MindMatters: The Impenetrable Fortress of Thoughtitude: When Belief Trumps Truth

Brakar From a common-sense standpoint, absolutely. And that's what matters in most cases where it becomes an issue.

hkoehli there are different types of Truth?

HVACTech many realities. Truth is LOVE.

Feelings trump WIN, out-maneuvre, eclipse belief or truth depending which it is associated with.

hkoehli hmm, well, absolutely.

taking a "common" - sense(?) stance will in most cases probably be beneficial

Brakar nice place to turn to; [Link] when stars don't line up

hkoehli Highly doubtful. If we live in 3d world where hypothetically 7d exists, you probably going to guess "fact" or "common sense" by pure luck and coincedence, by simply not having the rest of the reference points/awareness not available to us.

agni There is a part of you that recognises truth but it is not the mind, and you don’t have to have all the reference points. Gut feeling is real. We are emotional beings. And our conscience is there as a permanent reminder of truth and non truth. We just have to remember and practice using it.

Joyly i would not trust "feeling" either. How you know it's your own feeling ? One can feel for many reasons, drugs, food, frequencies are among few that can influence it. Everyone feels differently about different things.

agni All true. It takes practice but is possible.

agni Common sense facts vs belief. A man believes he can fly. When he jumps off a tall building he will fall and die. I don't need pure luck or coincidence to figure that one out. Neither do you. It is not that difficult.

Belief: "Jesus is the most documented historical personality ever." Fact: "He is not, and in fact there is no comparison when looking at the evidence for actual historical personalities."

hkoehli with all respect, i think "common sence" might have its shortcomings when it comes down to deciding what is fact/belief, "truth"/axioms/etc.

eg in the medieval ages they thought the earth was flat and there were witches that should be burned.

how would "common sence" look like at that time do you think?

btw; proof(?) that 1+1=2; [Link]

hkoehli your reflections around those subjects was however what i really appreciated in your previous mind matters. (my interpretation); "everyone is trying to sell you something".

hkoehli hmm. i wonder if common sence would have done the trick here; [Link]

Brakar When I say common sense, I do not mean popular consensus. The idea that the world was flat was a belief. But notice what I said: "in most cases". Without access to a wide enough set of data, and a wide enough perspective, it can be difficult to see things that aren't obvious. So sure, many may have argued that it is 'common sense' that the world is flat, when in fact, all they could really say with any reasonable degree of certainty is that the earth seems flat within a certain limited geographical area. THAT would be a fact. An extrapolation based on that fact does not create a new fact.

As for witches, it is possible that witches existed (after all, they exist today, we just think they're harmless). That fact has no bearing on whether or not witches should be burned.

Again, it is not that difficult. I am talking about very simple, basic things here. Fact: I'm typing on a keyboard. Fact: there is a screen on which my words are appearing. Fact: my lips are closed.

So, to reiterate my point, there are VERY simple facts relating to issues like the ones we discussed on our shows. But BELIEFS block people from accepting those facts. Such thinking errors are akin to denying that I am typing on a keyboard, or that my lips are closed, etc.

Brakar anyhow; first and LAST of this; [Link]

hkoehli common sense has it's limits, with no defined border. Sure, i might agree with your statement about flying/jumping and Jesus. But when it stops being a common sense ? Was it the Ouspensky who mentioned 2d view of a bycicle wheel ? Where 2d residents observe the projection of wheel spindle that represened as dots appearing at certain frequency as wheel rotates. Their observations are "scientific observation/fact" from their perspective. Is going to help them understand that the object that they observe is a wheel ?

Joyly Unfortunately, not every one has a conscience. In difficult times, people who do have one are apt to override it for self preservation sake. Theft and crime soar during hard times.

JB17 Everyone has a conscience, but it is a choice to follow it. When people are in fear and act in it, very few are driven by their conscience then.

Joyly Psychopaths do not have a conscience otherwise they would not be able to torture and commit the crimes they do. I doubt that one chooses to become a psychopath. Such people often exhibit cruel behaviour at an early age.

JB17 you are right; I don’t think they consciously chose it. I don’t believe they were made that way; it can only be due to early childhood treatment - neglect, abuse, torture, etc.

hkoehli

as for witches, it is possible that witches existed (after all, they exist today, we just think they're harmless). that fact has no bearing on whether or not witches should be burned.

hmm. so witches exist today. is that to be considered a "fact" or a "belief"?

the fact/[belief?] that "we" think they/[witches] are harmless has no bearing on whether or not witches should be burned.

hmm. that is a real mess of a statement imo. but yes, witches (or any) should be burned unless they are uttermost dangerous. and yes, what "we" think should be irrelevant - but then; would not also "we" be irrelevant?

Brakar btw, with regard to the belief in "truth", i can only think of plato who might have formulated a relatively commonly accepted theory about that subject. [Link] (place two "experts" of "truth" in the same room and wait for the nuke to detonate)

LindaMay Feelings are artifacts - they're like a neon arrow, pointing you to your own truth - never THE truth. They can't eclipse anything. They are valuable orienting tools, if paid attention to.

Joyly WunderBar!!

Was just comin' to look for you, andxany other with open-flow emotional world

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LindaMay After Joseph Allen I found Flow’Jae another rapper. Thanks for the concert. It was lunch time.

Joyly

You wrote beautifully Chérie!!

Joyly if I stated, that ' Truth' was subject to perspective... would you agree with me?

HVACTech Definitely not. I am only interested in God’s Truth; anything else is personal opinion.

LindaMay He usually draws me into his web for the sole purpose of an attack - so we will see - but I could not leave the question of truth hanging.

Joyly present moment living 👌

LindaMay Checking out. Sleep 💤

LindaMay Yes. Present moment living means being truthful in the moment.

Joyly 👌 Bonne Nuit chérie😍

Brakar

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Dwoods44 Hi David. Thanks for your good summation of a lot of the points we try and make on the show. As for how to "make people aware of their belief systems and where they [are] mislead" - all we can do is to continue talking about it here and elsewhere, and make the information as accessible as possible based on our best understanding of it. The rest is really up to the person as you know. We can't do it for them, but we can increase our own understanding and try to strengthen the signal so that, if perhaps in some non-linear way, more individuals may pick it up and learn that there is much much more to know than what they may have been lead to believe.

smertzasmert i'm uncultured and... unculturable, say that à la Québecoise lolll

smertzasmert Partly - our parents pass on their beliefs from conception - then there is a societal factor. But it is our choice; just because that is what we got does not mean we have to stay that. The truth is available to everyone regardless of culture. It is an individual choice.

smertzasmert If this determinism were true to the extent that it excluded the possibility of thoughts not determined by culture, then it would mean your comment was not a product of your own thinking but a product of your culture. But then we cannot explain ideas and thoughts which seem to arise from within a culture which are opposed to it or orthogonal to normal ways of thinking or perceiving in that culture. Which means culture at best can only be part of the answer and not the whole of it.

Might want to give the show another listen and consider how what's being said there applies to you.

Highland Fleet Lute hmm. i have (allmost) allways appreciated your posts. (most of them). this one was however particularly good imo. 😘👍⚘

Highland Fleet Lute

families and extended families are made up of people who are all very different from each other. My auntie was very different from my mother and my uncle was totally different from both of them. My brother was quiet and studious. I was the loudest kid you could imagine. And that is original. Much in the same way that for some inexplicable reason, one newborn cries all the time, another never cries, another never stops eating, and so on and so forth.

My theory is every set of parents birthing offspring are each their own potential to seed a new tribal ecosystem, and by Nature's design. Every set of parents are like stand-alone self-contained mini-civilisation containers, or 'creators' of a new sub-race and 'culture' by their own brood. And the more children they bear, the more variety increases within the sub-race and 'culture' newly created by them - through the greater number of offspring produced and therefor the greater the likelihood of the basic components needed for a functioning society is covered, all via the different unique personality traits of the siblings all grown up together; the builder, the doctor, the engineer, the farmer, the technician, the lumberjack etc... variety is covered, but is going to get very incestuous very quickly if they only stick within their own 'field of influence'.

parzival Good point. "Dominion" relates to "late 17th century: from French, denoting a hood worn by priests in winter, probably based on Latin dominus ‘lord, master’. "

RC

parzival Thanks P. Yeah she has a moral compass set in the right direction.

nedlud free will is the remembering our word/talk as we signed up for this incarnation and since we survived the transition, WALKING our word/talk.

nedlud Free will is simply the ability to chose. Every animal exercises it. Given the choice between raw beef or cooked, my cat knows which one to chose.

JB17

Free will is simply the ability to chose

Re-post. Derren Brown: A Toy's Story - How To Control The Nation....[Link]

Highland Fleet Lute I'm very suspicious of all that showbiz stuff, with all those cameras and an audience, and the goddamm giraffe, he could hardly have failed. (sorry, I'm sceptical)

I don't contest that many people are highly influenced by what they see on TV and are subjected to subliminal messages but away from the screen people, and cats, do exercise their freewill all the time.

JB17

away from the screen people, and cats, do exercise their freewill all the time.

What was it that influenced you to lose the space between 'free' and 'will'?

Highland Fleet Lute Nothing subconscious! The man who assembled my custom made Linux had a sledge hammer for a thumb. The space bar doesn't go smoothly. I have to stop every few words to separate the jumble otherwise the text is Welsh.

JB17 Whenever I see 'freewill' instead of 'free will', I always get the feeling someone's trying to sell me some new kind of witer, briter, washing powder or something.

I like the sound of Welsh: Llangollen, Llanderfel, Llandyfrdwy, Llanuwchllyn, Rhosllanerchrugog.

Linux, eh? I've no experience. What are the pros and cons?

Highland Fleet Lute Linux was around before Mr Hates introduced Windows. Initially for Geeks who develop the software which is free. You don't have to go out and buy new versions of Windows for 300bucks every few years. You just install one of their many different distributions which are then upgraded automatically for free when they change.

Wanting to deprive Hates of finance I had my computer made by a "Free Soft Ware Society" company. It just runs Ubuntu but I could have had Windows also installed had I wanted.

You can install Linux on you computer if you have room.

JB17 Another name for 'Hates': How about 'Grates'? He certainly does that.

RC

Highland Fleet Lute & JB17:

Remember this CLASSIC Dilbert re Unix? [Link]
RC

RUListening SOTTonian. I like it! RC

RUListening I meant to say (FOR) the panelists, I need a proofreader.

Rowan Cocoan I'm glad you like RC.

RUListening It somehow sounds less criminal than SOTTite.

RC

RUListening Pushing false collectivism is an act of sadism towards the sane minority who come back here every day feeling like they walked into a room full of glue-sniffers.

luis_rcoelho Josephus (pagan Jew) was edited to mention him. Tacitus (pagan) mentioned some sort of Chrestus. But that's it. I'm mentioning Jesus right now and it isn't changing the fact of his existence or non-existence.

!!!

hobnyeba Exactly. Except for the dubious Testimonium Flavianum ostensibly published in the 90s in Antiquities, when it comes to actual works written in the 1st century, there are NO pagan sources that mention Jesus. Period. It's pretty remarkable that Christians have managed to convince themselves that the historical record is stronger than it actually is, considering it's entirely absent.

hkoehli I worked in the world's largest religious publishing house from 1989 through 2000, and I can UNEQUIVOCALLY state that there was NO supposed 'Testimonium Flavianum' published during that time!

Oops.. You're talking about the 90s CE? Nevermind.* Mea Culpa...

R.C.

*RC's Emily Litella imitation.

RC

Rowan Cocoan Yeah, 90s AD.

hkoehli Sorry buddy. Good attempt, but based on incomplete information.

There are two references to Jesus called Christ in Josephus. The first is the debated and probably spurious Christian interpolation of Testimonium Flavianum (18.3.3).

The second in the no-longer disputed reference to "James the brother of Jesus, who is called Christ" (20.9.1). Almost all modern scholarship on this passage considers it to be 100% authentic and not a later insertion or edit.

Sorry mate. Fact just trumped your belief.

Tsidkenu Nonsense. It's disputed as heck.

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cracker All I'll say is that I've seen a higher number of individuals I would consider open minded on the Trump half of the equation than I have on the Biden side these last 4 years. But when it comes to certain issues, you'll see the same kind of blindness to conflicting information in each 'group'. That's just human nature.

hkoehli Absolutely! I know from experience that it is far easier with Trumpists to 'agree to disagree' than with Bribem - types.

RC

JB17 that was a mean thing to say. shame on you!

as it is obvious that you like to jack with Christians, why don't you try to jack with me. eh? I am a Deist.

or,

are you bright enough to understand your own personification of Jesus as a pagan?

Jesus being the personification of the Sun and its journey through the seasons.

methinks thou art is in, over thy head, sir.

HVACTech Suggest you watch the film.

There are many different versions of Jesus. Many books that have interpreted the life of a man called Jesus.

Iv'e read "The Dead Sea Scrolls" and "The Secret Teachings of Jesus, the Four Gnostic Gospels"

Also "Jesus The Man" and "Jesus of The Apocalypse" by Theologian Barbara Thiering. "Jesus the Last of the Pharaohs" and "Jesus King of Edessa" by Historian Ralph Ellis. There are also many other interpretations I haven't read.

JB17 talk to me when you understand the parables.

can you draw a tangent between them and Aesop's fables? you remind me of, 'the allegory of the cave' Plato.

seriously dude, was there ever a library at Alexandria?

or,

was Alexander just a myth?

HVACTech What makes you imagine that I am incapable of appreciating, or indifferent to words of wisdom ?

The parables are moral truths recounted in a simple manner for children and the childish minds of the time.

HVACTech

that was a mean thing to say. shame on you!

as it is obvious that you like to jack with Christians, why don't you try to jack with me. eh?

LOL. That didn't sound very christian.

One of the chief motivating factors for American Christianity is a wish to keep one toe in The Old Country.

Some of it is similar in a way to modern New Age-y types who identify with paganism, wicca, and running around Stonehenge in a bunch of OMO-man duds.

A desire for a link with antiquity is not necessarily a bad thing, but frequently the results are quite comical.

HVACTech I don't think you watched the video but just read my text and immediately flexed your muscles, feeling I was insulting your belief system.

This is what the Mind Matters discussion was all about, belief and the closed mind.

HVACTech HV... took a whole12 mins of your being back and there YOU ARE HISSING YER SPIT AGAIN!! smoke a pipe or have it smoked fer you.

HVACTech LOL. That didn't sound very christian

I try to play nice when I can friend. it would help a lot if you would stop flirting with Joyly.

HVACTech gad, I would delete this post if I could.. Women.

Joyly did you realize this through the parables?

HVACTech did I tell you that I Love you today?

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jjjj I don't see how Cobb's conception of some Marxist economic model is related to or should have any bearing on our appreciation of DRG's work in process philosophy. DRG supports and promotes the global warming narrative. He's wrong to do so because there is no anthropogenic global warming and that narrative is used to serve the agenda of global elites who wish to restrict national and individual freedoms, but we still appreciate his other work.

Our dislike of commies is because of their support and promotion of a failed and unviable economic alternative to capitalism. Therefore it doesn't matter to us, or to me anyways, who promotes the idea. They're wrong and being used by people that wish to control how others think and act.

jjjj "libertarian communists"? By definition, such a thing ain't possible!

Your overstatement hurts your claim.

RC

jjjj I haven't read Cobb's works on communism, so couldn't comment. There are certain communists I have no problem with. For example, commies who may think some form of communism is ideal, but who don't try to impose their system on others who disagree with them. Also, small groups who choose to live communally. It's a problem of scale. Communist households and small groups are viable. Communist nations are not.

Rowan Cocoan You might find libcom.org enlightening

adanie15 Global warming debates aside, I think it is pretty apparent that capitalist growth (which at a 3% annual rate would make the economy 19 times it present size in 100 years and about 7 trillion times its present size in 1000 years) cannot go on indefinitely.

Further, if consciousness is evolving, as Aurobindo, de Chardin, Barfield and many others have argued, I doubt that society will consist of atomized individuals competing against each other to survive forever.

jjjj I think it is pretty apparent that capitalist growth (which at a 3% annual rate would make the economy 19 times it present size in 100 years and about 7 trillion times its present size in 1000 years) cannot go on indefinitely.

Exactly! A point I've made since around age 16 my conviction behind which only became stronger when I was done with economics in college.

RC

hkoehli I would have a problem with the imposition on those who don’t agree, which could happen in a small group like a family or commune etc.

It is the imposition of ‘new laws’ being imposed on us now that we object to.

I can envision a communistic or socialist system run by a very loving dictator; don’t know anyone on earth at present who could do the job though.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Joyly I can envision a communistic or socialist system run by a very loving dictator

That one's what you might call 'The race track to Hell'.

BlackCartouche what a mirror we re looking at eh BC!! DISGUSTING imho

LindaMay Explain. Don't just throw that out without giving a reason. You might have a valid point for all I know. So do both of us a favour and EXPLAIN.

You can dissect me any how you want, LindaMay.

BlackCartouche VERY valid. What is going on outside is mirroring what is going INSIDE us. ALL of us. This is OUR mirror. As above so below. We created this horrific mess.... shall i continue BC? (The Four Agreements teaches all about taking things personally; and stopping that habit if one feels so inclined BC..., i dont make personal HITS. I ve always very much appreciated your brilliant mind's presence here chez sott.

Favour? really?

LindaMay Yes, really. Because 94% of your comments are emoji one-liners that are either random light-weight good-feelz which just gets bounced about SOTT with negligible affect/effect in the way of raising Love n Light frequencies on here (presumably your intentions?) or are those 'personal hits' you say you don't do. But maybe we differ on the definition of what 'personal hits' mean?... It doesn't matter though, because the point is; I'm doing YOU the favour when I have to get you to use your damn mind put to the comments section - which, unlike others here, I still maintain you do have one as I have said before - and THINK about what you have to say when you respond to me, or any other commenter, who might be feeling 'dark' for whatever reason, or "disgusting" as you say, so as to have a substantial enough impact on the reader/s in a way that will actually matter! Which, when armed with your 'The Four Agreements' is what will REALLY, no doubt, raise the frequency (at least here on SOTT) and to help get out of "this horrific mess". So yes please... Continue, Linda.

Because until you finally stop telling me you think I have "a brilliant mind" (or other to that effect) because you're finally 'up there' with me ("brilliant" mind, that is), then you can be in the position to do ME the favour for the sake of OUR mirror, to raise MY FUCKING FREQUENCY!!!

Wouldn't you want that for me?... For all of us?? Because, try as I might, I just can't do it alone, LindaMay... *sob* and, although there is many an occasion for many a SOTT commenter to be in receipt of your short sharp jibe-y easy-as-you-like two-bit quip/not-so-quip flung-dung low-frequency one-liners (which apparently are never personal hits) -- it just ain't gonna cut it with me!

BC... i read... Yes

(and aint gonna cut it)

Skipped the rest as a favour to myself. Just sayin', ...i m living my life.

LindaMay Excellent! (I think?) and long may it continue

I'm of to have an early night now... Goodnight.

p.s. I've always wished the best for you, Linda.

BlackCartouche aww hell, I am thinking that mebbe we might get along well working in a motor room..

no sarcasm involved. Truth is a thing that is discovered. it is self evident when observed.

argueing with truth, when discovered, is folly.

HVACTech I'm reminded of Matthew 7:13

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

aww hell, I am thinking that mebbe we might get along well working in a motor room..

Sure... I can be hands-on too

BlackCartouche Your problem is seeing offense where there is none. Maybe there is no personal hit in those responses to your comments? But maybe you hoped there was, in search of a contrary opinion? From the original comment I did not gather that you were feeling dark, so I'd presume she didn't either. Yours was a perfectly thought-provoking comment, and as LM did I too was interpreting it as a mirror, at least in my case as in "how might all that apply to me?" I have no further comments on my nihilism.

Your method of attack is petty, "you are so low frequency," "excellent ... I thii-ink." Ok, but we are not in a sorority.

If you want to raise your frequency, stop worrying about being offended. Also, appreciate people for who they are. Perhaps you do so.

hobnyeba WTF??? Dude/Dudette your thoughts are a runaway train... wreck! Your emotions are all over the place... Are you drunk?? I don't even know where start!!

Though YOU can first start by appreciating, first of, me and LM have a history on SOTT - as she does with pretty much errryone else here, eh? -- and this ought to be taken into big consideration before jumping in our tea-party sideways and landing upsidedown in the fruit-punch bowl!

Now, sober up your erratic vibratory frequency field and take a deep breath, then re-read CAREFULLY who said what to whom first and said in which context, and start again (or not... up to you).

BlackCartouche You're overflowing with embarrassment, or you're projecting your own emotional thinking. It is pointless for me to re-read as you plead. There will just be more of your self-importance.

hobnyeba You're disintegrating. Snap out of it!

BlackCartouche actually DUDE... you DO. Hobneyba was totally respectful as was I. YOU are so full of IT and yourself (here n elsewhere) it 's been grossing me out too

BlackCartouche I second what LM has said in response to you, because I had the same thoughts.

It's not worth it in any case.

BlackCartouche You seem to have misread LindaMay's post.

BC... i read... Yes

(and aint gonna cut it)

Skipped the rest as a favour to myself.

She said she read the first word of your post which was "Yes", but she skipped the rest of the post "as a favour to herself".

Which was not very respectful.

p.s. I've always wished the best for you, Linda.

Pity those who pity.

Highland Fleet Lute PeeWeeees

LindaMay Reading your posts can often be quite disturbing.

It's like they've been written by a cider lady, or a dog woman or something.

Highland Fleet Lute cider lady eh..

I am thinking she is hot for you dude.

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HVACTech I always treat SOTT according to the principle of 'anyone could be anyone'.

I mean, if Spiked! comments section gets loaded up with agents provocateurs on a daily basis, why would SOTT get a pass?

Either way, as can be seen on this thread in particular, by accident or design it doesn't take very long to derail the possibility of having sentient discussions as per "When belief trumps truth" or whatever, does it?

That's why I don't go with all that SOTTites nonsense.

For all I know, Rowan Cocoan could be a copper, LindaMay an axe-murderer, Parzival a pedophile, etc.

Which is not to say that they are, but 'handle with care' is definitely the order of the day as regards any internet communications with total strangers.

Highland Fleet Lute I too was dismayed when the audacity was displayed. 'when belief trumps truth'

sad,

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Highland Fleet Lute

You seem to have misread LindaMay's post.

Yes, it seems you are correct.

Wishful thinking on my part, an all that...

Pity those who pity.

No more! So I guess that's that then...

YOU are so full of IT and yourself (here n elsewhere) it 's been grossing me out too

Its gonna get worse, Linda.

hobnyeba

Your problem is seeing offense where there is none. Maybe there is no personal hit in those responses to your comments?

Going back through the comments again, free of 'emotion' as you infer, you might be right or are part-right. The problem is when things are discussed or attempted understanding of more higher-octane levels of thought and discussion here, and then it gets peppered with snipped one-liners (often with as many emojis) that may or may not be meant as one way or another, which then leaves it uncertain in minds here and creates a whole lot of confusion, with things getting very misunderstood very easily when it didn't have to be that way! LM has been around here forever and she STILL doesn't appreciate this. Or doesn't care... Fine. But the price tag is to accept being VERY misunderstood a lot on a regular basis. That ought to be the trade off, right?... Its a two-way conduct.

The same chaos that gets generated here has affected you btw..

Your method of attack is petty, "you are so low frequency,"

I did not say that.

"excellent ... I thii-ink."

And there is no attack with this. None. Yet YOU seem be have interpreted it as me taking offense here... Why is that?

If you want to raise your frequency, stop worrying about being offended.

I'm not setting out to raise my frequency per se. What will be will be as far as my personal development is concerned. But being offended is one to take note of maybe... Though I don't feel offended, more like just VERY pissed off now because of the constant confusion and misunderstandings that crop up here time and time again every time a serious discussion is attempted that involves more than two short paragraphs!

There will just be more of your self-importance.

Sure, why not... Its probably a VERY necessary shield to put up around to be a regular commenter here who has anything half- decent to say... Oop, sorry, was that more of my self importance there??

Also, appreciate people for who they are.

It works both ways.

Anyway, you seem half-decent in retrospect, once my 'emotional projection' faded... So I half-apologize to you.

BlackCartouche

There will just be more of your self-importance.

Who amongst us don't have self-importance???

Stand up Jeezus, wherever you are!!!

The way it often runs is, the more humble the facade, the more self-important the interior.

BlackCartouche You are fine. LM has been of help in the past, I've found her comments calmed me in particular at times, two or three times at least. I found your initial request of her foolish, and from there could not understand you without inferring bitterness or priggishness.

"I did not say that."

No, you implied it multiple times. Raise your fucking frequency, you said. I took that as you being facetious, as if she couldn't, or as if you were obviated from self-improvement. Maybe that was wrong of me. Narrow is the gate, you said. I suppose now that you were imploring her to be better, but I am not familiar with you. Who's to say you're on a higher level? If you are more intelligent, than me, than her, than SOTT, whatever, then shouldn't you behave as much?

"YOU seem be have interpreted it as me taking offense here... Why is that?"

I did not realize you misinterpreted her. I did too, in a different way. If you want the answer, your third comment seemed particularly hurtful, and I don't know how anyone would handle something like that. That is what I read into her response, and all that I understood from her comment. Your best wishes comment did not acknowledge this. Perhaps this set me off. Now I see that comment not as blindness but more like relief on your part.

"Oop, sorry, was that more of my self importance there??"

I do not know. Is it meant as an insult? Well, insulting everyone is different from insulting one person. The former feels better, and we can pretend we're above all of them.

"It works both ways."

I don't care about my advice. Let's just all be on our best behavior.

"So I half-apologize to you."

Half-forgotten.

LindaMay I'll ask what I presume wasn't asked or at least isn't obvious to me. What does that mean? Peewees?

hobnyeba little weiners

hobnyeba

LM has been of help in the past, I've found her comments calmed me in particular at times, two or three times at least.

Same.

I like that she welcomes all newbies with open arms and helps them get settled in on SOTT. She gives everyone half-a-chance at first introduction... even the douchebags. She was the first ever to initiate contact with me actually, making me feel ever so welcome. That will always count for something in my world.

At first kinda like a big sister, an almost motherly quality in a funny sort of way. She makes sure there is plenty fun to be had, and she'll cheer up all the newfound little siblings when they're feeling glum. Which is sweet actually. But when we start to come into our own and find a more-solid grounding, she can't bear the idea of everyone growing up and the thought of leaving her behind! And she attempts to pull everyone back to before. Not in a mindful mean way, more an automation. I know it has little to do with those here having gained greater intelligence because she does appreciate intellect for the most part (as long as its not too mechanical thinking) so I can only assume its "soul growth" related that's the problem. I'm certain she can do it too but she doesn't want to... Because in fact, she hates it! And hates to see it attempted of others. I think its because she sees it as the root cause behind the 'sentience of evil' in our world, and all the evils of arrogance caused by man... So better try and stop themselves to become devils! And therein lies the tragedy (and it is a tragedy).

But maybe I'm wrong... Or wrong to be harsh?

I found your initial request of her foolish, and from there could not understand you without inferring bitterness or priggishness.

You mean "Explain"? If so, appreciate the fact at the time, rightly or wrongly, I thought she was basically calling me "DISGUSTING".

No, you implied it multiple times. Raise your fucking frequency, you said. I took that as you being facetious, as if she couldn't, or as if you were obviated from self-improvement. Maybe that was wrong of me. Narrow is the gate, you said. I suppose now that you were imploring her to be better,

That last part in bold.

but I am not familiar with you. Who's to say you're on a higher level? If you are more intelligent, than me, than her, than SOTT, whatever, then shouldn't you behave as much?

Its not about me thinking myself on a 'higher' level. I don't think quite in those terms. Any self-importance I might perceivably have probably comes from something else: General self-assurance through muddled life experience, and force of will, combined (tho I haven't examined myself that deeply to be sure on that). So no, not really about that, but more about seeing those *choosing* not to raise THEMSELVES up 'higher' when I'm certain they can. And just to reiterate; its not so much about strict intelligence, but more-so of "soul growth".

And just so you know; I judge (and yes, we all must judge) those who have come FURTHEST from their starting-point or origins, NOT how far ahead they perceivably are gotten in self-development compared to any others further down the line at a given measure.

I did not realize you misinterpreted her. I did too, in a different way. If you want the answer, your third comment seemed particularly hurtful, and I don't know how anyone would handle something like that. That is what I read into her response, and all that I understood from her comment. Your best wishes comment did not acknowledge this. Perhaps this set me off. Now I see that comment not as blindness but more like relief on your part."

Yeah, pretty much.

I do not know. Is it meant as an insult? Well, insulting everyone is different from insulting one person. The former feels better , and we can pretend we're above all of them.

The former. Feeling better? (no insult directed to you)

I don't care about my advice.

Well, please do because its actually quite good advice.

Let's just all be on our best behavior.

I can't guarantee that if the mood takes me, but I will try.

Half-forgotten.

Perish the thought! LOL.

parzival Give those evil bastards' tactics, rather than 'may' alter', I'd guess "probably alter" would be more accurate.

RC

Rowan Cocoan I suppose we'll know soon enough RC. Semantics may=probably, no?

parzival Of course, 'may' includes 'probably', but not vice versa. RC

parzival Thank you P. for another important video.

Rowan Cocoan Hey RC, this one's for Miami Vice... 'Cop’s Home Raided, Police Make ‘Historical’ Cocaine Bust Worth a Quarter BILLION Dollars' [Link]

parzival WOW! Thanks! I just bookmarked TFTP. (I thought I already had.)

While police and government will use this massive cocaine bust to crack down on the public and make tougher laws, in reality, what it highlights is the failure of the war on drugs. When cops — the ones who claim to be fighting the war on drugs — are caught with the largest amount of cocaine in BVI’s history, it’s time to admit that the war on drugs is not working.

The article references an "Unexplained Wealth Act". IF we had a libertarian society, there would be no need for such as there'd be no malum prohibitum crimes to get rich on.

RC

Rowan Cocoan You can say that again!

Joyly I just laughed my ass off. I once had a champion female Maine Coon (a gift) the most pretty, kind looking cat you'd ever see, but I'd always stop folks when they'd automatically go up to pet her and I would and say - "she looks beautiful, but don't pet or touch her til she knows you - if ever." Etc. She had the tendencies of this defensive kitty. this HILARIOUS! kitty, for she too was an 'attack cat'. [Link]
RC

Rowan Cocoan Well the cat is obviously in charge and does not want to sell. And that reminded you of me ...cos?

My last husband and I owned a Real Estate company with 20 Realtors and 960 rentals, so we had lots of stories. The most common was a realtor being approached sexually by the seller or tennant. Never happened to me though.

parzival Thanks. Don’t know if I have room for more

Joyly While it seems that our soul is the target, God has outsmarted these transhumanists. He knew that men of evil intent would try this and our soul (not visible to us) is not in this physical plane so it cannot be reached. It cannot be reached through the brain or the mind, which are actually tools of the soul - not the other way around.

Joyly

God has outsmarted these transhumanists.

Every time!

RC

Rowan Cocoan Yep. There is nothing man can do that God has not thought about first. His Laws will always win. That is the one thing evil doers do not count on.

Highland Fleet Lute seems like someone turned on a flashlight, eh?

OMG! are you dating one of my ex-wives?

[Link]

HVACTech ‘According to Jerry, who wrote the lyrics, “ Whip It ” is a tongue-in-cheek pep talk satirizing hollow American optimism. “I had been reading Thomas Pynchon’s Gravity’s Rainbow, and he had these limericks and poems in there that really made me laugh, where he was making fun of all the American, capitalist, can-do clichés—Horatio Alger—‘there’s nobody else like you,’ ‘you’re number one,’ ‘you can do it.’ And I was just trying my hand at it.”

While it would certainly be consistent with Devo’s methods to include a knowing double entendre, they are adamantly ambivalent about the common misunderstanding, which both goosed the song’s popularity and made it ever more clear that the masses would never quite get what the band were trying to do. “We wrote it as a ‘you can do it, Dale Carnegie’ pep talk for President Carter,” says Mark. “We were afraid that Republicans were going to get in there [in 1980], and they sounded very nasty at the time. They were running this guy, Ronald Reagan, that seemed like a total—he seemed like he didn’t even have a brain. We were like, ‘How could that be our president? That’s impossible, that they choose him to run for president.’ So we were writing this music that was like, ‘ You can do it, Mr. President .’

from salon.com [Link]

OMG! Obama might have played that while in office... it’s all swings and roundabouts.

Highland Fleet Lute Hmmm Cosmic gene therapy? Had a dream about that some time ago, well just the cosmic ray stuff, had mixed feeling about it and it seemed real. So far it looks mostly like Rain Checks.

Although, do I need to take my shirt off for that, will my jumper turn into a super jumper. lol

parzival i was laughing toooo

BunnyHop

[Link]


[Link]
[Link]

LindaMay Yay! Bugs bunny! Alice is fine!! [Link]

pzv true singing storeyteller, stunning

OMG!

Hmmm Cosmic gene therapy? Had a dream about that some time ago, well just the cosmic ray stuff, had mixed feeling about it and it seemed real.

Dunno. Just musing really. Thought it might relate to that stuff in the sessions about 'hyperkinetic sensate', 'they will "rise up with wings as eagles", etc.

It's a converse way of looking at the running down of the commercial aviation industry, lockdowns, masks, etc.

In the same way that if you do the opposite of what you're being told to do by whatever PTB, very often you'll come across completely different realisations as to why you're being issued those directives in the first place. The smoking ban is a good example.

I had quite a vivid dream about cosmic rays only last week. Cosmic rays and groaning cathedrals. Bizarre it was.

Highland Fleet Lute

I had quite a vivid dream about cosmic rays only last week. Cosmic rays and groaning cathedrals. Bizarre it was.

Interesting... That's very similar in mind to what Eric P. Dollard said about pipe organs of cathedrals and celestial alignments

[Link]

BlackCartouche I misread that, for a moment I thought it said "Eve Pollard". LOL.

Thanks, I'll have a look at that.

Highland Fleet Lute

I misread that

Yeah, its been going around a lot round here

BlackCartouche Well, actually it was one of those barely-wiped-the-sleep-from-my-eyes, first-cup-of-coffee-and-fag-of-the-day moments.

Nuffink to do with cosmic radiation whatsoever.

At least, I don't think so.

BlackCartouche Aghh!!!!....[Link]
LOL.

Highland Fleet Lute Yes very funny.

Don't suppose you know of an 'establishment' impartial to an anti-lockdown 'lock-in' somewhere around the shadier ends of the EC prefix on a cold wet late-November/early-December Wednesday afternoon, do yer?

BlackCartouche Naturally, I do. Good old Victorian number with a roaring fire and no contact tracing or barkeeps in dog muzzles.

Let's arrange something when they raise the iron curtain.

Highland Fleet Lute A roaring fire?... I can feel the warmth already... Can't wait!

BlackCartouche Unless some bastard has twiddled with the tram-lines by then.

Fongers crissed.

Highland Fleet Lute 'Muzzles' and getting fongers crissed, at the bar... were moustaches the maschks of olden days?

[Link]

parzival if you don't really have anything new to add, and yet you post something anyhow. it is forum sliding.

HVACTech It was an attempt at being humorous like this:

OMG! are you dating one of my ex-wives?

[Link]

Thomas Schroeder Gotta be quick.

1) Hello & welcome.

2) It's not so much opinion that is running things, but the false (and programmed) beliefs that are running things.

3) Cogito, ergo sum is a Latin philosophical statement made by Descartes, usually translated into English as "I think, therefore I am". There are many links on that - here's one: [Link] (To which I add, never stop seeking truth, and as you perceive it. There has never been a time in history where more people have access to the truth and yet a majority are avoiding their responsibilities to learn truth and share it.)

4) The more one learns, the more one realizes how relatively little they know - but such is a hunger for knowledge and your awareness and acknowledgment of that is why you're here. (WAY better than 99% olf folks - you're fine. - And I'm a pessimist.)

RC

Thomas Schroeder Everything RC said plus:

We can only really change ourselves. The more we live in truth the more positive influence we will be. Others won’t change because of what we say; they might be inspired to change because of how we show up. All that matters is that I take responsibility for my own education and search for truth and commit to live that truth no matter what.

Thomas Schroeder still, public loves them, maybe it makes them feel participating from their power, being on their side. like being a fan of a successful football club, being on the side that wins...

It seems to me that the above type of people are those who lack any real personality, originality, they have always been followers, even since childhood, they followed a leader without thoughts of their own. Perhaps they really don't know how to think for them selves and are thus very immature. It's sad that they are so numerous.

LindaMay

Play is the Child's WAY

I don't think children know what that is anymore..

[Link]

BlackCartouche Phenomenal WWI memoir, Under Fire, by Barbusse (1916)

Soldiers are on extended leave in the rear after killing and being killed...

He got up to go and look for his treasure again, entered the house that supported our backs, and left the door open, where beside the huge fireplace in the room we saw a little girl, so seriously playing with a doll that Blaire fell considering, and said, "She's right."

The games of children are a momentous preoccupation. Only the grown-ups play.

After we have watched the animals and the strollers go by, we watch the time go by, we watch everything.

Free at [Link]
RC

Rowan Cocoan Thanks RC.

The games of children are a momentous preoccupation.

I think children in their "innocence" are much closer to 'the source' where reality can still be influenced by imagination. But the budding of sexuality disrupts this otherwise budding power of spirit and sense of natural spirituality which can influence reality. And in the transference through puberty, of spiritual development instead gets thwarted and 'blocked' under the destructive dogmas and social conditioning programmes surrounding sex which plagues every society, whether it be religious or worldly, heavily corrupted before it gets locked up inside of us as unrealized and now-perverted potential, and to live on in us as either unstable or repressed kundalini force.

Only the grown-ups play

Grown-ups play/behave/act like "children" when it comes to sex.

Thats my take on it.

BlackCartouche hehehe 😘 i think that is a very good take 👍

BlackCartouche And I think it was Barbusse's take, and correct.

RC

BlackCartouche My take is grownups act like children whenever they don’t get their own way.

Joyly Who could that be ? I wonder......

cracker All grown ups including me - I confess

Joyly

grownups act like children whenever they don’t get their own way .

That's because the sexual-energy core of their Being hasn't first been unblocked properly or properly cleansed. Once it is unblocked/cleansed then everything else should fall in line and all the other chakras automatically 'clicks' into place and in their rightful order.

All grown ups including me - I confess

Yes. ALL of us.

Joyly you're right but I was talking about one person in particular and I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this but I'm talking about Trump

cracker Well good for you. I admire anyone who is prepared to say what they think regardless of flak. Can you give specific examples? I know he has been frustrated with reporters at times and had to retract his statement. He has openly disagreed with Fauci but not made any demands. Similarly with Barr. (I wish he would)

I think he was reasonable on election night whilst telling the truth as he saw it. (And he was right) He has seemed restrained and under pressure in press briefings since then. I think his hair has actually changed colour to quite grey as some one else commented.

Joyly He's not acting like the President or a man. He lost, MAN UP, he has 2 months to go. So he just quits and plays golf now. We got Biden,we all need to deal with it. Not letting Biden in on any briefing on the virus or foreign matters is a major mistake for the American people, that he loved so much!!!!!!????.

cracker

He lost, MAN UP, he has 2 months to go. So he just quits and plays golf now.

[Link]

BlackCartouche Meet the new boss he's the same as the old boss. We won't get fooled again ,Oh no!

cracker Funny you say that because golf is about the only thing that makes me feel uneasy about Trump: his like for golf. I think everything about golf is satanic... Everything about it is about taking sterility to the extreme, which means its anti-Life.

I know no-one is perfect, but when someone likes to play golf I immediately think something about them is never to be 100% trusted.

Other than that I think Trump is GREAT

BlackCartouche Iggy Pop was always really into golf....[Link]
I guess some people need a little contrast in their lives.

Highland Fleet Lute Sure... but rowing a boat on a quiet lake is contrasting, so why not do that?

Do you trust Iggy Pop 100%...??

BlackCartouche No. I don't trust anyone 100%. Do you?

Brakar hmm. my comment was btw directed at the;

grown-ups play/behave/act like "children" when it comes to sex

... part. (the rest of the post i did/do not want to comment on).

BlackCartouche Besides which, there are a lot of A's, B's and C's to consider.

A) Iggy Pop has never stood for election.

B) I've never been in a position where I've had to trust Iggy Pop 100% for anything.

C) You can probably fill in the blanks all the way to Z with that one by yourself.

I don't know anything about golf. Never watched it or played it.

I've played crazy golf, but I wouldn't give that any more significance than it deserves.

Highland Fleet Lute

B) I've never been in a position where I've had to trust Iggy Pop 100% for anything.

RC

Highland Fleet Lute

No. I don't trust anyone 100%. Do you?

No, not even my closest family members, and I love them dearly.

B) I've never been in a position where I've had to trust Iggy Pop 100% for anything.

Well, even if I were to find myself in a position to have to trust Iggy Pop for anything, I still wouldn't trust him - not even 50%.

But Iggy Pop is irrelevant as you know. Trump, however, is a leader (at least representative) of a powerful nation so the stakes for "trust" is huge because a leader of a nation has to be of the highest integrity as humanly possible for those most difficult situations he will find himself in. Of course no human-being is expected to be literally 100% trustworthy... I was being figurative. But his integrity at least, must be near -on 100%... I'd say at least 95%. Playing golf takes it under that threshold for me.

However... Due to his 'The Art of the Deal' days from when the most successful business dealings are done on the golf-course and therefor 'old habits die hard', then I am willing to overlook this blemish on his character left over from those days.

I don't know anything about golf. Never watched it or played it.

Yes, its quite obvious to me.

And of course you're allowed to play crazy golf - which isn't the same thing - for the sake of appeasing colleagues after work or a happy family day out, every now an then...

Brakar

... part. (the rest of the post i did/do not want to comment on).

Yeah, I thought as much..

What was/is it about the main part you didn't/don't want to comment on?

BlackCartouche Imho golf is a PC replacement for going hunting or fishing without getting dirty. You feel some sort of accomplishment controlling a little white ball, and maybe it’s all about the chase. They do walk a long way.

BlackCartouche

But Iggy Pop is irrelevant as you know.

The whole thread has veered so far off the highway and into the wildwood, what's the diff?

Highland Fleet Lute I'm at work so can't be long...

Here's the latest MindMatters out as I'm sure you're aware:

It clocks-off the last word, paraphrasing: "Self-importance [...] wrecks everything..." And I instantly thought:

Stand up Jeezus, wherever you are!!!

Prolly an idea to start afresh there - but with "Jeezus" in mind(?)

BlackCartouche I see a lot of people wandering around these days that don't even have enough self-importance to want to breathe.

Highland Fleet Lute

HALLELUJAH!!!

BlackCartouche And If Boris Johnson or Matt Hancock told them to wear a yellow star, pack a suitcase and queue up for the next train to Bergen-Belsen, I'm sure some of them would even run to be first in line.

The fact is, you haven't thought this thing through and you don't know what you're talking about.

Highland Fleet Lute

The fact is, you haven't thought this thing through and you don't know what you're talking about.

But it doesn't matter to me that much right now, thinking things through and knowing what I'm talking about isn't at the top of my list.

BlackCartouche

But it doesn't matter to me that much right now, thinking things through and knowing what I'm talking about isn't at the top of my list.

Oh really? What is, then? Deciding whether you trust Iggy Pop 100%, less than 50%, or 36.5% or whatever?

Dark around these parts, huh?

Highland Fleet Lute

What is, then?

You mean you don't know?? You - of all people!

I must come to better KNOW thine Self, HFL, starting with my 'lower centres'. Because they're clogged up! So the top of the list for me right now is to "see" where it is I'm led 'instinctively' first and foremost, and to 'feel' where my mind is pulled or pushed in what direction that way or this, and see what my triggers are and to see where my emotions arise from and whether to 'let the chips fall where they may' (as Elan would put it)... All from how my interactions with others here are going... Where will the next HFL-interaction thread take me to!! . .(Lolz!)... and then the why.

For, the thinking things through part is kinda secondary for me at the moment, though of course its a very significant secondary, less than a half-notch down - as THINKING is very important, obviously, and I appreciate you getting me to THINK and will certainly continue to try to oblige you on that wherever I can. But the 'knowing what I'm talking about' part is very much tertiary... I couldn't care too much with that one at the moment, it can take a back seat for now. Though I'm sure it will come to the fore in due course (I certainly hope so, because I'd like to know what I'm talking about too).

You could say; I'm carrying out my personalised bastardised version of that system known amongst you Gurdjieffians as 'Self-Remembering'. Naturally, because I'm doing so on my own, it is gonna be a bit haphazard and chaotic, like things can be on the SOTT comments sections, which kinda suits me, because I simply can't follow tried and tested systems of past masters, unless, perhaps, I fork out a tonne of money along with a tonne of free time I never will have neither of (ok, maybe time due to Covid Laws, but defo not money!). So, I've learned to do things my more-difficult way until other journeymen/women come along on-line or IRL and kindly or harshly corrects those certain things wrong in me as and when they (the journeymen/women AND the things wrong with me) pop up.

I have FAITH. So thats gotta count for summint in my favour!

Anyways, you're the one who shook up the snow-globe of this particular sub-thread here between me and you, when it would otherwise have duly ended with my last response to cracker. You made the Iggy Pop mountain out of my Trump mole-hill. Which I don't mind, and I think I did get your point after a second look, about minds being lost causes here on SOTT when derailing or 'forum sliding' just as with people IRL, was it? - and muddled into it 'people's lives needing balancing contrasts' and wot-not. Because you take issue with veering threads off track just like everyone veering into chaos outdoors in your street, BUT unfortunately, that particular snow-globe shake-up of yours wasn't a good example for me because I probably know less about Iggy Pop than you do about golf!... And I was left wondering... Ugh?? Unless, that was part of your point about 'forum sliding' and the chaotic minds of people all around and everywhere out there and in here and how its all hypocritical reflections of everyone here espousing to each other etc? If so, good one

If not. Please kindly clarify it so I'm not left with the same issues of uncertainty and befuddlement as you definitely take with LindaMay.

To note: I too share much of your annoyance with there being a lot of 'forum sliding' as HVACTech coins it, that's been going on around here. But that's something to raise with Joe or Niall - or whomever is steering the SOTT helm these days. In the meantime, from my end, for the most part I'll continue to go along with whatever the thread-flows draws me away no matter how far from the original subject of its respective article, for the reasons I've now explained above until I want to call it a day on a given thread... or if YOU want to call it a day from your end when you think I'm guilty of too much forum sliding meself, I will of course respect your wishes... Tho I hope that when I forum slide its at least interesting?

Dark around these parts, huh?

And its getting just a little bit brighter for me as each day passes! But when I crash and burn, as I always do (s'all good tho, its all part of my journey, its how this here nigga dun rollz)... I will 8 times pick myself up after 7 times my falling, click clack the knuckles and jump back to it to continue on as I left off!

My brain is tired. I won't be responding to any response until at least midday tomorrow.

BlackCartouche Oh dear.

Looks like the cosmic rays have got him.

Highland Fleet Lute So what's your special shielding made from, then?

Or do you not need shielding because you stay in the twilight zone and never raise up into direct Light?

Thomas Schroeder You can only change you; I can only change me. Everyone’s voice is important.

Thomas Schroeder I've gotta add SOTT's "Quote Of The Day:

No one who lives in error is free . - Euripides

To which I'd add,

"No one lives error free." - RCclesiastes .

RC

Rowan Cocoan Both very true.

Highland Fleet Lute Thank you. I ❤️ Van Morrison.

I wonder how long before this is censored?

HFL: VM's lyrics remind me of several songs from Jackson Browne's Reagan Era recording about CIA BS in Central America, including the title track, Lives In The Balance* [Link]

"Lives In The Balance"

I've been waiting for something to happen

For a week or a month or a year

With the blood in the ink of the headlines

And the sound of the crowd in my ear

You might ask what it takes to remember

When you know that you've seen it before

Where a government lies to a people

And a country is drifting to war

And there's a shadow on the faces

Of the men who send the guns

To the wars that are fought in places

Where their business interest runs

On the radio talk shows and the T.V.

You hear one thing again and again

How the U.S.A. stands for freedom

And we come to the aid of a friend

But who are the ones that we call our friends

These governments killing their own?

Or the people who finally can't take any more

And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone

There are lives in the balance

There are people under fire

There are children at the cannons

And there is blood on the wire

There's a shadow on the faces*

Of the men who fan the flames

Of the wars that are fought in places

Where we can't even say the names

They sell us the President the same way

They sell us our clothes and our cars

They sell us every thing from youth to religion

The same time they sell us our wars

I want to know who the men in the sha dows are

I want to hear somebody asking them why

They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are

But they're never the ones to fight or to die

And there are lives in the balance

There are people under fire

There are children at the cannons

And there is blood on the wire

* Also see other tracks on that album; JB's next - World In Motion; Paul Simon albums of that era - and one runs out of room and says "et al.";

**Even way back then, I knew that he was talking about (Big) Dick Cheney.

RC

Rowan Cocoan All SOTTfolk:

I generally (and still) do not like music videos. However, I have never seen the above JB video before now - I only knew and well heard that album's words, and though I did well know what the songs were about, (CIA in Nicaragua, El Salvador? et al.), well . . . watching that video* the whole "a picture tells a thousand words" really rings home. Check it out! [Link]
RC

*Granted, production skills in 1986 were WAY worse.

RC

Rowan Cocoan And this.

I recently said re some link that I thought it might well be Creative Writing 101 at Langley, but what do I know?

I above just wrote about JB's comments on the evil CIA wars in Central America. That led me to the below.

In days long past (e.g., those of one year ago ) I would never have even linked this, but, as I learned long ere now, the more I learn, the more I realize how little I know. That said, I will let YOU reach your own opinions on this, for I am frankly curious to hear from you, my well informed fellow SOTTites. I have never heard of these claims - have you?

Without further ado, I give you this from the link, infra:

The Bush Drug Sting, The Sins of the Father, The Sins of the Son and -- The Smoking Airplane

Why Does George W. Bush Fly in Drug Smuggler Barry Seal's* Airplane?

by

Daniel Hopsicker and Michael C. Ruppert**

It has all the makings of a major box office thriller: Texas Governor and Republican Presidential contender George W. Bush and his brother Jeb, allegedly caught on videotape in 1985 picking up kilos of cocaine at a Florida airport in a DEA sting set up by Barry Seal???

An ensuing murderous cover-up featuring Seal's public assassination less than a year later by a hit team???the members of which, when caught, reveal to their attorneys during trial that their actions were being directed by then, National Security Council (NSC) staffer - Lt. Colonel Oliver North???

And a private turboprop King Air 200 supposedly caught on tape in the sting with FAA ownership records leading directly to the CIA and some of the perpetrators of the most notorious (and never punished) major financial frauds of the '80s. ???Greek shippers paying bribes to obtain loans from American companies that would never be repaid.???An American executive snatching the charred remains of a $10,000 payoff check from an ashtray in an Athens restaurant???Swiss police finding bank accounts used for kickbacks and bribes???

Add to this mix the now irrefutable proof, some of it from the CIA itself, that then Vice President George H.W. Bush was a decision maker in illegal Contra support operations connected to the "unusual" acquisition of aircraft and that his staff participated in key financial, operational and political decisions???

All these events lead inexorably to one unanswered question: How did this one plane go from being controlled by Barry Seal, the biggest drug smuggler in American history, to becoming, according to state officials, a favored airplane of Texas Governor George W. Bush?

-----------------------------------

Three months into an exhaustive investigation of persistent reports dating to 1995 that there exists an incriminating videotape of current Republican Presidential front-runner Bush caught in a hastily-aborted DEA cocaine sting, the central allegation remains unproven???

But some startling details have been confirmed, amid a raft of new suspicions emerging from conflicting FAA records. Those records, along with other irrefutable documents, point to the existence of far more than mere happenstance or dark "conspiracy theorist speculations" in the matter of how George W. Bush came to be flying the friendly Texas skies in an airplane that was a crown jewel in the drug smuggling fleet of the notorious Barry Seal. Those documents reveal - beyond any doubt - that in the 1980s Barry Seal, with whom the CIA has consistently denied any relationship, piloted and controlled airplanes owned by the same Phoenix Arizona company, Greycas, which in a 1998 bankruptcy filing, was revealed to have been a subsidiary of the same company that owned the now defunct CIA proprietary airline Southern Air Transport.

The investigation started with a lead into the history of the aircraft (a 1982 Beechcraft King Air 200 with FAA registration number N6308F - Serial Number BB-1014). The handwritten tail number was found in records kept by Seal's widow and later linked to other "hard paper" records left by Seal after his 1986 assassination by "drug traffickers" who were subsequently connected to Oliver North. Those records, including leasing agreements, insurance policies and maintenance records, exhibit a deliberately-confusing "paper trail" of convoluted ownership recalling the 'glory' days of the Iran Contra hearings, where the machinations of American covert intelligence operators were unmasked before a disbelieving public.

Combined with revelations in a 1998 CIA Inspector General's report of Contra-era cocaine trafficking in which the CIA admits to "briefing" then Vice President Bush on how it lied to Congress about cocaine trafficking by its agents, it becomes clear that father and son have common secrets to conceal from the American public. That report, Volume II of the CIA Inspector General's report into allegations of Contra cocaine trafficking can be viewed at (INFRA) A detailed discussion of that report, along with relevant excerpts is available at www.copvcia.com.

Unraveling the plane's tangled and colorful history requires, first, a brief look backwards at the momentous year of 1982, when President Reagan first introduced the public version of "Project Democracy," in which he called for a "crusade for freedom."

[Link]
*Clearly, a CIA guy who became inconvenient - a .David Ferrie for the 1980's;

** Am aware of claims re claims of one and/or other being CIA compromised.

RC

Rowan Cocoan Fourteen years later. Same shit show. Thanks. 🙏

Rowan Cocoan

*Granted, production skills in 1986 were WAY worse.

Still a thousand times better than any post-9/11 shit-rolled-in-sparkling-glitter that gets slopped all over our screens nowadays...

Shame there was a few sound glitches with the original... So I thought to put up the audio version too, because that was quite frankly a beautifully powerful song -- and I can't believe I've not heard it before!!

[Link]

BlackCartouche Thanks.

He's always been a master lyricist. That entire album is fantastic.

I would simply recommend you listen to every album of his in order.* But a few of his phenomenally poetic songs are For A Dancer, From Silver Lake, and the list is too long.

I've seen him in concert about 8 times - he's great!

RC

*I have been less impressed with his last two, though.

RC

Highland Fleet Lute hmm. i like it when people add music (or fish) to their comments

HVACTech apologies to those that I have probably offended..

[Link]

HVACTech I always took you for a wordsmith also, sir. are you jacking with yourself?

apologies to those that I have probably offended.

The day of reckoning is nigh upon us all... the days of treading on egg-shells around others sensitivities is over now...

Here is a favourite, of yours....? - from one freedum-luvvin-Brit to a 2nd-Amended-Murican another... lets bring things back to basics..

[Link]
(i chose this version for the pic... a pleasant reminder for what its all for )

Brakar hmm. sorting beliefs from facts is btw necessary -if wanting to reach the "next level" -as every gamer would know.

Brakar Whatever is going on for you is relevant here if you want to share.

Joyly awwwe

[Link]
Bk

Rowan Cocoan This is the first time I've ever come across something like this before Andrew Anglin, who has written about it:

Germany: Scientist Skeptical of Coronavirus Hoax is Raided and Arrested During Livestream.

I’ve not been able to find a single piece of news about this arrest, other than people reporting on the video itself. At the time of writing it is fresh news, but the German media may simply decide not to report on it, and the cops may decide not to comment on it, leaving room open for people to imagine that it may have been a hoax. However: if it is a hoax, you can be certain that the media will tell you it’s a hoax. The fact that there isn’t already media about this, given that the clip has gone viral on the English language internet, is another one of those “the mystery of the dog that didn’t bark” situations. The video certainly looks legitimate. The officer’s uniform would be quite a thing to fake. Faking something like this would also presumably be illegal in Germany. I think this is where Europe is at: if you question this lockdown, they will kick in your door, throw you to the ground and handcuff you. Frankly, if Joe Biden manages to seize power in America, you’re going to be looking at the same thing here. A member of Biden’s fake transition team has called for “hate speech” laws that are even more extreme than those that Europe and Canada have.

[Link]
RC

Rowan Cocoan That's a bit OTT!

“The reasons for the police raid and arrest … have not yet been officially revealed. However, there are rumors [unconfirmed reports] that Dr. Andreas Noack provided medical assistance to hundreds of protestors during lockdown protests against the German government.” Reportedly, Dr. Andreas Noack was under investigation for “being non-compliant with the COVID-19 lockdown laws enacted by the German government.”The ‘Infection Protection Law’ has drawn a lot of flak and has been compared by some to the Nazi era Enabling Act. Like the law that was passed in 1933, the recently passed law also confers certain legislative powers to the government, which hitherto rested only with the Legislature, that is, the Parliament. The Infection Protection Law provides the government with a legal basis to restrict the fundamental rights guaranteed by the German Constitution.

On the 23rd of March 1933, the Enabling Act was passed by the Reichstag 441 votes to 94. This Act gave Hitler the right to make laws without the Reichstag’s approval for the next four years

HashAttack2 I am surprised this is still up and available - it probably won't be for long.

Here's the link to the video with comments. [Link] The pigs start banging HARD on the door at ~43:20. Bang it down, come in with a submachine gun. Looks straight out of Brazil. (Terry Gilliam film.)

As re why? I think he's a non PC C-1984 skeptic. Anglin writes aboutit at above link. Again: [Link]
Do you speak German?

RC

Rowan Cocoan Are those the people in charge of counting the US election votes?

Rowan Cocoan I've been listening / looking at it now .... lots of interesting comments

Rowan Cocoan "First they came for the livestreamers...."

HashAttack2 Then they came for the SOTTites...

Then the SOTTypes..

Yup. Sad and scary, but what is scariest is the people - MOST! - being wilfully blind to such events, covering their ears and eyes so that evil can work.

I am reminded of a kid who was 19 or such, and he was getting sentenced to like 25 years? life? for selling pot. He gave an eloquent speech about the evil that must exist in order to destroy a life for a harmless plant. He then ran and jumped out a window and fell to his death.

"Just another suicide," is what was said. (Actually, I imagine it got dealt with in the same way that 9/11/2001's WTC-7 and nanothermite;* to wit: nothing at all.

(Above even is a recollection of faint impressions from ~15 years ago when I probably should have researched it, at least to impress it firmly in my mind, but I DID NOT! Thus, I firmly expect that what I just wrote above - which I could still delete, but shall not - is perhaps more counter-propaganda than I should post - but my guess lies firmly on the side left.

R.C.

*Which, STILL TO THIS VERY DAY is easily findable in NYC downwind from the WTC Complex - 'death by (intentional) lack of 'publicity.'

RC

Rowan Cocoan The story of the court, kid and window should, for now, be looked on as a parable.* Its a recollection of faint impressions from >15 years ago when my criminal defense days were still fresh in memory. (It did not happen here.) I recall when I heard of it from an honestly credible source* ~ 3/2001, I probably should have researched it, at least to impress it firmly in my mind, but I DID NOT! Thus, I firmly expect that what I just wrote above - which I could still delete, but shall not - is perhaps more counter-propaganda than I should post, but I personally know sundry sadder tales from the inanity of our drug wars.

When I wrote "my guess lies firmly on the side left." I meant left behind, ignored, etc. Given it's me, no SOTTite would accuse me of being leftward in things philosophical or polical.

*As much as RC should be looked on as a 'para gon' of virtue? Who TF knows?

** A term 'mincemeated' by the BFM.

RC

Rowan Cocoan There's a reason why the first amendment is the first, as opposed to the second, third or fourth

One could say that it's ironic that Germany's laws preventing any questioning of the holocaust are actually the wedge that keeps the door open for their next holocaust to be implemented

Not sure if nano-thermite can explain away the dustification of the towers .... there was that suspicious hurricane off the coast

HashAttack2

One could say that it's ironic that Germany's laws preventing any questioning of the holocaust are actually the wedge that keeps the door open for their next holocaust to be implemented

Valid point. And WHO really controls Germany TO THIS DAY? 'We' (Team FUKUSraHell, actually) do! Thus, this is happening under our watch.

Not sure if nano-thermite can explain away the dustification of the towers .... there was that suspicious hurricane off the coast.

Oh, I agree. (Am unaware of suspicious hurricane - though I probably surfed it - is that a HAARP thing?) All I know is that the more I learn, the more I realize how very little I know. Likewise, I am confident that I will likely never know the whole truth behind it - what that bit of truth's (nanothermite's)function is is to show us that the 'official story' / 'narrative' that's been so sold to the proles is clearly a lie, and it does 'explain away' the possibility of the 'official story' as being true, the possibility that it was 'by accident' etc., etc.

RC

Rowan Cocoan Explaining nano-thermite to the masses is probably a bit too complex * - better to just poke holes and ridicule NIST claiming that a steel building collapses, at free fall speed, due to minor office fires

SEVEN, AE911Truth’s new feature documentary about Building 7 and the University of Alaska Fairbanks study by Dr. Leroy Hulsey — soon to be released in partnership with film distributor 1091 Pictures, a global distribution company which gives this important film on Building 7 the best chance to be seen worldwide. The film's release will be after the election. Check out the new trailer.

[Link]
* You can always try and demonstrate with an aluminium coke can and some rust scraping

HashAttack2 Oh, is that a hit piece?

Did you see that poor Dr. Get arrested? (~43:20) At the very end, you hear the scene straight out of Gilliam's Brazil, (46:XX)

Nomen? Dr. Andreas Noak;

Addressenschtein*? He gives it.

SCARY! Some SOTTite who is fluent in German needs to listen to what that guy preached (he sure enough looks and sounds like a calm, decent soul), what his prior posts, videos and points have been / were / are, along with Germany's claimed basis for the arrest, and what it portends.

The ending where the cop moves the cam and he's breathing hard.. well, if that's fake, someone should become a movie director!

R.C.

*Just made up that word.

RC

Rowan Cocoan Most of the conversation seems to be about realities ... notice the Simpsons prediction poster in the background

On the sketch board there are symbols for different irons

Don't think the Building 7 film is a hit piece - SEVEN: A Film by Dylan Avery ... same guy who did Loose Change

HashAttack2 So you understand German?

Rowan Cocoan Not to translate ... but can pick bits out

You can find some English comments, with German speakers giving their input

Just checking his video history titles

Sonochemistry.... - is not expensive either!

Program yourself - before others do it.... (Faith Sentences Part 2)

Psycho-war - how awesome is that

The big Disclosure - hard to believe

He's on a live stream now - started 16 minutes ago - [Link]

HashAttack2 On why the police turned up - "he does not know. after a while the police left without explanation"

HashAttack2 More titles

Invisible chains are... the most effective

Wet Dreams - by Obama & Co ... this opens with a slide in English - [Link]
The slide appears to be quote of John Holdren

The Planetary Regime might be given responsibility for determining the optimum population for the world and for each region and for arbitrating various countries' shares within their regional limits. Control of population size might remain the responsibility of each government, but the Regime would have some power to enforce agreed limits

Wki Snippets

John Paul Holdren is an American scientist who served as the senior advisor to President Barack Obama on science and technology issues through his roles as Assistant to the President for Science and Technology, Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, and Co-Chair of the President's Council of Advisors on Science and Technology (PCAST)

He testified to the nomination committee that he does not believe that government should have a role in determining optimal population size and that he never endorsed forced sterilization.

In a 1969 article, Holdren argued, "if the population control measures are not initiated immediately, and effectively, all the technology man can bring to bear will not fend off the misery to come." In 1973, Holdren encouraged a decline in fertility to well below replacement in the United States, because "210 million now is too many and 280 million in 2040 is likely to be much too many."

HashAttack2 Well, I have long agreed with this:

"210 million now is too many and 280 million in 2040 is likely to be much too many."

I simply and thoroughly disagree with the compulsory / deceptive approach taken by governments.

RC

Rowan Cocoan Closing the borders seems a good place to start! ... That Holdren guy sounds like a nasty specimen with ideas such as forced sterilisation via water supplies

US population is now 330m ... 280m is just the Biden vote

Rowan Cocoan [Link] Here is a link to the German arrested.

JB17 Good find! THANK YOU!

RC

Rowan Cocoan The big Disclosure - hard to believe - [Link]
This one is dubbed in English .. talking about an Earth that is increasing in size, where does oil come from and hollow Earth

HashAttack2 That was fascinating. Thank you. What a great teacher - even with the translation. Makes you wonder about our school curricula and how much more is possible. Someone does not want our kids to know anything.

Joyly The rules seems to be that the less provable something is, the greater the official dogma

Ever wonder why our ocean floors are the youngest sections of Earth surface

HashAttack2 If the earth is constantly expanding, petroleum is a renewable resource ( by definition doesn’t that make it ‘green’). Then the only reason the masters want us to believe otherwise is because they do not want to share.

I once listened to a series of lectures on recent discoveries of the ocean floors by some university professor. (English I think). Extraordinary.

Joyly Clif High is very interesting to listen to - he has done a few shows on Forum Borealis - [Link]

At first blush, the Expanding Earth Hypothesis or “Expando-Earth,” as Clif High calls it, does seem pretty wacky but it can be argued to make more sense than Plate Tectonics which, let’s face it is pretty damned crazy, with its wild and woolly subduction zones

Mainstream geologists do agree that rocks as old as 4 billion years are found on land yet nothing older than 200 million years is ever found when taking core samples of the bedrock beneath the sea

[Link]

HashAttack2

“Why does the scientific community desperately cling to and promote the idea that the ocean bottom is sliding under the continents and into a magma which is twice as dense as solid granite, a totally unsupportable and scientifically unsound idea [subduction]? Because they’d have to observe and admit that the Earth is growing and that…is a very big deal. That would change everything in science, from the smallest particle to the whole universe – 100 years of scientific theory, out the window. That’s a lot to give up .”

HashAttack2 They could give up 100 years of pharmaceutical invention at the same time. That’s a lot to give up too. The sooner we accept the truth the sooner we can learn and grow.

Joyly At no point in the history of mankind have the rulers' scientists, doctors, priests or historians ever been anything but 100% correct

We should not expect it to be any different today

HashAttack2 this place brings forum sliding to an art form.

always remember Kids, if you cannot dazzle them with Brilliance, Baffle them with Bullshit.

HVACTech More of a landslide.

I know a song about that.

It requires a straight back and a clear head in order to dance to it....[Link]

LindaMay in time, you will feel the power of my Love..

J. Geils Band - Give It To Me (Full Version; Lyrics in Description) - YouTube

HVACTech J Geils Band - Whammer Jammer (Full House Live) - YouTube

HVACTech Lemme hear ya, dig it?

Dude, we grew up with the same music. RC

Rowan Cocoan LindaMay, knows that she needs a man sir.

Janis Joplin - Move Over lyrics - YouTube

HVACTech if this is this how you imagine LindaMay sir..

Tove Lo - Habits (Stay High) - YouTube

then our only recourse will be a duel at dawn.