MindMatters: Kicking the Cluster B-hive with Joshua Slocum: Queen B's, Homosexuality & Dealing with Narcissists

Joey Tavares · 2022-08-05T23:05:00Z

not all gay men like Mousey Ursula paeds

not all gay men enjoy Madonna

not all homos are Borderline PDs

was gonna listen, now, don't wanna

Slaaneshi · 2022-08-05T23:15:09Z

Joey Tavares 👏🏻👏🏼👏🏽👏🏾👏🏿

Joey Tavares · 2022-08-05T23:40:05Z

well met

tx

[Link]

hkoehli · 2022-08-06T00:06:14Z

not all gay men like Mousey Ursula paeds

not all gay men enjoy Madonna

not all homos are Borderline PDs

was gonna listen, now, don't wanna

Too bad. You'd be able to see that neither the guest nor the hosts disagree with any of those statements.

Joey Tavares · 2022-08-06T00:08:08Z

hkoehli I suppose it's all in the introductions made

BluLiteDancing · 2022-08-06T12:27:00Z

Joey Tavares touchy, touchy…so strange your reaction doesn’t sound very open minded or inclusive

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-06T20:23:01Z

hkoehli seriously this was a fantastic discussion, maybe a little heavy, but I learned a lot.

I really admire the discipline and clarity of Joshua's thinking (he is doinga great serviceforso many).

Elon's comments at the 149.00 mark provide great clarity.

I'm halfway through Grimkin and I'm at the part of the role of passion, impulses, to provide the social a social construct; informed by intellect, Divine reason with grace to control physical appetites.

I've ordered Cleckley's book too.

hkoehli · 2022-08-06T20:37:12Z

Nathan Carney Glad you liked it, Nathan! Enjoy the books.

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-06T00:03:41Z

Using the gay terminology, describing themselves as 'active' or 'submission', 'top' or 'bottom', or even 'switch', all indicates that they are 'two people', as many indigenous peoples refer to them. I think it is fair to say that it is borderline personality being normalized to the extent of 'promoted insanity'. Just look how the same people who promote this agenda just fall into dramas and temper tantrums at the slightest mention of a point of view which opposes their celebrated animalization of the human spirit.

This is not said to attack, but to reveal 'the nature of the beast'.

Joey Tavares · 2022-08-06T00:23:51Z

PedroCarpintero [Link]

you're following me around on the boards - speaks volumes

it appears you've a deep rooted revulsion of homosexuality, which I experienced myself before coming to terms with ... myself

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-06T00:46:23Z

Joey Tavares "you're following me around on the boards"

Well, you are writing your comments on every thread, it is not exactly possible to avoid you.

Since we're on the subject, I have actually experimented with these things, and I've come to the conclusion that it is not for me. I've also experienced how it is to be psychologically 'split in two' with the LGBT brainwashing, so if I have a 'revulsion', as you say, it is not founded on blind fanatical fear, but on the fact that I know from personal experience how damaging the nature of the beast to be.

I respect you as a human being, I do not know what you've had to live through, so I cannot judge you, and I will support any cause where people are being badly treated or attacked. I defend your right to express yourself... my question is whether you would defend the right for others who don't share your opinions to express themselves.

Winternights3 · 2022-08-06T00:48:18Z

Joey Tavares JT. I've changed my belief re the subject of sexual orientation.

If one was to start with Man and women, as was the traditional model, expand, Man and man and Women and women.

A natural evolution? The thing that bothers me most is how politicised its become and how its being used to split and divide the population.

When Laws change and alienate the majority, it to me says the system is being manipulated in an unhealthy manner and is not good for the community as a whole.

Sexual orientation is I believe a personal journey and one most men are frightened of.

Joseph Tavares · 2022-08-06T03:43:29Z

Winternights3 Thanks for your courage.

It takes a lot for anyone to break down barriers.

I came to where I am as a natural progression. I have one live child from six viable potentialities. I have no domain as I have no womb.

I have no complaints.

I do have a choice.

Friend, rather than Mate. Though a Mate can indeed be a Friend, I've gone right round the other bend.

I keep to myself. Someday, we'll find one another. Until the, I keep away from anything that is uncontrollably negligent, inculcating, and potentially grooming. See you in September...

Joseph Tavares · 2022-08-06T08:34:53Z

PedroCarpintero I forgot something.

While I was raging against the machine, and having once more to define myself as differing from a group of (at times) harpies (who isn't), I forgot to tell you...

How brave and courageous I think are for telling me about your truth, here in a public forum, where we are nominally anonymized, yet at the same time are clearly adepts and capable of seeing through to the seat of each other's souls.

I know for myself that I spent twenty years fruitlessly trying to find love in a community that was hyper-focused, drug laden, cold, cruel, and morally corrupt.

I've a friend whose wife and he split, four kids, all young adults, as he chose one way over the two they'd accepted as a couple. He, like me, is alone. It's a rotten scene out there.

I do believe (in spooks, oh wait, that's the Cowardly Lion, I was doin'me Tigger before...) that when two men love, regardless of whether there's a physical component, there's something special there.

And I bottom line can't stand people fookin'round with kids. Peace out, Brave Heart. Forgive me forgetting while I was all about me... I'm just a couple of clicks away (it's in the iconography...)

BluLiteDancing · 2022-08-06T12:29:57Z

Joey Tavares Your over the top reaction to the heading of this radio program as well as your reaction to said commenter speaks volumes and portends just what Pedro mentioned in his post might have some relevance. Someone shares their experience that’s different than yours and immediately they are a bigot. classic….

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-06T12:44:13Z

Joseph Tavares There are rules and also there are exceptions, so it is extremely difficult to pigeon-hole anyone with regards to their sexual orientations.

I think it is one thing to be flat-out gay, and another thing to be trying things out and finding out for oneself... and in the worldwide culture we are subjected to, the second option is becoming widely accepted. Whatever the case, it is only 'sin' when one lives in ignorance to the root causes of things, and is able to extract the knowledge that is beyond 'good and bad'. If one is approaching the subject of experimentation in order to know, and if one is truly able to know, then there is no sin involved. The sin is to be stuck in the pigeon-hole, in constant ignorance and not overcoming oneself. Sadly, many gay men remain in that ignorance, which has now become the rule enforced upon everyone as if it is was the most moral thing.

We live in a culture which screams out 'protect the women', but in reality, it is the man who is under constant attack: just look at all the lousy male role models that the culture has given us, from Homer Simpson to Frank Spencer to Victor Meldrew... even the good male role models, often turn out to be scoundrels. In the past, myths and legends were spoken about heroes, brave honourable and chivalrous men, all which helped forged young men to become decent and responsible adults. Nowadays, men are bombarded by a culture which essentially reviles them constantly, whilst guilt-tripping them into thinking that it is the woman who is being mistreated. As a consequence, most men grow up feeling inadequate, only half-men, not worthy, and the 'natural' consequence is that now most men are urged to find 'their other half' in order to complete them.

Another side effect of this cultural attack on men disguised as 'we must protect women' (which was originally the man's role, not the UN's) is that most men grow up with a fear of women, or heterophobia, preventing them from approaching a woman because whilst the man is being culturally demonized completely silently, the woman is being deified out in the open.

We have a lot of bullshit and psychological warfare against us, so if you feel that you are being 'attacked', it is because you are, but not by those who are trying to point this sinister plan out to you, but by the very culture itself that pretends to be your ally.

Winternights3 · 2022-08-06T14:56:42Z

Joseph Tavares Whilst my opinions have changed I still elect to be male and continue with my current partner who's female, I have no leaning to be otherwise.

The sudden development of various sexual/ nonsexual orientations I find highly questionable and how such a diversification can be so rapidly established.

That said, a human mind is not there to be abused because they think, believe or demonstrate a longing to be other than what they were born.

I will however vehemently oppose any further attempts to alienate the major.

To close, I went into Leeds City with my partner to wish one of her colleagues farewell. The pub was an old established pub that was trading incredibly well, very busy.

After a few pints I needed to have a wee, I followed the sign ( Mens ) in doors and made my way to the toilet, only to find the toilet door awash with signs suggesting as to who could enter, literally all the world and its dog.

As I entered I was met with women? Men? Trans, Men and women, I duly went to the urinal and started to pee, if this is progress then I'm all for NOT being part of it.

What 2 individuals do in the privacy of their home is their business but I do not want all the world and its dog glancing at my dick whilst I have a pee.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-06T20:26:19Z

Joey Tavares ease up I know banter when I see it.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-06T21:53:54Z

BluLiteDancing but I also feel bad for snapping at JT because that's wrong.

I didn't mean it JT, just working through something and stress at work.

Joey Tavares · 2022-08-07T02:47:15Z

Winternights3 Thanks for your courage.

It takes a lot for anyone to break down barriers.

I came to where I am as a natural progression. I have one live child from six viable potentialities. I have no domain as I have no womb.

I have no complaints.

I do have a choice.

Friend, rather than Mate. Though a Mate can indeed be a Friend, I've gone right round the other bend.

I keep to myself. Someday, we'll find one another. Until the, I keep away from anything that is uncontrollably negligent, inculcating, and potentially grooming. See you in September...

Joey Tavares · 2022-08-07T02:48:29Z

PedroCarpintero I forgot something.

While I was raging against the machine, and having once more to define myself as differing from a group of (at times) harpies (who isn't), I forgot to tell you...

How brave and courageous I think are for telling me about your truth, here in a public forum, where we are nominally anonymized, yet at the same time are clearly adepts and capable of seeing through to the seat of each other's souls.

I know for myself that I spent twenty years fruitlessly trying to find love in a community that was hyper-focused, drug laden, cold, cruel, and morally corrupt.

I've a friend whose wife and he split, four kids, all young adults, as he chose one way over the two they'd accepted as a couple. He, like me, is alone. It's a rotten scene out there.

I do believe (in spooks, oh wait, that's the Cowardly Lion, I was doin'me Tigger before...) that when two men love, regardless of whether there's a physical component, there's something special there.

And I bottom line can't stand people fookin'round with kids. Peace out, Brave Heart. Forgive me forgetting while I was all about me... I'm just a couple of clicks away (it's in the iconography...)

Winternights3 · 2022-08-07T14:49:20Z

Joseph Tavares " See you in September..." please explain yourself.

Joey Tavares · 2022-08-08T08:50:24Z

PedroCarpintero I can keep it in, or let it out.

Yeah, I will speak up for others who aren't like myself.

I'll put my name out there for it, too.

They may have walked in similar shoes, and yet they are "walking" in their own.

As with a contrarian experiment that claims understanding...

Would that EHS allowed me more time here to answer everyone but I have to let go until next month. There are limits... these are mine.

[Link]

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-14T11:36:36Z

PedroCarpintero Right on. "We have a lot of bullshit and psychological warfare against us, so if you feel that you are being 'attacked', it is because you are,"

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-06T16:38:51Z

I respect Joshua’s journey, or process, as Elan put it. We are all on a journey. We are all on the individual journey of identity, purpose and meaning in our lives. Each person’s journey is unique. We are each faced with the questions: Who am I? Is my life meaningful? Where am I going? Does the process end at the age of 40, 50, 60, 70 or 80? In the Gurdjief system, the danger is that you crystallize into some dogmatic view of yourself and life. In other words, you can no longer change, you are no longer curious. This is one meaning of Jesus’s saying that you must be children to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Gurdjief, in one view, divided an individual man or woman into an unreal part he called false personality, and a real part he called essence. One is the psychological mask we wear in presenting an image to other people, and the other is our authentic self. One is developed as a means of dealing with experience, bad or good, one is your natural being. Personality is acquired, and it takes on the ego identity of a person. This would be called an imaginary identity, which again can be outwardly good or bad. If you see yourself as a victim of life experience, this is an identity. If you see yourself, as a geek, this is your identity.

We can look at identity as what you value in life. In advertising it is youth, white teeth, sexiness, sexual prowess, a sexual mate determined by the beer you drink, partying, pleasure, attractiveness as determined by makeup and hair style, health that is drug dependent, safety, great car and home, financial gain, some form of collective identity, like pro-life, pro-abortion, gay, straight, Golden State Warriors fan, medical doctor, academic, Beyonce fan, Star Wars fan, etc.

One of the most prevalent imaginary identity structures relates to sexuality. If you are overweight, you are unattractive to yourself, and your self image is worthless. If you are attractive, but are not sexually proficient in some manner, you are a failure. If your identity depends on sexual relationships, then it is doomed to failure, because the sexual experience is fleeting and because it is always seeking a new or forbidden fruit to heighten the pleasure. In seeing it this way, it does not matter if your sexual relationship is gay or straight, it leads to a failed connection to another person and a sense of emptiness in oneself. Seen in this way, we seek meaningful relationships with others, and these depend on values of love, loyalty, friendship, common purpose, standing up for others, helping, serving, etc. Joshua has made that shift in consciousness in my view.

Since the purpose of our life is to grow in consciousness, we grow through the choices we make and our reflection on those choices. Some choices take us down, like drugs or alcohol or “free” sexual relationships, some take us up mostly dependent on values or virtues. Some choices are self-serving and narcissistic and others are compassionate and help oneself and others. Then you can begin to look at sexual energy as both life giving and the source of higher consciousness (see Elizabeth Haich’s Sexual Energy and Yoga).

rakarb · 2022-08-13T21:42:03Z

Dwoods44 i do fully agree with your statement i think. but then, i do not understand why/howcome there would be a need for making such statements in the first place.

(i am an ignorant, being here for learning).

rakarb · 2022-08-19T01:02:49Z

Dwoods44 i still do not understand why you think your understandings of planets and old farts are relevant today. 🤔

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-19T03:00:31Z

rakarb What's with the low blows bro?

The 'old farts' are probably people who have walked a lot further in the path than ourselves, have suffered more things than our cry-baby generation would ever have to go through, and for that reason should deserve something of respect.

The planets are also phenomenally much bigger than us, and like the 'old farts', should be considered with some kind of reverence in being bigger than ourselves and good sign posts to reach the heights.

We need something bigger and beyond us in order to guide us, otherwise we would just be guided by our own insignificant instincts and blind desires which would make us smaller.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-19T04:12:34Z

PedroCarpintero 👍that's for sure.

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-21T15:20:07Z

PedroCarpintero Rakarb was earlier in his SOTT life Brakar, but was removed for some reason. He is a troll who tries to provoke. That is why I simply ignore him now.

rakarb · 2022-08-26T22:42:10Z

PedroCarpintero i see old farts as todays influencers/alt media/msm. (some have something going but most...)

rakarb · 2022-08-26T22:53:40Z

Dwoods44 noone likes to be challenged/provoced i guess. call them troll and chicken out 🤗

Eventide · 2022-08-06T19:56:36Z

I think there are a lot of inherent temperamental tendencies associated with being gay or lesbian. These might not show up as genetic, but be just as powerful in their effects on development - and on the lack of ability to use stereotypic societal expectations as behavioral guidelines. So that creates the soil for a generally iconoclastic or nonstandard approach to life.

There is a generally characteristic quality about gay or lesbian people, if they can become comfortable in their own skin, aren't hiding from themselves or the world, and have taken personal responsibility for their own psychological trauma, which is that they are natural anarchists. That's what I sense from Joshua and I love it! He's created a rare and precious alchemy by turning the shit that his upbringing added to that soil into self-knowledge. Due to that alchemical process, he can enrich the soil and grow bounteous crops of wisdom and knowledge.

We can all benefit by people like Joshua, whose life circumstances, met with authenticity and honesty, have enabled him to provide such an example of a life worth living, and a support for others.

parzival · 2022-08-07T03:53:04Z

Speaking of genetics:

*

"Russia has now DIRECTLY accused the DNC Globalists of:-creating and releasing new variants of Coronaviruses, and now Monkeypox, intentionally, for the purposes of political control and world domination.

-using non-consensual experimentation on citizens of the world to create genome specific biological weapons for ethnic cleansing.

-creation and usage of narcotics, such as methamphetamines, on Ukrainian forces to dehumanize them in order to carry out heinous crimes against humanity on civilians in Ukraine..." [Link]

Joyly · 2022-08-07T21:45:22Z

parzival It's great to see Russia stop being the whipping board and lead the way in calling out the west.

parzival · 2022-08-08T03:55:20Z

Joyly Agreed! Isn't that expression whipping boy? My apologies to any boys out there offended... [Link]

Joyly · 2022-08-08T09:44:13Z

parzival I thought so but did not want to type that. That cop has made a career out of apologies - but he has missed the whole point: it has to be sincere.

parzival · 2022-08-09T04:16:28Z

Joyly Yes, that is the whole point to sincere apologies, isn't it. In other news, very sad to see Olivia Newton John lose her battle with cancer. R.I.P.

parzival · 2022-08-07T10:40:36Z

' Groupthink: we are all victims' US HHS response to COVID was textbook, in all the wrong ways by Robert W Malone MD, MS [Link]
*

"Irving Janis developed the concept of groupthink to explain the disordered decision-making process that occurs in groups whose members work together over an extended period of time. His research into groupthink led to the wide acceptance of the power of peer pressure. According to Janis, there are several key elements to groupthink..." [Link]

parzival · 2022-08-07T11:04:56Z

BREAKING : 'FBI supervisory analyst who rubber-stamped the 2016 dossier w/o vetting and wrote 2020 "disinformation" assessment derailing Hunter Biden investigation is a leader in a DC-area church that was investigated for covering up child sex abuse including child rape & molestation'

Winternights3 · 2022-08-07T15:23:08Z

JT, I'm not pleased by your comment and request an answer.

Winternights3 · 2022-08-11T22:56:27Z

Winternights3 I know question integrity?

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-07T17:27:20Z

As most of us are aware, astrology indicates that each of us are born under planetary and cosmic influences. If the universe is intelligent, that would make sense. We are not all alike, we are each individuals. In Gurdjief’s system, the enneagram is a symbol that represents the Fourth Way description of these types and influences, but in the enneagram there are only 7.

There are 6 planetary types corresponding to the moon, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Mercury and Mars, and one sun or solar type. In the enneagram there is also a flow of light or progression of the types. Each type is influenced by electromagnetic field of the planet involved through the endocrine system: the moon is the pancreas, Venus is the parathyroid, Jupiter is the posterior pituitary, Saturn is the anterior pituitary, Mars is the adrenals, Mercury is the thyroid, Solar is the thymus gland.

Why am I giving a brief description of the types? In the enneagram they are arranged as pairs, because one is a feminine type and more passive, and the other is a masculine type and active. The moon is paired with Mars, Venus is paired with Mercury again feminine and masculine, and Jovial is paired with Saturn respectively. The type of a person affects thinking, feeling, movement, body structure, and sexuality. A male venusian or lunar type will be more feminine. A female martial or saturn type will be more masculine. The solar type is more androgenous, someone who appears both feminine and masculine.

In the Peter Ouspensky line of the Fourth Way development, one student Rodney Collin developed a Model of the Universe based on Ouspensky’s teaching. According to him, his book The Theory of Celestial Influence, was given to him by Ouspensky. Collin uses the science of the time to create a unified theory of life and the universe, and using Gurdjief’s law of three and law of octaves. You can download a pdf of the book here. [Link]

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-09T13:06:28Z

Dwoods44

but in the enneagram there are only 7.

Did you mean 9?... Or is it that the 3-6-9 triangle counts as one?

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-14T12:13:49Z

PedroCarpintero I was differentiating the astrological 12 signs from the enneagram 7 types. The enneagram, and I am no expert, represents 2 laws given by Gurdjief, the law of 3 or the triangle, and the law of 7(octaves) given by the six planets and sun. The law of octaves is the development of any process individually; there can be many processes occurring simultaneously that alters the line of development.

The law of 3 represents the 3 forces that determine how an event unfolds. The law of 3 is often described with the biochemical enzymatic model: substrate, enzyme protein, and catalyst. The catalyst is the third force that determines the action. In hemoglobin, you have a protein that binds oxygen due to the iron catalyst. In the human psychology, the triangle represents the 3 nervous systems interaction with the glandular types: the cerebral-spinal, the sympathetic and the parasympathetic systems. It also represents points in the development of the octave where a transformation can occur that changes the development.

I have not researched how the enneagram has become popularized in the world since the late 60s. So I make no attempt to connect those to the book The Theory of Celestial Influence.

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-14T13:17:34Z

Dwoods44 Thanks for your reply. Interesting your view on the 3... the 3 being 'the mediator', the 'devils advocate', and 'the achiever'... In that triad, there is the active, the passive, and the neutral. I believe that the Trivium is something that should be brought up to date and taught as a foundation of human consciousness. There are lots of commentaries on the Trivium, but the best I can relate it to is the computer (being a material reflection of an internal process) which works on INPUT-PROCESS-OUTPUT. Input - the data that goes into our senses, information that reaches the mind (the mind being the base of the atrophied sixth sense) and how we define it... Process - HOW WE DIGEST AND QUESTION WHAT REACHES US THROUGH THE INPUT CHANNELS (this part being completely missed out by most people, often we just see input coming in, and don't get around to questioning)... and Output, how we adapt ourselves to the world afterwards (even many thinkers and intelligent people have this part malfunctioning from time to time, remaining in 'malfunction' in the logical part)... Also called, Grammar-Logic-Rhetoric, it is the same process, with Grammar relating to the INPUT part where we place definitions and logistical symbols to the incoming information.

Others have called this Trivium process - the digestion of impressions.

I would like to see how the Triad in the Enneagram could relate to the Trivium... It possesses the passive receiving part (the Questioner), the active part (the Achiever), and the neutralizing outcome (the Mediator)...

I've always wanted to get my head around the Enneagram, to try and get it into another framework, because I always have been unable to approach the subject going from the popular books I've read (modern books, I haven't read Gurdjieff's teachings on the Enneagram... however I've heard that when Gurdjieff taught his first pupils, he did break the system down or give the various parts defined names, but just showed them the diagram and told them that it was the sign of how spirit moves through the personality.) People tell me I'm this number or that number, and I just get an allergic reaction, like "No no no! That's not how it works!"... even though I've never read it (apparently I would react that way, being 'the Devil's Advocate').

Interesting how 7 is related to the other part, which technically has 6 points, nevertheless, the 1-4-2-8-5-7 line flow is also the mathematical relationship of all numbers with 7... 1 divided 7 = 0.142857142857142857142857 ad infinitum... 2 divided by 7 = 0.285714285714285714 ad infinitum. God rested on the 7th day... a very important point in terms of the creative process... I have often tried to apply that law of 7 (with the seventh part being a point of rest) in creative process' of art and poetry, and the results are surprisingly magical.

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-17T11:19:35Z

PedroCarpintero Yes, the flow is important. Collin indicates it is the flow of light and it is the progression of types. One is not a fixed type but is moving from one type toward another type, and this gives a direction of development.

Regarding the digestion of impressions, this is a good phrase. We digest impressions just like food but it feeds the soul. What does it mean? Impressions have different frequencies that raise or lower one's own vibrations. By being observant you can see how a theatrical performance of a Shakespeare play, or the music of Mozart, or the art of Rembrandt raises your vibration, while rap and heavy metal and movies do not. You can see a video about the redwoods in Yosemite, but being there (at least years ago) was like being in nature's cathedral.

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-27T15:04:25Z

PedroCarpintero Give me a link to Trivium, and I will take a look. As I noted, I am no expert on the enneagram. I focus more on the laws of 3 and 7, and how they can be seen in our current life.

When you observe a conflict, you are seeing 2 forces at play, but what is the third force that leads to resolution or chaos. This is our world today, so it is important. In my view, it is our relationship to children that will lead to a positive resolution. Child abuse, child trafficking, pedophilia, child sacrifice, child grooming, child indoctrination are the evil being done. Parents, mothers, fathers, all compassionate people are opposed to this; we all have been children.

The law of octaves is how any goal or direction of effort will play out unless the intervals are observed and the direction of development maintained by applying transformation. The problem with intervals in the octave, is the direction changes, but our words and phrases do not. So we start off wanting to be open and questioning and we change into being dogmatic and closed off, at the same time saying we are open and questioning.

Joyly · 2022-08-07T21:53:05Z

Something that is missing from this discussion is the impact our caregivers (male and female) have had on our early childhood. Our feelings towards and reactions to either gender are caused by this early childhood experience. For example a male brought up by a woman, who might be dominating or even vicious, can be terrified of any relationship with any woman. In that case it would be difficult to discern his natural sexual orientation. The books and movies ‘Fifty shades’ give a very good example of how the mother’s treatment can affect the boys sexual preferences. Only love heals all, as The character Christian Grey found.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-09T05:51:31Z

Joyly They did speak to that a little bit And I thought it was right on

For instance I can speak to that it really was wired in my brain with an authoritarian male caretaker and a mom/caretakerwho was really avery, very sweet woman not domineering but passive aggressive if that makes any sense.

I've found that sometimes if I don't control my emotions or I get caught up in them sometimes, sometimes I'll get very protective but, but and this is written reference to outstanding post about sexual identity, that is really wired into my brain at an early time of bonding and sexual development. It's very stressful and it usually takes me a full day just to calm down and handle what to some degree is anger, or violence/desire and lust.

So what you say is true about love Healing all.

I haven't seen the movie, but I do know that some people consider surrender to lust love which of course it isn't, as its quite evil.

If it doesn't sound attractive it isn't; though I think most men have experienced this to some degree.

Joyly · 2022-08-15T09:55:00Z

Nathan Carney Sorry I’m so late to answer. I love your openness in responding. What I know is that often the sexual urge is a way to avoid feeling rejection or not being enough. And it is right not to pursue that urge but rather deal with the emotions. But I mean by releasing anger (a punching bag is good). To release fear let the body have a good shake as you breath from the diaphragm. Then you might be ready to release grief. Which is often hard particular for men because they have been taught not to cry - it is weak. It takes a great deal of courage to surrender and release our grief because hardly anyone on the planet wants to and they try to shut us down. This is why most people take their tears to their grave.

God bless you Nate.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-16T06:19:14Z

Joyly I think maybe grief should be released naturally in part by experiencing but not identifying.

By an embracing of joy.

I very much agree with what you say, except for the part about the punching bag maybe

Though let me tell you, at one time I would like stress muscles to shake which can get in touch with fear.

If that's done grief will follow, but I used to even indulge in crying. Such nonsense.

I'm an emotional person, and I'm going to have bouts sometimes, but it needn't be chased like an addiction.

I've long felt anger and grief are at the root of a lot of sexual desire and addiction.

For instance today I found myself, for convenience, eating basically poorly,--what sorrowful song led to that.

For myself, a disciplined hygiene of the mind is needed, for there is a beautiful song in learning, not just from errors, but the mysteries in life.

Joyly · 2022-08-16T09:36:19Z

Nathan Carney It is lovely to hear a man talk so. The biggest change in my life has come from having a strong desire with passion to help grow this community, educate people and lead them in Common Law. I am so driven and so busy that everything feels very good. We were just saying today while several of us were cleaning a house, how we all feel that we were born for this time to meet these people and do this work.

I still suggest watching a sad movie and having a good cry.

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-16T11:01:02Z

Joyly For my part, I've always considered it a sign of society's schizophrenia, when on one side, men are encouraged to cry and let go, to drop their mask and show their emotions... and then on the other side, men who show their emotions and let go with feelings of anger and aggression are demonized and held up as the new Goy Fawkes... I think the emotions are the emotions, and whilst society says "yes go ahead!" to some emotions (crying and grief), it then says "absolutely not!" to others (anger and frustration). There is a difference between: a) rejecting an emotion or energy and refusing to accept that it exists; b) completely identifying with the emotion as 'me' and getting lost in it; c) observing an emotion happening, understanding it and overcoming it by means of intelligent practices (the solar plexus is a nervous centre which is at the root of the impulse to weep uncontrollably).

In your words, you only present the two options: complete identification or complete repression. But, there exists a third option, which is personal self-observation. Being non-identified does not mean that we do not participate in the emotion or circumstance, only that we participate consciously. It is the same if we were to see an horrific tragedy in the street, a bloody accident or something of the kind... not identifying does not imply we don't do anything to help and ignore everything, we could actually get involved with helping and cleaning up BUT not identify with the grief and the pain going on around us.

Joyly · 2022-08-17T10:58:53Z

PedroCarpintero Except that releasing anger and frustration can be very damaging if it is dumped on others. I prefer to feel and release all my emotions privately; they should not be inflicted on anyone. Anger I save for my punching bag. I feel releasing anger and frustration on those around us comes just below physical abuse. It is usually released on someone who did not cause the anger. In addition it can be dangerous, causing bodily harm as well as emotional pain.

Whenever I see a parent being frustrated with a child in the supermarket I know the child has not caused the underlying anger.

I have assisted at a horrific accident and been calm throughout because my emotions were not involved and people needed to be cared for. It was still dangerous with passing traffic and a raging fire. There was instant death caused by fire. Grieving wives several children and many relatives. A crowd of about thirty.

I appreciate you sharing your perspectives.

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-17T11:07:12Z

Joyly Your quote: "Whenever I see a parent being frustrated with a child in the supermarket I know the child has not caused the underlying anger."

This is an important point. Emotions like anger are triggered by something, but they are not caused by something. If you are tired, lack of sleep, then your physical body is negative, and this negativity can be triggered by any small event.

Joyly · 2022-08-17T11:14:26Z

Dwoods44 Further to that. All our childhood injuries occurred before the age of 8 - often at 2-4. The problem is we carry them into all our future relationships unless we release them, which is hard in a world where no one wants to feel their stuff. So they don’t want you to either.

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-17T11:21:33Z

Joyly I agree, we have "knots" of buried emotional fear or anger from very early on.

Joyly · 2022-08-17T11:27:51Z

Dwoods44 I know my seeking men’s attention was caused by my fathers rejection at 3, and my fear of women’s competition by my mothers competition and making me feel I would never be as good as her; this happened from birth. I felt totally alone all my life even when surrounded by thousands of people. It felt like I was a spectator rather than a participant. The last twelve years of a spiritual and emotional journey have made a big difference and I value and cherish my relationships with men and women for the first time in my life. Whilst none of that was caused by sexual abuse, it has played out sexually for me. I would sleep with any man just for the attention.

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-17T11:37:08Z

Joyly We are in a process of development, and yours is upward, "to value and cherish my relationships". Your choices over time, not always in that direction I am sure, but you learned what fed your growth. I think that is wonderful. Then we can look at the early experiences as giving birth to our direction.

I came from a dysfunctional family, and for my teen years felt a victim of it. That's why forgiveness is necessary; it frees you from the chains of that experience

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-17T16:51:32Z

Joyly Hola Joyly. I think my message has been misunderstood...

I am not advocating that people should get angry, but trying to point out that the emotions are the emotions, whether that be weeping, anger, joy... The fact is, if one just lets the emotions run riot, there is no "end of the barrel", it only educates the emotional centre to be more unstable. I know people who think "let go of all your tears, release them, and then everything will be better"... Whilst that is true in the short term, in the long term, the same people always turn out to be more tearful and emotionallu unstable at every moment of crisis. The same with anger: there is no "release" of anger which then frees it, but rather we become more inclined to bouts of anger when we do 'release' it, because the emotional centre is like a muscle that has memory, and just continues with its same habits.

In reference to the 'car crash' scenario... I was trying to use a metaphor, which can be applied inside ourselves, with our own emotions, the car crash in itself was not the focus of the point, but rather that all of us are like multiple selves, a complete internal city filled with citizens, merchants, criminals, leaders, layabouts... If one element wishes to cry, why should we let our entire inner society fall into hysteria because of one element?... I say its better to examine that element, understand it, without identifying. If we can 'police' ourselves, then that saves the need to be policed from the outside.

This is just my opinion, I think this world is here as a means to reach self-mastery, so hence, for me, I am not a proponent of 'letting the emotions flow' as many new age teachings are trying to encourage folks to do. Just my opinion, nothing more.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-18T21:43:11Z

Joyly maybe the reason I seem to need a good cry is because I don't make good boundaries.

I've noticed when I get really angry, afterwards there is a cry release of sorts.

So this means that by stuffing emotions and also feelings that on some level there is an engagement with wishful thinking or ties to group think, mass formation-not thinking enough.

There are other reasons for this as mentioned-fatigue and emotional muscle memory patterns too.

I used to know a girl named Je who kept thinking I was making fun of her; but I wasn't.

When I read your first post on this thread I thought, this doesn't feel like Joyly.

Then I saw also I was mistaken in some of my thinking.

See I thought I was in trouble for my last post about my parents because if someone else wrote that about my carers I'd take offense.

I've been working hard, and also driven inspired, by the writing of sublime friends-that has kindled a fire of a competitive nature that is thrilling.

And I am really greatful to you.

Joyly · 2022-08-20T02:17:38Z

Nathan Carney Thank you my friend. It is always about our parents but often we don’t want to know that if we prefer to keep them on a pedestal. We always bring our repressed feelings about our careers into every new relationship. You can contact me anytime; you know where.

Anger is a capping emotion and always covers other emotions like fear and grief. When we leave the anger in place it can lead to depression; depression is caused by unexpressed anger. That is why you will hear phsychiatrists say a patient is improving when they start to feel their anger.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-22T16:00:49Z

Joyly I think I do know where, you told me so.

I'm in a good situation at work; but it's also a bad situation because it just takes all my time and sometimes my body just--it's not mighty like it once was, if it ever was.

I find myself sometimes having issues with lungs Then too I enjoy responsibility at work even though I'm not compensated for it. When I do get mad at my boss he just says, Nathan, Nathan, I really like you--you're such a hard worker what do you want to do...do you want less hours ...do what you need to do to be happy and all these things. Actually I just need to do one thing really and that's just a lot of reading, because that that was really exciting for me and for the past 3 days I haven't done anything other than just roll around and watch movies because my roommate likes to watch movies. And it just Gets me so irritated the truth is I can easily use my other phone to read so I don't have a lot of excuses. When I was thinking about how much time I have, of course my roommate said, "oh Oh that's not true you just need to get up earlier", and things like that.

I mean 82 years old and she's getting up like you wouldn't believe in the morning, and doing whatever she does going to exercise is in what not pretty irritating One thing about this job is that other people are not interested in responsibility; whether they've done the math and see that they won't they won't be compensated by the company because the owner is greedy or or simply because they don't want to be responsible.responsible But of course meaning comes from taking

on responsibility.

In this case the responsibility is not necessarily found materialistically and that's probably my biggest problem because I think I just focus way too much on the material things and not about what really gives my life meaning and I'm really getting tired of it.

Joyly · 2022-08-23T10:51:44Z

Nathan Carney You said it in your last sentence: what gives your life meaning? Do only that; eliminate everything else. I am so driven and so happy at the moment because I love what I am doing.

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-27T14:42:16Z

Joyly Rereading your comment. "I felt like I was a spectator rather than a participant." I felt the same. A teacher once said, "The struggle is intense to be true to one's self amidst a lie."

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-08T03:21:39Z

Around the 19 minute mark, it is mentioned about how the authorities never admit they are wrong, and that if they did so, they would actually gain public respect, because most people would see them as human.

Whilst it is certainly very true and anyone human can agree with it, it is also impossible in the current system, because an authority that admits it's wrong also destroys the very foundation upon which rests its AUTHOR-ity - to be right (write). Every leader in politics knows that his or her magical spell of authority will come to an end the moment they'd utter the all-too-human words: I was wrong.

Nevertheless, it would be great to hear such words, but let's not hold our breath.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-09T06:28:00Z

PedroCarpintero Well if someone can't admit they are wrong they are not a leader because they aren't interested in truth.

In reference to Dwoods44 post I see so much of my life wrapped in sexual identity, whether it manipulation or joking bullying for position in egoistic anger or just sometimes having sick lust/desire.

It leads to a downward spiral and a crystallization of false identity or victim hood.

If it seems I'm being overly harsh or it's exaggeration, it isn't--because one's soul depends on it.

I've experimented with men and found, as a young heterosexual man, desperate for male guidance, torn and trapped in programs of sexual identity, much damage.

It's hard for me to speak of this and not feel bad.

Even weep sometimes when I know I shouldn't

I should end this on a positive note because I know that with the care, concern, and family here, there is another way to live, a better way to live, and a healthy way of expressing sexual energy.

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-09T14:01:10Z

Nathan Carney I was umm-ing and err-ing all the way up to experimenting with homosex, and when I finally did, one of the first things I noticed was that in the following days and weeks, I became completely unhinged emotionally, I would just fly into temper tantrums and completely lose the plot... I had all that stuff going on inside, but it never made it out into the open in such a drama-queen like way.

I found it ironic that the feminist society tries to encourage the man to cry (or be it, to let go of his emotions), but at the same time, it tells the man that he should never lose his temper ever ever (or be it, he must have dominion over his emotions). It's a bit like sending mixed messages: feminists want men to dominate their emotions... and then, they want men to let go of their emotions!

I believe Sex is the stone the builders refused, which will always be the headcorner stone... a rock of scandal, and a stumbling rock... those that step on it will be broken, whilst those that receive its weight will be turned to dust.

One of the hardest things is for someone to see their inadequacies... physical, biological defaults, which are carved into our being... but, as Christ says, that is our cross in this life... perhaps in past lives, we were strong and powerful, but abused that power, so now we are weak and feeble... and in another life, if we correct our errors, we could well be normal once again. Nothing last forever, but whilst we have it in our lives, it produces an unspeakable suffering, because it seems all our being is subjected to the fault... in reality, in many cases, it is only our body, which is temporary and falls away anyway.

One of my favourite lines in the Bhagavad Gita is how God gives to his devotees what they lack, and preserves what they have. We lack so many things and qualities, and especially inherited qualities and virtues, which are quickly being eliminated all together... But, if one has faith in God, God gives all that one lacks and needs. For that reason, people of all ages have felt him to be 'the Father in secret'.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-18T02:29:51Z

PedroCarpintero Thank you. It's true.

There's a big difference between being emotional and being in touch with feelings.

Before the experimenting I was good at saying no, at yelling and screaming dark wrath, but deep feeling, and also at expressing feeling in general.

And then I kept everything on the inside.

A torrent of desperation.

Grace and faith are the answer, but I mostly know that from the people here.

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-20T03:52:01Z

Nathan Carney

Well if someone can't admit they are wrong they are not a leader because they aren't interested in truth.

I've been told that one is not a true chess player whilst he still makes blunders... its a bit like driving a car - if you make a blunder, it could mean the end of the game. To reach that level of mastery is quite a feat.

I would say that a leader who makes a blunder, is not a true leader. Sadly, the authorities of society have translated that to mean that the leader should never ADMIT having made mistakes, whilst he or she can carry on making mistakes freely, even to the extreme of just continuously making mistakes, but as long as one pretends that one is right, "nothing to see here", then they deserve the crown and spectre.

In this society so filled with imperfections, I wonder if any such leaders would be able to come forth... and if they did, they would probably be crucified at once and called the villain.

Only by everyone perfecting ourselves, day after day, could such a society eventually unfold.

Failing that, the 'perfect' leader seems to be no other than modern science.... unquestionable authority that is never wrong... but then if matter itself was to go through a change, then that wobbly babel tower of science would quickly come crashing to the ground.

Kimster · 2022-08-08T21:10:22Z

Great Conversation! I started using the term 'The Walking Wounded' for every human on Earth years ago.

I'm a 67 year old straight woman with no children. It's only when I was about 45 that I felt like I had acquired enough information to perhaps have a child and not completely Fuck it up and by then it's too late. It's amazing how so many role models are completely lacking for everyone.

Perhaps Parenting classes like Driver's Ed???? I'm being trite, yet the Planet is in need of something. The classes would be too late since the damage might already be too deep. There has to be a way to stop the generational dysfunction. As the famous quote goes....

“Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”

― Aristotle, The Philosophy of Aristotle

Again great conversation

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-08T23:05:44Z

Kimster "Perhaps Parenting classes like Driver's Ed????"

I think in the past, it was called "Faaam'ly". I came from a big family with great grandparents, great great uncles and aunts, and everyone visited everyone else, walking into one another's houses without knocking on the door, as if it was it was just the same house. All the elders used to come and just share the parenting with the new parents, it was just a part of the culture.

Something happened around the end of the 80s and start of the 90s, but the family imploded... Property prices rose, everyone sold their house, everyone moved, and within a few years, no one lived near anyone... but, we were much more 'wealthier'... apparently!

Jason · 2022-08-10T04:52:45Z

Notice he only talks if his mother, where was dad? Did I miss something? Did his mum make him gay like a lot of mums do now?

PedroCarpintero · 2022-08-10T13:55:29Z

Jason I think a lot of homosexuals are 'missing' that male role model figure from their youth, so they grow up looking for 'the man in their life' to make them complete. From what I gather, it is very common for gay man to have overbearing and hysterical dramatic mothers (Cluster B psychology), as depicted as the villainesses in the films of Walt Disney (Disney being homosexual).

One of the interesting parts was the mention of the 'impressions'... If a boy grows up with an overpowering, overbearing, hysterical and highly unpredictable mother, that boy receives that impression about "women" (of course, there are billions of women, not all of them are like that, but that impression makes one believe that all women are similar to the childhood impression we received), and consequently, does not know instinctively how to relate to other women (being no other women that have made an impression on the child), and because the 'impressed' female in his mind is so overbearing and overpowering, it leaves the boy little option but to be attracted to men...

I had a girlfriend whose father and grandfather were very aggressive and violent, and even up till her 30s, she still held the impression that 'all men are aggressive and violent'... even to the point that she herself would get aggressive and violent if I did not agree with her! At the end of the day, if was one family, a few men, but for this woman, it made the impression that 'all men are aggressive and violent', even when life itself proved to her that that was certainly not the case.

I think 'the impressions' are a point in psychology which should be much further studied (not officially, but at least internally by each individual), so as to be able to change the internal blueprint of our lives, which always attracts the same problems, circumstances, types of people, and dramas into our lives, over and over again. Free oneself from the impression, and a lot of other possibilities in life will open up.

Jason · 2022-08-10T20:56:16Z

PedroCarpintero Well put. Cheers

Dwoods44 · 2022-08-11T12:27:33Z

PedroCarpintero Thanks for your discussion. We are each a process of our life experience, good and bad.

Nathan Carney · 2022-08-10T18:12:38Z

Yes, this is very true.

I hope you don't mind my sharing a picture of caretakers.

[Link]
[Link]
It's important to remember that when when people buy into mass hysteria, they are attempting to mask their own hysteria.

Sometimes it happens slowly, in quiet desperation, like glaciers scratching and clawing across the rock.

There was constant bickering/teasing between the two, almost like a battle for control.

He was more limited, and yet masculine, intelligent, a far more loyal, not in action but attitude-though she is sweet.

Let me explain. While they were always monogamous, he gave her the independence she craved...or so she thought.

I was so taken with her beauty and spirit and I liked the dress as well

He gave off a creepy intensity, bless the man and heart.

Mayday Mike · 2022-08-14T02:52:18Z

Dealing with a narcissist is actually real easy; just ignore them and they spiral and spin about. Attention is the only thing they want. Get the Mammoth, ignore the shrew.

rakarb · 2022-08-26T23:21:19Z

nice one; [Link]
(not reccommend for easily provoced narcissists).

SOTT Focus:

MindMatters: Kicking the Cluster B-hive with Joshua Slocum: Queen B's, Homosexuality & Dealing with Narcissists

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