© Pill Press

This week on SOTT Talk Radio we discussed the recently released book by editors Pierre Lescaudron and Laura
Knight-Jadczyk, Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection.

While official science portrays the crazy weather, more frequent sinkholes, increased meteor fireball activity, and intensifying earthquakes as phenomena that are unrelated, research put together by Pierre and Laura strongly suggests that all this (and more!) is intimately connected and may stem from a common cause.

In times past, people understood that the human mind and states of collective human experience influence cosmic and earthly phenomena. How might today's 'wars and rumors of wars', global 'austerity measures', and the mass protest movements breaking out everywhere play into the climate 'changing'?

Running Time: 01:59:00

Download: MP3

Here's the transcript:

Joe: Hi and welcome to SOTT Talk Radio. I'm Joe Quinn and my co-host this week is Niall Bradley.

Niall: Hello everyone.

Joe: This week we are talking with Pierre Lescaudron and Laura Knight-Jadczyk. They are the co-authors of a new book called Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection. The title of the book is obviously self-explanatory. We hardly even need to have a show at all. It's all just pretty much spelled out there, right guys? No? Anyway, so my first question is: Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection, what does that title even mean? Who would like to field that one?

Pierre: We spent a lot of time trying to find the right title and I think we found a satisfying one, and basically conveys the idea that there is a correlation between Earth changes that we are experiencing now and since the turn of the century: increasing earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, global cooling, beginning of the end of the global warming at least, more chaotic weather, the wind, heavy rainfall, snow falls, drought. So the cosmic origin of the Earth changes, we develop what those cosmic origins are and the human influence as a modulator of those cosmic factors. So you have Earth changes due to cosmic factors modulated by the state of humanity basically. That's why you have this title Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection.

Joe: Right, so people can understand what Earth changes are. For most people, its earthquakes, volcanoes like you just described but then this human-cosmic connection you're saying is that there is potentially a connection between people and these changes. But that's part of the subject of your book in a certain sense, describing what that possible connection might be and what it might entail.

Pierre: Yeah.

Joe: I read your book and a large part of it actually deals with the electric universe theory. Some people might think having read the book, that they may not see the direct connection there because a lot of the book is about the electric universe. It's essentially hard science. And the second part is about this more theorized human-cosmic connection. What in your terms or as you would describe it, is the connection between this electric universe theory and the human cosmic connection?

Pierre: Well, that's a tough one. Actually the electric universe hypothesis was used because it was the missing link to explain the correlation between Earth changes and the hypothesized incoming sun's companion in this cometary swarm, solar discharges and things like that.

Laura: Actually it's a little more basic than that I think where the ideas came from because many years ago when I began really digging heavily into the concepts of Earth changes, I realized that there was material written by ancient peoples that described many things that had happened that actually did not make a whole lot of sense. And back in what 1985, 1986, after studying the whole matter as deeply as I could at the time under the circumstances - we didn't have the internet then of course so I was pretty much reliant on libraries - but I realized that there were descriptions that didn't make any sense unless we were talking about electrical phenomena.

So back then, I kind of formulated and wrote about a very primitive, electric universe theory and what was guiding me was the ancient literature about other times or previous periods when tremendous Earth changes were alleged to have occurred, such as the biblically reported flood of Noah, the exodus in the Hebrew Bible and several other similar bits. Of course back then I was pretty much interested in anything that talked about those things and there was always the literature of Edgar Cayce that came up. He talked about the ancient civilization, the Atlantean civilization that was destroyed by the great flood that became known as the flood of Noah in the bible. And he talked pretty extensively about Earth changes, made predictions and so forth, and a great deal of what he predicted is, I'm not saying that it's really actually happening because it's kind of funny, when you start dealing with esoteric literature, people have such expectations about it that they don't take into account that if you're getting something that is only a probability, from a predictive point of view, it's not going to be totally exact.

So for example he predicted the rise of Atlantis in such and such a year and it was going to be off the Bahamas Islands or off Bimini, which is near the Bahamas, and lo and behold, in that year, some fellow was diving around and discovered what seemed to be a man-made structure, a giant wall and foundations of buildings off the coast of Florida and Bimini. And it was reported 'Oh that makes Edgar Cayce right because Atlantis rose again'. And that was kind of what he was saying was that Atlantis was going to rise again. And he talked about things along that line. Well I've looked at it for a long, long time and I came to the idea that if Atlantis as a core civilization existed, it probably was located in the area of North and South America because all the descriptions more or less matched and there are some of these really ancient cities, or remains of cities that are to be found there. And then of course the 10,500 or 12,000 year ago event that killed off the mega-fauna in North America would kind of match with Plato's Atlantis, Cayce's Atlantis and some of the ruins that were there.

So there were things to look at. There were things to think about. And when you looked at and thought about them and tried to figure out how that could happen, the big thing was the 'how'. And I couldn't figure out anything that could happen that would really make those dramatic changes except something that had to do with electricity. And this was at the time. And also, all of the esoteric predictive type things, and the bible - which we should basically classify with esoteric literature, it's certainly not history - talk about people being changed also. And the only thing I could think of that could change people, and I even wrote about it in this rather primitive version of the electric universe theory, was through electrical activity because human beings carry charge, transmit charge.

So that was my primitive version and all these years went by and I've been continuing to seek, continuing to search, continuing to observe. What I see in the world around us is that we are actually going through, right now, and have been for some years, those Earth changes. They just don't happen necessarily in a single day and in a single night. And believe me if something happens on a single day or in a single night, there's not going to be anybody talking about it because there will be very few people left to talk.

So these things obviously happen in a more progressive way because they get written about, and they happen in ways that are less totally destructive than some people think. The Christians want the end of the world. So many people want the end of the world. "When is the world going to end? When are we going to be raptured up?" Of course they want that because they want all their enemies to suffer and they want all the people who've treated them bad to suffer and they want all the people that they think are ungodly and ruining their planet to suffer. And even new agey types who have bought into the 'Earth changes are coming' fall into that trap.

Joe: That very idea of an end, the end times....

Niall: As a finite point.

Joe: ....of the end of the world at a finite point, seems to me that it's very much comes from a Christian perspective in terms of life and death and the idea of heaven and hell and essentially that you have only one life. Because all these Christians in the world today think they only have one life and they hope that they'll be alive when the end-time comes. But if people believed in reincarnation, the idea of there being a finite end would have much less of an impact on their psyches I think, because if you think that you've lived and died many, many, many, many times, well, if you die by being hit by a bus or being run over by a horse and cart or something, or if you die in some kind of major tsunami or volcanic eruption that's part of an end times thing, does it really matter? From the perspective of just you dying you know?

Niall: It'd be the end for you, yeah.

Laura: Well let's be fair. In ancient times, even before Christianity ever walked on the stage of history or basically was thrust on the stage, which actually happened more around 8th, 9th, 10th centuries than most people actually realize, people didn't believe in reincarnation that widely. There were a few cultures that were teaching it. It's said that the ancient orphics and some people in India, and Thracians and so forth, promulgated this particular doctrine way earlier than Pythagoras. And he got it from them. But for the most part people believed that they were like everything else on the planet, they lived one life, they died and then they went to some place under the ground. If you look at the Homeric writings and you see the description of Odysseus visiting the underworld and you have an idea of what people thought was going on then. They didn't believe in reincarnation, but they of course also did not believe in "the end of the world", although they certainly focused their lives around cataclysmic events. Their religion was based on cataclysmic events and it may even be so that Christianity is based on cataclysmic events.

There's some evidence in the writings of Anatoly Fomenko that the Book of Revelation horoscopically describes something in the fourteenth century, maybe it's earlier, I may not remember the date. Don't hold me to any dates when I'm talking off the cuff here. Yeah, they expected the Earth to go on and it was Judaism that brought in the idea of an actual beginning of time, Adam and Eve, and an end of time. And when Christianity grafted itself onto Judaism it adopted this idea. You've got this absolute end, the world is going to end burned up in the lake of fire, etc., etc. and all the people are going to either Heaven or Hell. But then there are those odd, peculiar little things in Revelations where it talks about after the thousand year reign, then the Devil is going to come up and out and he's going to do some stomping around and doing things again. So it's not entirely clear that that's absolutely the end.

Pierre: Yeah, and this notion of linear time with the beginning and end is quite recent on the historic scale. Until the 17th century there was no clockwork. It was only the creation of clockworks that triggered the creation of time, minutes, hours and years. Even before the 17th century people couldn't say in what year they were born. They could say what day because a day was a marker within the annual cycle. So the way people perceived time was cyclical. You had cycles within cycles, you had seasons, you had days, you had years, and greater cycles.

That's one of the first major differences between the current modern paradigm and the ancient paradigm. Another major difference is that our ancestors had this deep understanding of the human-cosmic connection i.e., what we human beings do has an influence on cosmic events. That was transformed later into God's wrath. Those were the remnants of this very ancient belief. It was more than a belief. It was directly based on cataclysmic events. One example is chroniclers. A chronicler like Michael the Syrian had two columns on each page of his chronicles. On the left he was describing the political events, the abuses, the lies, and the oppression. On the right column he was describing the cosmic events, the calamities. And most of his work was a kind of oracle work in the sense that he was trying to see how these political events triggers these cosmic reactions, which is a fascinating topic and even today some people might try to know why there are volcanic eruptions these days in these places. Maybe one week after this big lie or this mass murdering in the same area.

Joe: So, just to make the distinction here between what we've been talking about and maybe what you're talking about, we've been talking about the religious idea of an end of the world induced by cataclysms etc. But what you're talking about Pierre and what you and Laura focus on in the book is that throughout history there have been repeated kinds of cataclysms that didn't destroy or end the world but that they're induced somehow by human activity or the human organization of society or whatever.

Laura: And of course the Christians took these ideas and they looked at the records, they knew what was going on, and they just put everything off into the future. It was all going to happen again but it was going to be the end of the world to end all end of the worlds.

Joe: A finite event then.

Laura: Yeah, and of course at various periods during the eruption and progression of the pathological condition of the planet known as Christianity, these ideas have resurfaced as being imminent around the year 1000. It was thought that Jesus was going to come right away because 1000 years had passed. And everybody went around and started being good and decent and giving their money away and turning their cattle loose in the pastures and so forth. The day came and then passed, and nothing happened.

So I was reminded of that when we went through the Y2K episode and I kept saying "Nothing is going to happen in the year 2000". Well there was a lot of focus on the year 2012 by the new age types. And I said "Well nothing's going to happen in the year 2012 either". And the fact is that nobody really knows the day and the hour and it depends on how you define the end of the world.

If you look at what's going on right now we are closer to the precipice than we have been in the last 60, 70, or 75 years. World War II was a pretty good time when you could talk about being on the edge of the end of the world. Everything was really hellacious back then. So it's been what 60, 70 years since then and right now we've got similar conditions. But the thing that we have now that we didn't have back at the beginning of World War II or at the beginning of World War I, or in any of the other wars necessarily, is this vast collection of other types of events, of responses from the planet.

And let's face it, planetary bodies take a little time to get things moving. It's kind of like an ocean liner. I don't know how many of you have ever driven a boat, but even if you're driving a small boat, it takes a little time for your change in course to catch up with the boat because you've got this forward momentum, and you make a change, you turn the wheel a little to the left and then you still go forward. You don't turn immediately as you would if you were driving a car with contact between the wheels and the road because you're sliding on that water. Well Earth changes or planetary changes are like that. There's this huge forward momentum and when courses get changed it takes a little while for things to catch up.

Pierre: Yeah, and as you said, Christianity moved away the end of the world in a linear time, in a linear paradigm. At the same time they moved away from God. Before Christianity, God was imminent. He was everywhere, in all of us, in every aspect of creation and destruction. In this paradigm, human beings had a huge responsibility. Somehow everything depends on what you do, every moment. There's an interconnection between every living entity. But Christianity created this new transcendent god, a god that is not imminent, a god that is remote.

Laura: He's outside of the system.

Pierre: He has a beard and he's sitting on a cloud far away from human activity and all of a sudden cosmic reactions or cosmic events, beliefs became the results of the arbitrary decisions of a remote god. And that was the first severance of the human-cosmic connection. And the last nail in the coffin of the human-cosmic connection was the rise of materialism and the clockwork model of the Universe and human beings as mere biochemical machines, no more soul, no more connection, and no more interconnectedness.

Joe: It kind of brings into sharp focus that question that probably most people are familiar with. Maybe they haven't asked it themselves, but a lot of people do ask it. You hear a lot of people asking it: when bad things happen, why does god let this happen? Why does god allow bad things to happen? If he's a good god, why do bad things happen? What we're exploring here is the answer to that which is that it's not really god's responsibility.

Pierre: Maybe not only god let it happen but he triggers it, depending on how we define god. But it seems when you read Shiller's book The Fifth Option, you have this sense that life defies all the usual laws of physics; entropy and decay and entropic death. Life is animated by this deep fundamental principle of creation, more complexity, more interconnectedness...

Laura: More information.

Pierre: ...more intelligence and more information. It seems that one fundamental universal law directing life is going towards this improvement, constant amelioration. And if living entities, for whatever reason, doesn't respect this universal law, there is some kind of reset mechanism, a pruning mechanism where the failed life experiments are removed...

Laura: They're cut off. Yeah.

Pierre: give space to the main design and objective of the universe put in this way...

Laura: Which is life.

Pierre: ...which is life.

Laura: Information, complexity.

Pierre: More information, more complexity, more intelligence, and more notice of this rise.

Laura: And when we have a civilization that has basically turned its back on those principles, it celebrates lies, it embraces lies, it celebrates cruelty, disorder, entropy, destruction, destruction of the planet, destruction of other people, all of those things, all of those behaviors that are against life which is the principle of information and complexity and order, all of those things invite a reaction, a very natural reaction from the cosmic system. They kind of create voids, chaotic voids into which information will run, and that information can only come in when the slate has been cleared and cleaned.

Pierre: Yeah, you mentioned lies and the opposite of lies is truth and in this book we describe some interesting properties of truth. Truth doesn't add up in a linear way: one information plus one information equals two informations. There are some synergies and we give two examples. One of the examples is stereo-vision. Human beings, and some other mammals, if they look through only one eye they see a 2D world. If they look through two eyes a third dimension appears. So there is this unravelling of extra or higher level of information order when true information is added to each other. Another example, which is developed in the book, is the law of arithmetic addition. If people lie, one plus one equals three, two plus two equals five etc., etc., that false information together doesn't lead to any consistency, higher order, higher law of the universe. But if you add up true information, one plus one equals two, two plus two equals four, all of a sudden you can deduce from those pieces of true information a law of higher order, the whole table of arithmetic addition. So that's an interesting property of truth versus lies.

Joe: Were you going to add to that?

Laura: Well I was just going to say this is one of the reasons why searching for the truest understanding you can achieve about any given event or situation is so important because I don't say that it exactly teaches you how to see the unseen or to see behind events or to see the underlying strata of our reality, but it actually does if you're paying attention and if you're trying to extract lessons from doing it. And that's one of the reasons history is so important I think, and it's really kind of heart-breaking to me that so many people say "Oh, I don't like history, it's so boring". Well there is nothing else on the planet that is as fascinating, in my opinion, as history and there's several reasons for that because it not only teaches us what has happened if we can figure it out because, believe me, most of what is written in the historical records is a pack of lies just as has been said.

If you think about people nowadays writing a history for the future, say they're going to write about 9/11 or they're going to write about the assassination of John Kennedy, two very, very important events in our history, and most of the histories that get written by mainstream authors who are following the political line, the victors writing the history, they're going to write and say "Oh, some lone nut came along and offed John Kennedy" and then "There was some 19 Arab terrorists who couldn't fly a plane that did 9/11" and that's the history. And so in the future, in say thousands of years from now, somebody is reading these ancient texts about the history of the 19th and 20th centuries, and they read this, and they think, well, that's what happened but maybe that's not what happened.

Joe: The thing is official history is boring, the way it's written because it's sanitized, in the historical records the official writers of history tend to fabricate and lie and stuff, but...

Laura: And they did back then too.

Joe: They did back then but they leave out any kind of a real human kind of emotion that people can identify with as humans being themselves and that's what makes it interesting and that is the truth about history because compare to the story like you just used there as an example of some lone nut killing JFK. Well, not many people can relate to that, just for no reason, just some crazy, paranoid whatever, just going to kill a president who everybody loved. That doesn't make any sense. But if you tell the true story then you get into all sorts of intrigue, hierarchy of power and fighting between factions and that's all stuff that people can relate to.

Laura: Well that's the same thing about the death of Julius Caesar. These lone nuts, there are actually only something like 22 or 23 actual identified conspirators but later it was alleged that there were 60, or 60 some involved. But you get the story of the assassination of Julius Caesar that he was a tyrant and they pick him out because he wanted to be king and when you really start studying the history you find out that none of that was true, that if there was any event that was more similar to something in the modern day, you could compare with the assassination of Julius Caesar to that of John Kennedy.

Well now of course anybody who has read the literature, who has watched the videos collected into the 'Evidence of Revision' set, you see that there were plenty of people in Texas, rich fascist Texans, including the Bush family who were convinced that John Kennedy was trying to sell the US. Well, I'm not sure that they were convinced, but they were promoting that as their propagandistic line. He was trying to make friends with Russia and he was trying to sell the US down the river, and he was a traitor to his country because he didn't go and bomb the Ruskies and so forth.

Joe: I think they were convinced of that.

Laura: Yeah.

Joe: They convinced themselves of it.

Laura: Yeah, they may have been. So, you can see that there was the same kinds of ideas being bandied around about John Kennedy who was a man for the people as were being bandied about Brutus who was supposedly the hero of the assassination of Julius Caesar. I just read a book actually written by a neo-conservative politician type, I can't remember his name right off hand, where he talks about Cato being the last great Roman citizen and that's kind of how he was known back in those days, because he refused to give into Caesar. He committed suicide rather than accede to being ruled by a tyrant. And Cicero is lionized by our civilization because he exalted over the assassination of Julius Caesar. Well six months later he was writing letters saying "Oh my God! What have we done? Because things are so messed up, I really wish he was back now". So it was the same situation and what they were supporting then, just as what they are supporting now, was an oligarchy where the ones who had the freedom or the ones who were fighting for their freedom were basically the ones who wanted to do in everybody else. They wanted all the wealth to themselves, all the land to themselves. They wanted slaves. They wanted to retain their way of life which was a small elite, one per-cent in power, owning all the goods, everybody else starving, living on the streets, and that's what's happening now.

Pierre: And another major aspect of official history is the promotion of this linear, eventless, uniformitarian world. And one major aspect that has been removed from true history is these cyclical catastrophes although evidence is all over the place. Just one example is the fall of the Roman Empire where you can see a succession of major natural catastrophes. Or you can see previously the fall of the Bronze Age, 23rd century BC which are similar events of great magnitude. In the book if people read it, there is even evidence of a change in the tilt of the planet due to a major cometary event. The planet shifted, the rotation axis shifted about 23 degrees which can explain deluge-like phenomena.

Joe: We might have a call on the line. I'm just going to check. Hi, do we have a caller on the line?

Caller: Yes, yes, it's Charles again.

Joe: Hi Charles

Charles: Thank-You. This subject of Earth changes and the electric universe, along the lines of what you guys are saying, I was kind of musing on this whole aspect of electrical vibration affecting the human consciousness. And looking into the electric universe, what is it called, the plasma theory?

Joe: Yes.

Charles: Yeah. It seems right on the line for me and there was a guy that was writing about these earlier symbols and mythologies in earlier cultures that could have very well been in the skies through electrical fireworks, meaning the cosmos so to speak, had changed according to how the circuit had changed. And that's what they were actually seeing. Kind of what I was musing upon was and I'm sure you're all familiar with the HAARP and the book Angels Don't Play This HAARP and I forget, Dr. Begich?' How do you pronounce his last name? Do you know of the book?

Laura: Yes, I know the book and I know who funded it and I know it was a CIA operation and it's a load of bullshit.

Charles: Ok, well then I won't go into that. But in that book he was talking about how they had a helmet where you didn't have to have actually electrodes in the brain, that you could have like a football helmet that could vibrationally affect the brain with frequency. And so this is kind of along the lines that I'm speaking of that down through these cyclical times as the universe electrical circuit changes, that it could affect the actual consciousness of people on the planet. And there have been these graphs done of sunspots, heights in major events of history correlating. So here is kind of what I was musing on, to get into my point. This whole chemtrail thing and you've probably heard of these people who get into black magic and stuff, of going to natural ley-lines, a lot of these old structures evidently work with maybe electrical energy, maybe other forms, magnetic energy or whatever, and they'd go to these old sites and do weird kinds of rituals and stuff to kind of darken the natural energy.

So, here's the point this whole chemtrail thing is happening worldwide. There are a lot of postulations of what it's for. But then I started thinking well maybe we're coming into a new cycle where people naturally will have an expanded consciousness and they're dampening down this vibration, they're interrupting the electrical signals just like with cell towers and all that. That's kind of where I was taking it, sorry for the long explanation.

Pierre: Yes, well there are many topics you developed in your comments. What to start with? The devil is the detail and there are some assumptions that you mention that might not be true. The one that stuck out for me, the one that currently human beings have expanded consciousness, I'm not sure about that. I think today we've rarely reached a point where the amount of lies believed by human beings has been this high and that's quite antinomic with expanded consciousness, that from my point of view, would be correlated with truth. More truth connecting the dots intelligence, that's expanded consciousness.

This being said about chemtrails, in the book there's a chapter dedicated to chemtrails. There are major evidences that chemtrails are due to condensation basically. Condensation why? Because the upper atmosphere, ten kilometers high or seven miles high where most airliners are cruising, is cooling down. The higher atmosphere is cooling down. That's been vastly documented. It means that since its cooler, there's more condensation and reactors or jets that were not creating condensation before are creating condensation now. And, if you think about it, the first jets appeared before contrails appeared. So it means that jets per se, or at one point maybe during the 60s or 70s, you had a shift in high atmosphere temperature, a cooling down that increased the condensation phenomena.

Charles: So are you saying that chemtrails are just an aspect of, they're not actually spraying chemicals, that they're just that condensation change?

Laura: Let me deal with this. Do you read our website

Charles: Yeah.

Laura: Ok, why don't you just use our little search thing and we've got a several articles in-fact devoted to the topic, even though we've expanded on it a great deal more in this book. But the point that Pierre is trying to make is and I'll give you a little background. Have you read my series called The Wave?

Charles: I have not.

Laura: Ok, in that series, I recount, it's kind of like a 'Laura's adventures in New Age land and Alien Land'. And it's really kind of strange because you know, since I'm married to a physicist, it makes my dabblings just a little more strange. Back in the day and this was what? Back in the early 90s, there was a lot of stuff going on in New Age land. There was talk about photon belts and then along came comet Hale Bopp and then there was this big brouhaha about comet Hale Bopp being followed by some kind of an artificial body that was full of aliens. They were coming to invade. There was all of this stuff about Zecharia Sitchin and the return of the Annunaki. There was this just this enormous distortion of what was actually going on and what ancient things actually said.

Well, so my husband comes along and we're interested in, for example, particularly crop circles, right? So we made our interest in crop circles known fairly early on. And we were contacted by an organization. And I've written about it and even given the names and used some emails as the evidence and some news articles and so forth in my online version of the Wave. My husband at the time was working at the University of Florida in Gainesville. He got an email from this organization that said "We want to fund you to write a book on crop circles. We funded Nick Begich to write Angels don't play this HAARP okay? Same people. And you can see if you look inside the book, he gives his appreciation to the organization in question.

And so my husband said "Well, yeah, interested, I'll meet you. Here I am." And even though the person writing was actually in California they said "Oh no, I can't meet you right now, I'll meet you when you're back in Poland." Okay. So that seemed a little odd. So he goes back to Poland and then the person contacted him again and said "Okay, I'll meet you now." And they agreed to meet in this other city.

So he gets on the train, travels over there. And in The Wave I have described the meeting according to the way he described it to me in an email at the time because he wrote me an email and I even reproduce his letter. He said this person Sue [Branson] shows up and he described what she looked like and how she talked and what she talked of and basically what they wanted us to do was they wanted my husband, as a physicist, to write a book about crop circles. But he was going to write it the way they wanted him to write it. And say what...

Charles: That's weird

Laura: ...they wanted him to say, and plenty of...

Charles: Well, that's strange

Laura: Well isn't it? And plenty of money involved.

Charles: (laughter)

Laura: Ok, it was going set us up for life.

Charles: This is going in a different direction but why would you think that this whole Angels don't play this..., why would the CIA be trying to put that out there? What's the point?

Laura: Okay, this is explained in great detail in this book that I've got right in front of me.

Charles: Okay.

Laura: And we've also talked about it many times for free on the website.

Charles: Okay.

Laura: The point is that they want people to believe that all of this stuff that's going on, on the planet is human-caused. That's even why there is now this huge push for this human-caused global warming thing. Because when things are human-caused, even if it's the CIA doing it, if the military is doing experiments on us and humans are causing it, there's always the idea in the minds of the masses "Well, it's our government that did it. That means they're powerful. That means that if we just get enough petitions going..."

Joe: It can be stopped

Laura: If we can somehow stop this, that we can somehow change this. If this stuff in the atmosphere that's going on is caused by the government all we have to do is expose them, damn it! It's like Edward Snowden. All you have to do is expose them and that will stop what they're doing. That will change what they're doing because they're really in control. What if they are freaking not in control? And it's like the alien thing. That was another big one that really knocked my socks off. You find out that the government is imitating alien abductions and so forth because they don't want people to find out the truth about the fact that they have no control whatsoever over what any kind of alien beings are doing here on this planet. There is no agreement. There is no unification between aliens and humans. They all want to continue to give this illusion of control because once the masses of humanity realize that the planet is under assault and it's under assault from...

Charles: Ok, that's your end point. Your end point is that the aliens are in control is that your end point?

Laura: No, no...

Charles: Or that there are other forces?

Joe: Well in a general sense when you're looking at...

Laura: Yeah.

Joe: ...any of these conspiracies about chemtrails or aliens or anything like that, the argument that's been put out there by the powers-that-be is to do what Laura just said they want to do, which is to convince the population that it's being done by the powers-that-be therefore the people think well we can stop them. We can stop them from spraying chemtrails. We can stop them promoting global warming for example that we can reduce our carbon footprint and stuff. And also, in their benefit so that's to keep people happy and think that at least it's controllable and to the benefit of the powers-that-be, it makes people at the same time feel that the powers-that-be are in control of it. Essentially, it's all under human control in one way. Either it's being controlled by the powers-that-be who are evil, who are doing it for bad reasons, or we can get control of it by stopping them from doing that. But the truth of the matter seems to be that it's beyond anybody's control, it's a cosmic phenomenon.

Charles: Okay.

Joe: And that's much more dangerous and much scarier for everybody.

Laura: Yeah, because think about this. Now the other night we watched this weird movie. What was that thing that Pompeii? We watched a fairly recently made Pompeii movie, did you see that?

Charles: I haven't seen that. I saw the ad.

Laura: Well, it was pretty interesting. If you know enough about the eruption at that time and what was going on. The story was cheesy as hell, so don't watch it for the story. The special effects were great though. But they introduced this movie with a quote from Pliny the Younger. Pliny the Younger's uncle or great uncle, Pliny the Elder was a Naturalist who wrote all these great books. I don't know if you've read Pliny, but he's really worth reading.

Charles: Yeah, I've heard of him talking about 125 - year-old guys that were eating honey and they had this real long life span but anyways.

Laura: Yeah, but way more than that, way more than that. Before you die, please read Pliny's Natural History. It's just, it's a great romp.

Charles: That's the name of the book?

Laura: Yeah, Natural History. Pliny.

Charles: Okay.

Laura: So, anyhow, Pliny was observing the volcanic eruption and he went over to try to give some aid and assistance. He was across the Bay of Naples. And he got killed in the eruption from gasses. Ok, so his nephew who did not get in the boat to go over and try to give help was continuing to observe and he wrote an account of it in a history and also in a letter to one of his friends Tacitus, who you may have also heard of, was a great historian of that time.

And one of the things he said was that the people were crying. You could hear men crying, women crying and the main thing they were crying was "Why have the Gods turned against us?" Now if you read enough ancient history you will discover that this is the reaction that people have, and that's what Joe just mentioned a while ago: why does God let bad things happen to good people? Even the most confirmed atheist, I'm telling you, in the midst of a terrible natural disaster, will have some frisson, some feeling that there is some supernatural power that has turned against humanity and has allowed a terrible thing to happen because it is almost hard wired into the human psyche to understand that what happens in these larger global events, eruptions, earthquakes, tsunamis, bombardments, weather phenomena, tornadoes, hurricanes, that there is something of the Gods in that. Okay?

Charles: Yeah, well you know...

Laura: Now...

Charles: I'm following with you, I don't know that...

Laura: Let me finish.

Charles: ...that I buy this - yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Laura: Let me finish. So, if things were happening everywhere and it were understood by the masses of humanity that the Gods were not happy, Who would they blame?

Charles: Wait, are you saying that if people, if things are out of the control, kind of like the whole again it's like the alien issue or if people knew that aliens had all the power and the US government couldn't do anything, they'd freak out so the government has to keep it silent? If you're not saying that, if you're saying that it's natural cosmic events that we can't control as a society so we have to put all these facades...

Laura: It's the same. Forget about aliens for a minute. Forget they even exist. You don't even need aliens. For example, if all of a sudden all kinds of things started falling hard and fast on the earth, are they going to blame it aliens? Aliens are just the next level up from the government. They're still an identifiable source or cause, not something that's big and awesome and scary. But always and ever when these things have begun to happen, through the ages, traditionally in history, over and over again, whenever it happens the people begin to perceive that God or the gods are not happy, they always blame the ruling Government. And they go after them. "The king must die".

Charles: I don't see that, I'm sorry, I just don't see. I get where you're going with that, that there are these cosmic things that are happening and people blame God and there's social, but to say that the things that are going on politically and technologically by the very rich, concentrated wealth is just that they don't want people to know that things are out of their control, I think there's a lot more self-interesting involved.

Laura: You're, you're mixing apples and oranges here. We're not even talking about that.

Joe: We're not saying everything, we're saying certain things. For example chemtrails is one example. I mean people are looking at...

Charles: You don't believe that chemtrails are put in for a scientific purpose?

Joe: No, that may happen on a small scale. But the idea of people all round the planet looking up and looking at contrails and saying "Oh my god, they're spraying us" is not even true. Are you on the chat room Charles?

Charles: Well have you looked at? I'm sorry, could I interrupt?

Laura: Well, let me give you a.....

Charles: Have you looked at the woman who worked for the airports that was responsible for Hazmat?

Laura: Yes, and she's not credible. She's not credible.

Joe: Thing is, there is an explanation, a scientific explanation for....

Laura: All of those things.

Joe: ....these chemtrails, but it means that there's a change in our atmosphere, it doesn't auger well for the future. It portends bad things for our planet, for our future and...

Charles: What about the barium, the strontium and the aluminium?

Laura: That's a by-product of industrial pollution. Let me tell you something Charles, back in the 50s and 60s...

Charles: Yeah.

Laura: ...they sent into the upper levels of the atmosphere of this planet, atomic bombs and exploded them...

Charles: That's right

Laura: those layers of the atmosphere. Now those atomic bombs were loaded with metallic needles. They put a cloud of metallic needles all around our planet as a reflecting shield, a bounce target shield so you can bounce beams from one place all around the planet if you aim it right. It hits the shield and then it bounces back, okay? They put all of it up there back then, these metallic needles. That is what, that is what HAARP works with.

Charles: Ok, well that's an interesting point that all the barium, and the strontium and the ammonium oxide you're saying are from the nukes they exploded back in the fifties.

Laura: No, I didn't say that.

Charles: Ok, I'm just asking (laughter).

Laura: No, I'm saying the needles are up there, the barium, the strontium, all that kind of stuff, a lot of that is just from ordinary industrial, so called "fall-out". Now, there is also a very good possibility that they do deliberately go up and spray chemicals if it's a low flying spray. And usually they do this when the weather is already on the change and they can get away with it.

Charles: Yeah, because this has been spiking since like 2000 or '95. It's not been since the 50s. This barium and strontium and the acidity of the soil, that's been happening, from what I've heard. Now granted, there's always sources, and there's sources, and you know, I don't research everything but the rabbit-holes I've gone down, that's what I've heard.

Laura: We do.

Charles: Oh, well good, you're on top of it more than I am then.

Pierre: Charles, the low altitude spraying has been documented. It's been conducted by Fort Detrick division, microbiology.

Joe: Fort Detrick yeah.

Pierre: In Cuba for example. Low altitude spraying is an interesting way of damaging or inducing disease or killing people because you can target it. High altitude spraying on the contrary is extremely inaccurate delivery method. It can take up to two years, that's documented, there are papers about that. It can take up to two years for aerosols to drop from 10,000 meter altitude to the ground, knowing that at this altitude you have jet streams blowing at 300 kilometers an hour.

Joe: Two hundred miles an hour, yeah.

Pierre: So, when you drop at this altitude you don't know when it's going to drop...

Joe: Or where.

Pierre: ...or where it's going to hit. And the second element about contrails, condensation trails, is that the first planes that reach this 10,000 meters or 33,000 feet altitudes where the bombers during the Second World War. And at this time the pilots were already complaining about contrails because they were giving away their position. So from the very beginning of high altitude aviation you had this contrail phenomena that increased drastically around the 90s where, surprise, surprise, the stratosphere - and this is well documented as well - the stratosphere started to drop in temperature increasing the condensation phenomena.

Joe: So that increases the contrail appearance and people call it chemtrails. But even look at it from a logical point of view Charles given that data, you know they're supposedly spraying these chemtrails up at 30,000 feet from these commercial airliners, or fake commercial airliners or whatever they say. There are 200 miles-an-hour winds up there. It takes two years to come to the ground. What powers-that-be are going to do that? Are they all wearing gas masks so that in two years' time when it probably hits them they're not going to get - it doesn't really make sense.

Charles: Well, of course it doesn't make sense but neither does exploding nuclear weapons in the upper ionosphere, neither does GM, genetically modified foods. I mean these are people that are...

Joe: Yeah but they don't have to eat GM either. Like in the White House they serve grass-fed beef.

Charles: That's true. So I'm going to read this stuff that you've done because it's an interesting angle. So let me just get this straight. So you're saying that whether it's from nuclear bombs when they explode in the upper ionosphere, whether it's all these space shuttles going up and the crap they're spraying up there - but when I was a kid, I'm 60 years old so - when I was a kid I'd look up you never saw chemtrails last, let alone spread out and mist over the whole sky.

Laura: That's the whole point.

Joe: Things are changing.

Niall: The sky itself has changed.

Laura: The atmosphere has changed and as Pierre just said, the upper...

Charles: Ok, well thank-you folks, I won't interrupt the mode of your conversation any longer. I'll read that on your site.

Joe: And Charles, if you get a chance there's a site called Metabunk, and please do a search on Google for...

Charles: Okay.

Joe: ...Metabunk and "chemtrail plane interior", just in case you've any questions about all those barrels you see in planes and all that kind of stuff.

Charles: Okay.

Joe: Check it out.

Charles: Thanks folks, sorry if this went on too long.

Joe: No problem.

Niall: That's okay, thank-you Charles.

Charles: Bye-bye

Pierre: That's an interesting point that Charles raised. Obviously there's no chemtrails but he bought into this narrative spread by the PTBs and while writing this book there's this recurring pattern we discovered that systematically those earth changes are masqueraded or presented as man-made, i.e., controllable, unrelated and minor. You see the way fireballs are disguised as missile dust. You see the way climate change is disguised as man-made anthropogenic global warming.

Niall: Yeah. Global Warming

Pierre: You see how pipe breaking is presented as the sole cause of sink holes. Systematically those phenomena are downplayed and when you dig, actually that was fascinating while digging into these topics, when you research you see that all these phenomena are very probably caused or are very probably due to the very same core cause.

Niall: Which is?

Laura: Earth changes!

Pierre: Well, earth changes are a phenomena...

Laura: Over all.

Pierre: ...but the cause is very probably the approaching sun's twin and its cometary swarm. And this factor can explain...

Joe: There's a very simple kind of logical process you can follow to explain this to yourself and see that the most likely explanation of what we're saying is to ask yourself do you agree that the powers-that-be make a lot of efforts or generally speaking try to project the idea that they are powerful and in control and are authorities? I think most people would agree that they do that: that they are in authority, know more, have more power and control over the people. Most of the people would agree with that, because it's self-evident. And if you consider then what those kinds of people would do if they came across information that they feared or suspected might leak out to the public that was going to undermine that position of their authority...

Laura: That might really damage them.

Joe: Yes. What would they do? Most likely, if they have a lot of power they would attempt to subvert that truth and twist it around so that it appears that it's actually something that they can control and they can do something about or even in the case of global warming 'We all need to do something about it. You all are turning lights on too much, cows are'...

Laura: Eating too much grass.

Joe: Eating too much grass (laughter).

Niall: And it's been extraordinarily...

Joe: Stop feeding your cows!

Niall: It's extraordinarily successful. Every time...

Joe: Because people want to believe it, that's the thing.

Laura: They want to believe that human beings are in charge.

Pierre: And that they are safe, safety.

Laura: Right, because that's something safe, I mean even if they're evil human beings, it's something familiar.

Joe: It's better than...

Laura: I mean the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know.

Pierre: But look at the irony here. It's very likely that the abuse, the lies spread by the elites tend to increase the cosmic reactions. When meanwhile, most human beings believe that those very same elites are the ones who protect them, while in reality they're the ones who will trigger what will destroy the population you see?

Joe: That's why that knowledge, like Laura was saying about at the beginning of the show, that the suppression of that knowledge of there being this connection between corrupt leadership and a kind of a corrupt society that filters down to ordinary people and everybody is behaving in a very un-human or inhuman kind of way, that does in some way attract some kind of cataclysms or disasters on the planet and that information had to be suppressed because it essentially would act as a block or a preventative measure to the elites acting in a corrupt way, accruing power to themselves and being abusive and all that kind of stuff. The people would effectively stop it if it was generally known. So that knowledge has the potential to lead to a very good and even ideal human society, if only out of fear of being kaboom splatted if you don't get your act together and stop pissing around, stop messing around and act decent, act humane. And they suppress that and ultimately bring it on. The problem here is that we're not talking about imminently, I mean obviously societies can go along for a long time being quite corrupt and nasty and not very humane and nothing happens.

Laura: Two hundred thousand here, two hundred thousand there, a million in Iraq, a tsunami, a hurricane.

Pierre: When you look at historic records, for example the period of time between the fall of the Roman empire, 6th century AD and the black death, 14th century AD, if you remove the blank where there was almost no activity in Europe that lasted about three centuries, it means that in about four centuries civilization in Europe managed to recover, develop and trigger one more cycle of destruction because of probably the crusades, the inquisition and other abuses of this kind. So it gives you an idea of the situation. In only a few centuries, managed to recreate everything and to trigger the high magnitude of destruction.

Joe: The kind of problem I have with it is that where's the motivation for people to do something about it? Say this was 300 years ago and people were aware of it. They would say that "Well, if we don't sort our society out and stop the evil powers-that-be doing their thing and ponerizing society and messing society up and treating people badly, in a few hundred years the planet will suffer some kind of destruction or some kind of cosmic response from that kind of..."

Laura: So we're not talking about a few hundred years now, we're talking about...

Joe: I know that was back then.

Laura: Yeah.

Joe: The motivation is on people now because it's all around, but this is what's happened.

Laura: It's happening now.

Joe: The culmination of all these years of abuses and a ponerized society. But the problem then is it's not too late then to do something about that. And should it not have been done hundreds of years ago? But people hundreds of years ago didn't have the motivation to do it because they...

Laura: They couldn't see it.

Joe: They couldn't see it, maybe it wasn't happening so much in the sense that it wasn't quite as bad as it is today. So it's almost like a catch 22 where it's almost inevitable.

Laura: Well, the only thing is when you study the historical record you discover that there are some people who do see and they pass through those events and they come out on the other side and survive.

Pierre: Yeah, what you said Joe about this catch 22, it's true that after a cycle of destruction, this notion of destruction and human-cosmic connection is present in other minds, in the minds of the ones who survived at least. And then in this cycle during the recovery time usually you have less intensity in the cataclysm and you might, or PTBs might promote this paradigm of even less peaceful environment. And they can sever the human-cosmic connection. And the more they sever it, the more people forget about their responsibility, forget about what might happen. And they go onto this slippery slope and you have destruction again and then the next generation that survives is aware of it. But generation after generation, PTBs re-write history to eliminate their role and to hide the fact that they were responsible or that they didn't manage to fulfil their main responsibility, i.e., protecting the population.

And this point has been clearly defined politically, by the Chinese for example, this notion of a mandate from heaven. It's very extensively documented in China for centuries. For millennia there has been this notion that the leader is here but only for a definite period of time and if he doesn't fulfil his responsibility, i.e., developing a peaceful, harmonious world, the population and the cosmic heavens will remove it. That's why it's a mandate from heaven. It's heaven that gives him the mandate to rule. So if he doesn't rule well, cataclysm will remove him and the population.

Joe: And the population as well. So what you would really need is some kind of ideal society where people are aware of this information or aware of this human-cosmic connection and that they take responsibility. They have a sense of responsibility to future generations to not set the society on a path that will ultimately lead to destruction.

Pierre: Exactly.

Joe: So that's the kind of solution to it but how do you get it?

Laura: Well, let me just give a little example that's just kind of occurred to me sitting here listening. I just mentioned that when these kinds of things happen, some people survive. Sometimes it's a lucky survival and sometimes it's deliberate because somebody knows what's coming, they know from reading the historical record how it's going to act or affect the surroundings and they put themselves into a position or place where they survive more heartily than others.

And take the collapse of Rome for example, the fall of the Roman Empire. At the time that this happened there was a big theological argument that was still raging to some extent, although Christianity had kind of sort of won, but it still was a little iffy. Christianity hadn't won as thoroughly as they like to present in their history. All of these terrible things are happening that were recorded by the chroniclers of the time which incidentally are very similar to the things that are happening today in both scope and description. And they were blaming "Okay, it's because we have turned away from the old gods and this new Christian God. The gods are angry because y'all have let Christianity in the door." On the other side the Christians were saying "Oh no, the old gods are no good and all of this is happening because the real god is just testing all of us to see if we can hold on and be true". Right?

So they took this idea and started forming enclaves in various places for example in Italy and areas around the Mediterranean. And they formed these enclaves that later came to be monasteries. And they took their books, and they took some slaves there and they were basically wealthy people who turned their estates into enclaves of survival. Okay, so they survived all of this so they came out on top, interestingly. And Christianity, because they were on top and they were the ones who could read and write and they were the ones who were the leaders and I'm greatly simplifying this, so Christianity came to be the dominating political idea.

Of course much of what had happened had to be covered up or had to be eliminated from the record because they didn't want this argument to go on, that the reason all of this happened was because of this new Christian god. So everything was rewritten and re-interpreted. And a lot of that happened to the ancient literature.

So Christianity came along and presented this idea that there was this one great truth, one god etc., and this acted on a lot of people at the time. And they took it to heart and they grew up and they said "Well if truth is the main thing that matters let me find out the truth". And this, oddly enough, led to the scientific revolution because once they had the idea that there was truth and truth could be known in the world and so forth, they began searching for it and then they applied this truth test to their own religion and determined that it didn't pass the test. So then there was the reformation and then there was the counter-reformation and the scientific revolution.

So in a way Christianity, which was kind of grafted onto Judaism, one God, one truth, the truth was the parent of the scientific revolution. That was coming along and then as Pierre points out, somewhere around the same time that this was happening, this renaissance, there was the Black Death. And the Black Death clearly was accompanied by quite a bit of cometary and destructive activity, destruction on a massive level. And this is something that's covered very well by Mike Bailey in his book, New Light on the Black Death.

So, at the end of all of that, the ones who kind of survived or the ones that came out on top were the scientific types, the materialist types. So now we've got a cycle where science has been in the driver's seat. And in a funny sort of way, if you looked at it as a cosmic outsider, it would be almost as though different tests were being run on the organism of the planet. Which kinds of ideas or ideology are going to work to make you people figure out that you need to stop acting this way?

So they tried the old pagan religions. That didn't work. Then Christianity got its fair chance. That didn't work, that was a big mess. Now okay let's bring out science, science which is searching for the truth. But then science went completely awry into this absolute materialism. Science is now in the service of the same wealthy elite that the church fell into service to, when they came out on top. Now the scientists just build bigger and better bombs and bigger and better computers so they can track more and more people and they've got drones so they can kill them at a distance and so forth. And science has done a bigger and badder job of it than the church ever did.

Pierre: There are two ironies here. Usually we think that science and religion work in opposition. And when you think about it, you realize that Christianity, by postulating this transcendent remote god, paved the way for modern science. Because if there is a transcendent remote god, at the same time it was posited that human beings on the planet are ruled by natural laws. And that was the main function of science for decades.

Laura: To find out...

Pierre: To figure out...

Laura: The natural laws.

Pierre: ...those natural laws. And science ended up by spreading this materialistic vision of the world that was killing god basically. There's no more god. We are gods. There are no more rules, there's no more good, and there's no more bad. But ironically science kept on progressing and developing, or regressing, whatever. And it's science through quantum physics that reinstituted partly, the seeds of the human-cosmic connection. Christianity has removed it or severed it. Materialist science has killed it, removed it. But one aspect of science, quantum physics in particular, suggested it again by proposing the role of the observer. And if you pull the thread, the role of the observer, is what? Individual consciousness of the observer, human beings for example, living entities....

Joe: Affecting the observed.

Laura: And when you pull that thread...

Pierre: ...that has an influence on the material event.

Laura: When you pull that thread, you end up at non-material information that has to be prior to the existence of matter. So god has been reborn so to speak. It's just not really the bearded guy sitting in the clouds in the sky. It's basically a cosmic mind.

Pierre: Okay, and now the PTBs are trying to prevent people from pulling this thread. So the current narrative is oh yeah, okay, but they're showing this gap, the role of the observer only applied to quantum uncertainty and microscopic level. Electron levels okay? So it's only those small particles that are affected and sometimes they go left, they go right, depending on if you observe or not. But it doesn't change anything because of the de-coherence principle. It doesn't apply to macro levels, comets or whatever.

But now if you start to search into what is called psychokinesis or telekinesis, you discover hundreds of scientific papers showing that human beings do have an influence on random events, like throwing dice. I was very surprised to discover that there were so many very robust studies about these topics. So human beings do have an influence on macro events, groups of human beings do have an even greater influence, but the influence, and that's where the twist of the new age is, the influence is not necessarily correlated to what you wish.

Joe: But you know the problem there is that, as you say in your book and we should probably get into that because it gets into the human-cosmic connection and the evidence for it, when you say that the role of the observer, quantum mechanics and stuff, and the role of the observer they say only applies at the micro level, at the sub-atomic level and particles and stuff. There's an obvious analogy you could draw there that wind will blow a small piece of paper or piece of dust, a light breeze, but obviously you're not going to say well when can we knock down or only move a small piece of paper as a result of that because obviously a hurricane or a much stronger wind can blow down a house or affect much greater. So they don't seem to have expanded out using that basic analogy to say well if it can happen at the micro level then maybe, because we're dealing with some kind of energy or energy exchange, expand that out to not just one human, but to all humans together. And what effect they all might have. Maybe they all together may be able to effect changes or influences on a macro scale. But obviously the problem is you can't test everybody on the planet, in a direct way, for what they may be able to influence on the planet.

Pierre: Well, yeah, it's interesting because the basics of quantum physics are that one single observer had an influence on a particle level "random events". And what you say that when it goes beyond that and can apply to macro events, big events, and influenced not just by one single individual but by a whole population.

Joe: I.e., much stronger, a much stronger power source which could be a combination of people.

Pierre: Yeah, you're right and that has been tested. History has been testing repeatedly how lies and suffering on a world scale triggers cosmic reactions.

Joe: That's the current theory.

Pierre: That you cannot really test it in a lab. But what has been tested is the influence of a group population in concert, or even groups all over the world during moving events televised all over the world, like the World Cups or the...

Laura: The death of Diana.

Pierre: Or the death of Lady Diana.

Joe: Or 9/11.

Pierre: And on 9/11, true. And they measured strong deviation in random event generators located all over the planet. So human beings obviously when they vibrate in unison, on the same emotional tune or an intellectual tune...

Niall: They put out a signal.

Pierre: ...they send a signal that affects what is considered as random and which suddenly is not random anymore. But again it's not necessarily what you think or what you want. Apparently, emotions and beliefs...

Joe: Unconscious beliefs, unconscious emotions.

Pierre: Exactly, exactly.

Joe: And that's mirrored in people's lives because anybody who's listening to this show and anybody in the world, if you give them examples of how they, on many occasions in their lives they can think for themselves, where they didn't get what they intended. They got the opposite of what they intended. And there's an argument there that, okay well what you think you want is not actually the driving force that's actually going on in you. It's at a more subconscious level of an emotional need or whatever that is, creating your reality for you. There are so many examples or at least analogies that you can give that tend to support this theory that it's real but again the problem is, in talking about all of the people on the planet having an effect or having some kind of an attractor effect, it's very difficult to find. How are you going to measure that?

Laura: Well you see this is why lies are being promulgated so widely and why there is a different lie program for everybody who's preferences, or likes or dislikes and why there is so much attention being given to dividing people. There's men versus women, there's blacks versus whites, there's gay versus straight, there's pro-life versus...

Joe: Pro-choice.

Laura: And then there's Russians versus Americans, there's Poles versus Russians, there's Serbians versus Croats.

Joe: Irish versus English

Laura: The Irish versus the English

Joe: Well hang on a minute, that's justified (laughter).

Laura: There's just this whole thing and it keeps people separated and one of the biggest things that keeps people separated, and it's consciously employed in France, is language. Where they make the speaking of the language, the 'language that be' so to speak in any given country, kind of like a mandate. You have to speak it and everything has to be in that language and you never shall allow anything else to come in. For example in France, radio stations have to play a majority of French songs even though people in France very much like English and US rock and roll. But they're not allowed to play it as often as they would like because it's against the law. And everybody in France must speak French. And they have to be incorporated into the French system. And most people in French are programmed to think that French is the only language worth speaking and so few people in France speak English and they know so little about what's going on in the rest of the world that it's absolutely astonishing. Even in the academic community. It's really astonishing.

And the same I think is true in many other countries. Let's face it, right at this point in time English is the language of academics. It may change to Chinese or Russian any day now, but for the moment it's been, and now for like the last 50 or 100 years it's been English. Long before that it was French. The French had their turn and it was known then as the lingua Franca. And now (laughter), the lingua Franca is English. So they keep people divided by language. We've found many books that have not been translated from other languages into English, many books that are not translated from English into other languages. So people around the globe do not have an even level of knowledge. They do not have equal opportunities to knowledge that is available today because of this divisive system of keeping people corralled into their languages, into their countries. It keeps them divided.

We're talking about a planetary system here. We're not talking about just one country versus another country. We're talking about the whole planet here that's undergoing some real convulsions and it's probably going to get a lot worse. And do I think that anything will change? No, because there are people that are so convinced because they really like to believe that the powers-that-be are the powers-that-be and they don't want to give up the idea that they're causing the chemtrails. They don't want to give up the idea that they're in cahoots with the aliens. They don't want to give up the idea that there's some kind of breakaway civilization that really has our best interests at heart. And they're just waiting for the right moment to come out and institute a new world order, to make everything else all nice and handy for us.

Joe: Do you think that a lot of people would be happy with the truth of the situation as we're suggesting, which is that they're not in control and that effectively responsibility is placed back on ordinary people? Do you think people would be ok with that?

Joe: ...

Laura: No they don't want it!

Joe: No.

Laura: They don't want the responsibility. They want Big Brother. They want a parent. They want somebody to take responsibility. They want somebody to blame.

Joe: But do you think there's an argument that they only want that in the absence of an alternative because they're not told about the alternative?

Laura: Yeah, if they were to learn from their mother's knee, like when they're small children, if they were to learn the truth they would be able to make a different choice. But most people are so inculcated already into their belief system and it can't be changed without extreme pain.

Joe: It hurts their brain.

Laura: It hurts their brain yes, because there are studies that show that when a person tries to entertain an idea that goes against what they will to believe, what they have been conditioned to believe by their political, social or religious background, that it actually - I mean they've done brain scans - it actually releases neurochemicals in the brain that cause pain. The same kind of chemicals that you get if you were chained up to the wall and you were being tortured by being poked with a hot iron or whatever, having bamboo things driven into your fingernails or whatever.

Joe: I had a person actually tell me that directly, recently, that all of the stuff I was saying about how the world really works, specifically on the political level, in Russia and all that kind of stuff, Ukraine. He told me that he doesn't like to think about that. He doesn't deny that it may be true but he doesn't like to go there or think about it or accept it because it hurts his brain. And he used those words: "It hurts my brain". So that was an amazing confirmation for me of that study that you just cited.

Laura: It's true.

Pierre: We mentioned beliefs, about the power of beliefs. In previous shows we talked about this Jahn and Dunne research conducted in Princeton University of 200,000 to 500,000 trials where individuals tried to influence random events. And during those studies they discovered that some individuals had an influence but their influence was opposite to their intent. That was puzzling so one other researcher from Princeton Helmut Schmidt extracted those individuals who had a negative influence. And he conducted some experiments with them and again their influence was opposite to their desire, to their intent. So what he did, the next step, he put them in a very negative environment, small creepy rooms, he was reinforcing the negative atmosphere: "You're going to fail, it won't work". And as a result their effect on random events was even more opposite to what they wanted. Which suggests strongly that actually the main driver is not what you want i.e., the new age "what you believe", not necessarily on a...

Laura: Conscious level.

Pierre: ...conscious level. But what these people have in common is this low level of self-confidence. What they believe deeply in the core of their being is that they would fail. If they wanted white, they would get black. And actually, they are right. They wanted white and they got black.

Laura: So in a funny sort of way how a person is treated as a child, whether or not they achieve levels of self-confidence, whether they are nurtured, whether they believe in themselves, has a lot to do with the effects that they have on their reality because, like you just said, if they don't have any confidence in themselves, if their core belief is "I never get what I want, nobody loves me, nobody cares about me", then that's the effect they will have even if they're engaged in some PK experience. Now, magnify that by the billions of people on this planet who have been abused, who are being abused in war like situations; who are going hungry; who are losing their parents to starvation, disease, disaster; to the young kids in the US who are being exposed to that hystericized political system that's going on there; to the way children are being raised in all the different places around the world; and you have an entire planet that may pray daily for peace but because they are convinced that they don't deserve what they ask for, are creating war.

Pierre: Yeah, you mention two things. Previously you mentioned division and actually one of the few collective events where there is no deviation, no PK effect is during a soccer game or a football game. And the hypothesized explanation is that you have half that are cheering for team A and the other half cheering for team B and it neutralizes. So it's a kind of experimental proof of what you said previously if there's a division between people. They pull to the left and others pull to the right and the net effect is zero.

And now you mention faith and that's interesting as well because there have been surveys conducted on individuals depending on their religious backgrounds. One of the main modulators of PK efficiency is faith, religious faith, believing in god and the Gospel but somehow believing in something higher. Believing may be one of the roots of the PK phenomena, of the human-cosmic connection, another belief by the way.

Joe: It's all a bit depressing. It's sad in a certain way or in every way because you've talked about authoritarian followers and people who are authoritarians and there are a lot of them. Maybe it's the majority of the population and they need an authority, they look to an authority, they want an authority, and that they wouldn't go for the other alternative of responsibility. But the kind of alternative or the more objective, more truthful view of the situation that we're kind of positing doesn't exclude an authority.

Laura: Yeah.

Joe: There is an authority that people could look to and could pay homage to etc., etc.

Laura: But people...

Joe: It could fulfill that need in people. So an ideal world is possible is what I'm saying. It's not condemned simply by degeneration.

Laura: It's possible theoretically but it would only happen if an entire generation of children could be raised with nurturance and love and understanding and full teaching.

Joe: Knowledge.

Laura: Knowledge of what really is and so forth, and then the old generation was allowed to die off and this new generation would come forward and be the hope of the world. Because people are so damaged, they're so wounded that the ones who can overcome that damage, that wounding are the ones who can work on themselves so to speak, who can tolerate that brain pain, past it and reach the truth and discipline themselves to look at it fully in the face are few and far between. One in ten thousand or one in a million or as far as we can see it's even less than that. It's a vanishingly small number.

Joe: I'm going to check to see if we have a caller here on the line. Hi, do we have a caller on the line?

Caller: Yes you do.

Joe: Hi, what's your name and where you calling from?

Caller: Hi, I'm Laurie, I'm calling from Idaho. I've talked to you guys a couple of times.

Joe: Welcome back.

Laurie: I just wanted to tell you that it makes my brain hurt to watch all these other people absolutely refuse to see the truth about anything.

Laura: True.

Laurie: It's the opposite way. Yes, it is

Laura: There are some people that are born that way.

Laurie: It's painful to learn that everything you thought you knew was a lie but at the same time it's important. And I have a really hard time with people absolutely refusing to see anything differently other than the way they already look at it. It's really difficult to walk in the world and see what's going on and not be able to say anything because everybody will look at you like you're out of your mind or you need medication.

Joe: Yeah, it's very frustrating because people are attached to this information, what they believe. And the fact of the matter is that it was just given to them when they were kind of clean slates, when they were children. It should be nothing to them to change it for something else but for some reason the way human beings are made, psychologically and even anatomically, that there's this pain factor changing over from beliefs you know. And obviously it's even worse when those beliefs are founded in some kind of trauma that is burned into their brain or burned into the psyche you know.

Laurie: Yeah, like the information that you guys put on the website about how some people are just hard wired to be...

Joe: Yeah.

Laurie: ...authoritarian followers. It's a lot of good information out there but it's so hard to have any kind of hope for the world...

Joe: Yeah.

Laurie: ...when you read that kind of stuff and see that it's an insurmountable obstacle to anything good happening on this planet in my point of view.

Joe: Yeah, and it's made worse by the fact that there could be a nature aspect to it as well. That it's not just that humans are clean slates when they're born, but that some people who are born have a strong proclivity for certain beliefs about the world and they're not good for other people. You know what I mean. I'm obviously referring to psychopaths.

Laurie: Yeah, the psychopaths.

Joe: That's the real wildcard because if it was just ordinary human beings there's a chance that people could be changed and healed and cured and become more normal, natural humans. But if you've got this kind of element of where there are people essentially not normal, natural humans and they have a very destructive principle as part of their being.

Laurie: And then there's the psychopathy and authoritarian follower hardwiring issue, kind of like fit together like pieces of a puzzle.

Joe: Absolutely, like a hand in a glove.

Laurie: Yeah, it just makes it hard to hope for anything.

Laura: But I think you bring up an interesting point here. Those people for whom the lies and the reality are actually painful. And I think that they are kind of unique. I said they're small in number. There are not a lot of them but it seems that they grow up and they are told what to think or believe but their powers of observation are equivalent or in some sense balanced against what goes into their brain. They notice things: wait a minute, you said this but I noticed that. And they begin to compare things. And once again this comes back to that kind of person I mentioned a while ago that brought about the scientific revolution and Bob Altemeyer talks about it in his book Amazing Conversions, the kinds of people in whom the idea that truth is a goal becomes basically their beliefs and that it is attainable. And then they begin to look for it and they begin to apply the methods of observation and rationality to discover what the truth is. And usually they end up having to give up their religion. They usually end up having to give up their politics. They have to give up their ideas that their families are wonderful and perfect and all of these different things that we learn in our world. But the thing is that everyone that he talked to, interviewed in this book, they all said without exception it was long and painful but it was worth it. And I find that fascinating.

Laurie: I'd have to agree with that as far as my own journey goes anyway. What if you add - well I know I have a very strong, not sense of empathy, I'm just empathic - when I go about in my world and I look at people and I hear what they say, I get a lot of what they're feeling from them too. And I think that's kind of what makes people as well.

Laura: Yeah.

Pierre: Yeah, and when I'm listening to you Laurie, what makes me sad in this situation is that obviously you have maybe 5% of psychopaths that won't change. They are wired this way. You might have a few per cent at the opposite side of the spectrum, let's call them 'Truth Seekers', and the problem that the vast majority in between have been subjugated, that's the definition of ponerization by the way, have been subjugated to those twisted ideas, lies and suffering induced by psychopaths. And if most of those authoritarian followers were subjected to a more positive influence it would be totally different.

Laurie: Yeah, I agree and it's sad and pathetic.

Joe: Well, hopefully it won't last too long.

Pierre: Ha ha, probably not.

Joe: Something will change some way, somehow along the way.

Laurie: Yeah, well I just hope that if we have to have a radical change that the next phase gets it more right if you know what I mean?

Laura: Only if those who see it now understand what to do and how to do it because, like I said, when the Roman Empire went down there were a bunch of people who saw what was going on and they made preparations to survive, they ended up becoming the imposers of Christianity. Well, they don't have to be the only ones who survive. Other people can learn these lessons too if they're bright enough. And that's what we spend all of our time working to insure, that somebody else who has a clue can get through this and come out on the other side and say "Listen, this is what happened and this is what we all need to remember. Let's do it different this time."

Laurie: See, now that makes me feel a little better (laughter).

Joe: There you go.

Laurie: Thank you.

Joe: All right Laurie.

Laura: You're welcome.

Laurie: Ok, thank you. You guys have a great day and thanks for the show.

Joe: You too.

Niall: You're welcome, bye, bye.

Laura: Bye, bye.

Laurie: Bye.

Joe: So, we've touched a little bit on the evidence for the human-cosmic connection. Is there anything more explicit on the kind of experiments that were done? We just mentioned it, but in the last part of your book it goes into some detail on the actual experiments that were done and the different types of experiments that suggest or were suggestive of there being some kind...

Laura: I'd say for that sort of thing they have to really read the book because it's laid out step by step by step.

Joe: Yeah well okay. I just wanted some juicy details.

Laura: Well I want to give you one juicy detail.

Joe: Okay, I knew there was a juicy detail.

Laura: Yeah, there's a juicy detail but it's not about that. It's about the fall of Rome, okay? If anybody has their book already turn to page 250. If you don't already have the book, mark it down page 250 and get the book so you can look at page 250. And what you're going to see there are two archaeological graphs, and these graphs come from an archaeological historian or historical archaeologist or whatever. But anyhow, the one on the left shows all of the settlements north of the city of Rome around 100 AD. That's around a hundred years after the alleged birth of Christ okay? But it's two hundred years after the birth of Julius Caesar which is far more important.

But in any event you see this huge clustering of spots and dots and there's a little legend that tells you that these are towns, these are fortified farms, these are villas, these are whatever they are. And there's just a bunch of them. And that's dated to 100 AD. Okay, then you look at the depiction on the right, the graphic image, which shows three hundred years of archaeology in that same exact area. You can tell the area by the location of Rome and by the position of the roads and everything. Three hundred years it covers and there's like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15 settlements over 300 years in that same region that was covered by hundreds and hundreds of settlements on the left. Now, that's what happened when Rome collapsed.

Pierre: Yeah.

Laura: The population disappeared.

Pierre: And basically the civilization was sent back to the Stone Age and it took roughly one thousand years to go back to the level of civilization that was the one at the end of the Roman Empire so the Renaissance basically. It took all this time to reach the level of house building, architecture, metal industry, and pottery is listed in the book, building structures, farming, warfare techniques and written documents.

Laura: Yeah between the...

Pierre: One thousand years.

Laura: Yeah, between the Earth changes that were going on at the time that were vividly chronicled by several chroniclers who historians nowadays say "oh they were just talking hyperbolically" or "they were just getting religious about it". But they were describing what freaking was happening! And there was probably, based on what you can figure out from the statistics you get from looking at these maps, something like ultimately a 90% mortality rate.

Pierre: In Europe and the Mediterranean basin, the proof that those chroniclers were not fantasizing or exaggerating that, in some cases, there were several chroniclers in different locations who independently made similar reports of the same cosmic events. It showed that they made very accurate and objective reports in general.

And now to answer Joe's question about some more juicy things or some more data about the human-cosmic connection, the question that could be raised is: how things will work if you are the majority of the population that has those beliefs we described; that believe those lies that are spread by the media and the PTBs? And on the other side you have a small group of individuals that are trying to be truth resonant. Can there be a splitting of the Universe, a splitting of reality?

Today, obviously that is not the case. Today, you have people who believe lies, you have people who resonate more with truth. Nonetheless, although their interpretation is different, they live on the same planet and with the same events, interpreted differently only. However you have some theorists, amongst whom is Hugh Everett who coined the theory of the multiverse. Now that's why it becomes interesting about this splitting of realities.

Pierre: And according to this multiverse theory every time you make a decision in your life, for example, I marry, I don't marry, the two realities co-exist in two separate worlds. And those decisions you make are based on the information you hold. If you believe this lady is great and should be your wife, you marry her. If the information you hold or believe about this lady is too negative, you won't marry. But according to Everett, the married solution and the non-married solution co-exist and that's how maybe there is a connection between the information you hold, truth versus lies, and the reality in which you live and a possible branching out of the Universe because in this sense the information based decisions made by people who resonate with lies would be totally, drastically different from the decisions made by people who resonate or try to resonate with truth.

Laura: Taking that a little further, if there were a sufficient number of people who resonated together, truth, making decisions for truth even if they're not all exactly in the same place, even though it's much easier to resonate when you are local to one another, but if they were scattered around the entire planet and they were devoted to gaining and gathering the truth and making decisions in their lives based on truth, step by step, one decision today, another decision tomorrow, little by little, they would strengthen their truth frequency resonance vibration and then at a certain point in time they might achieve some sort of critical mass where they would actually take a step or make a decision that splits their reality completely from the planetary reality and they would end up on a different earth with a different future.

Pierre: And here actually we're not only talking about a splitting reality, two different realities. We're talking about the possibility of access to a higher reality which is described for example in the parable of the blind man and the elephant. Basically you have individuals, you probably know this parable. You have individuals who are blindfolded and who touch an elephant. But nobody knows it's an elephant. One touches the trunk and the other one touches the leg. So the information they hold on an individual level is low level information; a leg, a tooth, an eye, whatever. But when they network and share in an objective way the objective information they hold individually, that can give birth to a reality of a higher level; a 3D elephant.

Laura: They have knowledge.

Pierre: They have the possibility, knowledge and access to a concept of a higher reality, not parts but the whole thing that transcends the parts. And that's why there is this possibility of a branching out Universe that co-exists with access to a higher reality.

Niall: And there's such a situation, the destruction that's brought on by a human-cosmic connection that's attracted negatively, isn't necessarily going to be on this other planet.

Pierre: It might mitigate.

Laura: It might mitigate, yeah. I don't think I'd focus on that too much. We've done some videos on this where we talk about how it might manifest but the important thing is I think, going back to the elephant and the blind men, even if these blind men are able to share their knowledge with one another and come to a full concept of what an elephant is, it's not going to change them being blind at the moment. There would have to be some kind of other input that might act on them genetically perhaps, that would open up their ability to see or, at the very least, they would be able to understand what this elephant is and they'd say okay, let's all join hands and let's find our way out of here before this elephant stomps on us or we get stepped on because it could be fairly damaging.

So there are two or three ways to look at the analogy. But for us the most interesting is that when the electrical activity on this planet changes it very well may change many things within people who are prepared to run, say for example, a higher current in their bodies. And people have all kinds of DNA going on in their bodies that they don't know what it is, what it's there for and it's been proven that different diets can change your DNA. It doesn't actually change your DNA. What it does is it either up regulates or down regulates, that is it either turns it on or turns it off.

So we don't know what can or can't happen cosmically speaking that can turn DNA on or off but, once again, there are historical records that demonstrate some of these things can happen. And there's even a more recent bit of evidence that comes from the Tunguska meteor explosion, that it actively caused DNA changes or up regulation or down regulation in not just plants and animals, flora and fauna in the region, but also in human beings. So there's just so many possibilities and really I don't think that it's proper to look at such times as this as horrible and depressing. You have to keep yourself looking forward into the future to see that there are some interesting times ahead of us. And keep trying to inform as many people around you as possible. We sometimes get depressed because we get people, they can't let go, their brain hurts, it's just too painful and so on and so forth. But if they could only understand it really is liberating and it really is an interesting time to be alive. It's like Charles Dickens said: "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times."

Pierre: Yes, it's both.

Laura: And that's kind of what we're in right now; the best of times in many respects and also the worst of times in many respects. And I guess it depends on what's deep inside you, how you see it ultimately and whether or not that seeing and that belief inside you contributes to a positive outcome or a negative outcome. If you just believe that you're a failure, that nothing you want or think should happen is ever going to happen, then obviously it's going to make your brain hurt to think about it, because that's just the way it is. But if deep inside you have this self-esteem, and even if your life has been brutal to you since you were born, you still keep getting back up and keep getting back up and keep getting back up, people like that who keep getting back up and recreating themselves no matter what the world does to them, they have some kind of self-esteem. Those are the people of the future.

Pierre: Actually we scratch our heads quite a lot to try to find an example in nature of this threshold that was mentioned previously, this kind of phase transition or accessing a higher level of reality or a different level of reality. And the best analogy we found is superconductors. So we go back to electrons and to particle level. Let me describe it quickly. It's rather simple. Electrons normally at ambient temperature are very chaotic. They lose a lot of energy, they bump into each other, there's no order, and no coordination. That's electron's normal state. When you reduce the temperature enough and here you have to keep in mind that reducing temperature is the same as adding information, and the whys are described in the book we're talking about.

So when you reduce temperature i.e., when you increase the level of information, true information, a threshold is reached and all of a sudden the electrons behave totally differently. They start to work in pairs. They start to move in a homogenous, fluid, harmonious way. There's no more shock, there's no more loss of energy, its perpetual motion. They start to defy the most fundamental laws of physics. It's perpetual motion. And today in labs you have magnets or loops, electric currents in a super-conductive state that goes on and on and on infinitely. There's no battery necessary. And this is almost some kind of magic.

Laura: This can happen to human beings if they work, work for it, they work together, if they network together, if they share, if they work on overcoming the pain in the brain at facing truth and reality, collecting truth, really dealing with what is, being rational, being objective. At what point will the one additional person who is able to do that added to the system, increase the level of knowledge contained by the entire system, not any one individual, but by the entire system and turn this group of people into basically kind of a super conducting element around the planet?

Joe: We have a question here from a listener: "I'd like to ask if Laura and crew are aware of any signs or feelings that indicate an individual frequency vibration is rising?"

Laura: Depends on what you mean by frequency vibration is rising. If you mean that people are getting better and smarter and whatever, globally speaking I would have to say no. But if you're referring specifically to the group of people we work with, the network that we are connected to, I would say yeah, it's definitely changing. We've got people all over the planet in our network. We've got researchers. We've got members. We've got people who discuss on our forum and they are definitely showing signs of some significant changes and activation of things that have been latent for a long time. So, in this small group yes, but globally, no.

Joe: Okay, I think we'll leave it there for this week folks. We hope you enjoyed the show. The book we've been talking about is the book by Pierre and Laura Earth Changes and the Human-Cosmic Connection. You can get it on all Amazon websites. If you want a signed copy you have to go to Pilule Rouge which is and you pay with PayPal and you can get a signed copy by letting us know that you want a signed copy. Otherwise it's available on Amazon or on the Rabbit Hole USA. Just look up or whatever. So, thanks Pierre and Laura for being on the show and for enlightening all of our listeners and raising their vibrations.

Laura: I wish.

Joe: We will be back next week with another fascinating, scintillating show. It'll be announced in the usual places. Until then, thanks to our callers, thanks to our chatters and thanks to everybody.

Niall: Bye, bye.

Pierre: Have a nice one.

Laura: Goodnight.