Puppet Masters

Why are DHS and ICE Stockpiling Ammo?

Russia Times
Mon, 02 Apr 2012 00:00 UTC

The US Department of Homeland Security and the Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Office have placed an order for 450 million rounds of .40 caliber bullets. The amount of ammo exceeds the amount of people that live in the US and many wonder the motives behind the vast purchase. The contractor Alliant Techsystems is the company supplying the ammunition to DHS and ICE and although the agencies claim these bullets are to be used for target practice many believe they have something else in mind. Jason Bermas, radio host and Filmmaker, joins us for more on the questionable purchase.

Reader Comments

inverse · 2012-04-05T23:04:37Z

Reader

Bullets don't kill people, people kill people...

wytebear · 2012-04-05T23:15:21Z

People kill more people with bullets than people kill people with...say...a sharp stick.

Lynne · 2012-04-06T07:47:57Z

"Bullets don't kill people, people kill people..."

This, really, has nothing to do with this article. The fact that so much ammo is being ordered by these groups is fairly alarming. I think that this is a very good question. Why do they want to much ammo? Especially these groups who are so quick to take rights away from the common citizen and think of people as nothing more than worthless feeders.

drazen · 2012-04-06T09:34:10Z

inverse, you like to inverse things frequently here on sott.net and I wonder do I see some kind of obsession that is driving you often? Maybe things are not so simple as you may think and more critical and objective approach could be beneficial for you.

muxel · 2012-04-08T07:08:51Z

inverse, that is THE catchphrase of the pro-gun people. I sincerely hope you're not one of them.

house · 2012-04-06T13:12:32Z

populataion stats

Canada, U.S. and Mexico have combined population figures of 458 million... give or take 230,000 DHS employees.

bngenoh · 2012-04-06T14:34:51Z

For 2011: Canada = 34,278,400 [[Link] Mexico = 113,724,226 [[Link] U.S. = 313,315,208 [[Link] ______________
Canada+Mexico+US = 461,317,834

Well, that's pretty close when dealing with populations that is, but you probably have to factor in all the assorted intelligence agencies, not just DHS. But one bullet per person, know that's wishful thinking. Just saying.....

hipstarr68 · 2012-04-06T15:31:37Z

i got sent this

Very good article, and of course, from a Marine!!!!

As the Supreme Court heard arguments for and against the Chicago, IL Gun Ban, this man offered you another stellar example of a letter (written by a Marine), that places the proper perspective on what a gun means to a civilized society.

Interesting take and one you don't hear much. . . . . .
Read this eloquent and profound letter and pay close attention to the last paragraph of the letter....

"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force.

The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunken guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser.

People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force, watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level.

The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.)

So, the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.

muxel · 2012-04-08T07:03:33Z

That is the standard argument of pro-gun rednecks. I'll explain why the author of that letter is a dumb f_ck. (Well, Marines are required to be stupid anyway.)

Let's use his example of 100 lb woman versus 220 lb man. Wouldn't TRUE civility be where the man NEVER uses force against the woman? The author instead proposes to up the woman's "force" coefficient so it is greater than or equal to the man's. In other words, Caudill says that reason only becomes an option when it is uneconomical to use force. Implying that force is the "default" mode of interaction.

Oh, and giving a gun to the 100 lb woman actually allows her to overpower the 220 lb man. so you've created a new force inequality. How are you gonna solve that?

Luke · 2012-04-06T15:41:47Z

Well it is becoming quite clear that something pretty heavy is being planned for america. Don't know what, doesnt make sense as America is pretty much the PTB HQ of planet earth.

All these bullets can't just be for practicing as the guy in the video makes a good point about them being hollow and thus not for practicing. On its own, sure people can buy the just for practicing line but combined with all the new legislation being passed in quick succession. Just makes you wonder what they are so afraid off?? Like what can happen that makes it imperative to have such a planned heavy handed response from the state??

bngenoh · 2012-04-06T17:35:35Z

What could they be planning indeed Luke. It looks like DHS's 450 million order is just the tip of the ice berg [[Link]

ocean59 · 2012-04-06T20:14:31Z

There is an extra character in bngenoh's link - just backspace out the last ] after html and then the link will work.

Crazy times ahead for sure!

Luke · 2012-04-07T06:44:36Z

Nice article bngenoh... Seems like alot of departments are planning on doing alot of practise in the upcoming future.

To me, it comes down to the government knowing or anticipating something that might happen in future and they need to take quick and ruthless action. In my opinion it can't be civil war because lets be honest the american population is so heavily ponerised they couldn't think of causing such civil disruption to warrant the actions being planned. Even a meteor strike or several would cause such severe disruption that you would think there wouldn't be people to enforce law so that kind of gets eliminated. Even if they are planing on implementing total control, people likely wouldnt rise up, look at the latest laws being passed, people just accept such stuff as the reality nowadays.

So it must be something else completely and utterly new in my opinion, something that would seriously undermine the power of the state or the power of continuity or cause major fractures to the illusion weaved over peoples eyes where people all of a sudden enmasse wake up to the horror of the present. OSIT. Maybe the ice age?

muxel · 2012-04-08T07:14:21Z

Ice Age = starvation, food scarcity, mass migration, looting, riots, economic collapse...

Yeah, PTB stocking up on bullets to deal with the hungry hordes.

rbateman · 2012-04-06T19:47:07Z

Military rounds used in war are solid by international agreement. Hollow point bullets are intended to inflict maximum possible wounds. That DHS and ICE are ordering hollow point bullets tells me that they don't intend to honor the Geneva Convention. i.e. - to cause as much suffering as possible.
This should surprise no one.

muxel · 2012-04-08T07:25:15Z

Interesting point, rbateman. Maximum possible wounds huh? Sounds like they aren't interested in accuracy as much as blindly shooting into crowds... The elite defending their secret food stores from angry hordes, maybe? Or, population culling in other countries...?

RedMan · 2012-04-08T01:43:26Z

Well

A hollow point bullet is worthless for target practice because there are highly inaccurate. From 10 feet you will miss a body sized target completely.

Meadmaid52 · 2013-02-04T23:08:36Z

Major Caudill Makes Sense!

Though we don't like to think it, most of our society today is NOT civilized by any means. Occasionally we have the fleeting illusion that it is - for instance while sitting back and enjoying a great musical concert on PBS with friends or working with a group of people working their butts off to save oiled seabirds. That is real and that is civilized, but it's not how most of the world behaves. For always in the backs of our minds we know that at the same time some little girl is getting raped, some guy is getting his throat slashed for the $5 in his wallet and unmanned drones are bombing families in villages half a world away in order to take their land. I'm with the Major on this - I want the ability to be persuaded, to be able to protect myself and my loved ones and not forced by anyone - least of all our government.

Is Israel not a state that uses terrorism a lot, and is not Turkey the same? And, of course, the ugly elephant in the room, the US - the most...

eulogical

Bye bye, All American satellites, Israel….. a taste of your own medicine and no way out! You were told! Americans, stay away from all military...

Highlander

"I don't care if they are ever prosecuted for all that grift" totally unacceptable and what a horrible attitude to have.

letscit45

Talk about drained batteries and drained funds.

JTF Truth

Some skanky trolling on this page eh, fella's...

Gator

Puppet Masters

Why are DHS and ICE Stockpiling Ammo?

Reader Comments

Latest News

Picture of the Day

Quote of the Day

Recent Comments

Quantum Quirk