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If you haven't heard about the coronavirus currently locking down China, you've likely been hiding under a rock. The explanations for the origin of the virus have been all over the place: it came from Chinese people eating weird animals (bat soup anyone?); it came from space hitchhiking on a meteorite; it escaped a biotech lab; it's a bioweapon launched by the US to cripple China's economy. There's tons of speculation, but little in the way of actual verifiable evidence.

Join us on this episode of Objective:Health as we wax on about COVID-19. Are we all gonna die? Or will it fizzle out like previous pandemics?

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Running Time: 00:36:54

Download: MP3 — 33.3 MB

Here's the transcript of the show:

Tiffany: Welcome to Objective Health. Hello everybody. I am your host Tiffany, and joining me in our studio we have Doug and Elliot.


Tiffany: Today we are going to talk about the Coronavirus. If you haven't heard about the Coronavirus then obviously you have been living under a rock for the last month or so. It's been working its way around the world and scaring the pants off of everybody.

One thing that I noticed just recently - I was watching some videos on the Coronavirus on YouTube - and you if you type in "Coronavirus" into the YouTube search box you get a pop up from the World Health Organisation where you can get the latest information about the Coronavirus. I was thinking about whether they had this up when Ebola was out, or Zika virus, or any of the other viral scares that we seem to get every one or two years?

Doug: No, I don't think so. I think that they've started doing that kind of thing recently. I've noticed that any time I go to watch an RT video there is a message underneath that says that it is funded by the Russian government. I think that this is one of their ways of battling disinformation.

Tiffany: But why with this one in particular?

Doug: It's anything that is a contentious topic. The fact of the matter is...

Tiffany: I've typed "Ebola" and "Zika" and other viruses into the YouTube search box and the Coronavirus is the only virus that gets this special treatment. I just wanted to point that out.

Doug: I think that's because there are a lot of people freaking out about that right now.

Tiffany: I think part of it is also that there is a lot of crackdown on free speech lately and you know that if there's something that you can't criticise then you know that there is probably something more behind that and you should look a little bit closer. But at any rate, we're going to talk about the Coronavirus today.

I've heard it also referred to as the kung fu flu, I like to call it the Wu Tang Virus myself. {laughter} Apparently we are supposed to call it COVID-19 right now. That is the Coronavirus' new name. If we're going to get into this we should probably talk about what the corona virus actually is. What are the symptoms? What do we have to be afraid of? I've heard alternately that it's super contagious and then that it's no worse than the common cold.

Doug: From what I understand, the symptoms are a dry cough, fever, shortness of breath, nasal congestion and after a few days they tend to experience fatigue. After a day or so they may experience nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain and loose stools. It sounds a whole lot like the flu. I can't blame YouTube for putting the WHO page up because there is wildly varying information out there. Some of it is very measured saying "nobody freak out, this isn't really that big a deal" and people keep on comparing it to the number of deaths that you see from the flu every year versus what you are seeing from coronavirus.

On the other hand, you have people saying "No, this is actually really bad. It is much more virulent than people are letting on. The numbers are not reflective of what is actually happening." It's hard to know exactly what's going on and how much we should be freaking out about this.

You could say, you shouldn't really be freaking out about it. Generally, if you aren't living in China then the numbers aren't that high. Off the top of my head from an Al Jazeera article up. Damian, maybe you can pull that up. The highest numbers outside of China are in Japan. If you include the cruise ship the Diamond Princess that is docked there at the moment, apparently they have 355 cases on board, mainland Japan has about 57 cases, Singapore has got 75, South Korea: 29. China has 68,567. Worldwide, I believe the total number of deaths, the last numbers I heard, was 1665 deaths.

Tiffany: The other site I'm looking at has 1666 deaths. Woooooh. Spooky!

Doug: One died since I got my numbers! It seems like for the most part it is Asian countries. It makes sense, if it is all centred in China then their neighbours are going to be the ones that have the most. There are a couple of Western counties, Canada has 8, Germany has 16, France has 12, the US has 15, Vietnam - well it's Asian - but it has 16.

Elliot: That's a pretty low percentage of total cases causing death. It's a pretty low mortality rate, all things considered. My understanding from a lot of the information about the people who are generally dying from this is it is generally afflicting the elderly; people with preexisting conditions. They are more likely to die in a similar kind of way as the flu.

The people who die from the flu are generally people who have already got existing health conditions, low immunity, poor nutrition, maybe they're in nursing or care homes. It's generally the elderly. That's not to say that all the people dying from the coronavirus are elderly, but actually it seems that the majority of the people who are dying from this are the same kind of population, they fall into the same demographic, as the people who generally die every year from the flu. It's not like it's some killer virus that wipes out 90% of all people that it infects. The mortality is pretty meager.

Tiffany: It's not wiping out people in the prime of their lives either.

Elliot: Exactly.

Doug: It does have a higher mortality than the flu though in general. If you look at the total numbers, the flu kills hundreds of thousands of people every year and coronavirus has only 1600 deaths so far. But if you look at the percentages, coronavirus is at about an estimated 2.2% mortality. When you compare that to the flu which is around 0.1-0.2% it does seem like it is killing more people, but it doesn't seem like it is as contagious. Certainly, the total numbers aren't as high.

Tiffany: With the flu, you have to consider that they've been massaging the numbers for flu deaths for years.

Doug: That's true.

Tiffany: Who's to say what the real number of flu deaths is? In the US they say it's something like 30,000 a year but they lump flu deaths in with deaths from pneumonia or other upper respiratory infections so you can't really say for sure if it is the flu. Plus, the CDC is known for making up numbers out of whole cloth anyway.

Doug: Totally. They want to sell vaccines, right? The only reason that I think that the number for the coronavirus might be a little bit more accurate, although obviously there are other things coming into play there, but they don't have a vaccine, so they are not necessarily they are not trying to bump those numbers at this point.

Tiffany: Another thing to consider when you are speaking about accuracy is how are they confirming these cases or coronavirus? Are they actually doing lab tests and then with this lab test, are they actually identifying the viral particle or are they looking for some kind of antibody response like they do with other viral tests? That also makes me look at the numbers differently. Are they just diagnosing people based on symptoms which they have been known to do, like in every virus scare that we have seem to get every year. Not all of these people are confirmed with laboratory testing.

Elliot: There were numerous testimonies from people on the ground in China, I'm pretty certain having said that actually they don't have the resources to be able to test and fully diagnose everyone. So, actually if someone presents with the symptoms, they'ill tell them to go home because they have probably got this.

Tiffany: Go home and quarantine yourself. Is it a Japanese cruise ship?

Doug: I don't know if it's Japanese. It's docked in Japan right now.

Tiffany: Right, so all of these people are basically quarantined on a cruise ship and how many cases of coronavirus do they have there now?

Doug: 355

Tiffany: Are they sending lab samples out to be tested somewhere? Do they have a lab there on the ship? Are we 100% sure that all the people on this ship actually have the coronavirus.

Doug: It could be food poisoning.

Tiffany: It could be Norovirus. It always breaks out on cruise ships so who knows? I'm looking at this skeptically because there was the Ebola scare that came out a couple of years ago. There was the Zika virus scare. There was SARS and MERS and then coronavirus right now. They had the measles scare that shows up. So it seems like every couple of years or so there's this new thing that we are supposed to be afraid of. That's just one of the things that makes me suspicious that this is probably a "nothing burger" and will probably blow over. However, I'm saying that I don't think that there's a possibility for a pandemic or something to break out but I think that if it did then it could probably be blamed on the coronavirus but really it is attributable to something else.

Doug: Like a different virus?

Tiffany: Or no virus at all! Look through history, say with the polio virus, which was spread by poor sanitation. You could say that about different illnesses that swept through certain populations throughout history. With polio, you had cases of wild-caught polio that went up for a while, so you had some improvements in sanitation then the number of cases went down and then they introduced a vaccine and then suddenly the number of polio cases increases again.

So if you were to apply this to coronavirus and they introduce a vaccine after things naturally die down, the hype dies down, and the vaccine causes people to shed some particles and that is actually the source of a pandemic, not necessarily the wild coronavirus on its own. That's just my little conspiracy.

Doug: It's not a totally unfounded conspiracy because we were talking on the show before about how the polio vaccine was responsible for more cases of polio than the wild virus. It's not that outside the realm of possibility.

Elliot: We know that with giving a live vaccine it often seems to be the case, that it actually causes you to shed live virus.

Tiffany: Like the measles.

Elliot: You could quite easily cause the spread, even if it is just a minor version of it. Who knows? You could quite easily contribute to it at least.

Tiffany: Do we want to get into some of the other alternative theories about coronavirus?

Doug: That's where I was just headed.

Tiffany: Because apparently, this is caused because people eat bat soup in certain Chinese markets. [laughter] There have been articles that have come out because of the different foods that they have in these street markets, like snakes and bats that people might eat. There's some other slithery thing that they are trying to blame it on now. I guess we could apologise to the animals upfront because it seems like whenever there is a virus throughout history they're always blaming the snakes or blaming the green monkeys or the chickens or the mad cows or the rats or the fleas on the rats. We can just apologise to the animals upfront because they always seem to get blamed in these viral outbreaks.

However, Jon Rappoport has a series of articles out where he explores the possibility that in Wuhan where this broke out, that city is known for its monstrous levels of air pollution and people have been complaining for years about it. People regularly wear face masks because the smog can be very, very bad there. People have been having respiratory distress for a long time and people were protesting. So Jon Rappoprt's take on it is that the government is blaming a virus - notably the coronavirus - for something that is caused by the significant amounts of air pollution in the city.

Doug: I don't know if I buy it.

Elliot: Me neither.

Doug: You wouldn't have cases showing up in other countries and they are actually doing the tests and confirming that it is actually the coronavirus if there was no virus, if it was all just air pollution. I don't know. I agree with a lot of Rappoport's take on a lot of things but I think that he is off-base on this one,

Elliot: It doesn't really account for the sudden onset of things as well, right? Unless there was some kind of nuclear radiation facility or some new chemical processing plant which was ultra toxic which just started running in the past couple of months, how could you differentiate between now and last year?

Tiffany: Yes, why now?

Elliot: If you look at the effect of pollution on the body, it generally doesn't cause those symptoms. It might cause cancer, it might cause autoimmunity. It could make people sick, but generally it's going to happen all at once. It's not going to be a sudden onset. Like you said Doug, we need to take all facts into consideration. Maybe it's been a little bit overblown, maybe there are a lot of things that we don't know that are going on here, but at the same time we can't just deny the personal lab experience, the medical experience of thousands of doctors all around the world who were all seeing the same thing, unless they are all in on one big conspiracy and it is a lie. Okay, come on! We need to align with what is most likely true and it seems that actually when we factor in all things considered, it doesn't really help to explain it.

Doug: I agree. The other possibility which was floated by a scientist from India is - Damian maybe you can pull up the article please: Corona Virus Came from Meteorite which Hit China Last Year. This guy has been studying this aspect for a long time - the probability of some viruses at least, coming from meteorites. Viruses can apparently survive space travel and apparently it happens all the time. These viruses actually ride in on comets or meteorites. There's actually a really good article up on SOTT called New Light on the Black Death and it was looking at the possibility that the Black Death, the plague back in medieval times, actually came from space. It's relatively good, It's a theory but there's relatively good evidence and it does seem to explain a lot of the factors that the idea that it was spread by rats doesn't seem to cover.

One criticism of this guy's theory is that he's trying to pin it on one meteorite in particular which hit China last year and even his own model doesn't really account for that because what he was saying in previous articles is that what actually happens is that they end up in the atmosphere and they can stay up there for years. They can mutate or they can combine or do whatever it is that viruses do and they don't necessarily get down to ground level and reach humans for years, decades, centuries even. So trying to pin it on a specific meteorite seems a little bit unlikely, but nonetheless as much as it sounds like science fiction there is actually a very real possibility that this is where it came from.

Elliot: It has been highlighted that China tends to be a hub for these weird viruses. There have been multiple different ones, not so much Zika, but SARS, MERS, Hand Foot and Mouth, there have been a couple of other ones as well which were said to originate in China. They point the finger at them because they say that they eat a bunch of weird stuff that we don't eat in the West, like bat soup. Whether they do actually eat that or whether that's just a couple of....

Doug: Extremists.

Elliot: Yeah, extremists.

Tiffany: Racists!

Elliot: There are Chinese people who say that you can't find bat soup anywhere and it's a really random thing. There is the idea that it's China because it's bordering on the Himalayas that actually may be the cause of the thinning of the atmosphere. I don't know much about geophysics but apparently there is a thinner atmosphere around the Himalayas and that might be one of the ways that it is getting through.

I was reading one theory about how these viruses may have potentially come on a comet or a meteorite a couple of million years ago, or a hundred million years ago or whatever, depositing in the glaciers as well. They completely froze over, but with the climate changing in different parts of the world, you have some glaciers melting and might actually be unleashing a really exotic cosmic virus which we have not come into contact with as a species, perhaps for our entire evolutionary history so there would be very little way to deal with that. It's an interesting concept but who knows?

Tiffany: How about the bio-weapons angle?

Doug: That's what I was going to say as well. James Lyons-Weiler is a scientist - Damian can you put the article up? - who wrote an article called On the Origins Of The 2019-NCoV Virus, Wuhan, China and it is a very good article. It is very technical and very scientific, I am not going to pretend that I understood it all. He goes through different scenarios and talks about their probability - which ones are likely. He talks about the Wuhan market and it coming from animals.

The important thing is that he is actually studying the genome of this thing, he is actually looking at the genetic factors and determining what is most likely and what is not likely. He said that option 1 is that it is a natural Coronavirus related to bat Coronavirus and not a recombined virus and he said that this is a falsified hypothesis. The idea that it came from bat soup or animals of some kind is falsified - not true.

The next possibility is that it is a recombined virus that naturally picked up a SARS-like spike protein in it etc. etc. technical talk. He says that that one is very unlikely for scientific reasons that I don't pretend to understand. What he does say is that a recombined virus made in a laboratory for the purpose of creating a bio-weapon is a possibility. He brings in some of the evidence for that. There was the scientist who was booted from Canada for sending viruses to China or something like that. Are you guys familiar with that story?

Elliot: The female scientist right?

Doug: She is Chinese and was working in Canada at Canada's only level-4 lab in Manitoba, Canada. She was fired for violating protocols, allegedly sending samples of a deadly virus to mainland China. This isn't necessarily a fact, but there is an angle on this that I have seen which is that because there is this economic war going between the US and China it is not out of the realm of possibility that they would hit them with this to try and cripple them economically.

One of the things that makes you rub your chin is that it coincided with the celebration of the Chinese New Year when everybody is going to be traveling and going home to see their families. It's like if you wanted to spread a virus very quickly in China, it's the perfect time to do it. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence on that.

Tiffany: Wasn't there another article on the bio-weapon angle? Weren't there similar genetic inserts on the Coronavirus's RNA which looked like HIV, that's one of the reasons why one of these scientists thought that it could have been a bio-weapon because there is no way in nature that that kind of unique insertion would occur?

Doug: Yeah. The thing is, I haven't heard anything else about that. Maybe that's because it got hushed up very quickly. It was Indian scientists who discovered that and it was a non-peer-reviewed study, so it got a lot of flak for that reason. I haven't seen anything further on that and this scientist James Lyons-Weiler doesn't talk about that.

He actually talks about how there are SARS insertions in it. He says the bioweapons theory is possible, but his fourth theory is that this is a vaccine, that they were doing experimental vaccines and they were maybe even doing human trials on it and it had basically escaped. He says that looking at the genome and looking at the insertions that are in there it looks like it was probably some kind of Coronavirus vaccine - probably against SARS.

What has happened is that they're shedding now - these people who were vaccinated by it are shedding. James Lyons-Weiler has said that in previous studies on trying to make a vaccine for SARS or Coronaviruses, when they do it in mice they tend to be more susceptible to wild viruses after that and they tend to have no defence against it and die from it. He was basically saying this is what he sees as being the most likely possibility of where this thing originated from.

Tiffany: Another thing that makes all the conspiracy theorists rub their palms together and cackle is that three months ago there was a researcher at Johns Hopkins who ran a simulation and they happened to use the Coronavirus and the simulation showed that it would kill 65 million people. Bill Gates is one of the backers of the studies and it was a collaboration with the World Economic Forum and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Just the type of people who you think would be interested in viral pandemics! At any rate, they were behind it so people always say it's the same thing that happens with false flag attacks, they always do some kind of simulation beforehand and then it happens for real.

Doug: I feel like if Bill and Melinda Gates were behind it they would already have a vaccine.

Tiffany: I think that is probably one of the things that we have to wait for. They're going to try and come out with a vaccine, and I think I have read some other reports of them thinking of using the Ebola vaccine that's still in trial. They will try and use it on Coronavirus victims and people who don't want to be Coronavirus victims. We will have to see. I don't know.

Doug: Can you do that though? Can you just take any random vaccine and say "I'll try this one, maybe this will work?" [Laughter]

Tiffany: It's a virus! It's a virus, they're all alike! [Laughter]

Doug: Maybe I'll try the Polio vaccine! Maybe the measles vaccine will work against it?

Elliot: It's all the same isn't it? [Laughter]

Doug: At least you get a vaccine! [Laughter]

Tiffany: Another thing that is interesting about the Coronavirus is the social ramifications, actually putting people into quarantine, going around door to door. That's strange, that's different. Is this a practice run?

Doug: This is the biggest quarantine that has ever happened on the planet as far as we know.

Tiffany: So that's one thing that separates this scare from the other scares. There have been some other quarantines with Ebola, trying to avoid certain people and building special facilities where you can treat them, but I don't think we've ever seen this level of quarantine before.

Doug: That probably has a lot to do with the fact that it's China and they are able to mobilise and get shit done quickly. A lot of journalists are giving them flak and saying that they didn't respond quickly enough. If this was spreading in North America you would see this level of control, I think anyway.

Tiffany: Don't forget that China is a communist country.

Doug: Building a hospital in a week? That's pretty impressive.

Tiffany: In communist countries they have a real foot ahead as far as social crackdown goes and actually having people go along with it and support the system. We'll have to see how far this goes, but I will stand by my prophesy that if this does go into something big it will probably be a vaccine-caused epidemic, not a regular wild epidemic or pandemic. We'll see.

Elliot: Well what can you do about it? If you do get Coronavirus, what can you do about it? There's a study now, a trial being done in China, if I am not mistaken, which is using mega-doses of intravenous vitamin C. I'm pretty sure that there were a couple of confirmed cases which showed that it actually worked. There are a couple of different antiviral concoctions that they're giving. I could be wrong about the vitamin C.

Doug: No, it's true. They have done a small trial with not very many people but they found that it was effective against it. I don't know if it cured it outright but it took people from dying of it to recovering. A functional medicine group put out an article saying don't freak out about this, you should protect against this the same way you would with the flu - taking your vitamin C regularly, vitamin D as well, selenium, zinc.

The kind of things that will protect you from any virus should work against this as well. It is a virus. I'm sure intravenous vitamin C is a very effective means of combating it. In China, they were listing off a few Chinese medicine herbs that they were using for it. I'm not familiar with any of them because they were all Chinese names, but the fact is that there is a rich history of herbal medicine in China and they are using it to help with people who have come down with Coronavirus. India is using homeopathy as well which they're taking flak for of course.

Tiffany: I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Doug: We will.

Tiffany: Just like with all the others. Unless there is anything anybody wants to add to the Coronavirus or COVID-19, we will wrap up the show for this week and we will see you guys next time with another show. Be safe, wash your hands, don't sneeze on anybody if you can help it. If you liked this video, hit the "like" button, hit the "subscribe" button, leave a comment and we will see you next time.