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Broadcasting from deep in the heart of the American Empire, join your host Elan Martin, and fellow editors, as they discuss everything from current events and the latest machinations and manipulations of the global elite to history, science, and religion, and how it all fits together.

This week on The Truth Perspective Joachim Hagopian returns to discuss the biggest geopolitical developments we see in the world today. Always putting these events into broader context, Joachim's insightful analysis can be found on his blog American Empire Exposed, as well as his regular contributions to

He is also the author of a manuscript entitled Don't Let the Bastards Getcha Down which is an account of his experiences as a West Point graduate and former US Army officer. And has worked as a licensed therapist in the mental health field for nearly 25 years.

The Truth Perspective is brought to you by the SOTT Radio Network and, your one-stop source for independent, unbiased, alternative news and commentary on world events.

Live every Saturday from 2-4pm EST / 11am-1pm PST / 8-10pm CET.

Running Time: 02:07:00

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Elan: Welcome back. I'm Elan Martin. Along with me is my co-host Harrison Koehli.

Harrison: Hello.

Elan: And with us in the studio today are SOTT editors Caroline McCallum.

Caroline: Hi.

Elan: Shane Lachance.

Shane: Hi everybody.

Elan: And Mr. William Barbe.

William: Good afternoon everyone.

Elan: This week we are very happy to have with us Joachim Hagopian. Joachim is a licensed therapist and best known for his blog His blogs can be found in Veterans Today and he has in recent months been interviewed by RT and Press TV. Joachim is also the author of the excellent book Don't Let the Bastards Getcha Down which is a personal account of his experiences as a cadet at West Point Military Academy in the early 1970s. The book can be read on Joachim's website I just want to say about the book, I hope it gets published some time soon because it's a terrific read. But you can read it for free online.
In any case, welcome to the show Joachim!

Joachim: Well thank you. It's great to be here.

Elan: Excellent. So let's just jump right in. I have to say that after reading your book it became clear that your experiences at West Point must have been a kind of new lens from which you saw the world or a new way of seeing things, and must have informed much of what you write about today in your articles. I thought we'd just begin with you giving a description of what West Point is and how you came to go to school there, what your motivations were at the time and what you imagined your experience would be like.

Joachim: Sure. I grew up a young, idealistic kid. This was at the height of the Vietnam War. I entered West Point, I got a Congressional Appointment; I grew up in western Massachusetts, right outside of Springfield. I got the appointment and I was trying to follow in my father's military footsteps. He was a decorated war hero during World War II and the Korean War, spent 20 years as an officer and indoctrinated me from a very early age that I would serve my country and be a patriot. So I was steeped in that tradition and I felt "Well, that's my role in life," kind of like, with his dream, it wasn't mine, I thought it was mine at the time.

Then I entered West Point in July of 1969 and incidentally within the three or four weeks there, there were some rather major events that were going on the world. My senator, Ted Kennedy, did his little thing off Chappaquittick Bridge, unfortunately killing his passenger in a drowning incident. And there went the last son of Joe Kennedy's aspirations for another President. That happened probably at the end of July I think.

Also within a week of that, I think, was the lunar landing - of course there's a lot controversy about whether they actually were on the moon or somewhere out in the desert somewhere or in a studio or something - anyway, I got to watch that on the big screen as a new cadet at that time. I thought "Wow! America! Look what we're doing! Rah, rah!" Then about three weeks after that came Woodstock, which was not far from West Point actually, but I was a million miles away from the world of Woodstock in every cultural way.

So those were the events happening. I had a wakeup call from the very first day there because I realized their whole game is to just shock you with stress. It's kind of like "We make your life as miserable as possible to weed the weak ones out!" That's their game. They're screaming at you all day long. There was a lot of bullshit. I just endured and figured that this is my role, I must follow in my father's footsteps. But they do a brainwash there.

You come in, they have a lot of jocks from high school, a lot of bright young people, probably high egos from high school, and then they strip it all down so you're the lowest thing on earth. That's their game. And they give you all these rules and petty little mickey mouse crap and you have to jump through all the hoops. It is a very stressful time, especially during those first two months, July and August, before the academic year begins.

So if you manage to make it through that, then you go into the academic year as a freshman or what is known as a plebe or bean-head as they are called, and it's a very demeaning process. It's a brainwash. They get the cadets into jumping through all the hoops and believing that the rules are a good thing and we must follow the rules - they would always say, "In order to be a good leader, you have to become a good follower first".

From day one it was the wrong place for me, but I had this thing; I had to follow in my father's footsteps. It was a dream that I thought was mine. Well, it's very difficult. I was very outspoken that all they do is brainwash people into becoming followers and not really leaders. And I found that they reward the people that comply with the rules the most and then enforce the rules and make other peoples' lives worse... (bad audio) through demerits. I found it a very odd, broken system of training future leaders to run this country. I was outspoken. It's an inhumane, dehumanizing system that's totally unjust.

Like I say, I was very outspoken so by the end of my third year there I had a reputation as a troublemaker or rebel and in order to keep my sanity, I did break a few rules. So they decided to basically railroad me out of the academy at the end of my third year. Now had it been at the end of my first or second year, I would have just been able to get kicked out and move on with my life. But when I only had one year left to graduation, they actually did boot my demerits up to the allowable limit of 102 and I ended up with 107 - five over!- on a bunch of trumped up, false charges.

I was then committed to having to do four years, I believe, in the army starting as a private. So it was a command-conspiracy to begin with, which was very unfair, where the colonel said "Get these guys" - my roommate and myself - and they ran our demerits up in the last couple of weeks of the term and they kicked us out.

We went down to New York City. I had a law instructor in my junior year and I called him up and gave him the whole skinny on what was happening to us, that they were railroading us out, and he had a friend, Joan Goldberg in New York City who's an attorney, and she had some dealings with West Point before; I think she's handled a cadet conscientious objector case for him. So as soon as we were kicked out, my buddy and I went down to New York City and met with Joan and he opted out because it was an out-of-pocket expense. But my attitude was "I have to fight these guys because I'm not going to end up doing three years as a private when I have only one year left to graduation".

So I went ahead with charging West Point for failure to allow due process of law; one of our cherished rights that unfortunately under our Constitution is no longer upheld in this country. It's one of these lost civil liberties that we've always been guaranteed and have had since the Declaration of Independence.

So I did win my court case and became the first cadet ever to be kicked out and then win legally against West Point and be brought back. And I managed to graduate my final year out. I graduated in 1973. They had a rule at the time if your dad did 20 years in another branch of service, it's an automatic eligibility to graduate and be commissioned an officer in that branch of service. So all through my time at West Point I was planning on ending up an ensign in the navy upon graduation. Well, the Department of Navy in Washington called West Point about four days before my graduation and told West Point, "No, we're not taking this guy. He's a troublemaker and we don't want to him. You're stuck with him."

So at that point, so close to graduation, I was going to either be in the infantry or field artillery; putting "steel on the target" as they call it. So I was stuck in Portsville, Oklahoma. I continued - I was very honest. I said to the general there "You know, I think it was just a mistake that I even ended up at West Point and in your army and I think you're better off without me". They're not used to this kind of thing, especially a West Point graduate. So they started doing the same Mickey Mouse games as what they did at West Point, except instead of giving me demerit point (bad audio) where they build a case. They would actually be very blunt about it. "We're building a case against you for a dishonourable discharge."

The offences were really ridiculous; showing up for a class five minutes late or something - Article 15. So they'd taken away half my paycheque. I was living under the poverty level as a United States Army officer, simply because I was honest with them in saying it was a mistake that I was in the military. So I had to get another lawyer. They really do their best to break you and destroy you. That's the game. If you don't play their game, the game is they will try and destroy you. That's the way it is.

So I had to get another lawyer and I ultimately became a conscientious objector. I had already been doing so much soul searching. They would always make that comment "putting steel on the target" because that's the whole goal of field artillery, with the big guns. And that was a real hard one for me to think about because that target could be human! You could actually be killing humans. Obviously this is the backdrop of the Vietnam War. I was very fortunate, by the way, the year I graduated from West Point was the year that the last American soldiers returned from Vietnam, because they were training me as a forward observer. Those are the guys that go behind enemy lines and call in the artillery. Basically the casualty rate there in Vietnam for forward observers in field artillery was very, very high.

So I was very fortunate not to ever do that because I know that all the veterans who have had combat experience are forever changed. I think it changes the brain. Obviously the PTSD, post-traumatic-stress-disorder, is rampant, especially if you're involved in a war that is ultimately unjust, where there's senseless carnage, you see your buddies die in front of you, bleeding to death in your arms. It's so traumatizing. My father who was in combat of course in WWII on submarines, he had nightmares. He suffered from PTSD his entire life. I ended up taking care of him in the last three years of his life, from 2011 to November 2013, when he died at the age of 100 of dementia. He had nightmares all through his life. For over 70 years after his experiences in WWII, he still had nightmares. That's what war does to you. It messes you up for life.

I'm a committed activist, to teaching and to finding human resolutions to human conflicts. So it was a traumatic experience of about five-and-a-half years of torture for me, at West Point, and then in the army. I did finally manage to get an honourable discharge, but I had to call Senator Kennedy. They were not processing within the legal confines of 90 days (audio lost) Are you there?

Elan: We're here. We just got a little glitch there but keep going.

Joachim: Okay. So I had to contact Senator Ted Kennedy and notify him that they were illegally stalling the processing of my [conscientious] objector case. The very next day I was called in and I signed my honourable discharge form. So I beat the system again, because they were just gunning for a dishonourable discharge. So I did manage to extricate myself from this US Army.

Then I came out to California to seek my fame and fortune. For my own cathartic (bad audio) West Point and I wrote [my book] way back in 1976, I think. I was fresh out and I had the brass ring to reach out (bad audio) my West Point story way back then. I think I had a friend who had an entertainment lawyer and had an editor friend in New York, with William Marrow. William Marrow had been considering publishing - I think about four months, a long time, but they ultimately turned it down. This was 1976 I think and the military was a dirty word at that point with the whole aftermath of Vietnam. Of course Saigon fell in 1975.

So it was bad timing there. And then about a year or so later, I think it was actually (bad audio) late 70's, I ended up, through a friend who lived in the same apartment building with me in LA, his father was the living partner of Truman Capote and so he was able to get my manuscript over there to Truman. Truman doesn't mince words; he was very concise about his recommendations. He said: "You need to cut it by half. And you need to remove the axe to grind". Because I was all fresh; I was like a wounded warrior when I wrote the thing. And I had to justify my every move in the military. So it was kind of overwrought with anger against the system. It was very raw and fresh in my writing. So he said [in Truman's voice] "Do you have to do that? Set that aside."

It was kind of like re-living the trauma when I wrote it. It was like you hear that, "Oh God! I'm not ready for this!" I just let it sit. And it sat for several decades actually. I ended up going back to school, getting a degree in psychology, getting a life as a family therapist, and spent the next 27 years or so in the Los Angeles area, working in the mental health field, mostly with abused adolescents that were in the system, either taken away from their families of origin. I worked with a lot of kids. That was a very gratifying and humbling experience, as a healer, working with young people who had been dealt a really low blow in their early life.

I worked for about six years with adolescent girls, a lot of whom were sexually abused by male family members. So I became, in many of those situations, working with these girls, their first adult male that they might be able to trust. I had to work through a lot of defiance and anger, especially directed towards male adults. Therapy's all about: if the client has the sense that the therapist cares about them, there's a healing that goes on, just in and of itself by the relationship. And that's really what it was. I felt very grateful for being like a catalyst to heal these people who were really were severely abused, and to a great extent they began blossoming right in front of me. It was a wonderful experience to be a therapist out there working with the young population.

So I did that for many years and then in 2011 my father, as I said, was suffering from the final stages of dementia. And rather than just put him in a nursing home to die, which our family can't do, I decided to put my career on hold and take care of him. One positive that came of that is, while I was able to be a caregiver in the last few years of his life, I also would have the opportunity to begin writing. And at that point I kind of resurrected my West Point story and updated it. What I found is everything that was going on in the early '70s is a blueprint to all this crap that we see now. So I redid my West Point story to update it, to what's going on now, as well as keep the personal memoir part in there.

So I did that and then I decided there's so much going on in the world that's not good and there's so many lies and propaganda by our government; at that point I decided "I need to start writing about this". I was fortunate enough to connect with Dr. Michel Chossudovsky, the director of Global Research. And he gave me a break in saying "Okay, show me what you've got." So I started writing and my first article was on Ukraine. And I've been writing ever since.

I've got about 100 articles written, mostly with Global Research. For a while I was with Veterans Today. I found that there were a couple of articles that I'd written that Michel didn't want to touch. He runs a website. I consider it one of the more reputable, just like I think you and Global Research (bad audio). There's a few others but there aren't really many that I think are superlative at delivering the truth. It's very important to me that I'm working with the best.

So I connected with Veterans Today because they did accept some of my articles that Michel didn't. And then there was kind of a coup that went down in April at Veterans Today and I didn't like it. I didn't like what was happening with the editor there. He was firing Jim Fetzer, who I admire and respect. Here's my view: I think that Gordon Duff is a plant for maybe the globalists. He changed his tune all of a sudden in April and started firing people. He came down on this whole Jade Helm thing, "Oh no, it's just a simple little military enterprise. You're falling into the neocons' propaganda by reacting the way you are and making a big deal out if it". In fact he actually started censoring me too.

I had a trilogy that I'd written, I think it's posted with Global Research too, but I did a trilogy on three West Pointers; one of whom was my great-great-great uncle who was a Gettysburg hero, Gouverneur Warren. Another one was Colonel Ted Westhusing. He died in Iraq in 2005; I believe he was murdered. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence that shows that he was a whistleblower who was about to blow the whistle on the corruption going on in Iraq in 2005, under Petraeus. "Betray-us Petraeus". Boy, I have a full chapter on that guy! And I've written extensive articles on him too. And then another guy - he's probably got a blight against his name - but anyway, he was also likely murdered. He was becoming a whistleblower so they snuffed him too. Another West Pointer.

Anyway, I didn't like what was going on at Veterans Today. In fact Stu Webb and Chip Tatum were an integral part of Veterans Today and they got bounced and started their own Veterans Truth Network which I respect a lot more now than Veterans Today. So I think technically I'm still listed as a columnist but I do not submit my articles anymore to Veterans Today because I'm not a big fan of Gordon, to tell you the truth. So it's basically you guys and Global Research that I pretty much will submit my articles to. I think you guys are among the best and I'm going to stick with what I consider to be the best amongst the alternative news websites.

Shane: We appreciate that.

Caroline: Absolutely.

Shane: Thanks Joachim.

Caroline: It's good to hear.

Joachim: And I like the fact that you have that science orientation. That's kind of my weak spot. At West Point the hard science classes; thermodynamics and mechanics and engineering - I'm not geared that way. I consider myself more of an artist type; liberal arts and all that kind of stuff. I wrote that article recently on Niburu and the evidence that there is something out there; it's very evident that there are more comets heading in our direction. There's a lot that's probably going to go down in the next few months of 2015, and certainly 2016 is probably going to be another bang-up year as well.

It's pretty scary stuff going on in the world right now. So that kind of gives you an update on my life, my path and my pursuit of the truth. Basically, I just want the people to understand that their government, the federal government, is the enemy of the people, and the enemy of the whole world, of people of the world. You've got mad maniacs that are in charge here! I believe that they probably know that there's going to be a comet that's going to hit the planet, it's going to tilt the axis, it's going to change everything, and they've already made their plans underground! They've got all their luxury cities underground. They've got the highway. They've got the supplies to last several years underground-wise. And be damned to everybody else on the surface! I believe that's where they're at and I believe that's why they're so reckless about preaching the nuclear bomb, about just prodding Russia and China now into World War III. They don't give a shit! Can I say shit?

But anyway, they don't. They don't care about life! And they have their contingency plans. They're going to survive it underground. Who knows? Maybe with black ops and all the drug money they've squandered, maybe they have the technology they've stolen from extraterrestrials and maybe they have their contingency plan to have a space colony out there! Maybe they're already there? I don't know.

But it seems like they are so recklessly bent on destroying life on this earth, that there's a sense of urgency in my writing, like my last article Wake Up the Sheeple Before It's All Done, because then you can't do anything. So yeah, I'm kind of like a Paul Revere, trying to wake people up. It's not the British that are coming, it's the globalist police state that's here. They're already here and who knows? With this Jade Helm, there's a lot that's been speculated about it being an extraction taking place, of dissidents... I know that that's coming. Whether it'll happen during the Jade Helm exercise, right after the Jade Helm exercise or six months later, that I cannot say for sure.

But I can almost say for sure that they will probably be doing roundups, soon, of the American people, and killing them. I believe that it's quite likely that we're going to see some false flag terrorist acts. And I believe that it could come from ISIS. There are several scenarios that are likely and it could probably happen in September or October. There's been a lot said out there on the internet about September and October, and maybe it's kind of a bandwagon effect too, and I don't want to be jumping on the bandwagon either. But it's just kind of leaning toward that, with the tempo of unfolding false flag events so far in 2015, in part because of the economy that we have.

I think there's something big that is probably brewing and I'm anticipating it's the big bubble-popping around September or October of this year. And it could be like a cyber attack, and suddenly you can't draw money from your ATM or go to the bank or pump gas. There could be all kinds of scenarios. And Homeland Security has been preparing for this. The last words of Janet Napolitano was: "Oh, something big! Oh, something big's going to happen!" She was saying both from cyber attacks as well as natural disaster attacks. "Something big! We've got something big here in store for you guys!" Those were her parting words as the Homeland Security director.

It's just the tempo of all these crazy events. I think it's going to be a bumpy ride for the next six months here in terms of their scheming.

Caroline: That's a succinct roundup.

Harrison: Yeah. Like you said, regardless of whether it happens with Jade Helm or not. Just looking over the past couple of years and just the regularity with which these false flag attacks have been happening all over the world, they're not going to change their game plan any time soon. So it's just a matter of waiting until the next one. Your latest article, The Globalists Are Racing To World War III Before The American Sheeple Wake Up, you gave a rundown of all the events and dynamics taking place in 2015 so far. We had the Charlie Hebdo in France; then the Charleston shooting just recently in South Carolina; ISIS going crazy in Syria, Iraq and Africa, and then the Jade Helm; Russia and China; the TPP. And now we've just had recent developments in Greece. So it looks like there's a whole lot of stuff happening and that will precipitate even more global events. It's just been a wild ride this last year and these past 15 years, ever since 9/11 and we can go back further than that.

Joachim: Yeah. I think it's real important, the old expression: "If you don't learn from history you're just doomed to keep repeating the same errors". And there's a lot of truth in that because the globalists have been around for over a century. If you want to go back to the Rothschild family and the whole central banking in the world and all this, they've been running wars and the present economic system for centuries. Of course it took hold in 1913 mostly in this country. They were running a central bank and then they installed the privatized central bank of the federal reserve board and then income tax.

For over 100 years they've been gunning for this one world government. And they devised the whole Cold War thing, the communists versus the west. It's all just one grand manipulation by a handful of demonic people that are control freaks, absolute control freaks, and they want control over every human being on the earth. Oh and they want us dead too! Thirteen out of 14 of us! They want to kill 6.5 billion of us, leaving anywhere from half a billion to one billion, maybe, at the most. That's a lot of us that they have to process; in other words, murder us.

And I believe that's what's in store for humanity. There's going to be a grand human genocide. It's not going to be any particular group. It's the whole human population except for the docile worker bees. They're going to have a half billion little slaves that will cater to their every whim and everybody else is dead; leaving this handful of megalomaniacal psychopaths. That's the game plan. And it looks like 9/11 was kind of a coup and a pivotal point where all of a sudden they went into the acceleration mode. They took away our constitutional rights, just in the last dozen years. And wars; permanent war, permanent war, forever war on terror. And of course they go around making new enemies every day with their drone strikes and crazy special operations, the black ops. We're just creating more enemies, more people that hate America. And what's sad, we the people of America are not our government. It's like an international crime cabal.

I believe that we already have a one world government and it's all corporatized. It's been taken over by globalists and they have their pawns, who are the Obama's and other leaders of the world and their governments; they are the pawns.

Elan: Joachim, I think William had a question for you about this.

Joachim: Okay.

William: I wanted to go back to your article about WWIII. There are a lot of conflicts around the world and it almost seems to be like we've already entered WWIII. What do you think about that?

Joachim: Well, certainly, with all the preparation that is going on with the training exercises, just about every nation on earth now has their military involved in live training exercises. So I think the massive carnage in some places. Obviously, in Ukraine it's still raging; in Syria it's still raging. There are hotspots in probably half a dozen places where death is a daily occurrence. I think that Gaza's still pretty bad; violence still going on there, I believe, even though it's supposedly, technically, not like it was last summer.

I believe there's death in a lot of places. And you don't even hear about it. They just conceal so much information from us. It's up to us on the internet and the alternative media to try and dig and find out the truth. They're constantly barraging us with propaganda and disinformation. Yeah, I think you can make a case probably that the world war is happening already because there's so many hot spots where death is occurring and militaries are facing off against each other. I think it's going to take some kind of major false flag event, in America, where unfortunately a bunch of Americans are going to die. And I think that's probably going to jumpstart the war here. I believe that it probably will actually. We have rarely had war, other than the Civil War, on US soil, but I'm afraid that the upcoming war is going to actually be here in America too.

William: And one could even make the case that we're having an economic war as well. It's not just a military type of thing.

Joachim: That's true! It's like the perfect storm of everything that we see going wrong in the process over the last few years. Everything is converging. There's going to be an implosion and an explosion at the same time, I think, when all of these things occur. And it's going to be utter chaos. It's a pretty scary thought about what's going on and you realise that so many sheeple aren't really paying attention yet.

Shane: It seems that the very nature of war has changed very much over the past century, particularly in the past decade or so. What we're seeing isn't nations against nations so much anymore, where there's an armed military force against another armed military force, but has really become a war on people, like you were saying a little earlier.

Joachim: Yeah.

Shane: That the threat, whether it's this training for Jade Helm or other, it's all to train the military minds, the police minds, in every system, that the people are the threat.

Joachim: Yes, it's very alarming to think that law-abiding, good American citizens are now considered the enemy. They're the enemy of the state. We the truth seekers that expose the lies are the enemies of the state now. We are the home-grown terrorists. It's just insane! Everything is reversed. The government is the bad guy and the people that want justice and equality and all the constitutional civil liberties, we're the good guys, yet to the government, we're the bad guys now and we're probably going to be exterminated. It's just total madness! They've made the world upside down now and who knows, with the comets and everything else, it literally could be upside down with the shifting of the poles.

William: Yes, a case can be made for, whenever the world sees these kind of drastic changes in the way things are balanced, and the elite get out of control, that humans are being pounded, that there could be some earth changes and cosmic reactions from that.

Shane: And kind of touching on that, with this latest article you had on Niburu, SOTT kind of has the perspective that there could be this larger body, not necessarily Niburu but maybe a twin sun, and as this approaches, could these cosmic bodies be influencing people as well? In the past decade we've had the Y2K, and there was the 2012 Armageddon. We've had all these theories that the world was going to end in some way.

While there may be disinformation aspects in them, it does seem to reach people in a certain way; people maybe are sensing that something is off. You just have to look out the window and see just how nuts and chaotic the world is. I think it's understandable that people can latch on to some of these ideas. That underscores the work that we try to do at SOTT, figuring out what is going on because something definitely is going on.

Joachim: Yeah. What we do know is that NASA is not interested in revealing the truth as an extension of the government.

William: Never A Straight Answer.

Joachim: No, no. They're hiding the truth from us and I think that there are atmospheric changes; I think we're losing our magnetosphere, solar flare activity is awry; something big is happening out there in space and it's having a pretty major effect, obviously, on our planet, but even other planets, the other things going on out there. We don't have the confirmation of exactly what it is, but what we do observe are all these kinds of erratic changes; the weather effects are all crazy and more extreme. There's just so many changes on so many levels, it is kind of mind-boggling actually, just trying to wrap your head around all of this stuff. It's converging at the same time. It's a pretty amazing time we're living in. It's exciting but it's also very scary.

Shane: Just to get back to your West Point story, it reminded me of when I was in high school, I did a junior ROTC for the four years. I never really thought that I would want to go into the military but as I was getting ready to graduate I had to figure out what I was going to do. I grew up in the Hudson Valley which is 40 minutes away from West Point.

Joachim: Yeah, very close.

Shane: So that slowly became an option for me and I actually applied there - I was really putting a lot of my eggs in that basket too. Thankfully there was a lot of competition in that area, being in the West Point area, so I didn't get the nomination. But I did still get an ROTC scholarship at another school in Rhode Island. What was curious to me was finding that the same personality types that I saw in high school in the junior ROTC program, were also there in this program. At the time I didn't have the words to identify what these people were; now I'd call them authoritarian followers.

Joachim: Yes.

Shane: And I just expected, if I'm going to be surrounded by these people now and as I was in high school I can pretty much expect the same if I go in the military. That was one of the driving forces that made me finally quit. I had to sign a contract at the end of my freshman year and just weeks before that I quit.

Joachim: Congratulations. (laughter)

Shane: Thank you. Because if I had gone along with it I think I would have graduated in 2003 and that was the start of the Iraq war, so thankfully that didn't happen. But those personalities are interesting. And you write about that.

Harrison: I've got a quote from one of your articles Joachim that you wrote earlier this year Why the United States Always Loses Its Wars. I'm just going to read.
As a West Point graduate who went to school in the same regiment with surge man himself, former CIA Director and General David Petraeus, NSA Big Brother architect Keith Alexander and current Joint Chiefs of Staff General Martin Dempsey, I can attest to the inferior brand of leadership cranked out of the academy brass factory over the last half century. West Point trained and teaches robotic followers in the form of sycophantic, self-serving bureaucrat-politicians, not dynamic, caring, humanitarian leaders. Entrepreneurial, innovative, creative instincts are drummed out of cadet and officer corps by a failed, punch-your-ticket to seniority system that breeds a range of incompetence from run-of-the-mill mediocrity to highly toxic leadership.
I think you nailed it there. (laughter)

William: Yeah. Helpful.

Joachim: Yeah, I think that about sizes it all up.

Caroline: I've got a question that goes in kind of a different direction. So you went through the system, had a brutal time of it, so obviously you were sensitized to these kind of manifestations of toxic personalities. When you got out and you decided to go in a completely different direction, into psychology and being a therapist and counselling these kids, that sensitivity must have always been in the background. So when - did you just sort of go "Oh thank god I'm out of there and I'm going to do this now and I'm just not going to think about it anymore!", once you got the book out of your system and Truman kind of sat all over it? Were you always paying attention and looking through the lens of that template or is this something that resurfaced? And when did the idea of psychopathy come into the picture because there's been a really uphill battle - although it seems to be winning over now - to get people to be aware of that term and what it means and you seem to have melded them very well. So what was that process of identifying these behaviours that you had obviously been a victim of?

Joachim: Well psychopathy is rampant amongst the higher ranking officers. Of course it's amongst all the high-ranking, regardless of whether it's the economy, the corporate world, the government. They gravitate to these. And I believe that, to be at the top echelons of power, I believe it's a club, and I love Bill Carlin's take on that. But it's a club where you play by their rules and their rules are basically you're cutthroat and you'll do anything to get ahead and kiss the ass of your superiors. That's all the name of the game and just take your opponents out. And your opponent could be your mother that you're throwing under the bus. And lying pathologically. It's a sick, sick world! And this is the world of the people at the top. These are the elitists.

It's pretty incredible. When I left the military I really was traumatized. It was just a real pressured time, stress pressure experience non-stop for about five-and-a-half years.

Caroline: And you were very young at the time too. That's tough.

Joachim: Yeah. I was at the very beginning of adulthood. So I had to go through some growing pains. I extricated myself out of the military but psychologically I had to do a lot of soul searching to figure out, "Okay, now here I am. I'm in my mid-20's now and I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with the rest of my life". And actually, I got into astrology. I've been an astrologer for years and years now and that helped me as a tool for self-understanding, to get a sense of direction on where I should be going.

And I realized that I was always somebody that could have empathy and people would come to me with their problems; I was a natural good listener and could give positive feedback to people. So it's kind of a natural extension of my own development to actually get into psychology and ultimately have a career in mental health and ultimately be a healer. It was just natural for me. And that has been my true calling, I believe, beyond the dead end of the military. Thankfully it's over and I was able to develop myself. It was a great career. I'm no longer a licensed therapist. I have all the skills but I decided when I began as a caregiver for my dad, I moved back to Vermont. I lived in Vermont and now I'm in Arizona.

The stupid laws pertaining to the licensure as a therapist are different in each state. Each state has their own requirements. For me to become a licensed therapist here in Arizona I would have to basically be fresh straight out of college all over again. I've been a supervisor and a manager; I've run large mental health agencies in Pasadena, my last job there. I'm not going to start over, especially at my age.

Then I gravitated also, while I was a caregiver, to writing. The writing is my passion now. So it's part of the personal journey of developing yourself and your talents and your potential and I'm glad I think I found my niche as a writer and activist. And I'm very happy with that. I still have a part-time practice in astrology but it's secondary. The most important thing now is what we're facing in the world, all these challenges. So that's preoccupying me.

Elan: On the subject of your writing, a few weeks ago we published Toward a Global Force for Evil - One World Government Protected By One World Military.

Harrison: Just hold on a second. Let me see if I can do anything about this.

Caroline: It's annoying.

Joachim: Maybe it's the government trying to interfere.

Harrison: Okay, it sounds like it stopped. Okay, go ahead Elan.

Elan: Let's try that again. I was just mentioning that we carried that article Toward a Global Force for Evil - One World Government Protected By One World Military and one of the comments from one of the readers on SOTT was "Man, this hits hard. This is the most disquieting piece I've read in a long, long time". And when I read that comment, I thought "Good! This is disquieting stuff!" And to hear you describe it and your passion and also something of a mission, Joachim, it seems like your intent, which I think is correct, is to set off the alarm bells.

Joachim: Yes.

Elan: And it comes through in your writing and it comes through certainly in our conversation today. This is all real, imminent stuff. I'm just wondering if you have any thoughts on that and what is it that compels you to want to shake people on this larger scale? You want to work with the best people who are doing this on the web. You want to wake people up. There's this incredible amount of motivation on your part to make a difference. So where do you think that came from?

Joachim: I mentioned at the start of the program how I was a young idealist. Well now I'm an old idealist. I think we're born here on this earth to make a difference. I think to live a status quo life of comfort and insulating yourself from the pain out there in the world, it's the old expression (bad audio) that pain is going to come knocking on your door. It's time to basically embrace as one human family and get rid of those evil people that are destroying everything and fight it! You have to fight the evil that's controlling so much of our planet, and destroying so much of our planet.

I don't really see that there's a lot of choice. It's either that or we'll be among the walking dead. Among the moronic, robotic type people that are blind to reality. I just can't live that way. I never have been able to. If you don't have your integrity, you don't have self respect, you don't have a life! That's the way I look at it. So when I see things that are wrong, when I see deception and injustice, I can't just look the other way or pretend it's not happening. I cannot do that. I can't live with myself if I just pretend it's not happening. So yeah, I am an activist and I'm trying to wake people up. I would love to be able to be a catalyst, perhaps a leader for a grand, grassroots, worldwide citizens of the world movement for peace, for justice, for all the things that most of the people on this planet believe in. But they don't have the power.

So it's time for us to assert ourselves, and our good will toward other people on this planet and finally get rid of those evil ones that for centuries have been calling all the shots. It's time for them to go. They're a sub-human species and I just think it's a broken system and their time is done now, I think! And yes, there's going to be a lot of growing pains as we go into this heavy time, where there's ultimately going to be a transformation on this earth that's going to take place.

I'm an idealist today believing that no, I might not make it myself. I might not live to where the whole earth and human condition is turned around. I might not make it. But I'm committed to doing whatever I can within my power, to be a catalyst for positive change. As we go through this rather difficult transformation period, I'm just going to do my best to make it to the other side where we live in a better world, a just world. But I'm going to keep yelling from the mountaintops and trying to get people onboard, to collectively make the changes that are necessary to defeat the evil that's still in control and taking the world down.

Harrison: That's great to hear. I think we have the same kind of (bad audio). It seems to me that that's really the only thing we can do and that we need more people doing the same thing. Because the way things are on this planet, the systems of control in economy, government, religion, they're just so entrenched and they've been around for so long that these guys and women in power - they have so much control because of the inertia of the system. And it seems like it's almost impossible to break. We've seen these kinds of conflicts between what's going on in the east, with Russia and China and BRICS trying to offer this alternative view of how to do international relations and just running their own countries. Just to look at the amount of obstinacy and blockages that they run up against in encountering the American empire. It seems like it's just such an uphill battle.

This is where I think that maybe whatever comets may be coming this way, may have a positive function in possibility to bring down - or would we even want to bring down the system? Maybe that'll happen naturally. And the loci of civilization will just be eradicated. And we have some more interference.

Caroline: I'm curious to see how you might envision this happening, this change, this shift, these people banding together and removing...[interference again]

Harrison: Hold on one second Joachim. I'm going to just try something here. We're going to have silence for just a couple of seconds. Okay, how's that?

Joachim: Sounds good.

Harrison: Okay, go ahead Joachim.

Joachim: Everything has been moving for centuries now towards centralization; the Big Brother control through technology. And everything is centralized. And obviously that's their goal - one world government, everything is centralized. So we have to go in the opposite direction. We have to de-centralize. We have to localize. That's where it's at. I really believe in community-mindedness and becoming more resourceful at the community level; coming together and growing your own food. That's going to be the key to survival, obviously, having a fresh supply of nutritious food. There are communities and cooperatives around the nation and probably around the world, where they are taking their lives in their own hands and working with the soil as a community, and coming up with an alternative to the corporation, the grocery store, the big chains, where everything is centralized.

So I think that's just an example of the direction that we need to take. We need to localize and become as resourceful as possible at the community level. It needs to be with food but also -. the state of North Dakota has their own bank. I think that's what we need to do too. We need to decentralize and localize at every level, bartering, everything, have our own currency. These are really important things. I think that as more invest in these entrepreneurial directions of how to become more resourceful at a community and local level, as this becomes widespread information that will be exchanged with communities around the world, I think there really is going to be a grassroots movement, in the right direction.

And to think that six conventional oligarchs control over 90 percent of our mainstream media, but nobody's paying attention to it anymore! Everybody realizes that they're just an extension of the propaganda department for the government. I believe also there can be economic boycotting that can be effective. There's a lot of things we can do. But I have a major concern with the TPP. They're going to try and take away the internet because they realize that's the independent news source that people are tuning into for their truth. And truth is the enemy to the state.

So with the TPP there's a whole chapter basically on neutrality and accessibility of the internet as an information tool and a communication tool. I believe that they're going to try and take that down and, obviously, there's already provisions with executive orders that dictator Obama will pretty much take down the internet, during martial law.

So that's the urgency and the race part. They're trying to get all this destruction in before the people wake up and start networking and having a coalescing of power that really coming together on a worldwide scale. They're deathly afraid of that! So there is a race. The bottom line is: are you for life? Meaning you extend your hand to another human being to embrace life and affirm life; or are you for death, for destruction, for evil?

I'm not a black and white person, and I think black and white thinking is a gross distortion of reality because generally, life is made of shades of grey rather than black and white. But really, fundamentally, it is. It's a black and white issue of are you for life or are you for death? And if you're part of the current system - it's for death! That's the only thing it's about. And it's as simple as that! They want a lot of us dead! So it's up to us to fight back for life. And I think the unifying process in and of itself is empowering. We've got a big challenge ahead that we need to work together on.

But I believe we also have an advantage in numbers. If we can get the world citizens out there, the 7.2 billion of us, or even just half of that or even less than that, onboard as committed activists, oh, we can really make some changes in a much faster way and certainly far less destructive way than the direction that the system is headed.

Harrison: Have you read the book Political Ponerology?

Joachim: No I haven't. I am familiar with that though.

Harrison: Okay. In the book the author Dr. Andrew Lobacziewski is going in the same direction and the point that he makes is that that will only be possible - and by that I mean unifying people from all these wide ranges of cultures and countries - because what they unify around is the idea that the conflict isn't between Russians and Americans but that what it really comes down to is that within every country the so-called enemy is the same, and it is psychopaths. And when people unite around that idea that we have more in common around the world, these billions of people, we have more in common with each other than we do with the people that rule over us. That can unify nations across boundaries and across borders. But without that knowledge it's just so easy to create this divide and conquer strategy between entire peoples.

So we see that playing out all the time where there are these false divisions created and these false conflicts when what's really going on, like you said, there's a world government here already and it is because these people are all the same. They're all part of the same club. They all have the same death culture and death outlook on life.

Caroline: Death for everyone but them.

Harrison: Yeah. So we really need to get that idea across to people, that these guys are the problem and it's not about different countries. It's not about what flag you wave and what colour you skin is or anything like that. It's deeper than that. It's a fundamental difference between humanity and this sub-species of humanity, these psychopaths.

Joachim: Yeah. I think that's another approach that can be made to help us unify, definitely, because I think it's pretty evident that to be a member of those highest echelons, you have to be in that psychopathic club and if you're not, you're going to be kicked out. And that's part of the screening process that they do. To some extent the old nature/nurture argument, I think the environment can play a part in shaping a potential for psychopathy, but I think it's almost innate, where people have a born tendency. Certainly the system is set up; if you want to rise up and end up a politician or a general or something, the system is all set up where if you have the innate tendencies and potentialities of becoming a psychopath, you're certainly going to develop it as you make your ambitious conquests in your career, going up the ladder of power.

Harrison: Yeah, I think you should check out the book Ponerology because he gets into this too. I think there's more variety. I definitely think that there is a certain type of psychopath that is totally innate. The only way nurture or the environment might affect these psychopaths is just simply what environment they're born in. So if they're born into some poor environment they might become just a common criminal but if they're born into a rich high-class environment, they'll become a board director a politician or a military general or something like that.

And then there are those who are just more susceptible than others to this kind of influence. So their character, their personality, becomes deformed enough to the point where they become almost indistinguishable. They're part of the club. They're not quite the full deal. But then there are probably a majority of people where that would never happen. They could never deform to that extent and become part of that system. So I think there's a few different categories and different types of phenomena going on there.

Joachim: I'll definitely check out that book. I knew of it, but I just haven't had much time. But when I'm in Bali I will.

Elan: All this reminds me of Madeleine Albright being interviewed on 60 Minutes about all the sanctions from the US's side towards Iraq in the '90's under the Clinton administration and Leslie Stahl the interviewer asking her: "Was it worth the lives of 500,000 children?" And without batting an eye, she said something like "Yes, we believe it was." You see this very 'stately' lady in this high position of power who speaks well and is dressed nicely and basically another part of this whole process is, is that people are hearing this with no critical understanding of precisely how evil these statements are.

Harrison: What she's actually doing is revealing just how inhuman she is and some people watching just won't make the connection.

Caroline: It's cloaked in statesmanship.

Harrison: Just wait. I want to pay a clip of Obama from a few days ago. It's really short. It's not quite as good as the Albright one or the Hillary Clinton one where she's laughing about the murder of Gaddafi, but this is just a nice little slip of the tongue from Obama. It kind of gives me hope that no matter what kind of censorship comes out there's always going to be a little bit of truth-telling that comes out unintentionally. So here's the clip:
...was moving too slowly but the fall of Ramadi has galvanized the Iraqi government so with the additional steps I ordered last month, we're speeding up training of ISL forces including volunteers from Suni tribes and in Anbar province.
Joachim: Yeah, the truth comes out. (laughter)

Harrison: On the US government website with the transcript of that talk they didn't quite adequately fix it so instead of just bracketing out ISL and replacing it with something else, they said "So we're now training ISL [Iraqi forces]." So even their fix made it look like the US is training Iraqi ISL forces. It's just ridiculous.

Joachim: Yeah, there's so much overwhelming evidence of them being 'our' - I say 'our' when it's actually the US government, very different from me - but anyway, being the US government paid mercenaries, boots on the ground, for the proxy wars around the world. They're almost like our special operations. The thing is, it's expanding all over the world; you've got the Boko Haram in Nigeria, the Al-Shabaab in Kenya and Somalia. It's spreading and it's a network that's created by the crime cabal international government.

I made that point also when I was talking about Charlie Hebdo I believe, in my last article in the first couple of paragraphs. I was talking about how amazingly deceptive they are. They're marching hand-in-hand - a million-plus people there - and all the leaders of the world arm-in-arm - "Oh yes! They want our freedom!" And those are the evil ones that have actually created all the terrorism around the world! They did Hebdo and they've got this "Oh, we're so righteous and we're together!" Oh, it's just nauseating, the level of toxic deception and just poison that they put out. It's like a pus coming from their lips! If you're aware of anything, you can get really upset at the insanity and the evil that they sink to.

Elan: If you tried to explain this to anybody who doesn't have the most basic understanding of what a psychopath is for instance - it's so diabolical and it's existing at such a grand scale - that you almost have to shout above everybody's breath to call attention to all of this. It's like you were saying before, it's completely mind-boggling.

Joachim: They have been dumbing down Americans for so long with all the chemicals in the foods and the pills people take, the big pharma toxins wrecking their brains, the poor public education system now with the common core crap. It's just profit and they don't teach people to have discriminative minds, to have a critical mind, to assess the truth. Like I say, they brainwash people into becoming robots. They do it literally at West Point, but they do it on a grand scale in our public education system to our young.

They have their little gadgets and the kids have got their toys and their video games. They're oblivious to all the destruction that's going on in this world. Unless a bomb goes off on their street or in their house or something, they're totally asleep. They're in la-la land with their little fantasy world of their toys. Everything's a diversion. Everything is just propaganda. The sleight of hand and "We're going to do all this in secret and you're not going to ever know about it" while "Over here! Pay attention to this little stupid stuff." Kim Kardashian and another wardrobe malfunction. "Oh, we've got to tune in on that one!" It's really nauseating to see how dumbed down and ignorant people are.

And that's another big challenge that we face, is not only trying to uncover the truth about the evil ones in control, but trying to just wake up people to the reality of what's going on. I try to be an optimist and I do believe that they tune out the mainstream media, the NBC/CNN, all that kind of stuff, there are a lot of people that are not watching that stuff anymore. Their information about the world does not come from a lot of mainstream media. So that's a coup in and of itself. They're seeking information about the world through the internet and these sites like right here. And that's a very positive and encouraging find, that more and more people every day, that I deal with, are becoming fed up and (bad audio) becoming The Network, which I think is the movie of the ages for how evil everything is now. That [Paddy] Chayefsky is something else as a writer, I'll tell you. That's such a gem of a movie.

But there's more and more people waking up and they're mad as hell and they're not going to take it. There's more and more people that are joining this kind of site and talking about it. So I have to be somewhat optimistic. The masses are not so dumbed down that we don't have a chance to wake people up. I do believe that there are more and more people that are coming on to the truth about what the evil people are doing.

If I believed that we had no chance, I would be very depressed. (laughter) It would be hard to get up and out of bed every day if you think that "they already won, we can't do anything, this impotence, this powerlessness". And that leads to depression by the way. So you can't go there. You have to think in terms of the good things that we are able to accomplish and embrace that and become more inspired and motivated to keep working, educating and informing people, and activating people. So that's what it's all about at this point.

Elan: Well at one point in one of your recent articles Joachim, was another one of these interesting factoids that came from Fox News, of all places. It was about the navy FA team pilot flying over Iraq or Syria stating how difficult it was for him to get clearance to kill ISIS soldiers that he had in his sights. He said: "I had groups of ISIS fighters in my sights but couldn't get clearance to engage. They probably killed innocent people and spread evil because of my inability to kill them." What do you do with a fact like that? It just doesn't make any sense. The bureaucracy cannot be that bad. It has to point to the fact that, like you were saying earlier, ISIS and others of these forces are basically our guys. It's a theatre.

Joachim: Yeah.

Elan: So how long is going to be before people realize this fact I wonder.

Joachim: Well, I think it's going to probably be realized when ISIS moves eight miles and crosses the United States border into America and then does some kind of false flag terror crisis event where it kills Americans. I've already seen these lone wolves who claim that they're ISIS; the incident in Garland a couple of months ago. I think everything is fake basically. As far as the shooting where the two guys were killed, they were actually from Arizona, the supposed ISIS members. There's a training camp with the drug cartel in Mexico eight miles from the border, right near El Paso, Texas.

And then there are recruiters of ISIS. Twenty-five thousand westerners have joined ISIS just since June a year ago. (bad audio) for ISIS. It is pretty amazing that we've got all the advanced technology and our weapons technology that, if 'we', the government, really wanted to eliminate them, it could be done in a month or less. But obviously there's no political will to do that because they serve a very important function for the globalists.

Shane: You mentioned that there were recruiters on college campuses. The first thing that goes through your mind is how can that happen? How can westerners who are constantly bombarded with these terror threats and this nonsense, engage in these things? It reminded me of Mark Dice. He goes to different areas and does surveys or questionnaires. In one of them he was on a college campus and his petition was to support ISIS and he was getting plenty of signatures.

I think it goes to the fact that so many Americans are just tuned off to everything that's actually happening in the world. You might have a percentage of people who do read the news and then you have that percentage of people who are looking towards alternative media. This brings up another topic of disinfo within the alternative media. It's something that you've written a little bit about in one of your articles Pentagon's Operation Jade Helm - The floodgate towards martial law and WWIII. You write:
A major strategy the federal government commonly uses to discredit alternative media is planting disinformation within its ranks. Government moles have infiltrated the so called independent online media, intentionally muddying the waters so murky as to obscure the facts.
This is something that we see constantly. SOTT has been online for over ten years and it's just been having to build it up brick by brick. I think that the alternative media really is infiltrated quite a lot with disinformation and agents and useful idiots and so on. I was wondering if, since you've started writing, you've had experiences with that?

Joachim: Yeah.

Harrison: Can you hear us Joachim? So did you hear the question?

Joachim: I didn't hear the question, no.

Shane: I was just wondering if you had any experiences with disinformation in the alternative media?

Joachim: I have not had direct experience although I mentioned earlier with Veterans Today, with Gordon Duff, the head editor; I think he could possibly be a disinformation tool himself. So I guess that's my most direct experience. By him saying "Oh, there's nothing to worry about with Jade Helm. If you're reacting like this is some kind of assault on our states and martial law and all of it "Oh, you're just spreading the propaganda for the neocons". That's how he came off. So yeah, I think he might be a disinformation tool himself. There's plenty of them out there. There's all kinds of sites where I really do think that they're purposely deceiving the people, trying to lead them astray.

First of all, people are not critically minded and to real seek out the truth, unfortunately it isn't given to you on a platter. You have to almost work at it like doing homework. You do your cross-checking, things that are hyperlinked or on footnotes. You have to really do some work. It shouldn't be this way, but that's the way it is. So it requires you to go out of your way with extra time and effort to seek out as much as you can possibly (lost audio) ... They want to negate this power by muddying the waters, as I said, and causing people to go (audio) but they won't. And that gives (lost audio) completely disempowered and easily manipulated and controlled.

That's their game. And so it's up to us to do our best, to actually be telling the truth with what we do put out and that it's as accurate and close to the truth as possible. Very important.

Harrison: We've had our suspicions about certain websites and individuals and we've posted a lot of articles and investigations on the kinds of conclusions that we've come to. To name names of people we haven't been very big fans of either: Alex Jones, Jeff Rense or even Gordon Duff; we've had other problems with some of the stuff he's written. It seems to me at least, a lot of what he writes is sensational in the sense that he'll make these big claims without backing them up in any sort of checkable way, just bald statements about his 'intelligence sources' and "this is going on and that's going on". None of it ever seems to pan out.

So I've had that problem with him for as long as I've been reading him. We can trace one aspect of this whole phenomenon back to 9/11. Even just before 9/11 and afterwards it would be natural if the government or whoever, these intelligence agencies, working a big event, that they've got to prepare the ground. They're going to know that there are some people that are going to be looking into it so they've got to (audio) the problem before it even starts and then manage it once it does start. So it's just a logical conclusion that this is going to be the state of affairs whenever we're getting into something like this where you're looking into gross misdeeds and crimes from intelligence agencies or governments.

But it even goes back further than that and you can find the aspects of the Cointelpro operations with the anti-war movement and even if you look into the field of UFO researchers. The grassroots organizations that started to look into the UFO reports, from the very beginning were infiltrated by CIA and even openly CIA people. So you had some just openly ex or current intelligence agencies and then you had the secret guys working under cover and it's been like that ever since.

So we've had this disinformation in all kinds of fields, related to government secrecy or just covering something up that they don't want, for generations now. It boggles my mind that some people won't go there even within the alternative field, that they can't accept when you say someone might be an agent and it's like "Oh, you can't say that. That's mean". Well, just grow up and look at reality. This is something we've got to deal with and something we've got to be aware of and open to and research and look into because otherwise what happens? Well these kind of Cointelpro operations are designed to lead people in false directions in order to keep them...

Caroline: Busy.

Harrison: Busy and not a problem. Neutralized.

Caroline: And the thing is too that when you speak of agents here, I think it's really important to make the qualifier that you don't have to be a conscious agent; you don't have to be somebody who's checking in with your handler once a month and he gives you your directions and off you go to do your thing.

Harrison: But that does happen.

Caroline: It does happen, absolutely. But the concept of agents, at least in this application, can be a lot broader. People do get cultivated by somebody who seems to be on their side and so the disinformation gets more and more broadcast and more and more people pick it up and pretty soon it's propagated through the target audience. It's kind of like what they talked about with the Gestapo. Everybody thought the Gestapo was everywhere and now that documents have been declassified, you find out that in any given little village that they've been running, there might only be two or three actual Gestapo agents and the villagers themselves were doing the work. I think it runs kind of like that.

Harrison: Yeah, it's kind of the way that the FBI recruits ISIS members or Al-Qaeda members but these guys have no idea what they're really getting into and so you've got a real agent or a CI or some kind of undercover dude that basically radicalizes and indoctrinates and recruits these often mentally ill or just not very bright guys, to get into this plot that they're hounded or coerced into doing. It's total entrapment. So they end up getting a lot of money and maybe some weapons provided by the FBI conveniently and the whole operation is conceived of, planned, paid for, entirely by the FBI. That's why I think the FBI should be charged with terrorism and they should all be locked up.

Joachim: Yeah. CIA and FBI are definitely bodies of terrorists. They are. They're terrorists themselves. I can think of the Tsarnaev brothers (audio) recruited. This is the entrapment that goes on all the time, where they're going after these young people, to become informants. They actually get involved in terrorism. It's government sponsored terrorism. That's really what it is.

Elan: You cover the case of Michael Hastings a little bit in your book and this is just an excerpt from it.
In the several months since 33-year-old investigative journalist Michael Hastings was most likely murdered on June 18th, it has become increasingly clear that he was not a victim of just another freak car accident. Weeks earlier the Obama regime had declared open war on free journalism with aggressive surveillance and punitive retribution on AP reporters, even selected corporate media news reporters and clearly those willing to reveal potentially damaging or threatening information about our government's tyranny.

Michael Hastings had a very high profile history since the June 2010 Rolling Stone article featuring Afghan war commander General McChrystal and his staff's harsh critique of (audio) subsequently resulting in McChrystal's forced resignation. Michael Hastings also wrote an unflattering article about General David Petraeus in the February 2011 Rolling Stone article indicating 'King David's losing proposition for turning the war in Afghanistan around with a surge'.

The very day he died, Hastings contacted friends and associates to report that he was under an FBI investigation, that he feared his car had been tampered with and was about to (audio) of a news story involving covert operations employed by US intelligence agencies, specifically targeting current CIA director John Brennan.
So if they're not getting us one way, they're getting us another.

Joachim: Yeah.

Elan: This was obviously a guy who had reached an audience and was saying things that were getting on these guys' nerves. And what do they do? They send out their special hounds and they basically kill him. Fortunately I don't think we've seen much else of that sort of thing.

Joachim: Well there's Gary Webb, San Jose Mercury. He outed the Bush family on the Iran Contras bringing all the cocaine into the country, into the inner cities ghettos of America; he died for it. He got two gunshots into the forehead, and they called it suicide.

Harrison: And there was the guy researching the Franklin scandal and he was flying with his son to a ballgame, I think.

Joachim: Oh yes.

Harrison: And his plane crashed under suspicious circumstances.

Joachim: I always forget his name, but he was a wonderful senator from Wisconsin. [Wellstone]. Apparently he met with Cheney a week before his death.

Elan: Paul Wellstone?

Joachim: Cheney basically said "You better come onboard with us going to war in Iraq or else!" And then he died a week later with his family in a plane accident.

Elan: That was Paul Wellstone I think.

Joachim: Yeah, that's it. Yes. And that was pretty suspicious too. So if you make enough waves and you have a high enough profile where they feel threatened by your presence, they send their goons. Like I say, it's an international crime syndicate government that we have. They will send their assassin goons out and silence people that become an annoyance to them because they are too busy telling the truth about them.

Harrison: Actually the Franklin scandal reminded me of something that you'd written. One of the articles from earlier this year that you wrote was the Power, Paedophilia and the US Government.

Joachim: Yeah, that was one that Michel Chossudovsky would not post. That's what prompted me actually to go to Veterans Today. They did ultimately post it. The Franklin scandal is one scandal. I have also written another article last year on the human slavery and the trafficking and the sex scandals that are going on with children and young girls. All over the world they're taking children. It's a huge problem in Canada with the aboriginal Indians there where they disappear all the time. And then there's some media that's come out (audio) Prince Andrew in England was involved in having sex with under-aged, trafficked slaves. So it's a widespread crime ring. These people are subhuman.

When you're talking about doing terrible things sexually to children and killing them during satanic rituals, that's got to be about the most evil thing you can even think of, much less actually do. And that's what the royalty, the judges, the politicians, the big corporate heads, that what psychopaths do. They're evil paedophilic psychopaths that are doing horrible things. And there's these large rings so that have constant fresh supply of new meat, of little children and girls and stuff. It's crazy! But that's how sick these people are that are in control.

Harrison: And then on the other hand, we've mentioned psychopaths a bunch and you've written about it, but there was another article that you wrote Psychopathologizing the Nation With Mental Disorders Drives Big Pharma Profit and Totalitarian Control. So on the one hand we've got these truly mentally deviant individuals that are just totally sick by any normal human standard, but then on the other we've got this, what you call the psychopathologizing. Can you just talk about that a bit and what's going on in the psychiatric and psychological world?

Joachim: Yeah. This area is close to home because obviously I made a career in mental health so I had to work with psychiatrists all the time. I think what we've seen is basically the criminalization of the psychiatry profession in marriage with big pharma. There are good psychiatrists. There are caring, very good therapists who are psychiatrists, so it's not a whole blanket "if you're a psychiatrist you're a whore for big pharma". I was fortunate to work with a handful actually that were very, very good. So I want to first say that before I blast them. (laughter) But yeah, they're whores to the big drug companies. That's all they are. They're drug-pushing whores. The FDA are drug-pushing whores.

It's a diabolical aim and goal to make people worse, make people sick. And that's what these drugs do. They mess with peoples' heads and make them worse. There are limited cases where of course medications can save peoples' lives. I also have to say that as a qualifier too. I think the third leading cause of death in America is at the hands of bad medicine, bad prescriptions, errors by the doctors. It's just totally out of control. Yeah, it's used by the system to brainwash and program and zombify, and get a person unable to have clear thinking processes to be able to make their own life choices that are good for them. Yeah, there is a diabolical plan aimed to take control of the masses through the huge evil corporations that make so much profit, these big pharma corporations. So yeah, there's another area that's really out of hand and out of control that we also need to educate and inform people about so people can get themselves free of it.

It doesn't have to necessarily be a prescription medication, it can be over-the-counter. I don't watch TV anymore but I remember watching NBC News or something and they go to the commercial break - probably in a half hour broadcast there's 12 or 15 minutes of one medication, over-the-counter, after another, or ones that you have to get with prescriptions. But it's just drugs, drugs, drugs, drugs! So if it's not the illegal kind that our government is profiting from in the billions through the illegal international drug trade, it's the big pharma corporations that are just making a killing and destroying peoples' lives.

So yeah, they're the enemy. They're the enemy. The government and the big corporations, they're the enemy! Yup!

Harrison: There's another aspect too. I've noticed over the past several years that every once in a while there's an article that comes out on a new psychiatric disorder that's just totally ridiculous. I can't remember the names that they come up with for any of them, but there's the one about people who are too concerned about what they eat.

Caroline: Orthorexia.

Harrison: Yeah. But what seems to be a trend that's been going on for years in the psychiatric community is that they are basically pathologizing either good human activities and outlooks on the world or just normal responses to the world and making these normal responses a disease. Because anyone that's living in this world is going to experience some trauma or going to have some kind of inner conflict over what's going on . So these people just becoming written off as mentally ill and then that gives an excuse to big pharma to make billions of dollars selling them drugs that don't work and that they don't need.

So it's another sign of how totally backwards things are where the people in power and the people shaping society are the ones that are truly sick, and the majority who are just reacting to that and having a healthy, normal reaction, are the ones that are written off as not quite human, when it's the total opposite.

Joachim: Yeah, I do believe that it's all part of the globalists' agenda to get people under control. And I believe that if you get a diagnosis it's like a sentence for life, when people are ostracised with a mental disorder; it's just horrible that people are being judge, misjudged. And it's all basically for control over the masses. It's for a very diabolical purpose. You can probably pathologize anybody nowadays. I see it as, once you get that label, they then will come in and have the authoritative means to lock you up. That's where it's all headed. It's our freedom that's at stake here. Freedom of the body to be free. They're just total fanatical, pathological control freaks that want absolute control over the masses, and this is just one spearheaded approach that they're using. All the food, just like the horrible vaccinations.

They've got a whole program in the human health department where they have a plan in place for making vaccinations for adults mandatory. It's bad enough that they're destroying so many of the kids around the world, but they also have this diabolical plan of vaccinating every single adult American. And while they're doing that they'll probably be placing a microchip in it. That's their agenda as well so that they can program us through their microchips. There's a lot of that going on now too. And they're doing all kinds of horrific things with weapons, causing people's hearts to stop and sending all kinds of electromagnetic pulses to make people crazy. There's a lot of stuff out there with this technology now, of controlling people. And there's a lot of weapons they have in their arsenal that they're using against us.

So, yeah! We have our jobs cut out for us to try and inform and educate the people to make choices where they're not under control and under the thumb of a tyrannical government that's out of control.

Elan: And that's really what it seems to be about. It's about choice and giving people the information to make an informed choice where they can. I have to say Joachim, it's been a wonderful show. You bring as much energy and passion and knowledge to this conversation as you do in your articles and we really enjoyed having you here.

Joachim: Well I enjoyed sounding off. You gave me a great little soap box to just dish it out as I see it. So thank you guys.

Shane: Before we wrap up though, I was wondering if we could ask you just what your future research might look like because this most recent article on Niburu was a bit different from your usual writing and I thought it was interesting that you're going into new fields. So I was wondering if you could talk about that a little bit.

Joachim: You do so much of exposing the truth of the horror that's going on and I've been accused myself of focusing almost exclusively on the negative of what's going on. It's not going to be easy but what I want to do is compile as much research and information as I can on what people can do, to empower people to move in the right direction rather than just tearing down what is out there and going on. To give people some sense of "Oh, I can do this" and "I have this option" and "we can do this together"; to give people ideas as to how they can come together and be empowered. So I really want to work on that. That's my challenge that I plan for myself in the next week or two or three. To be a unifying force for what we can do right now; talking about what's going on but also coming together in some kind of organizational fashion where we empower the local communities and all that. I think that's the direction that I'm headed.

Caroline: It's a good one!

Joachim: Yeah, and it's much needed too.

Caroline: People need hope right now. We can lay out all the terrible stuff that's happening and it can really just put a person right on the ground. You have to be able to also offer them a hand. "Here's what comes next".

Shane: Yeah, there's that deconstructive process, but we also need something constructive, so it's nice that you'll be writing about that stuff and we look forward to reading it.

Joachim: Yeah, I definitely am.

Elan: Well I just want to thank you again for coming on the show today Joachim. It's a funny thing how it happened. As I mentioned to you, you submitted your article on Niburu and that very same morning I was going to write to you to ask you if you wanted to be on the show. So funny how things work out.

Joachim: Synchronicity.

Elan: Yeah. Probably no accident there. I do want to remind our listeners that Joachim Hagopian's articles can be found on American Empire exposed, which is You can also read his book online at It's a hell of a read. I hope we hear from you in the future. I hope you can come on again and talk with us about what you're seeing and doing, and we appreciate you being here today.

Joachim: Alright, well thank you all.

Harrison: Alright, thank you Joachim.

Elan: And just a reminder tomorrow tune in to Behind the Headlines 2:00 p.m. eastern standard time, next Friday is the Health and Wellness Show at 10:00 a.m. eastern standard time. Thanks for listening in everybody. Have a great week and take care.