"Damn you, Russia!"
At the hearing, prosecutors sought to have Saakashvili placed under house arrest after he refused to answer questions from the SBU (Ukraine's security service). After refusing to speak, he revealed the dark hand of Putin to the media, accusing President Poroshenko of colluding with Putin to manufacture the charges against him. What charges? That Saakashvili himself is an agent of Putin! What a tangled web of Russian agents we have here.
Arch Russia-hater Mikheil Saakashvili accuses his arch enemy Poroshenko of being a Putin tool. Arch Russia-hater Poroshenko in turn is accusing Saakashvili of being a Putin tool. It doesn't get any better than this, folks. Talk about slap stick comedy! Just a couple weeks ago, famous Russian phone pranksters "Vovan and Lexus" rang up Poroshenko pretending to be calling from the Georgian special services. In their conversation, Poroshenko told them, "We found the connection between Mikheil Saakashvili and Russian special services. They financed him. We caught them red-handed."
RFE/RL's coverage of the recent charges levelled against Saakashvili reiterate Poroshenko's accusation:
Ukrainian Prosecutor-General Yuriy Lutsenko has accused Saakashvili, the former governor of Ukraine's Odesa region, of abetting an alleged "criminal group" led by Ukraine's former President Viktor Yanukovych, who fled to Russia after his ouster in February 2014.Saakashvili insists this evidence was fabricated by the SBU "with the involvement of" the Russian FSB:
Ukrainian authorities also claim that protests led by Saakashvili in Ukraine are part of a Russian plot against the government in Kyiv.
Part of the evidence presented in the case is a recording of an alleged telephone conversation between Saakashvili and a pro-Russian Ukrainian businessman who is hiding in Russia.
Lutsenko has charged that the businessman, Serhiy Kurchenko, offered Saakashvili money to organize protests and public disorder in Ukraine, and that Saakashvili accepted a half-million-dollar payment.
Saakashvili, who attended the January 3 Kyiv hearing with his wife and a son, denies all charges.
"The so-called forensics saying it was proven that my so-called conversation with Kurchenko was authentic has a lot of flaws," Saakashvili said.Here's what Saakashvili reportedly said about Poroshenko:
"First of all, I refused to give them a voice sample when I was interrogated by the SBU security service," he said.
"In spite of that, they were able to present forensic conclusions saying that the voice on the tape is mine," Saakashvili said. "But their own expert says in the documentation that the forensic team didn't have a proper voice sample to make a thorough analysis."
"This reminds me of the old Soviet style when authorities proved the authenticity of whatever they themselves claimed," he said.
"A source from the presidential administration informed me that I was being deprived of my citizenship, then my arrest. Now the same source said that on December 21 there was a conversation between Putin and Poroshenko, where apart from the exchange of prisoners, it was actually about me. It was to give an order (to businessman Sergey) Kurchenko to give testimony against me."Recall that Saakashvili is wanted for crimes he committed in his home country, Georgia. He filed an appeal in Ukraine to be recognized as a refugee or "person in need of additional protection". That appeal was denied yesterday. RFE/RL continues:
Saakashvili has said Ukrainian authorities were seeking to deny him the protection status to "create conditions" for his "expulsion from the country" so he can be extradited to Tbilisi, where he faces multiple charges -- including abuse of his presidential powers and complicity in the 2006 murder of a Georgian banker.Aside from every Ukrainian living in the Donbass, countless "separatists supporters" living in the rest of Ukraine, Saakashvili, and Poroshenko, there are some more potential Kremlin agents, according to SBU head Vasily Hrytsak: the 74 Ukrainian POWs released by the Donbass leadership in the recent prisoner exchange with Kiev:
"Ten minutes ago a trial against me started in Tbilisi, the same time as in Kyiv," Saakashvili said during his Kyiv hearing on January 3. "Do you think it's by chance? Oligarchs are able to make deals. But they could have at least decided on different times."
On the question of whether the SBU will check the released Ukrainian hostages for possible recruitment by Russia, he replied: "Yes, of course, we will question them regarding the circumstances of their captivity. There is such a thing as a counter-intelligence survey, and we will definitely carry it out."Rumor has it that the technique used by the Kremlin-imported torture masters in Donetsk and Lugansk is simply to tell Ukrainian soldiers/prisoners the truth: that they are being lied to by their government; that the targets they have been ordered to destroy are schools, apartments, hospitals; that the "separatists" don't want war - they just want to be left alone by the corrupt, coup-installed government in Kiev. Some Ukrainian conscripts see the light. Ergo, they are agents of the Kremlin. Only a spy for Putin could believe such ludicrous propaganda.
A counter-intelligence survey is conducted when the circumstances of the captivity are not fully understood.
"We are fully aware that physical and psychological pressure is being applied to our servicemen, and to all citizens of Ukraine who are or were in captivity, some of whom are recruited by Russia into agents," he said.
As bad as the anti-Russian hysteria in the Anglo-sphere is, it's worse in Ukraine. People are thrown in prison for the thought crime of "sympathizing with the Russian-backed separatists", tortured and killed for the crime of fighting against an illegal government that promised to wipe out their culture. Ukraine is also broke. The government is as corrupt or more corrupt than it has ever been. Real neo-Nazis not only have their own militias - they are part of the government. And the political climate is so paranoid that the latest Poroshenko/Saakashvili comedy show was totally predictable. Everyone is potentially - or in fact - a Russian agent. Sad, but also funny, because it's true.
The only thing funnier would be if Russia really was pulling the strings of this tragicomedy: giving token support to the most vile Russophobes, thus giving them all just enough rope to hang themselves as they all accuse each other of colluding with the enemy they have sworn to demonize and destroy. Just as Russiagate is falling to pieces in the U.S. - thus destroying the reputation of entire institutions such as the DNC, FBI and DOJ - Ukraine is falling to pieces. And all that the major players can do as they draw their last political breaths is eke out the final political death rasp: "It was Russia! Russia...! RUSSSSIAAAAAAA!!!!!!"
Reader Comments
Wash, rinse, repeat.
And better than even that/ the above, is that Saak O'Shit-villi is now denouncing HIMSELF as a tool of Putin.
Whatever.
Even in our nationally owned "Orlando Weekly", a (supposedly) liberal'- better said - Politically Correct (US Version) Down on Trump & Killary Was Going to be Our Now Lost SAVIOR..et al...rag..is STILL claiming that the US election process was stolen by 'foreign interference, (Article by J. Billman, Jan.3, 2018 Edition) with no reference to the countless other points showing the lies behind that false claimnt.
At least Syria counts as a 'win' on the chalkboard of oppression by by West's Materialistic Empire vs. the rest of the World's prayers of 'Please!? Just let us be! Please just leave us alone. You claim to come to 'help' but all and every one of your results is the only 'help' involved, in your, (the West's) efforts, is your predetermined goals to 'help yourself' to the assets of your conquests while spouting platitudes that are 180 degrees from you strategies, tactics, and intended results.
R.C.
If, as is likely, so, then he gave them one in his process of 'denying' them one. (And he's apparently so stoopid as to not even be aware of the stupidity of what he claimed - likely and/ore also on TV, giving other voice prints - ) and he's not aware of that either.
Wanna bet he'll change his story line on this point?
R.C.
this brings up the
Quote of the Day - which I ask SOTT to open to commenting response. - Stanley Cohen
The scientific discourse is a specialised form of 'define, predict and control' over experience, and of the defined causes and meanings of such experience. Technologism serving
Denial of our true nature makes us blind to our true nature, and fearfully defended against it - while seeking to substitute a manually operating 'command and control' narrative over our conditioned experience.
What is defence against true nature but a mind predicated upon the covering over and diversion from guilt, fear and conflicted self?
What are all the deceits and devices that 'THEY' use, but the bringing to light of the mind of deceit' as it works in US all - but takes different forms. For deceit can mask in any form of 'accepted' reality.
Becoming self-honestly vigilant to our own triggers of guilt, fear and negative reaction, is opening the bread-crumb trail home.
The undoing of what fear seems to have made real is not such a go forth and conquer crusade, but rather a desire and willingness for healing. To receive a perception of a guiltless world is freedom from the attempt to judge and control life, others and world from a fearfully defined sense of self-apart. But while we WANT to see the enemy out there and hate them, we are simply not open to the awareness of the movement of original being. Our mind is engaged in its own complexity. But to create without love is to define ourself and world love-less.
Reality does not arouse emotions. Only an interpreted and accepted definition of reality arouses an emotional response. Reality in its capital R sense has one attribute; Is. Our participation within infinitely shared reflection and perspective operates from the movement of the focus within All That Is, which is the ever changing play of idea in Mind.
What you give out is what you get back. What else COULD arise from guilt and fear but such a (perceived, believed and suffered) world? What else could come back into awareness as a result of a true undoing or healing of the guilted mind but Coherence?
Mark me here though, that the undoing or removal of guilt is not something we can Do. But the facing, noticing, owning or honest acknowledging of what we are already 'doing' that allows the shift or change to a more truly aligned perspective.
By movement to hide or deny - we make real to a mind in denial, and suffer what we made. Guilt makes this a punishment, but dissonance of being is simply the nature of being out-of-true within yourself. The narrative or mythic sense of self was grown to protect the persistence in narrative identity. In this we are doing what we thought we wanted, while suffering as if it is being done to us.
Another term for denial is a split or dissociated mind that knows not what it does - while believing it gets rid of its denial-consequence on 'others' by setting them as a target for un-owned (unconscious) dissonance assigned meanings of 'justified' hate that seems 'righteously gratifying' to sacrifice for the persistence of a fantasy in self-specialness.
We cannot run 'self-specialness' without denial of awareness of true. But in owning and noticing it, we can allow it to serve an awakening truth, instead of a denial agenda.
These human flaws, (which it appears you are directing at SOTTites, and, in particular, our supposed 'conscious unawareness of such things which give rise to cognitive processing problems (problems in thinking through situations logically at all steps before coming to a tentative opinion/conclusion) - e.g., social programming lies conflicting with reality causing cognitive dissonance, etc.
Am I right in saying that it appears that you are saying that this more particularly applies to SOTT commenters? If such is the case, what is the basis for your claim, aside from running through some Psych 101 textbook?
I would say SOTT folks are far, far more self aware than any group of commenters I've ever encountered online. Do you have a site recommendation where the commenters and writers are MORE open minded?
Do you apply these 'unknown to the conscious mind' flaws to:
- everyone who comments everywhere, equally?
- to SOTT folks in particular?
- do such flaws apply or not apply to you?
If such flaws apply to all to the point of making anyone's opinions not worthy of analysis, how is yours different?
From the above, and more particularly, your earlier efforts here, I have concluded that you are a more clever than your av-er-age bear of a troll,{ } which is exactly the left handed compliment it seems. (Similarly, I could say you're a better than average online harlot, if that makes any difference.)
Do you get paid? Brownie points? Are you one of the 10 (really = 100) alternate online ID's which the US Army claims it restricts its 'online persuaders' said number of ten per each online persuader/whore, where if busted and it's shown that the number of alternate personas per whore/ 'persuader' is really 100, the argument by the Army Spokesperson of Disinformation will then claim that the 10 per whore resulted from a decimal point error in the declassification process, or such.
What other ID's do you use? What's your pay grade?
R.C.
I think what Binra is trying to say, is this:
"[Reports] that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know. [And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries,] it is the latter category that tend to be the difficult ones"
- Donald Rumsfeld - February 2002
This morning i reflected on Matrix I. I guess it fits in here. The Good The Bad and those sneeks in between who actually end up more dangerous than the Bad. O_O
I guess ste-trinité is everywhere to be found.
Борис.