The Health and Wellness show on the SOTT Radio Network covers topics of health, diet, science, homeopathy, wellness culture, and more. Tune in weekly!

Our special guest is Larry Bowers, a retired electrical engineer with 30 years experience in the field. We'll be discussing man-made vs natural EMF, clean and dirty power, cell phones, cell towers, wi-fi, microwaves and their effects on human and animal health. Included is a discussion on how to assess your environment to reduce your exposure to EMF.

Running Time: 01:44:00

Download: MP3

Here's the transcript of the show:

Jonathan: Welcome everybody. Today is April 20th 2015. My name is Jonathan. I'll be your host for today. Joining me in our virtual studio from all across the planet we have Doug, Tiffany, Erica and Gaby and our special guest today Larry.

So just to start off and tell you what we're going to talk about today, over the past we've spoken quite extensively about diet, different kinds of toxic exposure, psychological health, many aspects of health and wellness. Today we're naturally leading into speaking about another important area of health which is EMF exposure. As we were talking before the show, there were four pillars of optimal health that include diet, psychological health, toxic exposure and EMF. All four of those pillars are necessary for optimum health for managing your exposure and how you deal with those different pillars, can all act as stressors to your system and they can cross-interact with each other and the effects can be compounded.

So if you have a poor diet and you're exposed to a lot of EMF, those effects can compound each other. They can cause metabolic stress, damage to the cell, damage to the DNA and which, when your body is out of balance, can result in poor psychological health as well. It can make it hard to think clearly and thus make it through your day-to-day.

So that's what our topic for today is EMF exposure and our guest is Larry Bowers. Just a quick bio; Larry graduated BSEE 1978 in Electrical Engineering from Florida Institute of Technology. He worked for Harris Torth E-Systems in the ECI Division and Lockheed Martin Denver Aerospace. His interests and work experience include electromagnetic field theory, EM scattering and propagation, antennae design and development, adaptive antennae systems , systems design, receivers, digital signal processing, satellite system design and satellite architecture design.

So Larry has quite an impressive portfolio of knowledge and he's here to share that with us today and talk about what are the difference downsides, the different things that you need to be aware of regarding EMF exposure in our modern society because it's just everywhere. So Larry, let's go to you for a minute. It's obviously your career has focused on these topics, but would you mind, in your own words, tell us why you have continued in your retirement to be interested in this and in its relation to health?

Larry: Well first of all, hi to everybody and hi all the listeners out there. One of the interests was associated with health in general. Once I began researching the area, and this was quite a few years after I had retired. I was actually writing an article for the Dot Connector Magazine and it took quite a bit of research to go through all the good papers out there and I learned an awful lot that I didn't know in the first place. That's what led to continued work in the area and of course I had the good background to deal with it and understand the underlining physics behind a lot of the EMF itself. So that's just in a nutshell that's pretty much what got me to this place right now.

Jonathan: Well we're really excited to hear some of the more in-depth knowledge about this stuff. I guess let's start of by talking about the differences between natural EMF, background sources of EMF and man-made EMF because you did say in your article there are some natural sources from the cosmos, from the sun, from the planet itself. What is the major difference between these two sources, man-made and natural?

Larry: OK well, everybody has probably heard in one form or another about the Schumann Resonances and these are resonances in our electric and magnetic fields. They're associated with the earth and they are powered by the charge difference between the ionosphere and the ground and all the air in between, and by the sun. So you're getting a tremendous amount of ions that are coming off the sun both positive and negative and then these are interacting with out magnetic field and they're also producing various different currents to ground via electrical discharge. That could be cloud the cloud or cloud to ground.

All of these discharges end up exciting what we refer to as the earth ionosphere wave guide. That wave guide is just the charged layer of the ionosphere, the one boundary, and the second boundary is the ground of the earth. And in between that we have the air. And that wave guide because of its particular size and distance between the two spherical plates, if you want to think about it that way, that distance is what allows certain electromagnetic nodes to resonate. So when you excite that via a sharp electrical discharge, then you get a ringing in a sense, and that ringing is Schumann resonances that are associated with our particular earth and ionosphere.

All the planets will have something similar but they'll be in different parts of the spectrum. What's really interesting, to begin to understand where we fit in this picture in terms of life on the planet, is that if you were to take an EEG reading from your brain and just plot it out over time, you would see it looks very, very similar to the same thing if you did a measurement of the magnetic field that is induced and part of the Schumann resonances.

So I could just hold up a coil and then I could measure the electromagnetic spectrum that I'm actually seeing induced in that coil, in the air and if you compare that to your EEG, you'll find that you can't hardly tell a difference between those waveforms. That is because the range of the Schumann resonances are about 7.8 Hertz and also lower, all the up to about 45 Hertz. It happens to be about the same range as our own EEGs from our brain. So this leads us to thinking that our bodies have been on this planet for a very long time, ancestrally, and the earth has probably had this kind of field interaction from possibly billions of years.

So there is something connected right here to supporting our life form as well as many other animals on the planet and those kinds of things are hard to ignore. At first they stand out to you and say well a natural EMF is very much associated with our own brain waves. So that leads you to thinking that if you're masking that by any other means or interfering with it, you may be interfering with the metabolic functions of humans.

Tiffany: So the natural EMF that comes from the cosmos is normal and healthy and the way human beings are supposed to live?

Larry: Yes.

Tiffany: So what's the man-made EMF like? What are all the things that are included in that?

Larry: Well before we get to that, let me just say that we know that if you get serious deviations from that natural EMF Schumann resonance type of wave form that we're used to having, and this occurs during severe sun behaviour, big storms so and so forth, if you get deviations in the field, you get deviations in the brain waves of the planet and those affect us. There's lots of scientific studies out there that show that you've got an increase in depression, suicide. There's also a whole lot of metabolic effects. There's things that vary blood pressure. So they have a direct effect on humans and their own behaviour. So this is very interesting in terms of just what that natural EMF is and variations.

To get to your question Tiff, when you begin to move into the other forms of EMF that are manmade, we're talking about tremendous numbers of magnitudes of actual magnitudes that is increased above and beyond what that natural EMF has been in the past. This has only been over the last 130 years or so that we've had anything like this. So if you picture hundreds of thousand of years to millions, possibly billions, our life form developed over that time period in these bodies, has only just in the last 130 years seen this kind of electromagnetic interference coming from our grid, or home grid, wireless communications, cell phones. Of course all those things fall in that category and electric and magnetic fields that are associated with our environment now that never use to be there.

So we're talking about a serious impact potentially in terms of our health. And there are many studies now that show we indeed do have these things happening now in all these categories and I'm sure we'll get into each and every one of these. But one of the theories behind what this is doing, one way to look at it is that this is actually masking the healthy natural background EMF that we were constantly living in. For example, many animals and many bacteria are very sensitive to the earth's magnetic field and they're able to adjust their behaviours or movements and so on and so forth with the magnetic field. Birds are an obvious example. Many cows and deer will tend to rest on the ground when they lie down by aligning their bodies north and south. We do also know that those same animals if they're in vicinity of power lines, cannot do that. They end up resting in arbitrary, random positions and they've lost that capability to sense the natural background.

You know this is probably the case happening whether or not it's a masking function or straight interference with DNA, with the metabolic functions of the human. We don't know exactly how to characterize the negative effects, but we do know they exist.

Doug: So Larry what are some of the consequences of being in this environment for human beings?

Larry: Well the biggest consequence for any of these effects is a deterioration in metabolic function. This is the same effect that we see with toxic exposure, if you've got toxins, pesticides, whatever the problem may be and that also is mirrored in diet. So if you've got a diet that's extremely deficient, let's say the standard American diet, then you have the same kinds of metabolic problems that occur as well as immune deficiency. So it's the same kind of thing across the board. That's why I think with your introduction, the four pillars of health, EMF rates right up there next to the others because you've got the same kind of effects.

And probably one thing we should say at the outset that is the most important, is if we talk about these effects on adults, that's one thing. But the effects on growing children are far worse and they're devastating potentially to their lives once they reach adulthood. So extremely important that all thee areas, the toxic exposure, EMF and diet, to work all these things together as best you can for your children because they are the most vulnerable and the reason is that their cells are dividing like crazy, they're growing, they're developing, all their different metabolic systems are coming up to speed and these are the things that you just cannot afford to have interfered with in development.

Once you are an adult, you can take a lot of this stuff and some tremendous abuse but unfortunately it's extremely important for children and that's why Barrie Trower is very correct in terms of getting children out of the environment of WIFI, get the WIFI out of the school, get the WIFI out of your homes. The children's environment needs to really be observed carefully and taken care of so that we have the best chance for healthy development.

Gaby: Larry, I have a question. There is research to suggest that EMF is toxic to our metabolism, our bodies and that this is an independent factor from toxic diet for example. Is there really an effect that has been studied on living organisms by artificial electromagnetic fields?

Larry: Say that last part again Gaby, I'm missed that

Gaby: I want to know if there's research to suggest that electromagnetic field have adverse effects on living organisms and that we could be relatively sure it is bad, and not toxic diet for example?

Larry: Yeah, there are a lot of studies that have been done that make it undeniable. You bring up a real good point. The problem is that when you have people that are exposed to all these different kinds of EMF, its very, very difficult to find a control group that does not have exposure to any one kind so that you can treat them as a control group for study of people that do.

For example let's say you actually were able to find a group of people who had no exposure to cell phones, they never owned one and they're rarely around people that have them and so on and so forth. You call them the control group. Well what happens if half that group is living in a home grid electrified environment that has extremely high grid noise? So they're exposed to that source of EMF and you're trying to study cell phones and your study is completely and totally polluted with the fact that their exposure to EMF in general is still high. So it becomes almost impossible to actually determine what the effect of any one of these sources may be because everybody is exposed now and everybody is exposed to essentially every one of them, only to varying degrees.

So that's one level of interference that makes it very difficult to do anything about. The other is these pillars of health we talked about that Jonathan introduced, and that is if you're going to study EMF, how do you make sure that your control is not suffering from chronic exposure to toxins, or is suffering an extremely bad diet? Again all these things produce effects that are very similar in terms of metabolic function. So it's very, very difficult to even do one of these studies and to determine for sure what you have going on. But there are a few that do.

One of them for example was a study in Bavaria, a small town there where some prescient doctors and good researchers got together before the planned installation of a cell tower that would eliminate their valley. And they decided that hey, before we do this, we're going to go out here and study the general population, talk to the doctors, look at all the complaints, chronic and otherwise, and get all the stats before they put the cell tower in. Then a year-and-a-half after the cell tower went up, they went and revisit along with measuring the power density from the cell phone tower at each and every one of these peoples' homes.

That was a very definitive result that showed drastic increase in all the things associated with EMF, depression, headaches, lethargy; all those things that we actually do associate with poor diet and toxic exposure. So that was one very good study, but a fellow by the name of Samuel Milham recognized this problem right up front a long time ago. He decided that the only way to really answer this question is not with any studies you can do today because everybody is already polluted with everything.

He decided to go back to the census records on life and death a rural and urban America back from the early 1900s all the way up through 1960 and into the 70s. So he looked at mortality and the difference between rural America electrification and the urban electrification and he found that there was a significant correlation with getting electrified, that is simply putting the grid in home. And he found a very good correlation with much higher death rates due to the things we associate with metabolic disease. Some of those were there a much higher rate in the urban deaths in 1940 in suicide, diabetes, coronary disease other heart disease and cancers. And then just as the check he did motor vehicles and motor vehicles was about the same. Well that's what you'd expect. Roughly the motor vehicles death rate by people or by population it's going to be same in rural as it would be on urban.

He showed pretty conclusively, at least to me, that that earlier electrification and the resulting noise that was on that grid that people were exposed to, before there were cell phones, before there were television, before there was a whole lot in the way of any kind of communications signals, back during those times it became clear that electrification all by itself had a very serious component to excess deaths due to exposure. I consider his work initially as being the best in terms of being able to try to sort out whether or not there's a EMF signal in the disease and death rate associated with people today. We know it's there. It's awfully hard to pull that out and then point a finger at it and say it's this much. It's almost impossible now to do that with anything.

So that was a real good question Gaby and there are more studies like this. There are studies with animals that show the same kind of behaviour, the same kind of activity of the effects on their health and also their mental wellbeing. They get agitated. They're difficult to control, many things like that. In fact the incidence of human symptoms which I already went through, the irritability, headache, poor sleep, depression, sickness, dizziness, digestive problems, concentration problems, loss of memory, hearing disturbance, sight disturbance and skin problems, are all closely related to what we're able to observe in animal populations that there are also subject to EMF from power lines.

If you notice our power lines running out to the rural areas over long distances, they very often cross very large animal pastures and farms and all the people's houses for that matter. But you've got animal behaviour incidents in the categories of nervousness, hesitation, inconsistence yield, reduced drinking, loss of weight, slow growth and aggression. These are all showing up in a number of studies to increase in the vicinity of high capacity power lines. So it's the same thing with animals as with humans and I would extend that to single celled bacteria, all the way from there up through plants and various other kinds of animals including insects.

So we do know that this affects life in general and it makes sense that some of these problems would be associated with the interference and the masking of what was before 120/130 years ago, an actual background for billions of years. So it's not really surprising considering the EMF environment we have created in 130 years, that we wouldn't be having all kinds of problems across the entire spectrum of life and indeed I think we do.

Jonathan: Larry, you brought up high capacity power lines. I wanted to ask basically in your experience, what do think the difference in negative effects would be on someone who lives underneath or near high capacity power lines versus living near a cluster of cell phone towers? Is there a drastic difference or they the reasonably the same?

Larry: Well they can be just as bad as each other. You have different mechanisms electrically that are going on. If you underneath the power line or anywhere near it, within say 100 yards or 200 yards, you've got very strong electric and magnetic fields. We know this, because if you go out to a high capacity power line and hold up a neon tube vertically, you'll get it to light up because the electric field volts per meter is enough across that three-foot tube to actually turn on the light.

Jonathan: Jeez!

Larry: So that certainly indicates the electric field is high. The magnetic field is high because when you carry 400kV, you can't put the wires together like we're used to seeing all over our appliances, home wiring and stuff like that. The wires, if you were to put them that close together you would ionise the air between them, it would arc over and then you'd have a short. So they have to separate the hot and the neutral line by a very, very large amount. So that's why you see two big wires hanging low and there's 50 feet between them. The reason for that is because you can't put them together that close at high voltage.

So the problem is the current is going one direction along one wire and back in the other direction on the other wire and since those currents are separated from each other their magnetic fields do not cancel. So you end up with very high magnetic fields underneath. So that's part of the story. Then the other part of the story is those fields also carry high frequency noise that is on the line. So although the power leaves the power plants very clean, 60 or 50Hz depending on where you're at, you're going to have a certain amount of noise on there based on the use of that power by a machinery down the line. There's many different sources. So you can have high frequency noise - and again this is a key element here. When we're talking about EMF we're talking about high frequency noise, bandwidth. So those are the things you keep in your mind when you're thinking about threats from EMF.

The single frequency tone at 50 or 60Hz is not going to be an issue for health in most instances. It's the noise that is on that, the higher frequency noise that is carried by the field to anyone in the vicinity of those power lines. So if you're in the vicinity of those power lines and you are getting a tremendous amount of a noise exposure and that noise, at high frequencies, does not ride on the surface of your skin. At low frequencies it rides on the surface of your skin, the electrical field does. And that's no problem unless it finds its way to ground. It's no big deal. It can ride on your skin all it wants. But the higher frequency noise components, above 2KHz penetrates flesh.

And with those, you may think it's all small and minute, but the thing is that the electrical potentials in the mitochondria of your cells operate on a very small amount of voltage to maintain the chemical reactions and keep ions moving in the direction they need to be moving so that you can generate energy in your life. And you begin to interfere with this metabolic energy process at the very smallest level of yourself. And when you begin to do that, you open the door for all manner of metabolic disease whether its cancer, diabetes, immune system dysfunction, adrenal issues. All these things follow on from these very basic interferences with your cell metabolism.

Tiffany: Larry, I had a question. You mentioned Barrie Trower before? He that's retired British military intelligence guy. He said something in one of his interviews about damage at the cellular level. He said something about how low level microwave radiation, for instance, if there's a young girl who uses a laptop or is in a school class with WIFI during all of her school years, and this essentially microwaves her ovaries and damages her mitochondrial DNA and then she can grow up and have a baby and pass on that mitochondrial damage to her daughter. And then her daughter can pass it down to her daughter. Can you elaborate on that?

Larry: Yeah, I'm sure that kind of effect can occur. One thing about Barrie is when he uses the term microwave, he doesn't discriminate very much in the area of bandwidth. And I am going to do that because as an RF (radio frequency) engineer I do know the difference and if you're talking about high bandwidth signals like WIFI, then yes, this is the kind of stuff that can have great interference with not only DNA but the metabolic functions. So if you had a perfect sine wave, you're not going have anywhere near the kind of effect that you would have if you have this high frequency noise appearing, high bandwidth signal. So I would modulate some of what Barrie has said by changing the word he uses very often from microwave to high bandwidth microwave signal. You see what I'm saying?

Tiffany: Okay.

Larry: Part of the problem is not just the fact that you've got this wireless signal, but it's the nature of the signal in terms of its pulsed characteristics which are what gives it bandwidth.

Tiffany: So when you say pulsed, does that mean the signal stops and starts versus a signal that's just steady? Is that what you mean?

Larry: Yes, a signal that stops. All of your GSM signals, your cell phone signals, your WIFI, those are all pulse signals and they're pulse because what they're doing is either time division multiplexing or they're co-division multiplexing, but they're sending codes, information in the form of codes that comes out in the form of pulses on the RF. And it's that pulsing of RF that is far worse than if you just had a continuous wave, for example AM-modulated wave, or an FM-modulated wave. When you get into this 1G, 2G, 3G, 4G kind of stuff, you're talking about more and more bandwidth, the higher and higher rates of are pulsing and that spreads the energy out of the spectrum in a very large way. That it turns out is far more damaging than just having even a higher power level with a very narrow bandwidth.

So I'll give you an example. When I was doing work with the antenna ranges in various places over the country, these antenna ranges, measuring antennas and they do it at CW all the time because you want to know what the antenna pattern is at a given frequency. So you're not going to use a pulse waveform to test an antenna. Well that means all the radiation is CW, continuous wave like you said. So there's less of a problem and engineers all know this, even though they try to avoid any kind of exposure to it in the first place.

But the exposure level to a CW signal in terms of the effects, are so much less than they are if you put bandwidth on that signal. As soon as you start putting bandwidth on that signal and you start sending out WIFI, 2G, 3G, all that kind of signal there, cell phones, you're talking about stuff that is pulsed. It's kind of like parking yourself next to a military installation with high powered radar and getting radiated by the beam of the radar. This is just not good.

Gaby: So the top offenders are the pulsed ones. It will be WIFI. It will be cell phones. Are there other ones that people should be aware of?

Larry: Oh yeah certainly. The worst offender for people is going to be the cordless cell phones. Those have been shown to be extremely dangerous and those are also really good examples of effects on pets. There's many anecdotal cases where the family pets have gotten sick, not to mention the people. They have removed the cordless phones and the pets recover pretty quickly.

Tiffany: You mean the cordless landline phones?

Larry: Yes the cordless landline phones come in a couple of flavours. They use to be really low frequency at 9MHz and the moved up to 2.4GHz and now they're up about 5.5GHz. They've gone up in set or frequency but they're pulsing the environment all the time. There's 100Hz pulse that goes on, of the carrier at all times, for most of these phones. So it's not like the pulsing has gone away while nobody's on the phone. Its pulsing and occurring at all times so your environment is getting a blast high frequency noise from this pulsing at all times.

It's the same thing with your cell phones. You may turn you cell phone off. Unless you put it in flight mode, it's going to transmit and it'll stay in touch with the base station and it'll perform all the functions. In fact obviously, I think it's clear to most people that if you're phone is not in flight mode it can be turned on and it can be downloaded, adjusted. It can be made to transmit, do anything someone else wants. So that's why I tell people with cell phones is keep them in flight mode, especially when they're in the home.

Doug: So did I understand that right, Larry? You're saying that the cell phones, even though they are turned off, can still be transmitting signals?

Larry: Absolutely yes. The phone may be turned off but it can still access the base station and it can be interrogated by the base station. Now the only way you could ensure that it is not doing that - and this is by law because of what they do with flights - you put it in flight mode, that's the only guarantee you have currently that it cannot be made to transmit.

So that's why I really, really do recommend that people, especially if you're not sure, make sure that you switch your phone on flight mode, especially if you're in the car because when you're in the car you're in a microwave oven kind of environment. This is another thing that Barrie correctly points out. Do not allow anybody with a cell phone to operate that cell phone inside of a car. And that means putting it in flight mode because even though it's off, the phone is still going to it's still going to attempt occasionally to look at the environment and see where its base stations are. I'm not saying all phones do that but in general they can.

Tiffany: Well that's pretty scary.

Doug: Yeah, no kidding.

Larry: Oh yeah, yeah. Then one of the other key facts that people should be aware of is to always use the speaker phone. The speaker phone, if you hold the phone two feet away from your head, then the power density of that phone on your head compared to putting it up to your ear is a factor of 100. So you're getting two orders of magnitude of reduction in the power density on your head. Now obviously your hand is still there, so it's going to irradiate your hand. However I think that we would all agree that protecting your eyes and brain and your sense functions on your head is probably a little more important than worrying too much about your hand.

Tiffany: Along those lines Larry, what do you think of the air tube headsets that they sell now to use with cell phones?

Larry: Well if it's really just an air tube that is giving you the audio, that's just fine, if that's all you're getting. If you're doing a Bluetooth, then you're putting that Bluetooth transmitter right up by your ear, then you've got the same problem.

Doug: So keeping on this theme of cell phones, do the cell phone companies know this? There's a lot of controversy about cell phones causing brain tumours and all this sort of thing. I'm just wondering if it is a situation where they're just kind of ignorant of it or if there's more going on there?

Larry: Yeah that's a good question. The cell phone companies are very well aware of the health effects. They have funded studies of their own that they have not published or they have quashed part way through. There's some people, good scientists who have lost their jobs as a result of trying to publish information that was negative on cell phones. So they know and if you look at your little disclaimer that comes with your new cell phone, you'll read the company is telling you that you use the phone at your own risk and that they are not liable for any health damage effects that you may receive from using that phone.

Most people ignore all that and just think it's just fine because everybody else is doing it and we know that kind of pathology pretty well. But the problem is that they're keeping this kind of information fairly well suppressed and the reason they can do that is just what we were talking about before. It's so difficult these days to point to an exact effect of these and that's why they're doing this on mice and things like that and then they're trying to extrapolate to humans and so on and so forth. But everybody is so polluted already in all these different forms of EMF that your cannot get a control group clean enough to give you a clear signal that you can base your scientific conclusion on.

So you see where the problem is? This is why we've been able to remain collectively in limbo on this issue and that's why it's so important for people to understand that the information is out there. We do know its harmful. All these forms of EMF are harmful and everybody needs to do their best to lower their exposure, especially for children.

Erica: I have a question Larry, kind of relating to what you're talking about with the base stations and the home. What about microwave ovens? You were sharing there's all this information that comes out and then it comes back into the ether then it's up again. What is the situation with microwave ovens? Are they safe to use or not?

Larry: Well a well-sealed oven that stays sealed to the RF, that forces the RF to remain inside the cavity, those are safe from the standpoint of as long as you don't stand right in front of it. A safe way to deal with microwaves if you're going to use them is once you've put the stuff in and your turn it on, walk away from it and don't put your face right up next to it because that is very high powered radiation coming from there. It's not clean, it is mostly CW but there's some noise on that too. It's the higher frequency noise components and the degree of the power that is coming at you will cause the exposure problem. So if you do insist on using a microwave, I would really use it gingerly in terms of stepping away from it. I have heard the stories of people testing a microwave by putting their cell phone in there inside, close the door and see if you can call it. If it rings, don't use the microwave. (laughter)

Jonathan: Very interesting. Larry, you had drawn a comparison of a microwave to using a cell phone inside of a car, like you're in that cavity so its reflecting those signals back at you. I was curious, what's your opinion on electric vehicles? I had heard somebody mention once in the past that driving an electric car was along similar lines, that it's generating this dirty electrical signal and you're in this cavity, so you're receiving that dirty exposure. What are your thoughts on that?

Larry: Oh yeah absolutely. That's why I would stay away from any of the electric cars. We actually know the effects of this are negative because there are certain people who have developed electro-sensitivity. They are very sensitive to all sources of EMF, every single one we've talked about. These people have got to be very careful about their environment because if they're exposed for any length of time, they actually end up having to recover for several days in a very clean environment.

Now these people have taken rides in these electric cars and they have had very bad reactions to being in them and the reason is because these cars are running off DC power and batteries. These batteries are generating high amounts of current in order to produce the drive for the car and this current is producing very high magnetic fields. Again there's noise that occurs on these lines. And it's that noise that's coming in that is actually imposed on the magnetic fields that electro-sensitive people cannot stand. So even though you or I might be able to get into one of these cars and take a joy ride and have lots of fun and stuff like that and not have a problem with it, eventually all you're doing is adding to your exposure.

We know that EMF exposure is cumulative. It's just like radiation. The more you get, the more you have to offset that to a lower average level by being in a very quiet environment. If your environment is dirty EMF all the time, you're just simply asking for a case of developing chronic disease. So that's why it's so important for people to take the small amount of time to gauge your environment, do the simple things you can do, turn the WIFI off, throw the cordless phone in the trash, get yourself cabled up so you don't have any WIFI, check out where the cell towers are, measure your home grid noise and then filter it. There's filters available and meters at two different places.

David Stetzer produces the Stetzerizer filters. And there's the Greenwave people. You can look these up on the internet. They produce their own meter and a series of filters that in my opinion are a little better. They're not expensive and the chances are you'll find out that it doesn't take a whole lot of filters to get your levels down even from very high input grid level noise.

You see some of your noise in the grid, if I can just divert here just a little bit, no one believes that the noise on the grid much of it for many people that are affected, are due to the vicinity of a cell tower. It has nothing to do with the signals on the cell tower. It has to do with the electronics that drive the cell phone system. And they have hundreds of pounds of electronic equipment that require DC power. Well to get DC power from the grid, you have to chop up the AC signal, filter it and then provide DC to all these electronics. So that causes a tremendous amount of noise on the local grid around that cell tower. So if you have a neighbourhood around that cell tower and they're on the same substation grid, they're all going to see that noise that the cell tower or cell phone electronics induced on the grid, they're going to see it at the sockets in their home. This is one of the dangerous parts of EMF.

So ironically in this case, it's not the cell phone, WIFI type of radiation that's causing the problem, its these electronics that are driving that. You see the irony there?

Doug: Yeah

Tiffany: Larry, along those lines you mention noise? Can you describe what noise is and then to piggyback onto that, can you go into what is the difference between clean power and dirty power?

Larry: Yeah the noise that ends up going back onto the grid, on the nice clean 60Hz that we all think is behind our socket, that noise can come from a lot of different places. Here's one weird one. You can actually get high frequency noise on that because you're wiring you're house look like a very large antenna. And so you could be getting very low frequency EM signals that are in the environment. They're coupling to your wiring and that appears all throughout your entire wiring and it looks like high frequency noise. It's way up there in frequency.

And like I've said before, it that couples to your body then the high frequency components of that penetrate your skin and this is where the effect on the metabolic functions in the body is occurring. Think about that motor that is spinning at the power company. They're burning coal, they're generating steam, the steam drives the motor, the motor turns them around and actually it's that nice speed that's producing this perfect sine wave at 50Hz or 60Hz, depending on where you're at.

Well that is what goes out a power plant. But then once you're into the environment with that and people are using that power, the machinery that they have hooked to the grid, couples high frequency noise back onto that 50 or 60Hz and that noise now is on the grid circuit and it appears at your home. So that's why it's important to measure this noise level. The meters that I'm talking about, don't measure the 50/60Hz. What they measure is the noise that is above about two-and-a-half KHz and that's the noise at that level, at that frequency, about two-and-a-half KHz is the stuff that will penetrate your skin. We're only trying to measure with a meter what's dangerous, not all of the rest of it.

So that is one example of the noise. Now when it comes to WIFI signals, if you were to look at a WIFI signal on a scope, it would just look like noise. It's just a bunch of pulse signal that is pulsing up and down. It's just a very messy high bandwidth signal. So you can refer to that as noise too so that's why I said noise is carried via EMF. Noise is the stuff that is killing us. I don't care which method of EMF exposure you want to refer to its the high frequency noise that's in that source that is causing the health issues.

Tiffany: Well Larry, does it make any difference if you live above a tower, like say you're living in a high-rise building and there's a cell phone tower sticking off to the side. If you live up top on the building, above the tower or if you live above power lines, does that make any difference? Does all that EMF go downwards or does it just disperse willy nilly throughout the atmosphere?

Larry: In both cases you'd be in trouble. In the case of the cell tower you need to get out of the line of sight of the main beam. A cell tower is a series of vertical antennas and if you look at them closely you'll see these long bars. Everybody's probably seen these things and maybe didn't recognize them, but they're long and thin. And there's usually a number of those that are pointed off in different directions. So that long dimension is what narrows the beam in the elevation plane and what they're doing is they phase those elements so that they can get beam to point where they want. And they generally try to get some of them to point to the horizon.

There's been many cases where I would say incompetent people, have put these and put these things in neighbourhoods and they haven't adjusted the beams to properly not hit the homes in the local area. And so they're spraying main beam energy from these cell phone towers right into the neighbourhood and in any cases people have gotten sick and had to move, sell their house because they could get no relief from these ridiculous cell phone towers.

Gaby: Larry, I have a question related to that. What are the typical symptoms of people who are very sensitive? Is there something that distinguishes them or can it be any symptom?

Larry: It'd be a wide range but one thing you'll see very, very commonly is headache, dizziness, loss of energy and you'll also see in many cases a prolonged depression. So a lot of these people that are in bad depressive state is a result of chronic exposure, end up being a bunch of psychotropic drugs to deal with the brain imbalances and that's not the problem in the first place. It may develop into one with chronic exposure but these people are perfectly fine if they just were to get out of the environment.

There are many doctors that specialise in treating EMF sensitive people and they of course do it with diet, with supplementation, with detox and also with EMF surveys of the environment that they live in. And if they have to they move them to get them out of the environment. If they got to sell a house, abandon the house they do it because their life is miserable. I would say it's all the same kind of characteristics that you would see in toxic exposure of various kinds to poisons and pesticides and so on. It's the same range Gaby that you would see for any of these deep metabolic issues. I prefer to help people self-diagnose because going to their GP, their regular doctor, is not going to help them with anything like this. So I recommend that do their own surveys, evaluate your environment and if you won't do it for yourself, do you it for your children because the biggest impact is going to be on growing children up through adolescence.

Doug: Well I was going to ask for a bit of clarification on Tiffany's question. So is it that dirty power is when there's noise on the line whereas versus clean power is when there isn't any noise present?

Larry: Yes, yes. So if you had a pure 50/60Hz signal and that one's your power line, there would really probably be very little in the way of health issues with that. I'm of the opinion of Professor Henshaw at the University of Bristol and some other physicists, that if you were to deal with the pure electric magnetic field associated with - I don't care if its high powered or not - power lines and that was all that was on them, then you probably wouldn't see much health effect at all.

Doug: Would there be a way for us to have power in the same way that we're kind of use to without noise? Like are there steps that could be taken kind of on an industrial level that would decrease the noise?

Larry: Yes you're right, absolutely. If people would recognize the problem as a health issue, the power companies could very easily, at each substation, get that noise as low as possible. Then you could continue to run a lot of the different power kind of stuff that's very noisy like machinery. For example, let's just say that you're away from a cell phone tower so you don't have that problem. But down the road there is a machine shop and every morning at 7:00 they fire up the machines and you've got all kinds of people that are generating tremendous amounts of noise inside this factory and they're putting it back in the grid. So if that happens, you have no control over that. It could be from 7am until 5pm you're having a tremendous amount of noise. Can you like excuse me for just a second, I've got someone banging on the door here.

Doug: Well it's a pretty fascinating topic of conversation.

Tiffany: Yeah.

Erica: I'd say.

Jonathan: Certainly.

Tiffany: It makes me want to go out and buy several hundred filters.

Doug: Make my home a faraday cage.

Gaby: Yes.

Tiffany: I've heard about tin foiled hats and how they have little microscopic holes in them so they're good as a joke but maybe in reality they don't work as well as people hope they would.

Gaby: It made me realise also that hospitals should be so noisy now. They should be healing places.

Doug: Sure, I mean how many hospitals have WIFI throughout them?

Gaby: All of them. Universities. Schools.

Doug: Yeah schools definitely. Kids are being exposed to this constantly.

Larry: I had an Amish neighbour banging on my door; he's delivering me some wood so I had to step away for a minute.

Tiffany: That's clean power.

Larry: Yeah.

Gaby: Larry we have a question from the chat. Do you know anything about possible protective properties of silk? Or is it anecdotal?

Larry: Protect properties of what?

Gaby: Silk.

Larry: Oh silk. Well no I don't really have any experience with that but I can say for sure that as far as the RF goes, like in antenna range or whatever, it's not going to have any effect. It's not going to act like a piece of tin foil, that's for sure.

Doug: Well maybe that's a good segue into what kind of protective things are actually out there. I know there's a lot of things being sold like Shungite and little chips that you put on your phone and all these other sorts of things that are supposed to help clean up the EMF environment. Do you have any comments on that?

Larry: Well for almost all the stuff out there, for example cleaning up the wireless environment, you're not going to do that in any other way than if you turn that stuff off. If you're talking about cell phones, stay away from cell phones. Don't use them in the car. These different devices, they're supposed to nullify the radiation towards you or nullify the radiation in general. If they actually worked, your cell phone would not work. There's no physical explanation that I could give you out of my imagination, that would explain that your cell phone will work but if you put this little dot on it, it protects you. That is silly.

Now there are things like the Q-Link that have got studies behind them that show that they do indeed have some kind of an effect on the bio field and are protective of certain kinds of radiation. To me the protection would go beyond radiation and would have an enhancing effect on your overall metabolism by giving you some kind of protection through the bio field.

Tiffany: Larry, what's a link?

Gaby: I have one.

Tiffany: What is it?

Larry: The Q-Link is actually, it's made with 75ft of gold wire that is hooked to a crystal network that resonates at body and Schumann resonances. So these are the frequencies that I started off talking about. They're resonant frequencies that actually are associated with our EEG, our brain waves. So somehow, and I can't explain how, except to say that the measure data seems to be fairly clear that it does have a good effect. I'll tell you what some of the data actual looks like.

They did some tests where they looked at dark field blood analysis and so what they're doing is they're actually looking at the blood pumping of the red blood cells. There's various reasons why this happens, but one of them is a hairdryer. So if you get your hairdryer and put this thing in your lap for a few minutes and the things are very noisy; they put a lot of noise on the grid but they're kind of an EMF nightmare because they run a lot of current. So these things are not good. Luckily we only use them for a short period of time so it's not a big deal. But I wouldn't use one of those anyway, it's such a noisy mess.

Anyway, people that are given this in this study, they sit there with this thing on their lap or whatever for certain amount of time and they take the blood and they show that before the blood cells were all nice and clean and separated. There was no clumping. And then afterwards, they've got this clumping going on. This is a short-term effect just having this stupid thing on. Then they do the same test with a Q-Link and a Q-Link, for whatever reason, statistically actually protected people and had far less cases of blood cell clumping. So I can't explain it but this is a case of a device that I believe does has a positive effect. It does have a resonance effect. It is a real device with 75ft of gold wire and crystal oscillators. So that much I know it's real and its tuned for the frequencies that are associated with our EEG and the Schumann resonances of the earth. That's all I can say.

Gaby: That's fascinating. I have a comment about that because I have one and that I especially wear it when I have to stay overnight at the hospital where I work. I do seem to feel more restful or more peaceful if that makes any sense? Sometimes I feel that it's the placebo effect but I think that there must be something to the research you've just quoted so yeah I think it's fascinating.

Larry: Yes and in fact I would wear mine whenever I went travelling on business because you're always in a WIFI environment. WIFI all over the plane. You get on a plane and you've got half the people have got their heads in their cell phones and you're inside a large microwave oven. That's your environment for a while.

Jonathan: Larry we had talked on a previous show a little about earthing and just the idea of grounding out your body to the ground so that you can disperse any electrical energy that has built up within the body. When we were preparing for this show, Tiffany mentioned that you have some comments on earthing; there's good places to do it and bad places to do it. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Larry: Yeah, yeah. The bad part of earthing in the home, especially in bed is that if you do have high grid noise - remember I said before the grid noise that is at the socket and is coming through the electric field from your wiring in your home, that capacitively couples to your body and that capacitive coupling depends on a number of things, but one of them is your relationship to ground. So remember all these fields are out there and they're looking for a pass to ground. If you have gotten in an environment where that electric field is out there in the wall, let's say for example, and you're sleeping next to the wall and you're also grounding yourself, you're basically giving it an invite to get to ground via your body. You see what I'm saying?

Jonathan: Yeah. Are you saying you would want to do this away from WIFI networks, away from populated areas if you were actually going to ground yourself on the earth, try not to use the device in your bed in a WIFI network you think it would be better to just basically go for a walk in the woods and put your bare feet on the ground there?

Larry: I think it would be safer unless you know how to characterize your environment with the right tools, the right meters or get someone to help you characterize it so that you pick a place that is extremely quiet EMF-wise so that you are not providing a place for that to go to ground.

Jonathan: Sure, so you're essentially acting like a lightning rod in a way?

Larry: That's rights and then the other issue I have with that that Doug and I have talked about is that if you're not sure about the wiring in your home - and by the way Carl Riley who wrote the book on tracing EMFs in building wiring, claims that every single home, apartment or whatever is at least one wiring error. It's very common. They're human errors. That's all they are but they can be devastating to your health. And if you're not sure about what is actually on your ground, for example let's say you've crossed ground neutrals somewhere forward of the panel box in the home somewhere, this is very common. This results in neck current on your wires, a hot magnetic field and if you have noise on that, you're hooking your grounding pad directly into the ground of the socket, at least many of them do that.

If you do that you may introduce a lot more possible problems that you're not aware of. I talked with the Greenwave people on the phone and at one point they were selling these grounding kits where you actually do lay on the bed, you put this grounding pad down and you plug it into the ground part of the socket. It's got a plug with just the ground plug that goes into it and I was discussing it with the owner of the company and saying this is not a good idea for all these reasons that we're talking about now and he agreed and he said he had been trying to get them manufacturer to put a warning that you check out your wiring before you do this. And the manufacturer refused to do that and I don't believe he's carrying that product anymore.

Doug: So I'm just wondering Larry if you are making yourself into a lightning rod and attracting all this noise because you are a quick path to ground, is it worthwhile to have maybe something in the room that is grounded so it will attract all of this latent EMF exposure and keep it away from you?

Larry: Yes good point, because when it comes to capacitive coupling big things in your kitchen like the stove and the refrigerator, big pieces of metal tend to be look as more like ground to these kinds of field and you'll end up collecting the attraction to or any current to the air and the ions in the air will land over on those large pieces of metal. What I recommend that most that people do is make sure that you do not sleep with your head next to a socket. So check where your bed is and if it's against the wall and your heads up there, do not get your head near a socket.

And then also make sure that you don't have any clocks, electronic equipment, cell phones, all that kind of stuff in your sleeping environment. Make sure that your sleeping environment is as clean as you can possible get it. Do not sleep next to a cordless phone, the base station with the handset. The first thing everyone should do is take those and throw them out in the trash or take it to your recycling bin, or whatever you want to do, but get it out of the house, unplug it, put it away, don't even give it to somebody. You're just giving them a bad thing.

Doug: What's a safe distance for you head to be from a socket?

Larry: Oh the best way to assess that is with an electric field meter, but I can say that you should get as far away as you can but certainly a good two feet away should be plenty because you can get a long away 0.6volts per metre on the electric field if you just get one of those electric field metres, the ones you can get on Amazon or whatever. One of them is the tri-field metre, that's a good one because it does two scales of magnetic fields that will allow you to find any kind of errors in wiring in your home and if you do have an area you can call an electrician out and say look here's my metre. It shows we've got net current here in the wall. I need you to figure out what's not hooked up right and fix it.

Jonathan: Along those lines I see in my notes that we were discussing RF metres that are capable of measuring wideband. You just mentioned this one. Are there other specific brands that people should look for specifically to measure wideband or can you just search for wideband RF metre?

Larry: Well the best thing to do for RF metres, especially if you're trying to measure for cell phones, WIFIs, any kind of other military communications or somebody has their communications dish pointing at your apartment or whatever it may be, the best thing there is to rent the equipment because the RF metres that will do this kind of a job are basically spectrum analysers and these are very expensive lab gear stuff. So I don't think anybody's in the class that would want to buy one just to do to testing in the home.

But you can rent these from various different organisations that offer these services. You can rent if for a period of a week and give yourself plenty of time to measure your own environment, make sure that you understand what the ambient cell phone stuff is, any WIFI from your neighbours, all that kind of stuff. I recommend that people get together and do this and share the cost so that you can run over to the neighbours or your family or whatever and you can test a whole bunch of homes at the same time and you're going to know what the RF environment is. Then you can do the same thing with the spectrum metre and the Greenwave metre for the home grid.

So one person could buy the metre and share the cost with all the other families that would ever want to use it in the future and that way there's a metre always circling around so everybody can always test and retest and stuff like that and use the metre to get the filters in so that you get the overall noise on the home grid down as low as you can.

Jonathan: I have a quick follow up question. When you were talking about the ground Doug asked if you could essentially put another ground in your room, some sort of metal object or something and you mentioned that stoves maybe refrigerators things like that, act like these sort of antennas. This may sound kind of silly, but if I were to essentially tightly coil copper around a cylinder and make a little ascetically pleasing copper coil, put that in the corner of my room and then plug it to ground, would that be any more effective than say, my stove is, or is that essentially the same kind of thing?

Larry: Well it's probably not going to be all that much more effective but you can do various experiments and see. Well you see we have the electric field metre, you could see what kind of things will help. Chances are just a long sheet of aluminium foil against the one side of your bed might actually do a whole lot better than something like what you're talking about.

Jonathan: OK, interesting.

Tiffany: Larry while you were at your door, I mentioned something I had read about aluminium foil having a lot of microscopic holes in it so it might not be as protective as people think, but I'm not sure about that. So have you read anything about that and what are your thoughts on it?

Larry: Well no from a physical standpoint you can punch holes in it and it'll work just fine. It's not an issue with holes until you get such a high frequency that the holes were on the order of wavelength. So the fact that it has some holes wouldn't make any difference at all for the applications that we're talking about at the frequencies that we are.

Tiffany: Great.

Doug: Larry in the document that you sent us, you had a link to a website that had a bunch of different materials that you could use as shielding. Do you have any comments on that?

Larry: Yeah. There's quite a few companies out there that make various different kinds of fabrics that are actually metal weaves and with the metal fibres or even complete metal surfaces. These can be used, for example, some people that are very sensitive are able to make a canopy that goes over the entire bed and then they're able to continue that electrically underneath the bed and they end up with basically sleeping in a faraday cage. That's very effective for almost all RF. The attenuation you get from the environmental EMF, the RF in microwaves to use various terminology but the RF in general, is many orders of magnitude. So if you starting off with something very high, once you climb into bed and close that thing you're extremely quiet. So there are some people that have to go to those extremes. These kinds of fabrics can be very expensive, so to build a canopy is something you wouldn't do unless you knew you were very sensitive and you could not move out of the environment.

Doug: Right. I've seen a video on YouTube when they were using just the kind of screen that you find on screen doors or on windows. That kind of streaming is actually really good at blocking RF frequencies.

Larry: Oh yeah absolutely you don't need much. You can have holes all over the place as long as the holes are fairly small. Let's say you go up in frequency to 300GHz, where the wavelength is a top fraction of an inch. Well you've got holes to see through there now because if the wavelength is small the hole actually looks big.

Doug: Right.

Jonathan: Sure.

Larry: This is where some of these weapons systems, where they'll use very high frequency microwave and they'll hit a crowd with those and what the people in the crowd feel is basically the cooking of their skin. So what you get is you get people that get a very bad burning sensation as a result of this very high frequency microwave and there didn't have to be any bandwidth with this one. is just like cooking people in a microwave oven. If you hit them with enough of that power and you get dispersing people running in a hurry.

You get into the weaponized side of this stuff and you get into torture technique and yes, microwave radiation plays a very big role. You've got the voice-to-skull stuff and then there are so many I've read about where these poor people, usually in the context of them being crazy and this is where tin foiled hat came from and all that kind of stuff. But there are cases where people have been experimented on and actually where it's been on prisoners where they have used these microwave weapons systems and they're really torture systems, to basically make them go bonkers, from the standpoint of inducing voices in their head.

They use wideband RF as well to induce metabolic dysfunction, they induce depression, they induce cancer and these are weaponized versions of the stuff that we're living all around ourselves in the environment, only they're actually much higher power. They're directed and there's many cases you can read about where some of these people they've been driven nearly like crazy mentally with it and then physically they're destroyed. This stuff can induce diabetes. It can induce cancer. You don't need any sugar for a case of diabetes. It quite possible to induce it with microwaves.

Doug: Jeez.

Larry: That gets into a lot of our subject area as far as the general health picture goes, but realize that that kind of stuff is out there and certainly has been used on people and probably continues to be used. There was a case of a poor guy in Bhutan and he got crossways with the emperor of Bhutan and was in bed with CIA and he turned out to be a guinea pig for a lot of this stuff over years of imprisonment. He wrote a book about it and you can read it. It's one of the sadder stories that you could imagine in human existence.

I was going to say there no doubt that the EMF environment stuff is one of the core reasons for a whole lot of chronic disease, but it's also being used at high power levels to induce these weapons systems and torture effects. The fact that it's being used at the torture level, should certainly indicate to you that the chronic exposure will do the same thing over a long period of time.

Jonathan: Certainly. You gave a figure earlier in the show in the last 130 years since we began developing this technologies to have ambient radiation, electronic frequencies, but it seems like that it must be exponential now that we've gone to 2G to 4G just in the last few years. There's cell phone towers popping up everywhere. It's not even six or seven years ago that we didn't have any cell phone towers where I live and now there are three and they are just popping up all over the place.

Larry: Yeah, you're right Jonathan. It gets worse and worse and just based on the evidence we truly have now, it's just like everything else. It all seems to be heading down the path of complete destruction.

Jonathan: Well I think we're at a time here where we'll take a little break and go to Zoya's pet health segment and we'll come back after that and finish the show with some follow-up questions. So just give us a few minutes here and here is Zoya with this week's pet health segment.

Zoya: Hello and welcome to the pet health segment of the Health and Wellness Show. This time I want to talk about EMF exposure and how it damages the health and wellbeing of our pets. It was already mentioned on the show that despite the seemingly many wonderful conveniences electrical technology, the effects of EMF on biological tissue appears to be rather detrimental.

For example iron necessary for healthy blood that's stored in the brain is highly affected by EMF. The permeability of the cell membrane of the nerves, blood vessels, skin and other organs is affected. The intricate DNA of the chromosomes has been shown to be affected by EMFs as well. Since our pets have similar physiology to ours, there is no doubt that they are being affected as well perhaps even more so since some of their senses are much more developed than ours.

Take migrating songbirds for example, like robins. Researchers in Germany have documented that even modest amounts of electromagnetic noise produced by humans can disable the internal compass of birds. This is true even when the electromagnetic signal levels adjust one-thousandth of the limit the world health organisation defines as harmless. But as part of the experiment when robins were placed in orientation cages without screening, a half mile to a mile outside city limits, their magnetic compasses remain functional.

To give another historical example of how frequency, particularly extremely low frequency can be damaging, in the late 70s there were wide spread cattle deaths in Oregon. It was the period of cold war, so not surprisingly that it was determined that the cattle have been killed by adverse ELF radio frequency transmissions from the Russians. But we don't know what could be the real reason.

In any case it seems that humans and animals are biocosmic transducers, and transmitters and receivers as well and that somehow our brainwaves can lock on and modulate to the earth's electromagnetic field, the universal electromagnetic field, as Tesla called it. Research has shown that altering these electromagnetic fields can influence the brainwaves of cats and monkeys. Humans are also affected.

Coming back to a time German researchers Lochner and Katz found farm animals living close to a high frequency antenna mast were badly harmed by radiation from the antennas. There's a lot of good research that shows how detrimental effects of electro-smog influence animals too, that the reported symptoms of electromagnetic hypersensitivity which include headache, fatigue, stress, sleep disturbances, skin symptoms like prickling, burning sensations and rashes, pain in muscles and many other health problems, may be observed in our pets as well.

Common sources of electro-smog which is the unseen electromagnetic radiation that is generated from the use of both wireless technology and household electricity, include utility smart meters, cells towers and antennas, cell phones, cordless phones, wireless internet routers, microwaves, high voltage transmissions lines, baby monitors and other wireless devices including WIFI computers, monitors, laptops, tablets, reading devices, computer monitors and wireless cell phone headsets and others. Apparently the effects of these weak electromagnetic fields are remarkable.

So the reality of the situation is that even if you may feed with pet a species appropriate diet, be responsible regarding excessive and unnecessary vaccination and medication, your dog or cat can still suffer from various problems, perhaps more of chronic nature, simply because they are living in a heavily polluted area and their body tries to deal with the situation the best that it can. Who knows if this electro-smog doesn't contribute to the various behavioural problems in pets too.

Granted our pets are much more sensitive when it comes to perceiving unseen fields and frequencies. The researcher Rupert Sheldrake has done extensive work on this topic of unexplained power of animals. In his book Dogs That Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home, he talked about research into proposed telepathy between humans and animals, particularly dogs. Sheldrake suggests that such interests as telepathy is a real phenomenon and that so-called morphic fields are responsible for it. In the book he also talks about the sense of direction including animal migration and homing of pigeons and about animal precognition including premonition of earthquakes and tsunamis.

Apparently Sheldrake examined more than 1,000 case histories of dogs and cats that seem to anticipate their owners' return by waiting at the door or window, sometimes half an hour or more in advance. So it's pretty clear that animals may have body systems that are much more fine-tuned to various electromagnetic changes than us, at least on a conscious level. If so can you imagine how they may feel living in such a noisy environment? If anything, it's a testament to the high adaptability to any environment even if highly poisonous. And can you imagine what kind of relief it would be both for animals and their owners if they were to move to an area that doesn't have such levels of electro-smog?

Who knows how many health and behaviour problems would disappear by themselves. Just to give you one last example of the technology that is product of our thick electro-smog environment, let's talk a bit about e-collar, or an underground fence, a pet fence or a fenceless boundary, is an electronic system designed to keep a pet or other domestic animal within a set of predefined boundaries without the use of physical barriers. A mild electronic shock is delivered by an electronic collar if its warning sound is ignored. Although the proponents cite various advantages to the system, any normal person can see that there is nothing good about the system comprised of an invisible and wireless fence and a shock collar on their beloved pet. The fact is that such collars, not only can increase aggression in dogs, increase stress and reduce the quality of life, but also weaken the bond between the owner and the dog, not to mention the harmful effects of the wireless.

Personally I don't see anything good about it. Anyway, this is it for today. Hopefully this information was helpful to understanding the dangers of wireless both for us and our pets and how important it is to take steps to minimise the electro smog in order to prevent its detrimental effects. Thank you for listening and good bye.

Jonathan: Alright, thanks Zoya. Good tips there. You could see that EMF exposure is just as harmful for our pets, quite clearly, as it is for humans. They're the same biological make up so it's very important to keep that in mind and to either reduce the of or not use these electric collars/electric fencing for your pets because they can have a similar effect on them.

So we're approaching the end of our show here, Larry we just wanted to wrap with some general questions. I wonder if you could take a few moments to summarize your most pertinent or important advise for people on how to reduce their exposure. A lot of people may not have the ability to move. We talked about renting some of these devices to quantify what's actually going on in the environment around them. What would you say is like the most important thing for people to do? Is it get out, take a vacation every once in a while? Keep you cell phone away from your body? Those kind of things?

Larry: Yeah, Just to step back to where we were on these devices, don't get pulled into any devices that won't give you a clear scientific study on the efficacy of their performance against EMF. If these websites and so on do not give you a scientific study for you to hold and read, then do not buy that product because you're falling prey to hype and somebody trying to just empty you of your money.

But one of the most important things I think, unfortunately all these areas are at the same level of importance; there's wireless, EMF, the power lines and stuff like that; EMF in general, but the grid noise and so on that I think it's best if people get together and if they get some friends together who want to do the testing and you could spread the cost out, you can either buy the meters or you can rent the meters and then do some testing and over a period of a week or two, test your environment in all these different areas. Then take your measures to reduce them, filters in the case of the grid stuff, they're about 25 bucks a piece, most problems will take about five to six. Again it depends per square feet and number of electrical lines and so on and so forth.

You can measure your RF environment. There are some things we could do that we know you should do and that is get rid of your WIFI stuff, go wired and put the Ethernet lines in, the cables. Use those. Get that environment out of the house. You can't do anything about the neighbour but you can measure how bad it is and if you feel like you need to do something about it then get your neighbour on board and see if they'll do the same things you will. Or there's a number of blocking technologies that you can use that will just block the RF out. We didn't talk about those smart meters but you can easily solve that problem if you have one or if they put one in on you. What you could do is block that meter RF either from the outside or the inside or both. It doesn't cost very much money. Anybody can do that.

There's quite a few things that you can do if you just go through and look at these sources and make the appropriate measurements and then take the appropriate action to minimize this. I can't underline it more, that the importance for children is much, much higher than it is for adults. So it's that growing body that needs to be as clean as possible in all three major areas that we talked about and the most you can do in all of those is diet, detox and EMF, all the better for the kids. So that pretty much sums it up in a long sentence.

Jonathan: Well Doug, Erica, Tiffany, Gaby do you guys have anything else to add? Okay well Larry we really, really appreciate your time. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us and coming on the show. It's awesome to have somebody who has this actual scientific, technical background doing this professionally for many years and is able to tell us that these things are real and that it's a very valid concern for people to have.

Larry: Oh yeah, well I appreciate the opportunity to get this stuff out there. Mitigating a lot of this stuff is really so easy. It's just a little bit of understanding of what the sources are and what they can do to you.

Jonathan: Sure, alright well thanks again. We really appreciate your time and thanks everybody for tuning in today and for people in the chat room, We will be back next week Monday at 2 p.m. eastern [Now Fridays at 10am EST] with more interesting health topics. Thanks again.