Interview conducted February 12th 2007 with author and historian Laura Knight-Jadczyk.


(intro music - 'Spirit in the Sky')

AW: [...] I think that record met the approval of our next guest on the program. What if everything you think you know about the world is a lie? Would we be able to perceive the truth if it was shown to us? Ancient Civilizations, Hyperdimensional Realities, DNA changes, Bible conspiracies, which are true and which are deliberate disinformation? Laura Knight Jadczyk says she has the real answers, and believe me, if you read her book, 'The Secret History of the World and How To Get Out Alive', you'll know that the truth is far weirder than fiction. Laura joins us now from our Paris studio. Welcome to the program, Laura.

Well, hi, thank you for having me.

AW: First and foremost, Norman Greenbaum's 'Spirit in the Sky', I believe you enjoyed that.

LKJ: I love that song; it's one of my favorites.

AW: Excellent, I think we chose it especially for you, Laura, that's about as, uh, as creative as we get on this program sometimes. Now, I felt very guarded about using the term conspiracy theories. I wasn't really sure how to bracket your book, as it were, do we need to be able to bracket your book, to bracket your writing, to be able to fit it into a genre or a pigeon hole?

LKJ: Well, it's really very difficult. It's difficult for me because, for example, you refer to conspiracy theories and a theory is something that is based on a certain number of concrete observations or facts. You don't form a theory until you have collected, uh, facts and data and if you'll notice, I have a, you know, a fifteen page bibliography in there, or maybe sixteen page, that includes the literature that I went through, uh, in order to collect the data that is included in the book. The book is heavily footnoted. Uhm, it does not, uh, get into any kind of material that is not fact based. And, it is just the interpretation of those facts that is somewhat different; because, you know, you can take the same facts and interpret them any numbers of ways. But, generally what happens is people interpret facts and exclude some in favor of others because there are those inconvenient facts, which Charles Fort called the 'damned data'. And the only kind of explanation that you can come up with for this world that would make any sense is one that includes all of the 'damned data'.

AW: Hmmm, it's funny that you should mention Charles Fort, we interviewed someone about him not so long ago on the program, and of course, he was another maverick, I mean, do you, do you, if I called you a maverick? Is that a difficult, or, uh, title that you don't feel fits you very well?

LKJ: Well, maverick is probably pretty good because I definitely do not go along with the herd and I don't even go along with the herd of the so-called alternative theorists. (laughs)

AW: Hmmm, well I've not had an opportunity to read the book myself, and I feel as though, I like to be able to do that, especially in these situations, because I feel the easiest thing to do, whenever anyone expounds theories that go against the grain, or go against the norm is almost to pour scorn on them. In a situation like this, Laura, do you feel defensive? Have you gone through a lot of experiences where people aren't actually prepared to listen to what you have to say, and would more, rather, kind of pour scorn before they give you a chance to explain yourself?

LKJ: Well, as I mentioned, I write some things that are counter to even the alternative theorists of today, so, I get scorned by the scientific community, to some extent - they have a little more difficulty, actually, scorning me than the alternative community because I support what I say with so much data - but, the alternative community, of course, it was quite a surprise to be so viciously attacked by those types of people and also the so-called new age community. So, and, then, of course, naturally, the religion, the religionists, uh, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, it doesn't matter because they're all based on one single document, which is the bible and, I pretty much, uh, dissect the bible in this book and explain things in ways that are more comprehensible. It's not even a new way of approaching this semi-legendary, semi-mythical material, it's something that Mircea Eliade, an historian of religion did extensively many years ago; and I quote him extensively, as well as other historians of religion.

So, I get attacked by people in religion, people in the new age, people in the scientific community, although, like I said, the scientific community pretty much leaves me alone. (laughs)

AW: Well, they appreciate the rigorousness of your work, I would imagine.

LKJ: I have a lot of scientists who are fans, actually, some of them covertly. They will write fan mail to me and ask me to please not reveal the fact that they, you know, enjoy my book so much.

AW: Funny, a lot of the correspondence I get for this program is along similar lines, I wonder why? But, as far as the book is concerned, it is an attempt to - well, not an attempt, it rewrites human history - so it's difficult for me as the interviewer, really, to focus in on any one point where you could perhaps give the people listening an insight into the dramatically different way that you interpret the facts that you mentioned earlier, so is there, perhaps, a best part of history where we could start?

LKJ: Well, the fundamental thesis of the book is that our reality is projected from, or embedded in, a higher or hyper-dimensional reality, and that what we perceive with our senses, you know, the, - the three dimensions of space and the four dimensions of space and time - are not all there is. And that, you know, even when we try to measure things that come from these other realities with our limited three-dimensional instrumentation, they fall short; you know, you can't even go there. So, that's the fundamental thesis, so taking history, taking the data that we have about human history, some of which is extremely mysterious; some of which is baffling, some of it's very shocking; putting it together, you begin to see a pattern, a flow, of something that enters and exits our reality in a way that, uhm; if you're familiar with the story 'Flatland' where, where the plane being, where the fingertips are put on the plane and what you see on the plane are round circles. And, if the hand were to be put through a membrane, you would just see, you know, circles going through, until the hand actually coalesced into a larger object, but to the beings of the membrane, it would never be anything other a circle that appeared and disappeared in time.

So, our reality is something like that and that there are denizens of this other reality that are perceivable to some people through history, and, they've - down through history - they've referred to them as gods or goddesses, or, uhm, you know, forces, beings, whatever; and they ascribe to them powers, appearances, you know, based upon how they read them. I don't think they necessarily are amorphous either, and that's, that's where the new age community has completely gone astray, by thinking that anything outside this reality must be amorphous, must be a spirit. It doesn't have to be a spirit at all. Just a slight shift in the dimensional reality and you have a completely other reality that is as physical as our own.

AW: Ok, Laura, from the point of view of the basic science, really, behind this, the idea of a parallel universe is obviously one that is very common amongst physicists, and I believe your husband is a world renowned physicist as well?

LKJ: Yes, he is.

AW: So, at least from that particular foundation, there would appear to be great scientific support for your theories. Why is there, then, resistance from all of the bodies that you mentioned, if this is almost explainable.

LKJ: Well, as I said, people who are attached to their religion don't want a rational explanation for, for what happens. People who are attached to the new age; the new age is really little more than a variation on the old standard religions, I just call it new age fundamentalism. The scientific support that I get is really kind of unique because it comes from odd and unusual places. And then there are, of course, many people in the scientific community who just reject it out of hand. There is one of my husband's colleagues who jokes that he does world-class mathematics on odd days and channels on even days. So, we have an interesting life in that respect. So, I think that some of the rejection comes from some of the inspiration I use to follow these clues.

AW: And, obviously, people have vested interests in preserving their own version of the facts, which is incredible. Now you mentioned multiple realities, why is it important for us as humans to try to question or determine a reality that is beyond our own? In other words, we can't actually change the other reality, or change our own reality, is there any point in you making the voyage you have, as it were?

LKJ: Well, there is nothing that says that we can't change it if we know about it and understand it. What you don't know can definitely hurt you, especially in this respect. Uh, one of the things that really got me going many years ago was that I would, you know, I would read these so called conspiracy theories, and I would follow each theory as far as I could follow it - you know following a paper trail - and I always came up against a dead end. I mean, it was like, you would take it as far as you could go and then it was a dead end. It was like, ok, beyond this, there is a mystery. And, yet at the same time, you could look at the vast pattern of history and you could see that, you know, that there was a strong indication that something was maneuvering things toward a particularly directed end. And yet there was no possibility in my mind, after following all these many trails, that this could be a human conspiracy, because human beings simply, simply can't conspire over thousands of years; they can't keep something going that long. They, they work on immediate, uh, immediate reward, they want, you know, cause and effect, if I am going to do something, I want my reward in this lifetime.

And, uhm, so, there is no possibility that any of these conspiracies could be human originated and that was, uh, that was where I was for a long time. And then I began to think about manipulations from other realities. And then, of course, it was when I got into my channeling experiment, because I was very frustrated at that point, because I could go no further. I mean, I had, I had, I had pretty much exhausted everything; I had exhausted the normal avenues of, of information and I had exhausted the so-called paranormal avenues of information and I kept coming up against that funny thing that Charles Fort said, you know, he says, "I think we're property". And it struck me, uh, that is exactly how it appears, when you look at this vast sweep of history, it's as though we're one big experiment.

AW: Well, and, and who is, you know, perpetrating the experiment?

LKJ: Who perpetrates it? Well, I would suggest that it is denizens of this other reality that are referred to by the ancients as gods, and nowadays, of course they, they may refer to them as aliens. I don't think they're aliens. I don't think they come from other planets. I think they are hyperdimensional beings and I think that they've been here for many thousands of years, if not for all of human history. There are records of lights in the sky and strange beings that are similar to, you know, what are called aliens down through history. Jacques Vallee referred to it as a control system. Control system, hyperdimensional reality; it's pretty much the same thing.

AW: Hmm, I'm just wondering why, you know, why they would appear to be so fascinated with us, especially over such a long protracted amount of time. Clearly, I don't know what their intentions are, so it's difficult to try to gauge that, or even if they do have intentions like human beings have intentions. But what do you hypothesize is the reason that people might want to manipulate us in this way, or, I'm sorry, beings, might want to manipulate us in this way?

LKJ: Well, the evidence strongly indicates that we are food for them.

(long silent pause)

AW: Uhm, what evidence suggests that?

LKJ: Well, the evidence of, say for example, wars, and plagues and famines, and, uh, the... and I'm not saying that we are physical food necessarily, I'm saying that, you know, energy, energetic food, emotional; that pain and suffering is something they uh, they feed on, that gives energy to them. Just as the movie 'The Matrix', you know, said that people were in pods and their emotional energy produced energy for the system, for the machine, that they were batteries, it's very similar, that we are, in essence, a, uh, a power supply.

AW: Well, if we, the, the, the human way of maybe responding to something like that, to maybe analyze it scientifically, typically, is to try to look for, perhaps, an example within our universe. So to look at maybe, you know, a microcosm within, I don't know, the flora or the fauna that we research and I, I can't think of anything, you know, and I'm sure you'll correct me. Or at least an example within our universe of an ecosystem that behaves in that way, where you put things kind of under stress rather than just eating them or devouring them, it seems a...

LKJ: Think of the cat and the mouse. What does the cat do with the mouse?

AW: He plays with the mouse.

LKJ: I mean, is it necessary for the cat to play with the mouse before it eats it?

AW: No, it's not (laughs) that was a very, yeah, that's a very obvious example isn't it? A very good example. So, is the point then that they need to kind of maintain us, and keep us here, keep us going as a food source in the same way we try to sustain our own food sources?

LKJ: More or less, and I think that in many respects, they cut us some slack, you know, they make sure we know enough to create a civilization, to feed that civilization, to build that civilization up, to increase the numbers of people in that civilization; and then, to put people into conflict with one another so that they fight and kill one another so that there is massive pain and suffering.

AW: Do you find this, I mean, having come to this conclusion, do you find that, I don't know, a depressing thought? Or do you think it's empowering because it removes us from some of the ways that humans have sort of been stuck to over the millennium, I mean, how do you feel having come to that conclusion?

LKJ: Well, in the beginning, it was extraordinarily depressing, as you, as you might imagine. And, you know, it was... Somebody asked me, you know, after all these years what have you learned? And I said, well, I've learned that there is no free lunch in the Universe and if you think there is, then you're lunch. And also, we are not at the top of the food chain.

And, that was pretty depressing for a period of time, and then I finally began to work my way through that and I went back and started searching the literature for evidence of anyone who had found their way out of this, this - you know, had they realized this situation; had they understood it - what clues were there, and what conclusions did they come to and was anybody able to, to overcome it, to escape it, so to speak?

And, clearly, there are individuals in history; and you'll notice that the book has a thread all the way through it of alchemy. I believe that alchemists were among those who were able to not only come to understand the system, but were able to step outside of the system, to be able to access hyperdimensional realities. Because all of these things, that uh, these special powers that so-called alchemists were able to achieve, have to do with mastery of space and time, which is what you achieve when you, uh, achieve the ability to step in and out of the hyperdimensional realities.

So, there are alchemists, there are some types of yogis, there is, uh, there is the ancient material that was brought to the West by Gurdjieff, by Mouravieff. There is some very ancient literature that speaks to these matters and talks about people who have escaped. And that's why there is a subtitle to the book, you know, 'and How to Get out Alive', because I do address that. You know, I mean, I don't want to tell somebody, you know, hey, you're in a, in one hell of a situation, without telling them, you know, there is a way out. And it isn't... the way out is not in believing your way out, because believing your way out is what they want you to do. As long as they can get you to believe something; as long as they can invoke your faith, in some pie in the sky idea that you're going to change your reality by, by believing it, or you're going to get raptured to heaven when Jesus comes, or, uh, when the Mahdi comes, or whatever. You know, that keeps you complacent. Because...

AW: But, but, but, in that case, then, we live, at least I would imagine it's the same in the States and in France where you are at the moment, but certainly in this country, we seem to be living in an increasingly secular society, you know, an increasingly less complacent, uh, society. And, fewer people subscribe to those points of view. So what is the, the, you know, belief system that we have at the moment that makes us fodder for these hyperdimensional beings?

LKJ: I would say that I don't necessarily agree with you. Now, I'm from the United States and I lived in the Bible Belt, and, if you've noticed, George Bush has a great deal of support among fundamentalist bible believers, who actually believe that if they push the envelope on Armageddon, it will force Jesus to come and rapture them. They really believe this. I don't know if you have anybody in your family who subscribes to these types of beliefs, but I do, and they sincerely, truly, believe that.

And, interestingly, the ideas of the rapture originated in Wales, I don't know if you're aware of that or not.

AW: No, no, I didn't know that, no.

LKJ: Yes, they, they originated in some fundamentalist type churches that, uh, went into some charismatic type activities that were accompanied by strange phenomena, including lights in the skies. At the same time, all over England, there were strange sightings of black cats, black dogs and, uh, other unusual what you would call hyperdimensional window-fallers; creatures that would slip between dimensions. So, it was an extremely unusual event that this belief system was introduced there, at that time, accompanied by these types of events, which is, once again, a little bit of evidence of the hyperdimensional manipulation.

AW: Hmmm, ok, but I'm still, I would still maintain, I mean, you know, obviously, within my experience, there is no one in my family who has those kinds of fundamentalist views, but I would suggest that even those, you know, the people who hold those views in the Bible Belt in the States, it's still a minority of the population. So, I'm just wondering when does that kind of spiritual void, if it's that kind of thing that these beings feed off of, if we're becoming, you know, less complacent, as it were, then we're, we're kind of failing as a, as a food source.

LKJ: Well, I don't think we're failing...

AW: So, what will they do about that?

LKJ: Because, it's as much a belief, uh, science is as much a religion as Christianity is. And, you can believe all you want in the power of science, and it's not going to save you if you don't acknowledge that science itself has its limits.

AW: Ok, well, yeah, but there's a rationality to science that, well at least, I don't have experience with it any other way, that precludes it from forming the kind of conflict that you're talking about, though, that these beings feed off. I'm still, maybe I'm focusing too much on this idea that it's the conflict that these beings feed off of. We've become a, I mean, clearly there are examples in the world at the moment where there appears to be more conflict than there has been before, but we're a more peaceful planet, aren't we - as a whole, than we've been at most points in the past?

LKJ: Are you living in the same world I'm living in?

AW: No, I'm not, but I'm not living during the Second World War, I'm not living during the First World War.

LKJ: Well, what I mean is, if we're sitting...

AW: I'm not living during the great plagues or the great tribulations that have shaken, you know, human history in the not so distant and the distant past.

LKJ: But we're sitting here on the... we've got a lunatic sitting in the White House in the United States and we're sitting on the verge of global nuclear conflict, and don't ever think that he's not going to try it, because he is.

AW: Yes, but that's scare mongering...

LKJ: It's not scare mongering, the man is a psychopath; he will do it.

AW: Ok, well we've been...

LKJ: He will do it.

AW: well, I think...

LKJ: Take it to the bank.

AW: I think from a factual point of view, we've been a lot closer to nuclear apocalypse in the past. That doesn't mean to say that we need to be, uh, you know, complacent, to use your own words, now, but I think that, that, I don't think it's out of order for me to say that that's scare mongering language.

LKJ: Well, look at the United States; it has turned into a fascist police state. The U.K. is practically a fascist police state, I mean, you know, it's, it's everywhere.

AW: I think anyone who lived in, uh, Nazi Germany or lived in France under the occupation would, would definitely react against that statement.

LKJ: I don't think so, I...

AW: Wouldn't they?

LKJ: No, I absolutely do not think so, I have studied this extensively, and the comparisons between Nazi Germany and the United States today are vast and numerous.

AW: Do you have, uh, secret police that, that, uh, takes people in the middle of the night and they never reappear?

LKJ: Apparently they do...

AW: In large numbers?

LKJ: Well, they're starting to get the numbers larger and larger; they've got a place called Guantanamo. It's just the beginning.

AW: Ok, well that's uhm, you know, it's an interesting way of interpreting things. If we move on, though, and look maybe in the deeper and more distant past, I believe that, uh, you know, that the roots of your book go back into ancient civilizations.

LKJ: Yes.

AW: And, obviously, I'm assuming, civilizations where we don't have a great deal of documentary evidence as to how they functioned, and an awful lot of that is conjecture. So, what have you interpreted from, from the ancient civilizations?

LKJ: Well, the one thing that I looked at particularly was myth. And, if myth is the survival of this ancient technology that I've theorized to have existed, based on certain archeological finds that I enumerate in the book, it seems to me, that... For example, the myth of Perseus... Perseus was given a pair of sandals that helped him to fly and a, a helmet that gave him invisibility and various, you know, accoutrements that helped him accomplish his, uh, his particular mission to cut off the Gorgon's head. Now, a lot of anthropologists say that these kinds of myths developed, you know, as a way to explain the forces of nature. But, if you're just explaining the forces of nature, and you have a, say, a super being who can fly, why do you want to put sandals on him to give him that ability to fly? Why can't he fly without sandals?

Because, there certainly are other mythical beings who are able to fly or to transport themselves hyper-dimensionally. They don't need sandals. So, essentially, what you're looking at is you're looking at a technological object that enables this person to fly. Then, of course, there are the, you know, the Vedas where they have these Vimanas, these ships that they would fly in and engage in what, uh, what seems to be nuclear war.

And, if you look at these myths, for example, the, uh, the series of, of Grail myths, there are... there is a lance, there's a cup, there's a, uh, a, a platter, a talking head. You know, there are several elements to the, to the Grail myths, all of which, if you understood them properly, might indicate an ancient technology. And, I, I go into that in the book to some extent to try to show how, if a civilization ended, uhm, and the, you know, all of the infrastructure of that civilization came to, you know, came to... was destroyed, essentially, how the survivors would tell the stories about what civilization was like to their children, to their grandchildren. And how, after several generations, these stories of this ancient culture, this ancient technology, would be transformed into myth.

And that, that is what I think we see when we see these ancient myths of flying and special powers and mastery of space and time.

AW: Mmmm, and you mentioned archeological evidence, uh, what kind of archeological evidence are we talking about? Because, obviously, you know, I'm obviously, you know, I've obviously, I've been to Stonehenge, and just the very fact that we still don't know why these amazing edifices were created thousands of years ago, of course there are strong theories, but what would your theories be?

LKJ: Well, I would say that Stonehenge itself is an energy accumulator and it probably worked with human beings as part of the machinery. They interacted with the stones to gather the energy, or to gather it into themselves. It was a, uh, a human hyperdimensional interface. One of the ancient legends is that the god Apollo danced at Stonehenge every 19 years, there's an 18.5 year cycle between the Earth, the Moon and the, and the Sun, which is, you know, a three body system that every 19 years, or 18.5 years, it returns to the same position. And, at those times, there is a theory that, uh, during those times, that a gravitational node, uh, exists at a certain point between the Earth and Moon, which could be a doorway to hyperdimensional access.

So, if they're talking, if they knew, in those ancient times, about this particular three body system cycle, and they talked about the god Apollo dancing at Stonehenge every, you know, 19 years, or 18.5 years, then they obviously understood something about hyperdimensional realities.

AW: So, why have we become ignorant to this knowledge, what has been the force behind that?

LKJ: Well, many times there have been events that happen on the Earth that, uh, wipe civilizations out. I've just recently finished reading an interesting book by a physicist, uh, his name is Richard Firestone. And, he talks about the most recent extreme cataclysmic event, which was about 1300, uh, 13,000 years ago, which is, which puts it right at the time of Plato's Atlantis. And, uh, he goes through extensive, excruciating detail, and he discovered and analyzed, all of the material that shows that the entire planet was bombarded by a swarm of cometary bodies that exploded, you know, either in the air or impacted. He, he proposes that the southern end of Lake Michigan is a cometary impact crater, and that there was one in Hudson Bay, and he has found several others around the planet, and that basically, at this point in history, nearly the entire human race was wiped out as well as all of the mega-fauna of Europe and North American, and South America too.

AW: And the knowledge was lost at that point...

LKJ: Well, certainly...

AW: And other points like that in human history...

LKJ: Yeah, I mean, if, if you're... also another thing that happened was that the sea level rose 400 feet, so the evidence, you know, most of our civilization lives on sea coasts or, you know, along sides of rivers, so your sea level has risen 400 feet since then, or at that time, uh, an awful lot would be covered up. And, of course, if you have exploding comets in the atmosphere, if you have hundreds of thousands of the Tunguska event, happening...

AW: Hmmm

LKJ: Now, imagine, because you look at the Carolina Bays in the United States, and there are hundreds of thousands of them, and, and actually, the Carolina Bays are not the only place in the United States where there are these particular features. He shows how they also exist all over the South West, that they are also in the, uh, in, in other areas of the world, that there are some of them even in Ireland, I believe. So, there, this was a massive global event 13,000 years ago that almost literally wiped out the entire human race.

AW: And, was that perpetrated by these beings, or was that...

LKJ: Oh, no, no, no, that was a natural cycle; those are natural cycles. But, you see, they know and understand the cycles, and then they do everything they can to keep us from knowing and understanding those cycles.

AW: So it wasn't a question where we got to the point where we almost knew too much, and we were, uh, being reigned back as it were?

LKJ: Well, you could say that, because, uh, it, maybe it's just a natural cycle that when human beings get to the point that they can destroy themselves, then that's just the way it happens.

AW: Ok.

LKJ: And that may be the point where we are now.

AW: So, do you, you know, having written a book and having studied these subjects extensively, uh, your world view does sound bleak, I'm afraid to say, Laura. Is that your feeling? Do you feel as bleak as the very stark manner in which you described the current state of, uhm, of America at this point in time?

LKJ: Well, personally for myself, I don't feel all that bleak about it. I just do what I can to try to make as many people aware of the possibilities as I can, and if, you know, more people become aware, then they can possibly do something to change it.

AW: So is your motivation to get them to change it within the boundaries of how our society works at the moment, in a political fashion, as it were? Or, is it to embrace, uh, this more, almost more existential way of looking at ourselves and, and the, our futures, as it were?

LKJ: I think the first thing we need is, we need to increase scientific study of many, many things because science is the only thing that is going to save us. And, we need to get politics out of science, that's the first thing. And, we need to give them some freedom to work on what really matters, and to quit controlling science, politically speaking.

And, then we need to listen to the consensus of scientists, and, uh, I think that's the first thing we need to do. And, as far as politics, well, uh, I'm not too sure that anything can be done politically. It's uh, you know, I'm not really, I couldn't even suggest anything along that line, except to get rid of the psychopaths. But, you know, that has to be done through science. The only way you could deal with politics is through science.

AW: Hmmm, mmmm, indeed. And, what are you working on at the moment? You mentioned that you were, at least you were in the process of working on something at the moment, how do you extend this work further?

LKJ: Well, I'm, I'm kind of zeroing in on one particular aspect of something I mentioned in 'Secret History', which is the, the origins of, of our religious beliefs, which is Judaism, which began with, you know, supposedly, with Moses, Abraham, etc. And, I am zeroing in on that, and bringing together a lot of documentary evidence to explain exactly who, where, when, how and why it happened.

AW: And, if, I don't know whether you're familiar with our bookshops in, in the United Kingdom, I mean, if people come into a bookshop, as I mentioned right at the start of our conversation, uh, tonight, you know, books, like music, tend to be grouped in pigeonholes. Where would people be able to find your book in the bookshops, under what heading does it go? Is that a cause of frustration? From that exhalation of breath, it sounds like it might be.

LKJ: yeah, because there is so much science in it, yet there is a certain amount of paranormal, there is para-science, there is religion, there is, uh, alchemy, there is; it's just, it's just really a no-niche book.

AW: It's funny, whenever we talk about science, particularly on this program, increasingly, uh, the scientists we talk to want us to embrace science, I don't know, more holistically, look at it not as strict disciplines, you know, to make sure we are aware that all of these things do join together.

LKJ: Right.

AW: So, is this a good thing, as far as you're concerned, a good thing, moving away from regarding the sciences as strict disciplines and maybe realizing that they are actually all intertwined?

LKJ: Absolutely, one of the big problems that I've seen as I've gone through this scientific literature, and I've been able to consult with scientists directly, for some of the material in the book, and, uh, to ask questions and have my questions answered by the experts in the field, and the one thing I've noticed is, is that there is, you know, scientists in one field don't talk so much to scientists in other fields. For example, lowest on my list, and I, and I really apologize to some of you out there, but kind of lowest on my list are Egyptologists.

AW: Hmmm

LKJ: I, I have a, I am extremely frustrated with them, because, you know, all of our history; our entire history, as we understand it and know it, as it's promulgated, you know, popularly, is based on what Egyptologists decide about chronology. And, Egyptologists really, really need to learn some science.

AW: Hmmm, it's a, it seems like a fundamental mistake. Laura, thank you very much for coming in and talking to us tonight. We've had a few text messages, but one I think I'll definitely bring up is, "this lady's very brave and I congratulate her, very strange subject and almost quite scary". So, there is definitely support for you out there. Thank you so much for talking to us. 'The Secret History of the World and How to Get out Alive' is published by Red Pill Press, and you can find that at your bookshop or go to Laura, thank you for your time.

LKJ: And thank you for having me.