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MindMatters: The Unbroken Individual Is the True Source of Moral Responsibility

Harrison Koehli, L.P. Koch, Elan Martin, Adam Daniels
Sott.net
Fri, 16 Jun 2023 00:00 UTC

This week on MindMatters we take a third and final look at the prescient and resounding thoughts of Ernst Jünger's The Forest Passage and reflect on what it means - in the philosophical and practical sense - to be a forest walker, or forest rebel. For our previous episodes on the book see:

How one resists and chooses to respond to totalitarianism is at least as crucial as making the choice itself. But what are some of the many considerations involved? What inner resources does one draw upon and where might one find the light that helps to make the best of all choices? What does one fall back on when many of the institutions that are meant to morally support a society have been effectively gutted, or done away with completely? What is the responsibility of an unbroken and 'concrete individual' to step in and rectify institutional failure to some degree? And where does the power of the spoken or written word fit into this complex equation?

Running Time: 01:18:45

Download: MP3 — 108 MB

Adam Daniels

Adam joined the editorial team in 2014 and is a co-host of MindMatters. His particular interests include philosophy, history, exercise science, and technology. He particularly dislikes Critical Race Theory and people who're so afraid of death that they prevent others from living. He also knows kung fu.

Harrison Koehli

Harrison Koehli co-hosts SOTT Radio Network's MindMatters, and is an editor for Red Pill Press. He has been interviewed on several North American radio shows about his writings on the study of ponerology. In addition to music and books, Harrison enjoys tobacco and bacon (often at the same time) and dislikes cell phones, vegetables, and fascists (commies too).

Elan Martin

Born and raised in New York City, Elan has been an editor for SOTT.net since 2014 and is a co-host for MindMatters. He enjoys seeing and sharing what's true about our profoundly and rapidly changing world.

Reader Comments

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-17T00:24:19Z

Thank-you for this episode truly 28:30 minutes into it and I'm humbled by the assessment and knowledge presented.

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-17T00:33:07Z

Buffalo_Ken - I still have to read the book and it has been suggested I focus on the later text, but like most things I'm sure it builds upon itself. I appreciate the breadth of knowledge the speakers on the podcast are willing to share with others and I know that together we can try to make heads or tails of what is going on in the world today, but lets be honest, a moment presents itself when the coin is flipped and it either come up heads or tails - the wise person is ready to respond regardless of the outcome of chance, but sometimes even wisdom falls upon itself upon outright evil intent that speaks for no others......and so, one is left wondering......is there a response to evil intent that will prevail or is it fate to always have evil intent nearby. I'd argue it is not our fate to have that, but that is an argument I'm sure I'd lose if there were not others who concurred.

So, just goes to show - the way against evil is not the conventional path - and could be the forest holds the clue to that. I hope so. If you want some forest time then go to the woods is what I would suggest.

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-17T01:17:27Z

Per the discussion at 44 minutes in, I think it is fair to say that Bonnie and Clyde were not your average every day criminals - they were folks who in their mind differentiated between justice in place and justice fair. With that said, Bonnie and Clyde met their fate in LA on a lonely highway after they were betrayed by one of their own and some Tejas Rangers assured they met their fate. Being they caused all the harm they did, no doubt they met their fate.

In a very nuanced way Junger describes our situation presently as said by the speaker at 50 minutes in and hard not to agree.

Begs the question - what is to be done about it? Technocratic ideals are not very fulfilling - they don't make one feel alive. But power of the forest walker is power undeniable - I know this already - I know it.

In our present age, each day can bring new ideas.....exercising resistance to this is legal.....but individual insistence is incumbent and effective forms exist to this end and we must be ready to use them and a tiny minority can bring down a colossal authority......if said authority is based upon nothing but an obvious lie and contradiction.

So there is not bastion to be unafraid as they want to suggest, but I suggest that in the forest, there is nothing to be fearful of.....the immortal spirit of man will be invigorated when a spirit refuses to be institutionalized by others who know no better, but themselves are fear-based in how they interact and treat others.

OK - this is too much to take in on the fly, but 1 hour into it, one can't help but wonder if institutions are not being attacked by forces who want to ground to rumble culture of others....if they have this ambition, then seems as if the moment of truth is upon us. We either will refute their efforts or we will succumb to them and if we do succumb to them, then they will succeed in their efforts to destroy all humanity once and for all - so seems evident, we ought rebuff, refuse, refute, and deny those who feel they can control and dominate us. In the world of ideas, it is imperative, to never give in to the ideas of harm.

Semantics are not trivial.

Language makes things comprehensible.

1 hour 10 minutes into this and I think I ought just click the button - "Add Comment"...so I will.

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-17T12:37:38Z

Buffalo_Ken Well thought. Quote: "a tiny minority can bring down a colossal authority".

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T21:07:45Z

Dwoods44 - to be fair, when I posted that above, I think I was sort of "stream of conscious" typing what I was hearing at the moment and so I'm pretty sure it is one of the hosts on this episode that said those words, and then like a "parrot" I repeated them, but it must be the words resonated in my mind such that they went from my brain to my fingers to the keyboard to be typed using language we all share.

I'm so glad in 11th grade I took a class in typing - the teacher was the coach of the Cheerleaders and she suffered no fools - she liked me if I must say, because I can type fast!

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-19T02:49:33Z

Buffalo_Ken I feel fortunate that I took typing in high school too. It made so many things easier later.

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-17T12:48:20Z

The Forrest Passage has brought forth some of your best discussions, delving into many different areas. Bravo.

At the end, you speak of language, the naming of things brings light to our understanding, and this is why the poet is a key to reinvigorating the human spirit.

Think about one word, "chair". Think about all of the "connections" that one word has. Purpose. Design. Structure. Construction. Materials. History. Energy. Family dinner. Community meeting. Trees, and their use, if the chair is wood. Role it played in society, like the Ming horsehoe-backed folding chair for travel. [Link] This is made from huang-huali wood.

Think about "man" being spoken by God. Think about all of the "connections". Molecules, cells, organs, systems, sight, sound, touch, soul, body, thought, emotion, building, painting, writing, sculpting, government, role in society.

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-17T13:19:25Z

Dwoods44 From Rilke's Ninth Elegy,

Since the traveller does not bring a handful of earth from mountain-slope to valley, unsayable to others, but only a word that was won, pure, a yellow and blue gentian.

Are we here, perhaps, for saying: house, bridge, fountain, gate, jug, fruit-tree, window – at most: column, tower......but for saying, realise, oh, for a saying such as the things themselves would never have profoundly said.

redrock12 · 2023-06-17T23:54:18Z

Great show guys. What else is there to say?

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-18T12:12:59Z

One of the topics was the Gurdjieff concept of conscience. What does it mean? Are we Pinocchio doing bad things and the Cricket is our conscience? An exploration using Gurdjieff as one word connects to many things.

In Gurdjieff’s Fourth Way system, man is a 3 brained being: moving/instinctive, emotional and intellectual. The Ouspensky lineage separated moving and instinctive with the observation that movement is learned. These represent domains of information. Your emotions and intellect do not need to remember the path to the bathroom, the way to drive to work or how to ride a bike if you have learned. Your moving brain has the map information of these connections to movement in space.

In the Ouspensky lineage each brain can be divided into actions requiring no or automatic attention, attracted or drawn attention, and directed or controlled attention. Each of these can be further divided. This leads to the observation that the common deck of playing cards that we have all used is esoteric information. Clubs are the instinctive, spades are the moving, hearts are the emotion, and diamonds are the intellect. The 2 jokers represent the higher emotional and intellectual centers in Gurdjieff’s system, connected to awakening or higher consciousness.

We use the word “I” to mean many different things with different values. How many times does a child say “I hate you” or “I love ice cream”? The controlled attention parts of these brains all are similar in that they have “perspective”, there are “angles” of thought as there is three dimensional space. Thus the directed attention part of the emotional brain can see emotional perspectives. What is truth in this context?

Conscience is emotional truth for oneself. If your emotional identity says “I never gossip”, your higher emotional center can wake you up when you are gossiping. Conscience is a unification of your emotional being.

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-26T14:24:39Z

Dwoods44 David R Hawkins who died in 2012, created the hierarchy of consciousness, giving a path of development. According to this map, courage at 200 marks a dividing line. Below 200 are negative emotions, like fear and anger. Above 200 are acceptance, reason, love and higher consciousness.

What interests me is Shame is the lowest state, from which it is easy to commit suicide. It is only in the last decade or so that it is being studied in psychology. Each of these negative emotions below 200 keep an individual from advancing higher. What is courage then? It not only the courage to face external danger and difficulty, it is the courage to see oneself. When you see yourself truthfully but compassionately, you move to acceptance.

The hierarchy of consciousness is important because Hawkins said the bell curve of humanity has risen above 200 in 2007, if I remember right.

Shangri · 2023-06-18T20:55:32Z

46ms "arisen through the ranks of the factions, the triumphant factions,, through the gift of being, to purposes of the day, acts directed at the whole, being impaired from the start"

---

and due to - the lack of general sovereigns - the cabal are made strong by acceptance of their offerings, habituated needs that require transformation to satisfy the mass appetite , and with that level of power, comes the ability to frame the future around their desired image...the people will build it, just as long as they believe themselves to be living life to their own triumphant desires.

....What We Do

[Link]
(not for the unbroken)

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T21:10:26Z

Shangri - too bad I can't watch that because of the boycott - can you share are more detailed synopsis of it?

Shangri · 2023-06-18T21:23:09Z

Buffalo_Ken Hello BK.

....try this for size.

IMVDB (FILMEDINSERT LLC)

...What We Do.

[Link]

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T21:25:39Z

Shangri - will do. About to click the link.....

" What We Do - by Devo " - interesting.

Thanks for that, but I don't consider that a more detailed synopsis - it seems like a distraction.

Can you elaborate rather than just insinuate?

Shangri · 2023-06-18T21:34:28Z

Buffalo_Ken how on earth did you arrive at "distraction" BK ?.

it's self- evident, i.e.....no explanation required.

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T22:05:31Z

Shangri - is that your final answer?

I mean if you expect me to do all the work to comprehend some sort of wisdom or message you are trying to send, don't you think that is sort of pompous? Plus, if you can't even succinctly explain it yourself, makes one wonder whether you even know.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but just like yours, my time is precious. Oh my precious as gollum said holding the ring....

Lastly, self-evident, just like self-fulfilling is in the mind of the self thinking it, and frankly, some ideas are in need of elimination. Self-fulfilling ideas are near the top of the list in my mind....but what do I know - I'm just a peasant.

In my peasant mind, I'm tired of the Calvinist, I'm tired of the Zionist, and I'm tired of 20th century bullies.

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T22:27:47Z

Buffalo_Ken - a few links in support of my debate points:

[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
[Link]
So that is a path of links about gollum and the ring in the Lord of the Rings, then something about Heinlein - a fine science fiction writer in the mind of a young man, and lastly a link to Schumacher who thought "Small is Beautiful" - that is what I think as well.

So, just to be an open book - this is a way to share information in the modern age that is harmless.

There is beauty in that. What there is NOT beauty in is what we sense day after day....so one, another, others, all of us - can't help but wonder: Why? Then after you give it consideration, hard not to conclude there are harmful forces out there - nobody said anything would be easy, but still a fair question is why be harmful intentionally?

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T22:38:44Z

Buffalo_Ken - To take this to its conclusion - humans, individuals, who choose to cause harm intentionally to so many others have reached a precipice where they must not realize that there are so many more of us not harmful. At some point, it must be concluded that if there is a cancer amongst the species willing to cause so much harm that the possibility of extinction in non-trivial, then the cancer must be rooted out, eliminated, pushed over the precipice, removed from positions of authority.

Shangri · 2023-06-18T22:42:45Z

Buffalo_Ken Buckethead - Silent Scream

[Link]

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T22:48:43Z

Shangri - you know I can't click that....but you can't deny - that was a good rant - was it not?

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T22:49:03Z

Shangri - now have a 2-1-2 hug.

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T22:49:17Z

Shangri - now a 3-1-3 for good measure.

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-18T23:08:23Z

OK, after consideration - this is the quote from the book I choose to present:

From: The Master Theorem - A Book of Puzzles .....(and whatnot).

Synesthesia - January 11

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Brains are weird. From the seemingly nonsense connections of my mind in the minutes before sleep to the way I perceive numbers and letters, my mind (and your mind, I'd bet) is a mystery.

Makes the whole world just a touch more colorful, you know?

Now, from the "Forest Passage", page 67 in my edition:

We have repeatedly used the image of man's meeting with himself. Indeed, it is important for anyone intending to undertake a risky venture that he first gain a precise idea of himself. In this the man onboard the ship must take his measure from the man in the forest - that is, the man of civilization, the man involved in the movements and historical phenomena must refer back to his latent supra-temporal essene, which incarnates into history and is transformed within it.

What you make of that Shangri ? And realize, if you answer this, you set yourself up for a 4-1-4....just saying.

Ken

Shangri · 2023-06-19T02:32:13Z

Buffalo_Ken ....essentially, the words point to the experience of parting, a bumpy journey that sheds "life's" supererogatory substitutes, and from there, the outer journey commences....he goes on to say: " In this process, the mirror image contemplates the primal image, from which it emanates and in which it is inviolable— or, equivalently, the inherited being remembers that which underlies all inheritance" . So, the corporeal facade is overpowered by the pure essence of being , and from then on, perhaps much depends on the individual, from here, there were what you could call, tests, and on reentry, well, enough to make it so you won't ever forget leaving, but regardless, everything changes.

Buffalo_Ken · 2023-06-19T14:22:10Z

Shangri - that is the kind of detail I was seeking - it sounds awesome to me. I guess I should check out the " What We Do " link closer.

Thanks!

Ken

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-19T13:03:23Z

Here is a link to Out of the Shadows a documentary from 2020 about evil in Hollywood. It begins with some of those who claim they made a deal with the devil, including Bob Dylan. It is done by a Hollywood stunt man who had first hand knowledge. [Link]

lilies · 2023-06-20T15:58:18Z

Great Show! As always, keep them coming!

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-21T17:25:40Z

Here is Dr. Shiva who ran for Senator in Massachusetts and the "election-selection" system won. He is a scientist and engineer, and he teaches Systems thinking.

He basically says everyone with power is part of the system of control, which many SOTT readers and editors agree with. In this video he lays out the "Swarm" which controls the information of the 8 billion. What is the desired result of the "swarm": obesity, stupidity, happy(dopamine levels), divided, isolated, disconnected, helpless, looking for a SAVIOR on the materialist level, disorganized, mesmerized with the UFOs.

Whether you agree with him or not he brings Systems thinking to analyzing reality. [Link]

ReRan · 2023-06-29T18:02:41Z

Dwoods44 I finally got a chance to watch that, thanks so much!

Dwoods44 · 2023-06-30T18:25:33Z

ReRan Dr. Shiva is great for learning systems thinking. Back in 2020-2021 he was more balanced. Since then, he became a target and responds pretty aggressively which I don't appreciate, though I still watch him on occasion.