulations have gradually chipped away at our Constitutional rights. Jose Padilla, a U.S. citizen, has been imprisoned in the most appalling manner without his rights. And the use of torture (waterboarding, etc.) has been a national disgrace. Our phones are being tapped and our electronic communications monitored without adequate oversight. In short, under Bush we've moved toward fascism. We're a long way from being a police state, but closer than we've ever been before. Thank God, Bush will be gone in just 13 months. Whoever replaces him must repudiate many of his policies, or else the US will cease being a beacon of freedom in the world.
Possitive wishfull thinking?
I am glad to see some healthy reactions. But Bush is just a high ranking puppet in the game. Period. Another Skull and Bones "classmate" will replace him. Do you really think that the Powers To Be behind him, who have spent so much time (decades) and resources ($Trillions) to get the situation up to here will just say: "Oh, we lost the damn elections... We give up. Cancel everything..."? I don't believe so! Instead, you are just a minor staged event away from the Constitution becoming old news. Have you been following the hair raising legislations that were approved this summer in the US? 13 months is an awful lot of time... I fear it will take more than a vote to get rid of this manipulation. IF they allow "elections" to happen, it is only because the result is rigged. Too much is at stake for the "average Jo" to have control over who runs USA...
I am glad to see some healthy reactions. But Bush is just a high ranking puppet in the game. Period. Another Skull and Bones "classmate" will replace him. Do you really think that the Powers To Be behind him, who have spent so much time (decades) and resources ($Trillions) to get the situation up to here will just say: "Oh, we lost the damn elections... We give up. Cancel everything..."? I don't believe so! Instead, you are just a minor staged event away from the Constitution becoming old news. Have you been following the hair raising legislations that were approved this summer in the US? 13 months is an awful lot of time... I fear it will take more than a vote to get rid of this manipulation. IF they allow "elections" to happen, it is only because the result is rigged. Too much is at stake for the "average Jo" to have control over who runs USA...
We used to have a constitution
Now that we have decided that the constitution in too inconvenient or precious to apply to the foreign-born (because of their inherent inferiority to the US-born), we think nothing of trampling on the most basic human rights, such as habeas corpus. It won't be long before we apply that same thinking to those with whom we disagree politically, or who have different racial characteristics. And that's how fascism, which is pretty advanced in the U.S. already, advances itself even further. If this doesn't disgust you, you've already lost your soul.
Now that we have decided that the constitution in too inconvenient or precious to apply to the foreign-born (because of their inherent inferiority to the US-born), we think nothing of trampling on the most basic human rights, such as habeas corpus. It won't be long before we apply that same thinking to those with whom we disagree politically, or who have different racial characteristics. And that's how fascism, which is pretty advanced in the U.S. already, advances itself even further. If this doesn't disgust you, you've already lost your soul.
And This Surprises Anyone Because ... ?
Although a US citizen I live in Canada by choice because, since Cheney began instructing the administration to shred the Bill of Rights, ignore laws passed by Congress and disregard treaties, this treatment has been accorded to foreigners and Americans citizens and residents alike.
The brutality facing people entering or living in the US may finally get some attention because this time it happened to an attractive blonde woman from Iceland -- the cable news networks love stories about attractive white women, especially blondes. When it happens everyday to people with darker skin tones who speak odd languages, it is overlooked and ignored.
When will Americans finally wake up to the reality that they have lived in a fiction of a democracy for seven-plus years?
To the poor, hapless woman who was brutalised by immigration officers, I can only add my sincere apology.
Although a US citizen I live in Canada by choice because, since Cheney began instructing the administration to shred the Bill of Rights, ignore laws passed by Congress and disregard treaties, this treatment has been accorded to foreigners and Americans citizens and residents alike.
The brutality facing people entering or living in the US may finally get some attention because this time it happened to an attractive blonde woman from Iceland -- the cable news networks love stories about attractive white women, especially blondes. When it happens everyday to people with darker skin tones who speak odd languages, it is overlooked and ignored.
When will Americans finally wake up to the reality that they have lived in a fiction of a democracy for seven-plus years?
To the poor, hapless woman who was brutalised by immigration officers, I can only add my sincere apology.
This is Not a Free Country Any More
If she actually overstayed her visa then I could expect some consequence. At the *very* most to not be re-admitted.
But this punishment, without a speck of due process (was there a judge involved? Not that I could see) was way, way, way over the top. It was tantamount to torture.
This is not a free country any more, but more like Nazi Germany or the USSR. Very sad.
The saddest part is the lack of protest. We must start by electing Ron Paul. That is a beginning only. Thank goodness for the internet. Stories like this are very common but would never see the light of day were it not for sites like SOTT, lewrockwell.com and freedomsphoenix.
I am anti-Bush Alice, see my blog at [Link]
If she actually overstayed her visa then I could expect some consequence. At the *very* most to not be re-admitted.
But this punishment, without a speck of due process (was there a judge involved? Not that I could see) was way, way, way over the top. It was tantamount to torture.
This is not a free country any more, but more like Nazi Germany or the USSR. Very sad.
The saddest part is the lack of protest. We must start by electing Ron Paul. That is a beginning only. Thank goodness for the internet. Stories like this are very common but would never see the light of day were it not for sites like SOTT, lewrockwell.com and freedomsphoenix.
I am anti-Bush Alice, see my blog at [Link]
Spotty story
There's something that she's not telling us to draw sympathy from her story. First of all she should have not overstayed her visa, despite her success that she made another successful trip to NY. Second, Homeland has been tightening things up since the last quarter. I'm not making excuses for Homeland, it was terrible what happened to her, but that's the way it is and if you don't want to come to the USA, then no one is twisting her arm.
She should seriously get over it. Otherwise, don't come anymore. Period.
There's something that she's not telling us to draw sympathy from her story. First of all she should have not overstayed her visa, despite her success that she made another successful trip to NY. Second, Homeland has been tightening things up since the last quarter. I'm not making excuses for Homeland, it was terrible what happened to her, but that's the way it is and if you don't want to come to the USA, then no one is twisting her arm.
She should seriously get over it. Otherwise, don't come anymore. Period.
A troll?
Get over it? I hope you're joking. Or are you just a troll? If not, I hope someday that you have a full-body cavity search done by a government goon.
Get over it? I hope you're joking. Or are you just a troll? If not, I hope someday that you have a full-body cavity search done by a government goon.
I am so sorry
I am so sorry, as an American I am ashamed to see what our country has become and where it is going, and I am also troubled by the posts of other Americans that see the police state that is forming is a good thing.
Praying for sanity to return to my country
I am so sorry, as an American I am ashamed to see what our country has become and where it is going, and I am also troubled by the posts of other Americans that see the police state that is forming is a good thing.
Praying for sanity to return to my country
Look At What We Have Allowed!!!
We as Americans should be ashamed of ourselves, WE let this scourge on our Nation come about! With our Apathy at the Polls, and our "me first" mentality. I envy that Woman's ability to Leave our country, to go back Home where sanity still reigns. As for us, we are "Home." Where we have to walk the thin ice, and take care not to draw attention to ourselves, lest we get put on a "list." All the bitching and moaning in the world will not change it. What will is People getting off their Ass and voting. Vote for Ron Paul, he will abolish the TSA and Homeland Security. An organization taken right out of Nazi Germany. Be a REAL PATRIOT, Defend the Constitution, not a corrupt government! Peace
We as Americans should be ashamed of ourselves, WE let this scourge on our Nation come about! With our Apathy at the Polls, and our "me first" mentality. I envy that Woman's ability to Leave our country, to go back Home where sanity still reigns. As for us, we are "Home." Where we have to walk the thin ice, and take care not to draw attention to ourselves, lest we get put on a "list." All the bitching and moaning in the world will not change it. What will is People getting off their Ass and voting. Vote for Ron Paul, he will abolish the TSA and Homeland Security. An organization taken right out of Nazi Germany. Be a REAL PATRIOT, Defend the Constitution, not a corrupt government! Peace
If voting would accomplish anything...
It would be illegal.
The idea that voting will undo the mess we (the US) finds itself in is to ignore the obvious, that voting is what got you into this mess. It was not those who did not vote, but rather those who did that elected generation, after generation into maintaining and expanding the only role government serves: theft.
Voting supplies exactly what those who run the government need, the pretext that their armed robbery is supported by the majority. What you do not like your labor being looted? Well you voted did not you? Well then, if you do not like the results you are a sore loser. Or perhaps your politicians won. Congratulations, how are you liking the results?
Lastly, this assumes the votes are actually counted. This is delusional when there is ample evidence to suggest they are not. What your masters want is for you to show up at the polls. The last thing they want is the unpredictability of actual vote counts.
Support Ron Paul's ideas. They are gathering the remnant. As for the election...well, enjoy the show. The R3VOLution starts between your ears, where it ends up after that is truly up to you but it won't be at the ballot box.
It would be illegal.
The idea that voting will undo the mess we (the US) finds itself in is to ignore the obvious, that voting is what got you into this mess. It was not those who did not vote, but rather those who did that elected generation, after generation into maintaining and expanding the only role government serves: theft.
Voting supplies exactly what those who run the government need, the pretext that their armed robbery is supported by the majority. What you do not like your labor being looted? Well you voted did not you? Well then, if you do not like the results you are a sore loser. Or perhaps your politicians won. Congratulations, how are you liking the results?
Lastly, this assumes the votes are actually counted. This is delusional when there is ample evidence to suggest they are not. What your masters want is for you to show up at the polls. The last thing they want is the unpredictability of actual vote counts.
Support Ron Paul's ideas. They are gathering the remnant. As for the election...well, enjoy the show. The R3VOLution starts between your ears, where it ends up after that is truly up to you but it won't be at the ballot box.
Do something about it...
Clarence Darrow, a famous American lawyer once said:
“As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man (or woman) objected and no man (or woman) rebelled, those wrongs would last forever.”
These words are indeed very appropriate in the context of this affair.
Clarence Darrow, a famous American lawyer once said:
“As long as the world shall last there will be wrongs, and if no man (or woman) objected and no man (or woman) rebelled, those wrongs would last forever.”
These words are indeed very appropriate in the context of this affair.
Reality check...
On one hand this is indeed a prime and deplorable example of the result of unfettered gov't power. A subsidiary example is EU ministers recently ramming through the EU constitution despite the fact that Europeans overwhelmingly reject it. But that's been the condition of Europe for centuries: unrepresentative aristocratic rule, in fact or by proxy.
As an American living abroad I find this sort of treatment deplorable. However, it's the natural result of immigration authorities run amok. I've experienced benign immigration harassment in both Canada and Britain, where I've lived for long periods, despite the fact that I'm an affluent white, English-speaking male and have abided by immigration laws.
On the other hand, of course, there's the indisputable fact that this European woman overstayed a previous residential visa despite the fact that she quite clearly was aware that she was breaking the law. (And despite the fact that she is privileged to be part of a group that has basic U.S. tourist visa provisions waived by virtue of her Icelandic citizenship.)
I would never think of breaking visa laws in Canada and Britain, where I've held work visas, visitor visas and permanent residence. And if I did violate my visa provisions these nations would be completely justified in deporting me. I would not for a moment believe I was entitled to gentle treatment.
As an American citizen I'm sorry for the substance of the treatment she received. And as an American I'm glad she was finally held to account for her nonchalance about overstaying her legal welcome a decade ago.
The fact that so many readers here are spewing invective against the US is further demonstration of how unhinged the rest of the world truly is these days. Especially, because most comments seem to originate in a Europe that until only 60 years ago was serially embroiled in state-sponsored killing, raping and pillaging.
Meanwhile, America continues to welcome and integrate immigrants from around the world, as it has for three centuries, with minimal social upheaval.
I don't have the right to abuse your immigration laws. Don't abuse ours, especially when we have a history of welcoming the very people your inbred and despotic rulers have sought to exterminate and who have sacrificed enormously to emigrate to America because it is affords more liberty and opportunity than any other nation in human history.
On one hand this is indeed a prime and deplorable example of the result of unfettered gov't power. A subsidiary example is EU ministers recently ramming through the EU constitution despite the fact that Europeans overwhelmingly reject it. But that's been the condition of Europe for centuries: unrepresentative aristocratic rule, in fact or by proxy.
As an American living abroad I find this sort of treatment deplorable. However, it's the natural result of immigration authorities run amok. I've experienced benign immigration harassment in both Canada and Britain, where I've lived for long periods, despite the fact that I'm an affluent white, English-speaking male and have abided by immigration laws.
On the other hand, of course, there's the indisputable fact that this European woman overstayed a previous residential visa despite the fact that she quite clearly was aware that she was breaking the law. (And despite the fact that she is privileged to be part of a group that has basic U.S. tourist visa provisions waived by virtue of her Icelandic citizenship.)
I would never think of breaking visa laws in Canada and Britain, where I've held work visas, visitor visas and permanent residence. And if I did violate my visa provisions these nations would be completely justified in deporting me. I would not for a moment believe I was entitled to gentle treatment.
As an American citizen I'm sorry for the substance of the treatment she received. And as an American I'm glad she was finally held to account for her nonchalance about overstaying her legal welcome a decade ago.
The fact that so many readers here are spewing invective against the US is further demonstration of how unhinged the rest of the world truly is these days. Especially, because most comments seem to originate in a Europe that until only 60 years ago was serially embroiled in state-sponsored killing, raping and pillaging.
Meanwhile, America continues to welcome and integrate immigrants from around the world, as it has for three centuries, with minimal social upheaval.
I don't have the right to abuse your immigration laws. Don't abuse ours, especially when we have a history of welcoming the very people your inbred and despotic rulers have sought to exterminate and who have sacrificed enormously to emigrate to America because it is affords more liberty and opportunity than any other nation in human history.
What reality do you live in?
As we have repeated, what we are upset about is the reaction that was so out of proportion to her 'crime. According to the law, yes, the US was 'completely justified' in deporting her. Was it also justifiable to put her in chains, to humiliate her, to keep her in jail, to prevent her from calling family or the Icelandic Embassy?
Look at what is really happening in the US before saying we are unhinged. It is the US that has become completely unhinged. "Inbred and despotic rulers"? Doesn't that refer now to the small elite in the US that is in power?
As to your remark about what occurred in Europe, maybe you should try and understand the hysteroidal cycle and how those events are now being played out in the US.
Behind your reasoned tone lies the same blinkered view of reality of the Americans that continue to believe their is a 'terrorist' threat to the US that comes from a few Islamic terrorists. The real threat of terror comes from the US government itself.
As we have repeated, what we are upset about is the reaction that was so out of proportion to her 'crime. According to the law, yes, the US was 'completely justified' in deporting her. Was it also justifiable to put her in chains, to humiliate her, to keep her in jail, to prevent her from calling family or the Icelandic Embassy?
Look at what is really happening in the US before saying we are unhinged. It is the US that has become completely unhinged. "Inbred and despotic rulers"? Doesn't that refer now to the small elite in the US that is in power?
As to your remark about what occurred in Europe, maybe you should try and understand the hysteroidal cycle and how those events are now being played out in the US.
Behind your reasoned tone lies the same blinkered view of reality of the Americans that continue to believe their is a 'terrorist' threat to the US that comes from a few Islamic terrorists. The real threat of terror comes from the US government itself.
I have to agree with Henry
I am a Canadian who works in the US. Almost without exception, every person in INS/Homeland Security that I have dealt with has been robotic and totally without any semblance of human empathy. Like “Canadian observer” I am familiar with the UK, Canada and the United States. Americans are the worst in this regard hands down. You will certainly get Canadian/British officials who act like little Hitlers. What you won't get is anyone who will defend them.
“Observer” is glad that the Icelandic master criminal is being “held to account” - for a trivial offense like this? I wonder how he feels about scofflaws who jaywalked during the Eisenhower administration?
Why is the US like this? Personally, I think it is the effect of 200 years of multiculturalism (starting with slavery...compulsory multiculturalism). Europe, including Britain, and Canada are headed in the same direction. Recent research indicates that diverse populations are less cohesive and people display less trust and empathy towards one another. See [Link]
Fundamentally, I think that most of the things that liberals hate about the United States are the result, not of capitalism or democracy, but of multiculturalism. The irony, of course, is that multiculturalism as a meme is one of those things that goes totally unquestioned by liberals. Europe: This is your future!
I am a Canadian who works in the US. Almost without exception, every person in INS/Homeland Security that I have dealt with has been robotic and totally without any semblance of human empathy. Like “Canadian observer” I am familiar with the UK, Canada and the United States. Americans are the worst in this regard hands down. You will certainly get Canadian/British officials who act like little Hitlers. What you won't get is anyone who will defend them.
“Observer” is glad that the Icelandic master criminal is being “held to account” - for a trivial offense like this? I wonder how he feels about scofflaws who jaywalked during the Eisenhower administration?
Why is the US like this? Personally, I think it is the effect of 200 years of multiculturalism (starting with slavery...compulsory multiculturalism). Europe, including Britain, and Canada are headed in the same direction. Recent research indicates that diverse populations are less cohesive and people display less trust and empathy towards one another. See [Link]
Fundamentally, I think that most of the things that liberals hate about the United States are the result, not of capitalism or democracy, but of multiculturalism. The irony, of course, is that multiculturalism as a meme is one of those things that goes totally unquestioned by liberals. Europe: This is your future!
Reality Check
Ok
The problem I have with this whole situation is that this was not the first and not the second time she returned to the states since braking the law. She had actually returned several times without ever being stopped. Which again must raise a question on the jobquality provided by the protectors of your border.
Also if other nations behaved similarily then we would probably start a war with the US each time one of your Marines got drunk and insulted or bashed the hell out of one of our civilians.
And in retrospect.
When looking at all the illegal immigrants that have crossed the south border and are working in the US the persons responsible for this incident should get a swift kick where it hurts. And those dictating procedures should get a double portions.
Ok
The problem I have with this whole situation is that this was not the first and not the second time she returned to the states since braking the law. She had actually returned several times without ever being stopped. Which again must raise a question on the jobquality provided by the protectors of your border.
Also if other nations behaved similarily then we would probably start a war with the US each time one of your Marines got drunk and insulted or bashed the hell out of one of our civilians.
And in retrospect.
When looking at all the illegal immigrants that have crossed the south border and are working in the US the persons responsible for this incident should get a swift kick where it hurts. And those dictating procedures should get a double portions.
Abuse?
In what alternative universe is a three week overstay on a tourist visa *12* years ago "abuse?"
I wasn't aware that the Icelandic "rulers" had a history of inbrededness. Please enlighten, if you can.
Is there any doubt that this woman posed no criminal threat? That her treatment was not proportional to her crime? And that, in treating visitors to our country this way, we cease being the beacon we light to portray ourselves as?
Shameful. And some of the responses here are even more so. What ever happened to the Right?
In what alternative universe is a three week overstay on a tourist visa *12* years ago "abuse?"
I wasn't aware that the Icelandic "rulers" had a history of inbrededness. Please enlighten, if you can.
Is there any doubt that this woman posed no criminal threat? That her treatment was not proportional to her crime? And that, in treating visitors to our country this way, we cease being the beacon we light to portray ourselves as?
Shameful. And some of the responses here are even more so. What ever happened to the Right?
Don't blame Bush
The treatment of this Icelandic visitor to the US is shameful and the fact that anyone (like Janusinsocal) would choose to defend it is infuriating. We all know people who cannot take the slightest criticism, and sadly, there are some Americans who cannot take any criticism of their country either. I'm sure there are such "patriots" in other countries too.
However, I don't believe this insanity is deliberate on the part of the Bush administration. They have been hugely incompetent, no doubt, but I see this episode as being more symptomatic of a) the effect of bureaucracy on the people who get caught up in enforcing its rules and regulations (Kafka knew all about this) and b) the peculiarly American approach to crime and punishment, which seems to be completely devoid of common sense. Bush is no better nor worse that other Presidents in this regard (remember Waco and the Elian Gonzales machine-gun toting episodes of the Clinton years). A systemic problem has merely been exacerbated by the Bush administration's tightening of security after 9/11.
What is especially maddening about this stupidity is that these morons were wasting time harassing a law-abiding visitor (barring a minor paperwork problem) a friend of the United States, who wanted to visit New York and no doubt spend her money boosting its economy, while millions of illegal aliens stream across the border from Mexico and Hillary Clinton wants to give them driver's licenses and a free education.
The treatment of this Icelandic visitor to the US is shameful and the fact that anyone (like Janusinsocal) would choose to defend it is infuriating. We all know people who cannot take the slightest criticism, and sadly, there are some Americans who cannot take any criticism of their country either. I'm sure there are such "patriots" in other countries too.
However, I don't believe this insanity is deliberate on the part of the Bush administration. They have been hugely incompetent, no doubt, but I see this episode as being more symptomatic of a) the effect of bureaucracy on the people who get caught up in enforcing its rules and regulations (Kafka knew all about this) and b) the peculiarly American approach to crime and punishment, which seems to be completely devoid of common sense. Bush is no better nor worse that other Presidents in this regard (remember Waco and the Elian Gonzales machine-gun toting episodes of the Clinton years). A systemic problem has merely been exacerbated by the Bush administration's tightening of security after 9/11.
What is especially maddening about this stupidity is that these morons were wasting time harassing a law-abiding visitor (barring a minor paperwork problem) a friend of the United States, who wanted to visit New York and no doubt spend her money boosting its economy, while millions of illegal aliens stream across the border from Mexico and Hillary Clinton wants to give them driver's licenses and a free education.
Nor stupid nor incompetent...
The Bush administration is neither! The powers that control them have a definιte plan, which they carry out with cold precision. Having a frontman with bellow average intelligence (Bush) serves as the perfect smoke screen!. "Let them put the blame on the stupid guy". Don't buy that.
Presidents are expendable. Laws and belief systems are longer lasting. Fear and division is their game. Why would anyone blow himself up or try to cross US borders if he had a job, a house, a wife, kids, happiness, peace and dignity in his own country? WHY? Only because he envys your "freedom" in USA? Put your thinking caps on for a while...
Joseph Goebbels, minister of propaganda in Nazi Germany once said:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the state can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie ... The truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state."
So the unfolding consequences of all their lies will eventually wake up a LOT of people. I hope by then there are still some things left to save.
The Bush administration is neither! The powers that control them have a definιte plan, which they carry out with cold precision. Having a frontman with bellow average intelligence (Bush) serves as the perfect smoke screen!. "Let them put the blame on the stupid guy". Don't buy that.
Presidents are expendable. Laws and belief systems are longer lasting. Fear and division is their game. Why would anyone blow himself up or try to cross US borders if he had a job, a house, a wife, kids, happiness, peace and dignity in his own country? WHY? Only because he envys your "freedom" in USA? Put your thinking caps on for a while...
Joseph Goebbels, minister of propaganda in Nazi Germany once said:
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the state can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie ... The truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the state."
So the unfolding consequences of all their lies will eventually wake up a LOT of people. I hope by then there are still some things left to save.
Land of the free
There are many stories like this one. And they are precisely the reason why I won't visit the U.S. - that I've come to love so dearly over many decades - until Barack Obama becomes its President.
For details: I have left the U.S. in the 80's and 90's many times without being checked. No-one bothered, customs-people were having coffee, on strike, whatever. I am therefore, no doubt, an overstayed visa-holder.
I sympathize with Eva, her country is the most amazing I have ever visited, but to visit the U.S. as a foreigner at this point in time, one must be an ignorant fool.
'Somenone' put a very ugly fence around the 'shining city upon the hill', and we will just have to wait for someone else enlightenend to tear it down before we come back.
There are many stories like this one. And they are precisely the reason why I won't visit the U.S. - that I've come to love so dearly over many decades - until Barack Obama becomes its President.
For details: I have left the U.S. in the 80's and 90's many times without being checked. No-one bothered, customs-people were having coffee, on strike, whatever. I am therefore, no doubt, an overstayed visa-holder.
I sympathize with Eva, her country is the most amazing I have ever visited, but to visit the U.S. as a foreigner at this point in time, one must be an ignorant fool.
'Somenone' put a very ugly fence around the 'shining city upon the hill', and we will just have to wait for someone else enlightenend to tear it down before we come back.
Allow me to apologize
As an American patriot I hate to see things like this occur. Although violating our laws is a horrible thing for a guest to do I will assume since it was so long ago it was simply a folly of youth and regardless had nothing to do with being a security threat. Please forgive my fellow fearful citizens who do not realize that when they sacrifice their rights for the illusion of safety they force others to sacrifice as well which is not something that the fearful have the right to do.
Now I find the attitude that some are expressing that they will revel in the suffering of Americans because of our skittish citizens who lack in historical perspective just as shocking and vulgar as I find the actions of those underpaid and undereducated security personnel. This kind of hubris is what allows ignorant posters to say that the Untied States is great while they are the cancer which destroys all that is great with it - the ideals of liberty and individual rights. To these posters I suggest they pick up and read a copy of Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom" so that they can choose to not take that road.
I wanted to point out that the United State's healthcare system is not so bad. The linked article had a heavily weighted metric that judged the distribution of the healthcare system which thus skews results in favor of national systems which is itself a political comment by the authors of the study and not in the least bit a metric worthy of scientific scrutiny. Another comment mentioned infant mortality but the linked article never went into the difference between how nations record them. In the US still births and miscarriages are factored in to the infant mortality rate whereas they are not in most other nations. I've learned to do my own research since the lack of journalistic integrity in reporting such matters is extremely commonplace.
As an American patriot I hate to see things like this occur. Although violating our laws is a horrible thing for a guest to do I will assume since it was so long ago it was simply a folly of youth and regardless had nothing to do with being a security threat. Please forgive my fellow fearful citizens who do not realize that when they sacrifice their rights for the illusion of safety they force others to sacrifice as well which is not something that the fearful have the right to do.
Now I find the attitude that some are expressing that they will revel in the suffering of Americans because of our skittish citizens who lack in historical perspective just as shocking and vulgar as I find the actions of those underpaid and undereducated security personnel. This kind of hubris is what allows ignorant posters to say that the Untied States is great while they are the cancer which destroys all that is great with it - the ideals of liberty and individual rights. To these posters I suggest they pick up and read a copy of Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom" so that they can choose to not take that road.
I wanted to point out that the United State's healthcare system is not so bad. The linked article had a heavily weighted metric that judged the distribution of the healthcare system which thus skews results in favor of national systems which is itself a political comment by the authors of the study and not in the least bit a metric worthy of scientific scrutiny. Another comment mentioned infant mortality but the linked article never went into the difference between how nations record them. In the US still births and miscarriages are factored in to the infant mortality rate whereas they are not in most other nations. I've learned to do my own research since the lack of journalistic integrity in reporting such matters is extremely commonplace.
Which world would you rather live in?
Which world would you rather live in?
Most Republicans, Conservatives and Fundamental Christians, could be legally and most certainly psychiatrically and medically, diagnosed as Sociopaths and/or Psychopaths. Not only that, but these people are Capitalistic Imperialistic Terrorists who should be removed from America, they are ruining the United States of America, and they are ruining the World.
Or
"....if by a liberal they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, their civil liberties.. if that is what they mean by a "liberal" then I am proud to be a liberal. " ~ John F. Kennedy
Corey Mondello
Boston, Massachusetts
cpmondello@yahoo.com
www.CoreyMondello.com
12-27-07
Which world would you rather live in?
Most Republicans, Conservatives and Fundamental Christians, could be legally and most certainly psychiatrically and medically, diagnosed as Sociopaths and/or Psychopaths. Not only that, but these people are Capitalistic Imperialistic Terrorists who should be removed from America, they are ruining the United States of America, and they are ruining the World.
Or
"....if by a liberal they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, their civil liberties.. if that is what they mean by a "liberal" then I am proud to be a liberal. " ~ John F. Kennedy
Corey Mondello
Boston, Massachusetts
cpmondello@yahoo.com
www.CoreyMondello.com
12-27-07
Neither
Corey your world-view is split into two different factions. You have hatred in your heart unfounded and you judge others with a collectivist stamp. Thats the problem not the solution. Partisan politics is poison and our Founders knew it; George Washington himself was dead set against the idea of political parties.
That being said JFK from his policies would have been a Reagan era conservative and his outlook is nothing like the modern American liberal outlook now. Most likely in this Bush age of politics JFK would be an independent or a Republican who wouldn't be voting.
If you want to find the heart of our nation that lies with Classical Liberalism which is not even remotely connected to Modern American Liberalism which had been co-opted by the progressives in the early twentieth century.
Corey your world-view is split into two different factions. You have hatred in your heart unfounded and you judge others with a collectivist stamp. Thats the problem not the solution. Partisan politics is poison and our Founders knew it; George Washington himself was dead set against the idea of political parties.
That being said JFK from his policies would have been a Reagan era conservative and his outlook is nothing like the modern American liberal outlook now. Most likely in this Bush age of politics JFK would be an independent or a Republican who wouldn't be voting.
If you want to find the heart of our nation that lies with Classical Liberalism which is not even remotely connected to Modern American Liberalism which had been co-opted by the progressives in the early twentieth century.
We Shall Never Forget!
Pardon my prejudice, but I can't care about foreigners--Icelandic, blonde, or otherwise--traveling in the U.S. Foreigners come here to save money on shopping, which impacts the value of the dollar, and they expect to be treated as equal to U.S. citizens! I hope Eva Ósk Arnardóttir learned a hard lesson and, while I understand that tourism is an important business in our Nation, I hope she never returns!
When traveling abroad, one should expect to be treated like foreigner. I don't travel abroad for this very reason; I would be concerned about what could/might happen to me. Of course, I don't expect everyone to feel or live like I do, but I do expect intelligent people to realize that humane treatment in any foreign country is never guaranteed! What happened to Eva Ósk Arnardóttir can happen to ANYone, at ANY time, ANYwhere in the world!
9/11 was a real event, and there are legitimate reasons for being cautious or, yes, even suspicious. WE SHALL NEVER FORGET!
Wake up, people! We live in a world of war, insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils.
Pardon my prejudice, but I can't care about foreigners--Icelandic, blonde, or otherwise--traveling in the U.S. Foreigners come here to save money on shopping, which impacts the value of the dollar, and they expect to be treated as equal to U.S. citizens! I hope Eva Ósk Arnardóttir learned a hard lesson and, while I understand that tourism is an important business in our Nation, I hope she never returns!
When traveling abroad, one should expect to be treated like foreigner. I don't travel abroad for this very reason; I would be concerned about what could/might happen to me. Of course, I don't expect everyone to feel or live like I do, but I do expect intelligent people to realize that humane treatment in any foreign country is never guaranteed! What happened to Eva Ósk Arnardóttir can happen to ANYone, at ANY time, ANYwhere in the world!
9/11 was a real event, and there are legitimate reasons for being cautious or, yes, even suspicious. WE SHALL NEVER FORGET!
Wake up, people! We live in a world of war, insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils.
You have already forgotten
The only lesson she is likely to learn from your post is an ungrounded hatred for Americans and the belief that all Americans are as ignorant and foolish as yourself. It is very obvious you don't travel as your insular and xenophobic outlook on other human beings is constrained by an us-them attitude. Perhaps these words will help you remember the soul that this nation was founded on:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."
Rights don't exist because someone is a member of a nation, a racial group, a gender, or anything else - their rights exist because of their existence as a living human being.
9/11 Did nothing except open us up to the scared individuals like yourself clinging to someone who they view as strong and wrongly and ignorantly your ilk flocked to the skirt of government. In opposition to our highest law, in opposition to the ideological groundwork that established what we consider Western civilization to be now, and in abject denial of the lessons of history: you have sacrificed the liberties of others because you are fearful and cowardly. Liberty isn't free, it is a continuous and animating struggle.
The only lesson she is likely to learn from your post is an ungrounded hatred for Americans and the belief that all Americans are as ignorant and foolish as yourself. It is very obvious you don't travel as your insular and xenophobic outlook on other human beings is constrained by an us-them attitude. Perhaps these words will help you remember the soul that this nation was founded on:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government..."
Rights don't exist because someone is a member of a nation, a racial group, a gender, or anything else - their rights exist because of their existence as a living human being.
9/11 Did nothing except open us up to the scared individuals like yourself clinging to someone who they view as strong and wrongly and ignorantly your ilk flocked to the skirt of government. In opposition to our highest law, in opposition to the ideological groundwork that established what we consider Western civilization to be now, and in abject denial of the lessons of history: you have sacrificed the liberties of others because you are fearful and cowardly. Liberty isn't free, it is a continuous and animating struggle.
We shall never forget??? part1
"Pardon my prejudice, but I can't care about foreigners--Washingtoners, Texans, Ohians, blonde, yellow, black, green, blue, or otherwise--traveling outside the U.S. Foreigners come from there to save money on shopping, which impacts the value of the dollar, even beyond what the Bush administration has managed to devaluate and damage and they expect to be treated as equal to the rest of the world's citizens! I hope John Doe learned a hard lesson when he was killed in London, and in Canada and in ... a while back, and, while I understand that tourism is an important business in the rest of the world, I hope he stays dead!
When traveling abroad, one should expect to be treated like a foreigner. I don't travel to the US for this very reason; I would be concerned about what could/might happen to me. All those little warden wannabees. Of course, I don't expect everyone to feel or live like I do, but I do expect intelligent people to realize that humane treatment in the US is never guaranteed! What happened to John Doe can happen to ANYone, at ANY time, ANYwhere in the US!
Please don't forget Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Please don't forget Korea, Cambodia and Vietnam. Those were real events where millions of people died. And there are legitimate reasons that the rest of the world should be cautious and very careful or, yes, even suspicious of anything or anyone coming from the US.
WE SHALL NEVER FORGET!
Wake up, people! We live in a world of war, insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils."
:-l
"Pardon my prejudice, but I can't care about foreigners--Washingtoners, Texans, Ohians, blonde, yellow, black, green, blue, or otherwise--traveling outside the U.S. Foreigners come from there to save money on shopping, which impacts the value of the dollar, even beyond what the Bush administration has managed to devaluate and damage and they expect to be treated as equal to the rest of the world's citizens! I hope John Doe learned a hard lesson when he was killed in London, and in Canada and in ... a while back, and, while I understand that tourism is an important business in the rest of the world, I hope he stays dead!
When traveling abroad, one should expect to be treated like a foreigner. I don't travel to the US for this very reason; I would be concerned about what could/might happen to me. All those little warden wannabees. Of course, I don't expect everyone to feel or live like I do, but I do expect intelligent people to realize that humane treatment in the US is never guaranteed! What happened to John Doe can happen to ANYone, at ANY time, ANYwhere in the US!
Please don't forget Dresden, Nagasaki and Hiroshima. Please don't forget Korea, Cambodia and Vietnam. Those were real events where millions of people died. And there are legitimate reasons that the rest of the world should be cautious and very careful or, yes, even suspicious of anything or anyone coming from the US.
WE SHALL NEVER FORGET!
Wake up, people! We live in a world of war, insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils."
:-l
We shall never forget??? Part2
Well, how would you like it if this was the view of the rest of the world, all five or more billion of them? Please don't forget that what goes around comes around and there has always come a point where wrongdoers are punished.
The trouble with time is that the views change as time passes and today's good deed often becomes tomorrows monstrosity.
The day we stop caring about a fellow human is the day we sign a contract for our own demise. You only need to look at Emperian Russia, Hitlers Germany and pre Mao China. All Dictatorships will come to an end.
This whole thing is not about whether this particular woman was mistreated or if the poor misguided individuals who did so had a probable cause or not. This is about letting domestic and foreign terrorists change the US into a police state and then sit back laughing at your governments stupidity.
It is also about allowing these same terrorist to play you like marionettes in a way that makes you the laughing stock of the civilized world.
They did it so you would start a few more wars, like with Afghanistan and Iraq. And to aid in the self destruction of your economy. Bombing the twin towers on 911 was a monstrosity that can only be compared with other monstrosities in the wake of history like the bombing of Nagasaki, Hiroshima and Dresden.
Sadly for the citizens of the US, your government took the bait and I suggest you all look at what it has brought you. Your trade deficit with China is getting larger by the minute. Your economic situation is in shambles. And still you let your big enterprises outsource jobs as if your nations future depended on US citizens being unemployed.
For decades we, the western civilizations have been trampling around the middle east killing people right and left. We even stole the land needed to house a whole nation because no one wanted them and that nut case Hitler and the Russians before him even tried to exterminate them.
How dare you live in the childish, naive believe that this would not create a problem later on in the line of history? What would you say if your Native Americans suddenly came and said: "You all go home now. We want our land back." You would be furious and probably kill the lot of them. But to the Arabs you say "Shut up. Those people lived here some 1000 or so years ago, so it is their land."
How does this compute?
Well, how would you like it if this was the view of the rest of the world, all five or more billion of them? Please don't forget that what goes around comes around and there has always come a point where wrongdoers are punished.
The trouble with time is that the views change as time passes and today's good deed often becomes tomorrows monstrosity.
The day we stop caring about a fellow human is the day we sign a contract for our own demise. You only need to look at Emperian Russia, Hitlers Germany and pre Mao China. All Dictatorships will come to an end.
This whole thing is not about whether this particular woman was mistreated or if the poor misguided individuals who did so had a probable cause or not. This is about letting domestic and foreign terrorists change the US into a police state and then sit back laughing at your governments stupidity.
It is also about allowing these same terrorist to play you like marionettes in a way that makes you the laughing stock of the civilized world.
They did it so you would start a few more wars, like with Afghanistan and Iraq. And to aid in the self destruction of your economy. Bombing the twin towers on 911 was a monstrosity that can only be compared with other monstrosities in the wake of history like the bombing of Nagasaki, Hiroshima and Dresden.
Sadly for the citizens of the US, your government took the bait and I suggest you all look at what it has brought you. Your trade deficit with China is getting larger by the minute. Your economic situation is in shambles. And still you let your big enterprises outsource jobs as if your nations future depended on US citizens being unemployed.
For decades we, the western civilizations have been trampling around the middle east killing people right and left. We even stole the land needed to house a whole nation because no one wanted them and that nut case Hitler and the Russians before him even tried to exterminate them.
How dare you live in the childish, naive believe that this would not create a problem later on in the line of history? What would you say if your Native Americans suddenly came and said: "You all go home now. We want our land back." You would be furious and probably kill the lot of them. But to the Arabs you say "Shut up. Those people lived here some 1000 or so years ago, so it is their land."
How does this compute?
We shall never forget??? Part3
So you want to have the right to mistreat people at your airports?
Ok. But if I where a terrorist I would disguise myself as an illegal immigrant and come over the south border along with the tens of thousands of others that come that way each year...
To the rest of the US population I would like to extend my condolences for having to endure such badly advised leadership that bought their way to power with television time financed with moneys obtained largely from the large corporations.
The strange thing is that they didn't even have the majority of voters behind them. Do you remember the voting results in Florida?
And since we are at it, "bashing" politicians that is, remember the "great" job that was done in New Orleans? There actually is a whole world outside your borders that remembers these things and is not quite ready to forget your track record during the last 50 years or so.
It is kind of sad to think about all the money that could have been spent on securing your Golf citys being spent on two rather that one war.
Well actually if you keep polluting the way you do, your Golf citys may dissapear completely anyway allowing you to spent even more money on "punishing" your enemys.
It seems one can hear a collective sigh go through the rest of the western world each time you manage to elect a half ways decent administration that is not backed by warmongers like the Hawks.
Please correct me if I got any of this the wrong way.
Kind regards
Hans
And yes I live in Iceland.
So you want to have the right to mistreat people at your airports?
Ok. But if I where a terrorist I would disguise myself as an illegal immigrant and come over the south border along with the tens of thousands of others that come that way each year...
To the rest of the US population I would like to extend my condolences for having to endure such badly advised leadership that bought their way to power with television time financed with moneys obtained largely from the large corporations.
The strange thing is that they didn't even have the majority of voters behind them. Do you remember the voting results in Florida?
And since we are at it, "bashing" politicians that is, remember the "great" job that was done in New Orleans? There actually is a whole world outside your borders that remembers these things and is not quite ready to forget your track record during the last 50 years or so.
It is kind of sad to think about all the money that could have been spent on securing your Golf citys being spent on two rather that one war.
Well actually if you keep polluting the way you do, your Golf citys may dissapear completely anyway allowing you to spent even more money on "punishing" your enemys.
It seems one can hear a collective sigh go through the rest of the western world each time you manage to elect a half ways decent administration that is not backed by warmongers like the Hawks.
Please correct me if I got any of this the wrong way.
Kind regards
Hans
And yes I live in Iceland.
Correction
This should have been Gulf cities and not Golf cities since I'm referring to the cities at the waterfront in the Gulf of Mexico.
I apologize for the typo.
Hans
This should have been Gulf cities and not Golf cities since I'm referring to the cities at the waterfront in the Gulf of Mexico.
I apologize for the typo.
Hans
You were treated shamefully
I apologize on behalf of the U.S. for the way you were treated. This is absolutely shameful! I am glad you made your story public. We have truly become a police state, more and more every month. It will take a great deal of struggle to undo the damage that has been done to our Constitution, and even more to undo the damage that has been done to the U.S.'s reputation in the world. Incidents like this only exacerbate the latter.
If I could, I would emigrate to someplace like Iceland. Due to my medical conditions, I must stay here in the U.S., but I fight constantly to return our country to the way it is supposed to be. And once again, on behalf of many of us who did not choose the administration that we have or the changes that it has wrought, I apologize.
I apologize on behalf of the U.S. for the way you were treated. This is absolutely shameful! I am glad you made your story public. We have truly become a police state, more and more every month. It will take a great deal of struggle to undo the damage that has been done to our Constitution, and even more to undo the damage that has been done to the U.S.'s reputation in the world. Incidents like this only exacerbate the latter.
If I could, I would emigrate to someplace like Iceland. Due to my medical conditions, I must stay here in the U.S., but I fight constantly to return our country to the way it is supposed to be. And once again, on behalf of many of us who did not choose the administration that we have or the changes that it has wrought, I apologize.
-Sigh-
I agree with many of you to an extent. Eva was mistreated, however what if it had been a Arab muslim that had done the same thing. Would any of you feel differently? Your all saying, oh she was just an innocent beautiful icelandic woman, it really SHOULD NOT matter what race, color, the person is, if they break the law there will be repercusions, they may have been harsh but she did deserve punishment, and for all you people know there may have been something else behind the whole interrogation of her. No one has any idea of how much goes on behind the closed doors of the CIA, FBI, and other government agencies. They have done countless things that you will NEVER know about, all you will see is that one person that ended up innocent was "harassed" for a couple hours. I truly hate what this world is coming to and hope that something happens to change it before we end up in a large scale WW.
P.S. if I offended anyone I just want you to know it wasn't aimed directly at you but at the many replies that I read.
I agree with many of you to an extent. Eva was mistreated, however what if it had been a Arab muslim that had done the same thing. Would any of you feel differently? Your all saying, oh she was just an innocent beautiful icelandic woman, it really SHOULD NOT matter what race, color, the person is, if they break the law there will be repercusions, they may have been harsh but she did deserve punishment, and for all you people know there may have been something else behind the whole interrogation of her. No one has any idea of how much goes on behind the closed doors of the CIA, FBI, and other government agencies. They have done countless things that you will NEVER know about, all you will see is that one person that ended up innocent was "harassed" for a couple hours. I truly hate what this world is coming to and hope that something happens to change it before we end up in a large scale WW.
P.S. if I offended anyone I just want you to know it wasn't aimed directly at you but at the many replies that I read.
race matters?
The point about her race is not that what happens to other people who are arabs or muslims is forgotten, but that this woman's experience points to one of the gradual shifts in a fascist government. Most people think that this kind of event will never happen to them. No one is saying that because she was white that what happened to her is worse than what happens to a person of Arabic origin. If that has been said, please point it out. But, their is a tipping point. What is stopping the authorities from doing the same thing to an American citizen? Nothing but the will to do it.
The point about her race is not that what happens to other people who are arabs or muslims is forgotten, but that this woman's experience points to one of the gradual shifts in a fascist government. Most people think that this kind of event will never happen to them. No one is saying that because she was white that what happened to her is worse than what happens to a person of Arabic origin. If that has been said, please point it out. But, their is a tipping point. What is stopping the authorities from doing the same thing to an American citizen? Nothing but the will to do it.
A different view at things.
I would like to share with you a reply I sent to a friend of mine that pointed me to this thread:
I think we Icelanders in general have a pretty thick skin.
What is sad about the whole thing is that it took a "white" Icelander to experience this before your authorities did anything about the mistreatment of foreigners.
This same thing has been happening to Hispanics, Arabs, Indians, Pakistanis and god knows who else, for quite a few years now. Probably even since before 911.
Your heartsick second in command is probably a criminal or at least pretty close to being one, so it is impossible that anything he or his like say, to be taken as an insult by any normal decent human being. The money that he and/or his cohorts are making in countries occupied by the US...
Normal people would have landed in jail years ago for such acts of racketeering.
Those guys are actually gambling with the lives of US soldiers, driving down the US economy and placing the nation hopelessly in debt with the Chinese who I have heard are financing a great part of the war costs and the US housing project. Also a large part of the US's foreign exchange deficit seems to be towards China.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, in short, you do not owe me or anyone else an apology.
Some assholes over there do, but not the general population. The general population has been misled for so long that they probably don't know what is up and what is down anymore.
One more thing.
Religious fanatics are dangerous wherever they live, in Iran or in the US heartlands.
Therefore, it's sad to say, in historical retrospect, we may find out that Bush and Dick where little better than Khomeiny and Osama.
Also all the outsourcing of jobs to other countries is slowly generating an environment in the US that could be compared to the brew we had in Germany, between the wars, before the asshole over there got to power.
If anything this may be a breeding ground for any half crazed redneck to gain popularity and start to cause trouble.
Sad isn't it?
I would like to share with you a reply I sent to a friend of mine that pointed me to this thread:
I think we Icelanders in general have a pretty thick skin.
What is sad about the whole thing is that it took a "white" Icelander to experience this before your authorities did anything about the mistreatment of foreigners.
This same thing has been happening to Hispanics, Arabs, Indians, Pakistanis and god knows who else, for quite a few years now. Probably even since before 911.
Your heartsick second in command is probably a criminal or at least pretty close to being one, so it is impossible that anything he or his like say, to be taken as an insult by any normal decent human being. The money that he and/or his cohorts are making in countries occupied by the US...
Normal people would have landed in jail years ago for such acts of racketeering.
Those guys are actually gambling with the lives of US soldiers, driving down the US economy and placing the nation hopelessly in debt with the Chinese who I have heard are financing a great part of the war costs and the US housing project. Also a large part of the US's foreign exchange deficit seems to be towards China.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
So, in short, you do not owe me or anyone else an apology.
Some assholes over there do, but not the general population. The general population has been misled for so long that they probably don't know what is up and what is down anymore.
One more thing.
Religious fanatics are dangerous wherever they live, in Iran or in the US heartlands.
Therefore, it's sad to say, in historical retrospect, we may find out that Bush and Dick where little better than Khomeiny and Osama.
Also all the outsourcing of jobs to other countries is slowly generating an environment in the US that could be compared to the brew we had in Germany, between the wars, before the asshole over there got to power.
If anything this may be a breeding ground for any half crazed redneck to gain popularity and start to cause trouble.
Sad isn't it?
Only one side of the story.
From her translated account, Eva Ósk Arnardóttir certainly suffered unreasonably at the hands of US border authorities. However, it is only from her account that we know this. It is possible that the US border officers behaved exactly as reported. It is also possible her posting is an exercise in damage control.
Yes, US border control officials can be brusque sometimes overstep their bounds. But so, too, travelers are sometimes belligerent and untruthful. I have been both a border control officer for my country and an international traveler.
For example, about 15 years ago an irate Brit wrote a blistering "expose" of his treatment at a port of entry, stating that our embassy said he didn't need a visa, that he was unreasonably punished for a "youthful mistake", and that officials were racist, because his was the only white face in the "detention area". If he called the Embassy, but he certainly didn't reveal that his "youthful indiscretion" was murder/robbery at the age of 17. We checked the logs f, and he was the only person refused admission that day. The "brown faces" he saw in the "detention area" were newly landed immigrants being processed for admission.
So, forgive me if I wonder exactly what her "cooperative" attitude was like. Forgive me if wonder if the only blemish that surfaced on her record was just one violation of her prior immigration status.
She could be telling God's own truth. But we don't know that.
From her translated account, Eva Ósk Arnardóttir certainly suffered unreasonably at the hands of US border authorities. However, it is only from her account that we know this. It is possible that the US border officers behaved exactly as reported. It is also possible her posting is an exercise in damage control.
Yes, US border control officials can be brusque sometimes overstep their bounds. But so, too, travelers are sometimes belligerent and untruthful. I have been both a border control officer for my country and an international traveler.
For example, about 15 years ago an irate Brit wrote a blistering "expose" of his treatment at a port of entry, stating that our embassy said he didn't need a visa, that he was unreasonably punished for a "youthful mistake", and that officials were racist, because his was the only white face in the "detention area". If he called the Embassy, but he certainly didn't reveal that his "youthful indiscretion" was murder/robbery at the age of 17. We checked the logs f, and he was the only person refused admission that day. The "brown faces" he saw in the "detention area" were newly landed immigrants being processed for admission.
So, forgive me if I wonder exactly what her "cooperative" attitude was like. Forgive me if wonder if the only blemish that surfaced on her record was just one violation of her prior immigration status.
She could be telling God's own truth. But we don't know that.
the problem is
For some reason, you are giving the benefit of the doubt to the US government. Why you would do that, I am not sure. They do not deserve it nor do they need it. Comparing what this woman went through to "brusque border officials" is ludicrous, and you are also being unfavorable to the traveler, taking a leap of faith that she was belliegerent or untruthful.
The fact of the matter is that whatever she did, she certainly did not deserve to be put through the experience that she was. I cannot fathom why someone would want to be apologetic towards the authorities in this respect, as though they had no other choice. They certainly had many options, but they chose the most dehumanizing and humiliating one they could. Please don't try to cast blame on anyone else.
For some reason, you are giving the benefit of the doubt to the US government. Why you would do that, I am not sure. They do not deserve it nor do they need it. Comparing what this woman went through to "brusque border officials" is ludicrous, and you are also being unfavorable to the traveler, taking a leap of faith that she was belliegerent or untruthful.
The fact of the matter is that whatever she did, she certainly did not deserve to be put through the experience that she was. I cannot fathom why someone would want to be apologetic towards the authorities in this respect, as though they had no other choice. They certainly had many options, but they chose the most dehumanizing and humiliating one they could. Please don't try to cast blame on anyone else.
Only one side of the story???
Somehow I feel this is not a question of whether she was telling the truth or not. Somehow I feel this is more a question of general excessive force being integrated into and being applied in the US administrational system.
You allow for the option to process children as adults when they commit a crime.
You sentence children to 10 years of imprisonment, when charged with things were other countries place them in treatment, often turning them into hardened criminals by the time they come out of jail.
Some of your states kill criminals when proven guilty even when they are after their death proven not guilty. Are those people then categorized as collateral damage? Is better to kill the innocent just to make sure you don't miss anyone that might be guilty?
In my mind a situation like Eva's should have been solved by simply saying: "You are not welcome here due to your previous discretions and we will place you in a one person holding cell until the next available flight to your point of origin or your homeland. You may request something to drink from the warden and should the wait be longer than four hours you will be fed. And, please do not try to return to this country again without getting a green light and a visa from our embassy in your home country."
Everything else is excessive force and a farce in the eyes of any civilized country. Especially when watching the magnitude of illegal immigrants in the US. You will not solve your immigration problem by shackling and interrogating people at your airports. Also I doubt that a hardened terrorist is deterred from entering the US by these methods.
I can imagine why you think like you do, but that does not make this, or any other wrong, right.
Continuing your line of thinking, I wonder when the US starts to fine people that are shot or stabbed, for bleeding on the street.
Just a thought.
Hans
Somehow I feel this is not a question of whether she was telling the truth or not. Somehow I feel this is more a question of general excessive force being integrated into and being applied in the US administrational system.
You allow for the option to process children as adults when they commit a crime.
You sentence children to 10 years of imprisonment, when charged with things were other countries place them in treatment, often turning them into hardened criminals by the time they come out of jail.
Some of your states kill criminals when proven guilty even when they are after their death proven not guilty. Are those people then categorized as collateral damage? Is better to kill the innocent just to make sure you don't miss anyone that might be guilty?
In my mind a situation like Eva's should have been solved by simply saying: "You are not welcome here due to your previous discretions and we will place you in a one person holding cell until the next available flight to your point of origin or your homeland. You may request something to drink from the warden and should the wait be longer than four hours you will be fed. And, please do not try to return to this country again without getting a green light and a visa from our embassy in your home country."
Everything else is excessive force and a farce in the eyes of any civilized country. Especially when watching the magnitude of illegal immigrants in the US. You will not solve your immigration problem by shackling and interrogating people at your airports. Also I doubt that a hardened terrorist is deterred from entering the US by these methods.
I can imagine why you think like you do, but that does not make this, or any other wrong, right.
Continuing your line of thinking, I wonder when the US starts to fine people that are shot or stabbed, for bleeding on the street.
Just a thought.
Hans
OMG, a white woman got deported for breaking the law! outrage! what has become of america? remember we we used to only treat colored men this way? fascist! police state!
vote for ron paul!
vote for ron paul!
Greatest Democracy?
Hello World. What this poor woman went through is shameful, but indicative of the fascist state that the US has become. I am so ashamed of being an American. My federal government outrages me. Our national elected officials are morons and criminals. Most of us did not vote for these buffoons, and many of us, if we were serving on a jury, would convict and imprison Bush, Cheney, Rice et al. We cannot rise up in revolution, but we will vote them out of office in 2008. For all of those who have been grossly mistreated by our so-called government in the name of "terrorism," I apologize. If it makes any difference.
Hello World. What this poor woman went through is shameful, but indicative of the fascist state that the US has become. I am so ashamed of being an American. My federal government outrages me. Our national elected officials are morons and criminals. Most of us did not vote for these buffoons, and many of us, if we were serving on a jury, would convict and imprison Bush, Cheney, Rice et al. We cannot rise up in revolution, but we will vote them out of office in 2008. For all of those who have been grossly mistreated by our so-called government in the name of "terrorism," I apologize. If it makes any difference.
Are laws meaningless?
She was treated the same way a young man from Iran would have been treated for overstaying his visa by 3 weeks. In American law, all are equal. (Unless you're wealthy.) As unfortunate as this was for this attractive young lady, she should have been detained and deported. No exceptions... even if you're hot.
She was treated the same way a young man from Iran would have been treated for overstaying his visa by 3 weeks. In American law, all are equal. (Unless you're wealthy.) As unfortunate as this was for this attractive young lady, she should have been detained and deported. No exceptions... even if you're hot.
Are laws meaningless? No but they should not be cruel.
No one should be treated like this person was. If your laws provide for such treatment they should be changed.
No one should be treated like this person was. If your laws provide for such treatment they should be changed.
this should not happen here under any circumstances.
Has the lady contacted her government to bring up the issue and find the officials who let it happened? this needs to be pursued right now.
Has the lady contacted her government to bring up the issue and find the officials who let it happened? this needs to be pursued right now.
This should not...
If I remember correctly then our foreign minister logged a formal complaint with your ambassador over here. And it seems after looking into it there was some talk of an appologie and a closer look at procedures practiced in such cases.
But others may know more since I wasn't following the news closely at the time.
Hans
If I remember correctly then our foreign minister logged a formal complaint with your ambassador over here. And it seems after looking into it there was some talk of an appologie and a closer look at procedures practiced in such cases.
But others may know more since I wasn't following the news closely at the time.
Hans
Fear and Rationalization!
It deeply concerns me to live in a society where so many people are filled with fear. They have a confused view of the world, perhaps because they have little exposure to it, but they see and read things that are obviously wrong and still rationalize a justification for it. Every nation and people have the right to make and uphold their own laws and to expect that those laws be enforced even against friends who violate them. The problem is that this rationalization is carried to the extreme and is justified in so many ignorant ways by so many ignorant people.
On behalf of the few sane people of the US, I am sincerely sorry that fools in my government and among our police at all levels, behave in such an uncivilized manner. I would suggest that travel to the paranoid United States be stopped while the little Stalin is still in power. I'm not convinced that regime change in the US would result in changing these terrorist tactics against women and children and other civiilized travelers.
For decades we have welcomed students from all over the world into our country and I thought anyway that we were building friendships and exporting our ideas. I continue to think that we have more influence on the world that we communicate and share with than what we have on the world that we shut out and isolate. I for one would open diplomatic relations with Cuba, North Korea and Iran. None the less, we have made it increasingly difficult for students and tourists to visit our country and we have even made it imposible for our own citizens to cross the Mexican and Canadian borders without passports. The long term effect will work against everything that most Americans believe in.
It amazes me that the heart of the evil within this nation is in our own religious leaders and their religious philosophy. They preach war and violence in the name of Jesus. They remind us that we are a Christian nation and then they support rendition, rationalize torture and preach hate. The empire is falling from within.
It deeply concerns me to live in a society where so many people are filled with fear. They have a confused view of the world, perhaps because they have little exposure to it, but they see and read things that are obviously wrong and still rationalize a justification for it. Every nation and people have the right to make and uphold their own laws and to expect that those laws be enforced even against friends who violate them. The problem is that this rationalization is carried to the extreme and is justified in so many ignorant ways by so many ignorant people.
On behalf of the few sane people of the US, I am sincerely sorry that fools in my government and among our police at all levels, behave in such an uncivilized manner. I would suggest that travel to the paranoid United States be stopped while the little Stalin is still in power. I'm not convinced that regime change in the US would result in changing these terrorist tactics against women and children and other civiilized travelers.
For decades we have welcomed students from all over the world into our country and I thought anyway that we were building friendships and exporting our ideas. I continue to think that we have more influence on the world that we communicate and share with than what we have on the world that we shut out and isolate. I for one would open diplomatic relations with Cuba, North Korea and Iran. None the less, we have made it increasingly difficult for students and tourists to visit our country and we have even made it imposible for our own citizens to cross the Mexican and Canadian borders without passports. The long term effect will work against everything that most Americans believe in.
It amazes me that the heart of the evil within this nation is in our own religious leaders and their religious philosophy. They preach war and violence in the name of Jesus. They remind us that we are a Christian nation and then they support rendition, rationalize torture and preach hate. The empire is falling from within.
America
This looks like a society in decline to me. There are better place to live in the world and I will never be visiting US soil again.
This looks like a society in decline to me. There are better place to live in the world and I will never be visiting US soil again.
Please don't judge us all
The USA isn't a fascist country yet, though detestable episodes like this are evidence that we're heading in that direction. All I can ask is that the world be patient -- there are a whole lot of us in the US that don't like what's happening, and are working very hard to raise awareness and make changes.
Citizens *are* listening, and they *are* starting to tell their representatives that this kind of neo-fascist crap is not OK. But, change comes slowly in the US, and while the current administration is in power, it will be even slower.
We elect a new administration this November, and it will assume power in early 2009. The best thing my fellow lovers of freedom who live in Europe and other countries can do is to pressure their governments to put pressure on ours. That, and continue to publicize when the powers granted to our police forces abuse their authority.
Thank you for sharing this story, but please don't give up on the US just yet -- rather, show your support for those of us who want to see the US again become the noble example of a free society that it once was.
The USA isn't a fascist country yet, though detestable episodes like this are evidence that we're heading in that direction. All I can ask is that the world be patient -- there are a whole lot of us in the US that don't like what's happening, and are working very hard to raise awareness and make changes.
Citizens *are* listening, and they *are* starting to tell their representatives that this kind of neo-fascist crap is not OK. But, change comes slowly in the US, and while the current administration is in power, it will be even slower.
We elect a new administration this November, and it will assume power in early 2009. The best thing my fellow lovers of freedom who live in Europe and other countries can do is to pressure their governments to put pressure on ours. That, and continue to publicize when the powers granted to our police forces abuse their authority.
Thank you for sharing this story, but please don't give up on the US just yet -- rather, show your support for those of us who want to see the US again become the noble example of a free society that it once was.
Sorry
Welcome to the home of the Christian Reich.
Our leaders are criminals. Our people are, for the most part, frightened sheep that do nothing but hope "the next president will be better", or worse, swallow this administration's lies, like Nlw909:
"Wake up, people! We live in a world of war, insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils"
No, YOU live in a world of world of "insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils" THAT'S the problem.
Those of us that petition, protest, and rebel are trying to wake them up. Thank you for sharing this story of our insanity.
Radientmatrix, I admire your optimism, but patience won't get us anywhere. You have to get furious.
Welcome to the home of the Christian Reich.
Our leaders are criminals. Our people are, for the most part, frightened sheep that do nothing but hope "the next president will be better", or worse, swallow this administration's lies, like Nlw909:
"Wake up, people! We live in a world of war, insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils"
No, YOU live in a world of world of "insecurity, danger, suspicion and unfortunate-but-necessary evils" THAT'S the problem.
Those of us that petition, protest, and rebel are trying to wake them up. Thank you for sharing this story of our insanity.
Radientmatrix, I admire your optimism, but patience won't get us anywhere. You have to get furious.
time to chaned the last 2 lines of the National Anthem
RE:9/11
We have ceded our Freedom(s), because our leaders want us to be afraid, now, we are no longer the "land of the free" OR "the home of the brave" We are no longer willing to "Water the TREE of FREEDOM with the blood of Patriots ". Here, ALL, talk of "The Declaration of Independence's' and go to great lengths to pay lip service to it, but those who lead, fight to see that it has NO FORCE IN LAW, for all of the last 215 years. Imagine if the native americans had had a visa overstay policy.
And lastly... By the great God Capitalism... She came to spend her MONEY, here, and then go back home!!!
Eva Ósk Arnardóttir, please accept my apology on behalf of those of us who can no longer enter an airport here to just watch the planes come and go, a freedom I loved as a child, who's politics are such that we are already on a "NO FLY" list ourselves.
MadMichaelJohn
RE:9/11
We have ceded our Freedom(s), because our leaders want us to be afraid, now, we are no longer the "land of the free" OR "the home of the brave" We are no longer willing to "Water the TREE of FREEDOM with the blood of Patriots ". Here, ALL, talk of "The Declaration of Independence's' and go to great lengths to pay lip service to it, but those who lead, fight to see that it has NO FORCE IN LAW, for all of the last 215 years. Imagine if the native americans had had a visa overstay policy.
And lastly... By the great God Capitalism... She came to spend her MONEY, here, and then go back home!!!
Eva Ósk Arnardóttir, please accept my apology on behalf of those of us who can no longer enter an airport here to just watch the planes come and go, a freedom I loved as a child, who's politics are such that we are already on a "NO FLY" list ourselves.
MadMichaelJohn
there WAS a dream
i am a 23 year old american woman, who, until lately, was proud to call herself such. what happened to the country of dreams? the land of opportunity? a country where it was ENCOURAGED to question the authority placed above us... if only to make the country better for the PEOPLE. we used to welcome those who wanted to visit, for we were proud of our america. now, we readily "spit" on anyone with so much as a foreign accent. yes, this woman broke the law... she wanted to enjoy our country for a little longer. who cares? did she hurt anyone? steal anything? plant bombs? no. she was merely on vacation. ok, send her home until does whatever needs to be done to redeem herself of such a heinous crime. but to treat her as though she walked into the airport with bombs strapped to her chest is absurd. her period is not the business of our government. if a gov't official asked me that question, i would ask him when the last time he ejaculated was, for i feel it is of the same relevance. for those of you who felt her treatment was justified: put yourself in that position. i know you would be OUTRAGED that you, an AMERICAN, was being treated in such ways. the 9th circle of hell is reserved for dark hearts like yours.
what has happened to everything those before us fought for? and i hate that i'm such a young person, because i fear that this is only beginning, that my children will see much worse. and unfortunately, my children will never know the simple pleasure of going to the airport to watch the planes go by when they aren't actually going to ride one, or kiss someone goodbye at the gate. it sounds silly, but aren't these some of the things that make our lives go by? the things we live for?
eva, i'm sorry for your treatment. i'm sorry my government has lost sight of the dreams of the men before them.
i am a 23 year old american woman, who, until lately, was proud to call herself such. what happened to the country of dreams? the land of opportunity? a country where it was ENCOURAGED to question the authority placed above us... if only to make the country better for the PEOPLE. we used to welcome those who wanted to visit, for we were proud of our america. now, we readily "spit" on anyone with so much as a foreign accent. yes, this woman broke the law... she wanted to enjoy our country for a little longer. who cares? did she hurt anyone? steal anything? plant bombs? no. she was merely on vacation. ok, send her home until does whatever needs to be done to redeem herself of such a heinous crime. but to treat her as though she walked into the airport with bombs strapped to her chest is absurd. her period is not the business of our government. if a gov't official asked me that question, i would ask him when the last time he ejaculated was, for i feel it is of the same relevance. for those of you who felt her treatment was justified: put yourself in that position. i know you would be OUTRAGED that you, an AMERICAN, was being treated in such ways. the 9th circle of hell is reserved for dark hearts like yours.
what has happened to everything those before us fought for? and i hate that i'm such a young person, because i fear that this is only beginning, that my children will see much worse. and unfortunately, my children will never know the simple pleasure of going to the airport to watch the planes go by when they aren't actually going to ride one, or kiss someone goodbye at the gate. it sounds silly, but aren't these some of the things that make our lives go by? the things we live for?
eva, i'm sorry for your treatment. i'm sorry my government has lost sight of the dreams of the men before them.
I seriuosly can't believe this poor girls story...
Jeez, it must be awful hard work on your minister for tourism these past few years trying to entice potential visitors into the country. If i were a country in rapid economic decline, i'd be doing my utmost best to keep the foreign currency coming in, and the guests happy! She could have injected tens of thousands of foreign dollars into a fabled economy. At the moment America, you need all the tourist dollars you can get!
For every 'one' tourist that comes into your country, there's the potential for a further 20 referrals once the visitor returns home with fantastic stories of how great your country is. But that lady will now tell everyone she knows back home to never ever go to America, and inform them of the grossly unfair and outright rude treatment she received as a guest within the country. Congratulations America! You succeeded in eroding your tourism dollars a little bit more...
That story has made every single foreign reader think twice before booking their next holiday to the Land Of The *Cough* Free.
Jeez, it must be awful hard work on your minister for tourism these past few years trying to entice potential visitors into the country. If i were a country in rapid economic decline, i'd be doing my utmost best to keep the foreign currency coming in, and the guests happy! She could have injected tens of thousands of foreign dollars into a fabled economy. At the moment America, you need all the tourist dollars you can get!
For every 'one' tourist that comes into your country, there's the potential for a further 20 referrals once the visitor returns home with fantastic stories of how great your country is. But that lady will now tell everyone she knows back home to never ever go to America, and inform them of the grossly unfair and outright rude treatment she received as a guest within the country. Congratulations America! You succeeded in eroding your tourism dollars a little bit more...
That story has made every single foreign reader think twice before booking their next holiday to the Land Of The *Cough* Free.
It scares the crud out of me. And it is only the beginning. Totally heartless.