The U.S. Air Force announced recently that due to lack of funding it's shutting down a key part of its Space Surveillance Network... this at a time when fireball/meteor sightings are on the rise. While there is allegedly no budget left to keep an eye on the skies, the Obama administration is sending billions in 'military aid' to countries that are "important to U.S. interests," not least Egypt, where civil war appears imminent.

This discrepancy between 'waging peace' and wilfully ignoring the cosmic elephant in the living room is something no one but and SOTT Talk Radio is apparently willing to talk about. The historical reality of cataclysms brought on by 'fire in the sky' is daily merging with present reality as mysterious explosions, sonic booms, unexplained fires and other 'high strangeness' continue to proliferate across the planet.

Running Time: 02:08:00

Download: MP3

Here's the transcript:

Joe: Hi and welcome to another SOTT Talk Radio. It is August 18th, 2013. I'm Joe Quinn and with me is: Niall Bradley.

Niall: Hello listeners.

Joe: And Pierre Lescaudron.

Pierre: Hello.

Joe: So this week we were scheduled to have Francesco Carotta on the show. He is the author of a book we have been promoting of late, and reading as well, among other books on the topic. A book titled: Jesus Was Caesar. We kind of stumbled across this very interesting hypothesis, or theory, which seems to have a lot of basis to it; a lot of evidence to support it. We've done a couple of shows on it so far and we wanted to have Francesco come on this week, initially he seemed agreeable to the idea but then he declined and left us a bit puzzled as to why. He claimed he had a bit of a cold and that it wasn't clearing up in time but there seemed to be something else about it.

We think his book is very well worth the read and the information is very important, among other books. There are other books out there on the topic but it seems - our theory might be something along the lines of - Mr. Carotta, is still under what we call, the illusion of gaining some kind of acceptance among mainstream academia for this idea, that he has written and researched for many years, about Jesus being Caesar. We think it is an illusion, basically, because if you read about the book, it is being ignored by mainstream academia and mainstream historians. Anybody who comes out with such a shocking and revolutionary idea is obviously going to be dismissed or ignored or actively suppressed by mainstream academia and the powers-that-be, for example. So maybe Mr. Carotta isn't aware of the extent of that. Although the evidence surely must be in his face because he can barely get any reviews for his book that has been out for twenty years. Very few people, if any, have actually given any kind of a serious review; so it's been ignored.

We tried to give it some attention but, for whatever reason, he decided not to, unfortunately. That doesn't mean we don't think his book is any good, as we've said, so the short answer is that we won't have him on this week or any other week, so we are going to have another episode of: 'All and Everything', which is where we discuss various different topics that we believe are important to discuss; things that have come up in the past week or weeks. We're just going to go ahead with some of those topics right now, all in under five minutes. A run down by Niall and Pierre while I sit here and listen {laughter}.

Actually, there is one story that just grabbed my attention recently, today or yesterday, it was in some online mainstream newspaper. It's basically a story about a guy, a reporter for a newspaper, who flew from Zurich Airport in Switzerland and he passed through security and on the other side of security he was browsing around shops and he saw a Swiss Army Knife shop. He went in there and he bought several Swiss Army knives with six centimeter long blades.

Niall: Why not? When in Rome...

Joe: Well, he made a story out of it in the newspaper saying that it was, basically, kind of strange given all of the airport security since 9/11 and stuff. They claim that the 19 hijackers, or some of them anyway - it is generally believed that they used box cutters or knives of some description to hijack these planes; at least in some of the planes it was their primary weapon. Then after 9/11 and after that whole story, you had this ridiculous clamp down on what people could and couldn't take onto airplanes and the whole draconian legislation passed by the TSA in America, in terms of airport security. That point where breast milk couldn't be taken by mothers onto airplanes and still can't be taken onto airplanes; kids having their toy guns taken off of them before they get on the plane; a toy plastic gun because it was threatening. I think there was a story a couple of weeks ago about some kid in the UK, traveling with his parents, had his plastic toy gun taken off him because it was threatening. And yet in that context, I suppose that story stands out. He flew from Zurich to the UK with this knife - he bought several - and he showed pictures of himself while on the plane brandishing them.

It's interesting as a highlight of just how ridiculous the situation has become.

Pierre: I can confirm this because I experienced two anecdotes along this line: I took a plane, in France, from Toulouse to Lyon and I had a pair of small scissors with - if I remember correctly - six centimeter long blades, a bit more than two inches. The law says if the blade is more than two inches, it's too dangerous, so they took my scissors.

Niall: Did they measure it before hand?

Pierre: Yeah, they measured it in front of me. It was like one centimeter too long. So I went back to Toulouse Airport, the day after, to pick up my scissors and they said it had been destroyed because they destroy what they seize. But the funny part is the second anecdote: so again, I take the plane for a flight, I don't remember the destination but whatever, I put my backpack in the x-ray machine and they find my Leatherman Wave, this kind of Swiss knife. It's funny because I thought I lost it for years. It was actually between the mat on the back and the back per se. It had slipped in there. "Oh, my Leatherman, great you've found it, thank you!"

Joe: And then they destroyed it?

Pierre: Hang on. The lady starts to look at it and I remember the scissor story so I say: "Oh, don't worry, it's just a pair of pliers". And then I start to open it because the first thing that you see with this Leatherman is pliers. "You see its pliers and with this pliers you have these dents here and you can cut with pliers. Isn't it nice pliers?" Voluntarily, I was overwhelming her and she says "Okay, go away" and I left with my Leatherman which includes four or five blades, four blades that are about seven centimeters long - so it shows you how inefficient they are. We all know their purpose is not to provide safety for human beings.

Joe: No, that's ridiculous.

Niall: But, even knowing that, I can go into an airport aware of what's coming up, okay, give myself time, make sure I take off my belt or whatever is necessary to get through; it still gets to you. You can't help but wonder if the idea, the goal, is to stress you out.

Pierre: Preconditioning is part of it and also they try to prime you, gradually, to make you accept, step by step, things that are not acceptable. It's like the boiling frog; step by step you give away a bit more of your freedom, a bit more of your dignity and in the end you turn back and you realize you're naked. You have no more dignity; you have no more rights; you have no more freedom and you gave everything away.

Joe: Even the idea that they destroy them is ridiculous. Members in our chat room asked "how do you destroy a pair of scissors?"' but they do destroy them. It's ridiculous, that act of destroying them is to show that these are very dangerous items and they may be put beyond human use, type of thing, even though, very often, they are just household items, so it's just ridiculous. If there was any sanity they would take those items - okay it's bad enough that they don't give them back to you, they can't go like you did Pierre and ask for them back the next day or whatever, but at the very least they could give them to charity or sell them or have them melted down and give the money to charity or something. A little bit of sanity anywhere but no they have to be destroyed.

There's a story my mother told me where she went to an airport and a woman had taken a pair of scissors, I think, of hers that she had in her bag and she was taking down to the house in another country. She wanted to go down there and she took the liberty because there was a person that she liked. A man spotted them in the airport, took them off her and my mother couldn't hold her tone, basically, and said to him "You know, I bet your wife is going to get some good use out of those tonight" implying that he was going to be taking them and profiting.

Niall: The spoils of war.

Joe: Yeah, exactly. This is booty; a benefit in kind.

Niall: It's probably in their contract somewhere.

Pierre: Taking scissors and knives.

Joe: So he motioned her to come over and took her over to somewhere close by and there was a metal crushing machine that they had on site. He dropped them in to show her that they crushed and destroyed them.

Pierre: You know, when I went to get my scissors back they told me "we keep the scissor items only for twenty-four hours." But it's ridiculous because it is an airport. People are traveling and usually you are not back to the initial point within twenty-four hours.

Joe: So you can't claim them within twenty-four hours.

Pierre: It's ridiculous.

Joe: But the thing that brought to mind for me, as well, was the whole story of 9/11 and the claim that box cutters were used - because a lot of people, I think, today, somehow, - it's kind of like the whole weapons of mass destruction and Saddam having some involvement. That a lot of people believe that Saddam had some kind of involvement in 9/11 and that he was responsible and that there were weapons of mass destruction found in Iraq. These ideas have somehow managed to get out, you know how, but they managed to get these totally false ideas out into the public consciousness and people run with them and it becomes established history. There's still something like 50% of Americans who when asked said that Saddam had involvement in 9/11. Nobody ever said that but somehow it got out there. It was just a link between 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq. There must be a reason. The idea of the box cutters seems to be fairly wide spread - that they used box cutters to overtake these planes, which is ridiculous enough in itself. The fact is that there was only one reference made to there being box cutters on any of the four flights, on 9/11 and that was on flight 77, that allegedly hit the Pentagon. Obviously it didn't. That report came from Ted Olson who is the former Attorney General of the United States and the guy who put Bush in power in 2000, at the time he was a Supreme Court judge.

Niall: In Florida.

Joe: He made the decision. He was one of the few who arbitrated and said, basically, "Well, yeah we will give it to Bush".

Niall: It was a 4-3 vote wasn't it?

Joe: Yeah, I think so. He was the deciding vote. Anyway, he was then named Attorney General by Bush. His wife then was on, allegedly, was on flight 77.

Pierre: Barbara Olsen.

Joe: Yeah, Barbara Olsen and she was a FOX news conservative pundit and she, allegedly, according to Ted Olsen, called him. This is how she was the one who said they had box cutters. He went back and forth, a few different times in different interviews afterwards, saying that she either called him from a satellite or seat back phone in the plane. A week later he told another reporter in another interview that she called from her cell phone. He went back and forth a few different times and then he just shut up about it, but someone asked American Airlines and they said no we don't have any seat back phones in those planes, so he was lying when he said that. It turns out he was also lying because, as part of the 9/11 Commission Report, the FBI tracked any cell phone communications coming from that plane and there was only one but it had a total of zero seconds, so it basically didn't connect and it was a call from someone to the Justice Department but it did not connect. Which is obvious because cell phones don't connect when flying at 500 miles per hour.

Pierre: It can connect very quickly to one emitter antenna but since the plane goes really fast it will disconnect from the first antenna and try to connect to a second antenna and a third one along the path, so it keeps getting disconnected from one antenna to another.

Joe: So it was possible what the FBI said that no cell phone connections were made, although there was one attempt to the Justice Department. Ted Olsen had this big story about how he talked to his wife and she told him all this information, so he blatantly made that up. He lied about that and spread this idea of box cutters. He did not talk to anyone. No one called him from flight 77 but that is the source for this box cutter story. It's false, it's a fabrication, it never happened. His statement is false and it's the source of the box cutter story. That is the kind of linkage to the story today because obviously box cutters and knives on planes; anything can be used. There was one report, somewhere in the aftermath, that they actually used razor blades attached with Scotch tape to credit cards. Believe it or not that is what they actually said, that they had used razor blades attached to credit cards.

I suppose this was, in a way, designed to suggest just how dangerous travelling on airplanes is and therefore you can't have toy guns, any kind of knives, any weapons, anything sharp at all. You need your finger nails cut because if your finger nails are too long you might be able to overtake an airplane.

Pierre: Liquids are forbidden too, of more than 100 milliliters.

Joe: Yeah, because you can make a bomb afterwards.

Pierre: A water bomb, a soda bomb.

Niall: That came later. That came on the basis of the shoe bombing. What was his name again?

Joe: Richard Reid.

Niall: Richard Reid, yes; a British guy. I mean that is a whole weird story in itself. Now you can only carry 100 milliliters of shampoo, toothpaste, blah, blah, blah.

Joe: That's because you could theoretically take household ingredients...

Niall: Put them together and make a bomb.

Joe: ...put them together and go into the toilet and make a bomb and blow up the plane. That's how ridiculous it is and no one seems to care that it's absolutely ridiculous and goes against all notions of sanity or rationality and even reality, that it would be possible for anybody to make a bomb that would be big enough. People have even done reports on it where they said: "Okay, throw me out some ideas of what you're claiming these would be terrorists could do on our planes with household ingredients" and somebody said: "well, you can take this ingredient from the kitchen and this ingredient and this ingredient" and the conclusion was that if somebody tried to do that in an airplane toilet, the worst damage they would do is probably burn themselves if they tried to ignite it. It might blow in their face a little bit but certainly it wouldn't be anything that would threaten the plane, so none of it is based on any kind of reality, yet it is pushed through. Why? Is it just pure hysteria or is there an agenda behind it? Like you guys were just talking about, it's slowly corralling people psychologically into this state of fear of what they can and cannot do, that is always dictated by authorities and they always have to watch themselves.

Pierre: Sometimes it is multifactorial. Sometimes a decision, a rule serves several purposes. There is this humiliation factor, this stripping away of freedom. Interestingly, airports are about travel, communication, meeting people; so it can also be perceived as a way to reduce social interaction because we know the elites fear a few things. One of the things they fear is united people; people who communicate; people who exchange views; people who help each other. They would be very happy with an individualistic society where every citizen is in a box. They cannot plan anything; they cannot exchange any information; they cannot help; they cannot be helped and so they are total slaves of the elites.

Joe: Absolutely.

Niall: It's fear. That seed of suspicion can grow. It's going to be more pronounced at an airport; don't look at anyone in the eye, don't talk to a stranger but then you leave there and are back with friends and company but that suspicion, it's not really that it's intended, that they can foresee the consequences of it but in some way, whatever way, this is the result that it has on normal people. It takes as a seed and grows and manifests in other ways. Look how one little thing, one little piece of disinformation about a box cutter has become a standard. It's almost like the hallmark of 9/11. 'Nineteen Arab terrorists with box cutters'; it's become the story of the entire event.

Joe: That's all they have really depended on because there is no other hard evidence or any other evidence for there being hijackers; them having guns or bombs is equally spurious. If you look at the whole 9/11 Commission Report and the official story of 9/11, there is no basis to the official story. There is none whatsoever apart from the fact that planes did crash into the World Trade Center towers. That's what it hangs on. Nobody can argue with that because there is so much video footage of it actually happening, so then when you present a narrative afterwards, people just go with it. It can't be proven but it can't be disproven. That's what they rely on. If I say: "well where is your evidence that there were 19 hijackers in those planes", they turn around and basically say "well where is your evidence that there wasn't?" The bottom line is that 9/11 happened and we have to: 'react without thinking, get emotional'.

Pierre: And you make people emotional with such shocking images. Just having the planes hitting the towers and the towers collapsing is enough to hysterisize the population to a degree where any objective reasoning is cancelled, so basically, you can feed the masses with whatever scenario you want, even the most inconsistent ones.

Joe: It was a giant slap in the face to all of America; an unprovoked, sudden, unexpected slap. As if someone, out of nowhere, aggressed the entire American population at once. That kind of emotional reaction you would get from someone if they were suddenly slapped unexpectedly; you got that 200 million fold. That emotional reaction; that was the political capital that was used to launch wars.

Pierre: Remember we were talking about the resonance between individuals for the fear factor, we may have to take into account: limbic resonance. You have 300 million people who react in a similar way; fear, anger; these kinds of emotional [triggers] and at the same time, you might have a resonance factor. Every citizen who is meeting with others has a synergistic effect. It must be overwhelming.

Niall: It was extraordinarily successful in that sense. In terms of what actually took place and in terms of the numbers actually killed, compared with other actual warfare or numbers of accidents per year and so on, if you would just compare statistically, it was a relatively minor affair even for the US.

Joe: But it was spectacular.

Pierre: The symbolic dimension the emotional dimension was very, very strong.

Joe: A chat room member Michael James made a good point. He said that: "Isn't that what they do in the MKULTRA program? They shock the candidate to a level of terror and then implant programming". It's not unreasonable to suggest that it was...

Niall: And we know for sure that it was done intentionally. That was the aim in doing that.

Joe: Absolutely, it's trauma.

Niall: Shock in order to create something new.

Joe: Yeah, so absolutely right Michael. It's not unreasonable or implausible; the theory that what 9/11 would produce in the American population, was in some way linked back to research that was done on individuals under MKULTRA. The understanding of human psychology, you explore it, you experiment in all these horrible ways, as we have documented in previous shows. Then you use that understanding and expand it out to the entire population and say: "We can do this all at once. Let's not do it on just one person, let's do it on millions."

Niall: That answers the question that I had: what happened after they closed down those programs? Well, it went above street from underground, it went nationwide and worldwide.

Pierre: I was wondering about the author we interviewed, Colin Ross and his colleague, they were not very clear about that, although they alleged that yeah there were new developments after the 50's, 60's, and 70's programs but they didn't have very consistent data to back their hypothesis. I'm wondering if by now they might be able to use just wave vectors through the air. You don't need LSD anymore. You don't need to poison someone; you don't need electroshock and you don't need to confine an individual for endless weeks with a repeating message one million times; subjecting to neurosurgery and all these barbaric and heavy and expensive rudimentary techniques. I would not be surprised if today they have evolved to beam individuals collectively, individually, locally and even beaming several tones to induce fear, paralysis, heart attacks, obedience, blindness; everything they want.

Joe: I have no doubt they've definitely tried experiments with that, in terms of the further application or more advanced application of these techniques. They want to control people. They start off by doing it in the way that you described with these hands on techniques. But surely they would have been interested in the effect on the brain and what's going on in the brain at this time; the psychological aspect of it and the electrical signals within the brain. They had lie detector machines for a long time that measured those kinds of responses. Modern medicine has been around for a long time, EEGs and stuff like that.

Pierre: And MRIs.

Joe: I don't doubt that if they were involved in this, which they were obviously under MKULTRA, that they explored that area and we even hypothesized that that's what HAARP is really for. HAARP is the modulation of brain waves on a broad scale.

Pierre: Right, it is presented as a weather alteration weapon.

Niall: It's not officially for that, as presented in the alternative media.

Pierre: You have several walls to jump over to which what we think is the truth. First you have the official theory wall: HAARP is about transmission, communication, and observation.

Niall: I'm not even sure. I think it was built on an experimental basis officially. Not an active program.

Pierre: Okay, and then you have the second wall which is the conspiracy, spread by the mainstream alternative media; The alternative media that are not really alternative. This second wall catches a lot of people, people who might not see through the official theories lies. Like for 9/11, 50 or 60 percent of the people don't believe the official theory so they start to search and stumble upon those conspiracy theory websites; free energy weapons, no plane theory, thermite, nano-thermite, etc., etc. So actually they avoided the first mainstream lie, the first trap and they fell into the second one. For HAARP, because actually the official theory is so unbelievable and a lot of people fall for the alternative theory; the conspiracy theory of weather alteration while what we think it suggests strongly and what the data suggests strongly, is that the HAARP program is todays' MKULTRA, it is the development of the 50's and 60's program.

Niall: Yeah, it's a tricky one because HAARP is supposedly doing something in terms of sending enormous amounts of energy high up into the atmosphere. It's not a big jump then, to go from there to see they are able to manipulate localized weather by directing this energy. It is not that out of this world to go there but what we suspect is the real purpose is even more sinister than that. They are doing this massive beaming of energy high up into the ionosphere in order to use it as a kind of a medium, a bit like a wireless medium, through which to directly affect and manipulate the emotions of people below it.

Pierre: The ionosphere basically is a wave mirror which reflects waves. That's the way you use the ionosphere to communicate over long distances between, say boats or ships, for example.

Niall: That's a radio wave.

Pierre: Some kinds of radio waves, not all of them. So yes, it is not a far stretch to imagine that what HAARP sends, what those massive antennas sends to the ionosphere, rebounds and goes back to Earth's surface, where humans are, and it is not a far stretch to see the connection with the brain, which is basically all about waves, wave patterns, and electric activity which is highly interacting with its electromagnetic medium.

Niall: That in addition to the fact that there have been a number of patents and experiments going back to the 70's, at least in geoengineering. Some of which may have been successful, most probably were not, some of which may have resulted in active programs today. We know for a fact that the Chinese government, the Venezuelan government and most probably the American government have been attempting cloud seeding to try and induce rainfall during heavy droughts.

Pierre: Cloud seeding is like step one of weather manipulation but what you say is true; that shows the manipulation is a smart lie because they invoke HAARP as a weather alteration tool and it makes sense because there are probably some weather alteration tools but since people often think in a binary way, yes or no, black or white, they think that 'okay since HAARP is a weather alteration tool, there is no mind control through a wave device.' It is not mutually exclusive. Today an attack force might be possible.

Joe: It's even worse than that because the people who promote HAARP as a weather modification technology, if you look at what they are saying "it is obviously a US owned technology, the US operates therefore it's ours." If it's essentially asymmetric warfare what else is it for? The US government isn't going to use it against Americans. It's going to use it against enemies, right? So the idea is that it would create droughts or floods in other parts of the world, targeted against the axis of evil or something like that. So that kind of placates the people, softens it and makes it not so scary anymore. Ultimately, it's no skin off of our nose and maybe it's actually good because maybe they are getting those damn rains or maybe they are attacking the Chinese or something. So it deflects attention completely away from what it's probably really for, which is, as we've been saying, mind control to some extent or on a mass scale; suppression of thinking abilities of the American people because when you turn it around to a mind control thing, well, then it becomes much more nefarious because then you think about: 'what is the government or any government or any elites major preoccupation and it's control over the population', control over the local population, not other populations, the local population.

The stuff that they have done, if the American people, as George Herbert Walker Bush is alleged to have said "if they ever found out what they have been doing, they would chase us down the streets or hang us in the streets" or something along those lines, which is true. That is not just conspiracy theory. We've talked about MKULTRA and that kind of stuff that has been done under the aegis and with the support of the US government and its intelligence agencies, against the American people, so that information is already out there. If Bush said what has been claimed he said, well then the rabbit hole goes much deeper and there's much more than what is publicly known.

Pierre: If HAARP was a weather alteration device controlled by the US, I'm not sure it is efficient, when you check the statistics about natural catastrophes, of weather disruptions in the US.

Joe: This leads into another topic that people really need to be aware of: weather anomalies, climate change, whatever you want to call it, it's continuing unabated or increasing. Just this last week, about a week ago, across the whole northern hemisphere, and then south as well in India and Pakistan, had major floods across many areas...

Niall: Europe too and further north?

Joe: Well yeah, as a result of storms in Europe there were serious hailstones the size of tennis balls. There is a story that in northern France it destroyed a village.

Pierre: Yes, in Massif Central you had hail the size of baseballs, about three inches in diameter; that is really big. It was a very local thunderstorm that hit a small village and in this village 70 percent of the houses were destroyed. Destroyed means: the windows and the roof gone. Almost the whole village was torn down.

Joe: And it wasn't just in France; it was in Belgium and Germany, there were storms. I think that it has to do with July being very hot across most of Europe and then you had the jet stream changing, bringing down polar air. It's northern Europe or the northern part of Western Europe that gets hit worst in those kinds of situations because that's the clash point between the two and it creates intense storms with major hail, major winds, and major flooding. You had it all across the US, flash floods sweeping cars away in Colorado and right across the Midwest. You had it in eastern Russia with major flooding. You had major floods in Japan, flash floods with many people being killed or being swept away. Also, in Pakistan and India more recently they had a monsoon. The monsoon length time is three months but they are saying that it's doubled the usual rainfall for a monsoon. In 24 hours they had doubled what they usually have in any given day, in previous years. And of course, in all these news reports you get this explanation that they're blaming it on deforestation. But the problem is that it has changed from year to year. Most of the deforestation has happened in the modern era, with modern machines and technology to affect it at an increasing rate, so the fact that it changed and increased 100 percent from last year to this year, suggests that it wasn't from deforestation.

Pierre: The jet stream is one cause and you have explained why it can increase rainfall and storms. I think in previous shows we have explained as well how the increase in atmospheric cometary dust can increase the frequency of storms and lightning. Maybe we can take the case of the typical summer storm. We didn't specifically address this point. Just imagine the jet stream is not involved here. You just have one of these hot summer days. So in summer, it means that your latitude is directly facing the sun. So the ionosphere, above your head, you're getting a lot of solar winds, highly positively charged and in addition, the solar winds tend to compress the atmosphere so it is closer to the Earth. So a highly charged ionosphere, which is closer to the Earth; you have a strong electric field between the ionosphere and the Earth's surface. And you add to that a lot of cometary dust or more cometary dust. Cometary dust makes the atmosphere less conductive so you don't have the fair weather leakage current. This constant movement of electrons from the Earth's surface to the positive ionosphere balances the charges between the ionosphere and the Earth's surface.

On the contrary, you have this very insulating dust charged atmosphere that prevents the fair weather electron circulation. And those electrons, instead of rising up into the ionosphere and balancing the charge, it gets cut short by the dust particles. That's how clouds form basically. During these hot summer days, the hot air rises from the ground. It is warm and moist and brings up water vapor and brings electrons up into the sky, and it reaches these dust clouds. Droplets start forming in the dust clouds and electrons accumulate and are caught by those clouds and in the end you have all those electrons in the bottom of those clouds. And in some places on the Earth's surface, all those electrons that rose up attracted by the positive ionosphere, created some electron deficient regions on the Earth's surface, especially if the ground is not conductive. That's why you have much more lightning above ground than above the sea because above the sea the conductive seawater can balance the electron deficiency because it is very conductive. When the potential difference of a charge between the negative cloud and the electron deficient, i.e. positive Earth surface, is high enough you get a massive discharge. From that we can deduce, that the frequency of lightning in general around the world and in particular in temperate regions where you have to factor in the addition of the meandering jet stream; this frequency of lightning will probably be on the increase.

Joe: Well, the frequency of lightning does seem to be on the increase if only as a result of the kinds of reports we've been seeing in various news media about people being hit or things being hit by lightning that we really haven't seen reported before. I kind of tend to gauge it - there are probably a lot of lightning strikes on different buildings and stuff or even cars that aren't reported because people just don't bother reporting them.

Niall: No, only when it hits them directly.

Joe: Because then they are dead and that would be a story. Generally speaking, you don't see it at all because there's a small enough number, combined with this lack of tendency for people to actually go and bother to try and tell someone about it. You see in the news recently, a story about a family whose car was hit by lightning while they were driving. It was through a storm and it was raining and stuff but it wasn't high winds or anything, just raining quite a lot and then all of a sudden their car was hit by lightning. It basically fried the car. I actually have a bit of an audio from the news report about it that I think is kind of instructive, so let's listen to it:
Recording: "Holy crap!" That's fast, lightning strikes and this family has the moment never to forget. Taylor, Denham, and Tanner Morlock were driving with their dad to Church Wells in southern Utah and the rain had been coming down all day when Taylor wished for something that he couldn't take back. "While we were driving I said I hope we get struck by lightning right at the beginning because we were in a really like big storm." Wish granted; a bolt of lightning strikes the SUV's antenna. "It's hot, it's scary, it's loud" says Denham. "It's just blazing hot," says Taylor. "Reached inside my stomach and twisted my insides," says Tanner. And really messed up the SUV. "The radio antenna was just like gone," says Denham. All the electrical gauges shut off. "You could definitely feel the hairs on your neck just go up," Taylor says. And with three tires blown out, they were stranded in the rain until someone driving by called for help.
Joe: So they were driving along and you can hear in the audio - they have a video where you see something kind of lighting up the car. There's a noise like a thump and basically, it blew out three of their tires, fried all the electrics in the car but charged their cell phones and made the interior of the car extremely hot.

Niall: No way!?

Joe: Yeah, but the interesting thing was, I don't know if it was interesting or not or maybe just a coincidence but it's kind of interesting, the little kid just before hand was saying "I hope lightning strikes us" and then I think they are saying, basically, almost right away they get hit.

Niall: Careful what you wish for.

Pierre: I find this commentary striking, no pun intended; sure, there is a lot of lightning that adjusts the cause of charge misbalance. The lightning follows the path of least resistance and we see the peak summits, electric poles, and the places that are the most charged in the highest position. It's purely a logical electric model but we might factor in the information theory factor. If there is a connection between the individuals, the information that they hold, consciousness, what they think, what they believe, and maybe what they wish in some cases. The study of Professor Jahn and Dr. Dunne about the capacity of human beings to influence so called random events. So maybe this boy got his wish fulfilled, unfortunately.

Joe: It's interesting that they were driving along this road and had electrical or telephone poles alongside the road but it hit a not even two foot tall thin metal wire, the radio antenna of their car. That's what saw the most damage that seems to have channeled the electrical charge but it can't be said that it was the highest point in that particular area. It had to have been very localized and the car was moving along the road.

Pierre: There are several parameters for where lightning is going to strike: there is the elevation, because the higher you are it lowers the distance between the point in the cloud where the negative charge accumulates; there is also the charge on the ground. Eighty-five percent of lightning is cloud to ground lightning, which means they carry electrons basically from the cloud, that is very negative, to the ground, that is less negative. It rebalances the charge like rain does. So, if you have an area that is quite low and, for whatever reason, is quite positive, it can strike there. So indeed, elevation is not the only factor, there is elevation, electric charge locally in the ground, and there is also possibly influence of the observers so it's a combination of these three factors.

Joe: It's quite remarkable that this car moving along at a pretty high rate of speed was chosen - if that's the right word.

Niall: This reminds me of a story from earlier this year where lightning strikes on a small US Air Force base, I've forgotten where but they interviewed the guy who was manning the tower, some young officer, he was bit shocked because it had struck directly on the actual pavement, not the runway itself but closer to his observation point. You see this video camera trained on that area and it captured the moment the strike hits. It could have hit higher points but it hit the ground. It actually broke a chunk of pavement or paving right off. They interviewed him and he was a bit stunned still, like a week after and he seemed surprised that he wasn't hit. He was pretending to go along with it as just regular news. It's just a lightning strike, no big deal and answering the questions but he was a bit miffed by where it had chosen to discharge, on the most flat surface, when it could have hit anything standing up.

Pierre: Yeah, it is difficult. Elevation is easy to see, it's visible. Electrical charge in the ground, electrical charge variation, is more difficult to evaluate. Actually, when you see a Tesla coil, sometimes people create Tesla coils and install them on top of a post like five meters above the ground. Tesla coils are basically lightning generators. They switch on the Tesla coil and you see all those lightning discharges with the environment; on the wall of the house nearby, on the fence, on the tree, and on the ground; because there is another phenomenon that has an influence on the local charges in the ground. If you have an intense storm activity with a lot of lightning, once lightning strikes in one place, it rebalances the charge and that place is no longer an attractor, it is less of an attractor than before the strike. That's why people usually say lightning never strikes twice in the same place.

Joe: Nicolas in the chat room said he understood: "when in your car, the tires act as an insulator so it would be a very low likelihood of getting struck by lightning in your car."

Pierre: There is a very low likelihood of being electrocuted in a car because of the Faraday cage.

Joe: And these people were obviously fine, they weren't injured in any way.

Pierre: And because the electricity of the lightning will be channeled by the body of the car, it won't go through you. Especially if it rains, the car becomes conductive and the rain around the tires will make the whole body of the car very conductive. It reminds me of another story that we found recently because we've been talking about this epidemic of fertilizer plant explosions and unexplained fires and more generally chemical plants and power stations; and after some research, we realized over the last three months more than forty plants had experienced explosions and/or fires. We went on investigating and we found this puzzling incident in La Salle, US, on April 18th, a nuclear plant went through an incident after being struck by lightning. It was suggested, 'to what extent a nuclear plant plume could attract discharges' and here we are talking about discharges in general, like lightning but also cometary discharges.

So, after our research we realized that nuclear plant plumes can be attractors for two reasons: a) it is made mostly of water vapor which is a very good conductor and it means electrons can rise through the chimney which is full of iron and steel rebars and then through the plume, which is highly conductive because of the vapor; and b) nuclear plants emit ionizing radiation. Ionizing radiation, like the word indicates, ionizes molecules so it will create charge separation in the plume. You have a lot of negative ions and a lot of positive ions. You will have the negative ions attracted by the positive ionosphere on the top of the plume and the positive ions attracted by the negative charge of the Earth's surface at the bottom of the plume. So you can picture this long plume over the nuclear plant, extending over kilometers and along the top of the plume and the side that is exposed to clouds and to incoming cometary bodies, is nicely negatively charged.

Joe: The incident that you are referring to was back in April, at the La Salle Nuclear Plant, that I think is near Chicago, and it was struck by lightning. It took out the power of both reactors. It's obviously very worrying here, not just the fertilizer and gas plant type events, as far as we are concerned, that seem to have some kind of relationship with cometary bodies and that doesn't exclude lightning nor electrical discharge but it seems, so far anyway, that in the incidents with nuclear reactors the threat is indirect, in a way, because it seems, from what we've seen anyway, that nuclear power plants tend to attract lightning strikes that then shuts down power to the reactors. If that happens very quickly you could have a meltdown and so indirectly you could have a serious nuclear plant problem but as of yet we haven't seen nuclear power stations getting hit by meteorites which would be an altogether different barrel of fish.

Niall: There was another one which I hadn't heard until I found it a couple of days ago, on May 3rd, so about two weeks after that one in Georgia: "Power plant explosion sounded like a sonic boom and earthquake. Two people were injured. Residents from miles around heard and felt the explosion, allegedly caused by a malfunctioning turbine." Now this wasn't a nuclear plant, it was a coal powered plant but it was the second largest such plant in the western hemisphere. I think they had to shut down 95% of their systems as a result. They didn't say what kind of explosion but of course they wouldn't know. It's the only thing all these incidents have in common, you go to them and say "Well, what happened?" and the response is "We don't know. We just know it is happening more often."

Pierre: And you have this Venezuelan plant as well.

Joe: The oil refinery?

Pierre: Yeah, an oil refinery.

Joe: It was kind of a mixing pool where hydrocarbons, oil basically, and water, it's a separating pool I think. It's basically an open air pool beside the oil refinery compound; it was hit by lightning and it ignited. The oil in this very large pool caused a massive fire. There are just so many incidents all around the world, we are seeing these pop up where lightning strikes, or what appear to be overhead cometary explosions, or detonations, are centered on these kinds of installations.

Pierre: These are attractors for discharges because of the specificity of the plumes. The plumes are high up and they are electrically charged; that's two factors to maximize the attractions for these cometary or lightning discharges. The last set of events is quite ironic. Actually, if you check about the history of lightning rods, we see that in 1913 a new kind of lightning rod was introduced. It was a radioactive lightning rod made of Americium. It's a radioactive element because of, as I said previously, this ionizing radiation generated by the radioactive elements, you get this charge separation which can act as an attractor for lightning. It was kind of a smart idea. There are like tens of thousands of these lightning rods over churches and buildings. It's a strong pollution. Ironic, in a sense, that today nuclear plants are some kind of giant lightning rods. What is puzzling about the La Salle incident, is that of course nuclear plants are designed to sustain lightning discharges. They are covered with lightning rods that are big, big lightning wires connecting the top of the chimney to the ground. So, it's difficult to say what caused the La Salle incident but lightning bringing down two reactors is quite puzzling. You have pictures if you check on Google, lightning and nuclear plants, you can see pictures. There is one of a lightning that strikes right in the middle of the reactor and the reactor went on fine. It struck right in the middle of the chimney and it was channeled through the lightning rod and lightning wires, to the ground.

Joe: We're dealing with a new phenominon here, I think that's the problem; It's a new science to some extent really. Modern mainstream science hasn't encountered this before because otherwise, like you were saying Pierre, how can this happen when power plants have obviously been hit by lightning before and they have set up lightning rods and lightning rods are meant to work and they do work?

Pierre: Most of the time.

Niall: And they have been working for half a century.

Pierre: Not always because we don't know everything about lightning. There's an electric dimension to lightning of course but there might be more. We can only speculate; but several cases, like we mentioned this Roy Sullivan ranger that got struck seven times - you have a lot of reports of buildings literally covered with lightning rods and then the lightning strikes on the wall. It's not conductive, there's no metal, there's no wire, and no water, so I think we don't factor in all the variables that defines how lightning behaves.

Joe: The true nature of lightning is not known.

Pierre: There might be something more than the electric nature of lightning. Then if you factor in the asteroids, cometary bodies; the big problem is that mainstream science doesn't acknowledge the electric nature of cometary bodies. The two specificities of incoming asteroids are: a) the very high electric charge and so a very high electric discharge; and b) the opposite polarity. Apparently, it's not like lightning that goes from cloud to ground because the ground is more positive, apparently it is the opposite with an asteroid, in most cases. It is the ground that is mostly negative so you have a current that is stronger and it goes in the opposite direction and so your protection systems...

Joe: It goes from the ground up, is what you are saying. You may get lightning from the ground to a cometary body or a meteorite?

Pierre: Yes, so the protection systems that are designed for downward "weak" currents might not be adapted to protect an installation against an upward strong current.

Joe: Well, in talking about trying to understand this electrical nature of comets and meteorites, NASA has taken the opportunity to investigate some aspects of the Russian meteorite, back in Feb. 15th of this year, in Chelyabinsk, Russia. And they went as far as to release a little video on their study of the after effects of that meteorite and they published it on the web. I will just let you listen to it:
NASA: It's early morning on Feb. 15th, 2013. A meteor weighing 10,000 metric tons is about to explode nearly 23 kilometers above Chelyabinsk. Shortly after local sunrise; a blinding sight for the stunned spectators on the ground, (sound of explosion) a massive explosion equivalent to 440 kilotons of TNT. Hundreds of tons of debris released and quickly moved up into the atmosphere. The highly sensitive OMPS instruments on board the Suomi/NPP satellite made its first observation of the plume nearly three and a half hours later, an entire 1,100 kilometers east of the explosion and already at 40 kilometers altitude, well into the Earth's stratosphere. A surprising observation since the stratosphere usually acts as a bumper that caps aerosols trying to rise up from the lower atmosphere. By inserting a column of data from the first plume observation into two NASA models, scientists were able to project the plume's trajectory. The models showed that the plume at higher altitudes, shown in red, would move ahead of the lower layer, shown in yellow. The reason would be the difference in wind velocity at the lower and higher altitudes. Also illustrated here, is how accurately the satellite observations coincided with the projected path of the plume. When OMPS made its second observation back at Chelyabinsk, nearly 5 hours after the bolide, there was still evidence of the plume at a lower 30 kilometer altitude. On Feb. 16th, one day after the bolide, the OMPS instrument detected the far end of the plume even further, at 1,700 to 4,300 kilometers eastward from the explosion. By Feb. 19th, four days after the explosion, the satellite observation showed that the meteor debris had circumnavigated the entire globe and returned to Chelyabinsk, forming a complete global belt. The clean shape of the belt was another surprising prediction, considering that Northern hemisphere winds during the winter are usually rather inconsistent in direction. A further look into the model simulation showed that evidence of the plume would persist for a long time, which also coincided with the satellite observations.
Niall: There you have it folks: comet dust; this is what we have been talking about.

Pierre: Well there are several interesting tidbits in this video. The first one is the power of the explosion of 440 kilotons. That's 22 times the Nagasaki explosion. The other tidbit is the weight of the meteorite at 10,000 metric tons. I don't know how they managed to evaluate that.

Niall: I've heard so many different figures.

Pierre: I think it is a way to maintain the mainstream theory that meteorite risks are correlated to the size, it's purely mechanical. As we see more and more, the main risk coming from meteorites is not mechanical, it's mostly EMP(electromagnetic pulse), electric discharges, and accompanying microbes, viruses and the mutagenic capabilities. The third point is that, at the end, they say it's puzzling because the plume went along the circumference of the Earth faster than the wind. And that's another consequence, "proof", of the electric nature of our atmosphere. The dust particles get charged and they are subjected to the electric field between the atmosphere and the ionosphere and subjected to the magnetic field of the planet, as well. Therefore, there is a subsequent Lorenz force, electromotive force, that's perpendicular to the electric field and to the magnetic field. Then it will propel the charged particles around the atmosphere like the jet stream basically; it's exactly the same process.

Joe: Well, they were saying that their problem was normally during the winter time when this took place that these currents like the jet stream for example is really not very...

Niall: Erratic.

Joe: Yeah, it doesn't conform in a fairly straight forward continuous band around the northern hemisphere. They were expecting that, this dust or this debris from this meteorite, would have been carried along with this wind and should have shown a pattern similar to the erratic pattern of the northern jet stream but it's higher up in the air.

Pierre: It's higher. The less turbulence there is the less resistance and more ionization. The higher you go, the more ionized the air is so the more ionized the particles gets, the more the electric behavior is and the less mechanical the behavior is.

Joe: The more that is guided by electrical factors.

Niall: This was just one body. How many reports have we had of exploding fireballs and each one will leave a significant amount of debris in the atmosphere and will be carried and cover the entire planet?

Joe: Talking about overhead meteorite detonations; there was a story that I was surprised actually to see in the news, I think was just this week or about a week ago. It's from Winnipeg and it was reported, there were at least 50 black birds found dead near the intersection of two streets in Winnipeg, on the 12th of August. This reminds us again of the events that we have had on the first of the year, for the past two years, not including this year I don't think, but in 2011 and 2012, on the first day of the year, of those two years, were these bird deaths, birds falling from the sky. This report that we talked about at the time, in an article that we wrote about this weather station that looked at the Doppler radar, in fact, and saw this kind of explosion or plume of some kind of material, on the Doppler radar, over the area at 7,000 feet, I think at that time.

Niall: It seemed to stretch upwards.

Joe: I think it was in Beebe, Arkansas. In that case it was the most plausible explanation for the bird die offs. People were coming up with all sorts of outlandish theories, like all the birds just suddenly ran into buildings or they were hit by something ridiculous but the most obvious explanation was that they were hit by the shock wave, from this thing that was recorded. This detonation of something, most likely a meteorite in the area, about 7,000 feet, on that night and it's just interesting to see that we were kind of thinking that there was something about the first of the year but obviously not, since there was another one on August 12th, so that is just an example. We haven't had a chance to look at what was going on in the Winnipeg area on that day but chances are you will find at least the sighting of a fireball or a meteorite in the sky, on one of the websites that tracks them from eyewitnesses. Chances are, you will see that there was something in the sky at that time. It just adds to, as Niall was saying, the amount of fireballs that people have been seeing around the world. They're getting ridiculous at this point. It's expanding and increasing exponentially really. Also, the numbers of booms that people have been hearing. There have been many, many reports of unknown booms or sonic booms. People have been describing them as sonic booms in the sky. That is ongoing as well. So if these are incoming rocks, of various different sizes, exploding in the atmosphere it just adds to this comet dust, or meteorite or space rock dust, that's in our atmosphere. That obviously ties into the crazy weather that we've been having, as we have discussed in previous shows. There is also the fact of microbes.

Niall: Could you go back to your explanation of why lightning discharges anyway and what's different about it, if there is more comet dust there between the surface and the ionosphere? I think you explained it to me earlier in the week and the way I made sense of it is that lightning discharges to the ground naturally because there is an imbalance that's trying to rebalance. With more comet dust there, there is more resistance, therefore there is more of a buildup and more intense and then boom. There needs to be a more rapid charge to rebalance things.

Pierre: Two features of cometary dust in the atmosphere is that: a) they make the atmosphere more resistant so there is less what is called 'fair weather circulation'. Natural rebalancing without discharge, without lightning, without anything really visible or catastrophic; and b) this cometary dust captures electrons and allows the creation of charged regions in the atmosphere, clouds. That's why an increase in cometary dust in the atmosphere, is likely to increase the frequency of lightning and many other things that we can develop in another show like hurricanes, tornadoes, and depressions.

Joe: And flooding as well obviously because rather than having a more gradual release of rain, it builds up, builds up, builds up and you get a flood. You get it all at once as opposed to over a period of time.

Pierre: The increase in rainfall is due, among other factors, to the increase of cometary dust because cometary dust acts as a nucleation agent from which droplets form.

Joe: So, not necessarily to have more rain falling on the planet but that rain would maybe be taken, depending on the weather pattern, and you would have more rainfall over a smaller area than previously where you would have it more widespread. This ties into what has been going on in the US where you have basically massive drought in one section and floods a few hundred miles away.

Pierre: There is a meandering jet stream to factor in, as well. There is the cooling down of the upper atmosphere to factor in which acts in the following way during fair weather: during a hot summers day, the electrons freely rise up as convection and warm moist air freely rises up and since the higher atmosphere is cooler, you have more condensation, basically, and that's the logical consequence; and because of the cometary dust you have more nucleation. Nucleation and condensation are the two main drivers of cloud formation. From clouds to rain, there is only one step which is coalescence, the transformation of water droplets. This coalescence is increased by an electric field. Droplets submitted to an electric field tends to coalesce more and to drop down. When they drop down they drop from a negatively charged area, the cloud, to the ground which is electron deficient and like lightning they allow, they enable a rebalancing of the local electric charge between the cloud and the Earth's surface.

Joe: We have a call here. Hi caller, what's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: My name is Laurie and I'm calling from Idaho.

Joe: Hi Laurie.

Niall: Welcome.

Pierre: Hi.

Laurie: Hey, thank you. Your show is awesome. I have a question about how the electrical nature of what you are talking about, the weather patterns and stuff; what is that to fire? We have a big fire here, in the same area as there was a big fire last year, and the one this year is behaving very erratically. It's like it throws fire out of itself across a large area, like an arc almost.

Niall: So, it's like a fire starts and you are describing the way it spreads from one area to another?

Laurie: Yeah, it's behaving differently than the fire last year because it's just creating these big vortexes of fire and then it throws the fire off of itself. It looks more electrical than the fire was last year. The pictures are bizarre.

Pierre: That is a very good question and I'm not sure we have the answer but we can have some tentative hypothesis.

Laurie: You're talking like the ionization from the cometary dust and stuff, could that change the atmosphere so the fires would behave differently?

Niall: Yeah, and as a follow on question I wondered: does it directly change the atmosphere on the ground or the lower level of the atmosphere? We have a historical precedent for strange behaviors of fires. I'm thinking of the Chicago fire back in 1870-something [October 10, 1871] where that did some bizarre things.

Joe: Well, let's ask the question: if there was a change in the electrical charge on the surface of the planet or below in the Earth's crust; how would that or might that affect fire? Pierre? Just throw an idea out there (laughter).

Pierre: Well, I can throw an idea. Frankly I don't know, but it's a very good point and it would exercise my mind, I'm sure, and it's much more work for the coming book, so thank you for the inspiration. I don't know but you mentioned the word vortex, so you probably see those upward spiraling shape of fire. Is that what you saw?

Laurie: Yeah, it's violent looking and very, very fast and just weird.

Pierre: Tornado like?

Laurie: Yeah.

Pierre: Well, tornadoes should definitely be increased by the incoming cometary dust because basically tornadoes are also, basically, an electrical rebalancing phenomenon where you have an electron movement, electron circulation. It's between the fair weather circulation, where the electrons ascend gently from the Earth's surface to the ionosphere or to the cloud. Between this fair weather and the violent discharge, described previously as lightning, you have electrons that still rise but with more intensity and with a spiraling trajectory because of the Birkeland currents and we see interacting electrons on the same trajectory, tend to spiral around each other.

Joe: So, you are saying that if this was happening inside of a large fire, would they have a direct effect on the actual flames and the combustion?

Pierre: It can, because I've been thinking about it, previously, but it's not very clear yet but this convection phenomenon, this rising air which goes with fire because fire heats up the air that rises up.

Laurie: Yeah, these fires are causing their own storms.

Pierre: Exactly. It will raise particles as well. An increase in smoke will increase the resistance and the buildup of a charged difference between the higher parts of the atmosphere, the cloud regions and the ground.

Laurie: That stuff that is burning has water in it and pushes that moisture up too right?

Pierre: Vapor as well can increase the condensation. Yes, so there are probably those factors at work.

Joe: I would say Laurie, that it's probably linked, although we don't have it completely figured out yet but I would say to everybody that you need to be very careful in general around fires. Fires may not, especially wild fires, act as you expect them to. A fire never does but it maybe even stranger or worse than people have experienced in the past.

Laurie: The fire officials have remarked about it several times, that this fire is just very bizarre and they don't understand why its behavior is so different than previous fires.

Joe: Yeah, like there was that story about the 19 firefighters, was it in Colorado?

Niall: I think it was Arizona.

Laurie: Arizona.

Joe: Arizona yeah. That was unusual in the sense that these guys are veterans and they know what fires do, yet 19 of them were caught unaware so that suggests that there was something strange about that fire.

Pierre: If you have an increase in cometary dust in the atmosphere, you have the buildup of these local charges in the atmosphere, so a buildup of the electric fields between those clouds or between those regions in the atmosphere and the Earth's surface, that leads to electron movements that induce vortex trajectories. Those air vortexes fuel the fire in at least two ways: a) it brings air circulation to the fire, like when you blow on a fire to increase its intensity; and b) by definition an electric current generates heat as well. So, it's through the incoming air and through the electrically induced heat that you have two factors that increase the fire.

Joe: Will make it more intense.

Pierre: Yes.

Joe: That is a good point Laurie and I think that definitely factors into what we are seeing because all of these things are connected; floods, tornadoes, wild fires, all of the extremes do seem to have a common linkage between them and we think, it's ultimately electrical in nature and that expands obviously to the whole electrical nature of the universe and the changes that are ongoing in our solar system and the sun. Even to posit the idea of a twin sun and the whole idea of the electrical nature of a binary star system with an incoming twin.

Laurie: Yeah, our whole area of space is kind of behaving differently.

Joe: It's charging up.

Niall: Did you, Laurie, or anyone around you notice anything particular about the fire that made you think 'hang on, that's not actually fire'? I'm asking because there was a story from Texas earlier in the year where it wasn't a wildfire but, I think, a series of telephone poles along a street all caught fire or appeared to catch fire. They were not actually on fire. It was some kind of plasma like flame coming off them.

Joe: Well that, I think, was associated with an overhead passage because that has been reported before. Either some kind of electrical phenomenon because it was reported back in the Carrington event, back in 1859, where telegraph poles burst into flames or with some kind of activity going on. That's what you are talking about, I think because it is associated either with, I don't think it was a solar flare but it is more likely to be a passage of, some kind of, electrically charged body in the atmosphere for some reason.

Laurie: I remember reading about that too. But that is what I meant by the fire arcing like electricity would arc. There is a piece of the fire that gets flung out of the fire and it's starting another fire sometimes hundreds of yards away, which is weird for a fire.

Niall: Wow.

Joe: That is very, very strange and it brings to mind the reports about the great fire of Chicago where people were reporting flames moving across open land with no observable source of combustion.

Laurie: Yeah, that's the Mrs. O'Leary's cow kind of thing isn't it?

Joe: Exactly, yes.

Pierre: Vertical arcing?

Niall: Did you see it yourself?

Laurie: I saw it on the TV. They had pictures of it. No, I haven't been that close to the fire myself. I've been close enough to have ashes falling on me.

Pierre: And were the arcs vertical?

Laurie: No horizontal. The flames were like 40 to 50 feet high and then a piece of fire will just come horizontally out of the fire, a piece of fire and start another fire, 150 to 200 yards away.

Joe: Like jump across. That's amazing.

Pierre: Is the video on the internet?

Laurie: You know, I don't know if it's on the internet. I might look up the local TV station.

Niall: See if you can find it and send it to us. We would love to see that and in the meantime, you stay safe.

Joe: Yeah, stay safe Laurie.

Laurie: I will, I live a long ways away from it. We were just camping up there in the mountains in the same place and the same weekend where they found the girl, Hanna.

Joe: Oh yeah?

Laurie: Cascade, Idaho.

Niall: What's that story about?

Laurie: The girl that got kidnapped in San Diego and the guy took her to the Frank Church Wilderness Area, out by Cascade, Idaho, and the FBI guys shot him. Yeah, we were in that area on that weekend.

Joe: Oh wow! Well definitely stay safe then, I mean even though you've been okay so far, just keep your eyes peeled.

Laurie: Yeah, I will.

Pierre: And thank you for your question. It was very stimulating.

Laurie: I'm glad. It would be nice to see some more information on the possible electrical nature of fire itself.

Joe: Yeah, we'll have to look into it.

Laurie: Okay, thanks guys. Thanks for your time.

Joe: Alright Laurie, thanks for your call. Bye.

Pierre: Thank you.

Laurie: Bye.

Niall: I think the general observation made to back Laurie up, is that she is not alone in noticing that fires are particularly strong in intensity. This crack team of firefighters in Arizona, they have a term for them like, the 'Star Firefighting Force' or something [Granite Mountain Hotshots], these guys were out there and what it shows is that the old techniques of fighting fire with fire, where they would try to scorch the Earth to starve off its combustion. These guys were caught quicker than they could get out and they had to do their own technique, to try and survive, which was to dig a hole in the ground and pull a kind of blanket over them, but it didn't matter, they were scorched; all but one of them I think, really tragic. But it shows you how fast this came on and how intense it was.

Joe: And I know people will say, 'well fires are very dangerous and they can come on very fast'. These guys were doing it as their fulltime job and they were, a kind of elite firefighter, so certainly they knew all of the dangers of fire but even then, in this instance, something happened that they could not predict.

Pierre: And if it happens in rural areas or fields or forests, they will assume it is not an electric fire and they would fight it with traditional techniques against forest fires, basically with retardants and water. The problem is if it's an electric fire or if there is an electric dimension to the fire, putting water on it will increase conductivity and will make it worse.

Joe: Make it more intense.

Pierre: And they might get electrocuted in addition.

Niall: We've noticed this ourselves. There have been quite a few fires in the area here. There was a really intense one that scorched an entire barn and like 10,000 bales of hay went up in smoke.

Pierre: But apparently what Laurie was talking about, was the particular features of the fire per se, the vortex and the mode of propagation. Those barns burning might be related and there may be some impact and also some discharges.

Niall: I think I've seen some stats showing that wildfire numbers have increased year-on-year.

Joe: Absolutely.

Pierre: Well, if you have more meteorites, it's not inconsistent to notice also more fires, it can be a cause.

Joe: Another chat room member just said he was reading an experiment where Tesla was doing an experiments to induce physical flame-like phenomenon that looked like fire but wasn't entirely fire or even hot. If that's true, then again that ties back to the reports from the great fires of Chicago, where this wall of flame was moving across open land with no visible source of combustion and people were in its path were found dead but unburned in any way. In one case, copper coins in this man's pockets were fused together. That ties in with this idea that this kind of a fire, the fire that we were talking about in terms of the great Chicago fire and Tesla's alleged experiments, that it's not a hot electrical fire. That it is not essentially hot in the sense that it burns normal organic materials but it does essentially melt metal.

Pierre: If it's electric, it will follow the path of least resistance. It would go through and heat up metals and usually it will not go through human bodies, they are quite resistant, not very conductive.

Joe: But it might fry their...

Pierre: All the metal on them.

Joe: It might fry their electrical systems, i.e. their heart and their brain. Or it may shock them and they have a heart attack.

Pierre: Especially if it goes through their heart.

Niall: There's a pattern here where even all the things we thought we knew, we have to go back to the drawing board and re-examine them in light of this new factor: the fireball and meteor phenomenon because it seems to be changing the environment, in a way, or at least opening our eyes to phenomena we thought were more or less settled. Science is settled kind of thing. We have to go back and re-examine everything.

Pierre: It can affect everything. Things as fundamental and as settled, apparently, as the spinning frequency of the planet or the tilt of the planet or the geomagnetic field of the planet.

Niall: Or, did you hear the story this week about a study, Joe you were telling me, it's a Stanford study. What did they come up with?

Joe: Stanford study on what?

Niall: They said that the planet was heating from within.

Joe: Oh yeah, a study saying that the arctic ice shelf was melting and, as everybody knows it does in the summertime, usually, global warming or rather seasonal warming, global warming should change to seasonal warming and there should also be seasonal cooling; the arctic ice shelf or the ice coverage in the arctic area was melting but that most of it was due to the heat coming from inside the planet. I didn't actually look into it to the point where they explained how they had figured out or how they knew the heat was coming from inside the planet but I suspect that it's something to do with the fact that they had no evidence, that there was enough heat coming from the atmosphere.

Pierre: That was my take on it. The way they reached this conclusion, from what I understood, they compare two models. One model factoring in atmospheric variables and one model adding the internal heat variable and so they concluded that the latter model was more reliable because its predictions were pretty close to the measurements and the observations. I tend to agree with Joe's conclusion. It's a way to find heat somewhere else because there is not enough heat in the atmosphere, so they factor in internal heat. However, I'm not sure if the Earth is hotter or warmer globally, but locally on the surface, it might be hotter in some places because of what we mentioned in previous shows; the slowdown of the Earth and the reduction of the internal electric field that deforms the Earth and reduces the binding forces and triggers a little opening up. Opening up means you have a crust that is more gaseous, has more magma, more hot substances seeping through and reaching the surface. So, that may be a correlation with this "heating up".

Joe: Speaking of heating up or opening up, as you have just said; recently there was a massive, kind of like, sinkhole opened up and it's really impressive.

Niall: I think we touched on that last week.

Joe: Did we? But anyway it's 90 feet deep.

Niall: It's growing, I think.

Joe: 300 feet wide and still growing, because there are cracks all around the edges and I was just watching a video of it and it's really impressive; it's very big and it kind of reminds me of that Sarlacc from The Return of the Jedi film, the Star Wars film; the great pit of Carkoon. It's like a big version of that, without the big mouth at the bottom but you never know what might appear one of these days. There's a video of people there and it's really, really big. It's like 300 feet across and 90 feet deep. That's a big hole and it appeared almost overnight. No one seems to know but they say it was over two days.

Niall: It was in a remote place.

Joe: Well, they said two days because, I think the only person they could find, that was there, said it wasn't there two days before hand and then someone discovered it two days later. So, they said it was two days but it could have happened all at once, for all they know. At the very least, it opened within two days and there are people walking right down right to the bottom and there were police there; apparently it's an attraction like a mini Grand Canyon or something. People are just sauntering down and no one seems to take notice of the fact that this may have opened all of a sudden and they are standing at the bottom of it taking pictures.

Niall: But it's great. There is something to do and see in Kansas now.

Joe: But it's in the middle of nowhere and the guy says there is no oil well or any kind of underground drilling or anything that could have caused it. Of course geologists come up with 'water and underground aquifer mixed with a salt bed - blah, blah, blah - softened the ground'. This just opened up and it's one of many, many; as listeners and readers of will know, that have been opening up over the past number of years. I just thought that it was interesting that the sheriff, when he was asked about it, said: "Man has nothing to do with this. This is a God thing. There is no oil well here - blah, blah, blah - This is something that just happened".

Niall: So, just rise with Jesus and all will be good.

Joe: You can see how these things kind of start happening. People just go with God; God did it and pray.

Niall: When there are other options and the main option that is provided whenever the sinkhole story comes up, its: 'heavy rains washed away the undersoil therefore the ground collapsed.' Now, when you have a great big hole appearing more or less overnight in a hot dry, center of Kansas, that's not going to fly with locals.

Joe: But also, it is interesting that there was this guy there who was interviewed and he's looking at him and he says: "Where did it all go? Where did all this material go because there's not a hole at the bottom?" It's a big pit, 90 feet deep and 300 feet wide, and there is that quantity of material missing but you can see the bottom. That's why I thought of the pit in The Return of the Jedi. It's like, something just opened up and sucked a massive amount of land and then closed again or it filled a hole, whatever, but the thing about it is, I just found it interesting; the poor people standing at the bottom of it.

Pierre: Well, this opening up phenomenon doesn't only occur on the planet Earth. Actually, there is a strong correlation between the solar activity and the diameter of the sun. When the sun is less active, i.e. its internal field between the core and the surface is reduced, then the binding force is lessened, you see the dilatation of the sun. The surface is less attracted to the core. It seems to be one of the two main factors that explain the current opening up: the reduction this time on the Earth and the internal electric field between the core and the surface, that doesn't hold, that doesn't attract the surface to the core.

Joe: Just to mention to our listeners, the kind of stuff that we are saying here, trying to find an explanation for these things that are going on, noticing that things are going on and trying to find an explanation for them, is the one thing that all of the scientists on our planet and scientifically minded people are not doing. They are not factoring things in. They are just going to take each incident in isolation and come up with some trite outrageous explanation for it, to explain it away. There was a website by someone who was actually talking about that sinkhole in Kansas and I had an exchange with her, I think it was, and she was just really resistant to the idea that anything was happening on the planet. It was like these things happen all the time and its nothing to be concerned about and it's just very interesting. So, you are going to have the world scientists looking at these things and saying "Hmm, isn't that interesting" right up to the point where he gets swallowed by a sinkhole or all of them get swallowed by sinkholes.

You can just imagine the situation where they will continue to study and continue to try and explain it away as nothing, rather than factoring in all of the details together and say something is going on here. Even using the hard scientific fact about major upheavals on the planet in history - even if it was a long time ago, well not that long ago. They would even accept that, maybe 10 to 12,000 years ago, there were major upheavals on the planet that is pretty much the Younger Dryas period; there were major upheavals then but supposedly, 12,000 years ago is too long ago to be happening now. What do these people think it will be like, if something like what they accept happened in the past, started happening again? Have any of them thought of that and maybe come up with a theory as to what the signs would be? And do they correlate to what the signs are today? It's maddening that none of them will actually go there and the only explanation that we have or that I can think of is, that they are so invested in this: 'linear God is in heaven and all is right with the world and nothing ever changes'. This kind of...

Pierre: Uniformitarian.

Joe: Uniformitarian approach to things, even though they admit that in the past, events on the Earth have been far from uniformitarian or certainly if you take it over a broad sweep over the Earth's history, it's not uniformitarian and it's not regular either. Look at it this way, 12,000 years ago they admit that it has happened. They can't go back 24,000 years ago and know for sure that it didn't happen every 12,000 years. If they could see 24,000 years ago and know that something similar happened then they might think that well, the last one was 12,000 years ago so that puts it at right now. But you are not allowed to do that because anything that upsets this uniformitarian world view is thrown out. It's automatically a priori excluded from any thought process.

Pierre: There is some kind of magnification bias or anthropocentric bias where we think that our period, our location, is so central and so stable. Although when you check the records, geomagnetic fields, cometary activity and ice ages, you see that periods of stability are not the rule, they are the exceptions. The planet is fundamentally cyclical. Actually, the 12,000 year argument is pretty strong. The way mainstream media and mainstream science treats it, is that it was 12,000 years ago - it was a long time ago and that's why they raise more recent proofs of major upheaval because if you check more carefully the records; the event of 12,000 years ago was one event but it was followed by many events. You don't have to go back much in time to find major disruptions. Just to mention one and not to repeat ourselves: the fall of the Roman Empire - we could mention the Black Plague in 1347 - after years of intense cometary activity, we have the ice age that settles and will last 300 years and you have the Black Plague that will also last 300 years.

Joe: Those are major upheavals.

Pierre: That lasted until 1720 and that will kill hundreds of millions of people. It was six or seven centuries ago.

Niall: They are expanding on that too. It's traditionally said to have been a European phenomenon only but millions died globally. It was a global event.

Pierre: Hundreds of meteors and there were not 8 billion human beings on the planet. It was maybe 30 to 40% of the world population that got erased, obliterated.

Niall: That's something, just 600, actually I think we mentioned it today, its 666 years, this year, since the Black Death began and wiped almost two thirds of the global population. That was a massive culling just 600 years ago.

Joe: That's for the numerologists out there: 666 {laughter}. One other thing that occurred to me, is that I have been looking at some old, original maps from the 1400s, 1500s and stuff, and most of them are done by European topographers. Almost all of them, roughly show the western European continent and a bit of Africa more or less correct but all along the western coast from Ireland down to the western coast of France and Spain and to the Canaries, they show this kind of string of islands of different sizes; a lot of them. The ones I've looked at from different sources all show this and these are not there anymore, except for the Canary Islands. It's kind of an example of what I said. They obviously were able to get most of the British Isles and Western Europe more or less the right shape and everything and so obviously, they were maritime people and somehow they mapped out the shape of the countries and they included these islands. That's just dismissed as being a mistake: "They got the rest okay but they made a mistake there."

Niall: It was poetic license. It's just a bit of flare thrown in.

Joe: It coincides with this time frame that you were talking about, of a period of major cometary activity and the Black Death. It's kind of hidden in plain sight right there but it is ignored repeatedly because it does not conform to the religion of science. And they are just as bad as religious fundies who will, when faced with events that don't make sense to them, will just turn around and pray to God. They just turn around and pray to the book of official science and hope that in doing that will make these anomalies go away.

Pierre: It goes hand in hand historically because after the major disruption that brought the fall of the Roman Empire at the end of the 6th century AD, you had three centuries that were basically blank. Then western civilization re-emerged and with this re-emergence, you have this rewriting of history that erased all the records of major cataclysms, presenting a uniformitarian view of the world and you also had the rise of the Christian Catholic church that was promoting basically ignorance, obscurantism; so that was preventing people from accessing this knowledge.

Joe: Even accessing education or the resources to educate themselves.
{lost connection}

Joe: Okay, where were we?

Pierre: After the reemergence of the western civilization, around the year 2000 [1000]; first you have this domination of the Catholic Church that was promoting obscurantism, ignorance basically, which prevented human beings from reaching knowledge and understanding their history and understanding how to, maybe, prevent the occurrence of those disruptions. Then, when finally obscurantism started to decrease you had the concomitant rise of scientism that was basically a new religion that was stuffed into people's brains. Not ignorance this time but wrong data which is not better to understand the cyclical nature of our world, our influence on cosmic events and maybe ways to avoid history repeating.

Niall: What time period were you talking about Pierre?

Pierre: We are talking basically 6th century AD.

Niall: Okay

Pierre: The fall of the Roman Empire, the restoration of Europe, basically, then the recovery around 950 and the rise of the Catholic Church, from 1000 to 1700, and from 1700 you have the relaying of the minds. The dominant paradigm shifts from Catholic obscurantism to scientism, this Neo-Darwinism linear uniformitarian event-less mechanistic vision of the universe that erased, that ignores the most important components of our environment and totally de-correlates human affairs from cosmic events.

Niall: It's not just the people are filled with wrong data in which to work from, it corrupts them in a way, that they are no longer able to simply observe what they see with their own eyes. Their beliefs are clouding what is there in front of them. It's even worse than getting a wrong education and being misinformed. It's almost like you are not seeing what is there.

Joe: We are kind of running down on time here. I just wanted to maybe change track a little bit towards something to mix it up; something more geopolitical in nature. What have you got for me, Niall? What's been going on in the geopolitical stage over the past week? Well the big one, obviously, is what is going on in Egypt. There were 200 people killed.

Niall: Or more.

Joe: Well, 200 according to the military dictatorship of al-Sisi but according to the Muslim Brotherhood, 4,500 is the figure thrown out and that seems to be a bit exaggerated as well. Maybe it's somewhere in the middle.

Niall: It's exploded and it's kind of predictable.

Joe: It's hard to reconcile from a couple of years ago when Mubarak was thrown out and the whole popular revolution in Tahrir Square and getting rid of Mubarak, who was a crony of the Americans, Israelis, and was not really serving the people in any way what so ever. He was a long term dictator and a member of the corrupt wealthy elite. So they got rid of him and it took a couple of years but it seems that there kind of back in the same position with a different figurehead now, this General al-Sisi. Like so many other people in various countries; especially in the middle east, he is a veteran. He attended...

Niall: School of Americas.

Joe: Well, the US War College which basically is a school. It's like a war university, type of thing, where various diplomats and officers, not only from the US but also from different countries, go to be instructed on war essentially and how to control people and how to lead or govern people essentially. Just on my understanding of the situation, the US, obviously, is still providing aid to Egypt despite this being, essentially, a military dictatorship or a military coup and officially under some obscure US law, they are not allowed to provide aid to any country that has undergone a coup but they are continuing to do so because they are calling it a coup that's not a coup; a military coup, that is not really a military coup.

Niall: It's a farcical situation where they are carefully framing the rhetoric, to not use the word coup because that kicks in a clause which then disbars the US government, by its own regulations, from sending military aid which amounts to 1.5 billion per year.

Joe: And they want to continue to do that but also the Saudis are backing him in a big way but there is very little room to choose between the Saudis and the Americans, and also Israel, obviously; in the fact that they are pretty much right on Israel's border. Israel has always been very much interested in who is ruling or governing in Egypt, being such a big country in the Middle East and obviously a threat. Because obviously, Israel has done it with every single other country around it, in the Middle East, because they are all Arab, mostly Muslim, and Israel is obviously under threat there from all of these other Muslim countries, that it planted itself in the middle of based on stealing Palestinian land and continuing to abuse an Arab Muslim population. Obviously it's got a serious vested interest in making sure that the natural reaction of countries and people around it, which would not be happy with Israel; they have a vested interest in making sure they keep that under wraps by installing or making sure that certain people in power are in power, in those various Muslim countries, to not allow the natural expression of the local population which would be anti-Israel, in the end.

Pierre: And elsewhere there are also, in addition to the Jewish political factors, the historical factors; the 1967 Yom Kippur war and the eschatological factors, like in Deuteronomy, that says Israel will eventually bring into submission the seven nations. Egypt being one of those seven nations. So there's geopolitics, history, and eschatology that combine to serve Israel's interest.

Joe: Well, it's kind of interesting because Israel was happy with Mubarak and Mubarak was essentially secular. This new general, al-Sisi, is more of an Islamist but Israel appears to be okay with him because it's not the fact the he is an Islamist, but that as long as he is an authoritarian Islamist who would be using Islam to keep the people down and therefore maintaining proper, friendly - according to Israel - relations with Israel that they don't care what flavor or color he comes in, as long as he is controllable.

It's the same with the US and the Brits. Over the past 50 or 100 years, they found common cause throughout the Middle East and near Asia, with fundie right wing Islamist type characters than they have with any kind of social progressive, liberal or whatever you want to call it, open minded, and essentially, people who are interested in the truth and justice. But I found it interesting that the School of America; a little tidbit of the School of America is that the US War College was established on the principles learned in the Spanish American War, of 1888, and one of the defining aspects of the Spanish American War was the sinking of the USS Maine and that was one of the early false flag events so you have this US War College setup to train officers and diplomats, from the US and from other countries, in the art of being leaders, and it's founded on the principles of the Spanish American War which was obviously launched on the bases of a false flag attack. So, I wonder what kinds of programs they have going on there, for these diplomats to attend in the US War College. False flags 101.

Pierre: It's interesting, as well, to see how those oligarch leaders bend realities, bend words to make it fit to their perception and objectives and interests. For example, the line of force; does it serve my interest or not. That is only what matters in the minds of those people, obviously. If the coup serves their interests they will talk about it as a popular revolution to help the people get their freedom. If the coup doesn't serve their interests, they will label it terrorist coup d'état.

Joe: Evil military dictator takes over.

Pierre: Insurgency and dictatorship etc. That's quite a fascinating use of language.

Joe: I just call it: hypocritical scumbags.

Niall: Yeah, to hear the US, from a distance, pleading for peace on both sides of the divide while they are sending them so many weapons. What I want to sort out in my mind is how Mubarak is kicked out by a popular uprising with help, possibly, from other interested parties. Egypt is welcomed into the noble club of free democracies and had its first democratic elections in 19+ years, or longer, 40 years I think. But one year later, Morsi is the democratically elected Prime Minister or President and then... what? There was another popular uprising to remove him because he was not acting on the will of the people, supposedly.

Joe: He was trying to be too Islamist, according to most people, but it is hard to know whether that was genuine. He was being too "authoritarian" etc. but that episode for me smacked of manipulation and that was incited as a way to give the opportunity to the military and al-Sisi, to actually come in say: "Okay we are taking control here because there is unrest." Just manufacture some unrest and say for the good of the country we are going to step in as an interim government but in the process, then all of the people who see that as the manipulation that it was; the Morsi supporters go out into the streets and they just gun them down.

Niall: Part of what they will learn in War College is the art of counterinsurgency. And a classic tactic, we've seen it over and over, is sending out snipers to shoot people, at random, in the head preferably, and we have video footage of that happening throughout the last two or three years in Egypt. The Egyptian Army is able to say "We have no idea who those gunmen are" and the spokesman saying that may actually be anyone. He may have plausible deniability there.

Joe: Start a third party acting; a third force.

Niall: Yeah, there is always a third party. I think, like any country, Egypt has what you might call a deep state, a real wealthy oligarchy for which even Mubarak, before Morsi, was a front man. They were happy for him to be the public face so long as he plays ball.

Joe: I think it was set up by the Brits basically because it's the same kind of thing, the Brits having been involved in Egypt for so long; I think that deep state you were talking about, that deeper and higher level of elites that are running things from behind the scenes. They are all basically old colonial boys, even if they are Egyptian. They ascribe to the old tenants of the British Empire, that arrogant, racist view; at that point it's not Muslims against Christians or whites, blacks, browns, yellows or whatever; it's we the elites against the people of any shade, of any color.

Pierre: Exactly.

Joe: And that's who is behind the scenes there in Egypt and it's unfortunate.

Pierre: And that's why you see so many speeches and mediatization of fake dualities, fake divisions in our society: black versus white, man versus woman, unemployed versus the employed, private employees versus public servants, Muslims against Christians etc., etc. while the only real division, duality, in our society is the elite, this 0.1% versus...

Joe: The psychopathic elite.

Pierre: ...the rest of the people. All the rest is only illusion and diversion.

Joe: Yeah, it's an attempt to divide and conquer.

Niall: There are snakes in our midst. Speaking of snakes; most of these stories I found last week... there have been so many, another one from this week: "Snake Slips out of French Postal Packet", "Australian police find a 5.7 meter python in Queensland store or shop".Just bizarre headlines!

Joe: It came from France?

Niall: Possibly. "A Python holds up traffic on an expressway near Birmingham in the UK". "A Bordeaux man finds a 2 meter snake in his car". "An escaped python kills two kids in New Brunswick in the US". "A 14 foot Burmese python is found in a Florida shed, eating local cats".

Pierre: I see.

Niall: "A large snake was discovered in Leicester, in a pond, in the UK". And the one from this week: "40 pythons seized from an Ontario motel room". I mean, they are all over!

Joe: So, when you look at our reality from a symbolic point of view, what is that saying? I don't know, it's saying: snakes among us?!

Pierre: Yeah.

Niall: And/or, I think snakes would have been a prevalent symbol for comets as well.

Joe: In the past.

Pierre: It was, yes. Even if you think about the more mundane explanation, over the past years, there have been this hype around reptilian types in general and snakes in particular, many more people have vivariums and snakes. The snake grows and grows and it's a pet now for more and more people. The problem is, that unlike dogs or cats, it grows a lot. Constrictors in particular can reach 5, 6 or 7 meters. Maybe the occurrence of those snakes, all around, is a consequence of that but in for instance the increase of interest by people for reptilians can be symbolic as well. Why, all of a sudden, do people want snakes to replace their cats or dogs.

Joe: But these stories are pretty interesting because either they are out there being advertised or they are being seen potentially by a large number people, so they are a good candidate for looking at it from a symbolic point of view. Of course, anybody who doesn't look at it from a symbolic point of view will say they are just coincidences.

It's no big deal but I mean the point is that there is a symbolic element to life and our reality and people should take notice of it because it can help you to essentially read the signs and see a deeper reality that is behind much of what goes on overtly on the planet because if you just look at the overt, straight up, and only the provable stuff on this planet, hard scientific stuff, you are going to go the way of mainstream science which is you are going to miss the salient point, the most important point.

Pierre: How does that saying go: "first the universe sends you an SMS [short message service], then gives you a call and puts a billboard in front of you; and if you still don't get the message, it makes the billboard fall on you."

Joe: Fall on your head, yeah and that's the step you want to avoid. You want to take notice of it before it falls on your head.
Anyway folks we've run out of time so we are going to end it there. Thank you for listening. Thanks to our caller and thanks to all of our chat room chatters that have been very informative and very active. That's always appreciated. We will be back next week with an action packed show on some topic, as yet to be revealed but we will try to make as interesting and informative as possible. So until then keep the faith.

Niall: Cheerio.

Pierre: Have a nice day.