Dr. Jeremy Ayres
This week our resident health experts Elliot Overton and Doug DiPasquale interview Dr Jeremy Ayres on the underlying causes of dis-ease in our modern world and how many people suffering are not sick, but are actually tox-sick. Dr Jeremy explains how purely mechanistic approaches to dis-ease are fundamentally flawed in many ways, and provides precious insight into the natural, intuitive methods of healing and detoxification intelligently employed by the body.

Dr Jeremy Ayres is a Doctor of Osteopathy, Naturopractic Consultant, and Senior Practitioner of Physical Medicine. He believes in the Noun definition of Doctor which means Teacher & Educator. For more than 29 years Dr Jeremy has helped many 1000's around the world, often from so called in-cure-able dis-ease to become vibrantly well and pain free. His own wife before he met her was diagnosed terminally ill and 6 years on (and now husband & wife) is vibrantly well and cancer free. His regular broadcasts, lectures and blog are widely acclaimed and he is a sought-after guest on numerous Internet, TV & radio shows.

Dr Jeremy's vision has been to bring the truth to the people concerning all aspects of what dis-ease is and what it most certainly is not, as well as the powerful and simple protocols that can bring people back to vibrant health and help them evolve into better, healthier human beings. His upcoming book "YOU'RE NOT SICK, YOU'RE TOX-SICK" fully explains all the major causes and solutions to mans dis-ease.

His website: https://www.naturallybettershop.com/
Blog: https://www.naturallybettershop.com/blog
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/naturallybettershop/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/drjeremyayres

And be sure to check out testimonials from those who have benefitted from his approach:

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Running Time: 01:11:31

Download: MP3 - 64.8 MB

Here's the transcript of the show:

Elliot: Hello everyone and welcome to this week's edition of Objective: Health. My name is Elliot. I'm your host today and joining me in the studio is Doug. Hey Doug.

Doug: Hey Elliot.

Elliot: Listeners are going to be very pleased to hear that we have another guest this week, a very special guest. His name is Dr. Jeremy Ayres. Jeremy Ayres is a doctor of osteopathy and naturopathic consultant. He's also a senior practitioner of physical medicine. He believes in the noun definition of doctor, which means teacher and educator. For more than 29 years Dr. Jeremy has helped many thousands around the world, often from so-called "incurable" disease to become vibrantly well and pain-free. His own wife, before he met her, was diagnosed terminally ill and six years on and now husband and wife, is vibrantly well and cancer-free. His regular broadcasts, lectures and blog are widely acclaimed and he is a sought-after guest on numerous internet, TV and radio shows. So Dr. Jeremy, we are very pleased to have you on the show today. Welcome.

Jeremy: Well I'm very honoured to be here. When people read that kind of bio I think they'll go, "That guy sounds interesting. I hope I live up to it." [laughter]

Elliot: So Jeremy, you're a doctor of osteopathy. I've seen what you've written in the past. I've listened to your interviews and I've seen you here and there and it seems that your body of knowledge spans way beyond osteopathy. It's in many different fields so it seems that you know a lot about nutrition but then also many other factors involved in healing. What initially drew you to your profession, first of all? Then what kind of spurred you on to step outside of the boundaries of that as well?

Jeremy: Well it's an interesting story that actually started around about 12 years old. I realize that's where my story was beginning, but around 11 or 12 - and I had no intentions of going down this route at all - I came from a building family and was set to go into the family building career and what have you. But my brother's wife's mother was diagnosed with breast cancer and went on to actually pass and of course my brother wife was extremely upset and everyone was including her husband.

There was a lot of anger, understandably. I was very young remember, but there was a lot of anger and she said one thing that really, really just stuck in my mind. She actually said "How can there be a god that would take my mother from me because she was a lovely, lovely woman and loved by her husband?" It just struck me so deeply, that sentiment, because I was just young, went to school, introduced to aspects of god and how the world is supposed to be, without knowing anything. But I thought, "What a fantastic question!" If there is such a deity at that point, could allow such horrific suffering and things to happen and it never really went away. It kind of just fibrillated in the back of my mind, but not much more.

In my early 20s and late teens, I was an international athlete. I represented Great Britain in canoeing and it was coming up to the Olympic year and it was my first chance at really going to the games. This is all going to tie in with what I just said. My first chance going to the Olympic games. I didn't actually. Halfway through that year of extensive training - and I'm not a natural competitor - I just stuck in it for years and got to the top, but there's people out there, if they lose they're like, "Well I'm going to kill you next time." I wasn't. If you beat me I was like, "Well done! Jeez you're good!" And that's really not the right attitude to have and also it used to have me permanently in the bathroom before a competition because I was just so petrified and nervous. So I wasn't well-suited to these things.

But anyway, it came to getting on in that particular athletic year and I was in a four-man boat and we were the fastest in the country at that time. I was hurt badly and realized that many illnesses and dis-ease, which is how I differentiate it from disease, but dis-ease is actually a blessing in disguise and that may have shocked some people at the time, particularly if they've lost people. But it truly is or has the potential to be a blessing in disguise. I hurt my back very badly and I couldn't stay in the boat so I left the boat and all I knew was I didn't like doctors at all. I that's a fairly common thing actually and I didn't know what osteopathy was but there was this portly chap, not very healthy looking, that was on the squadders, an osteopath, and he would charge us next to nothing to go and see him.

So I thought I'd venture down there to see him. He had a very busy clinic with lots of students in there and he took me in with no explanation and this east German woman who had more facial hair that me at the time [laughter] and larger muscles then went on to torture me. I'd like to say massage, but it tortured me and I was too English to complain. So I'm lying there thinking "What the hell's going on here!?" After about 20 minutes of torture, which is not how it should be by the way, but anyway, incomes this portly chap, puts me into what I thought was a pseudo-sexual position at the time, no explanation [laughter] and after the shock of being traumatized by the east German man - I mean woman - he adjusted me and the pain practically vanished! Eighty percent gone! And that was it. That was it. I was just absolutely blown away that the pain was so reduced under these conditions.

And that was it. I just knew I couldn't do anything else but this and I had to learn it. I didn't have the right education and no one believed I could do it and everyone thought I was crazy to start it, but I knew, I just knew, this is what I have to do. So I managed to get myself into what was supposed to be the best osteopathic college in London at the time, by hook or by crook. I now think they just wanted my money. But anyway, I got myself on the course and after about a year sitting there, I was bored out of my brains which was a bit of a disappointment and I was sitting next to this northern chap who's a great osteopath now, and he was everything I didn't really like. He was a bigot, a racist. He just upset everybody and he enjoyed the process and I couldn't understand why I liked him because it just wasn't usual for me.

One day he just turned round and said, "This is crap, isn't it?" And I was like whoa! My god! I'm not the only one. He told me that his fathe,r who trained under a great man called Harry Hawes who's now long passed, was starting a course again in osteopathy outside of Durham in a place called Oshamore College which was a bit like a Hammer House of Horror movie set. Elliot, you've probably don't know what I'm talking about but anyone who remembers the old Hammer House of Horror, it was all these old gray buildings and mist and it was terrible.

So I sent up north and walked into what is a Catholic priest training school with lots of very large paintings of frightened choir boys and dodgy looking priests [laughter] and into this room where the equipment was second-hand, ripped and very bad and I met Harry and within 10 minutes of Harry talking - he was in his 70s at that point - you knew you were in the presence of a master, not that he would have accepted those terms at all. He was a very humble chap. But he was absolutely a healer and I don't care if that is a non-scientific term for people out there. He was absolutely brilliant. Why he was brilliant was not just because of his technical ability and his knowledge, but his empathy for human beings and suffering and pain and he genuinely cared for people, as did his lovely wife.

And so I was very fortunate that he took me very much under his wing. In fact he came up to me one day and said "You've got it!" which was very intimidating at the time but I needed to hear it as well. But anyway, he took me under his wing and I trained to become an osteopath which I became. He was very anti-establishment and all of this stuff because he could see that mostly it was run by people who were just lining their own pockets and had other agendas, very ahead of his time, really for back then.

By the time I came out of that, this fibrillation of a memory with my brother's wife's was just building and building in me and it sparked this incredible interest because he had healed so many things that technically he shouldn't have really been dealing with. So I wanted to know. in fact, probably very arrogantly probably at the time I thought, "I want to know what causes cancer and what heals cancer" and all these sort of things. If I look back, I was either stupid or arrogant, I don't know what, but that's what I put out there. And I was intent to find out. I'll just finish very quickly how I got onto my second mentor.

There was an osteopath at conference weekend and I got very drunk. It was fantastic! This woman the next day, called Barbara Wren, who was my second mentor and a real genius who's been hounded into hiding in her 80s now because she's so good and that's what we do when someone's very good, we make sure they disappear and run away and hide. But I heard about this woman who was going to be talking for two hours on water and disease and I thought, "How the hell can anyone talk for two hours on water?!"

So anyway, I walked in the next morning with a hangover, about 15 minutes late, these double doors were like a bad western movie. The doors opened. She stopped. They stopped. They all looked at me. I'm sure I looked like crap actually. But I walked to the middle and sat down and within 15 minutes my jaw was on the floor as this woman started to describe the inner aspects of what causes dis-ease. It's very, very important that we get that in there. I was just absolutely mesmerized by what she was saying and what she'd done and I was very fortunate that she allowed me to come and live in the same town as her and study with her and teaching at her college and spend a lot of time with her. She is a genius, because she's still alive, and she's absolutely brilliant.

And then from there it's just been 25 years of research, research, research - and we can talk about that in a minute - because when you actually go down these routes, you find what you weren't expecting to find, which is just about everything that people think was right is upside down and wrong and that's not a very popular place to start working from. But it's pretty much how it is.

Elliot: With osteopathy in the UK, I know a couple of osteopaths and what they've told me anyway is there's a witch hunt going on at the moment. I know that you've only just moved back to the UK, but there's a witch hunt. So essentially what the regulatory bodies are trying to do is trying to force them into musculoskeletal problems only. That is at odds with Taylor Still's original philosophy, no? So osteopathy as a healing system, applied like a whole health care system, is being shunted out. So have you noticed that, through making recommendations that aren't simply in the realm of osteopathy but actually healing in terms of everything to do with someone's lifestyle? Have you found that you've had any problems from up top? Has anyone told you to step back in line so to speak?

Jeremy: Well you're not shying away from the big questions are you? [laughter] Which I'm really pleased about. You can see how Harry was right, how I mentioned he didn't like the authorities and regulations. You'd think we're in the time of information but we're actually in the time of misinformation. If you want to stay away from what many would think were conspiratorial, which they're not, but if you want to stay away from that and just keep it more at a level that most people would probably understand and accept, modern medicine is a business model. That's what it is. It is an absolutely huge business and if you actually look into the real history of where it has stemmed from, you'll start to see that it was a very, very deliberate business plan, executed absolutely brilliantly and they don't like competition.

The knowledge that some of these amazing people have out there, basically gets people off of drugs most of the time or it means that they no longer need to go and see a general practitioner or general poisoner I generally call them. They're not needed anymore. This is very, very dangerous. So what has happened is they are the so-called authorities meant to be working in your best interests, at least that's what most people would think, are not working in your best interest. They're putting more and more and more pressure on people. Hence, why I want to get away from labels because if you're recognized as an osteopath they want to put you in this box.

Well you're a human being actually. You're not an osteopath. You're a human being with a certain amount of knowledge and anyone who works in any field of helping people to recover their health or from pain, usually their knowledge expands out and they start to see other aspects that they want to share. Most of those people genuinely want to see people get well.

Barbara Wren, who is one of the most brilliant people I've ever had the pleasure to work and study with and seeing what she can do, the BBC went in and secretly filmed her when she was lecturing. Actually I know the lecture very well. So what they did was cherry pick some sound bytes and put it all together and made her look like a raving lunatic and then a gorilla stormed her on the street. The woman was 76 or something then - she's bright as a button - but just totally made her look for the tele-lie-vision, absolutely like a mad woman and most people sitting there would accept it.

You know what? If you put someone like Barbara Wren in charge of one hospital for one year you'd have a very, very different outcome, positively in a year's time and that's the truth, that she's competition. That's what we're dealing with incredibly, because with the internet now they're foolish because you can't stop this information. It's why we do this by the way, to share this and get it out. You can't stop this information and the people that I respect most, actually have usually been sick, whether that be the mothers of autistic children who I do a lot of work with or someone with the disease commonly known as cancer because that's their language by the way. You can't even use that word in England. "That's my word, not yours. You can't use it."

From Phil Escott who you interviewed recently who healed himself of rheumatoid arthritis which is absolutely unheard of and in the rheumatoid arthritis groups they kick him out because he dares say he's healed himself of rheumatoid arthritis. However, there are great people out there searching for the answers because the doctors, most of which really have gone into it for a career rather than a vocation - there are very good doctors out there but they're few and far between, in my experience - are failing people in what we would understand as health, which is not necessarily just the absence of dis-ease or symptoms. It's many levels of what we would call good health.

Doug: Just incidentally Jeremy, if you did want to get conspiratorial, we're totally okay with that. [laughter]

Jeremy: Okay. I'll actually address that in a more broad manner Doug, if you don't mind. You are probably aware that the CIA coined the term after the JFK assassination because people were discussing the authenticity and accuracy of the information being fed to them and to stop that they came up with "conspiracy think" or "conspiracy theory" and it was very effective. So it's being used now with all manner of topics to just throw people off the scent.

But a conspiracy, if we're going to be accurate, basically conspiracy theory is a theory, that something is not as you've been told. Once you've got some credible information, arguably even facts, it becomes a conspiracy possibility. When it is inundated with information and facts and resources, it's a bloody conspiracy! And we live in a world absolutely full of them under the guise of corporate control. If anybody is listening to this and they think, "Oh god, I thought this guy would be interesting but he's a nutter", you need to go onto YouTube and watch, for example, a very long documentary, I believe it's called The Century of the Self which is a documentary by I think it was Freud's nephew. I may be wrong on that. But one of the great psychiatrists. I's sure it was Freud's nephew.

He was employed to advise corporations and advertising, and that would include the governments and things, on how to make you want what you don't want, accept what you wouldn't accept and need what you don't need without you knowing it. Anyone who's done any research into marketing and advertising knows it's psychology and on and on it goes. This actually ties in to what I do.

People are in dis-ease whether they know it or not because for me, dis-ease at the very core is a frequency of truth and we are living in a world of such immense deception that unless you know this or have some idea of it, you will think people like me are complete quacks and mad and nutters and what have you. But as you well know, there's a massive growing body of people that are aware of the lies. You asked me about my research. Once you start going down the realms I did, you start to realize very, very quickly that just about everything you thought was correct is upside down.

Doug: Yeah.

Jeremy: And if you do multiple choice or slip a coin you're going to get heads as often as you get tails if you do it long enough. So it can't be by chance that everything is upside down. So that is the world you walk into and if I didn't walk into that world I'd be a lot richer right now. But for me and many others, really the motivation is truth. It's honour. It still means something to people, and integrity and wanting to help their fellow man. Unfortunately some of the great people I work with are nearly penniless trying to do this. It's just so upside down. If you want to sell out, you can make a lot of money but if you want to be in these realms, you're just basically opening yourself to many troubles.

However, within those troubles we've helped to heal. This is very important. I've never healed or cured anyone and anyone who says they do, they're done. What I have done is that I have the ability - much of it began with Barbara Wren teaching me how to do a case history - be able to see the levels of dis-ease, the levels of stress. These can be physical, chemical, toxic, emotional, mental, spiritual, so on and so forth - be able to see those and see what this human body which is a vessel that we occupy, has tried to do to remedy it. So once we see those levels, if someone has come to me with a label, "I have this" or "I have that", most of the time I have to go look up these bloody labels because there's so many of them now and I need to know the symptoms.

But once we've got all that down and in the time frame that it happened, it presents this beautiful clear picture of what the body's been trying to do because I'm telling you right now, your body doesn't know how to work against you. It's just not made that way! So it's always trying to preserve life and once you have these factors and you can see the picture, you can give it back to that human being. I don't want to say person because you probably know what a person is, but that human being. You give it back to that human being and I do it very deliberately because I'm getting away from that label that they've been given which has filled them with fear and also you start getting on Google and every time Google comes up you're dead or you're dying or you're going to die.

So we remove the fear and when you remove the fear or begin to remove the fear, then things open. When they're in fear, they're contracted and once they're open, they have a chance for the light to come in and this is what happens. They start to do things which is remove the stresses and the body knows how to heal itself. So I've never cured anyone. I've never healed anyone but I've helped thousand and thousands heal themselves.

Yes I've been involved in the process physically as well, but that's the truth of it.

Elliot: This is an absolutely fascinating kind of take on things especially for those of us who tend toward looking at things mechanistically. It's very easy to fall into the mechanistic standpoint whereby human beings are merely machines, we are biological machines that can be tweaked using various chemicals and whatnot and that if you get the chemical composition of a cell right then essentially, everything will fall into place. But what I personally find is that that doesn't work.

Jeremy: No.

Elliot: As I'm sure you know. So actually taking a position which factors in human beings as living things I think is fascinating. You were saying before about how a lot of what we're told or a lot of what we're taught is actually upside down and in regards to health, what might that mean? If our listeners are wondering "What does he mean by that?", what have you found works really well in actually helping people to heal but which is considered ...

Jeremy: Whacky.

Elliot: ...perhaps the opposite, yeah, kind of whacky?

Jeremy: It doesn't matter. People who get involved just in functional medicine or biochemical medicine will soon find out - I'm involved in groups - you will find out there's people who do everything right and they don't get well. They may improve, but they're not getting well so there must be other factors. One of my favourite movies is Blade Runner. I've watched it so many times. I see more in it every time and definitely people are switching off, "Oh my god! Blade Runner! I'm out of here!" [laughter]

Doug: No, it was the best!

Jeremy: It was the best, right? And one of the lines I like the most is when Harrison Ford says, "How can they not know what they are?" So let's start from that. This world has been made on purpose the way it is to keep you in busyness and arguably as an energetic slave. Now I use the word slave very deliberately and anyone who knows who I'm talking about will say "Oh yeah, he knows what he's talking about." An energetic slave. You're born into a world and you are in a system that's very well set up to program you into being another good little robot and get a good education, although my idea of what education is, is very different, and into the system and work and pay taxes and get married have children, de-de-de-de-de. Okay?

That's not how it was supposed to be and that's not how it was. Now I've worked with aboriginal, I've worked with the Maori, I've worked with North American Indians and several others. They think we're nuts for not recognizing our ancestors and the spiritual side and that that world exists. I've spoken to Masai. They look and laugh at us. So if you don't recognize from the get-go that this is flesh and if you're into quantum physic you argue that it's not even solid, but for purposes of this, this is flesh and something enters it that drives it, commonly called the soul or spirit or whatever you're comfortable with.

Now the Hindus did a lot of work at the end of life where they're weighing people in hammocks and at the moment of death, definite weight is lost. So something leaves that had weight or matter. And of course in the old days we'd use the words "they have passed" because they would recognize something has left the flesh and what is left may look like their dad or their mom or what have you, but life has left. At the other end there's a video which I've never been able to find again where somehow they filmed what they believe is when the soul or spirit enters into the human being and what is very, very interesting was that the blood starts to flow before the hear starts to beat, okay?

Now if you're not starting your body of knowledge in realms of health with the understanding and respect that something from another realm or dimension or whatever words you mean - no one really knows, as I know - but something entered that is you and brings life. And if you don't recognize that the parting, that something has left then in between you ignore all of that and you are just flesh and you're here to work and you're not. You're here to love and to create and to explore and I would argue, actually you're here to be a physical beacon of light and when you find people that are truly alive, they resonate light! They literally glow and they light the way for all of us. They pull us up. We want to be more like them.

So when you find someone in dis-ease, normally their frequency, their vibration, their energy is very low and when you start to go into a case history and you create a space where they can actually talk to you, rather than just give you what they think you want to hear, you start to hear things like great trauma or they're in a job they hate. They might be brilliant in it but they hate it. I had a very, very wealthy man with a great problem and the company was killing him. I said to him, "If you don't change what you're doing you're going to have the best funeral anyone's ever been to because you can afford it." That hit him like a ton of bricks because he needed that.

We can go on for hours, but unless you recognize that people have a divinity or a purpose or something in there - I hate the world spiritual, but a spiritual aspect, I think it's probably multi-dimensional - but if you don't recognize that, then when they get sick, you're not looking at the levels that go beyond that. How far are they off being true to themselves? How far are they off from who they really are that the physical diseases manifested to stop them, as it did for my wife because she was in corporate Canada? Really she's an artist and what the cancer did was stop her because it stops you, okay? And now she's doing what she should be doing, which is creating.

So for me, these things are fundamental. Otherwise, if we just do the biochemical functional adjustments to allow the blood, lymph and nerve flow, all we're doing is making healthier slaves. I'm not really interested in that. Does that help?

Doug: Yeah! Very interesting.

Elliot: Yeah. I'm assuming I know the answer to this, but have you found that this is essentially the game-changer in your experience? For instance, someone might recommend exactly the same protocol, let's say, with the same sort of support, the same dietary template, the same kind of lifestyle changes, but without that connection, without that deeper investigation that you're talking about, do you find that that is one of the things which really halts someone's healing? I think you just said that you did but I'm going to ask the question again. [laughter] Is that the game-changer essentially?

Jeremy: Yes, well it depends how far people want to go. There are people of course, that will just change to the carnivore diet, for example, or a paleo ketogenic diet and enough will change. The inflammation will go. The gut will heal and enough will change that they're very happy with that and they'll get on with their lives and that's absolutely fine. But that's not the people who come and see me. Usually - and it's still, I'm sad to say - usually the people who come to see me have been everywhere else and usually everything that's happened has actually made it worse.

So when I work with someone, particularly if they're very unwell, what I find is, if we've understood it correctly and we start to remove - as Phil Escott says the subtraction - we start to take away the stresses that have been put on their body such as inflammatory foods and toxic chemicals - but as we start to take those away and their body starts to heal, what I find usually within four to eight weeks, depending on people, is the more mental/emotional starts to come up and you start to see that they're not happy at all in who they are or what they're doing. Some people are way down the line. I'm getting younger and younger people. It's great.

Some people have lived a life in oppressive marriages or oppressive jobs even as they've done well in them and they're lost. I help a lot of nurses, for example. I've only had two doctors in 30 years and they didn't do what I said. [laughter] But lots of nurses come and see me and they tell me that in the hospitals they're having to have secret conversations amongst themselves so that a) they don't get fired and b) they're so frustrated because they're listening to things like this and they want to implement them into the hospitals, but they'll get fired.

So they're getting sick because they've learned enough that they're now seeing they have purpose and it's exciting them. They want to be real nurses - and I have a different definition of that - and they're getting sick because they're going to work, they're known as a nurse, they get paid to be a nurse, everyone wants them to be a nurse, they're probably a good nurse, but now they're really struggling to stick that needle into someone or give them this drug that they know is toxic and they've seen with different eyes.

So if you have someone like that, pretty much if you're going to help that kind of person, they normally leave nursing or evolve into a different area of nursing where they can bring this more complete way of helping people. I don't know if that answers your question.

Elliot: It's absolutely fascinating, what you're saying. It's in line with something else that you speak about; how sometimes the symptoms are like a form of communication, something underlying and it could be biochemical or it could be, as you're saying, related to their lifestyle, anything, It could be underlying trauma that's not dealt with or something, is actually manifesting as a physical symptom.

Jeremy: Absolutely!

Elliot: And you've spoken about suppressing that. So what do you think happens when you take a corticosteroid, let's say hypothetically, someone's skin is raging and actually it may be, from a naturopathic perspective, from the kind of thing that you're talking about, it could be some form of communication going on there, trying to communicate to the body that something is not right. If you take a steroid to suppress that, what do you think kind of happens on an informational level?

Jeremy: They're excellent questions and you have to go back to foundational roots. So if you're starting from a point of view and an understanding, as I have and that Barbara Wren gave me, the body doesn't know how to work against you. You wouldn't be looking at that skin in the same way as a dermatologist in the very first instance. So a dermatologist is going to look at it - and there's never been a skin condition I have haven't been able to resolve by the way - but the dermatologist will look at it and say, "Well you need steroids and you need to apply..." - and I started with eczema by the way. It's another one of my things because I wasn't breast fed, got given this crappy formula milk and as I know, it's really a gut/liver problem and the liver's not coping and it starts to use the skin to excrete it which is the largest organ of excretion.

So we would look at it immediately as "What is the body trying to do and why?" And that's always where we start. So if someone's skin is raging, unfortunately they've usually been to the doctors many, many times and done every kind of suppressing lotion and cream and medication. Let's look at what actually happens. So if it is true - and I'll put the 'if' - so if you can take away that they haven't been dermatologically irritated by some chemical or irritant and you can get that out of the picture, what you need to be looking at is, well if it is using the skin which is the largest organ of excretion and as in the Chinese or Asian philosophy, they look at it as the third kidney. So if somebody has very bad kidneys for example, they will use the skin to take pressure off the kidneys, infrared saunas, getting them sweating, that sort of thing. But if it is and you go and put some very toxic drug or lotion on and stop it and it appears to be improved, what you've actually done is you've pushed it, you've stopped it excreting, you've pushed it in and it will go deeper and in and up.

There's something called the Hering's law of cure which is homeopathic. In Hering's law of cure the dis-ease - it's very important that we differentiate these words - the dis-ease will leave head-down because the body wants to protect the brain, and in masse mental illness, people are very, very toxic, very sick, very nutritionally deficient when it gets up to that level - but the dis-ease will leave from the head down, move from major organ which keeps you alive, to minor organ - this is the process of healing - from inside out and in the reverse order in which it came.

That's why we do a case history. It's very often you can see them re-visiting things that they had in the past as they heal. So if you flip that, I call it Dr. Jeremy's rule of getting sick really, which is if you suppress the skin, it will very often go to the lungs. So when people have eczema, it's just a label. Eczema doesn't exist. For people out there with terrible eczema, yes it does. No, it's described as this and called that. That's what I'm saying. But if you had eczema and you used steroid creams, which was used on me and many, many people that come to me, normally it moves into the lungs. So they start to get allergies or asthma. You can escape that entirely but if it moves to the lungs and you keep suppressing that with inhalers or antihistamines, it then tends to go to the mind.

For example, at 13 I was very depressed. I didn't know why I was depressed at 13, but I'd been on steroids for many, many years and you'll see this all the time. So you see this movement of dis-ease going in and deeper and when people come to see me, very often they've got to a state where they've got almost no energy, they're very depressed, they very often have very bad thoughts, they have lots of anger usually, they've got all kinds of nebulous problems going on and if they've manifested any kind of growth or anything of course they're focused on that. They're in a very high state of fear.

So when you operate from a foundation that the body doesn't know how to work against you and you're looking at 'how did it get to this state', you would never see someone come in with a horrendous skin problem and start with "well let's just try and clear her skin up and make it look better". And by the way, ask pretty much anyone who's had a skin problem, when they put these creams on, what normally happens is it appears to go away and then it spreads and it makes perfect sense why it spreads because you're blocking the ability for it to come out so it has to go somewhere else and that's almost always the case, for example with skin conditions.

Elliot: It throws a whole new light on how medicine is practiced today and how fundamentally wrong it is in so many ways, or let's say how fundamentally at odds it is with more traditional, intuitive methods of healing which have worked for thousands of years. It's like we came along and we said, "We're going to scrap everything that we've been working from and take this whole new model" and look where it's gotten to. Our health, people are in a mess.

Jeremy: Good business.

Doug: Yeah.

Elliot: Indeed, indeed.

Jeremy: I state it cynically, but ask anyone in any country, as I always do, in the last 50 years, have the people of your country - and I've lived in many countries - gotten sicker or healthier? Everybody knows the answer. Not just sicker, much sicker. Now in the days where investigative journalism was revered, the basic rule was follow the money. Now if you follow the money, you will see, the top five or 10 - I think it's top five, at least it was in something like 2012 - the top 10 pharmaceutical companies on the Fortune 500, their combined profits are greater than the other 490 corporations. They celebrate. I've seen the videos. They don't hide it. They celebrate that they make 70% of their money from cancer medicine or the cancer treatment.

So what have we seen a dramatic increase in pretty much every civilized country around the world? Cancer! And heart disease! Who benefits because it's not families. They go through tremendous suffering. If we were actually in a world where politicians actually worked for us, they wouldn't be standing up saying how many people they'd treated this year more than last year and everyone applauding them. They'd be standing up saying how few people we've treated this year and they'd be celebrated obviously because they're that much healthier. But that doesn't make much money and it's more the money, as you well know.

Elliot: I know that you do a lot of work with nutrition as well. What have you found to work, just on that front? So whilst you're dealing with all of these other factors, building up a relationship with someone, with another human being and really trying to help them investigate what is exactly going on, help them really try to resolve that, what kind of factors do you deal with on the practical front? Is there any particular kind of diet that you will use more often? Is there any kind of lifestyle factors that you have found particularly beneficial in the people that you work with?

Jeremy: The first thing which still amazes me to this day is one has to start to define food to an ordinary human being now because most people are not eating food. They're eating absolute crap and as long as it tastes good, that's all that matters. Many people say "I have a balanced diet". [laughter] Actually they don't even really know what it is. Then you have the ones that think they're eating healthy, which is normally a plant-based whole food diet. Interestingly, I've studied Gerson and if you don't know Gerson, Gerson is like 13 juices a day, four coffee enemas and yes there is a reason people put coffee up their butts if you don't know. It stimulates the liver and bile flow, just in case you thought "Oh my god, he said coffee up your butt!" But Gerson was very successful, at least the father was and not so much now.

But about two years ago I had two vegans come to me at the same time in their late 50s that knew what they were doing because a lot of vegans out there just eat rubbish as many vegans know. By the way this isn't about the vegan bash, it just happens to be a fact. But they came to me and they were extremely unwell and it was very clear that they were nutritionally deficient. They really knew their stuff. That's really what started me down a road that I never expected to walk down, which was - to cut a long story short - it led me to the ketogenic and then the carnivore diet which, when you first come across these things, instinctually you just sort of go "What?!" I've always used bone broths and what have you and I knew the whole saturated fat and cholesterol thing was rubbish. You've only got to see, since they've changed away from those into these vegetable oils and horrible things and Crisco, how America's gone from thin to fat, cancer and heart disease and what have you.

But anyway, I came across the paleo ketogenic and the wonderful Hungarian doctor Zsófia Clemens and Csaba Toth and the wonderful Phil Escott and many others that have done just amazing things with either fatty meat or just an entirely eating meat diet. Once I looked into that it became very clear that pretty much everything that's been told about that was wrong and skewed and turns out supporting big agriculture which support big chemical, which is big pharma and round and round the merry-go-round we go again and come back to the same place. And here we are, once again, trying to educate people that are very unwell, particularly autoimmunes and things, that really, the most healing diet right now is one that is without plants and eating a lot of fatty meat. And as you know, miracles happen quicker than I've ever seen them!

Now within that, I don't like boxes and I can guarantee you, there are people who will not do well on that and they will do well on a vegan diet for a while. I followed Gerson getting himself well apparently and I pleaded with them to consider looking at this and they didn't because they invested so much into vegan and raw food and they died. So the fact is this. What I promote is you must listen to your body and there are people out there that are following to the letter carnivore or paleo ketogenic or keto, what have you and some of them will eat something that technically they shouldn't and they'll feel good. That is what you should do then!

I don't like these labels and boxes because what you eat and think today may be different tomorrow or further on and if you start to listen to your body, it will speak to you, it really will! Obviously sugar and chemicals and processed food and dah, dah, dah, but once you've got to that realm and you've cleaned your body up and you get the taste back, these things don't taste good anyway. So again, you would be listening to your body.

That's my take on it at the moment, but I have to say, I have never seen such tremendous physical transformations as the paleom ketogenic and carnivore diets, the mental/emotional transformations and people can slam it all they like on YouTube and they can present every scientific study that it's wrong and yet these people continue to thrive, mostly.

Elliot: I think what you said there also is such an important point about not being too strict, not being so regimented, especially if you are the type of personality who is often very hard on yourself and you cause yourself a lot of emotional stress doing that. It's actually causing more psychological stress to be so regimented, 100% animal products. It may actually be doing more harm than if you were to just go and eat that orange!

Jeremy: Right. Absolutely. Let's look at that. Someone wrote to me the other day, a lovely woman, because she's in the forums, you know, either on Facebook taking selfies, which I don't do, or you're doing something else, or bitching about somebody, or you're in a group. I love the CIA-funded Facebook for that because it's fantastic! [laughter] I've made such wonderful connections, including your good selves, and some of the best work is going on within those groups. There's always a few assholes in there, but it's really good.

The problem with these groups is I could be researching for the rest of my life and end up more confused. And all of it's very interesting. This woman wrote to me and she said, "Oh my god!" because I'd made one comment. I said "just listen to your body because if you're not careful you're going to go off on all these tangents which could take you down very real rabbit holes and get even more stressed." Let's just look at that at a real life situation.

A lot of people are looking at the vagus nerve, for example - at least I have been - of why they're not healing in spite of doing everything correctly. The vagus nerve is very much a part of the autonomous nervous system and the fight or flight and this whole world is set up to keep you in fear. Fear is the commodity of control. So they want you in fear. Now the vagus nerve controls the digestion and your lungs and several other things. It is called the wandering nerve. While you're constantly stressed - and stress is chemical, mental, emotional, spiritual, all these things - this vagus nerve is stimulated. You're in the fight or flight mode which has become normal for most people. They don't actually know what it is not to be in it which means your digestion will be different. Physiologically it will be different.

So you can't possibly heal your digestion or it's very unlikely I should say, in these states. I've got lots of clients that have come to me that have been following carnivore or following this or following that and they are not well. Phil knows this and he appreciates this very much. They haven't gotten better! And they've done everything. When you look at their lives, there has been great stress - bad divorces, in this world, financial is huge, so lots of financial problems and so on and so forth. In these states it's very, very difficult to actually get into that realm where you can start to stop deteriorating and then heal. Again, why I spend enormous time trying to see the human being because most of them are human doings that come to see me. I need to see the human being. I need to see all the factors. I'm like Billy Connolly and Gordon Ramsay when I work. There's laughter and tears but I get to see the human being.

Elliot: You don't shower them do you? [laughter]

Jeremy: Not like Gordon Ramsay, no, but my sons say "Oh my god daddy!" But normally it's laughter or I'm making a point or getting passionate, as you probably know I do. You just have to go look at my testimonials page, from the people that have worked with me. They come through as very different people and they love it. I have to say, sort of converse to that, the wonderful Dr. Paul Mabry is a wonderful American GP who I've got enormous respect for, and he's in a private group where we discuss things, pointed out to me, because I've been really quite hard on doctors because I've just seen how much damage they've done and very often they don't see it until they see it. If you don't understand that, whoever's listening, go and watch my two interviews with Valerie Warwick who is an oncology nurse of 18 years turned whistle blower in America. Until you see what you're doing, you actually do genuinely believe you're doing great work because they don't see the harm that many of us have seen.

But Dr. Paul Mabry who's absolutely a wonderful chap, brilliant doctor, said to me, and he's actually right of course, "The problem is, we're getting all these people coming to see us in this system that they don't even know they're in and they actually don't care to change. They're not interested in changing. They want the pain gone or the skin rash gone. So we give them the drugs because that's what they want." Now of course, that's been created, but when the drugs don't work - and the drugs never work in my view, they always suppress it and make you prolong getting it to work - finally they'll have to do something and that's usually when they end up at my door, which is just not a great place to start with. It's much easier if we catch them much earlier on.

But I understood the pressures doctors are under much more. They just want to be given something and they've been programmed for "Give me something Doctor! Doctor knows best. Give me something!" So I have more respect for them and hopefully they'll actually start working with us in the near future because as far as I'm concerned, the world is shifting and it would be much better if we worked together and create true hospitals which shouldn't look anything like they do. Oh my god! Go into a hospital when you're well and you feel sick. There should be light. It's an electromagnetic nightmare! It is just the worst place.

I had someone in a coma several years ago. His wife contacted me when he was in a coma. His testimony is on my page. I said, "Well look, he's in the worst possible place you can be and he's surrounded by electromagnetic pollution. What I suggest you do is get yourself earthed and hold his hand so at least it's discharging and keep spraying him with magnesium and cross your fingers. He came through enough. He thought I was mad at that point but he knew he was going to die so he said, "Look, I'd rather die at home. I'll come home and I'll talk to this bloke." When I did a consultation with him he was on 36 drugs!

Doug: Wow!

Jeremy: Thirty-six! Drugs! As we went through his case, you saw the more drugs he took, the worse he got until they gave him more drugs, and the worse he got, and the more drugs, and the worse he got, right? I said to him, "If you think these are actually helping you, pick any three and give them to your children." He laughed because how ridiculous is that? He said, "It'll make them ill!" And I said, "If it's going to make healthy children ill, how's it going to make a sick man well?" And it's that frickin' simple! It's that frickin' simple! But it's big business.

Elliot: I've never heard it put like that [laughter] but it makes perfect sense. It really does.

Doug: Yeah.

Elliot: You only have to use a toddler's logic, use common sense and it seems to work. Jeremy, when we were talking before the show, you mentioned you've got something planned for the future, no?

Jeremy: Yes.

Elliot: Talking about filming a documentary. Have you got anything that you could tell us about that?

Jeremy: Yeah, absolutely. I'm appearing at a conference in Spain with Phil Escott and Dr. Paul Mabry and Dr. Zsófia Clemens and the wonderful Graeme Norbury and Zahir Kahn and organized by the wonderful Dr. Lynn Hardy, very soon. We'll be doing another video to get the promo going but I've wanted to do something like this for a very long time. I'm writing a book as well. I've been asked to write a book for years. I'm writing a book and I have a publisher. But anyway, we're getting there.

But I knew we had some factors missing. You just kind of know in your gut when you've got some factors missing. I believe we've got those now and now because I'm working with these absolutely wonderful examples of human beings that have tremendous experience and knowledge and then they're titles, whether it be doctor or whatever it is, because they're human beings first, then a body of knowledge and then we put a label on them, in that order for me. These are extraordinary people. They're doing wonderful things.

We now can see that this body of knowledge that I'm beginning to share here with you, also has immediate critics coming in, with some very good questions. But we have the answers to those. So for example, most people are being told that cows are actually farting and destroying the planet [laughter] which couldn't be further from the truth. Happens to be a bacteria in the soil that loves cow methane and thrives on it. But anyway, we now know from some of these great people and true scientists working out there, that actually putting the cattle back out there onto the land is one of the greatest gifts you can give back to the earth and get proper development, back to nature again. The roots grow much deeper. It's just a perfect ecosystem.

So we have those people that we want to bring into the documentary who can give credible information about those things. I want to get the cow whisperer on who is one of the most famous autistic women on the planet who shows how the abattoirs and all these things. Like many, I've watched the horrific videos and I've gone, "Oh my god! What the hell's going on here?" Now I realize now there are some big questions on whether that's actually deliberately done to get shock value or if it wasn't done deliberately and that's going on, those people need to be stopped!

But when you see Temple Grandin, the cow whisperer - she's on a whole set of videos - actually the degree of welfare that goes on and brings these animals to slaughter for our food. Now it's still going to upset so many people, I know. But the fact is, it's extremely thought out and humane and caring and I forced myself to watch nature, assuming nature kills quickly and as painlessly and as quickly as possible, lions and carnivores. It's quite the opposite I found out. It's horrendous half of the time. Human beings - and remember all our ancestors, I've mentioned the Maori and the aboriginals - all of them hunted and revered the animal's spirit. They celebrated it, gave thanks before they hunted, gave thanks after and recognized this circle of life that most people don't even want to consider, that there is something after and before and therefore there's a cycle. So it put things into a very different perspective. And many more aspects to this documentary.

So we're going to do a promo. We're going to do a crowd funding. We've got people that may help us out individually as private investors that we'll go to. Phil and I - our production company is going to be called Two Naughty Guys because really, we're just two naughty guys and just laugh about things very seriously. [laughter] But we hope to do something that we're proud of, that our children will be proud of and that will really help to bridge a gap and help people and this planet that we call home.

Elliot: Fantastic. When you're closer to sorting that out, it would be great to get you on again and talk about that. And let us know when you get the promo up as well. That would be really good to spread the message and hopefully help you guys out.

Jeremy: I should come on with Phil who I just adore.

Doug: That would be cool.

Jeremy: He's so naughty. If there's a line you shouldn't cross, he jumps over it and keeps running [laughter] and I'm kind of the sensible one. I'm the straight man holding him back. But he is absolutely brilliant. He really is. I adore him because his love for helping others is rarely found. He's genuine and many people will attest to this. He's absolutely brilliant. He'll play it down. He is rightfully respected by those who respect him and he's very simply naughty and probably needs a spanked bottom nearly every day. [laughter] But I love him and he's one of the reasons that I'm back here, to work with him. He's brilliant.

Elliot: Fantastic. Is there anything else? You see clients internationally and I'm guessing you also see clients in the UK now, now that you're back. Where can we find your information and things?

Jeremy: Well hopefully you'll have my website on this podcast. Mostly I send people to the testimonials page to hear the videos and others so they know I'm not just selling myself. Most of my clients in the last couple of years - because I left a physical clinic to try and write this book and start doing some documentaries and things - but most of my clients I do by Zoom and Skype consultations all over the world. But I am seeing people here. I haven't got a physical venue so I have to sort of find somewhere like someone's home to see them and that sort of stuff at this point. And that's okay.

But there is something very important I want to say. There's a great film called The Lives of Others. It's a German film. If you haven't seen it and you are listening to this, I would love you to go and watch this film even though it's subtitled and many people seem to be averse to that. The Lives of Others. It's a particularly special film to me because most of my 30 years doing this I've lived in immense fear as have most of the people who do what I do. It shouldn't be that way. We should be paid very well and supported and be talking to anyone who wants to talk to us - governments, doctors, surgeons, on and on and on. And The Lives of Others is about the time where there was East Germany and West Germany and the Berlin Wall and the secret police and it's about these people that were trying to overthrow at the time and this most senior interrogator was listening to their planning without them knowing. I don't really want to spoil the movie, but the point is this. As he listened, he started to be affected by their compassion, their passion, their compassion, their intent, their goodness I would say, for humanity. And the worst of the interrogators was being affected at the human level.

Now, if you're listening to this and for alternate purposes that are not to benefit humanity, the doctors, the surgeons, the authorities and so on and so forth, we have a real opportunity in this time with the world being able to speak. You cannot stop this knowledge that is spreading and the people's desire to be free, to live a happy, peaceful life. We don't want war. We don't want disease. We want to be prosperous. We know this world is abundant. So I want these people to start to remember their humanity and to start to work with us. Stop fighting us! Start working with us. We can do amazing things that will pay you many more times than what you're being paid in many more ways than just money and that is what I hope for, if any of my work is ever remembered. Hopefully I live a long life but I want to bring humanity together and end all these problems that, as you well know, are created by people whose faces aren't actually seen in the public domains. It's time for a much, much better world. And the truth is, it's so easy to do! It's so easy.

Elliot: Very well said. I really hope it's a possibility. I really do.

Jeremy: Of course it is Elliot!

Elliot: I think that was probably a great way to end the show there Jeremy. I want to thank you again for coming on Jeremy. It's been an absolute pleasure having you on.

Doug: Yeah.

Elliot: And listening to everything that you've been talking about, your long range of experience, but also your insight into things which - I'll be honest - the majority of people don't really talk about and don't factor in and which seem to be so fundamentally important. I think many people can take a leaf from your book. I honestly do, especially others who are working with people who are sick, try our best to really factor these things in. Also for the listeners who are suffering with any health issues, to try and take what Jeremy said into consideration, how you can try and factor these things into your life and hopefully aid your healing in that way.

So again, it was fantastic. We're going to have to get you back on again in the future Jeremy, yeah? You and Phil will come on.

Jeremy: I'll look forward to that.

Elliot: That would be really great.

Jeremy: Thank you.

Elliot: That's the end of the show this week. Thanks to all our listeners. If you like the show or you found it helpful, please share it on social media, Facebook, whatnot. Also you can like and subscribe on our YouTube channel. We haven't got many subscribers but it would be good if we had more.

Doug: It's growing.

Elliot: Yeah it's growing. We're going to be doing lots more interviews in the near future so keep up to date. That's all for today folk's, thanks a lot. See you next week.

Doug: Bye everybody.

Jeremy: Bye everyone, thank you so much.