FILE PHOTO: The whole world is following his talks with Putin, President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said
"I believe that our negotiations will open a new page in relations between the two countries," Erdogan said.
"I'm talking about energy cooperation, the export of [Ukrainian] grain via the Black Sea, tourism and regional issues," he added.
The situation in Syria was slated to be among the main topics on the agenda, given that "the battle against terrorism in the region is important for us," the Turkish president said.
The issues he plans to discuss with Putin are of prime importance, and because of this "the whole world today is following the talks in Sochi," Erdogan insisted.
The Russian president thanked his Turkish counterpart for the role he played in the Ankara- and UN-brokered deal to facilitate the resumption of Ukrainian grain shipments through Black Sea ports.
As part of the agreement, which was signed in Istanbul in late July, the UN also promised to work towards removing obstacles to the export of Russian grain, food and fertilizers created by international sanctions against Moscow.
"Those deliveries have already started," Putin pointed out, adding that the deal was "very important" for developing nations, who rely on foreign grain to feed their populations.
The Russian leader also said he was expecting to sign a memorandum on the development of trade and economic relations between Russia and Turkey during his talks with Erdogan.
Despite being a NATO member, Turkey continued cooperation with Russia after the launch of Moscow's military operation in Ukraine in late February. Ankara condemned the use of force by Russia but refused to join the international sanctions against Moscow.
Reader Comments
+ mostly retaining Turkiye's 100-yo secular government in the face of Turkish Islamists.
+ dealing with existing NATO treaty obligations
+ handling whatever is going on next door in Syria
+ dealing with the Kurds ( <-- should have gotten a homeland after WWI : instead are spread across at least Turkiye, Iraq, Iran? Sucks to be Kurdish. )
+ owning the Bosporus & Dardanelles gateway to the Black Sea, and balancing the associated maritime treaty obligations.
+ some kerfuffle just to the North of the Black Sea between NATO and one of the Slavic nations. I think this was mentioned briefly in the news recently. (/s)
+ 3-7 million turks diaspora'd in Germany (AKA central NATOstan)
+ wanting to retain the appearance of stability in a rough neighborhood, to not scare off the Tourists / Tourist Industry. (Turkiye, for good reason, bills itself as the "Largest Open-Air Museum in the World", and invests heavily in archaeology and maintenance to support this industry.)
+ several years ago welcomed perhaps the largest numbers of refugees fleeing instability in nearby countries (Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan...) (hmmm, and then unleashed some of them on Europe repeatedly for political & economic concessions/support... hmmm)
His wouldn't be my first choice for a country to move to, but my uneducated opinion is that he appears to be "mostly" working toward what he considers to be the best interests of Turks.
Contrast this with the leaders of "Western" Countries, who daily express their disdain and deplorance for their own populations. ...just sayin'...
Erdogan shot down a Russian plane over Syrian territory at the instigation of the CIA, who wanted to provoke a war between NATO and Russia. (Today, Ukraine is the latest try.) Instead of reacting as expected and bombing Turkish airfields, Putin thought several moves ahead and slapped severe sanctions on Turkey, which really hurt its economy. Then, when the treacherous CIA fomented a coup to replace Erdogan with their man Fethullah Gulen, who has dozens of madrassas in all the "Stans" south of Russia, all staffed with CIA assets and all intended to graduate jihadists to overthrow those governments which are all friendly to Russia, instead of saying, "Good, Erdogan deserves what is coming to him," Putin tipped him off and the coup failed.
So for a while Erdogan was friendly to Russia. Then, he interfered in the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict, to the great detriment of Russia's friend Christian Armenia. (Even though Russia is trying not to take sides in that dispute - Russia does not want to antagonize Azerbaijan, because someday soon there will be a railway from Chabhar Port on the Indian Ocean in Iran, up through Azerbaijan, to Moscow, and on to Europe.)
Then, Turkey interfered in Ukraine, sending dozens of Bayraktar drones to the Ukrainian side. None of this pleases Russia, after rescuing Erdogan from the fate suffered by Muammar Ghaddafi. Remember, the Russian Empire and the Ottoman Empire fought at least half a dozen wars in the past, all of which were won by Russia. And remember, the Ottoman Empire was once the Orthodox Christian Byzantine Empire. Moscow today is called the "Third Rome," Byzantium having been the second, until its conquest by Mehmet III in 1453.
To people in America, history is all of 250-400 years. In the rest of the world, history goes back 2,000-5,000 years, and people do not forget old grudges and old ambitions. The Jews in particular nurse their grudges since the Exodus from Egypt, 3,500 years ago. And the reason England is England, (instead of being Mercia, Northumbria, and Cantabria,) and Scotland and Wales are Scotland and Wales, is that the Roman legions never made it to Scotland and Wales. Even though the Normans under William and his descendants conquered them all, the earlier separations persist. The consequences of history do not disappear - they persist for 30-50 generations and more. People in America do not even know our own history of 250 years, much less the millennia of history in other countries.
Finally, Turkey is a large country with a large population, located across one of the most strategic waterways in the world. Its people are smart, well educated, and extremely tough fighters. During the Korean War, the NATO forces which most scared the Chinese were the Turks, not the Americans or the Aussies any of the others. Its military is the second largest in NATO after the USA, and well equipped. Its economy is robust, and its arms industry produces some very sophisticated small arms and drones. Erdogan has all that to work with, and yet he cannot decide which side he trusts. Russia keeps its word, but the US breaks its promises every time the wind changes. If he decides to trust the US, he should remember Henry Kissinger's words: "To be an enemy of the United States is very dangerous. But to be a friend of the United States is fatal."
Your thoughts?
Thank you for your insights and commentary. One of the most profound is “To people in America, history is all of 250-400 years. In the rest of the world, history goes back 2,000-5,000 years,”
Anyway I digress. Sadly I was one of those Americans to more or less degree. Today not so much as I peer through time backward and forward and now know nothing is as it seems. Not even a little bit.
As my father used to say (Thank you dad) “Don’t believe everything you read” He was a critical thinker.
If we look at Turkiye's land-borders (clockwise, and please correct me if I'm wrong here):
o Georgia: color-revolution + NATO-wannabe + war with Russia over South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
o Armenia vs Azerbaijan conflicts (over Nagorno-Karabakh).
o Iran:
a long-time fan and supporter of all things American(/s), includes both Kurds and Azerbaijani minority populations near the Turkish border. (I seem to recall that Turkiye is "building a wall" (TM) along this border to stem the flow of central Asian refugees reaching Turkiye via Iran?)o Iraq:
turned into a shining pillar of Democracy and the envy of all other middle-eastern States through kind intervention.World saved from Iraqi Weapons of Mass Destruction.An excuse for Kellog-Brown-and-Root (KBR) to pillage the US-treasury. An on-going point of instability. The Tigris & Euphrates both have their head-waters in Turkiye, so water-damming projects are contentious (Turkey-Iraq potential water-wars mirror the potential of Ethiopia-Egypt).o Syria: attempted color-revolution and on-going civil-war, with Turkiye, Russia, USA, Israel, and ISIS/Daesh/the-Caliphate (v.2.0-beta) all
contributing to the Peace and Stability ofensuring more chaos in the region.Then there's Cyprus, with it's mixed Turk and Greek population(s)...
Then there's oil-drilling and pipelines in the Eastern Mediterranean...
Istanbul: population almost 16million, sitting astride the Bosporus. See this video for Turkiye's plan to build a by-pass canal. [Link]
...
Turkiye, for even longer than Russia, has wanted to "be a part of Europe / EU", but the EU keeps stringing them on with kind platitudes and promises, all while muttering under their breath: "a snowball in hell has a better chance."
Hasn't the US also sanctioned Turkiye? Got grumpy at Erdoǧan for buying Russian weapons systems, or some such. "You're not allowed to use those in conjunction with NATO weapons!"
I get the impression that Turkiye/Erdoǧan wanted to be European/NATO, and is reluctant to give up what little they've got, but are waking up to the fact that they have been used and abused. The BRICs are not yet a sure thing, but I totally see Turkiye heading that way when the BRIC-reality catches up with its potential.
...
re: your English history lesson: I would have mentioned the role of the West-Saxon kings (Alfred the Great and subsequent) in the formation of the English monarchy -- but yes, history matters, and Robert Burns talked funny (scots-english) because Edinborough was part of Northumbria.
Pretty sure Cantabria is in the Iberian peninsula. You probably meant Cumbria and/or Cumberland, or even Strathclyde - it happens.
The Romans totally owned what is now Wales -- the Anglo-Saxon heptarchy, not so much. Had to wait till the Normans for the 2nd conquest of Wales (isn't "Wales" old-English for "furinners"? the Welsh call themselves Cymry or something like that.)
Thanks for expanding the conversation!
He told us that the first time he drove from Brussels to Liege, the road signs read, "Liege, 50 km," then 10 km later, "Luyk, 40 km," then "Liege, 30 km," then "Luyk, 20 km," then "Liege, 10 km." What was that all about, he asked us?
He said that the road goes in and out of the border between Catholic, French-speaking Wallonia to the south, and Protestant, Flemish-speaking Flanders to the north. Every time the road crosses into their territory, the competing provinces put up a road sign in their own language. (I have checked it on Google maps - he was right.)
Moreover, a Walloon businessman will never give a job to a Flemish applicant, no matter how qualified, and a Flemish boss will never hire a Walloon, no matter how qualified. For a year or two, some years back, Belgium had no government, because of ethnic dissension between the two populations and their political representatives in their parliament. In Catholic Belgium, there are about 200 brands of beer, but up in Protestant Amsterdam, there are only about a dozen. In Catholic Belgium, public toilets have soft bog paper, but in Protestant Holland, the bog paper is hard and scratchy.
So what is all that about? The road from Brussels to Liege runs along the border where the Roman legions stopped, almost 2,000 years ago. South of that border, the people are Catholic and speak French, a Latin-derived language, and north of that border, they are Protestant and speak their Germanic-descended, "barbarian" languages.
TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO, IN A CIVILIZED COUNTRY IN NORTHERN EUROPE !! And these bitter ethnic divisions remain today in the twenty-first century. There is the proof of what I said about history never being forgotten. And one can just surmise how it plays out in a tribal, Middle Eastern, or Asian country. I rest my case on that topic.
As for Erdogan, he is besotted by a vision of himself as the New Ottoman Sultan, ruling over, (or dictating to,) a new Islamic Empire, stretching from the Mediterranean to the borders of China, and even into parts of China itself, meaning Xinjiang. This is not my theory - others have said the same thing:
What makes Recep Erdoğan run? The making of a modern Pasha
Erdoğan began his ascent to power as a social reformer in opposition to the power elite; he was a rabble-rouser for popular Islam and social welfare. Once he takes political power he enriches his...I believe THIS is why his actions are so contradictory, and why I called him unstable. He wants to play with the big boys, and he wants to be a big boy himself, but Turkey, although quite powerful in its own league, is not in the same league as China, the USA, or Russia. That is his problem. Here, for your further enjoyment, is the story of how Putin saved Erdogan's ass in 2016 by forewarning him of his danger, (even after Turkey had illegally shot down a Russian plane.) Putin, you see, thinks several moves ahead, and hoped to split Turkey away from NATO and the USA, but Erdogan is unstable and not a reliable ally, not for anyone, not for the USA, nor for Russia.
Turkish coup attempt, what was behind it?
Evidence and reliably informed speculation are the only two rational means that are, as of yet, available to reconstruct the source behind the 15 July 2016 Turkish coup-attempt. One can reasonably...Have fun!!
-LG.
BTW, we are in complete agreement on spiritual matters. I never replied to your observations a week or two ago - too busy - but I wanted to. Gnosticism - personal experience - is all that matters. Faith and belief will fail, but knowledge cannot be shaken by theories and beliefs.
When one knows there is no such thing as death, when one stands for that which is good and true they are like a rock and can not be moved even if that tornado is on top of their house.
Without the knowledge of reality as it truly is (what one really is) they can fall by the slightest breeze.
No fear. Easy to say hard to put into practice at times.
Build your house on rock not sand as has been said a long time ago and laugh as the tornado surrounds and you peak up the middle of the funnel to eternity.
Love is the universal language. Be that language. Sound is what holds the physical together. Let the trumpets blow till they don’t sound any longer and embrace the bliss of knowing thyself.
Everything is just a metaphor and coincidences do not exist. We are all here at this time for a reason.
Be well and may serenity/love rule your heart. That nameless and timeless peace.
Be that and know you are NEVER alone. The eternal the immutable are with us to the ends of the earth and beyond.
You are loved and I love you too.
I too am a Gnostic. Enlightenment or gnosis is the universal foundation of every religion in the world - the founders of religions, who have knowledge, try to impart it in metaphors and parables, and when they pass on, others come along and interpret those metaphors literally, and a religion is born.
Love is not only the Creator of the universe of universes, it is Life itself. So glad to meet you. I also love you - the God within you, whose love is infinite and unconditional. It reveals itself in Sound and Light, which are real - as the Gospel of John begins, "The Light shineth in the darkness, but the darkness could not comprehend it." The Sound was called by Plato, "The Music of the Spheres." It has been described in many different words. All of it is Love, vibrating in every particle and soul within the Creation.
Yes every thing is a metaphor not just words. I wish I had a gnostic group in my area. I settled for a theosophical group but my heart does not always resonate with some of their ideas. There are times however when I resonate with some if it and that is why I stay. I have been able to see further because of it. On the verge of leaving the group as I don’t feel aligned with what I see as lies perpetrated as truths. I question the honesty of their founders. I found out that they wished to become the one religion of the world that in itself is to use a word is concerning.
The main thing is it has allowed me to rid myself of dogma of my past and push my boundaries regarding being able to see past my self and through others eyes. I know we do not have to reincarnate and we were given the key to escape back to our origin the pleroma. Golgotha. They don’t quite see it that way.
Do you see the refolding of the created world or another round coming as this aeon ends? I see it as the iron with rust and moth and the exact opposite of the gold in the beginning.
I do not wish to see suffering any more and wish to see the chief archon stifled with all it’s hosts.
May the ineffable be all that remains in the hearts of men.
Again thank you for responding.
In the One’s love which surpasses all understanding love and serenity be unto you.
You may be surprised to know that Jesus never left this world, at least, that Holy Spirit which is Source, and which Jesus was sent to manifest to a chosen few, has never left, and is still here to this day. There have always been, and always will be, Saviors, sent by Source to play the most delicious game of love in the universe, the game of love between the lost souls, the Prodigal Sons who have grown weary of this material creation, and who long to return to their Father's house... between them and the Father Himself.
Saint Augustine said: "The greatest adventure in this life is to seek God.... The greatest achievement in this life is to find God.... The greatest romance in this life is to fall in love with God."
How can we do that, if we have never seen God? Because God has sent his Sons, thousands of them, to guide us and show us the Way back to our Home. Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Zoroaster, Mithras, Tulsi Das, Lao Tzu, Hafiz, Rumi, Rabia Basri, Shams-i-Tabriz, and thousands more, in every country and in every age. They are always here, but finding them is very difficult, because very few souls are ready to leave this place, and so they stay hidden.
It is not a question of God being capricious or picky. It takes many, many lifetimes of longing, and of searching, and of purification, before the soul is ready. We have accumulated so much dirt in our many lifetimes (hundreds, perhaps,) that it takes many lifetimes of searching and prayer to shed enough of that dirt that our spiritual eyes can bear the Light of God. A dirty soul would be blinded and go insane if God revealed Himself to such a one. And God is infinitely kind and compassionate, and would not inflict that revelation forcibly on any of His beloved children.
We have been given free will to choose to remain here or to leave, but for so long - so many lifetimes - we have chosen to remain, that the choice to leave is a huge and drastic step, not to be undertaken lightly.
The treasure of Love, once experienced and known, is far, far more wonderful and precious than any material thing this world has to offer. It is a joy "that passeth all understanding." Only those who have known it can understand what that is.
And as for reincarnation, we are not forced to reincarnate. We choose it. Hard to understand, but it is because in the beginning we find the sensual delights irresistible, until finally we come to realize that time after time, we lose it all when we die, and we get tired of this unending pain of loss. And then, when we decide to go back home from here, we learn more, and approach closer to the Source, here in this world of suffering than in the realms of glory and bliss. Here is a video for you to watch: [Link] Then, after that one, here is another: [Link]
Watch those - please - you will be happy you did, I promise. And then, please tell me where you are. I am in Virginia, USA.
May you walk in the light of peace, love, and joy, my friend.
The Nag Hammadi is my greatest resource today it has confirmed what I knew in my heart for so very long.
I see reincarnation not as a choice but a trick of the archons of this world to continue to feed amongst other things.
I am no theosophist by their definition in that I do not agree in reincarnation to achieve perfection but as a way to continually be debased and lose more of what we had until nothing is left. I do not see eye to eye at all with their idea regarding that matter.
The truth is self evident if one can see past the illusion of this material existence. The pleroma awaits. I for one am planning to escape this fleshly prison by Ialdaboth.
I look forward to viewing the material you linked.
One thing I can say is without that group I would not have looked at some of those you listed. I joined to push myself out of my comfort zone.
An excellent gnostic who wrote a book called Can You Stand the Truth may be found here. [Link] as well as videos she has made. Being Greek she lends her ability to decipher the truth of those original words translated into our tongue of English. Over all I think the work spot on and it resonates within my heart. She catapulted me further into allowing the gnosis already within us all to be more amplified within my self.
Hope this was coherent or at least enough that you are aquatinted with my thought sufficiently to see/feel/understand my thought accurately. Very tired.
Thank you for taking the time to commune with me.
I shall return after viewing recommended material.
Namaste
If one construes that salvation comes only through "MONOGENOS THEOS," that means "The Only Begotten of God." If, however, one construes it to say "MONO GENOSTHEOS," that means salvation comes through "Only The Begotten of God." A huge difference. It would mean Jesus is not the only one, and that salvation comes only through any one of thousands of sons, all of whom were begotten by God. The latter is the correct interpretation.
I'm saying this because if you were studying to become a minister, you may be familiar with the Codex Sinaiaticus, which is the same as the Codex Vaticanus, kept locked away in the Vatican and only permitted to be read by accredited theologians, who are not allowed to copy it or make notes. One sits at a desk with a priest on the other side watching your every move, to make sure you comply with these conditions.
Both Codices were part of a set of 50 copies of the New Testament, copied in the Scriptorium at Caesarea in 350 AD by order of the Emperor Constantius II for distribution to all the Christian churches of the Eastern Roman Empire. A fabulously expensive production, which only an Emperor could afford. There are good reasons the Vatican does not want their Codex copied. There are some startling differences with the later texts such as those from which our modern Bible is translated, which cast doubt on the entire Christian narrative.
Anyway, it's 11:30 pm here in Virginia and also in Massachusetts, so you are probably in bed, which is where I need to head for. We'll continue this later. God bless... "LG"