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Trump re-election campaign lawyer Sidney Powell on exposing mass vote fraud: 'It will be BIBLICAL' - UPDATE: Trump campaign lawyers distance president from Powell

Eric Mack
Newsmax
Sat, 21 Nov 2020 15:23 UTC

Levying explosive claims of widespread voter fraud specifically tied to Dominion Voting Systems and potentially a pay-for-play scheme with GOP Gov. Brian Kemp, Trump campaign lawyer Sidney Powell on Newsmax TV vowed to deliver a "biblical" voter fraud case this week.

"We've got tons of evidence; it's so much, it's hard to pull it all together," Powell told Saturday night's "The Count" co-hosted by Rob Schmitt and Mark Halperin, teasing the explosive allegation of the Georgia governor in a contested and key battleground state.

"Hopefully this week we will get it ready to file, and it will be biblical."

"It's a massive project to pull this fraud claim together with the evidence that I want to put in," she added.

"You name the manner of fraud and it occurred in Georgia."

Among the most explosive claims alluded to by Powell were:

Joe Biden votes being "weighted" at 1.25 times and President Donald Trump votes being parsed at 3/4.
Algorithms that gave Democrats 35,000 extra votes.
Modifications made to voting machines after statutory cutoff dates for changes.
Past election victories, including Hillary Clinton's primary victory over Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., being forced/decided by Dominion Voting Systems.
Alleged pay-for-play kick-backs to public officials, potentially even Georgia GOP Gov. Kemp for a late grant to use Dominion Voting Systems.

"Georgia is probably going to be the first state I'm gonna blow up," Powell said rhetorically with her pending lawsuits alleging massive voter fraud.

Comment: We're inclined to believe Powell regarding the scale of the fraud she is suggesting took place; this election was probably rigged to the tune of millions of votes 'flipped' from Trump to Biden.

Powell's idea that the rigging was meant to be more straightforward fits with what we saw happen. Digital flipping of votes occurred 'mid-stream', on the night, as they came in... but that there were too many for Trump so the system became overwhelmed somehow ("the algorithm crashed"), forcing the 'pause', followed by manual dumps of fraudulent ballots for Biden over subsequent hours and days.

Having said that, we're also wary of QAnon-like claims about 'justice being served any day now'. It's been 4 years and Killary is still very much free. The 'Venezuela-Cuba-China-Commies-did-this-to-us' angle is also, of course, pure BS. We're scratching our heads as to why the Trump legal team would sully their case with such provably false claims. Powell DOES also keep name-dropping the CIA, so at least she occasionally hones in on the most likely perps...

What Powell appears to be doing, in general, is drumming up popular support for Trump's case - and thus 'pressure' that can be applied on US Supreme Court judges when they do finally hear and see the evidence Powell, Giuliani et al present of mass vote fraud.

People can question the wisdom of this, but don't forget that those judges will be coming under far greater pressure from the deep state to certify the election of Joe Biden, 'or else'...

As things stand, Trump's going to need a 'hail mary' from 'on high' to 'un-steal' this election.

UPDATE 23 Nov 2020

In the space of a few hours, from conducting press conferences side-by-side with Powell to retweeting her interviews, the other lawyers representing Trump's re-election campaign have suddenly distanced the president from her:

And Powell's response:

Trump's chances of re-elections likely just took another dive.

Reader Comments

Rowan Cocoan · 2020-11-22T17:20:53Z

Not surprised at all:

Joe Biden votes being "weighted" at 1.25 times and President Donald Trump votes being parsed at 3/4.

You go lady!

R.C.

Good Optics · 2020-11-22T17:32:13Z

I love the calling card, best thing I've seen in a long time

Good Optics · 2020-11-22T17:39:20Z

We're scratching our heads as to why the Trump legal team would sully their case with such provably false claims. Powell DOES also keep name-dropping the CIA, so at least she occasionally homes in on the most likely perps...

Strategy. It's called, "Not-waking-up-dead" and those false claims are easily walked away from, when the time comes. Right now they're playing, "We're not really as smart as we think we are", on purpose.

HashAttack2 · 2020-11-22T18:44:57Z

Good Optics That's my suspicion - Distraction

Niall · 2020-11-22T19:34:03Z

Good Optics You better hope they leave that stuff out in court, 'cause to date the central piece of evidence that Dominion/Smartmatic flipped millions of votes in the US 2020 eleciton is the affidavit Powell has that claims a Venezuelan co-founder of one or other of those companies was present when he personally overheard Hugo Chavez custom-order 'rig election' features from them.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-22T19:41:05Z

HashAttack2 Could be some kind of weird pre-emptive strike.

Good Optics · 2020-11-22T20:30:10Z

Niall I think it likely they have a pretty good handle on this. I heard Sidney talk about the Venezuela occurrence but seem to recall it was Maduro who arranged the hacking, but never mind; the fact is that the software is reputed to have the built-in capability to 'pre-ordain' election 'results'.

graeme15b · 2020-11-22T21:41:13Z

Good Optics Whichever way this pans out, the end result is a deeply divided American public, lots of anger and plenty of mistrust. The people in the shadows stand to gain in either scenario, I reckon.

Good Optics · 2020-11-22T22:01:21Z

graeme15b I reckon you are right, and in the meantime the agendas of Klaus Schwab the One-stop Anti-Christ have gained ground, which is yet more fertile.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-22T22:08:30Z

Good Optics Here in the UK we're getting Covid schwab tests soon.

graeme15b · 2020-11-22T22:11:52Z

Good Optics Seems that way.

Sorry for the contrary terminology, but they prefer barren ground, if you know what I mean?

Good Optics · 2020-11-22T23:08:50Z

BlackCartouche Perfect, and I don't even want to hear about what's gonna shake out . . .

HashAttack2 · 2020-11-22T18:43:23Z

It's time for the Dems to pay the iron price

"We are ironborn. We're not subjects, we're not slaves. We do not plow the field or toil in the mine. We take what is ours."

Balon Greyjoy

HashAttack2 · 2020-11-22T18:59:16Z

On the possibility that the fraud was a conspiracy involving 1000s of people ... Zuckerberg's $350 million dollars would still work out as $100K per bribe if there were 3500 people involved

balboa schwartz · 2020-11-22T19:38:33Z

HashAttack2 I 'd estimate 3500 is a low number. Add a zero, maybe.

HashAttack2 · 2020-11-22T19:45:22Z

balboa schwartz Someone the other day ... They were discussing the moral merits of being able to go back in time and murdering Hitler before he came to power. Is that a good thing to do? ... He then went on to question, given the masses that have been indoctrinated to believe Trump is worse than Hitler, is there any crime they would not willingly do in order to prevent Trump from being elected

Tens of thousand of minions each doing there bit to subvert the results is highly possible

Do you need to borrow my Sharpie?

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-22T19:31:15Z

The 'Venezuela-Cuba-China-Commies-did-this-to-us' angle is also, of course, pure BS. We're scratching our heads as to why the Trump legal team would sully their case with such provably false claims.

It might not be that far-fetched. Remember the Democrat-and-Leftist manufactured BLM-agenda has also been part-funded by 'China-Commies, and all that that might imply':

'Trained Marxist' Black Lives Matter co-founder is being funded by group linked to the Chinese Communist Party -- Society's Child -- Sott.net

Niall · 2020-11-22T19:42:42Z

BlackCartouche That's a very tenuous link to the Chinese government, and an unlikely 'cell' or 'front'. The 'Chinese Progressive Association' in the USA is a 50-year-old organization for Chinese-American or Chinese expatriate liberals living there.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-22T19:48:13Z

Niall Either way, good to see you back in the driving seat

graeme15b · 2020-11-22T21:48:17Z

BlackCartouche Perhaps not as far reaching as some suggest, but I'm sure the Chinese have their interests in Washington. I'm also quite sure they would prefer Badun to Trump.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-22T22:02:26Z

graeme15b Yeah, I mean Trump is pitted up against Deep State who are global, which means anything seemingly tenuous not so long ago could turn out to be quite the likelihood these days. Its a new potential step-up ploy by One World Gov which could become obvious quite soon I reckon, of which I'm certain China is a king-pin nation behind all this, and should be well considered and then put in the back of our minds for now... because, of course we don't want paranoid claims spiralling out of control, either.

graeme15b · 2020-11-22T22:21:01Z

BlackCartouche I'm not so sure about that. China certainly has grown in 'stature', but I don't think it is at the centre of the web, so to speak. In all nations, the elites want to remain on top of the dung pile.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-22T22:32:22Z

graeme15b Not right in the centre, no. Not yet. But they are heavy in all the things our soon-overtly One World Gov love to do things; the surveillance tech, the regimented urban-centric planning and psychology, hyper-automation, citizen obedience programmes, the robots (real and human ones) etc - all done to the max! China is prepping the way for how its done.

graeme15b · 2020-11-22T23:03:01Z

BlackCartouche China is strange case in that regard. Part of it is a firewall against western meddling, part of it is control and maintaining the status quo, part of it is western governments taking on their system to maintain the status quo and so on, methinks. Question is, why do they have to go to these extremes?

But they are heavy in all the things our soon-overtly One World Gov love to do things; the surveillance tech, the regimented urban-centric planning and psychology, hyper-automation, citizen obedience programmes, the robots (real and human ones) etc - all done to the max!

Well, maybe? Why not get the jump on everyone else if the wind is blowing in that direction? Makes good business sense...

HashAttack2 · 2020-11-22T23:13:48Z

graeme15b I think the Western powers admire how the Chinese can control their population, there is a strong willingness to adopt their strategies

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-23T07:19:47Z

graeme15b

Question is, why do they have to go to these extremes?

In addition to pedestrian reasons of having a very high population count to keep organised and to keep in check. I would also consider because China is the oldest continuous civilisation on Earth, and its gonna count for something very meaningful regards 4D STS control and manipulation.

Why not get the jump on everyone else if the wind is blowing in that direction?

I don't get the impression the Chinese think about the rest of the world including the West, in those terms. The Chinese have a curiously firm self-assured self-confidence in themselves which doesn't seem to get swayed by the outside world. I would like to presume it to be hubris on their part, but I think it is not.

I think the Western powers admire how the Chinese can control their population

They are in awe!

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-23T08:22:45Z

Niall

an unlikely 'cell' or 'front'

I wish add: Soon these will become obsolete terms when it comes to inferring or implying such things to the BIG world players in their pushing forth for overt One World Government control together, to all gel together in the ramping up in its more-overt 'obviousness' so as to become accepting into the human mass consciousness, all spun under the premise of it actually "a good thing" that other great nations, those nations who actively help further the Covid Scam and promote the Climate Agenda, all of them, will become more and more involved in each others' governments, behind the scenes for now (a la Fort Detrick - Wuhan Biolabs which got this whole ball rolling) for the greater future good... I can foresee the word "infiltrate" will be synonymous with the more benevolent word "involvement" in this regard.

Give it another year or two, after a few more 'bumps' in the road between East vs West (which will likely be more to do with wrangling out Putin if he doesn't play ball) before the Chinese will become more recognised as a leading shining example of progressive 'goodness' for Planet Earth as they clean up their air in their megalopolises - for Queen Greta to sing praises to.

Then involvement in Western governments, and visa versa too, to undermine 'homegrown' leaders like Trump, will not be seen as being insidious but in fact, and in its One World cultural-Marxist agenda too, will be lauded!

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-23T13:12:13Z

BlackCartouche @Niall. Lol, but I see you've already covered as much, elsewhere.

graeme15b · 2020-11-23T21:00:36Z

BlackCartouche Well, as I see it, the situation regarding China isn't that clear cut. For example, while western puppet governments have adopted China's digital control system and aim to implement a social credit system, they hate China's persistent rejection of the neoliberal economic model. Also, while the west is decimating the middle class, China has been expanding theirs.

I agree that there is already some planetary government in place, but I think 'they' don't always have an agreed upon agenda or road map to get there, while the top level players may watch the chess match and tweak things here and there for the overall benefit of their agenda, which happens to be to stay at the top of the dung heap. I think on that, there is agreement.

I would also consider because China is the oldest continuous civilisation on Earth, and its gonna count for something very meaningful regards 4D STS control and manipulation.

Maybe?...On the other hand, could be wishful thinking?

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-23T21:32:13Z

graeme15b Nothing is clear cut, and hasn't been for thousands of years. I think you're still in pre-Covid mode when looking at the way the world governments work, interact with each other, and how they run their own societies. Ok, much is still in pre-Covid mode at the moment (we forget we're only 9 months into this!), but the wheels are set in motion to go all the way now.

By about 2025 you won't be thinking those things anymore.

could be wishful thinking?

We'll find out soon enough.

graeme15b · 2020-11-23T22:20:04Z

BlackCartouche Oh dear...

You seem to be wishfully thinking here. No one knows what is going to happen by about 2025. Believing in fixed futures can and does restrict the creative flow and erodes consciousness and will power. The universe is open! The PTB need to sell their programmes in order to implement them. I wouldn't help them!!!

I think we have had a similar conversation sometime ago?

HashAttack2 · 2020-11-23T22:40:51Z

BlackCartouche Klaus Schwab & His Great Fascist Reset - [Link]
Klaus Schwab, Thierry Malleret, Covid-19: The Great Reset

Radical changes of such consequence are coming that some pundits have referred to a ‘before coronavirus’ (BC) and ‘after coronavirus’ (AC) era. We will continue to be surprised by both the rapidity and unexpected nature of these changes – as they conflate with each other, they will provoke second-, third-, fourth- and more-order consequences, cascading effects and unforeseen outcomes. In so doing, they will shape a ‘new normal’ radically different from the one we will be progressively leaving behind. Many of our beliefs and assumptions about what the world could or should look like will be shattered in the process

Good Optics · 2020-11-23T22:52:56Z

HashAttack2 And that entire shtick, along with every other thing those power-over mad STS vectors have to say, is yet another in their endless stream 'bids' for your free will agreement

Rowan Cocoan · 2020-11-23T22:53:18Z

HashAttack2 BC & AC Kinda Before After Christ sounding, eh? RC

Good Optics · 2020-11-23T23:24:58Z

HashAttack2 Let me clarify a bit, if I may:

Radical changes of such consequence are coming that some pundits have referred to a ‘Before Coronavirus Bullshit’ (BCB) and ~~‘After Coronavirus’ (AC) era~~ 'Added Coronavirus Bullshit' (ACB) era.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-24T00:17:31Z

graeme15b I'm not wishful thinking anything. We will find out soon enough... thats obvious. Things are moving in the direction of extreme changes, and fast.

No one knows what is going to happen by about 2025.

Thats right, no one knows... But I'm damn certain its nothing like the status quo we've all been used to disseminating here on SOTT the last 15 years. A lot will happen by 2025, no-one needs a crystal ball for that. Just simply observing what's trending all around: Deep State is more blatant than ever before and will continue to become more and more so. Its a form of wishful thinking to NOT think that such extreme changes will occur well beyond our current capacity for understanding of what our world is headed into by 2025. Just look at the last 9 months alone... And another 48 months more of this?? What else is going to stop it bar all out war?

Only natural cataclysm will stop this train now, as trending... or a real plague might justify all this is a good prep course after all, which is also likely... But the results will be the same for all intents and purposes: NOT great for those on 3D Planet Earth.

Believing in fixed futures can and does restrict the creative flow and erodes consciousness and will power.

I don't believe in fixed futures. You wrongfully assume I do because is say I know by 2025 the world is beyond what you think it is now.

The universe is open!

So lets all pack up our bags and leave SOTT then.

But just remember the Cs say Humanity is facing a unique opportunity to transcend from 3rd to 4th Density... ALL of what is going on right now is directly tied into this. So don't forget it!

The PTB need to sell their programmes in order to implement them. I wouldn't help them!!!

Getting stuck in believing in soon-to-be outdated geo-politics is another way to help them. No thanks!

Part of the problem is we've gotten too used to thinking the way we do about how things are right now, the way governments are arranged and rearranged, and gotten too comfortable with thinking this way. Oh yes, we like to talk about One World Gov, but only if its tiptoeing. So when you speak about global superpowers rising and declining, yes you make much sense and give very, very valid contributions of value, but once we go post-Covid all the way, by about 2025, its gone...

But ok, maybe 2025 is a bit too soon for such high drama... so I tell you what Graeme, I'll be generous and say by 2030.

I think we have had a similar conversation sometime ago?

Similar and same can be a world of difference!

Rowan Cocoan · 2020-11-24T02:38:23Z

BlackCartouche I tell you what, the proverbial gang's all here on this one, such as G15b,. G.O., HA2, Niall, et al.

Love such discussions.If they can, 100 years from now, truth seeking SOTTypes (and hopefully SOTTites) might look back on the above and say: "How could they have known?', and/or "how could the proles have been so clueless?"

RC

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-24T11:34:31Z

Rowan Cocoan

Before After Christ

I'll be on the lookout for an Advent 'lockdown-countdown' calendar for this Christmas coming.

graeme15b · 2020-11-24T21:27:46Z

BlackCartouche

Thats right, no one knows... But I'm damn certain its nothing like the status quo we've all been used to disseminating here on SOTT the last 15 years. A lot will happen by 2025, no-one needs a crystal ball for that. Just simply observing what's trending all around: Deep State is more blatant than ever before and will continue to become more and more so. Its a form of wishful thinking to NOT think that such extreme changes will occur well beyond our current capacity for understanding of what our world is headed into by 2025. Just look at the last 9 months alone... And another 48 months more of this?? What else is going to stop it bar all out war?

No one is saying anything of the sort regarding the denying of extreme changes that are a happening. Sott has been articulating that for quite some time. Kinda stating the obvious.

I think you're still in pre-Covid mode when looking at the way the world governments work, interact with each other, and how they run their own societies. Ok, much is still in pre-Covid mode at the moment (we forget we're only 9 months into this!), but the wheels are set in motion to go all the way now.

I think you assume too much. The way the governments work might not have changed that much at all. It could be that it is more visible now, as they get more desperate to stay in control (and the wave)? Which translates into how they manage society currently.

I don't believe in fixed futures. You wrongfully assume I do because is say I know by 2025 the world is beyond what you think it is now.

No, you wrongfully give the impression you do, hereby me giving you the benefit of the doubt here. ''Ok, much is still in pre-Covid mode at the moment (we forget we're only 9 months into this!), but the wheels are set in motion to go all the way now.'' That strongly implies a successful outcome!...i.e, arrival at the intended destination. ''By about 2025 you won't be thinking those things anymore.'' Sort of lacks clarity but reinforces the ''implied'' successful outcome. You, me and many others might not be around in 2025? I hope we are of course, but just to make a point.

The issue I have stated above is the bone of contention here as far as I'm concerned.

But just remember the Cs say Humanity is facing a unique opportunity to transcend from 3rd to 4th Density... ALL of what is going on right now is directly tied into this. So don't forget it!

Again, you are stating the obvious, well at least it should be obvious to you now. Many commentators on Sott are aware of the Cs, as am I, and as you know only too well.

Getting stuck in believing in soon-to-be outdated geo-politics is another way to help them. No thanks!

Who is getting stuck? Another assumption. As Bill Cooper once said, you will never understand geo-politics if you don't factor in ''UFOs'' What do you think that means?!?!?!?!?!?!

So when you speak about global superpowers rising and declining, yes you make much sense and give very, very valid contributions of value, but once we go post-Covid all the way, by about 2025, its gone...

Well, who knows? Still, I'll agree on some of this, and some not. Maybe for some, maybe not for others. The point here is, you are unavailable now, aren't you? You are anticipating what may come, yet here you are now!!! WHAT NOW??? hmm, What now!!!. WHO governs you now? WHO??? Just WHO, or WHAT governs YOU!!!,,, NOW?

You have to look deeper me ol' son. That isn't meant as a poke in the eye, just constructive criticism. Anyway, good to see you back commenting here. Long may it continue.

graeme15b · 2020-11-24T21:37:28Z

Rowan Cocoan I haven't been as active here recently. Will be spending more time here again, soon.

Rowan Cocoan · 2020-11-24T21:41:01Z

graeme15b Thanks. Good news. Is needed.

A question:

Love such discussions.If they can, 100 years from now, truth seeking SOTTypes (and hopefully SOTTites) might look back on the above and say:

1)"How could they (SOTTites) have known?', and/or

2)"how could the proles have been so clueless?"

Weighting those two options (and presuming clueful discoverers, which is part of the definition of SOTTypes) which is more likely, 1) or 2)? (Objection. The question calls for speculation. Moreover, even if it doesn't, it amounts to a compound question (kinda) Objection granted, but which do you think more likely?)

RC

graeme15b · 2020-11-24T22:52:32Z

Rowan Cocoan Maybe elements of both.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-25T08:54:34Z

graeme15b

The issue I have stated above is the bone of contention here as far as I'm concerned.

Are you sure?? Because I'm not particularly fussed about being around now let alone in 2025. I don't have children. You do. So you have an immediate sense of heightened responsibility to still be here, intact, in 2025 for those dependent on you (if emotionally and psychologically dependent on you if they have flown the nest by then) those you love more than life itself. But my sense of responsibility is a little more removed via nephews and nieces, so its not as strong in me... of course I love them and want the best for them, and their mothers who are my sisters, but its not so deeply primed as instinctually driven on that most primal of instinct levels to still be here for them so I'm afforded a little more objectiveness about the things going on all around me in these regards than those would with children.

So when you responded:

The universe is open!

You weren't thinking objectively about this when you followed it on with:

The PTB need to sell their programmes in order to implement them. I wouldn't help them!!!

Which suggests you are afraid of the possible outcomes... as influenced through my STS anticipations?? - despite the Cs repeatedly telling you, me, us to all "sit back and enjoy the show" - because " JOY will follow...!"

So now that you know I know this, then you should now know I'm not really anticipating anything... But, they don't mean for us to literally sit back on our laurels with an actual jumbo family-bag of butterkist popcorn now, do they?... hmm?? Because its always darkest before the dawn and will get darker yet!!

You have to look deeper me ol' son.

and is why I'm here, Graeme... It's what its all about!!!

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-25T09:02:40Z

graeme15b

Anyway, good to see you back commenting here. Long may it continue.

Hope for the best, expect the worst

Some drink champagne, some die of thirst

No way of knowing which way it's going

Hope for the best, expect the worst!

Hope for the best, expect the worst

The world's a stage, we're unrehearsed

Some reach the top, friends, while others drop, friends

Hope for the best, expect the worst!

I knew a man who saved a fortune that was splendid

Then he died the day he'd planned to go and spend it

Shouting "Live while you're alive! No one will survive!"

Life is sorrow—here today and gone tomorrow

Live while you're alive, no one will survive—there's no guarantee

Hope for the best; expect the worst

You could be Tolstoy or Fannie Hurst

You take your chances; there are no answers

Hope for the best expect the worst!

I knew a man who saved a fortune that was splendid

Then he died the day he'd planned to go and spend it,

Shouting "Live while you're alive! No one will survive!"

Life is funny—Spend your money! Spend your money!

Live while you're alive, no one will survive—there's no guarantee

Hope for the best; expect the worst.

The rich are blessed; the poor are cursed

That is a fact, friends, the deck is stacked, friends

Hope for the best, expect the...

(Even with a good beginning, it's not certain that you're winning.

Even with the best of chances, they can kick you in the pantses)

Look out for the... Watch out for the worst! Hey!

graeme15b · 2020-11-25T20:54:03Z

BlackCartouche You should read my comment again. You failed to grasp what was written.

Are you sure?? Because I'm not particularly fussed about being around now let alone in 2025. I don't have children. You do. So you have an immediate sense of heightened responsibility to still be here, intact, in 2025 for those dependent on you (if emotionally and psychologically dependent on you if they have flown the nest by then) those you love more than life itself. But my sense of responsibility is a little more removed via nephews and nieces, so its not as strong in me... of course I love them and want the best for them, and their mothers who are my sisters, but its not so deeply primed as instinctually driven on that most primal of instinct levels to still be here for them so I'm afforded a little more objectiveness about the things going on all around me in these regards than those would with children.

For example.

No, you wrongfully give the impression you do, hereby me giving you the benefit of the doubt here. ''Ok, much is still in pre-Covid mode at the moment (we forget we're only 9 months into this!), but the wheels are set in motion to go all the way now.'' That strongly implies a successful outcome!...i.e, arrival at the intended destination. ''By about 2025 you won't be thinking those things anymore.'' Sort of lacks clarity but reinforces the ''implied'' successful outcome. You, me and many others might not be around in 2025? I hope we are of course, but just to make a point.

That is the bone of contention. What followed was just making a point.

Which suggests you are afraid of the possible outcomes... as influenced through my STS anticipations?? - despite the Cs repeatedly telling you, me, us to all "sit back and enjoy the show" - because " JOY will follow...!"

No, you have assumed incorrectly again. What I am getting at is, anything can happen. The future is open. Not that difficult to understand really.

graeme15b · 2020-11-25T21:44:17Z

graeme15b

So when you responded:
The universe is open!
You weren't thinking objectively about this when you followed it on with:
The PTB need to sell their programmes in order to implement them. I wouldn't help them!!!
Which suggests you are afraid of the possible outcomes... as influenced through my STS anticipations?? - despite the Cs repeatedly telling you, me, us to all "sit back and enjoy the show" - because " JOY will follow...!"

I don't get why you are so quick to jump the gun and assume how I am thinking (not objectively according to you) when you aren't really responding to what I said (whatever the reason). Think about what you have said here. Then you say this.

So now that you know I know this, then you should now know I'm not really anticipating anything... But, they don't mean for us to literally sit back on our laurels with an actual jumbo family-bag of butterkist popcorn now, do they? ... hmm??

I said earlier.

The PTB need to sell their programmes in order to implement them. I wouldn't help them!!!

All you have done here is reword what I have said, then turn around and say that I'm afraid of possible outcomes, and that I'm not thinking objectively. What's that all about?

I wouldn't go around pointing out other's thinking errors, whether existent or non-existent, when you have a multitude yourself! Just saying.

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-25T23:32:04Z

graeme15b There's a few different things here. I'll try keep it orderly.

So, going right back:

You seem to be wishfully thinking here. No one knows what is going to happen by about 2025. Believing in fixed futures can and does restrict the creative flow and erodes consciousness and will power. The universe is open! The PTB need to sell their programmes in order to implement them. I wouldn't help them!!!

This is interpreted by myself as you NOT be rhetorical here, certainly not for your own thoughtful musings as just 'putting it out there' as a open exclaimer to the Universe, but rather directing it at me directly, "guilty as charged" as exemplified by your 3 exclamation marks(!!!). Nothing about this rang of it being 'rhetorically' phrased to me, so who were your somewhat out-of-character triple exclamation marks intended for if not meant for me?

The way the governments work might not have changed that much at all. It could be that it is more visible now , as they get more desperate to stay in control (and the wave)?

I wouldn't dwell on theirs being "more desperate" too much in that way, because taking comfort in it could arise inside you, of their 'desperation' you wish for, which doesn't do much good when having to "pay strict attention right and left" in 'soul matters'... No, better to think on what GoodOptics touched on in relation to the forces of STS being "more visible now"...

power-over mad STS vectors have to say, is yet another in their endless stream 'bids' for your free will agreement

which is far more important a serious contender in matters of Consciousness to consider right now!

moving on...

No, you wrongfully give the impression you do, hereby me giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

Fair do's.

but the wheels are set in motion to go all the way now.'' That strongly implies a successful outcome!...i.e, arrival at the intended destination.

So to clarify; when I say "go all the way now" I was referring to inferring the fact there's no going back now!... Irrespective of some outcome, irrespective of intended destination (whatever either of those might be). It'll be negative for us, that much is extremely likely... enough to say what I say with confidence.

'By about 2025 you won't be thinking those things anymore.'' Sort of lacks clarity but reinforces the ''implied'' successful outcome.

I guess this is the difference between you and I regards "universe is open" or "future is open" statements. For me it has nothing much to do with any perceived successes of outcomes... whats the point? An overarching acknowledgement of great turmoil nigh upon us all is what matters. I really don't care about an open universe or open futures in its objective sense which I think you refer, because its simply not relevant to me, at least not until the great turmoils we are on course for have passed. And I doubt I'd be in my present incarnation when that passes.

Many commentators on Sott are aware of the Cs, as am I , and as you know only too well.

Right, and now its time to be more aware of the Cs, those of us who are already aware of them... those such like yourself. Because when you say:

As Bill Cooper once said, you will never understand geo-politics if you don't factor in ''UFOs''

it strikes me as you prioritizing geo-politics first and foremost above "UFOs" (high strangeness) when I think the focus should be more the other way round now. I think you ought to be focusing on 'high strangeness' a bit more than you do. Because, in fact, I think putting secondary focus on Earthen geo-politics to instead have shifted to a primary focus toward non-human/non-Earthly influences and activity, is actually going to be the much better way to help you, us to understand the unfolding geo-politic dramas ahead for Humankind.

I wouldn't go around pointing out other's thinking errors, whether existent or non-existent, when you have a multitude yourself!

I strongly disagree. I think we should ALL be pointing out each others thinking errors more so than ever before! Even if it means sounding outright hypocritical. I think its imperative we do now, and I welcome it should you point out mine. But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna make sure you're sure - so don't mistake my challenging you in my obnoxious self-importance as necessarily an out-of-hand dismissal.

Well, who knows? Still, I'll agree on some of this, and some not. Maybe for some, maybe not for others. The point here is, you are unavailable now, aren't you? You are anticipating what may come, yet here you are now!!! WHAT NOW??? hmm, What now!!!. WHO governs you now? WHO??? Just WHO, or WHAT governs YOU!!!,,, NOW?

I DO!!!

graeme15b · 2020-11-26T20:30:57Z

BlackCartouche

This is interpreted by myself as you NOT be rhetorical here, certainly not for your own thoughtful musings as just 'putting it out there' as a open exclaimer to the Universe, but rather directing it at me directly, "guilty as charged" as exemplified by your 3 exclamation marks(!!!). Nothing about this rang of it being 'rhetorically' phrased to me, so who were your somewhat out-of-character triple exclamation marks intended for if not meant for me?

Actually, that comment was put ''out there.'' It was put out there for you also, but wasn't 'directed' only at you. Sorry if it came across that way.

I wouldn't dwell on theirs being "more desperate" too much in that way, because taking comfort in it could arise inside you, of their 'desperation' you wish for, which doesn't do much good when having to "pay strict attention right and left" in 'soul matters'... No, better to think on what GoodOptics touched on in relation to the forces of STS being "more visible now"...

This is an example of what I'm getting at. So many thinking errors on your part. First, you assume that I would take comfort in their perceived desperation, and that I wish for it. You are too busy assuming what I am thinking, wishing etc, that my experience of this particular thread is that, you haven't engaged me in this debate at all. In short, it is getting tedious, and I don't intend to waste too much time on it. What you said regarding Good Optics comment, is pretty much what I said. You are hair splitting.

I guess this is the difference between you and I regards "universe is open" or "future is open" statements. For me it has nothing much to do with any perceived successes of outcomes... whats the point?

Again, you have assumed that I consider the universe is open with various successes of outcomes. Where is the comment where I list various successful outcomes in the 'universe is open' statements? Where?

Seems to me that the answer to that is, in your head. Sorry, but that is where its at as far as I can tell. This is the crux of what I'm getting at. You spend too much time on this thread telling me what I think, what I wish for, and all that, you haven't engaged with me in this debate at all.

it strikes me as you prioritizing geo-politics first and foremost above "UFOs" (high strangeness) when I think the focus should be more the other way round now. I think you ought to be focusing on 'high strangeness' a bit more than you do. Because, in fact, I think putting secondary focus on Earthen geo-politics to instead have shifted to a primary focus toward non-human/non-Earthly influences and activity, is actually going to be the much better way to help you, us to understand the unfolding geo-politic dramas ahead for Humankind.

It does, does it? Well, how can anyone get so much wrong in one thread, and then offer a much better way to help me? I don't recall asking for it!!!

You can't see the woods for the trees as far as I can tell. Geo-politics and the hyperdimensional control system is THE SAME large ball of wax!!! You should consider that, before you go on some crusade to help anyone, but start with yourself, please! I could also add that the hyperdimensional realm is beyond the ken, nevermind reach of human beings, so geo-politics is far more accessible. What did Don Juan Matus say: that the scorcerers of old thought that facing the infinite was the ultimate challenge of the warrior, but that they were wrong. Facing petty tyrants in everyday life was the ulimate challenge of the man of knowledge, and it was this misunderstanding that destroyed them. Or something like that. So,... I have to disagree with you, again.

I strongly disagree. I think we should ALL be pointing out each others thinking errors more so than ever before! Even if it means sounding outright hypocritical. I think its imperative we do now, and I welcome it should you point out mine. But that doesn't mean I'm not gonna make sure you're sure - so don't mistake my challenging you in my obnoxious self-importance as necessarily an out-of-hand dismissal.

I have pointed out some of yours, and as I said, when pointing out someones thinking errors, first try to discern if the thinking error that you perceive, isn't actually your own faulty reading of a situation or person. There is pleny of that above. Hence why I said this:

I wouldn't go around pointing out other's thinking errors, whether existent or non-existent, when you have a multitude yourself! Just saying.

Now do you see?

I strongly disagree. I think we should ALL be pointing out each others thinking errors more so than ever before!

Now, most people here with reasonably open minds do not really need anyone telling them when their thinking is in error. A hint or another viewpoint is usually enough to do the job. I have seen it many times, from both ends (giving/receiving). Only a reasonably open minded person will get that though, and only authoritarian followers need a self appointed authority figure telling them this sort of stuff,... well usually. They are welcome to it!

I'd rather not fall out with you over this nonsense, so I am gonna wrap it up with this. Most of my comments are observations, yes, just observations. Try remember that next time!

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-26T23:11:17Z

graeme15b So I went back to see what set me off and found it was this:

Maybe?...On the other hand, could be wishful thinking?

This triggered me because I took this as you demeaning my observations as it reminded me of the last conversation we had about my perceived "wishful thinking" programmes caste in the negative - which you then go and reinforce my suspicion when you immediately followed it up with that very reminder!

I think we have had a similar conversation sometime ago?

Which certainly wasn't helped when you had patronised me only a few sentences back in that same response to me

Oh dear...

as being the second Gemini to patronise me this same way in the last few days, I might add.

I would have brushed it off too, there and then, and ending it off with a bit of cringy humour or some such to jolly things up and leave off on a positive because I respect you. But that main middle part in that response of yours, the part-ending with the exclamation marks, the one I keep bringing up, it bugs me to no end and pulls me back... against my will.

You seem to be wishfully thinking here. No one knows what is going to happen by about 2025. Believing in fixed futures can and does restrict the creative flow and erodes consciousness and will power. The universe is open! The PTB need to sell their programmes in order to implement them. I wouldn't help them!!!

Maybe I'm insecure, thus me being overly sensitive to perceived nuanced attacks not directly directed at me - which you might not be aware of... However, I will nevertheless insist this has, for me at least, exposed to me a little of your mindscape as passed on here as your assumptions, even if through mine in all that is going on today and each our respective placements in the Universe. I then became fixated on this without caring to explain myself. And now here we are.

I won't push this any further as I can see it is wrong of me to do so. Nor do I have the mental ability or capacity to approach it correctly and pursue it in the way it would deserve, even if you permitted it... For, nor am I 'right' enough.

I'd rather not fall out with you over this nonsense, so I am gonna wrap it up with this.

I'd rather not either, wrapped up then.

Most of my comments are observations, yes, just observations. Try remember that next time!

I'll try to remember in future.

Goodnight

graeme15b · 2020-11-28T07:12:37Z

BlackCartouche I read your comment last night, and decided to sleep on it.

A few observations.

This triggered me because I took this as you demeaning my observations as it reminded me of the last conversation we had about my perceived "wishful thinking" programmes caste in the negative - which you then go and reinforce my suspicion when you immediately followed it up with that very reminder!

From this, I think you mean the conversation round about the start of the lockdown, April perhaps? From my memory, you initiated the wishful thinking accusation at me, but that is besides the point. The point is, we are both guilty of it. So, you aren't an innocent bystander in all of this.

Maybe I'm insecure, thus me being overly sensitive to perceived nuanced attacks not directly directed at me - which you might not be aware of...

You can be sure that I'm aware of it. If you have a think back, you will find yourself guilty of such behaviour.

Posted too early, more to follow...

graeme15b · 2020-11-28T07:32:21Z

However, I will nevertheless insist this has, for me at least, exposed to me a little of your mindscape as passed on here as your assumptions, even if through mine in all that is going on today and each our respective placements in the Universe. I then became fixated on this without caring to explain myself. And now here we are.

You can insist all you like. You are still way off the mark.

Perhaps it would be better to understand, that if you f*ck with anyone, they are gonna f*ck with you. If you don't like that, then don't do it. As for me, I know myself well enough to know that I don't treat anyone like that, unless they have been 'asking' for it.

Anyway, its alright to disagree with someone, offer a different viewpoint, etc, without the personal attacks, after all, that is what this site is all about.

So, all in all and more importantly, I'm willing to wipe the slate clean and start afresh. Its your call!

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-28T09:56:39Z

graeme15b I would never presume myself to be innocent in anything. I presume myself guilty as sin, actually... always have. In fact, its a problem I have always possessed and embodied within myself... like a masochist.

But one thing I know to be is objective for certain; we are ALL in this 3D STS shit-show together now, of which SOTT is at the frontlines of on the internet, so there is no such thing as a bystander here. And to be an 'innocent bystander' of an age of accountability is an oxymoron. This is not subjective to me. It is objective.

Perhaps it would be better to understand, that if you f*ck with anyone, they are gonna f*ck with you.

I've NEVER NOT understood that... So this,

If you don't like that, then don't do it.

in and of itself is a non-issue for me... because, very often, its doing the things we don't like which must be done to clean things out - which I think is more imperative to do now than ever before! This is something you need to appreciate is always going on in the background of my thinking, should we engage conversation with each other in future. However, I always intended to stay within the boundaries of mutual respect even if I ride it to the edge, so when you say

without the personal attacks

I am sorry you felt I personally attacked you because it was certainly NOT my intention. But, it can be very hard to know when, or how, and in which context is acceptable to speak frank about another, with each other, when a debate gets heated and rides right up to that boundary of a more 'interpersonal' nature... of what is acceptable and what is not, without any such 'attacks' getting too personal and the feeling of mutual respect falling away... and for both parties to keep in mind that what one person might find to be within acceptable bounds, the other may not. So it is a very fine line to walk indeed, and an all too easy one to tip over into 'wrong' without meaning to. So I hope I've learned something there.

As it is said about "intentions"... is to then observe the RESULTS of those intentions. So...

I'm willing to wipe the slate clean and start afresh. Its your call!

and because of this

we are both guilty of it.

I wholeheartedly accept!

However; please keep in mind I will continue to be very straight-up and direct here on SOTT!!! -- As I hope you will continue to do so, also.

But to learn to do so whilst maintaining the notion of mutual respect and understanding (or at least attempted understanding) for each other... For we will likely need to support each other, here, more than ever before if we are to continue fighting The Good Fight in these trying, testing times.

Good day to you, Graeme... I think I'll be taking most of the weekend off from commenting. And lets never forget...

ALL IS LESSONS.

graeme15b · 2020-11-29T08:56:30Z

BlackCartouche Ok, good.

But one thing I know to be is objective for certain; we are ALL in this 3D STS shit-show together now, of which SOTT is at the frontlines of on the internet, so there is no such thing as a bystander here. And to be an 'innocent bystander' of an age of accountability is an oxymoron. This is not subjective to me. It is objective.

One thing here to point out is, when I said you were not an innocent bystander, I wasn't generalising. Seems to me that you are shifting gears mid thread from micro issues (dialogue between you & I) to macro issues (Sott & the world at large) Apply the appropriate context please!

I am sorry you felt I personally attacked you because it was certainly NOT my intention. But, it can be very hard to know when, or how, and in which context is acceptable to speak frank about another, with each other, when a debate gets heated and rides right up to that boundary of a more 'interpersonal' nature... of what is acceptable and what is not, without any such 'attacks' getting too personal and the feeling of mutual respect falling away... and for both parties to keep in mind that what one person might find to be within acceptable bounds, the other may not. So it is a very fine line to walk indeed, and an all too easy one to tip over into 'wrong' without meaning to. So I hope I've learned something there.

I think your point here is valid, as it goes.

I see it differently however. As I see it, when one has an emotional investment in ones viewpoint, then the line between offering a different viewpoint and personal attack is blurrly indeed. This applies in the giving and receiving. There might not be much difference in the recipients experience of such. However, when one is open to truth and the possibility of error, regardless of personal viewpoints, with no skin in the game, then the line between disagreement and attack is pretty clear, in my view. The 4th way path also requires that all is made conscious, including the unconscious, and that one is conscious of others. So, in this regard, there can be no accidents regarding unintentional attack, etc.

A tall order to be sure, but something worth aiming for I reckon.

Thats my view anyway.

Have a good weekend.

Rowan Cocoan · 2020-11-29T09:29:01Z

graeme15b & BC: I have been (amongst many others, I'm sure) notified of each follow-up of the above. Early on, I read along, (almost commented*) and after about 2 comments each, I stopped reading as it seemed ... unreasonable to do, intruding, whatever.

Glad to see the closings (I've only merely glimpsed at them) but I've gotta say, I've never seen anywhere else displayed such a proper resolution of such a discussion . I am not at all surprised that it was here, of course.

SOTTites RULE!

R.C.

*Some claim I say to much, but I don't know how they could get that.

RC

graeme15b · 2020-11-29T09:56:31Z

Rowan Cocoan

*Some claim I say to much, but I don't know how they could get that.

Me neither

Joking, of course.

Rowan Cocoan · 2020-11-29T10:00:12Z

graeme15b And, thank you for not pointing out that it should have been "too" much.

I'll never live it down!

RC

BlackCartouche · 2020-11-29T12:44:25Z

graeme15b

Apply the appropriate context please!

I am still learning this. Thanks for the opportunity...

A tall order to be sure, but something worth aiming for I reckon.

Yes. Absolutely!

(almost commented*)

Obviously I can't speak for Graeme (or anyone else for that matter - even if I think I should!) - but your untimely input is always welcome as far as I'm concerned, Ro... ('less i sez otherwise... then its not )

Enjoy the rest of the Lord's Day... the both of you's.

graeme15b · 2020-11-29T14:09:55Z

Obviously I can't speak for Graeme (or anyone else for that matter - even if I think I should!) - but your untimely input is always welcome as far as I'm concerned, Ro...

I'll second that!

graeme15b · 2020-11-29T14:17:09Z

Rowan Cocoan Just the curse, or blessing, of the 'Gemini syndrome' in effect.

Your input is always highly regarded as far as I'm concerned. As are you!

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