Health & Wellness

The real reason the AHA still fear saturated fat?

Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt
Diet Doctor
Thu, 22 Jun 2017 14:47 UTC

So the American Heart Association (AHA) recently announced they still believe that natural saturated fats are bad, bad, bad. That's quite surprising considering all the new reviews of all relevant science showing zero evidence for that old and failed theory.

So how come the AHA still somehow manages to stay a believer? Who knows, maybe they'd rather not bite the hand that feeds them. It turns out they recently received a cool $500,000 as a little gift from the competing vegetable oil industry:

Soybean industry gives $500K to AHA which in recent advisory promotes soybean oil instead of sat fats. Related? https://t.co/KhoHzIrcRh

— Nina Teicholz (@bigfatsurprise) June 20, 2017

Coincidence or not? There might be something to that old Upton Sinclair quote: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it."

Bayer: Bayer and LibertyLink Soybeans Help Protect Hearts in America's Heartland

Comment: See also: Saturated Fat: Health Food or Health Hindrance?

Reader Comments

win 52 · 2017-06-22T22:46:34Z

What is good for you is bad for businesses. Beware of sheep in wolf's clothing!

Hello H2O · 2017-06-23T00:17:34Z

When I started using coconut oil about 10 years ago, not very many places carried it. Now it seems to be everywhere. I think that is what they are scared of. But I would think that most people that use coconut oil have researched it, and won't buy the drivel coming out of the AHA.

Probably only hoping to stem new users.

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-23T02:24:45Z

Hello H2O 87% of coconut oil is saturated fat. 15% of soybean oil is saturated fat. I don't understand what your point is?

Divide By Zero · 2017-06-23T10:13:16Z

Rope for Sale That the industry pushes mostly unsaturated fats which are less healthy than saturated fats. Soybean oil and canola are heavily promoted by agribusiness using the myth that saturated fats (including animal fats) are "bad"

Divide By Zero · 2017-06-23T20:05:10Z

Rope for Sale And I don't understand what your point is, unless I assume that you are trying to defend your belief that animal fats cause heart disease. No, and vegetarianism does not work. My deputy Chief at work just got a heart attack, and guess what... He was big into the ayurveda vegetarian diet, lol

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-23T22:36:09Z

Divide By Zero Vegetarian diets are bad. Vegetarians tend to replace meat with cheese. Dairy is worse for the body than meat due to its high IGF-1 content. Your deputy chief probably had a heart condition long before he changed his diet. I'm guessing he changed his diet because of it? All processed oils and fats are bad for you, it is a processed food. All the fat a body needs per day is available in a few walnuts or a couple of tbsp of chia seeds. Flax seeds are another source. Animal fats cause too much damage to the environment, are wasteful to grow and collect and cause the unnecessary suffering of another sentient being. For cooking you can fry in water, it generally results in the food turning out tastier and is a cleaner process. My point was that coconut oil is bad for you, there is a myth circulating that it is healthy.

What in your opinion causes arterial plaque build which leads to atherosclerosis?

Divide By Zero · 2017-06-25T22:56:17Z

Rope for Sale Plaque, not sure, many factors like "plastic" hydrogenated fats which the body clings onto when there is a lack of proper saturated fat. Also a lack of vitamin c could contribute as Linus Pauling theorized. In many cases, insulin resistance due to excessive carbs/sugar can damage cells.

Keep in mind that heart disease skyrocketed as they cut down on lard and butter to promote margarine, soybean oil.

I agree about dairy being harmful. But a vegetarian or vegan diet most times do not satisfy the body's need for saturated fat and our digestive system is not long enough to extract the plant nutrients as a cow's is for example. I too hate the idea that things need to die for me to live but that's the way it goes for a lion, etc... Omnivores can live on vegetables/fruits but it's not natural to our evolution/digestive system.

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-26T03:55:27Z

Divide By Zero Your information is incorrect. The body only needs omega 3 long chain fatty acids. There is enough in half a cup of walnuts or two tablespoons of chia seeds.

Arterial plaque is made up of cholesterol and calcium. So your trying to tell me that it's not the excess cholesterol in a diet that results in arterial plaque build up? Lard is 96mg of cholesterol per 100g. An egg is 373mg of cholesterol per 100g. The body needs zero cholesterol beyond what is produced in the liver which is 1-2 grams per day.

In the recent Broad study in Gisbourn New Zealand a low sociodemographic area. A vegan diet was studied against the standard western diet. The group on the vegan diet saw a reduction in body mass and cholesterol levels without exercise. This study proved a cholesterol dose response in the participants cholesterol levels. Also there were participants with diabetes, those on the whole foods plant based diet reduced their medication, one went hypoglycemic the result was so significant and another was able to stop there diabetes medication altogether.

[Link]
Diabetes is caused by fat blocking the insulin receptors on the cells.

[Link]
Our digestive tract is not designed for breaking down grass. Vegans don't eat grass so I don't understand what your point is.

There is no requirement for animal products in the human diet and this is proven. Please point me to the study that says otherwise.

Ivan8er · 2017-06-27T20:23:56Z

Divide By Zero Dude or dud-ette, your wasting your time talking to Rope For Sale, this person is obviously a tree hugging, rock licker, look no farther than the ANIMAL FATS CAUSE TOO MUCH DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT. I'm fairly certain this person is a vegan, and vegans already know everything, so nothing you say will change their minds. Look at their comment: all the fat a body needs you can get from a few walnuts and some chia seed oil and everything will be right as rain. Yuck! There are numerous studies that show animal fats have nothing to do with heart disease. In fact if you are a vegan, you have a three fold chance of heart disease because your diet is based on grains, which increases inflammation. then he goes on to cite a study you probably couldn't find if you try, and list this that are absolute false: the biggest whopper is fat causes diabetes. If you want to know about health from a doctor, look no farther the a good Naturopath, since they are trained in nutrition and medical doctors are not. I recommend Dr Peter Glidden ND (Glidden.healthcare) or Dr Joel Wallach ND. By the way, animal fat is required, and its good for you.

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-27T22:14:06Z

Ivan8er I provided links that take you directly to a download of the Broad study paper? If you can't find that then how did you manage to turn your PC on?

Where are your links?

All I ever see here is this doctor says this, that study says that but no one ever provides a link to the information because 90% of it is from .com articles which are nothing more than online advertising for some bizarre snake oil product or simply some women's magazine article.

You talk a lot but seem unable to provide any scientific evidence for your claims.

Ivan8er · 2017-06-28T04:58:07Z

Rope for Sale Just because you read a study doesn't make true. Unless you know whether or not the study was done properly, the results could be somebody's fiction. The link you provided under the statement "diabetes is caused by fat blocking the insulin receptor on the cells" was a randomized study done for one year, and they admit the participant didn't adhere to the diet as prescribed. Also did you read the conflict of interest statement? I'm guessing you didn't. This study BOGUS at best. The statement, DIABETES IS CAUSED BY FAT BLOCKING INSULIN RECEPTORS ON THE CELLS, is a load of BS. Type I diabetes is caused by not having functioning beta cells in the pancreas, type II diabetes is nothing more than a nutritional deficiency, it has nothing to do with fat in your cells or any where else for that matter. Since you cited the article from Dr. Michael Greger MD, and I'm guessing you must be watching his youtube videos, read his books, and are a member of his web site, and most importantly following his advice. It may surprise you to know that medical doctor are not required to know anything about nutrition to get a medical license. The Mayo clinic says "Type 2 diabetes develops when the body becomes resistant to insulin or when the pancreas stops producing enough insulin. Exactly why this happens is unknown, although genetics and environmental factors, such as excess weight and inactivity, seem to be contributing factors", I did see anything about fat on the Mayo clinic web site. Did you read the part about they don't know exactly why it happens? Endocrineweb says its genetic and lifestyle, again nothing about fat. I'll bet the National Institute of Health (NIH) knows what causes type II diabetes, that's the Head Cheese of medical doctors, the Big Guys, they have to know. NOPE! They are leaning on the " lifestyle factors and genes" BS. I'm getting tired of looking up websites that all say the same thing. Best I can tell is the only person so far that say's it's the fat blocking the insulin receptors is the the guy you quoted. Unless Dr Greger has gone through 4 years of nutritional training like the Naturopath's do, he doesn't know squat about nutrition. Trip on over to UT Southwestern"s website, their entire curriculum is on line. You'll find nutrition in the electives, that is one course on nutrition, and I'm fairly positive it goes something like this " EAT A DIET LOW IN FAT AND CHOLESTEROL, GET YOUR 7 TO 11 SERVING OF FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, AND DON'T FORGET YOUR FIBER". Medical doctor's have no prevention and no cure for type II diabetes, yet the Naturopath's I know have helped tens of thousands of people recover from it. Type II diabetes is a nutritional deficiency pure and simple. I eat a high fat diet ( which includes many delicious animals ) and I will never get type II diabetes, because I supplement the nutrients required to keep it away. People don't get diseases because they eat animal fat, or genetics, they get sick because they're nutritionally deficient, they're nutritionally deficient because there aren't enough nutrients in the food.

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-28T13:45:04Z

What is stopping a Doctor studying nutrition? Nothing. Does Dr Greger study nutrition? Yes he does. Is he paid by any pharmaceutical or agricultural corporation? No. Is he selling anything through his website? No Is he promoting any products? No

I understand the difference between type one and two diabetes. Of course fat is not the only cause, fat exacerbates the problem though and does block the insulin receptors of cells.

" EAT A DIET LOW IN FAT AND CHOLESTEROL, GET YOUR 7 TO 11 SERVING OF FRUITS AND VEGETABLES, AND DON'T FORGET YOUR FIBER"

This a whole food plant based diet. Which also happens to be rich in Nutrients. Are you aware that most diabetics report that meat spikes their blood sugar more than High fibre vegetables and fruits? Do you understand the role fibre plays in the gut and how it blunts blood sugar spikes? Tell me what foods are high on the GI list? Processed foods. What is butter, coconut oil, soybean oil? Calorie dense food which as you say yourself "there aren't enough nutrients in the food."

NZ has a large Pacific Islander population most of them are overweight. Their ancestors never had access to a high fat diet unlike Europeans. There body seems very good at storing excess calories as fat. Genes do play a role in health and metabolism. The Broad study proved a direct cholesterol dose response to blood cholesterol levels. Those on the whole foods plant based diet saw a need to reduce if not eliminate their diabetes medication. Tell me what other diet does this as well as a vegan diet? ADA diet? Paleo? Atkins?

"Just because you read a study doesn't make true. Unless you know whether or not the study was done properly, the results could be somebody's fiction."

The whole point of reading the study is to check that isn't it? I also live in NZ and heave seen, read and heard reports on the study. They involved the community as a whole and this is why it was so successful. The study is continuing by the way.

"I eat a high fat diet ( which includes many delicious animals ) and I will never get type II diabetes, because I supplement the nutrients required to keep it away. People don't get diseases because they eat animal fat, or genetics, they get sick because" They get their calories from calorie dense, nutritionally empty processed foods like oil, sugar, processed meat and cheese.

The general consensus is that vegans eat a restrictive diet that is deficient in nutrients, the opposite is in fact true of vegans who follow a whole food plant based diet. Things are changing in the world and with tools like cronometer [Link] it is relatively easy to ensure you are not acquiring a deficiency.

Getting your nutrients from supplements just so that you can eat dead animals cooked in processed oils is not healthy. You are setting yourself up for a fall.

You will find that as you get older your body will struggle to get the nutrition it needs and your arteries and liver are going to suffer.

Dr Neal Barnard also promotes a low fat diet for heart disease and diabetes, the diet actually alters what goes on in an individual’s cells. Rather than just compensate for malfunctioning insulin, like other treatment plans, Dr. Barnard’s program helps repair how the body uses insulin.

Fat and diabetes, Neal Barnard, M.D.

[Link]
Explanation of Vegan Diabetes Rates (68% less):

[Link]
Vegan Heart Disease Deaths 26% Lower - Adventist II Review:

[Link]
Epic-Oxford Review Projecting 57% less heart disease for vegans:

[Link]
Coconut Oil vs. Butter Study: Coconut oil raised LDL 10 points

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Coconut Oil Raises LDL study:

[Link]
Soy, Palm, and Olive Oil vs. Arteries Study:

http://www.nmcd-journal.com/article/S...)

Strokes and Thrombosis:

[Link]
Coagulation Factor VII and Oils:

[Link]
Oils and Fatty Blood Study:

[Link]
Neal Barnard on Intramyocellular Lipids:

[Link]
Average LDL USA:

[Link]
Optimal LDL 50-70 Study:

[Link]
3.5 Year Vegan Blood Test (Vegan JUNK FOOD vs. Whole Food Plant Based) Why WFPB is important.

[Link]

Ivan8er · 2017-06-29T17:48:55Z

Rope for Sale List all the Vegan BS you want, but take a look at your very own Dr Michael Greger on youtube talking about vegans have essentially the same rate of heart disease as meat eaters. Here's the Dr Greger again talking about an 18 year study of vegan's, and there is virtually no difference between meat eaters and vegans when relating to diseases. In fact you have twice the risk of dying from degenerative brain disease. This is the best part ( are you ready for it?) a study of 17,000 vegetarians, ( your not going to believe this), the conclusions were the same, virtually no difference between vegetarians and meat eaters. There is nothing I like more than one of your own ( DR Greger ) totally refuting practically everything you think to be true. Here's a few things to think about

; you may be at a higher risk if degenerative brain disease because the brain is 75% myelin, myelin is 95% cholesterol. I know what you might be thinking, the liver makes cholesterol. The only problem, is only supplies about 20 to 30 % needed to stay healthy. So if you listen to your medical doctor and start using a statin drug, exercise too much, or go on a vegetarian or vegan diet, you just screwed yourself. Because if you don't consume enough cholesterol, your body will scavenge it from your nervous system. Since your brain holds most of the cholesterol, CAN YOU SAY ALZHIEMERS? If there is no inflammation in the body, you could have a cholesterol level of 300 or more and not have a problem. This is one thing I just have to laugh at, vegetarians, vegans, and so called nutritional experts love to talk about nutrient dense foods. There is no guarantee any of the food you eating is nutrient dense, because if the soil lacks minerals , there will be very in the food. Plants require very few minerals to thrive, but humans require 60. No where on planet earth will you find all 60 minerals in one place. The fact is people with high cholesterol live longer! As you age your cholesterol increases. The whole cholesterol and fat BS started in this country by one man, Ancel Keys. Keys was a physiologist, we now know that Ancel Keys was a lying rat bastard. This guy falsified much of his research to advance an agenda.

As for Dr Neal Bernard, another clueless doctor flogging the fat blocks insulin. Don't tell that to the Inuit Alaskans that follow a traditional diet. Because the Inuits eat ONLY FATTY MEATS. No fruits, no vegetables, no fiber. Just fatty meats. There have been no documented cases of cancer in an Inuit, and for the most part are disease free. I want to emphasize only the ones that follow the traditional diet, because too many of them have added western just and guess what, they start getting the same diseases we get. Imagine that. Two Medical doctors back in the 1920's couldn't believe the Inuit diet was healthy. So the lock themselves into a New York hospital for one year, and ate nothing but fatty meats. Wouldn't you know, they came out as healthy as they went in, they didn't develop diabetes or any other disease. Here's a plus, they came out a few pounds lighter.

You listed a few link to oil's, I didn't bother to even look, because oil in a bottle is disease causing. All the oils you listed oxidize when exposed to oxygen, creating free radicals, free radicals cause oxydative damage, which creates inflammation, which causes diseases, so there are no safe oil in a bottle.

One of the doctors I listen to has helped more people recover from diseases that medical doctors have no clue how to fix.

In the 1980's Evander Holyfield had a heart attack in the ring. Holfield got his boxing license within one year and eventually regained his title.

Coretta Scott King want to march in the 50th anniversary of Dr Kings Selma march, my doctor help her to rid herself of her arthritic knees.

Theo Ratliff, three to four years into his professional career, was told by the best bone doctors in the natiion that his career was over. He had stress fracture in numerous bones and his knee and ankle joints were in such bad shape they said they would have to wire them together if he continued to play. Thanks to my doctor, Theo played for about ten more years, because Theo was put on a medical nutrition program, he mended his bones and regrew the cartilage in his joints.

Mayor Andrew Young ( Atlanta Mayor in the 1980's ) was scheduled for double knee replacement. Thanks to my doctor, he canceled the surgery.

Creflo Dollar's daughter was dying in the hospital of asthma. The doctors had given up, their treatments had failed ( what a shocker huh ). My doctor treated her and thankfully she is still alive, and best of all she is asthma free.

My point of these examples is: if you could find nutrient dense food ( which is impossible ) you would remain relatively disease free, my other point is, medical doctors are blind to nutritional supplementation, and you cant take most medical doctor and train them in medical nutrition because they were taught in a very prejudicial manor that nutritional supplements are dangerous, or your just wasting your money because hey don't work, or the usual you'll just give yourself expensive pee.

The fact is there is no such thing as a healthy diet ( unless spoken by medical doctors, nutritionist, vegans, vegetarian....name your what ever know it all group ), this is something you just cannot convince vegans and vegetarians because they have the same arrogant tunnel vision that medical doctors have.

Ivan8er · 2017-06-29T21:15:38Z

Rope for Sale It just dawned on me, I need to find a study about vegetarians and diabetes. The only one I could find was this reference to, ( and I'm assume there are so few people doing the vegetarian/vegan diet that nobody cares about studying them ), this study: Adventist Health Study-2 showed vegans to have a 68% lower rate of diabetes than non-vegetarians. Huh 68% lower rate, that must mean there are a bunch of vegetarians/vegans out the with diabetes. Now watch this, I'm going to apply Dr Greger, and Dr Barnard ( the idiotic logic you believe about what causes diabetes) to the statements you've made. So here goes, if animal fat causes diabetes, then why doesn't everybody that eats animal fat have it? And, since vegans especially and vegetarians don't consume all that animal fat, there shouldn't be any of them that have diabetes. There are hundreds of millions of people that eat animal fat, yet they never get diabetes. The fact is the way insulin gets into a cell is through a chemical reaction. A chemical reaction that can only happen when the right nutrients are present, and those nutrients are minerals. In fact, most of the chemical processes going on in the body, are due to vitamins and minerals. So insulin comes knocking on the cell door and says let me in, if the proper nutrients are present, insulin gets in, if not you end up going to a medical doctor who doesn't even know what causes the diabetes. If they don't know what causes it, how can you treat it? Medical doctors cure virtually nothing when it comes to chronic diseases, but they're really good at managing it, and sucking your pocket book and insurance dry. Here's a big hint, medical doctors are not trained to cure most chronic diseases, because if they did that, they would go out of business. Medical doctors are really good at trauma, broken bones, lacerations, a few infectious diseases or if you need a bullet dug out, but they absolutely have no training in nutrition and no traing in curing chronic diseases, because its designed that way to keep the doctors and the pharmaceutical companies in business. As I said in the other post, Dr Greger's youtube video where he talks about the comparison in two different studies of vegetarians and meat eaters blows your arguments out of the water, as he states he was blown away, because there is virtually no difference. The only thing I can see is, so far we have two doctors who say diabetes is caused by fat, and potentially tens of thousands of doctors that say it other things, even though they don't know either. from my side of the fence, it looks like nobody is going to buying any ROPE.

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-30T01:25:13Z

Ivan8er "take a look at your very own Dr Michael Greger on youtube talking about vegans have essentially the same rate of heart disease as meat eaters."

Ok I will look. Can't find anything. I found this. Uprooting the Leading Causes of Death [Link]
"Here's the Dr Greger again talking about an 18 year study of vegan's, and there is virtually no difference between meat eaters and vegans when relating to diseases."

Where? Where is the reference? No link? See my above.

"In fact you have twice the risk of dying from degenerative brain disease."

You are talking about B12 deficiency here I assume? My B12 is 470 pmol/L The range is 170-600. What is your B12? I bet you have no idea most animal consumers rely on the supplements the animals they eat are given to get theirs and are just as likely, if not more to be B12 deficient. My B12 has actually increased. Two years ago it was 353 pmol/L.

What study where is the link or reference? Your just talking nonsense with nothing to back it up.

"; you may be at a higher risk if degenerative brain disease because the brain is 75% myelin, myelin is 95% cholesterol."

Actually myelin is about 40% water; the dry mass is about 70–85% lipids and about 15–30% proteins.[Link]
The Myelin Sheath and MS. This Treatment Stops 95% of Multiple Sclerosis Cases?! [Link]
"I know what you might be thinking, the liver makes cholesterol. The only problem, is only supplies about 20 to 30 % needed to stay healthy."

Source, reference? I can not find any reliable information that supports this statement.

"So if you listen to your medical doctor and start using a statin drug, exercise too much, or go on a vegetarian or vegan diet, you just screwed yourself. Because if you don't consume enough cholesterol, your body will scavenge it from your nervous system. Since your brain holds most of the cholesterol, CAN YOU SAY ALZHIEMERS?"

The body does not need cholesterol in the diet to make cholesterol. It's like saying if you want a bigger penis then you must eat big penises.

Alzheimers is the mental equivalent of heart disease caused by clogging of the brains arteries with atheroma plaque.[Link]
This leads to areas of the brain dying off due to decreased blood flow. Dr Alois Alzheimer noted this when he first discovered it in Auguste Deter. [Link]
Choleterol makes up part of every cell in your body not just your brain. Your brain only contains 25% of it. It would not scavenge the brain first.[Link]
What is the ideal cholesterol level. Here is Loren Cordain's findings (founder of the paleo diet not vegan) .Optimal low-density lipoprotein is 50 to 70 mg/dl: Lower is better and physiologically normal.[Link]
"You listed a few link to oil's, I didn't bother to even look, because oil in a bottle is disease causing. All the oils you listed oxidize when exposed to oxygen, creating free radicals, free radicals cause oxydative damage, which creates inflammation, which causes diseases, so there are no safe oil in a bottle."

This proves to me that you are not reading what I post or even looking at the links. Oil is a processed food like all processed food it is bad for you. At least we can agree on that. Which was the main reason I first commented on this article. Ironic eh? You actually agreed with me.

As for the rest of your Diatribe I'm not going any further. You don't post any references to substantiate you claims which results in them as coming across as nothing more than pseudo science.

You also fail to realise that there is a large difference between vegans and vegetarians and what negative effects a vegetarian diet has on the body. I actually believe that a paleo diet that avoids eggs and dairy is better for you than a vegetarian diet.

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-30T01:50:41Z

Ivan8er "It just dawned on me, I need to find a study about vegetarians and diabetes."

It just dawned on me you have no idea that a Vegetarian diet is completely different from a whole foods plant based diet.

It also dawned on me you have no idea about substantiating your statements with references to support your claims. I do however know the Adventist study you are referring to, because I posted a link to it above.

"Huh 68% lower rate, that must mean there are a bunch of vegetarians/vegans out the with diabetes."

Yes 68% lower did you miss that bit in your glee at discovering that people that eat a junk food vegan diet can get diabetes? Read above in my comments I cover the difference between whole food plant based diet and high fat, high sugar processed food junk food vegan diet.

"68% lower rate" Read it again!

You are cherry picking and failing to look at the whole picture. Fat is a cause of diabetes as is a nutrient deficient diet and Beta cell damage.

"There are hundreds of millions of people that eat animal fat, yet they never get diabetes."

There are millions of vegans on the planet, of which 68% less of them compared to the meat eaters get diabetes. I'd say those are 68 reasons not to eat animal products.

"So insulin comes knocking on the cell door and says let me in, if the proper nutrients are present, insulin gets in, if not you end up going to a medical doctor who doesn't even know what causes the diabetes. If they don't know what causes it, how can you treat it?"

It can't enter the cell if it's key way is gummed up with fat even if the cell contains the right nutrients. [Link] To treat this the doctor prescribes you drugs, then he goes on holiday paid for by the pharmaceutical company, he doesn't need to really know or have any interest in how diabetes works, he merely looks at your blood test results and takes your vitals. Something else we agree on.

"As I said in the other post, Dr Greger's youtube video where he talks about the comparison in two different studies of vegetarians and meat eaters blows your arguments out of the water, as he states he was blown away, because there is virtually no difference"

I'd like to see this mythical video you keep alluding to but until you post a link, reference or title than I'm afraid I can't find it. It must not exist or you are taking his words of context and misquoting him. I notice that you never use speech marks though.

"The only thing I can see is, so far we have two doctors who say diabetes is caused by fat, and potentially tens of thousands of doctors that say it other things, even though they don't know either. from my side of the fence, it looks like nobody is going to buying any ROPE."

I see a bunch of doctors who you said yourself know nothing about nutrition and diet and how they affect health. I see a few doctors who have studied nutrition and diet and work for organistaions that are trying to reverse this ignorance. I think you are doing a fantastic job of hanging yourself. Nothing you have yet written is proven as you have no reference to back up any claim you have made apart from the 68% lower rate of diabetes for vegans which was my linked paper anyway.

MORE ROPE SIR?

elbo · 2017-06-28T16:49:17Z

Here are just a few articles for those that may wish to investigate the Vegetarian myth. A simple use of the Search function here can lead to plenty of data in order to better educate yourself.

Why vegetarianism and high-carb diets have destroyed the health of people and planet - Interview with Lierre Keith

The following is an excellent interview by Deborah Donnier, journalist and entrepreneur, with Lierre Keith, author of The Vegetarian Myth, during a health conference in Reims, France, on November...

SOTT Focus:Behind the Headlines: Dissecting the Vegetarian Myth - Interview with Lierre Keith

This week on SOTT Talk Radio we interviewed author and activist Lierre Keith, whose book The Vegetarian Myth examines the tenets of vegetarian ideology from dietary, environmental and...

[Link]

SOTT Focus:The Health & Wellness Show: 19 January 2015 -- The Vegetarian Myth

The Health and Wellness show on the SOTT Radio Network covers topics of health, diet, science, homeopathy, wellness culture, and more. This week's show covers The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith,...

Rope for Sale · 2017-06-28T21:41:06Z

elbo Lierre Keith is an American writer, radical feminist, food activist, and radical environmentalist. Not a vegan, not a nutritionist, not a dietitian, not a scientist, not a doctor, nor has she been any of these, ever.. I'm surprised people still try and use her videos and books to attack veganism as she is old news and has been debunked so many times by so many different people she has become nothing more than a joke.

"Lierre Keith suffers from numerous chronic health problems. Unable to secure a diagnosis for most of them, she decided that the vegan diet she had followed for twenty years was to blame."

Review of “The Vegetarian Myth”

[Link]
" Lierre Keith’s The Vegetarian Myth is a book so riddled with errors and sloppy logic that, as I read it, I kept thinking that it would take a lifetime to undo, contextualize, and correct the myriad inaccuracies that mar this book."

“The Vegetarian Myth” Myth: A Blogger Confronts Keith’s Propaganda with Facts

[Link]
lierre keith gets pied at the anarchist book fair

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Please look into the difference between a vegan whole foods plant based diet and a vegetarian diet. Vegetarians are generally on a diet far worse than diets that shun dairy and consume meat. Vegetarians tend to replace meat in their diet with dairy products like cheese which are far worse for the body and environment than say a paleo diet that avoids dairy but includes lean meat. Look into what IGF-1 and Neu5gc do to the body.

Female cancers risk vegan vs vegetarian:

[Link]
Vegan less hypothyroidism, vegetarians more:

[Link]
Egg consumption and exponential artery clogging:

[Link]
300,000 person egg and cardiovascular disease meta analysis:

[Link]
IGF-1 Animal Protein Study:

[Link]
IGF-1 Congenital Deficiency and Cancer:

[Link]
Estrogen raises, testosterone lowers after drinking milk:

[Link]
60-80% of exogenous estrogen from dairy:

[Link]

Ivan8er · 2017-06-30T14:42:07Z

Rope for Sale Here's what surprises me. You continue extolling the virtues of a plant based diet when the one of the sources you like, cites two different studies that show there is virtually no difference in the health between meat eaters and vegetarians. Talk about a hollow argument! Since you and others like you mention eating nutrient dense foods, you would be doing yourself a giant favor to study phytic acid and lectins. While current research shows phytic acid isn't harmful to the body, the do have an affinity to bind to many important minerals, and you end up flushing them down the toilet. Lectins on the other hand cause inflammation in the body, lectins are found in the hulls of most grains. This could be why vegetarians are no better off health wise, than meat eaters. Since many of our diseases are caused by inflammation, going vegetarian makes no sense. As Dr Greger points out in one of the studies, vegetarians have TWICE THE HIP FRACTURE RATE rate of meat eaters. These numbers alone should tell you, your not getting enough calcium. Hows those nutrient dense foods looking now? Osteoporosis isn't a disease, it's nothing more than your body scavenging the minerals from your bones. The reason for this: THERE AREN'T ENOUGH NUTRIENTS IN THE FOOD! There are approximate 900 diseases connected to calcium deficiency alone. Let just cut to the chase: it's not just hard, or difficult, to get the nutrition you need from food. IT IMPOSSIBLE! This is why vegetarian mortality is the same as meat eaters. As for lowering cholesterol, people with low cholesterol, are also associated with cancer.

Animal research has already proved that nutrient deficiencies are the cause of over 900 diseases and 97 percent of all birth defects. Here is the sad part, all of this research was done in the mid to late 1970's, but because we are stuck with medical doctor research, and all nutritional research is stifled by the medical community and the pharmaceutical companies, you rarely hear about it.

To stay healthy, you need:

60 minerals

16 vitamins

12 amino acids

2 essential fatty acids

Please notice, the minerals are the lions share of the nutrients you need every day. It is IMPOSSIBLE to get all of these nutrients from food alone. This is why everybody eventually contracts a disease. The vegetarians and vegans can hope and wish your way to good health, the studies quoted by Dr Greger, prove otherwise. Soap on a Rope For Sale needs to get off his/her high horse and get a clue. YOUNGEVITY.COM

Rope for Sale · 2017-07-01T02:16:58Z

Ivan8er "You continue extolling the virtues of a plant based diet when the one of the sources you like, cites two different studies that show there is virtually no difference in the health between meat eaters and vegetarians. "

Once again no reference to the study you are talking about? Once again you fail to read my posts. Once again you fail to recognise the difference between vegan whole food plant based diet and a vegetarian diet. There is no difference in health between a vegetarians and meat eaters is because when vegetarians remove the meat from their diet they tend to double up on the cheese, dairy and eggs which is worse for the body than lean meats in my opinion. Why after I have explained this above to you keep regurgitating it?

"This could be why vegetarians are no better off health wise, than meat eaters. Since many of our diseases are caused by inflammation, going vegetarian"

See what I mean you just Blah blah blah on and on about the same thing which I have already addressed. You are failing to read or understand the difference between vegan and vegetarian even when I explain to you the differences?

"As Dr Greger points out in one of the studies, vegetarians have TWICE THE HIP FRACTURE RATE rate of meat eaters."

Yes do you understand why? Because they consume dairy products. You are trying to take what he says out of context and failing miserably.

"Osteoporosis isn't a disease, it's nothing more than your body scavenging the minerals from your bones. The reason for this: THERE AREN'T ENOUGH NUTRIENTS IN THE FOOD!"

No there are plenty of nutrients in a whole food plant based diet but people eat other things like calorie dense nutritionally hollow processed food like oils, sugar, dairy, bread, cakes, fizzy drinks, sweets and chocolate. These are the reasons people end up with deficiencies.

On a whole food plant based diet it is impossible not to get the recommended daily requirements of vitamins, minerals and nutrients if you are meeting the recommend calorie intake for your age, weight and activity level, unless you are eating only one or two different foods in large quantities which is not recommended.

"There are approximate 900 diseases connected to calcium deficiency alone."

This is why societies that shun dairy have lower incidences of hip fracture rates. Western societies have a higher incidence of hip fracture and osteoporosis. Here is a study that links dairy consumption with hip fracture incidence. If you look at the graph you will see that the countries with high dairy consumption are have high hip fracture incidence. The countries with little to no dairy consupmtion have lowest hip fracture incidence. This statement comes from the article

"An increasing amount of evidence now shows that milk is not the best source of calcium at all and suggests that our bone health would benefit enormously if we switched to plant-based sources."[Link]
Th UK National Osteoporosis Society states "A vegetarian diet is not a risk factor for osteoporosis and vegetarians and vegans do not appear to have poorer bone health than the rest of the population."[Link]
Harvard School Of public Health has issued this paper.

"Calcium: What’s Best for Your Bones and Health?"[Link]
Here are some shortened extracts under the heading

"Should You Get Calcium from Milk?

When most people in the United States think of calcium, they immediately think of milk. But should this be so? Milk is actually only one of many sources of calcium—dark leafy green vegetables and some types of legumes are among the other sources—and there are some important reasons why milk may not be the best source for everyone.

These reasons include the following:

Lactose Intolerance

High Saturated Fat Content

Possible Increased Risk of Ovarian Cancer

Probable Increased Risk of Prostate Cancer

Vitamin K, which is found mainly in green, leafy vegetables, likely plays one or more important roles in calcium regulation and bone formation. Low levels of circulating vitamin K have been linked with low bone density, and supplementation with vitamin K shows improvements in biochemical measures of bone health. "

"Let just cut to the chase: it's not just hard, or difficult, to get the nutrition you need from food. IT IMPOSSIBLE!"

Ridiculous comment that is unsubstantiated.

"This is why vegetarian mortality is the same as meat eaters. As for lowering cholesterol, people with low cholesterol, are also associated with cancer."

No links or references, more ridiculous unbelievable comments with nothing to substantiate any of them.

"Animal research has already proved that nutrient deficiencies are the cause of over 900 diseases and 97 percent of all birth defects. Here is the sad part, all of this research was done in the mid to late 1970's, but because we are stuck with medical doctor research, and all nutritional research is stifled by the medical community and the pharmaceutical companies, you rarely hear about it."

I already addressed the lack of vitamins, minerals and nutrients in calorie dense nutritionally hollow processed food like oils, sugar, dairy, bread, cakes, fizzy drinks, sweets and chocolate. If you insist on repeating yourself so will I.

You can try and make fun of my sott account name all you like IDRGAF if you do.

Please tell me what nutrients, vitamins and minerals are not available in a whole food plant based diet?

MORE ROPE FOR YOUR NECK SIR?

Ivan8er · 2017-07-04T16:42:50Z

Rope for Sale I can only think you must be connected to the medical industry in some way. Because those people are so stuck in their thinking, they are unable to do otherwise. Dr Greger sited several studies and none of it bode very well for you arguments. You say it's impossible not to get all the nutrients from a whole food plant diet. Again your ignoring phytic acid, if your not supplementing minerals, it won't take long for your body to scavenge the from your bones and youll be wondering how did i get this disease. Also your ignoreing the fact that there is no place on planet earth that contains all the minerals needed to stay healthy. The lack of nutrients is wide spread, just because you may eat organic foods, doesn't mean there are nutrients in them. The USDA and the World Health Organization say the mineral content of the soils are being depleted. Plants require very few minerals to thrive, your assumptions about nutrient content, will lead you down a path to your next disease. The Amish in southern Indiana were poked and proded by the NIH ( National Institute of Health ) for nearly fifty years, because they had unusually high rates of Muscular Dystrophy, Cleft Lip, Cleft Palate. They had no cure, no idea what was causing it, and the worst part, they never let the Amish know anything about any progress or lack of it. It took a veterinarian with a Minor Degree in soil, to come in and discover the soil in this area was void of the trace mineral selenium. By the way, if you want to know anything about selenium, the King of selenium knowledge is Dr. Gerhard N.Schrauzer, PhD, MS, FACN, CNS. Dr Schauzer (if he's still alive ) just happens to be on the Board of Advisors of the Youngevity company.

There are soil maps of the entire United States that show the mineral content of the soils, all of them show where the soils lack certain minerals. Again I guess I have to repeat myself, there is no where on planet earth you'll find all the minerals you need to stay healthy, in one place. Supplementing is a must!

The research was done in the 1970's by Dr Joel Wallach, BS, DVM, ND his research is sitting in the Smithsonian Institute as a national Treasure, "The Diseases of Exotic Animals". His research changed Veterinary medicine, his research is why zoo animals are now healthy and reproducing, back in the 1960's a seven year old dog was considered old, now most dogs live fifteen to twenty years. Dr. Wallach has done over 17,500 autopsies on 454 species of animals, and 3000 human autopsies, ten million blood chemistries, and histopathologies lead to the discovery of cause of most diseases. Medical doctors would kill to have the cure rate of Dr. Wallach. Dr. Wallach has help most people recover from diseases medical doctors have no clue how to cure, let alone what causes them. I have one correction to make, there are approximately 300 diseases connected to calcium deficiencies, there are just over 900 diseases total. Most of our diseases are caused by nutritional deficiencies, and since minerals are the lions share, supplementation is absolutely necessary. Food alone just isn't going to cut it.

If whole foods are not the panacea you think, why do we have diseases caused by mineral deficiencies? Every body is mineral deficient and there is no way your going to get all the nutrients from food alone. If it were true why do we have anybody die from congestive heart failure (beriberi) a simple B1 (thiamine) deficiency, Rickets main cause is a vitamin D deficiency, if there were enough Vitamin D in the food alone, nobody would get rickets, yet thanks to medical doctors telling everyone to put sun screen on, or to avoid the sun, we now have a rickets problem in all countries that have western medicine as the primary care takers. How about pernicious anemia, caused by a vitamin B12 deficiency, if there were sufficient amounts in the food , nobody would be anemic. Vegetarians also have to supplement salt ( a mineral ), because there is very little in grains, vegetables, and fruit. If your a vegan, you almost assuredly have to supplement B12, because your not going to eat meat.

Why then do vegetarians and vegans get the same diseases as meat eaters? Because there aren't enough minerals in the soil, ergo, not enough minerals in the food. Funny how that works, you actually have to have minerals in the soil for the plants to absorb. I'm not talking about processed foods, just good ole home grown ( organic if you will ) foods. Your living a fantasy if you think just by eating unprocessed foods you'll get all the nutrition you need.

Vegetarians and vegans consume high amounts of indigestible fiber that irritate the bowel, and here's the real shocker, you guys have a higher rate of bowel problems. A high fiber diet was debunked last century, it's not good for you. If you can't digest the fiber, how do you expect to get any nutrition from the plant? Then there's phytic acid working against you. Remember those pesky little things, they bind to minerals and prevent absorption. You'll just be feeding the sewer.

You arguments and sources are mainly BS, I think I'll stick to eating meat and supplementing my minerals. Since I have the same chance of living just as healthy as you, why would anybody do differently? Look at poor ole Laura Dern, she went on television and cried her eyes out because SHE HAD TO GO BACK TO EATING MEAT, BECAUSE OF A NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCY CAUSED BY A VEGETARIAN DIET!

Rope for Sale · 2017-07-05T00:56:59Z

Your comments are in quotation marks I have broken down your diatribe and addressed your points one by one.

"Dr Greger sited several studies and none of it bode very well for you arguments."

I posted the Dr Greger articles and they back up what I have said and disprove what you claim. You had not studies or references backing anything you have said. Do you have mental issues or something?

"You say it's impossible not to get all the nutrients from a whole food plant diet."

Where did I say that? You are misquoting me. I said on a whole food plant based diet it is impossible not to get the recommended daily requirements of vitamins, minerals and nutrients if you are meeting the recommend calorie intake for your age, weight and activity level, unless you are eating only one or two different foods in large quantities which is not recommended. You obviously have trouble reading.

Then you go on a rant about soil and say supplementing is a must, when in fact it isn't. Tell me what you vitamins, minerals and nutrients are not available in a whole food plant based diet. I asked this in my last post but you still have failed to name one. The only vitamin we all need to supplement on a plant based diet or a diet including animal products is B12 because it is no longer available in the soil.

"Most of our diseases are caused by nutritional deficiencies, and since minerals are the lions share, supplementation is absolutely necessary. Food alone just isn't going to cut it."

Unless you eat a whole food plant based diet. That is a diet that does not contain nutritionally empty, high calorie processed foods like oils, sugar, dairy, bread, ice cream, cakes, fizzy drinks, bacon, cheese burgers, sweets and chocolate.

"Every body is mineral deficient and there is no way your going to get all the nutrients from food alone."

Yet you can find countless videos of whole food plant based vegans who do not supplement showing their blood tests on line with none of the diseases you list and no deficiencies. Tell me where are the meat eaters that can do this?

"Vegetarians also have to supplement salt ( a mineral ), because there is very little in grains, vegetables, and fruit."

Everybody needs salt whether you get it second hand in processed food or by sprinkling salt on your food.

"If your a vegan, you almost assuredly have to supplement B12, because your not going to eat meat."

I already addressed this but hear it is again because I know you don't read too well. B12 is no longer available in the soil due to intensive farming. We all need to supplement B12. A lot of meat eaters are also B12 deficient even though the animals they eat are given B12 supplements. B12 is produced industrially only through bacterial fermentation synthesis.

My B12 is 470 pmol/L The range is 170-600. What is your B12? I bet you have no idea most animal consumers rely on the supplements the animals they eat are given to get theirs and are just as likely, if not more to be B12 deficient. My B12 has actually increased. Two years ago it was 353 pmol/L. What is your B12? I bet you have no idea.

"Why then do vegetarians and vegans get the same diseases as meat eaters?"

Because not everybody has great genetics and due to other underlying health issues. Whole food plant based vegans do have the lowest instances of any disease you could care to mention. Watch Dr Gregers How Not To Die presentation where he addresses the 15 leading causes of death that claim the lives of 1.6 million Americans annually. This doesn’t have to be the case. By following Dr. Greger’s advice, all of it backed up by peer-reviewed scientific evidence, you will learn which foods to eat (whole food plant based diet) and which lifestyle changes to make to live longer. Here is the [Link] click on it and you can see it too.

"Your living a fantasy if you think just by eating unprocessed foods you'll get all the nutrition you need."

So are you saying processed food is full of nutrition? You are in fantasy land if you think so. There are more nutrients in whole food plants and cutting nutrient deficient, calorie dense processed food from the diet means you need to replace those empty calories with nutritionally dense whole plant food. If you are eating more whole food plants then you are getting more nutrients. How do manage to not ignore this?

"Vegetarians and vegans consume high amounts of indigestible fiber that irritate the bowel,"

Fibre is required by the bowel to keep it clean and healthy. Eating meat and dairy which has zero fibre causes constipation and IBS. So many people cure their IBS by eating a whole food plant based diet. Furthermore a lack of fibre in the diet can casues toxic and hormonal overload. The body uses fibre to carry toxins and excess hormones out of the body, without fibre the body just re-absorbs the toxins and excess hormones. This is why those people that go on juice fasts that involve stripping the fibre from fruits and vegetables to consume nothing else but the juice get all spotty, smelly and hyper. They are in toxic and hormone overload just like teenagers. They think they are detoxing, but the body does not detox via the skin it does so via the kidney's, liver and bowel.

What the liver detoxes [Link]
More about hormones, the liver, and fiber (Neil Barnard) [Link]
1% of toxins go through your skin [Link]
Gaining fat after fasting starvation [Link]
"Then there's phytic acid working against you. Remember those pesky little things, they bind to minerals and prevent absorption. You'll just be feeding the sewer."

Phytic acid is destroyed by soaking and cooking. For example with beans and pulses soaked. rinsed then cooked. 60% of the pytic acid is removed with soaking and rinsing. The remaining Phytic acid is destroyed by cooking, you can also spoon the pythic acid off the top of the cooking water whilst cooking to speed up the cooking process. Other methods of removing and reducing phytic acid are fermentation and grinding. There I covered phytic acid for you.

"You arguments and sources are mainly BS, I think I'll stick to eating meat and supplementing my minerals."

You do that good luck with your health as you will need it. You do know that the vitamins and minerals in supplements are bound with a chilation material. Chilation materials leach vitamins and minerals from the body don't you? Also on vitamin supplement bottles it has to say by law that you should consume a healthy balanced diet as supplements can not replace this.

"Look at poor ole Laura Dern, she went on television and cried her eyes out because SHE HAD TO GO BACK TO EATING MEAT, BECAUSE OF A NUTRITIONAL DEFICIENCY CAUSED BY A VEGETARIAN DIET!"

Anecdotal evidence does not substantiate anything, she had poor information and implementation of her diet. What nutrients can you get from meat that is not available in a whole food plant based diet? I asked this in my last post and you still have not told me.

" Since I have the same chance of living just as healthy as you, why would anybody do differently?"

Yet if you watch Dr Greger's How Not To Die presentation he proves otherwise using scientific evidence. he addresses the 15 leading causes of death that claim the lives of 1.6 million Americans annually. This doesn’t have to be the case. By following Dr. Greger’s advice, all of it backed up by peer-reviewed scientific evidence, you will learn which foods to eat (whole food plant based diet) and which lifestyle changes to make to live longer. Here is the [Link] You have no scientific studies or references backing up anything you have said I would say that it is you that is full of BS and lots of it.

Ivan8er · 2017-07-05T02:45:59Z

Rope for Sale Fiber is required to keep the bowel clean? What a load of crap, pun intended. Again, don't tell the Inuit Alaskans, at least the one that follow a traditional diet. They don't eat fiber, or fruits, or vegetables. Seal blubber, fatty fish, maybe a whale or two. You may remember I told you, they eat nothing but fatty meats. Here's a shocker, they don't get diabetes. Now if we apply your absolutely worthless logic (which by the way, is nothing more than medical doctor logic), everyone that eats "THE WRONG FATS" should get diabetes eventually. I'm 61, do you have a prediction when I'll get diabetes? As you claim, fat blocks insulin. On the subject of Laura Dern, how would you even know what she ate to implement her diet wrong? I'm guessing unless you lived with her there is no way you could know. So that would put you in the class of arrogant I THINK I KNOW IT ALL. Thanks to Dr. Wallach, I will never get diabetes, because i consume the nutrients required to keep it from happening. Even if I did get diabetes, Thanks to Dr. Wallach, I know how to correct it. I never claimed I eat processed foods, so I don't know where you got that from, I can only assume your prejudice about meat eaters includes processed foods. I've heard of hormone imbalance, never hormone overload. I can't find hormone overload in any medical literature. Maybe your just suffering from vegetarian overload, and it's affected your brain, because only on your side of the isle ( so to speak ) have I ever heard ovf hormone over load. It's been fun wasting your time, I have to go work on my diabetes, I have a craving for some bacon and eggs.

Rope for Sale · 2017-07-06T20:57:36Z

Ivan8er The only thing I can find on Laura Dern and her going back to eating meat is a single line on this [Link] page that states,

"She was a vegetarian for six years, until the diet made her anemic."

Once again you fail to understand the difference between a whole food plant based diet and a vegetarian. All this proves is that dairy and eggs make you ill. Leafy greens, broccoli, nuts, beans etc. etc. Here is a video explaining what the best sources of iron are.

Will Vegan Diet Cause Iron Deficiency? [Link] Note it says vegan not vegetarian. I'm not surprised vegetarians get sick.

Rope for Sale · 2017-07-05T05:44:56Z

The Inuit are lucky to live beyond 60.

Canadian Inuit live 10 years less:[Link]
During the 1970s, 2 Danish investigators, Bang and Dyerberg, on being informed that the Greenland Eskimos had a low prevalence of coronary artery disease (CAD) set out to study the diet of this population. Bang and Dyerberg described the “Eskimo diet” as consisting of large amounts of seal and whale blubber (ie, fats of animal origin) and suggested that this diet was a key factor in the alleged low incidence of CAD. This was the beginning of a proliferation of studies that focused on the cardioprotective effects of the “Eskimo diet.” In view of data, which accumulated on this topic during the past 40 years, we conducted a review of published literature to examine whether mortality and morbidity due to CAD are indeed lower in Eskimo/Inuit populations compared with their Caucasian counterparts. Most studies found that the Greenland Eskimos and the Canadian and Alaskan Inuit have CAD as often as the non-Eskimo populations. Notably, Bang and Dyerberg's studies from the 1970s did not investigate the prevalence of CAD in this population; however, their reports are still routinely cited as evidence for the cardioprotective effect of the “Eskimo diet.” We discuss the possible motives leading to the misinterpretation of these seminal studies.http://www.onlinecjc.ca/article/S0828-282X(14)00237-2/abstract

The inuit also have lower bone density. Lower bone density in Inuit:[Link]
High mercury levels in Inuit due to fish diet. [Link]
"They don't eat fiber, or fruits, or vegetables. Seal blubber, fatty fish, maybe a whale or two. You may remember I told you, they eat nothing but fatty meats. Here's a shocker, they don't get diabetes"

More BS you just make this up and don't even fact check do you.

The age-standardized prevalences of diabetes and IGT were 10.8 and 9.4% among men and 8.8 and 14.1% among women, respectively. Of those with diabetes, 70% had not been previously diagnosed. Significant risk factors for diabetes were family history of diabetes, age, BMI, and high alcohol consumption, whereas frequent intake of fresh fruit and seal meat were inversely associated with diabetic status. Age, BMI, family history of diabetes, sedentary lifestyle, and place of residence were significant predictors of IGT. The prevalence of diabetes is high among the Inuit of Greenland. Heredity was a major factor, while obesity and diet were important environmental factors. The high proportion of unknown cases suggests a need for increased diabetes awareness in Greenland. [Link]
See the prevalence of diabetes is high among the Inuit of Greenland who eat the same diet as the Alaskan Inuit.

"I'm 61, do you have a prediction when I'll get diabetes?"

You are probably pre-diabetic or borderline already maybe you should get your blood tested? My HbA1c is 30mmol/mol whats yours? According to your logic I should be diabetic when will I get diabetes? I'm 42.

"As you claim, fat blocks insulin." It is a contributing factor to blood sugar spikes as is explained by Neal Barnard, M.D.[Link]
Explanation of Vegan Diabetes Rates (68% less): [Link] Adventist Health Study-2 showed vegans to have a 68% lower rate of diabetes than non-vegetarians.

"On the subject of Laura Dern, how would you even know what she ate to implement her diet wrong? I'm guessing unless you lived with her there is no way you could know. So that would put you in the class of arrogant I THINK I KNOW IT ALL."

I don't know much about Laura Dern but I am going to find out and post it in my next post. By the way I research what I type and I back it up with scientific evidence and provide links to where I have got that evidence. You seem ignorant of this concept maybe it is you who is and ARROGANT KNOW IT ALL that just spouts BS based on what he heard or what he thinks is right.

"I never claimed I eat processed foods, so I don't know where you got that from, I can only assume your prejudice about meat eaters includes processed foods"

I never claimed you did eat processed food so I don't know where you got that from. I can only assume all this ranting and unsubstantiated BS you spew forward is due to your prejudice towards non- animal corpse eaters. It was evident in your first comment to divide by zero which was,

"your wasting your time talking to Rope For Sale, this person is obviously a tree hugging, rock licker, look no farther than the ANIMAL FATS CAUSE TOO MUCH DAMAGE TO THE ENVIRONMENT. I'm fairly certain this person is a vegan, and vegans already know everything, so nothing you say will change their minds."

"I've heard of hormone imbalance, never hormone overload. I can't find hormone overload in any medical literature."

Because your such a wide reader of medical literature aren't you. It's evident in all the studies you link. Here is an extract from a dictionary for you.

Overload nounˈəʊvələʊd/ 1 .an excessive amount of something."an overload of stress"synonyms:excess, overabundance, superabundance, profusion, glut, surfeit, surplus, superfluity, more than enough, too many, too much;

I'm so sorry if my choice of words did not suit your stringent requirement.

Here are the two articles I already posted above that you clearly ignored on the liver, fibre and how it affects hormone balance (HAPPY?)

More about hormones, the liver, and fiber (Neil Barnard) [Link]
What the liver detoxes [Link]
"It's been fun wasting your time, I have to go work on my diabetes, I have a craving for some bacon and eggs."

Not at all I love using scientific proof to destroy ignorant old farts that think they know it all. I Have put a lot of time into researching what I type, I know exactly where to go for the information and it is no chore.

Enjoy your heart attack!

Ivan8er · 2017-07-07T04:15:32Z

Rope for Sale Soap On A Rope, give it up! Alaskan Inuits that follow a traditional diet, DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL! Then inject the Canadian and Greenland Inuits, so the studies you cite are as worthless as your advice about diet. Again, you must be blindly stupid. Did you even read the study you cited about the Greenland Inuits. They westernized their diets, that's why the have so many diseases.

Again, the Alaskan Inuits that eat a traditional diet, have far few problems. The ones you cited have all westernized their diets. So you just listed a bunch of studies that do not apply to the Alaskan Inuits that eat NOTHING BUT A TRADITIONAL DIET. NO ALCOHOL, FRUITS VEGETABLES, NO FIBER, NOTHING, EXCEPT FATTY MEATS. GET IT? Every study you can come up with, will include the Inuits that have westernized their diets.

Your definition reference of overload proves nothing. When medical doctors can't figure out what the cause of a disease is, they have to come up with something so they don't look stupid, so they label it, call it a name. Your example of over load comes right out of Webster, or pick any dictionary. As for hormone overload, the NIH, that would be the National Institute of Health, the talk about hormone imbalances, but I can;t find HORMONE OVERLOAD. I think your trying to BS me.

At this point I'm convinced you a doctor of some sort, or connected to some medical group. Which means your thinking about the cause of diseases is like having tunnel vision. You can't deviate from your training, and any research you do is tainted by your bias. Which means you don't now squat about the cause of most diseases.

As for the bacon, there you go making assumptions again. You must not get out much, there are numerous sources of unprocessed meats, and I don't eat processed meats.

I'm going to take a guess, since your obsessed with your health, and everybody else s for that matter, I'll bet you exercise a lot. Since you never know if the food your eating has the mineral content needed to keep you healthy, oh wait.... I forgot, your a know it all, and you actually believe the food your eating, is the so called nutrient dense food.

Any way, when you exercise, you sweat right? So when you sweat, you sweat out minerals. Minerals you can't afford to lose. Since you don't supplement, when you sweat out enough selenium, you'll be the one having a heart attack. I go back to the medical doctors, when a young high school kid has a heart attack on the football field or on the basketball court, the medical doctors have no clue What caused it. The and after the autopsy results come out, and the results are inconclusive.

Your average every day cardiomyopathy heart attack is caused by a selenium deficiency, medical doctors don't know this because they never, and I do mean never, look at nutritional deficiencies as a cause of any disease. I know this because Dr. Wallach has proved it through many years of research.

Jim Fixx started the running craze, he died of a cardiomyopathy heart attack at the ripe old age of 52. He didn't want to supplement, because as he said, " I didn't want to muddy the waters". He wanted to prove that exercise alone, would extend his life and he would live to be 100.

Reggie Lewis, heart attack on the basketball court. A dream team of four cardiologist was quickly put together, and they vowed to save him. Nope. In fact, two of the cardiologists were runners, they are both dead. One around 48 and the other about 55.

There is not a professional athlete that has live to 100 years or more, because they sweat out minerals, and that accelerates them down the disease highway.

If you have osteoporosis, your medical doctor will give you a drug that puts the Osteoclast cells to sleep (osteoclast cells chew up old bone), osteoblast cell make new bone. Eventually your left with a lot of old bone, and your more susceptible to bone fracture. Why didn't the make a drug that speeds up the making of new bone? They can't, because that requires raw materials like calcium, and goes against everything these guys are about. Because nutritional supplements have never cured anything, right. Their dangerous,... they just give you expensive pee.

If you ever going for a surgery, they will tell you to stop taking vitamin E and fish oil caps, because they thin your blood. But if you go to your doctor, and you need to thin your blood, what do the give you? Rat Poison, That's right folks, Warfarin is rat poison, or they'll give you one of the more modern blood thinners, but it might as well be rat poison.

Your average medical doctor, only lives to about 59 years old. This is why you never consult an MD about health, because they obviously don't know anything about staying healthy. Your average beer drinking, cigarette smoking couch potato lives longer than that.

Rope, since your a know it all, you probably know what a Qualified Health Claim is. For those that don't, it's when you bring truck loads of research to the FDA and prove that certain supplements or herbs actually prevent diseases. There are very few qualified health claims currently on file at the FDA, Dr. Wallach owns three of them. This is no small feat, the FDA doesn't like none drug preventative medicine. The FDA tried to remove his first qualified health claim, so Dr Wallach had to suit them three times to make it stick.

Since your so stuck on diabetes, it doesn't matter if your an elephant, alligator, or humming bird, they all can get diabetes. I know this can happen, because Dr. Joel Wallach did the research on those very animals, and proved it. If you can ( I know you can't, but I'm sure you'll come up with some BS to explain) please explain how they get diabetes, because except for the alligator, the other two aren't eating the wrong fats.

I think you may have that rope wrapped around your neck, if you don't know, you need to breath to survive, and you have to get a life. I think you said your 42, I'm an old fart as you put it, my life is about to end any day, because I love bacon and I'll never quit eating it. I'd say I'd love to keep in touch to compare our health as we age, but I like to simplify my life, and you're a pain in the back side. Later.

Rope for Sale · 2017-07-12T10:52:56Z

Ivan8er "Alaskan Inuits that follow a traditional diet, DON'T DRINK ALCOHOL! Then inject the Canadian and Greenland Inuits, so the studies you cite are as worthless as your advice about diet. Again, you must be blindly stupid. Did you even read the study you cited about the Greenland Inuits. They westernized their diets, that's why the have so many diseases."

Diabetes mellitus and impaired fasting glucose in Alaska Eskimos: the Genetics of Coronary Artery Disease in Alaska Natives (GOCADAN) study. [Link]
From the above study 'Because our diabetes estimates do not rely on hospital or outpatient records, and because we have a fasting blood draw as well as questionnaire information, we were able to identify 13 cases of undiagnosed as well as 27 cases of previously diagnosed diabetes. The findings of undiagnosed cases of diabetes in GOCADAN is consistent with national estimates as well as with results from both the Alaska–Siberia Project and the 1988 study from Schraer and co-workers that identified one undiagnosed case of diabetes for every diagnosed case of diabetes among Alaska Natives [4, 6, 19]. Therefore the earliest estimates of the extent of diabetes in Native Alaskan populations are likely to be underestimates, perhaps as much as 50%.'

So you can see from this that yes they did get diabetes and early tests reported diabetes type 2 as being low due to incomplete testing of Alaskan Inuits. Yes diabetes is occurring more often because they are adopting standard western diets. They still had more diabetes than the Seventh Day Evangelists who ate no animal products and consumed a whole foods plant based diet.

"Again, the Alaskan Inuits that eat a traditional diet, have far few problems. The ones you cited have all westernized their diets. So you just listed a bunch of studies that do not apply to the Alaskan Inuits that eat NOTHING BUT A TRADITIONAL DIET. NO ALCOHOL, FRUITS VEGETABLES, NO FIBER, NOTHING, EXCEPT FATTY MEATS. GET IT? Every study you can come up with, will include the Inuits that have westernized their diets."

Not this one this one goes back to 1973. If you look at this study Alaska Native Mortality Rates and Trends [Link] You will see that in table 1 [Link] Alaskan Natives (AN) do have lower diabetes incidences than U.S. white residents (USW), and Alaska white residents (AKW) but only slightly lower and if you look at their incidences of death from heart disease, atherosclerosis, stroke (cerebrovascular disease) and all other causes of death their mortality rate is much higher, so you could say that maybe they are dying of other diseases before their diabetes fully develops.

I'm sure you will bring up the changing of their diet to a Standard Western Diet is the cause so if you look at table 3 [Link] you can see that heart disease was more prevalent in 1973 when they were eating their native diet of high fat than in 2003. Heart disease decreased as diabetes increased over the years. You can also see from table 3 that the AN all-cause mortality rate was 40% higher (rate ratio [RR]=1.4) than the rate for both the USW and AKW populations. I would hardly put the Alaskan Native forward as poster child for goo health as a result of dietary choices. Most of their disease related deaths have decreased over the years. Is this because they switched away from their native diet?

"Your definition reference of overload proves nothing. When medical doctors can't figure out what the cause of a disease is, they have to come up with something so they don't look stupid, so they label it, call it a name. Your example of over load comes right out of Webster, or pick any dictionary. As for hormone overload, the NIH, that would be the National Institute of Health, the talk about hormone imbalances, but I can;t find HORMONE OVERLOAD. I think your trying to BS me."

I'm sorry that my choice of nomenclature triggered you so well. Yes I did get that definition from a dictionary, was I not allowed to or supposed to? I noticed that you concentrated on my word choice rather than my point of argument which is a sure fire indicator that you are wrong. If you want the medical term for the re-circulation of hormones, chemicals and cholesterol it is enterohepatic circulation.

"At this point I'm convinced you a doctor of some sort, or connected to some medical group. Which means your thinking about the cause of diseases is like having tunnel vision. You can't deviate from your training, and any research you do is tainted by your bias. Which means you don't now squat about the cause of most diseases."

Wrong I'm not a doctor, nor am I connected to any medical group. I ate what I thought was a healthy diet, that included eggs, dairy, red meat, processed meat (bacon) and vegetables. I have an active job.

I used to take a multivitamin and cod liver oil.

I started getting sick, fluid round my ankles, small wounds would appear on my lower legs that took ages to heal and invariably they got bigger and began appearing more and more.

I started getting erectile dysfunction, the penile artery is the smallest artery in the body and the first to start clogging with arterial plaque from cholesterol.

I began falling asleep immediately after eating. a symptom of diabetes.

I had joint pain that got progressively worse from when it started in my mid 20s.

I started putting on more and more weight and unable to loose it. I always weighed around 78KG but ended up at 95KG before I decided enough was enough at the age of 37.

I did some research and dropped all animal products out of my diet and lost 20KG in 2 months. My skin healed, I stopped crashing after eating, my erectile dysfunction disappeared (I'm 19 again). I have more energy and my joint pains vanished all together. My eyes also cleared up.

So tell me again how I have tunnel vision and I'm unable to look at things objectively. I had a number of issues that I cured just by viewing my own habits objectively, can you say the same?

"As for the bacon, there you go making assumptions again. You must not get out much, there are numerous sources of unprocessed meats, and I don't eat processed meats."

'Processed meat refers to meat that has been transformed through salting, curing, fermentation, smoking, or other processes to enhance flavour or improve preservation. Most processed meats contain pork or beef, but processed meats may also contain other red meats, poultry, offal, or meat by-products such as blood.Examples of processed meat include hot dogs (frankfurters), ham, sausages, corned beef, and biltong or beef jerky as well as canned meat and meat-based preparations and sauces.' It has been listed as a group one carcinogen by the World Health Organistion. [Link]
'Twenty-two experts from 10 countries reviewed more than 800 studies to reach their conclusions. They found that eating 50 grams of processed meat every day increased the risk of colorectal cancer by 18%. That’s the equivalent of about 4 strips of bacon or 1 hot dog. For red meat, there was evidence of increased risk of colorectal, pancreatic, and prostate cancer.'

You eat bacon but don't eat processed meat. Right!

"Your average every day cardiomyopathy heart attack is caused by a selenium deficiency, medical doctors don't know this because they never, and I do mean never, look at nutritional deficiencies as a cause of any disease."

Yet if you eat a whole food plant based diet you will never have a selenium deficiency. Here is a list of some dietary sources of selenium;

Chickpeas

Brazil nuts

Sesame seeds

Garlic

Pumpkin seeds

Lima beans

Pinto beans

Mushrooms

Chia seeds

Broccoli

Cabbage

Spinach

Walnuts

The list is not complete.

Then you go on a rant about selenium and exercise. I already debunked you selenium claim. I exercise for about 90 minutes 3 to 4 times a week, anymore than that is of no great benefit and I think running marathons and the likes are unhealthy due to the amount of stress it puts on your body, so your ranting about Jim Fixx (coronary heart disease is what killed him, he was a meat eater) is just more blah blah blah. "Oh look at this one guy that ran a lot who had a heart attack" So what?

"If you have osteoporosis, your medical doctor will give you a drug that puts the Osteoclast cells to sleep (osteoclast cells chew up old bone), osteoblast cell make new bone. Eventually your left with a lot of old bone, and your more susceptible to bone fracture. Why didn't the make a drug that speeds up the making of new bone? They can't, because that requires raw materials like calcium, and goes against everything these guys are about. Because nutritional supplements have never cured anything, right. Their dangerous,... they just give you expensive pee."

So I'm thinking that you have osteoporosis now. Are you aware that animal products contain proteins that are harder for the stomach to break down than plant proteins?

'Animal proteins also have a higher concentration of sulphur containing amino acids that get metabolized to acid-generating metabolites. As a result, a slightly lower physiological pH must be corrected and buffers like calcium are used to attenuate these adverse acid effects–to the disadvantage of the host.'[Link]
In other words your body uses it's calcium stores to neutralise these acids and raise the bodies PH. Result Osteoporosis. Look at all the studies I linked previously, those populations that consumed the lowest amounts of animal products had the lowest instances of osteoporosis and bone fracture.

Eat a whole food plant based diet and you don't need the supplements. How on earth did man manage to evolve over the years without supplements? By eating a plants and vegetables. And before you launch into a "meat made us clever and cholesterol grew our brains" rant, if that was the case there wouldn't be a human race the planet would be dominated by lions and tigers.

By the way I'm not a humming bird, elephant or alligator, I'm human that is why I only look at human based studies, animal physiology and dietary need is completely different from humans.

Ask yourself why are most athletes turning to a whole food plant based diet rather than a high fat diet. Then think about what the human body needs to perform at it's optimum. I'm sure the athletes will always be more than one step ahead of you.

Remember bacon = processed meat.

More rope to give your neck a good stretch?

Rope for Sale · 2017-07-05T05:53:56Z

" I never claimed I eat processed foods, so I don't know where you got that from"

" have a craving for some bacon and eggs."

Researchers from the Harvard School of Public Health found in 2010 that eating processed meats (such as bacon) that are preserved by smoking, curing or salting, or with the addition of chemical preservatives, was associated with an increased risk of both heart disease and diabetes. [Link]
Bacon processed meat. The Irony. The Ignorance. LOL!

According to the text of the article the meteor was seen streaking across the sky above Puerto Rico in the early morning hours on December 6. So...

Watchit

gator codis reventlov... highschool bullies never bothered me, especially almost 5 decades later :P keep trying to hide yer unresolved ego 💩💩💩...

LindaMay

Democracy died the day they invented it.

JTF Truth

receptive machines with an addiction to fiction where the only contamination is between their own ears, numbering Billions. . ;)

Shangri

Would make a good detention center for vaxx 'deniers'

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