George Knapp and Dr Colm Kelleher
Over a Microsoft Teams chat from the Nevada desert, the AAWSAP (Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program) manager for the Defence Intelligence Agency, Dublin born scientist Dr Kelleher, described, what he believes, are the profound nature of his work.
"The idea that humans are the only life form in the universe is no longer true, that there is another intelligence very close to planet earth, is a shattering experience to internalise," he said.
"This was not taught in Templeogue College. Suddenly you are faced with a reality that should not exist. There's that phrase, 'ontological shock.' You make a shift psychologically and you never go back.
"For people who have experienced this, something changes and it becomes extremely important. People who have come face to face with this are very engaged. People who haven't are on the side lines.
"In general, there is a psychological form of denial because if you admit this into your reality, there is a whole slew of things that are not true.
"That is why society is kind of split, as some people have been awakened to something that should not exist."
An intelligence officer for the US National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, which is the primary source on earth for space threat analysis, made headlines in June when he said that:
"The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone. Retrievals are not limited to the United States.
"A vast array of our most sophisticated sensors, including space based platforms, have been utilized by different agencies, typically in triplicate, to observe and accurately identify the out of this world nature, performance and design of these anomalous machines, which are then determined not to be of earthly origin."
Dr Kelleher's journey to the upper echelons of Washington began after he graduated from Trinity College Dublin to go to Canada in 1984. He spent seven years there and moved to the States in 1991.
"I was born between Walkinstown and Terenure. I went to Templeogue College and then went to UCD to study Biochemistry and Chemistry. Then went to Trinity for my PhD.
"My background is in mainstream science. In 1996 I was working in an immunology research centre in Denver, Colorado, when I was looking at a science journal and I saw an ad recruiting scientists with a passion for the 'origin and evolution of consciousness in the universe.'
"I took a leap into the un-known. Anomalies can lead to new doorways in science."
Dr Kelleher picked up the phone and talked to Robert Bigelow, who was head of the US National Institute for Discovery Science (NIDS).
He joined the organization in August 1996. Meanwhile, there was a ranch in Utah where a family were experiencing suspected UAP activity.
"This rancher was saying 'look, I see UFOs over my property every day. I have a herd of top end cattle, pure bred and expensive. I have lost a dozen to cattle mutilations. I'm going out of business.'
"Within a month I was up there with a PhD physicist and a veterinary pathologist. Evidence suggested UFOs seemed to be in the same place at the same time as these cattle were being mutilated.
"We were playing cat and mouse with something that did not want to be hunted. Cattle kept on being mutilated and disappearing. It was some kind of intelligence, some sort of high technology that could move around easily and surreptitiously. It chose whether or not be photographed," Dr Kelleher said.
Dr Kelleher described, what he considers, his first encounter on the ranch and the types of UAP he encountered with his team.
"It happened within a month. I was standing with this physicist about 10 pm when this low flying, fast moving, very bright light came in over the ridge.
"Really fast, really low, I could see the structure behind the light. It was moving as fast as a jet fighter.
"It sped right across above our heads, then did a 180 degree turn, a U turn directly above. Completely silent. It re-traced it's steps and vanished again beyond the ridge."
Back in June, both NASA and the Pentagon revealed the existence of "metallic orb" UFOs which have been spotted all over the world.
They stressed that there was no evidence the UFOs are "extraterrestrial" in nature, but admitted that better data is needed to understand some encounters.
The report detailed movements that that have defied explanation.
Dr Kelleher said he experienced similar UFO movements on the farm.
"There were multiple different types of orbs. Blue, yellow, white, red. All had different purposes.
"The blue were not to be messed with. They caused injuries to people and incinerated animals. They had profound negative, effects on people's health. If you see a blue orb, run like hell."
Dr Kelleher wrote a book about his work called 'Hunt for the Skinwalker: Science Confronts the Unexplained at a Remote Ranch in Utah.'
The Dubliner studied with NIDS until 2004 and then worked in biotechnology for 5 years in San Francisco. He got a call regarding a new Government programme that was opening in 2008. It was top secret and being run from the Defence Intelligence Agency.
The focus was threat analysis for the UFO phenomenon.
"The official line from the Pentagon had always been 'Nothing here folks, move on.' The fact that the DIA was studying them underneath the radar was of tremendous interest. DIA provided 22 million in funding over two years.
"It required top secret clearances. All facilities had to be top secret, not a trivial exercise. One of the first cases we investigated was the 'tic tac' incident which years later featured in the New York Times article.
"F-18 fighters encountered multiple UFOs off the coast of San Diego. UFOs were coming in on ballistic missile trajectories, hurtling in at 80,000 feet, dropping down to just above the ocean.
"A carrier strike group was training- the Nimitz- with a bunch of destroyers, the most advanced radars on the planet. They tracked these things coming from space down to sea level.
"We contacted Washington, the guy running the operation for the DIA was James T Lacatski, the original rocket scientist. Our investigation remained top secret. We submitted our paper to the DIA in July 2009.
"That was eight years prior to the New York Times breaking that story. These UFOs were sighted by Top Gun pilots and tracked on multiple radar systems and infrared. There was no ambiguity. It was one of the most spectacular UFO engagements, probably in history."
Dr Kelleher believes "the winds of change are blowing" as UAP information reaches members of the public.
"The Senate's amendment mandates all UFO technology hidden with aerospace contractors to be revealed. The US Government will take possession of reversed engineered crashed technology.
"10 years ago official policy was 'nothing to see here. People who report UFOs are drunk or delusional or mentally unstable.' That was standard part line until the story broke about our programme."
Does Dr Kelleher know exactly what we are contending with?
"If I came down with an absolute 'this is what it is', I would not be telling the truth. The bottom line is we are dealing with very advanced technology. We are dealing with something that can manipulate human perception. It is something that can invade people's lives and it is very deceptive.
"This phenomenon displays itself on its own terms. It is difficult to gather the evidence on this and it seems to be specifically engineered to sabotage the gathering of scientific evidence. There seems to be a fundamental deception there, I believe.
"During the 1950s, there seems to be attempts made to start new religions. We have a lack of understanding. The UFO phenomenon is very far ahead of us and I think it always has been very far ahead of us and continues to be.
"The good news is that Government has been taking this very seriously."
Dr Kelleher, Mr Lacatski and award winning journalist George Knapp have penned a book called 'Inside the US Government Covert UFO Program: Initial Revelations'.
The book contains their description of the secret UAP operation, focusing on the physics and engineering of UFO performance.
"How can they accelerate from 0 to Mach 15 in seconds? How can the come out of water and into lower earth orbit without surface wings or obvious propulsion systems? Mostly silent. From an aerodynamic perspective; what is happening?
"Are they extremely advanced drones? Are they AI drones? The book is to explain to the public that we were going after this 100 pc in secret.
"James T Lacatski got permission to write certain information by the Defence Office of Pre-publication Security regarding advanced technology and reversed engineering of these crashed vehicles. I am in the same position. I am in receipt of information I simply can't talk about.
"These things are monitored. It's not a slap on the wrist. You end up in prison for violation of security oath so we have to be very careful."
Connacht astronomer, Dr Eamonn Ansbro, claimed 30 years ago that UFOs were orbiting earth on specific orbital tracks, and captured alleged footage of a 'tic tac' UFO over Lough Key.
"I know Dr Ansbro's material," said Dr Kelleher. "From what I can see his premise is that there are a lot of probes on predictable orbits. Absolutely, 'Tic tac' cases are perfect examples of that. They came in on very similar ballistic missile trajectory orbits, coming in at 80,000 feet. Very, very predictable.
"The USS Princeton had them on radar day after day. On day 5, they launched the F-18s to vector them. So, Eamonn Ansbro's theory has a lot of merit. Another good thing about his theory is that it is very testable. It can be tested against multiple databases. Not easy, but definitely doable."
Is there any workable explanation for the triangle UFOs which have been photographed by US Navy personnel and engaged with by the Belgian Air Force?
"At NIDS we did a lengthy investigation of the black triangles. 150 cases. These things were one hundred yards long, low flying, huge, coming in over neighbourhoods and interstate highways and flying at tree top level.
"Brightly lit and silent. After the first ten we thought it has to be an advanced tech Special Access Programme by the Air Force. But the pilots were taking enormous risks over populated neighbourhoods with experimental craft?
"After 100 cases we concluded they were not US Air Force. Pilots were violating all safety features. It was decided the phenomenon was mimicking SAPs. We created a hypothesis: 'bi-directional mimicry' where the phenomenon was reflecting back to us what our advanced SAPs were doing.
"They were not us. But it was so confusing. Low flying, massive black triangles. One flew over Scott Air Force base in Illinois on January 5, 2000. Four separate police precincts with multiple officers watched it move around. It was unbelievable.
"The Pentagon has had a cushy number covering this up for years. The cat is out of the bag. There's no putting the genie back now."
'Project Morrigan' is an initiative brought to Dáíl Eíreann by researchers Chris Gaffney and Dr Eamonn Ansbro to establish an Irish research body to scientifically study UAP over Ireland.
"I think that would be great," said Dr Kelleher. "For the Irish Government to get out in front of the UAP issue and take the initiative of forming a scientific body (with a reporting mechanism for the Irish public to report UAPs) to study UAPs. This would be very innovative.
"If the initiative was serious, with a couple of internal champions and not just a PR exercise, I would consider getting involved," Dr Kelleher added.
The next planet may not suffer the fate of Venus. The inhabitants will not have intra system travel. Humans will, but only by remote. The three day period of Solar loss will not allow landing there.
Strange there have been so few atempts at landing on Jupiter or Saturn. I expect apologists to advance many excuses.