MindMatters: Susannah Hays Interview: Polyvagal Theory, Gurdjieff and the Evolution of Man

hmm. interesting. i did not even know there existed something called the "body's polyvagal system". but then, what do i know? never stop learning 🤗 [Link] 🤔

Six minutes in, none of what this woman is talking about is actually manifesting in the way she speaks. This constant downward, I'd-rather-not-be-here tone, weary forced smile and general air of total resignation. If WYSIWYG, what's the point?

‘Spirit to enter them...’ ‘Safe Spaces’ ‘Trans-discipline’ ???

Can anybody elaborate on ‘Spirit to enter them...’ most people seem to have a spirit that’s their own, even if underdeveloped, unrefined and overcompensated by some persona-lity...

Is she talking about possession?

‘Spirit to enter them..

Yeah, the spirit of the cardboard.

It's an unfortunate and somewhat frequent occurence that people who come across the Fourth Way canon, suck it all up like a fly eating liquid sugar, then go on to devote themselves to doing the exact opposite of those ideas. Joining and forming spirit-of-the-cardboard colonies of one sort or another, writing cardboard-y books, appearing in cardboard-y podcasts, etc. It's insufferable.

Well, I'd read the autobiography. She doesn't need the hauteur of some new age guru with a permanent smile out of the book Siddhartha pretending to resemble Jesus Himself or something.

Anyway her perspective clears up some things.

Man...her Jim Jones followers are thick...and incoherent.

At 25:50:00 Harrison asks a question about "Polyvagal" theory. The reason she's on the podcast. But she punts the whole question into Puff the Magic Question. Well it's too high and difficult for you pleas....do listen again. Doctor Hays really has little use for inconsequential morons like you and me. Just get her erudite words into mainstream. So she can lecture us all on what Gurdjieff and his ilk really meant. Yes...you...morons! /sarcasm/

"We need Oprah" to get her message out. Come on...and then she trashes the very platform she is on. Where SOTT is a "garage radio show"..but hahh haha. She is happy to lower her self to you MORONS to get her message out!

God...shovel her some antidepressants and a few antipsychotics. Maybe a pill for an understanding of humanity as well. I hope Jospeh Azizzi gets winds of this and stays away from this narcissist-psychotic. Really!!

Just the comments are enough - thanks everyone.

I think anyone who'd had even a small amount of success with regard to 'self-remembering', 'connecting ones inner and outer worlds', etc, could look at five minutes of that interview even with the sound off and tell that this woman has got everything arse-over-tit.

I only made it through the first ten minutes of eye-rollings, so as regards polyvagal theory, I assume this is based on Gurdjieff utterings in Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson re 'the wandering nerves'.

Will probably come back and listen to the rest later.

Yes, start listening at 1:06:00 to 1:07:10...she says it.

I accept a spiritual perspective as the First, from which a split mind of fragmentation develops as the basis for experience.

So 'wired for connection' is redundant to always already connected - but the experience of anything is always through SOME differentiation - but not necessarily set as polarised conflict. Refractive colours (or qualities of light) do not compete such much as complement, contrast and share in the nature of light.

That there are physiological as well as symbolic representations of the internalised structural conditionings or framework of definition and core belief is - well of course - but the attempt to generate a myth for our existence from observed conditions has to also fully accept that the parameters of our conceptual and perceptual instrument are generating the full experience as a total expression - now.

Because we are in a linear mind of unfolding cause and effect we are unaware of the deeper nature of Cause-Event as Synchronicity or total connection - as this moment of experience.

That Meaning extends FROM wholeness rather than as a result of All the king’s horses and all the king’s men is in the formless qualities of Life Being - that is lost to a mind set in 'separation trauma' as it object condition.

The lockdown into a masked reality is being reflected in its current covid reiteration.

See The Pattern.

I listened until the end, raising an eyebrow at the Oprah remark,came to the conclusion that my failure to comprehend much was due to being unaware of Dr Porges work. His website is mainly concerned with trauma and one is greeted with a COVID-19 Survey. They would like to know how you are coping with this pandemic. Of course your info will not be shared but maybe disclosed if required by Law.!

Artists Lindhal and Hays wish to promote Objective Art, ( conscious) which if I have understood correctly, they claim is superior to subjective art. ('freed 'from consciousness) The Vagus Nerve and Gurdjieff studies has given their work a boost. Here I disagree as I think many painters and musicians often start from subjective doodles or melodies then flesh out consciously, therefore both work in harmony. I sense pretension, one one-upmanship in this desire for superiority.

Whilst I appreciated the artistic work of both I did not feel that their art was in anyway higher, superior or transcendent.

‘Lentrohamsanin’, or Objective Reason without Objective Conscience’.

Extract from ‘Alfred Orage’s commentaries on Gurdjieff’s ‘ Beelzebub’s Tales to his Grandson’’.

Lentrohamsanin‘s critique was that of a good philosopher but a pure rationalist-Objective Reason without Objective Conscience. His views was that man was created for service therefore he was a slave. Plausibly, and craftily he proposed to repudiate this service and attain to absolute freedom. He considered it possible to attain this without making the effort entailed in conscious labor and voluntary suffering.

In one sense Lentrohamsanin was the forerunner of our spiritual ancestor, the Greeks and the Romans, who are regarded by us as the beginning of civilization-anything before them being barbarous and barbaric. But Gurdjieff says that the ancient Babylonian civilization was far superior to the Greeks, which latter descends, not from Ashiata Shiemash but from Lentrohamsanin-the rationalist with no higher emotional urge.

In each of us Lentrohamsanin tries to undo the work of Ashiata Shiemash-an unconscious force working against a conscious force. In this Work, the work that we are engaged in, some people in whom knowledge has outstripped understanding may not be able to endure the suffering which follows-the sense of guilt, remorse, self-reproach, the despair at feeling that they are unable to do anything about themselves. This is the dark night of the soul.

Some may go off at a tangent, looking for an easier way, the way of a philosophical school for example; or an Eastern cult unsuited to the Western Psyche; or they may become Lentrohamsanins and, with the best of all egotistical motives, actually become opposed to the work. This Work is a strong positive, as Gurdjieff says: ‘A strong positive provokes a strong negative’. Lentrohamsanin is the personification in us of the unwillingness to bear the suffering that is necessary to obtain Objective Conscience parallel with the attaining of Objective Reason.

I'm getting towards the half hour mark now.

OMG. The intonation. It's like with every breath she takes she's secretly willing all the geraniums in my window boxes to die.

Vagal nutrition tip: Raw eggs and cigarettes. Not necessarily at the same time though.

I think one of the reasons for the slug-trail paced delivery, and the....... huge........ gaps........ between..... the words....... in her....... sentences, is: no connection with higher emotional centre.

Higher emotional centre = fast.

Either that, or she's drugged off her nut. Or both.

The Devolution of Man 'm o d e r n i t y 3' [Link]

Outcropping? hmmm, agree, and on second thought it seems to me to be ongoing as well...probably for as long as man has had an unconscious/conscious thought. You know, 'their's one in every family,' which exponentially expands from community, to city, to state, entire planet. Perhaps it's just more in our collective face !

More Devolution: "...I believe we are in as great a crisis as a species as we have ever been. The crisis is not from some seasonal virus (which is a health issue), but it is from ourselves and what we have devolved into as a species (social, cultural, ideological issues)..." -The Year of Disguises [Link]

Did.... er...... anyone..... ummm..... get any...... er....... 'radiating force'..... from..... er...... the....... ummm......... art?

No, me neither.

SOTT: RichardCrabtree Is a standard SOTT Troll spammer.