As regular Sott.net readers will know, much of our work over the past 10 years has been dedicated to exposing this decidedly dangerous and depressing state of affairs which we consider to be the root of all other problems facing humanity. However, for the most part, we have always stopped short of offering any solutions, mainly because any possible solution to this problem would first require a critical mass of awareness about the problem itself. And we're still a long way from that critical mass. But time is running short, and perhaps it is time to depart, if only momentarily, from our usual approach and consider any possible solutions to this over-arching dilemma. Indeed, we may very well have to face this issue at some point in our collective future.
The following is 'solution' to the problem of psychopaths among us, proffered by a Sott.net reader. Admittedly, the solution is shocking and, to the normal human mind, morally reprehensible. Certainly, in a world without psychopaths, normal human values would work. But psychopaths use the best things about human beings against them, including the idea that human life is somehow more valuable than other forms of life on our planet. We've all been brought up with the idea that "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of god", and the corollary, that all human-looking beings have souls that can be redeemed. What if that is not true? What if that has been programmed into us for the very purpose of protecting psychopaths from the reckoning of the majority of normal human beings?
We present the following short story purely in the spirit to which we, as an organisation, have always adhered: the facilitation of open discussion on life's most pressing and complex issues... and this is the big one.
Psychopaths - A Solution?
By Griffin
Robbie knew he was smart, his parents and everyone else said so. He also learned he could get away with things. There was the time that he killed 'Ms Boots', the family cat. Caught her one day in the back yard and rammed a sharp stick in her chest, watched her eyes widen in hurt and astonishment before the light went out of them. That excited him and he liked the feeling of power. He stuck the stick into the garden with her body on top, and told his parents that she'd gone after a bird, didn't see the sharp stick and landed on it. He was only 5 at the time.
Fast forward 10 years, Robbie had done very well in school, knew how to tell all the teachers what they wanted to hear, and tested well because he was smart. He also made sure he got ahead, whatever it took. Crazy glue in Jimmy's laptop ports was just a prank, right? And nobody saw him do it, so it didn't happen in his school record.
Another five years gone, and Robbie's on top of the world, college is going swimmingly and he's learned how to subtly trash his peers while appearing upright and eager to please all of his professors. He even gets selected for an elite leadership program, quite exclusive.
In the psychology lab in the stale smelling basement of an old hall, Robbie's professor says, "This is real, it's no longer a simulation." And he asks, "Are you up to doing this?" Of course, Robbie eagerly says, "Yes!" He has no idea what's to come but he likes to think of himself as very adaptive.
They enter a room with a window into another small room, in which there's another young man, strapped to a chair. The professor says, "It's a one-way mirror, he can't see you." Then he says, "This is a condemned criminal. To see if you're fit to lead, we ask you to push the button to execute him." He asks, "Can you do it?" Well, Robbie has no qualms about killing another human being, but he's learned enough to know that normal humans aren't meant to enjoy killing, so he hesitates a bit for effect and feigns nervousness saying, "Yeah... I can do it."
Robbie steps up to the window. There's a button on a console there. The professor says, "Go ahead." Without hesitation, Robbie pushes the button. Electricity flows, and the young man in the other room stiffens, jerks and finally goes limp.
He shrugs, glances at his professor and asks, "Is that it?" The older man hesitates a second, then asks, "Do you want to know what he did?" Robbie, thinking he's just punched another ticket into the elite club, says, "Yeah, I guess so, what did he do?"
The professor says, "He was a psychopath, he executed a young man just like himself without asking beforehand for any proof, or to see an order from a court that he was condemned to die."
He stopped, looked hard at Robbie and said, "Like you just did."
Without further ado, the professor calls out: "Guards, take him!"
Comment: Read our forum discussion of The Odyssey for a message in a bottle from our ancestors about how they dealt with the issue of psychopathy, with the help and encouragement of Athena.
Reader Comments
I believe I've read in the past that scientists are able to determine psychopathic profiles by looking at brain activity (or lack thereof).
Wouldn't it be possible to start a movement, where people in positions of power (elected officials, police, public CEOs, etc.) were mandated to undergo testing to at least attempt identification of psychopathic traits? And then barred from the post if a positive ID given?
I know that's also a big can of worms...but I'm also down for exploring solutions at this point. The madness has gone on for too long, and if left unchecked, will probably end up prematurely killing and harming millions more...If the technology exists, maybe it should be used.
I've been suggesting this to people for a couple of years now. When you think about it, it seems only basic due dilligence to ensure that decision-making positions affecting multitudes of people should under no circumstances be occupied by individuals unable to empathize with them. Brain scans, interviews, and other such tests could easily weed out the psychopathic contenders from office. It need not even be exterminatory: once identified, the psychopath can be sent on its way, barred from any sort of responsible office and publicly registered as a psychopath but free to do as it pleases (unless it breaks the law in some way). The risk of this happening would be the price one pays for reaching for the top, whether in politics, public service, finance, business, academia, or religious office. This one simple measure would, I am convinced, solve at a stroke seemingly intractable problems in all those spheres and more. And it's very difficult to argue with ...but ONLY if the test is damn near foolproof (as in, the number of false positives is much lower than the number of psychopaths who slip through the screen.)
This sounds like Stanley Milgram's infamous experiments on authority and obedience. Judging from the results he got, I would suspect that this would kill off far more than just the psychopaths!
There is also the fact that Milgram's work is very well known. If Robbie was clever, he would recognize the similar situation, and he would choose not to obey - that would be the best demonstration of good leadership skills. He would not need a lick of empathy for the prisoner to arrive at this conclusion, either.
I do see what the author is getting at, but I don't think that a dramatic test like this would work in the slightest. If we're going to look down this impossibly precarious and morally dangerous road of extermination, why not do it with something much harder to fake? Look at those brain scans at the end of the article. It would be extremely difficult to weasel your way out of that.
Psychopaths should be barred from from all important administrative and social positions in society, but not executed, because of the mere chance some may be able to recover, under the right influences (biologically and psychologically). Even if this is wishful thinking, before any executions take place it should be proven conclusively that it will prevent more deaths than it causes. We cannot know for sure of the efficacy of putting administrative/societal bans on psychopaths until we have actually tried.
Perhaps Sott.net should work on a simple device aimed towards detecting the neurological features of psychopaths, using EEG for instance?
I don't not get the story. Who's the psychopath here? the proffessor? Robbie? the person that invented this story? the ones that think this story is a real option? To me, the moral of this story is: people that hate psychopaths are psychopaths themselves.
Psychopaths provide some sort of 'balance' in the universe, or they wouldn't be here. Psychopaths also provide ALL of us with a tremendous learning experience and opportunity for growth. Going along with an SOTT-inspired "witch hunt" seems like quite the STS thing to do, which may be fine for some, but i'll pass, thank you.
To Joe's point, i hope that SOTT is only attempting to increase awareness on the current situation here on Earth -- a notable deed, indeed. However, we all need to keep in mind the SOTT agenda (ie, blame most things on earth changes) when reading these articles, and filtering accordingly. For example, the SOTT folks still think that a bona fide 9.0+ earthquake caused a tsunami which took out the nuke plants in Japan. But anyone with an open mind knows that there is MUCH more to this issue than that, and the good folks at SOTT seem reluctant to address this issue because (i theorize) it does not fit well with their agenda.
Anyway, i digress....
as opposed to what, exactly?
There is no 'SOTT agenda' - SOTT calls it as it sees it. SOTT isn't blaming earth changes - SOTT is saying "Check out all these unusual events - based on the available evidence, it appears that our terrestrial and cosmic environment is changing!"
An 'agenda' suggests that SOTT is highlighting earth changes in order to distract from something else. So what, in your opinion, is SOTT trying to hide from you?
Interesting that you claim to know what the SOTT folks think. Also, your theorizing can lead to rather outlandish conclusions. Why don't you provide some evidence for your theories rather than theorizing in the dark about our theories.
Interesting reaction. I don't claim to know the answers, hence the "theorizing" aspects of my comments. All the evidence you need is out there, as you know, waiting for you to discover it. I'll be the first to admit that i have neither the time nor inclination to write a full-blown article to back my comments -- i'll leave that to the experts on the SOTT team. But I will emphasize again that the "slant" (aka, agenda) is becoming more obvious to many readers, so please be aware. Yes, there are earth changes going on all around us right now, as there has always been. But many (most?) of these recent large man-made disasters are at least partially man-made (such as the Haiti earthquake and Japanese tsunami). I would hope that the SOTT team would invest as much energy in pursuing the man-made angles (as with the 9/11 fiasco) as the nature-born calamaties.
I hope your plan works on those weak minded enough to actually buy your statements without any proof. Thank you again for this valuable lesson on your twisted logic.
Are psychopaths the products of a world in which "At least he is honest",
as Carlin's video brilliantly teaches us, frame, par excellence, the functioning of the 'cerebral cortex' of this bourgeois imperial dictatorship that work "to bring Freedom to the people of the world"?:
[Link]
"Look at those brain scans at the end of the article. It would be extremely difficult to weasel your way out of that."
Well, I'm sure some people think voting machines are infallible, too. That is, I think the psychopaths would make "fixing" the tests Priority #1 and then forever hold them up as "proof" of normal brain activity, to fool the public.
I also think "they" are here to provide some kind of lesson or balance, and the ultimate solution is for everyone to figure it out, eventually, across as many lifetimes as necessary. When the critical mass is reached, it will be easier for the rest. In pursuit of that "solution," I think resources like SOTT are doing the right thing.
if people want a society consisting primarily of going for the gold, this is the result
a society consisting of such people does not have the will or cohesion to carry out said test in the first place
This is a good piece.
It's beyond time that we start waking up to the scourge of psychopathology that blights us.
I don't agree with the poster who glibly says that if you hate psychopaths you must be one yourself. This person has obviously never been damaged by a psychopath, I mean really damaged.
Not sure about killing them all though.By what measure would we judge? Sending them all to otherwise uninhabited desert islands might be better. Trouble is they might breed even more and together they could hatch even worse plans for world domination and global sadism.
Oh wait. We're there already.
We're fcuked.
I am the author of this short story. I'd written it as sort of Twilight Zone sketch in a comment to a recent SOTT article about psychopaths, and forwarded it to Laura. She thought SOTT might want to publish it, so I agreed. It was meant to provoke thought and discussion, and it's done and is doing that, so please do carry on.
The problems presented by psychopaths threaten our very survival as the dominant species on this planet, because they threaten the survival of the natural environment and all species on Earth and the Earth itself.
These problems are multifold. There are those psychopaths leading the world's great religions who forbid birth control, wanting followers to multiply eponentially and increase their wealth and political power. There are psychopaths in high political offices who don't hesitate to order the deaths of thousands of their own citizens (see 9/11) along with immoral, aggressive wars that kill millions in mostly unoffending countries (see Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and coming soon perhaps, Syria, Pakistan and Iran). There are major psychopaths in global finance (Bernie Madoff, yes, but he was a piker; we're talking about the Rothschilds and their minions - the BIS, ECB, IMF, Bank of England, City of London, US Federal Reserve, Wall Street plus all of the other usurious central banks - all of whom defraud us). There are psychopaths running the major multinational corporations which make money everywhere but pay taxes nowhere, and which capture and privatize profits while simultaneously externalizing financial and environmental destruction, ensuring suffering and deaths of millions just so their executives, boards and major stockholders can be rich.
The war profiteers (Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Halliburton and many thousands more), big oil companies (BP, Exxon-Mobile, Shell, plus the others), pharmaceutical companies, big agricultural and pesticide companies, large scale factory farming and food manufacturers, all of the mass media companies, are all run by crews of psychopaths!
It's very tempting to simply give up, adopt a fatalistic outlook, hunker down and just hope to live a decently comfortable life and die quietly in bed at an old age, leave our generation's mistakes for those who will come after us to straighten out. But that is avoidance, you know.
We should at least frame the problem. And that is that the incentives of our societies are skewed to favor success of psychopaths over success of all us normal, empathetic and cooperative human beings.
We're at a disadvantage, however. For, while the psychopaths have no qualms about killing us individually or wholesale, we consider the criteria of certain justice, ponder genetics versus environment, think about whether these monsters can be rehabilitated, and so on, all to avoid the realization that we need to put more sustainable incentives in place, in our governments, media and, above all, for corporations.
That's what this short story is about, ultimately, and it suggests that executing psychopaths for murderous pursuit of self-interest might not be a bad idea. Recoil in horror if you will at the thought, but there it is. We as a species have to do something, or they will eat us alive.
Thanks to SOTT for publishing it. I'll withdraw now. Please discuss.
Killing is a choice - nothing more. Killing is not a solution.
It is no accident that we inhabit an environment where entities that lack a conscience surround us. If, in fact we have a conscience - a soul - then... an opportunity presents itself to learn something from the very existence of these entities.
We learn that they exist. We learn that they are not like us. We learn that they are different than we are. We learn that a material manifestation within this environment can take many different forms and that many of these manifestations lack the capacity to think as we think. We learn that although they do indeed think - their 'thinking' does not generate the same outcome. The outcome of the thoughts of a psychopath does not generate emotion. The psychopath lacks the capacity to 'feel' empathy, shame, remorse. The psychopath lacks the capacity to feel what we think of as 'love'. The psychopath - as we are - is mechanical. The psychopath - as we are - is a machine of sorts. However, there exists a subtle and highly significant difference between a psychopath and a human being with a conscience. It is this very difference that allows a human with a conscience an opportunity to learn and to rise and to evolve.
I think that in what we perceive as the future, an opportunity will present itself to use this knowledge.
Such an allegation could cost you your life...
What a strange final "solution"... One must really know his enemy to contemplate that for sure!!
Who would be the psychopath judge?
A psychopath came up with that one too.
Something like Robert Anton Wilson proposes in the Schrodinger's Cat Trilogy? In that book the lady president sends all the conscienceless criminals to "Hell", which was actually the state of Mississippi encased in laser shielding. In other words, give them the free will to do onto themselves all that they want, but prevent them from ever stepping foot outside their own little sick world. Maybe after several generations of eating MSG laden carbohydrate foods they'll devolve back into Neanderthals again and will be too dumb to realize their predicament...
In all seriousness though, it does seem like there should be some sort of "test" for these creatures, regardless of how they are ultimately dealt with. Brain scans might be one part of it, but direct observations of behavior such as Griffin proposes could be another... This raises a lot of very interesting and important questions for sure.
Re: How about...I thought that was "Escape from NY" -
Of course, at 6% of humanity, we could hardly expect to fit 420 million there, so perhaps Mississippi would be better.
The problem is, Have you been to Mississippi? The place - at least once well north of Mobile - is rather pretty but no one knows it.
RC
"But in all seriousness"
1. Griffin, good job in stimulating needed discussion. and,
2. And of course WE know of Milgram's Experiments, but in the dumbed down students of AmeriKa today - and specifically HOW they've been dumbed down - I would not be surprised if it is not even taught... "You don't need to learn that chapter." (Assuming they had, most of Milgram's experimentees (the "Teachers") did not see themselves honestly as being "authoritarian follower types" they were - i.e., that is a HUGE chunk of society.
RC
for elucidating. I'm with you just about 100%.
When I posited the desert island solution, it was with that murderous pursuit of self-interest remedy in mind. They'd be at each others' throats in no time.
But say if we could localise them all to such containment, what about all those back in the 'normal' world who would be lost without charismatic sadists to follow?
My sense is that not only do we have a pandemic of psychopaths, we've also got a rampaging epidemic of pseudo-psychopaths - psychopath-addicted wannabes. People who hang on the every word of psychos and who carry out their callous masters' commands unquestioningly. Nuremberg did nothing to eliminate them, and nor did Milgram serve to alert them to their weak, sycophantic follies.
These pseudo-paths are possibly just as dangerous. And they're everywhere: from jobsworths at local councils and teachers to airport security workers to healthcare provider death panel members and law enforcement.
To eliminate the psychopaths, we have to have a massive re-education strategy in place for the vast army of pseudo-paths. In fact, maybe these enablers are the real problem? Without them, the relatively few genuine psychopaths would be easily containable.
Yes, this is central to the problem, Right-Wing Authoritarians defend psychopaths to the death. Can the blinders ever be lifted from their eyes? Alternative authority figures would need to be in place, highly visible and with the means to broadcast to the mass-mind of RWAs. The 'paths made sure they dominate the airwaves, so the answer might lie in cancelling out this frequency... somehow.
This very discussion is what makes the humanoids quake in their jackboots.
Please allow me to add this small contribution: what if I could pay to receive a certificate which stated that I had successfully passed a series of tests, and was deemed to be non-psychopathic. Hmmm. Of course, the issuer of the certificate would need money to conduct the tests, and also to maintain a databank to demonstrate that their testing service was reliable over time. Such funding might be obtained through a dating service--through which humans might meet other humans. I'd pay for that.
Maybe soon, as more of us got certified, the process would gain greater use in more official capacities.
As to the tests, I think a combination is quite effective. Essentially, such an organization would not issue a certificate for any questionable individual. This would likely include active psuedo-paths, while those of us partials who are in recovery could well pass. I'd pay just to see how well my 12 step recovery is working, 'specially if it meant I could date real humans.
I think this would catch on and become quite popular, as long as the organization does not get manipulated by psychopaths.
I like the idea and would sign up myself, even if it was something I could use as a conversation piece.
Funny. I can't think of anything more pseudo-human than a "dating service".
Like a lot of people here probably do when reading these comments, I seem to spend half my time wondering which of you is human and which of you is "one of them things".... [Link]
This all sounds like some type of Moral Eugenics to me. I share many of the concerns about the influence of the psychopathetic, sociopathetic,and narcessistic personality types, and those influenced by them, in our societies. However, we humans do not have to fit into one of the aforementioned profiles to be ignorant, destructive, stupid, and cruel !
People of conscience, who experience guilt and fear, love and happiness, who light up like the brain picture on the left, above, do the most awful things ! We do not have to be a P, S, or N personality type to pollute, burn,or hate; to be intolerant, discriminatory, and stupid. This has always been so.
What seems to be the case today, is that there are so many of us around at this time - 6 billion, rising to 15 billion in 100 years or so. That really puts on the social and ecological pressures. Also there Corporations, and it is these 'entities' which are spreading the negitive qualities of Psychopathy to all corners of the earth.
When we start to try to justify the murder of another using an 'its us or them' scenario, even fictional,then we become the object we claim to fear and despise - and the 'darkness' wins again !
That we must evolve is a 'given' ; whether we have the time or the smartness to do so, is not so clear. A species does not evolve by killing etc,( thats just an attempt to dominate, for whatever 'reasons'), it do so by changing itself, and we are perhaps entering an era when to deliberately alter/improve the species is becoming possibel. We should be stimulating and encouraging this debate and progress, not becoming fixated on psychopaths.
We might also like to consider that we, like those we hold up as objects of fear, are also controlled by instinctive behaviours and impulses, equally binding and limiting. Does'nt the christian bible say something about getting too focused on the 'moat in our brothers (and sisters !) eye, while ignoring (not seeing) the 'beam' in our own eye ???
'Thou hypocrit ', indeed, but worse that that it wastes the energt and time that we need to focus on what we really need to do !
Also notice the disclaimer of people being aware of what they are doing. There are many situation in which psychopaths disguise the ramifications of the actions ordinary people take, or make it very convenient for them to turn their backs on those ramifications in the interest of keeping their job, etc.
Psychopaths, on the other hand, are purely a case of nature--though exactly what sorts of hurtful actions a psychopath might be inclined toward could well be due to how they are reared. A wealthy psychopath might not be predisposed toward murder, but will ruin lives financially, for instance.
You might want to consider the strong possibility that the phrase "it's human nature" is actually a psychopathic turn of phrase intended to mask their difference by confusing the issue.
"We should be stimulating and encouraging this debate and progress, not becoming fixated on psychopaths."
We empathetic humans as a race have done enough discussions and debates, things always turn really good until the situation is manipulated by a truly psychopathic individual. At this point it is only relevant to submit the evidence and execute the solution.
mandatory testing for any job. Upon confirmation of psychopathy, a death penalty which can only be avoided by accepting sterilization and cooperation in working for society identifying other possible psychopaths or filling job positions particularly suited for those with the cognitive deficiencies characteristic to them - all rigorously worked out beforehand.
The guards take him to a van and drive him, blindfolded, to a secret underground base where he joins a secret team of researchers working on turning ordinary people into robot soldiers. He lives "happily" ever after.
The problem is not detection. The problem is that they are almost impossible to treat. Along with the fact that they have friends in high places.
The solution lies more along the line of exposure and public education. Because psychopaths control most of the media and the entertainment industry, getting the truth out there isn't easy. The internet has been one of the few available means of spreading some of this information. But it is a double-edged sword due to its tracking abilities.
Our best chance is to shout loud and long while we still have the opportunity.
Raising awareness of this issue (or any issue, for that matter) is a GOOD thing, for sure. After all, knowledge is power. However, we risk starting a 21st century witch hunt, if we're not extremely careful. This would play right into the psychopaths' hands. As Griffin said, he is merely attempting to "frame" the issue, so maybe the implementation is somewhat lacking in this case. At any rate, these discussions are healthy, and i'd like to hear more about what others think with regard to how we might all live side-by-side with these "special" individuals, if that's even possible?!?!?
Oh, please, not that hackneyed old saw! Knowledge isn't power; power is power.
For instance, I think it likely that nearly everyone who visits SOTT regularly knows that the official conspiracy theory of 9/11 is nonsense.
So why don't we have power? Why are we the ones who are denigrated as conspiracy theorists? Why haven't the PATRIOT Act and the Homeland Security Act been repealed? Why haven't any of the perpetrators of 9/11 even been indicted? Why, as in the case of the assassination of JFK, will the events of 9/11 never be officially solved?
We know that the psychopaths will never be caught and punished. Where's the power in that?
Knowledge isn't power; power is power, and we ain't got none.
Although, taking drastic measures in the way of containment that has been mentioned thus far seems to follow in their footsteps. Creating draconian laws of testing for positions of power almost seems like something they would do, or worse, get the idea to do such a thing as proposed here(or some other area) and twist its application for their use to keep "us" out. I know they are not like us, even though we have been taught we are all the same, but does it make sense to operate in a fashion like their own? i guess what i was trying to do was step back and look at the way some of the suggestions here were posted. What was the plan and how it was implimented? For even a just cause to create a more sustainable world, does the process make sense? (problem is, a lot of harm can come from good intentions, especially when one doesnt have an objective outlook married to the wisdom of carrying out intent with the knowledge one has, assuming that knowledge is true btw) So yes, doing some of the suggestions here would seem desirable. But then i tried to look at such ideas from the "PTB/psychopath" perception (as best i could from what information i have gathered so far) Hence, i mentioned how such ideas could be twisted and utilized for their own goals and aspirations at continued dominance. So my question is, how do we operate? It seems to me that doing such an exercise would help in assessing what operational modes would be more like "them". Granted we are all STS and we live in an STS environment, but we are trying to work on becoming STO/STO candidates. If our actions appear to mimic "theirs" in any way, i think we deeply need to reconsider and tweek our idea and try and fit it more into an STO kind of dynamic. I kind of relate it to working with the system as it is now. From "our" standpoint its broken/corrupt. It has become so over years of "their" infiltration and continued influence to systematically bind with great movements in a parasitic way, slowly chipping away at once grand foundations and infusing it with "their" dogma. So to try and affect change in such organizations now seems a bit futile to me. It is almost like they have become an operating STS entity in and of itself from the changes that took place. Trying to force such systems to change based on what "we" are coming to know seems quite STS in nature, due to our judgement upon them. What we should do is create new organizations with solid foundations that have the continued vigilance to be aware of such activies of "theirs" so that it continues to adhere to the desired principals of its creation (such as this site and its related bodys) So as such, for the time being i would impliment the continued spreading of knowledge that is taking place until such a time that, what i would consider "proper"(the outlook/wisdom/knowledge comment earlier), action could be initiated to benefit our world. These are just some thoughts that popped into my head, FWIW. i look forward to the continued debate.
Bobby
p.s.- the "us/them" quotes are merely used to differentiate between viewpoints, not to try and polorize and propogate the us vs. them mentaliy
There is - apart from a longing for solution - a necessary need to take stock of the "problem" as it does or doesn't relate to some "us." I hear all sorts of comments here, but the thing held in common between the majority is some sort of "awareness" that psychopathy is an abomination of nature. It's just what's so. Nothing more or less. I have compassion for those who are affected; and, I may or may not convince myself of a need to "rescue" others from what I label as their depravity. But, acting to justify my unexamined view of a situation is as blind - if not more - as action arising from mere, natural disposition (psychopathic or otherwise). It's in "their" nature to be as they are. Is this justification? Nope, just something not yet understood in your bones if we're running about mentally adjudicating the appropriateness of islands or non-island, execution or non-execution solutions. How about educations of ourselves or those we care to educate? What is it in a non-psychopath that allows for the identification of a psychopath? Those once affected now have a specialized knowledge - if the situation has been transcended and not simply "overcome;" and, at it's depth, I bet there's a clearer understanding of one's own humanity and that of others. Why not teach that? The problem with psychopathy is that WE haven't become human, yet: not for as long as we would seek to kill our own lack of feeling in the embodiment of him or her psychopath. As for those incapable or unable to appreciate those parts of themselves impervious to psychopathic corruptions, then stop casting pearls before swine.
the psychos-in-charge won't have to play "nicey-nicey" anymore -- like going along for an obligatory brain scan, or worrying about bad "PR." They're right there folks, in plain view. Crazy is as crazy does. And a lot of people actually believe NATO, with our help, is doing the people of Libya a favor. To quote the late great Curly Howard, "Is everybody dumb?"
You can't deal with psychopaths by finding out who they are and getting rid of them from institutions. Why? Because I don't believe exclusion is the answer or can ever be the answer to anything, at least not on a global level. Just because psychopaths have the upper hand now doesn't mean that the only way to deal with them is to create awareness for exclusion purposes. I think they must have a reason, a part, be it spiritual or esoteric to play in the evolution of our planet. At the end of the day it is an evolutionary game being played out there and no one said it was going to be a holiday camp. I don't even think it is possible to exclude psychopaths without the whole thing turning really nasty and pathological simply because it runs against our core human traits.
So firstly, I think people have to define what being human is and why psychopaths dont qualify. Who qualifies to be human? Souled beings? Organic Portals? What about racial divide, economic divide, inequality, rich vs poor etc. The whole landscape is fragmented. I see psychopaths as serving the role believe or not of teaching humanity exactly what it is. Humans have to rise up, have to discover or re-discover something in themselves that they have not yet discovered. It would be cheating to win the game by refusing the other team to play, you can only win by improving your own game. I don't even think the rules of the game are so one team can say, we don't want that team on the playing pitch. I think that counts as an automatic forfeit.
Psychopaths are nasty creature no doubt, but surely there must be effective ways of facing up to nasty creatures without becoming one in the process. The professor in this story got one psychopath to kill another, through some clever scheme, somehow the impression is that doesnt taint his soul from the act but we see everyday people killing other people on behalf of someone else. This is the psychopaths game. I think in order to survive, people have to be complete within themselves or else you will forever be a potential victim to whatever predator the universe can come up with be it physical or ghosts in ones head/psyche.. Psychopaths are just one of them, I am sure there are a myriad of them out there of all different varieties.
Similarly, we choose to create a supportive society where the lack of compunction and remorse are seen as mental disabilities, and people with them get to park their lives in handicapped areas, to society's and their mutual advantage.
When more and more folks chose to be moral and empathic ( as that supports their dreams and existence ), the societal forces will be directed and tempered in the proper manner to delegitimize psychopath's way of being, as if they're attempting to run the Boston Marathon with prosthetic legs and a portable artificial lung machine.
We are all just temporarily enabled in our lives, with many's disabilities hidden and minimized -- to better maintain decorum and self-esteem.
Better yet, we should be joyous and able to be vulnerable and open about what it personally means to human, for each of us -- to cherish and celebrate our diversity and individuality -- for what it can create.
Psychopaths are likely great candidates for making those tough decisions that most of us would dread, perhaps as hatchet-men in HR to tell warmongers that they have to immediately retrain themselves, or loose their amoral jobs ?
If we put our minds to it, the general societal disadvantages may be creatively redirected in specific ways -- as as to create valuable contributions for psychopaths ( although I'm challenged to think of many ).
What to others think that such shamelessly flawed and lacking any authentic affect -- can do that is positive for society ?
I don't personally, at this point, think the dilemma can be solved, not by conventional thinking. Us vs. Them doesn't seem to be how nature functions. I don't follow why they could not be useful in high places, for example, say spock was a psychopath, he was still good at being direct, using logic and helping with finding solutions. He wasn't captain, but played his part. There are situations for all of us where emotion(s) gets in the way, when we react mechanically based on our emotions/Empathy. In such situations maybe having a non-emotional person can be beneficial. When I react emotionally, I don't see beyond 5-10 seconds into the future. Certainly I am pathological, emotionally wounded etc.. no doubt. Here are some personal thoughts on all of this.
Would it be at all possible to create a place for learning? Lets say Person A, using our own pathology test(s) were to pass. Would it be possible to put them into a more exclusive school, outside of the worlds pushes, pulls - billboards, propaganda, lies, diet, toxins (to some degree) - using a Star Wars metaphor, and teach them the ways of the force?
Guess I'm pretty limited in seeing how this could be useful, but I'm reminded of the saying, there is Good and there is Evil, and there is the situation that dictates which is which. I do think the majority (empathic, humane, caring, loving) should rule when it comes to psychopaths, but "IF" it is a natural occurrence in nature, SOME of them could be useful for both species I think. I say "some" cause there are those who are full on predators - blood thirsty, murderous and there are those who are trying to survive (functional).. just some thoughts, which are likely to change as I continue attempting to move forward.
In the end maybe there would be enough room in Mississipi (someplace) for the more criminal bloodthirsty type.. not that I can imply which is which, but maybe deeper probing tests of some form or another could even find the difference in that predisposition(???). A very interesting topic!
Maybe it is also important not to take psychopathy out of context. That is, hyper dimensionality. Psychopaths are only as lethal as they are because of all the help they get from you know who. So maybe all this connects with the whole corruption of science thing.
If somehow that veil can be lifted and enough people see what is hiding behind it, then we can start getting some real movement on the ground. But if you take psychopathy out of context, it is like whatever effort one makes to try and create mass awareness of the issue will inevitably fail. Whatever solution, maybe the only real solutions have to take into account the wider context in which everything is placed. At the end of the day, it is because of ignorance(thanks to cultural indoctrination), pride(thanks to the idea we are the center of the universe, the human being is the pinnacle of all creation), self centeredness(thanks to our ego and accompanying economic and social systems that define our civilizations) and all those other lovely ego qualities we possess that have put us in this position. Problem and solution is as much within us, individually and collectively as it is out there. There isn't enough emphasis that we are as much the problem as the psychopaths. The lady in the bar getting wooed by the psycho is as much to blame for falling for such utter lies as the psycho telling the lies. Maybe she wants to believe the lies, if so, then everything is playing out as it should, same as the guys in the next example. Masses of people believing the lies being fed to them are as much to blame for all the atrocities they then go out and commit on behalf of our friend mr psycho.
Anyways, more thoughts to stick out there into the mixer.
I also doubt that dreaming about illusory scenarios which include laboratories and a psycho who willfully answers a questionnaire to check if he is a psycho is realistic or useful. Something must be done, but there is IMO lots to learn before one should even think about bumping troublesome fellows from an ice shoal when nobody is looking.
Why not do something practicable and useful at the same time, and something within the capabilities and mindset of the average "normie", alone or in a group? For example, spot the bully in your school, place of work, neighborhood ... and get together with some friends and neutralize the bully - do it without resorting to overt violence, never let them know from where their troubles come, never allow them the slightest possibility of even thinking about revenge. When you (and friends) have succeeded at several such simple scenarios and gathered experience, then it might be time to advance to something more challenging like running some troublesome organization (gang, extremist religious org ...) out of your school or neighborhood or city.
Learn from your victories and defeats and teach others what you learn from your good deeds. Learn to fight and win Bunny-style before you advance to the Lion level :-)
(Overt) violence is easy and in most cases stupid and counterproductive - because it will activate the support system of the bully/psycho: the government.
Good luck and my best wishes to you.
If you actually think about it and the effort it would take to solve the problem, not only effort but subtlety and intelligence e.t.c, I think it is safe to say, we are all in very big trouble. Only God can save us now and he doesnt even exist or some very very brave people who know as much or even more than those God forsaken aliens, oh my bad, hyper dimensional beings, like odysseus or achilles or some other of the like but they only exist in books!!! Where the hell is Athena? Maybe instead of sending just Athena, they should send the whole pantheon, just to make sure...
Bottom line is, psychopaths are hardly the problem, not when put into comparison with there hyperdimensional STS denizens a.k.a Lizards but I suppose dealing with the problem put in front of you is all one can do.
On the other hand, if the victory over lies were not the collective human destiny, then we as a race have to go through some extremely tough times ahead before we run the scenario above.
Either way, we have to have hope in the victory over lies in ourselves, if that is what we truly desire. It must start with individual liberty from lies before we battle the big lies out there.
For our dearly beloved space brothers to come down here and kill the suckers all off.
But not necessarily fool proof. Robbie may not be as smart as he thinks he is - or as smart as other people think he is. Because, he got himself into this situation in the first place. A 'smart' psychopath would 'play the game' until he (or she) got themself into a position where they could do what they liked without consequences... or get other people to 'pull the tigger'. Was THAT what the professor was doing?
If this is an example of what happens to a 'not so smart' psychopath, what happens to the smarter ones? Who avoid (by getting others to do it), or don't have, this compunction to kill, but do equally destructive and hurtful things to people? This hypothetical could just be culling the less smart or more prone to kill psychopaths.... hence, not without its problems.
This story has certainly provoked an interesting debate.
Psychopaths are the Achilles Heel of humanity, no doubt. And in order to come up with a comprehensive solution to humanity's problems, this aspect needs to be covered exhaustively.
But you're also talking about changing the rest of humanity. We know at least 6% of humanity are psychopaths. Then another perhaps 20% or so are authoritarian sycophants. Then you have to take into account the organic portals, the wounded-beyond-repair, and then the fact that spirit attachments in the form of demons is so common as to be horrifying if anyone knew the true extent of it.
On the other hand, we know from the C's that there are at least 65 millions "wanderers" on the planet, or at least were back in the 90's. The number may have risen somewhat in the past decades. And then how many more humans are just struggling in quiet desperation, only going on for love of their family and friends, and the hope of brief moments that bring joy.
You'd not only have to define a comprehensive strategy for changing humanity (never been done before in recorded history, so you'd have to do it once without having the safety net of trial and error (do it wrong and you get sent to a goulag or killed)), but you'd have to do it in such a way that it doesn't attract notice. Many of us know how careful Andrew Lobeczewski, the author of Political Ponerology, and his compatriots were in the course of their research begun in the 60's, and the work was still never published until 2005.
And then, you're also talking about changing culture. As long as psychopathy is fashionable, it's impossible to defeat. You'd need maybe a dozen or more of those viral videos along the lines of the SOTT 9/11 Pentagon Strike video, in order to have anywhere near the desired impact. And then people are all the while still plugged in to mainstream media, internet, video games, and all the things that keep them dumbed down and complacent; "they" are sure to spew just as much disinfo as a result to muddy the waters.
It's a dastardly, ruthless problem. The story quoted in the article may provide a very important piece of a solution, or thoughts towards that end.
Over the last yay years, I've watched as an uber-psycho got away with almost murder shifting all the blame on a lesser psycho whilst smarming up to the lesser psycho. The lesser psycho is oblivious. It'd be a hoot if I wasn't the butt of both of their staggeringly inhuman machinations.
As dblue's linked piece suggests ("John Lash of (Metahistory dot org) has carefully considered the solution to this problem as well. His thoughts are online here:
[Link]I find this solution interesting and possibly workable."), that
a) we do not have any solutions for the scourge of psychopathy and
b) the default position vis a vis justice in this world is NON-accountability, except for that which is paraded as a theatrical simulacrum of accountability as a placebo to those of us who actually care about truth, honesty, humanity.
Mostly, the psychos have too many of us addicted to easy pleasures - we're too doped and duped. This is where we have to start: Exposing the secret that we all collude in shielding these inhumane monsters in some way or another.
But that's like taking a kid's favorite security blanket away...for the last yay years I've watched as no one wanted to challenge the criminal behaviour of two psychos because it would take too much effort or be too disruptive to their comfy little lives or they were addicted to the psychos' smarm.
Immediatedly--great thread tho'. In my own defense, er, rather, in defense of my contribution, and in echo of other voices seeking middle paths, I'd like to point out mad-scientist rule #1: you gotta do it to yourself first. Therefore, I volunteer, to pay, to be tested, hopefully, approved, and certified non-pod. Just seems to me that there are probably many others who grew up in psychopathic homes, who find their own 'nurtures' to have led them into relationships with psychopaths. I know that this is severe issue for women, who end up bearing the spawn of these monsters. Therefore, I suggest, as a point of discussion, that one practical, and perhaps erroneous, way to imagine such a plan enfolding in our lifetime, could be through a dating service.
I believe that many people (myself included) would pay all the costs associated with such a project. I believe such a service would help many people, especially women who have been victimized. I believe such a service would educate the public on the micro- and macro- scale. I believe that many individuals who have survived bullying and abuse because of their outspoken views would connect with other similarly targeted individuals. I believe that love could happen. Basically, this is one way that something positive could potentially unfold. Thanks for letting me play.
So I have decided to summarize what everyone has written down: A sort of accounting of the group mind.
- People are uncomfortable with the idea of killing off psychopaths, however, others arent. Conflict ensues between this 2 groups. A third solution presents itself, lets just put them into camps.
- Nearly everyone is ok with the idea of identifying who is a psychopath and who is not. Methods vary. What happens after identification is also undecided.
- People are wary of everything getting out of control. See witch hunt, stanley milgram etc etc.
- Next to no one wants psychopaths in high positions making decisions that affects the rest of humanity.
- Others think, lets find out more about psychopathy. Where can they be useful, can they interact with normal humanity in any way shape or form in a non-negative manner?
- What about the rest of humanity? Concern that the act of removing psychopaths and the consequences there in are not well understood. Look at pseudo psychopaths, psychopath wannabe's etc.
- Concern that without psychopathic way, civilisation and our way of life stops. Look at corporations, agriculture, economy etc. Who is willing to sacrifice those and pay the consequences?
- Are people really willing to change themselves? Are people really willing to pay as G puts it? A qn no one knows the answer to and under what circumstances would people be willing to change?
- oh yes, others want aliens to solve the problem.
Few things that stand out where agreement is met.
- Increase awareness of psychopaths. Identify psychopaths.
- Change value system to reward non-psychopathic traits. Make it good to be a normal human being again. The whole system stands in the way of this though. How badly do people want to be human again? Are people willing to look beyond themselves?
So all in all even if there is disagreement, I think it is a good sort of disagreement because the disagreement only shows that a solution has not been reached. The solution has to encompass and account for ALL humanity unless that is just a fictional story in itself. Maybe we need to look beyond humanity and encompass the whole natural environment we live in.
>>Few things that stand out where agreement is met.
- Increase awareness of psychopaths. Identify psychopaths.
- Change value system to reward non-psychopathic traits. Make it good to be a normal human being again. The whole system stands in the way of this though. How badly do people want to be human again? Are people willing to look beyond themselves?<<
This seems to be the consensus of all views and those two items aren't bad at all! Who knows what might happen, what solution might become obvious, if a lot more people were aware?
If isolation of psychopaths is a solution, what about their non-psychopath children born in isolation?
I thought of a solution. Frequency mis-match. The Cs are always talking about STO and they say we are STS and cannot be STO. Ok so maybe STO is a fools errand given we are safely locked into the STS frequency but what about STO Candidate. As far as I understand, that is something people can be.
Maybe what is needed is for the people to get a very clear understanding of what that is and what that means in an easy to understand way - I for one don't know. Cmon, I don't want to go to uni and get a degree to be one or understand what one is or have to be Einstein to be an STO Candidate, I don't want to have to understand quantum physics, surely it is something the average joe can do. So what is it? What do we have to do? We all know what it means to be STS, almost as clear as day but when it comes to STO Candidate the understanding doesnt match up. So far everything I read about this, it makes it sound so hard, almost so very hard that the mind is defeated almost immediately, no one or very few people can be jesus or Gurdjieff or achilles or odysseus or whatnot, but we are who we are and we number the most and that doesnt discount us from the possibility of being able to rise up and take responsibility for ourselves. People should be made to feel as if it is within there possibility. It shouldn't be about hard or easy, it should be about, is it possible or is it not!!
If people found a way to live by those ideals, to challenge the current paradigm within themselves most importantly, inevitably psychopaths will find it increasingly hard to feed or use and abuse us. Through networks and the resulting frequency mismatch with STS they will have no choice but to withdraw.
This doesnt look like quantum physics to me. If people can be educated to think the world is the center of the universe, God Dammit they can be educated to think we have been lied to since day one and that there is another way or at least get them to understand that they have a choice...
So yah, just going to go ahead and stick that into the mixer.
"Among the Yupik Eskimos, for example, the word "kunlangeta" is used to describe a man who lies, steals, cheats and takes sexual advantage of women. In an 1976 study of the Yupik, Harvard anthropologist Jane M. Murphy asked a tribal elder what the community did when a kunlangeta appeared among them. He replied, "Someone pushes him off the ice when no one else was looking."
[Link]
from what I've gathered and hypothesized, involves the ritual of regicide, and small-scale hand-to-hand combat. Far-fetched I know, but listen. Many cultures (from The Golden Bough) have practiced regicide. Basically, one man bests all others in a series of competitive ordeals: foot races, solving the Gordian Knot, sword in the stone, etc. This one man then reigns supreme for usually 7 years--end of which, he must ritually sacrifice himself. The people take the sacred body parts home to bury in the garden to replenish and give back to Momma.
Up until the early 20th century this was still practiced in Southern India (Golden Bough). Anyways, this petty-king would then naturally make war against his neighbors. I believe these skirmishes happened almost seasonally (think American football). All the young men go out to meet all the other young men from another tribe/kingdom. They then taunt, try to out-maneuver, basically, to subdue the other team, or at least to humiliate them.
Often during these war games hand-to-hand combat ensues. For warriors who have developed a bond with their fellows, this leads to a stalemate--one cannot land a solid blow without receiving one in return. So these games allow men to develop skills and to bond. I submit that maybe a little Hitchcockian criss-cross occurs: you kill ours we kill yours, see. This makes sense to me, although I have never served in combat. I can easily see that a team of men whose survival depends upon absolute trust would willingly sacrifice the consummate strife-makers.
Today we still accept that every generation should have it's war--that young men should go away, that some should die, and others come home with that terrible wisdom.
If this little model bears any validity, it would mean that any given clan would only have one psychopath, and that with unlimited power, but only for a short period--also subject to sacrifice at any sign of divine displeasure, e.g. famine. I also note many similarities between narcissism and courtly behavior. I think we may have entrapped the pathologicals by keeping them in plain sight, locked in the castle. The regular demands of leadership in battle further kept these individuals subject to the popularity and loyalty of their men. That's how I see it anyway, thanks for listening.
Luke said:
"I don't want to go to uni and get a degree to be one or understand what one is or have to be Einstein to be an STO Candidate, I don't want to have to understand quantum physics, surely it is something the average joe can do. So what is it?"
G.I. Gurdjieff said:
"What is important is to gather the soul of things, the spirit and not the form. Forget the words, the details; this is nothing; but keep in yourself the substance, what is behind. It is this that you must accumulate in yourself. It is this which, depositing itself in you, will create little by little a subjective understanding which will really be yours; for example, in what you write, amongst all those words, all the useless, all that which objectively has no value, perhaps there is one small flash of diamond. It is that which you have to search for, collect and accumulate in yourself."
If psychopaths lack the "God mind," why are their lives any more precious than livestock?
Kill 'em and quickly before they bring on any more harm.
Secondly, we don't really 'recognise' what psychopaths are, what they do and how damaging they are, at least most people don't. This is perhaps because we either are not blessed with the ability to 'see' - or perhaps we have been conditioned, or programmed to think a certatain way in order to blind us to certain things.
Thirdly, those that view us as livestock? What do we really know about them? Especially as ever since WWII, governments world wide have been hiding their presence.
Is the problem 'bigger' than you thought?
If you are going to wait for science to provide some type of solution, then you will be waiting for psychopaths to damn themselves. It isn't ever going to happen. Science is clinical, it is profit driven, it is without morals or appreciation for life. Sure there are scientists that differ, but as a whole science is completely disconnected from the manifestation of God or love.
I meditate on this: that the ability to see, or feel, or sense deception becomes a primary sense in the human psyche. It would take an evolutionary leap, perhaps on a planetary scale of vibration. But it must be possible. If animals can have it, then you know we can too, only it's been lost or hidden by the very people that would be rendered impotent by it.
If you knew someone was deceptive before, during, and after any contact with them, and everyone had that same ability, then the need for laws, and systems, and governments, and war, and most of what we see as evil would be essentially finished. It is through deceptions at all levels that men with insidious intent enslave those who would act as victims.
My personal saying is this: As long as a man can deceive another man there can never be peace. When no man can deceive another there can be noting but peace.
I can't manifest it alone. We can all change the dream to meet this change. It will mean we will have to give up our secret lives, but that's a huge liability to all of us anyway...
History has shown that very often our "solutions" don't work, make the problem worse, or even become completely new problems unto themselves (I don't think examples are necessary).
So when faced with the vast history of our apparent ineptitude when it comes to answering even the most basic questions of how to conduct ourselves in an intelligent, humane, sustainable manner, why do we persist in our belief that only WE have the wisdom, creativity and power to solve those problems? After all, most of the problems we are facing now are the result of our own stupid actions. Perhaps psychopaths have merely helped us along this destructive road more quickly, or maybe even psychopathy is merely an exaggerated symptom of an illness that we all suffer from to some extent, a symptom that is in some is encouraged to incubate and flourish in the particular type of culture that we have created.
At any rate, finding the causes of problems is usually not nearly so useful as finding solutions which is what is the main discussion here. I am not sure how well known the "Gaia Hypothesis" is, (also known as Gaia theory or Gaia principle), but in a few words it is basically a hypothesis put forth by James Lovelock that "all organisms and their inorganic surroundings on Earth are closely integrated to form a single and self-regulating complex system, maintaining the conditions for life on the planet." (quote from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaia_hypothesis)
As we know, throughout this planet's history climatic and other conditions often changed considerably. Sometimes these changes were sudden and many species were wiped out quickly, and other times the changes were so dramatic and long term that few life forms remained unaffected, but life has always found a way to somehow continue and blossom. Is this merely a coincidence, or do the other lifeforms on this planet really know what they are doing? And if the Gaia Hypothesis is correct andthey DO know what they are doing, wouldn't it be possible they also know what WE are doing, and particularly what we are doing WRONG? And if they know what we are doing wrong and have fixed things during difficult times before, maybe they have a plan to set things right in these difficult times too?
Hey, this is not some radical New Age "Earth Mother" speculation either. Until modern "civilized" people came along and started trashing the place, our ancestors had a deep belief in the power of the earth, the wisdom of the trees and all the other things in the universe and were awed and humbled by it and the teachings it had to offer, and placed themselves in the care of these beings. By doing so they managed to live here a hell of a lot longer than we have, and without trashing the place to boot. So maybe all we need to do is stop "DOING", and start "LISTENING", because maybe the other lifeforms on this planet have a plan for the psychopaths and other human ills that we as yet have yet to or perhaps can never comprehend.
[Link]
Lyrics:
"Dead In The Water"
People stand in line
People stand in line
People stand in line
A premonition of the killers angel eyes
An armageddon sky tell it like it is
It's like the old man says
We're dead in the water now
Dead in the water
They come from miles around
They come from miles around
They come from miles around
In avarice and love
To suckle on the blood
Of some forgotten god
Sell it like it is
It's like the old man says
We're dead in the water now
We're dead in the water now
Dead in the water
A simple act of faith
A simple act of faith
A simple act of faith
A celebration of the colour and the creed
The cancer and its seed
Crackles on the mic
Can call it what you like
We're dead in the water now
We're dead in the water now
Dead in the water
All that STO needs to do is 'step up' and balance out these dudes. That's all it takes. Perhaps that's all that it requires?
"As it was in the days of Noah..." ?
as i've been reading this article and the comments, i could not help but wonder and consider everyone's point of view, and was later reminded of Political Ponerology's last charpter, and it's probably the "solution" to the "problem" per se that i would most agree with, the issue cannot be moralized, it needs to be understood and studied as objectively as possible, and a strong knowledge core is necessary.
namely, psychopaths are not really the "problem" as much as ignorance is, when reading PP he would describe how as soon as the political system was ponerized, the teachers and academic programs were immediately changed, and i think that's where the clue lies, an extermination serves the purpose of taking your bad tooth out without learning what is causing the problem and then running the risk of living on a repeating syndrome.
so a way out of this situation is complex and would take years, for as said above, it wold require a re education of the masses, and a change of curriculums of every grade in school years, to make people aware of this distinction of beings in our society, from childhood, but this then would require an explosion of knowledge on the already based conventional wisdom a priori, which is not likely, specially if psychopathic types are in charge of this (media and stuff).
so awareness, knowledge, and networking sincerely and for a common purpose seems to my knowledge, the only real "weapon" we have against them, in every interaction we have specially with little children, gear conversations towards awareness, our kids, cousins, friends, it will be only through individual action that our efforts will go un noticed and may have a chance at effecting a change, and retaliation (from psychopaths) will only be counteracted by the core that this knowledge and network forms in us.
for i think that in such a case of "let's exterminate them" if i have learned something about psychopaths, is that they feel no empathy, so as soon as the ball starts rolling on that direction, they would use the first victims of this extermination to fit their own ends ("less of us..more for me" so to speak), and we would end up in the same spot, only with better adapted for recognition psychopaths.
which would make the situation as i said above really complex, just my 2 humble cents, i am still pondering about this and figured i would post this as a start point, it's an evolving idea, and as Ryan said above, it did raise a lot of very important questions.
thanks
And that is what SOTT tries to do daily. It's also the reason we come under so much attack. It seems that this really is the one biggie that the PTB do NOT want people agreeing on.
Advantages: Simple, fast.
Disadvantages: non-preemptive, too late
I think, killing psychopaths isn't the problem. The problem is the great damage they have done by the time life-loving normal people are cornered and forced into the decision of killing psychopaths. Too valuable normal people are killed or being indirectly made to die and priceless natural living environment is lost by Psychopath Action, by the time normal people realize irreparable losses.
Therefore the only solution to the Psychopath-Problem is finding a preemptive way in order to minimize damage caused by psychopaths. Working out a good polyvagal test method for example, like how Replicants were tested + agitated & caught in Blade Runner.
That's funny. I thought the punchline of Blade Runner was that Deckard himself was a replicant.
It would be interesting to know how many innocents were sent to the gas chamber by "infallible" polygraph tests, and how many are now rotting in prison because of "infallible" DNA evidence. As the majority of so-called normal people switch on the news night after night and witness every kind of atrocity without batting so much as an eyelid, how do you think they'd fair under such a test?
It's interesting to me that this debate was sparked off by a SOTT reader who, that same day, threatened to shoot another SOTT reader because he was a scientologist. Did you read that? Did you bat an eyelid?
Humanity = addiction. Biggest one = addiction to lies.
Cs said the fall happened because of self gratification which is a form of addiction, mainly to a lie, believing the lies gives you a sense of reward? Imbalance ensues and you go on seeking bigger,better, more perverted lies. So throughout our existence we have been living the lives of addicts/junkies. In comes nature, hello psychopathy, natures very in your face way of bringing this issue to the foreground. What do they excel in, LIES! They will lie to you a million different ways, in the most elegant and charismatic form and you will fall for it. You will sell your soul and planet for a lie. Why? Because there can be no other way. The addiction has to play itself out. I read somewhere here recently that addiction is a disease and it is not about will power. Maybe those guys were on to something. A cure has to be thorough and well integrated otherwise you are bound to relapse. Most importantly, the addict must be willing to face his addiction. Is humanity willing to face its addiction? Looking out my window, I think at least according to me, the answer is a solid NO.
Look at agriculture, grains etc. Apparently they are meant to be very addictive, but they only got invented like 10000yrs ago, maybe nature decided to kick it up a gear since no one was getting the message. Those very clever psychopaths then proceed to say, 'Yes lads, good job, agriculture is one of the most IMPORTANT accomplishments, KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK', and stupid us as predicted believe them blindly. If nothing in nature just happens for no good reason, and you have to admit agriculture is a force of nature just like psychopathy, then MAYBE nature is SHOUTING something at us. YOU ARE ALL ADDICTS, You dumb F*****, when will you get the message!! Excuse my language. Maybe it is just trying to make this fact as clear as DAY! Let us not forget the various other pit stops to our current position, Capitalism, Monotheistic religions e.t.c. What was that about if you ignore nature, it throws a bill board in your face? Well humanity as a whole can't even read the dam thing. Is it really psychopathy that is the problem, or is it our blindness? They say psychopaths are ignorant because they will destroy us and them in the process, maybe it is us who are the truly ignorant ones and in order not to face our addiction, psychopaths become a sort of scapegoat. Not that I am saying they arent a huge part of the problem.
Just a thought.
Am I off-base? What causes the tragedy? Is it an oversimplification to just say, addiction? Maybe the stories are how to deal with this, there consequences, what happens if you don't etc. Maybe?
Psychopaths are bound by genetics, simply by measuring brain wave activity to images designed to trigger emotional responses, they are readily exposed. Whilst they can readily adjust the external emotional appearance, they can not alter what is going on within their mind. A lack of emotional reaction and an attempt to control that emotional surge versus simple conscious scheming to create a false visual emotional response, to fool those around them.
The catch with just restricting their activity rather than full isolation is, the single defining emotion, frustration at those around them for what ever reason, is never alleviated, the more constrained the more likely the true ticking time bomb, the psychopath themselves going off on a carefully planed out murderous killing spree and that is a realistic outcome for the majority of them who a prevented from relieving their frustrations by harming all those around them.
You might think of it like this, the narcissist is an individual born without an empathic response to others, the psychopath is an individual born without empathic response to themselves, they are emotionally empty and loathe those around them that feel and share emotions.
There are alotta comments here. But I'll add my 2 cents or less anyway...I work in the desert and encounter all sorts of dangerous beasts such as rattlesnakes, lynxes, mountain lions, javalinas, coral snakes, etc etc. I navigate my way around them without getting hurt because I have learned their ways and can even come within a short distance of them with no fear. I can do this because I have respect for what they are capable of doing, and remain as vigilant as I possibly can. That's not to say that I am safe. Because if one of these creatures does get too close and acts in what I percieve to be a threatening manner, then I take the next action necessary. I don't want to kill the creature, but if it's my life or a loved one's life on the line, then you bet your ass I am going to do what I have to do.
I treat psychopaths in the same way.
However the fear of lossing that which you have worked your entire life to build, can lead to significant harm to your soul, your experiences, your free will, your interactions, your endeavors and your knowledge.
It sort of seems that psychopaths would not fare to well if we simply stopped engaging them. We don't need to kill them as they lack the wherewithal to survive on their own. They NEED us to be compassionate in order to do what they do, as manipulation is their word of the day! They would seem more like a parasitic organism, in their relationship to other human's. If other humans simply ignored them then they could not live on their own - however avoidance / disobedience is a choice that we indeed make of our own free will. Imagine how difficult it would be to avoid a psychopath if he or she was a sibling? The choice to avoid / ignore / disobey - no matter how distasteful - is still a choice, and from experience it is not an easy one to make.
It may well be that psychopaths are a biologic test of humanity, and probably a test that we fail if we think killing them is a solution because it would have terrible consequences for our own souls.
No, the problem really isn't bigger than I thought. You see, unlike a lot of people, I see a BIG difference between who START something and those who END it.
If they are mortal, they can be killed; if they are a threat, they should be killed.
If they are NOT psychopaths, merely evil, what better lesson than removing
them from this world to contemplate their evil behavior in 5th density? If they manage to kill us in the process, so what? At least we are spared dealing with this garbage anymore. I can't conceive that
a "loving" God (especially if WE are that God) will release us to a "better" place after putting us through this. So, it's going to be just as bad, worse or nothing at all.
I try to be virtuous because I find regret to be real hell; and, regret includes letting the "bad guys" win without a fight. Heck, even Gandhi said he would choice violence over cowardice, and I'm a lot closer to Jefferson than Gandhi.
With a few obvious exceptions - like Atilla the Hun, the authors of the Inquisitions, the Rothschilds, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and some Western leaders too controversial to name - individual psychopaths aren't the real problem. The problem is 'the system', as Lobaczewski outlined.
What he described in his book, Political Ponerology, were extreme examples of totalitarian societies, but in the West ever since the mid 19th century psychopaths have twisted politically liberal but fiscally conservative capitalism into a travesty of its original intended design and transformed it into a ruthlessly fascist financial capitalism that's controlled by a tiny cabal of murderous usurers and swindlers who seek to own, control and plunder the world for their own power lust and the benefit of their family bloodlines - the international bankers.
Read the history of the Rothschilds, from subversion of European monarchs and politicians in the 18th century through consolidation and failed attempts to seize control of the US money supply in the 19th century, to triumph followed by two world wars in the early to mid 20th century, followed by seizing Palestine to establish Israel. [Link]
After another 50 years of consolidation and subversion of the US political process, the transformation of the US into a pathological empire to impose their 'new world order' on us is nearly complete.
The must be stopped or the Earth is doomed. This 'system', if it's not destroyed and rebuilt on responsible human foundations, is set to cause heartbreaking human misery and planet-wide devastation.
Because the psychopaths would know it exists. They'd be forewarned. And ultimately, the professors are equally guilty in the entrapment.
If the button were not there to be pushed and the professor baiting the psychopath into acting, the act would likely not have occurred. That is not to say it couldn't happen, but setting up to happen creates a conundrum where guilt permeates the situation. Like encouraging a dog to bite intentionally.
Yes I now this is only a hypothetical, however, I prefer the pariah treatment. Educating the populace against being duped by psychopaths is the answer. But then we're opening up an entirely new can of worms with the 'education system'. An industry fraught with store-bought liars hand molded by the powers that be.
For not a harmonious member of this discussion, but rather being a source of confusion. Sorry. I got really excited that we are talking about what's to be done, or undone. I started jumping up and down and thinking sideways. I'll try to be more on the same moment with you guys, as I am so grateful to get to share in this courageous action--this website and discussion I mean.
If I could, I'd also like to pick up some ideas, about self-work, 4th way stuff. Personally I couldn't even have comprehended Gurdjieff's writings until I'd gone to "spiritual kindergarten"--for me that was/is the 12-step fellowships. Now that I am familiar with that program, the similarities to the 4th way practices are pretty extensive.
To clarify, I came to see my various emotional wounds as like having a fish hook in my flesh, and worse, a puppet-string attached. Any ole' controller could clearly see my strings and get me to dance. The 12 steps have gotten most of them out and healed, or at least made me aware of the strings and the dances I've done in the past.
Anyway, there are something like 200 different 12 step groups, internationally and all for free, each of which addresses a different human foible. There are, of course, many sick individuals in these meetings, but there is also a relative degree of safety or anonymity. This aspect has allowed me to see what my own defective traits look like from the outside, and also to gain greater and greater immunization to the trauma such sickness inflicts. Sorry again for being a weiner.
I am just throwing that out there, as finding a Gurdjieff group, and engaging in a 4th way practice has been anything but easy, except of course for the gift of you guys and this website.
Well, perhaps 'thou shall not kill' came from psychopaths in the first place. As we can see from the Odyssey, they were shown no mercy if found lacking in hospitality. I'm leaning towards the Ulysses remedy these days. I've had enough of this evil running rampant on the planet, but I also think we're out of time.