Vaccines and SIDS
The Health and Wellness show on the SOTT Radio Network covers topics of health, diet, science, homeopathy, wellness culture, and more. Tune in weekly!

Running Time: 01:53:00

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Here's the transcript of the show:

Jonathan: Welcome to the Health and Wellness Show on the SOTT Radio Network. My name is Jonathan. I'll be your host today. Joining me in our virtual studio from all across the planet are Erica, Doug and Gaby. Unfortunately Tiffany's not going to be here with us today. She's busy with other engagements. We are having some issues with Blog Talk Radio today so if one of our co-hosts happens to drop in and out occasionally, we'll try our best to pick it up and keep the discussion going.

Today our topic is vaccines. It's going to be a hot one. More specifically we're going to be talking about the flu shot and we're going to do our best to present you some reasoned data and information. Because we're talking about vaccines, because it's a medical thing, I want to say something really quick and say that the views and opinions expressed in this episode are not intended to constitute medical advice. If you have questions we encourage you to do your own research and to consult your own healthcare practitioner before you make any medical decisions for yourself or your family. We just wanted to say that because we want to go through this and discuss it, tell you what we've found, but we are not trying to be your doctor. That's a choice you've got to make on your own.

Vaccines have been a hot topic lately. It's all over the web. It's all over the television. We're hearing a lot about the flu. We're hearing a lot about measles. So we wanted to cover this topic today and Doug is going to start off today by giving us a brief history of vaccinations, or maybe not so brief. We all have a lot stuff today, so we'll do our best to condense everything down. Doug, do you want to go ahead with that?

Doug: Yeah sure. And I will try to be brief, even though I've got pages and pages of news here. A lot of people credit Edward Jenner as the developer of the first vaccine. He created the smallpox vaccine back in 1796, but there's actually evidence from 700 to 1,000 years ago, the Chinese were experimenting with inoculation. They would powder different disease material and actually blow it up the nose of their patients as a snuff. Interesting to note though, that they actually abandoned the practice after find it as being ineffective, so that's pretty telling right there.

Edward Jenner in 1796 used material from cow pox pustules found to provide protection against smallpox. He is credited with the eradication of smallpox but despite this, in 1871 and '72 England, despite having 98% of the population aged between 2 and 50 vaccinated against smallpox, experienced its worst ever smallpox outbreak with 45,000 deaths. During the same period in Germany with a vaccination rate of 96% there were over 125,000 deaths from smallpox.

Then in 1885 Louis Pasteur created the rabies vaccine but much evidence has come to light lately, evidence of fraud and unethical science. This all surfaced when Pasteur's private notebooks became public. They only actually became public recently in 1995. They were tightly guarded before that and I think there's a reason behind it because it looks like he was a bit crazy.

Anti-toxins and vaccines against diphtheria, tetanus, anthrax, cholera, plague, typhoid, tuberculosis and more, were developed through the 1930's. In the 1940's Maurice Hillman developed multiple vaccines for a variety of diseases including the MMR vaccine, swine flu and hepatitis B.

In the middle of the 20th century methods for growing viruses in the laboratory led to rapid innovations, including the creation of vaccines for polio. Interesting fact: in 1977 Dr. Jonas Salk who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961; So again, quite telling.

Another interesting fact about the polio vaccine is that Europe experienced the same rise and decline in polio cases as were seen in the US, yet they never had a polio vaccine. Researchers targeted other common childhood diseases throughout the rest of the 20th century, including measles, mumps and rubella, developing the MMR vaccine. Vaccine research now is delving into RNA and new delivery methods. Some vaccine research is beginning to focus on non-infectious conditions such as addiction and allergies. So, don't be surprised if in the future they're trying to inoculate you against your insidious tobacco addiction.

There is an author by the name of, Tetyana Obukhanych. She has a PhD in immunology from Rockefeller University in New York and she's the author of a book called, The Vaccine Illusion-How Vaccinations Compromises Our Natural Immunity and What We Can Do to Regain Our Health. According to her the entire history of vaccination represents a sort of shortcut in the study of human immunity. Rather than study the natural human response to disease and learning from it, immunology instead studies an artificial process of immunization, the immune system's response to foreign injected matter.

Injection in itself harbours special dangers versus natural oral exposure to infection. Injection bypasses the vast majority of the body's immune system delivering an antigen straight into the bloodstream rather than mimicking how it would be exposed naturally, by breathing it in or through the digestive system or even skin contact. So it's an artificial process that bypasses that whole segment of the immune system.

The vaccination is trying to secure immunity without actually going through the disease process and as a result immunologic research has completely failed to get an understanding of naturally acquired immunity. Some people claim that the evidence for lifesaving effects specifically for the flu vaccine are clearly seen in the figures showing declining mortality in recent years. However flu mortality dropped dramatically and started to bottom out well before the vaccination became widespread.

This is what a lot of the pro-vaxors' rely on for their argument; "Well look at how vaccination has been so effective in eradicating these diseases". But vaccines have been historically introduced toward the end of epidemics when the disease progression curve is already showing a natural decline in the population. Go ahead.

Jonathan: I was just going to support what you said there. When we had been talking before the show we were looking at some graphs showing that it was basically sanitation and sewage control, right? That instituted a major decline in a lot of these diseases and that when you look at when the vaccines were introduced it was a lot later and the graph was already very low.

Doug: Yeah, exactly. Despite that fact they basically take the credit. It's also the natural growing immune response in the population. As people are exposed they might catch the illness, but they're naturally becoming resistant to it because that's what our immune systems do. Our immune systems are capable and better equipped, if left alone, to respond to these outbreaks naturally in most cases. There are obviously exceptions to this, but in a lot of cases if just left alone - especially for these relative benign childhood diseases - the immune system is capable of dealing with them on its own.

So, claims that vaccines have been responsible for the eradication of many diseases in the past hundred years including polio, smallpox, whooping cough and diphtheria are largely based on epidemic studies rather than on clinical evidence for effectiveness. Also many diseases that were once thought to be eradicated simply take on different forms and are given different names. For example, spinal meningitis and polio have almost identical symptoms and cases for spinal meningitis have increased since the decrease of polio cases. So, I thought that was very interesting right there, that a lot of the times these diseases aren't actually eradicated. They just go through a minor mutation so that we start calling it something else, but the idea that these vaccines are wiping these off the planet is questionable.

Just to finish off here, "Despite hundreds of years of research, there have never been any medical studies that clearly demonstrate that vaccines increase the immune system competence of the human body nor has there been any single medical study of the long-term effects of vaccines."

Jonathan: So when people want to argue the data and say if you don't get vaccinated or if you don't vaccinate your children, you're putting the 'herd' at risk, so to speak, what you're saying is there's not any actual data to back that up, not anything that's been studied long-term.

Doug: No, there's not. And I'm going to go more into herd immunity later in the show because that's a total fallacy in and of its self.

Jonathan: Yeah, we'll go more into that as we move forward here. We had some interesting points that Gaby was going to bring up. Gaby, are you with us?

Gaby: Yes I'm here. I'm having internet connection problems, but its working.

Jonathan: Well if we do happen to lose you we'll just try to pick it up. Gaby is going to talk to us a little bit about some interesting things around the nutritional deficit that's been coming about in the last hundred years with our population. We see an increase in illness. Now granted, we don't see 20,000, 80,000, or a 100,000 people in say London, or something like that, dying from the plague, but we do see this overall decrease in health. We see that everybody is much more susceptible. Looking at that from one point of view is looking at the advent of processed foods. There are a lot more materials that are harmful to the body in our diet. There's a lot more industrial toxins now than there used to be so things are knocking down everybody's immune system. Gaby has some really interesting points about earth changes and cometary events that may also tie into this picture of the decreasing health of our population and as well as percentages of the effectiveness of vaccines from the data. So Gaby do you want to go into that a little bit?

Gaby: Yeah, just to illustrate that point, for example, here in Spain we see the problems of Aragon. We're dealing with an unprecedented flu season. We're not even at its peak and there has been no space in the hospital for three or four consecutive weeks. Daily scheduled surgeries have to be cancelled just to give space to people. We send most people home and just hospitalize the ones that are very, very complicated or sick. Again we speculate that this is because as we have an increasing rate of cometary explosions or impacts during the last years that we have reported at

We have to keep in mind that bio-particles can attach to cometary debris. So as the comet dust loads the upper atmosphere, it can come down on to earth, so to speak, by earth changes such as storms, volcanoes, monsoons, but also cometary impact events. Researchers have compared numerous plagues throughout history which coincide with cometary bodies in our skies. We can speculate that even the Ebola outbreaks in Africa can be related to that.

That's just an interesting point to keep in mind because it's not only the nutrition of the population it's also the viral load and the virulence also increasing in the last years. That's just a note about that.

And as far as the flu goes, well believe it or not, the flu shot for this year has one of the highest rates of success with an abysmal 20% success rate reported by the CDC, which is the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention. This is from the US government. According to some records of the past for example...

Jonathan: Oh! We lost her. Well we'll work with that as we go. One of the things Gaby had mentioned is these cometary events being attached to outbreaks of plagues in the past and I realize that that is something that may be entirely new to people who might be listening to us right now, like "What do you mean, comets and plagues?" If you go to and just do a search for Black Death, you'll find a very interesting article there that Gaby had written about those connections. SOTT also has a lot of resources available tracking comet and meteor impacts over the last number of years and showing that it has been increasing, showing that we basically have a much larger number of near-earth objects that are showing up around the earth and that when these objects pass the earth there is this cometary dust and debris that gets trapped in our upper atmosphere. There's some data to show that viruses can be transported from other places in the solar system, even other places in the universe and basically deposited here.

So if that idea sounds crazy to you, just take some time to look it up. It's really, really fascinating. One of the first revelations I had about that was my mom always telling me don't go out in the rain because you're going to get sick. Then I was reading up on this material, it dawned on me, well yeah, the rain is bringing down these viral particles from the upper atmosphere so that might be one of the reasons, aside from the fact that there are toxins and stuff just from our planet and industry that's going on. But it's a really fascinating area, so I encourage everybody to check into that if you're unfamiliar with that.

It looks like Gaby might be back. Let's see. She was going to talk about the percentage of effectiveness of the vaccines this year. Gaby is that you?

Gaby: Yes, that's me. I'm sorry.

Jonathan: No problem.

Gaby: I was saying that 20% effectiveness for this year. I was going to say that a study published in Lancet in 2012 basically said that it was effective only in 1.5 out of 100 adults. That is, there was 98.5% chance it won't work. This is from the CDC government. Right! "Why are we recommending this flu shot again?!" They give it 16%, 14% and this year it's like 20% on average but 12% for certain age groups, like young adults for example.

According to researchers who monitor the rates that the CDC claims it's successful, it depends on the study cited. The vaccine efficacy really actually ranges from 0% to 12-14% at best. It's really like a total failure.

Jonathan: Yeah, that's not a very high rate. So those numbers are from the CDC themselves.

Gaby: That's right.

Jonathan: Well that being said, Erica had some information that we wanted to go through because when this conversation comes up, obviously it's a really hot topic right now. It's been on the news all over the place and I know that in my own experience when I talk to people, not everybody, but some people have the impulse to get verbally violent about this because it's about, 'You're endangering everyone else' and it's not like you do that for yourself, it's as though you were harming everyone else. So it's really hard to even talk about.

So in order to give you some more data to think about and to look up, Erica wanted to run through some of the ingredients that are in vaccines and we're specifically talking about the flu shot right now. Erica there was something else that you said too, about how you can actually get this list of ingredients from your practitioner. Is that correct?

Erica: Yes. Basically I was trying to take off on what Gaby was saying. There's information available out there. You just have to look for it. You can go to the CDC website and they have a list. It's called Vaccine Excipient and Media Summary and excipients included in US vaccines by the vaccine. It's a PDF file at the CDC website. They give you the ingredients that are in each vaccine so I wanted to cover that because aside from the virus, like Doug had shared, whatever it is - for this particular discussion, the flu virus - there's a list of really crazy ingredients. I'm just going to take this opportunity to share.

So the CDC gives this information out and you can go to their website and then depending on the state that you're in, if you decide to get the flu vaccine, you can request the ingredients that are in that particular vaccine. It's not like this information is hidden or not shared. It's available for people who want to look at it. It's some pretty toxic stuff.

So I'll just start off with 2-Phenoxyethanol, it's an anti-bacterial agent and they're using it now to replace the thimerosal, which we'll go into in a little bit, which is mercury and is considered a very toxic material that can cause many side effects including behavioural disorders, vomiting, diarrhoea, visual disturbances, convulsions, rapid heart rate increase. There's also aluminium in many forms; so aluminium phosphate, aluminium hydroxyl phosphate, sulfate, aluminium hydroxide. These work as an adjunct to stimulate your immune system's response to the virus in the vaccine.

Aluminum is a particularly dangerous neurotoxin. It has the ability to slip past your body's natural defences and enter your brain, potentially causing brain damage, Alzheimer's, dementia, convulsions and coma. Aluminium can even cause nerve death.

Then there's ammonium sulphate, a substance commonly added to pesticides. It's not known at this time if it's cancer-causing but it has been suspected of gastrointestinal, liver, nervous system and respiratory system toxicity. Also beta-propiolactone, a highly hazardous chemical on at least five federal regulatory lists causes: lymphomas after being injected into lab mice and its true effect on humans is not yet known.

Formaldehyde, also used as a preservative to stabilize the vaccine it's colourless, flammable, strong smelling and is mostly used in industry to manufacture building materials and produce many household products. It's also used to embalm dead bodies and it's suspected in weakening the immune system, causing neurological system damage and genetic damage, metabolic acidosis, circulatory shock, respiratory insufficiency and acute renal failure (the kidneys). It's been classified as a known human carcinogen and is ranked as one of the most hazardous compounds on at least eight federal regulatory lists.

Formalin, helps preserve the vaccine, kind of like the formaldehyde and it's a mixture of formaldehyde, menthol and water. It's mostly used to preserve tissue samples in health care laboratories and presents the same dangers to your health as formaldehyde does.

Monosodium glutamate, MSG, another excitotoxin, poisons your cells and tissues. It's used as a stabilizer in vaccines and it's also found in many processed foods as we discussed last week. It's shown to cause retinal degeneration, behavioural disorders, learning disabilities, reproductive disorders and even lesions of the brains of lab rats. Also, allergic reactions to MSG can be severe.

Another excipient is MRC5 cellular protein. It's a human diploid cell taken from aborted human foetuses. They're used as a culture to grow the live viruses. Also nonoxynol 9 is a vaginal spermicide and phenol is also included in vaccines to help stimulate an immune response and instead it does exactly the opposite by inhibiting phytogenic activity. Phytocytes are your body's first line of defence. They envelope and digest antigens and activate the other elements of your immune system.

Phenol is used in the production of drugs, weed killers and synthetic resins so you can imagine the effect on the human body and it's considered to be toxic to your cardiovascular, gastrointestinal, nervous, reproductive and respiratory systems - your liver, kidneys and skin.

There are also quite a few antibiotics in the vaccines. One of them is gentamicin sulphate. It's an antibiotic that can cause deafness or loss of equilibrium. It can also be highly nephrotoxic, meaning it can damage your kidneys and multiple doses accumulate over time. Another one is neomycin, it's another antibiotic that has multiple effects on your body and it is a neurotoxin. It also can cause respiratory paralysis, kidney damage and kidney failure. It also retards your vitamin B6 absorption, sometimes leading to mental retardation and epilepsy.

Another one is polymyxin B and it's got some nasty side effects as well; neurotoxicity and acute renal tubular necrosis, also the cause of kidney failure. In addition to that there's polysorbate 80, an emulsifier used in ice cream, milk products, vitamin tablets, lotions and creams and it's not as safe as it sounds. In a December issue of Annals of Allergy, Asthma and Immunology polysorbate 80 can affect your immune system and cause severe anaphylactic shock which can kill. It also causes cancer in animals.

And then just one more ingredient is the thimerosal, which is the hot topic of debate in the whole autism connection with vaccinations. Thimerosal is used as a preservative in the vaccines and it contains 49% mercury by weight and has been implicated in many health conditions such as cardiovascular disease, autism, seizures, mental retardation, hyperactivity and dyslexia. The mercury used is second in toxicity to the radioactive substance uranium so it's a powerful neurotoxin and can damage the entire nervous system of an infant in no time.

One more little nice ingredient is aluminium and it makes the mercury 100 times more toxic. So basically it's just a chemical cocktail. On the CDC website they warn of side effects of the flu vaccine and some of the things that may happen when you get the flu shot. It starts with mild problems, soreness, redness, swelling, where the shot is given, hoarseness, sore, red, itchy eyes, cough, fever, aches, headache, itching, fatigue. Then it goes on to list more moderate problems. So, saying that young children getting the flu vaccine are at increased risk for seizures caused by fever. Then severe problems as life-threatening reactions from vaccines are rare - this is the CDC remember. If they do occur it's usually within a few hours after the shots.

All that stuff is on their website, available for people to read and it's really frightening, truly.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Doug: Interesting because I was just looking through some of the SOTT archives and I found an article from 2009 that said that children who get the flu vaccine have three times the risk of hospitalization for flu.

Gaby: Yeah it's true. It's interesting because there's actually research showing it's actually much worse to vaccinate. Canadian mainstream media have reported it and also studies from New Zealand, Germany and Hong Kong. It is actually much worse to vaccinate. People end up with respiratory problems, infections such as tonsillitis as well. In general there is an increase in diseases, in how ill people get in the countries, just by vaccinating yourself.

Jonathan: I wonder if this is a good time to hear from the other side, so to speak. I had mentioned this to you guys before and this has been making the rounds on the internet. It's referred to as a blistering response from a scientist to the anti-vaccination people. I'll just read this shortly and I'll drop out the F-bombs and stuff. [Laughs] Somebody had posted a mean picture about the ingredients in vaccines and then saying to 'rethink vaccines'. So this person who is an immunologist responded and said:
"If you mixed mercury, aluminium phosphate, ammonium sulphate, formaldehyde and viruses and injected it into someone you'd kill them because you have no pharmacological experience. If someone in a lab mixes those things together, they know how they work. They have medically assessed and peer reviewed evidence and strict guidelines to follow to create a safe and effective product. Why is it legal? Because they know what they're doing and know how to spell phosphate and ammonium."
Granted that's kind of funny and cheeky [Laughter] but you can see that his argument is an emotional appeal. First of all, from my own point of view, knowing that someone is a scientist and looking at this list of ingredients, really for me it just gives me the impulse to ask them, "why are you using this stuff instead of researching natural ways to combat these illnesses?" It's not like illness is more powerful than the human race has ever been. It's this crazy thing that we've never seen before. People have been combating illnesses through natural means for many, many years.

Let me just continue on this. He says:
"You are single-handedly responsible for the skyrocketing resurgence of death caused by TB, measles and the worrying prospect of a return of smallpox."
He has a little breakdown here. He says:
"Mercury is an element in the compound thimerosal which is part of many vaccines. It has been claimed, with no tangible evidence other than a multi-faceted correlation, that thimerosals call autism. This has been investigated thoroughly and no causal link has been found."
Which I think is kind of interesting because what constitutes a causal link? He didn't really take the time to explain himself here or to cite any sources. When you look at the symptoms of mercury poisoning and the symptoms of autism that are expressed by autism, they are pretty much exactly the same. I think it's like a 99% correlation. And isn't that the same method which a doctor would use to diagnose something? He would look at his list of symptoms, look at the person and say, 'Oh they have this'. So you can look at somebody who's autistic, by and large, and say, 'Well it's certainly possible that they have mercury poisoning if you look at the list of symptoms'.

Now I'm not a physician, but that seems to me like a fairly reasonable conclusion, at least to be curious about the similarities. He also says:
"Aluminium phosphate is an aluminium salt which is used as an adjuvant in vaccines. An adjuvant is a compound which causes an immune response to be higher and stronger so that the immune system comes into contact with the attenuated virus more so that it can recognize the antigens of the virus and provide immunity. They are a necessary part of the vaccine if you want it to work well. Ammonium sulphate is used in the process of purifying the proteins and the synthesis of a vaccine. It is also found in bread and flour so you'd better learn to enjoy rice if you want to avoid it."
I thought that was funny because I want to avoid bread and flour anyway. So leave the ammonium sulphate on the shelf, for me personally. His last point here is:
"Formaldehyde is used in the treatment and purification of vaccines and stops contamination. Most of this is removed before the vaccine is shipped [most], although some of it remains."
So first of all, if formaldehyde stops contamination of the vaccine, what constitutes contamination? For me formaldehyde constitutes contamination. If some formaldehyde remains in the solution and they're telling you that, I personally would rather - this is just my own opinion - I would rather deal with the flu and be sick for a week and up my vitamin C, vitamin D, selenium, other things like that, and fight it on my own, than inject formaldehyde direction into my blood stream. That's my personal opinion on that!

But it's just funny to see that it's become such a hot topic for people and now even scientists are coming out and arguing these points, but when they make their arguments, they don't make any common sense, at least to me they don't. I don't know if you guys want to weigh in on that. Maybe, considering I've never worked in a lab, so I have to say that I'm not a scientist, but if I use my head, this doesn't make sense to me and I would love to have a scientist sit down and explain how by injecting aluminium phosphate, ammonium sulphate and formaldehyde into my blood stream it's going to help me get better. I don't understand that.

Erica: In addition to the antibiotics that are put into these vaccines to, "eliminate stray bacteria found in the mixture". And as we know, or maybe not, antibiotics wipe out beneficial gut bacteria and lower your immune system and even cause an overgrowth of Candida. So, all those kinds of cocktail effects are happening. Like you said, instead of actually just getting the flu with a headache or sore throat and spending a day or two in bed to recuperate, you're inundating the body with all these things and just from that ingredient list, just the neurological effects alone, and then all the effect on the immune system, it would appear that the flu vaccine in this particular case, and other vaccines, really just break down your immune system making you more susceptible...

Jonathan: Doug, go ahead.

Doug: I was just going to say, there are a couple of things that he says there that make me question what he's talking about. Him saying that ammonium sulphate that's found in bread and things like that, there's a big difference between taking something in orally and eating it, allowing your body to identify it, decide what should be done with it, maybe even being able to eliminate it without actually absorbing it, versus having it injected straight into the blood stream. So that right there is questionable in his whole argument. And his big emotional appeal of the idea that this person is single-handedly responsible for the rise of these formerly eradicated diseases is completely fallacious. That gets into the whole herd immunity question, which I'll go into later. But you're very much right that it is just kind of an appeal to emotion, the whole thing.

Jonathan: Totally. That's one of the last lines of this little blurb here. He says, "Vaccinate your kids if you want them to live. If you don't then you clearly don't love your kids and would prefer to see them die of completely preventable diseases."

Gaby: Oh, god!

Jonathan: So I think that leads in well to saying, "Vaccinate your kids if you want them to live"; Gaby has some stats here that we were talking about before the show of just the increase in deaths and illnesses that immediately follow vaccinations. Gaby you said you had a bunch of notes with you. Do you want to take a little while to go over that?

Gaby: Yeah. Now that you just mentioned kids, this is what gets me very angry because they recommend vaccinations to the most vulnerable people. For example, Professor Boyd Haley from the University of Kentucky uses the analogy - he studies mercury - and he says that a single vaccine given to a 6 pound newborn which contains thimerosal is the equivalent of giving a 180 pound adult 30 vaccinations on the same day! That's just a single vaccine. There are several of them.

Then speaking of mercury, the amount of mercury in a multi-dose flu shot is 250 times higher in mercury that what is legally classified as a target weight. This is what we're injecting into people. The risk for example, of developing Alzheimer's disease if you get five consecutive flu shots is 10 times higher than if you get one, two or no shots. This is especially for the elderly because after a certain age they recommend the elderly get a flu shot every single year, so aluminium and mercury get accumulated and this is exactly what defines at a microscopic level when they examine tissues, the diagnostic of Alzheimer's disease is called neurofibrillary tangles and it's what happens when you accumulate mercury and aluminium long-term in the tissue as well. So right there is a direct correlation.

But speaking of the US government website again, there is a website called Vaccine Adverse Event Report System. While checking the data in mid-January, a couple of weeks ago or so, since its inception over 330 deaths have been reported caused by the flu vaccine. Over 100,000 adverse events have been reported. This should be realistically increased tenfold or 100 times due to under-reporting because physicians are not encouraged to report adverse events. Nobody is for that matter.

Jonathan: Right. What constitutes an adverse event? Does that mean that somebody expressed flu symptoms or something worse?

Gaby: They can be something worse, for example a previous disability. It can be an allergic reaction, one that is very strongly correlated with the flu shots is narcolepsy, and people are groggy, sleepy, but also complex neurological syndromes such as Guillain-Barre syndrome which is a paralysis. Your legs become paralyzed, the muscles become paralyzed and when it reaches your respiratory muscles you have to be connected to a machine. You get the idea. The rate of miscarriages, by the way, among pregnant women who received flu vaccines during 2009 and 2010 increased 4,250%!

Jonathan: Wow!

Gaby: The population are basically guinea pigs for all these lists of ingredients, the cocktail that Erica just listed, because most of the adverse events or the toxicity is reported for each individual ingredient and we don't know what the whole cocktail synergistically causes. We're seeing the result. We the population are the guinea pigs, that is the end result.

Jonathan: Yeah. And we do see a lot of really crazy effects coming about. Doug, you had mentioned something called the MTHFR mutation. Can you go into that for a minute?

Doug: Yeah. It's a certain genetic mutation that's been discovered since scientists have been looking more into the human genome. It's a certain mutation that interferes with methylation which in turn interferes with all sorts of different detox pathways. So I was speculating about the way you see these extreme adverse reactions in some of the population but not necessarily all of them. That's a pretty convenient way for these things to be dismissed outright, especially the whole autism connection. But it's entirely possible that people who have this MTHFR mutation, which primarily interferes with the body's ability to take folic acid and convert it to the folate that it need to use.

Anybody who has this sort of mutation might be much more vulnerable to having these sorts of toxins injected directly into their blood. It may be that these are, 'the canaries in the coal mine' that are having these strong adverse reactions to exposures to these toxins.

Jonathan: Right. And certainly if we're speculating about connections to mutations and other things, I think that something that we don't necessarily need to even speculate about is, as we mentioned earlier, the nutritional deficit in the population across the world; leaking radiation all the way from the nuclear experiments that happened through the '50s, in to Chernobyl, and to now Fukushima. We see that getting into the food supply, the air supply, the water supply, industrial toxins, and then people eating processed foods that are basically a few molecules away from plastic for decades, it's not a wonder that you have all of these things hammering, hammering, hammering on your body and then you go ahead and get this shot which is this cocktail of chemicals that maybe if you were a perfectly healthy person, it wouldn't do anything to you. But now - and I'm just saying maybe in that case - now we can totally expect that it's going to knock people down.

I've seen other accounts from natural practitioners that are effectively diagnosing vaccines - whether it's a flu shot or any other shot that they got, for measles, smallpox, other things - that resulted in the degradation of their joints, bones, causing conditions that resemble MS. Doug I think you mentioned meningitis. That's very close to the symptoms of polio. Gaby mentioned Guillain-Barre syndrome, which is also very similar to the symptoms of polio. I start to wonder, 'I thought we cured polio?' But it really seems like it's around.

Gaby: Yeah. You mentioned these are natural practitioners reporting this, and I even know mainstream medical doctors, like rheumatologists who are against the flu vaccines just because of his experience. Every time one of his patients with an autoimmune disease gets the flu shot, the person has such a relapse in his disease that he basically says, "Okay, no more flu shots for anybody".

Erica: The bottom line is that it's not working! There's a website called: Alliance For Natural Health and they do a really good job on a lot of health and wellness topics. But in December of 2014 they came out with this article; "This Year's Flu Shot is a Dud Says the Government" and Any Discussion of Natural Alternatives Is Not Allowed". They go on to say, that an NBC report shows that people who get vaccinated each year may actually have less protection than those who don't. A University of Michigan study found that people vaccinated two years in a row didn't seem protected against the flue at all.

Blumberg recently reported that the Novartis flu vaccine was linked to one serious illness and three deaths in Italy and the country has suspended the use of the vaccine. So it's not even working. The Alliance for Natural Health had another article, February of 2014 about how the CDC is caught red-handed exaggerating flu cases and deaths. So it's this scare tactic that you've got to get the vaccine and it's not.... (sound cut out)

Jonathan: Oh, I think we lost Erica there.

Gaby: Well with what Erica was talking about, the effects, I wanted to contrast that with no deaths reported from vitamins, absolutely none. We published an article recently covering 30 years of supplement safety confirmed by America's largest database, the American Association of Poison Control Centre, showed no deaths from multiple vitamins, including A, B, C, D, E - no vitamin whatsoever caused any adverse event and yet people are encouraged to report them.

Jonathan: I think that this leads pretty well into our discussion before the show and Doug had mentioned that he wanted to go into 'herd immunity'. Do you want to cover that for a little while? I think it's really interesting that herd immunity is brought up as the main point for people to get vaccinated, which is, "You're going to damage the rest of us". But there's a lot of interesting details on that.

Doug: It ties in nicely with that rant that the scientist you mentioned earlier went on saying, "You are responsible for the rise in all these previously eradicated diseases". So just to give an idea, 'herd immunity' is the idea that if a high percentage of the population is vaccinated, that their immunity will curb the spread of the disease and protect those who are ineligible for vaccinations, like infants, the aged, and individuals who are taking an immunosuppressive medication. Those who don't vaccinate are blamed for these outbreaks. Compliance with mass vaccination is sold as the answer to preventing these epidemics.

But realistically that's a pretty silly idea, even on the surface because if vaccines work as they're purported to, an unvaccinated person should pose no threat to one who is vaccinated. That's simple logic, right? If vaccines are doing their job, then you really have nothing to fear from these people who are not vaccinated. But the idea that unvaccinated children pose a threat to the rest of the vaccinated population is spread and used as social pressure to force compliance to guilt people into getting the vaccine, even if they're sceptical.

So herd immunity is entirely theoretical. There's little-to-no actual evidence of it working in the field. It's actually an epidemiological construct, not an immunologic idea. So it's not immunologists who came up with this idea, it's the epidemiologists who have spread this idea. Even if it does work, it's been shown to work in a very limited time period and it's quite likely that those who carry a natural immunity, who are exposed naturally to the wild virus, are actually carrying the bulk of the immunity to the rest of the population, not people who have been vaccinated.

I have a couple of examples here. In 1967 the United States Public Health Service announced that it was intending to eradicate measles through the use of mass vaccinations. Despite widespread compliance, the epidemic did not stop. They still had an epidemic. In 1970 there was a mass vaccination campaign in Wyoming against rubella, in order to stop an anticipated epidemic, but ironically nine months after this local vaccination campaign, an outbreak of rubella hit Casper, Wyoming. The herd immunity effect did not materialize and the outbreak involved over 1,000 cases and it reached several pregnant women, pregnant women being some of the most vulnerable to the rubella virus.

There was a study by Poland and Jacobson in 1994 that report 18 different measles outbreaks throughout North America occurring in school populations with very high vaccination coverage. 71% to 99.8% of these students were vaccinated. Vaccinated children represented 30 to 100% of the measles cases. So right there, that draws into question this idea of herd immunity, that just by getting vaccinated somehow you're protecting the rest of the population.

Genetic variability seems to play a role, so how efficiently antigens are presented to the immune system for antibody production. Each individual is going to vary in how well their immune system does that and actually presents these antigens. This variability might have something to do with the way the virus is introduced, through injection rather than through oral means, where the immune system can actually respond to it. It's important to point out that the re-vaccination of poor responders doesn't work. Poor responders remain poor responders to further vaccinations and they can't contribute to herd immunity just by getting the vaccination over and over and over again.

The proportion of vaccinated and non-immune young adults is now growing while the proportion of older immune populations who acquired immunity through natural exposure to a wild virus is diminishing due to old age. So over time, mass vaccination makes us lose, rather than gain cumulative immunity in the adult population. So by relying on this false introduction of the virus, which doesn't work as well as natural introduction to the virus, we are actually making ourselves more susceptible to these things, which is probably attributed to the reason that you're seeing a rise in these diseases that were previously thought to be eradicated.

In 2011 there was a measles outbreak in Quebec, despite the fact that there was a 95-97% compliance rate in vaccinations. So, almost the entire population was vaccinated. The authorities at the time didn't implement quarantine procedures, likely because they assumed the herd immunity would take effect. So here we see this whole idea of herd immunity is actually quite dangerous because people aren't relying on other means of stopping the spread of the disease because they are assuming that the herd immunity will just kick in.

There was a full-blown outbreak including 600 cases and that's a low estimate considering the fact that these things tend to be under-reported. It was imported by a teacher after spring break who was himself vaccinated. 50% of the cases were in people who were twice vaccinated and all these figures don't include the modified course of the disease where they don't get the exact symptoms that constitute the measles. They get something slightly different so they don't get reported. So the numbers are actually probably quite higher.

It's assumed that vaccinated individuals, even if they do contract the disease, do not actually transmit it to others, but this is in fact false. Proponents of this idea often cite a journal article that was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association and it had the title, "Failure of Vaccinated Children to Transmit Measles" which is quite leading right there. But a careful examination of the actual design of the study reveals that it didn't properly address the question it purported to address - whether vaccinated children who get infected during the outbreak can or cannot transmit the virus. What the study actually did show is that both vaccinated and unvaccinated children didn't pass the virus on to their younger siblings.

This is pretty common in studies when the authors don't get the results that they're looking for. They will often title the study and write the abstract in such a way that it makes it sound like they did get that result and that's good enough for the media who don't actually read the entire study, so they spread that around. There's a new study out recently that vaccinated individuals not only can become infected with measles but can spread it to others who are also vaccinated against it. It doubly disproves that two doses of the MMR vaccine is 99% effective, as widely claimed. It's found in the Journal of Clinical Infectious Disease, I believe in 2013. It reports that a twice-vaccinated individual from New York City measles outbreak was found to have transmitted the measles to four of her contacts, two of which themselves had received two doses of the MMR vaccine and a prior presumably protective measles IGG antibodies.

So, this whole thing about herd immunity is a nice theory, but it really doesn't seem to play out in actual fact.

Jonathan: Well, that's really interesting. I think it would do for everyone to look into that more, especially to look up those details so that you have that information at hand when you're talking to other people and they're presenting moral arguments about this stuff and about how you're putting other people in danger, that it's actually not the case.

Doug: Yeah, exactly.

Erica: I will say...

Jonathan: Oh yeah, go ahead.

Erica: In relation to what Doug was just addressing, if you do have a child in school and they are unvaccinated, when an epidemic breaks out like measles, your child is not allowed to attend school and that's mandatory. So, it's a lot of fear tactics as well. Parents are just so overwhelmed by the debate and if any parents are listening and need some guidance on how to address these issues and just have a little bit of knowledge and not be scared into getting things that they may not feel comfortable with, I recommend reading on the page, America the Vaxxer Nation, an article that I put together specifically for parents who are on the fence. They know that there may be something wrong but they don't have the data. It's basically a list of information from several articles that were carried on over the past five or six years that gives more information about what we're sharing today and highlights what everybody's been saying here.

As the parent of a young child, you still currently, right now today, have the option to opt out. That could change any time and Dr. Mercola talks a lot about that on his website; but not to be afraid as a parent and be swayed because the school is going to give you a hard time if your child is not vaccinated, but to persist with the research and make a decision for yourself and for your child.

Doug: The social pressures make the decision so difficult. If people could just clear-headedly look at the data, they would probably reach a conclusion fairly easily. But it's the fact that there is so much of this conditioning and this emotional response to it, that the whole idea that anti-vaxxers' are painted as these quacks. It's like they're portrayed as being stupid, that they easily succumb to these emotional arguments and things like that when in fact, it's really the opposite most of the time the anti-vaxxers are the ones who are better informed.

It's so backward and very difficult to navigate for that reason.

Jonathan: Right.

Erica: And it's a personal decision. It's kind of like our discussion last week about not eating wheat. It's a personal decision and that's your right, to make those decisions. And yet there seems to be this concern that, "Oh, if you don't vaccinate your child, you're endangering everybody else's child" which just seems ludicrous. And as you say, it's a very hotly debated topic, even more so now than it was 10 years ago.

And for me, as a school teacher for many years, it's again having that knowledge and really affecting peoples' choice whether they're for or against it and then if you are against it, personally I've found you just use the religious exemption and that tends to cut the discussion pretty quick. "It's my religious choice that I choose not to do it", instead of trying to have the conversation of the back and forth where people are genuinely misinformed.

Gaby: A sign of the times.

Doug: Yeah.

Gaby: Sorry Jonathan. I was just going to say that it is crazy because of what we have covered in the last hour; I don't know why there is a debate to begin with. It's just crazy to get the shot! It's hysteria.

Jonathan: Yeah. That leads into some quotes here from, Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski. If you've never read that book, I highly recommend it. Just go to Amazon and look it up. You'll find it there. It's a really fascinating book about evil in power and psychopathy in power and how it radiates down through the levels of society. One of the things that Lobaczewski covers is this topic of hysterization. I just have a couple of paragraphs here, starting on page 175 of the book he says:
"When perusing the scientific or literary descriptions of hysterical phenomena, such as those dating from the last great increase in hysteria in Europe encompassing the quarter century preceding World War I, a non-specialist may gain the impression that this was endemic to individual cases, particularly among women. The contagious nature of hysterical states however had already been discovered and described by Jean-Martin Charcot. It is practically impossible for hysteria to manifest itself as a mere individual phenomenon since it is contagious by means of psychological resonance, identification and imitation.

Each human being has a predisposition for this malformation of the personality, albeit to varying degrees although it is normally overcome by rearing and self-rearing, which are amenable to correct thinking and emotional self-discipline. During "happy times of peace" dependent upon social injustice, children of the privileged classes learn to repress from their field of consciousness the uncomfortable ideas, suggesting that they and their parents are benefiting from injustice against others. Such young people learn to disqualify, disparage the moral and mental values of anyone whose work they are using to over advantage.

Young minds thus ingest habits of subconscious selection and substitution of data which leads to a hysterical conversion economy of reasoning. They grow up to be somewhat hysterical adults who, by means of the ways adduced above, thereupon transmit their hysteria to the next generation which then develops these characteristics to an even greater degree.

The hysterical patterns for experience and behaviour grow and spread downwards from the privileged classes until crossing the boundary of the first criterion of ponerology, the atrophy of natural critical faculties with respect to pathological individuals. When the habits of subconscious selection and substitution of thought data spread to the macrosocial level, a society tends to develop contempt for factual criticism and to humiliate anyone sounding an alarm. Contempt is also shown for other nations which have maintained normal thought patterns and for their opinions. Egotistic though terrorization is accomplished by the society itself and its processes of conversive thinking. This obviates the need for censorship of the press, theatre or broadcasting as pathologically hypersensitive censors lie within the citizens themselves."
I know that was kind of a mouthful, but if you read the book you'll get a better idea for it. He explains how this process of hysterization is passed down through generations and in order to maintain a system of control, the hysterization needs to be maintained in itself. So as he said, a society tends to develop contempt for factual criticism and to humiliate anyone who might sound an alarm, which I think, is happening in the world of vaccines right now.

Doug: Absolutely.

Gaby: Yeah, I have a perfect example of that. We have all heard about Andrew Wakefield, who has been probably the most blamed doctor for any mistrust in the MMR vaccine. He published a study linking MMR vaccines with autism and bowel disease and his reputation was shot. He dared to speak the truth and they accused him of the very things they were doing, conflict of interest, crimes against humanity. Fast forward to last year and we have a CDC whistleblower, Dr. William Thompson is his name I think, and he basically confesses that yes, he participated in CDC research and they were responsible for cooking up data because there was a 300% increase in autism in African Americans that were given the MMR vaccine and they hid the data.

So Andrew Wakefield has now been vindicated, a little bit too late.

Doug: Although he's been vindicated in the alternative press because that's come to light, still in the mainstream he's considered the devil.

Gaby: Yeah, that's true.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Erica: After Thompson's revelations, a CBS news poll showed the public approval rating of the CDC declined to 37%, down from 60% the previous year. Thompson's whistle blowing received over 750 million Twitter impressions indicating that the vaccine efficacy and safety is really on peoples' minds.

Doug: Yeah, the word is spreading.

Jonathan: I think that's an important point. I do think it's important for us to not allow ourselves to be split into camps, where we're the smart ones and those people over there are the dumb ones and then they think that they're the smart ones and we're the dumb ones. That leads nowhere. I think what's really important is when people ask you questions about it, tell them the information that you found and don't be derogatory. Don't mock them. Don't make fun of them because of what you think about their position. It's very important to just sit down with the attitude of, "Hey, I'm concerned about this. This is what I've found. I want to share this with you." If you get into a discussion and they start screaming their head off, well then you see where that's going to go.

But at least I think it's very important for people who want to communicate this information to other people to be reasoned, to be diplomatic, to be very calm. Personally I see a lot of all-out brawls and arguments erupt over this topic and it all could have been avoided if everybody could just calm down and have a conversation. There's a lot of points to support the point of view that vaccines are harmful, like we've been going over the last hour, but I think one of the main points, if somebody does want to appeal to authority and they say, "I'm going to do this because the authorities told me to", Gaby, you had mentioned that there are mainstream organizations now that are opposing mandatory vaccinations.

Gaby: Yes. I have a special message for all authoritarian followers enforcing vaccines. Employees and vegan groups oppose mandatory flu shots, including the American Medical Association. These are big authorities, with major medicines and they oppose mandatory flu vaccination. The American Medical Association, with over 200,000 members and the Association of American Physicians and Surgeons who specifically, "object strenuously to any coercion of any healthcare personnel to receive influenza immunization. It is a fundamental human right not to be subjected to medical interventions without fully informed consent." This is their statement. I'm reading literally.

There are several other groups, including the American Federation of Teachers. These are all major groups. So that thing about having flu vaccines and forcing employees really doesn't have to be. Nobody should lose their job over refusing a flu vaccine.

Jonathan: Right. Much less die. I'm not a statist or anything, but think that it's just a little bit reassuring that there are still some people in the organizations of government who don't want to force this on people. I know that there are a lot who are. There are a lot of pathological individuals in power who would just as soon tell you exactly what to do and throw you in jail if you didn't do it. I guess I'm still holding out a little bit of hope that there's a few good ones left.

But it's very interesting. There was a USA Today columnist that just recently called for, "anti-vax parents to be jailed". He said that parents who do not vaccinate their children should go to jail. That's a direct quote. That's what he said.

Gaby: These people are crazy!

Jonathan: Yeah. That's coming out of the media and I want to tell this guy, "Your government doesn't even want to jail people for this, yet anyway. Maybe some people do, but even the AMA is coming out and saying, "Hey, whoa! We don't think people should be forced to do this." Maybe that's propaganda from the AMA, but that is what they're saying; propaganda in the sense that maybe they're trying to deceive us and do a sneak around back, but here it is, published information that they're saying, "No, we don't think people should be forced to be vaccinated."

So it's almost like what Lobaczewski said about the trickle down effect of this hysteria, that it's the people in the general population who are so hysterical about this and who are ready to jail people who disagree with them. It's just incredible. It's unbelievable.

Erica: There was a similar article on SOTT about what you're stating Jonathan, called Vaccine Wars: Penalizing the Unvaccinated. It makes a really good point. Big Pharma, not activists, are responsible for the growing mistrust of vaccines. The debate isn't ultimately about the science of vaccines but rather lack of trust of those charged with producing, monitoring the safety of and distributing vaccines, because it's big business. He says, "The false narrative of science versus conspiracy theories is peddled by the media, the government and the corporations that hold influence over both because the narrative focusing on the wisdom of entrusting criminals and mass murderers with our health is an open and shut case."

So just what you were saying, again going after a person who's exercising their right and asking questions, is ridiculed.

Jonathan: Yeah, totally. One of my own viewpoints - and this is a personal thing, but it's just something based on research that I've found - the company who manufactured and distributes thimerosal is Eli Lilly and Company and they have a lot of shady history, but just the simple fact that they manufactured and distributed Prozac, to me is like, "I don't trust you". Because I think Prozac was one of the most damaging things to the mental health of this country that we've ever seen. So it's like, "No, I'm not going to take one of your other products and inject it into me! No!"

So if you're curious about the history of Eli Lilly and Company, just go ahead and do a Google search on that and you'll find some interesting things. Maybe we can cover that in more detail on a future show.

I think right now we're coming up on our time to do our pet health segment and we are very exited that we actually have Zoya with us in the virtual studio today. We don't have to play a pre-recorded segment. Hi Zoya, are you there?

Zoya: Yeah.

Jonathan: Hi.

Zoya: Can you hear me?

Jonathan: I can hear you.

Gaby: Yes, we can hear you.

Jonathan: Let's go ahead and get you played in here. [Meows and music] [Laughter] So what do you have to cover today?

Zoya: Alright. First of all the situation for pets is unfortunately also dire regarding vaccines. It's not worth it. For example in our case we get some fundamental childhood shots or vaccines we get only once in our life. But in the case of animals, they get annual vaccinations. So this situation is even worse.

Today we are indeed going to talk about vaccinations and since it's a very broad and problematic topic we'll take more than one short segment to explain why animal vaccinations are dangerous and unnecessary. Some veterinarians even claim that we shouldn't vaccinate our pets even once, that even one so-called puppy shot may jeopardize the health of our pets and trigger an autoimmune disease.

But since it's a big topic, let's take it step by step. First of all let me share a story with you from my favourite natural veterinarian, Dr. Karen Becker. She shared this story from the time when she was in veterinary school. It's a bit different system for me. I study, as I already mentioned, in an east European school and it's a bit different than the US. So she said that one of the things that were mandatory for every student was to receive rabies vaccination before starting to study. She said that it's actually mandatory. For us, luckily it's not mandatory so we were able to avoid it.

So she said something like this: she said, that because she was already an activist for the preservation of wild animals, she was told that she could do a titer, to basically measure the amount of antibodies in her system, to check the amount of rabies antibodies to see if this vaccine is necessary for her. The minimum amount of antibodies is no less than 50. And she had 100 times more than this when she did the test. And she took this rabies vaccine years before she was admitted to the veterinary school. She was told that it was mandatory for her to take this rabies vaccination again. So she wondered, and that's what other more conscientious veterinarians are wondering - why we as humans take major vaccinations, core vaccinations, in our childhood only once but for pets they are forced to take those vaccines annually, year after year. Something is really wrong here because our physiology is basically the same. There are some minor changes, but it's the same. So, what's going on here.

It turns out that, like with human vaccines, it's a big business. It's a big money making business where veterinarians are using fear. They send those cards to the customers, "Hurry up you have only seven days before your annual vaccination. It's very important that you come in and do it on time." And most of the people are not aware of how the things work and they are even less aware how the immune system works and why it's really unnecessary.

So right now we are going to talk about that, what you can and should do regarding vaccinations for pets and what you can ask your veterinarian to do before your pet is submitted for another annual vaccination.

What is the worst danger of vaccines for pets? What happens regarding vaccines? They can trigger an autoimmune disease. They can jeopardize the health of the pet. It's the same as for humans, it can lessen the immune system, trigger all kinds of diseases, skin diseases, heart diseases, every predisposition the pet may have, and they can trigger such problems. What is important to remember is that there are core vaccines and there are non-core vaccines.

For example there are core vaccines for dogs which are; distemper, parvo, adenovirus and of course rabies. And for kittens it's; panleukopenia, calicivirus, herpes virus and also rabies. Basically accepted right now, the less damaging protocol for pets is that your puppy or your kitten gets the puppy shots until three or four months of age before the change of the teeth. Then you should wait a bit and then your veterinarian usually will ask you to do another shot, but instead of coming for another shot, you should ask your veterinarian for a titer test because you should check first of all if this vaccine was able to immunize your pet because there are some vaccines where you can get the shot but there won't be any immune response. So you got shots for your pet for nothing and you need to vaccinate again.

So you can check the titer and if there are already antibodies produced, there is really no need to vaccinate again. Then next time if for example, the veterinarian will say to you that you need to come again for an annual re-vaccination, you can say to him that according to new regulations - there is some American association, something that has to do with the vaccines - that according to new regulations you can come after three years and then even less, to re-vaccinate, but even in this case you should ask for a titer test again and see if there was any change in the number of antibodies because if there was no change or maybe even a bit lesser number, you still don't really need to re-vaccinate again. It just causes additional damage.

For example, you have an indoor kitten that never comes into contact with other outdoor cats, in this case you don't even have to vaccinate those for vaccines, but only with panleukopenia. The last dose should be at 14 to 16 weeks because by the time the kitten will no longer have the protection passed from the mother cat. This is another big issue. In the past, until the'70s or something like this, they were doing another test that was testing maternally passed antibodies that were passed to puppies and kittens from the mother. Then they were able to determine the exact time of vaccination by the lessening amount of maternal antibodies and also to see if and when it was necessary to vaccinate at all.

There was a so-called nomograph for puppies to determine if they could be effectively vaccinated. So this is one of the things that they're not doing anymore. It takes time and basically it prevents veterinarians from getting his or her money for the vaccination. So in order to build up the business, to make the business more effective, they remove this option and I'm sure many veterinarians are not even aware of this option, that they can check both maternal antibodies and also antibodies after vaccination to check the titer test, to see if there is any need at all to revaccinate because really, they call it an annual booster. I'll leave the explanation of the immune system and what exactly happens in the immune system whenever vaccine is entered and also reactions, for the next segment.

I will only say that whenever any antigen is entering the body, not only antibodies are created but also memory cells that the immune system remembers. It remembers the pathogen. It remembers the danger. So it can react again. There is no need for any booster to remind it of the danger. You can say that it has the memory of an elephant. It's a memory for life.

It's frustrating because it's the biggest lie there is and one of the things that I remember one of the teachers here saying to me is that he has a friend who is also a veterinarian who specializes in dermatology. He said that dermatology is the best field there is in veterinary science because the patients are always coming back. They will never get over those diseases and you just lessen the problem a bit with steroids and stuff but then again, the immune system is a bit compromised and then all the skin problems are triggered again. He said that that's like a gold mine, basically.

Well to give you an example of veterinarians that are not exactly ethical, so to say. You could say that many of them are benefiting from the racket that vaccines are, but they are not really aware - or maybe they are aware of - that vaccines are basically the major trigger for all of those diseases. They're a trigger for all the allergies, all the immune diseases and skins diseases, as I said before. So it's not surprising that the fewer breeds the dog is, for example mutts, are able to handle vaccinations and other problems more easily. But the fewer the breeds, the more problems they have. And why, because they already have predisposition for their breed; all kinds of predispositions like heart disease, kidney disease, breathing disease.

So these are just made worse or actually being activated by the vaccines. So the puppy that could live happily without any disease being triggered, now his system is being compromised by the vaccines and there is this cascade effect that jeopardizes everything. For this segment, it's a bit general, but next time we will talk about vaccines and I'll make sure I explain more about the immune system and what exactly happens and why some of the veterinarians, for example veterinarians that accept the possibility of the first puppy shots and that's it.

For now, the important message that you should take home with you and to your veterinarian is that if you have a puppy, then there are some legal regulations, like rabies. There is no way around it, no place that exists at all, that you have to vaccinate rabies. So okay, you have no choice to vaccinate for rabies. Whatever is the law, you have no choice. You have to vaccinate.

There are some places where rabies is mandatory every year, annually. Some veterinarians say, "You can't break the law, but you don't have to vaccinate for rabies annually. If you can, avoid it." But regarding other vaccinations, with distemper and parvo virus, it's a real danger. I myself saw dogs almost dying and some died from parvo virus, so it's a very serious disease. If your dog comes in contact with other dogs, it's very contagious so maybe it's probably for the best to vaccinate for those core vaccines. With kitten, as I said before panleukopenia is a feline parvo virus.

Panleukopenia is a parvo for kittens. So even if the cat doesn't go outside, panleukopenia is a must. But with the other vaccines, you don't have to.

For example, here in east Europe in the country where I reside, if your pet doesn't leave the house, even rabies is not mandatory. So you should check in the country where you live, if you can just avoid it in this case. But then if you have a grown-up dog or cat and you know that you've already vaccinated and you get those flu reminders from your veterinarian that you should come and vaccinate, 'Okay, come for a general check up but ask the doctor if they can do a titer test to check the level of antibodies for those specific viruses that are contained in core vaccines and see his reaction.' Some countries don't do it. For example here, we don't do it, unfortunately, but in European countries in the west I think they will be able to do it.

And as for other non-core vaccinations, like leukaemia vaccine for cats, or other vaccinations, don't touch it at all. Don't agree to it. This is much worse than the core vaccines. Core vaccines are much better because they are checked and re-checked again and again and one of the good things for veterinary science - at least this is what one of the main immunologists in the USA said - vaccines for pets don't contain mercury and I'm not sure about aluminium, but he said that it's mostly for humans.

So in this case humans are disadvantaged because apparently the vaccination field for pets is more advanced than human, or at least this is what they say.

Jonathan: It does seem that way. Even in the United States there are laws against injecting mercury into animals, either farm animals or pets.

Zoya: Yes. Mercury is already outlawed and it was actually once also used to treat all kinds of diseases in cattle but now it's also outlawed. Formaldehyde, for example, is used to treat specific poisons in cattle but it's because they have very specific physiology because of their four stomachs. So that's something very specific. So I think that for the topic for vaccines for this week, I hope it was interesting and informative enough. If you have any questions you can always ask and I can cover it in later shows about vaccines.

Jonathan: That was really great. It was really informative. Thank you very much for that. I'm sorry if I interrupted you there.

Zoya: No problem. It's just that I also received another question from a listener. Do I have the time still to cover it?

Jonathan: Certainly, yeah.

Zoya: Okay. The listener asks the question like this; "I have a little Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who turns around in a circle at least 22 times before finally squatting to pee. Why is he turning and why so many times?" First of all, in specific instances like this, it's better not to give advice without actually seeing the animal because there could be a lot reasons for it. But when it comes to Cavaliers, they are very, very cute puppies but they also have a lot of predispositions to various health problems; heart problems like mitral valve disease that can lead to heart failure. They have something called syringomyelia. They also have hip dysplasia, all kinds of problems. But in this particular case, if I were to speculate, they have hereditary eye issues and also they have typical for other spaniels as well, ear problems that are also connected to central nervous system problems or coordination centres.

So, it's possible without seeing the puppy, I can speculate that maybe the puppy doesn't see well or maybe there is some problem with the ears that affects the coordination centre. And this is why he turns and turns and turns to find the proper place. It seems to us that dogs and cats are just sitting and doing their thing. But not long ago there was an article - I don't know if you saw it on SOTT - regarding the fact that dogs pee and do other business in accordance with electromagnetic fields that they basically squat to the electromagnetic centre or to the north. So I can assure you that it's not an easy business. Can you hear me?

Jonathan: Yes. We can hear you fine. Thank you very much for addressing that question.

Zoya: Yeah.

Jonathan: I think we are coming up towards the end of our time here and if you don't mine, I wanted to take a little bit of time with Doug to have him cover some alternative homeopathic flu treatments for people.

Zoya: Yeah sure. No problem.

Jonathan: Okay. Doug do you want to take some time to go over that?

Doug: Yeah, sure. It should be reiterated again, as Jonathan said at the top of the show, that this shouldn't be considered medical advice. Whether or not you should get the flu vaccine is up to you and your health care practitioner, be that a mainstream doctor or a naturopath or whatever that might be. There are a couple of homeopathics out there that can help as an alternative to the flu shot, the main one being one called Influenzinum. Influenzinum is a homeopathic preparation of the flu strains that the WHO has determined will be the ones in circulation for the year. So a new one comes out every year and they take the flu virus and dilute it according to homeopathic properties. You take that once a week for five weeks and it acts as an inoculation against the flu.

There are also a couple of other ones. One is called, Thymuline. Thymuline is a general immune booster, so that can be taken in a similar way or you can take it if you do start to feel yourself coming down with symptoms. There's another one called, Oscillococcinum which is a bit of a mouthful. Oscillococcinum is actually an extract of duck liver that is diluted. This is another one that can be taken when you start to feel symptoms coming on. You take it every six hours and it will help to stop that flu in its tracks.

I've taken many of these myself and I've actually found them to be quite effective. Also a number of my co-workers do the same. I've got a fairly large sample size to say that these things actually work quite well.

Jonathan: Nice. Now what you're talking about is homeopathic treatments that are specifically prepared for influenza, but we also wanted to briefly address vitamins and supplements that you can take to boost your immune system and that you can actually take while you are suffering from symptoms if you do have the flu, or even some even more severe conditions. As Doug said and we want to reiterate, we are not trying to give you medical advice. You need to talk to your own practitioner about this. This is stuff that we've come upon through our own research. Definitely look up on vitamin C. Look up Linus Pauling. Look up a lot of his research. He lived to be what 94-95 and he took vitamin C every day and lived a long, healthy life.

Vitamin C has also been shown to address many conditions when taken in large doses over the course of while the symptoms are presenting. It's also been shown that instead of taking a huge mega dose all at once, you want to take smaller doses at more frequent intervals. So, where as a mega dose might be considered something like 100 grams, which is 100,000 mgs, which you can actually handle if you're sick. You'll notice that you reach bowel tolerance where they say you'll get loose stools at a certain point. But if you're not reaching bowel tolerance, it means that your body is using the vitamin C to repair itself.

So it's much better to take that 100 grams and divide it down into two gram doses every half hour throughout the day and just keep taking and keep taking it. From personal experience, I've had that knock things out cold, within a day-and-a-half. There's also vitamin D, which is very effective, selenium, zinc and Doug can you think of anything else we'd want to add to that list?

Doug: Anything that boosts your liver's production of glutathione, which is your body's main antioxidant. So NAC, which is N-Acetyl-cysteine. Cysteine is a component of glutathione, so by taking NAC you're increasing the amount of raw material your body has to make glutathione. Alpha-lipoic acid is something that helps to regenerate glutathione. So those two work well in conjunction with each other. There are a couple of herbs. Did you want to talk more about the herbs?

Jonathan: Well we had discussed in lieu of a food recipe today because we're talking about vaccines and the flu, we wanted to give some options that people can do for an immune boosting tea. I was just going to say turmeric, ginger, cinnamon and cardamom would be my recipe for a nice, tasty immune boosting tea that would be effective. I just wanted to go over some information that I had pulled up here. Turmeric is a powerful anti-inflammatory and antioxidant. Ginger, the same way. I have a list here of countries throughout the world where they actually use ginger itself to treat the flu, coughing, nausea, vomiting, any symptoms like that; Burma, China, Columbia, Congo, India, Indonesia, Nepal, the Philippines, Peru and Japan and of course some places in the United States although we're a little behind the ball. We're still catching on to the rest of the world. Don't hold it against us.

So ginger for sure. Cinnamon is also an antioxidant and can increase blood flow to the heart. The National Institutes of Health said that there is a chemical found in cassia cinnamon called, cinnamaldehyde which can help fight against bacterial and fungal infections. Then cardamom as well is used in traditional medicine to treat throat troubles, lung congestion, pulmonary tuberculosis, inflammation, digestive disorders, gallstones and a number of other troubling conditions. It's also used in some places to treat venoms. So that would be my list.

If you can get the raw turmeric root, it's definitely much better to use that than the powder, I think, just because you're getting all of those natural compounds that are in the root, same with ginger, some cinnamon and some cardamom. Steep those in some boiling water for five-to-ten minutes. I've found a number of sources that said that when you steep herbs like this for a remedy tea, you actually want to steep them quite a bit longer. So play around with what you're doing. Experiment a little bit. Try heating up some water and keeping it at a simmer and then steeping those herbs in there and the roots for say a half hour to 45 minutes and then cool it down, strain it out, or drink it hot, whichever you prefer.
Where I live it gets really cold in the winter and Doug, you have the same issues up there.

Doug: Yeah!

Jonathan: But my hands get really dry, even if a drink a ton of water I get these dry hands. Recently I've been heating up coconut oil and then grating turmeric root into the coconut oil and letting that sit in water, in a double-boiler with a mason jar until the oil turns yellow and then rubbing that onto my skin, and it's amazing. Just within about a day-and-a-half, a lot of the scaliness and the dryness completely disappears. So I can definitely attest to the beneficial effects of turmeric and its anti-inflammatory properties. Doug you had mentioned a couple of others, astragalus and andrographis? Do you want to mention what those address?

Doug: Yeah. Astragalus is a really good one. You could add it to that tea that you mentioned, although I will say that it won't be nearly as tasty because astragalus does not taste very good. But it's an anti-viral actually, so it actually helps to knock out the virus itself. Andrographis is one you wouldn't necessary use when you're sick already. Andrographis is an immune booster. It's good to be taking during flu season when you're not sick. There's not much point in taking it when you are sick because your immune system is already boosted at that point. But through hormesis it activates the immune system and keeps you a little bit more defended against any of these things that are floating around.

If there's any kind of mucous production, for example a productive cough from the lungs, thyme and fenugreek are both really good for that to help as expectorants to help bring that up. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Those are some good herbs as well.

Jonathan: Cool. We definitely want to encourage people - and again, not medical advice - however, it is reasonable to encourage people to use herbs and some of these root vegetables and supplements in such a way as to boost your immune system and try to treat yourself as naturally as possible. Just make yourself stronger through natural means. I really think this is the way the body was meant to be. These things exist in our world and around us for a reason. We're supposed to interact with the world in this way. So I really think it's a valid area of research.

And in my own life have found really, really beneficial effects just from using the right supplements, the right herbs, the right vegetables, and especially as we mentioned last week, the high fat diet. You'll get a lot of nutrients from good saturated fats, grass fed butter. And also bone broth. We had done a recipe two weeks ago for the chicken soup and I would really encourage everyone to go to the Weston A. Price Foundation's website. Just Google Weston A. Price Foundation and look up Sally Fallon's work. You can also search Sally Fallon on YouTube and find a lot of her lectures there. Get your feet wet in the world of the high fat diet with good, saturated fats.

So, that's our show for today. That's what we've got for you. Thank you very much for listening and for spending this time with us. We hope that you all do stay healthy and we really, really hope that nobody gets sick this year. Do your best to stay well. So, thanks very much. And be sure to tune in to the Health and Wellness Show next week.