Transcript:

Michaeal: It's Michaeal Herzog, the American awakening, coming to you live from Round Rock Texas, and I wanted to take just a minute before I go to my guest, we're going to get her up online in just a minute here, and tell you that, I have run across in my journey after awakening here, people that have literally left this country over what's going on. And you know what, I was almost one of them, I got to the point there after I had woke up and when I went through my dizzy stage of not knowing what to do, I thought about leaving, I was even examining other countries of which to go to. And I know of a number of people that have actually left this country and the guest that I'm having coming up next, is one of them. She's got a story to tell that I think we're all going to be fascinated with. I've gone into her website, and I'm going to give it to you, as soon as I can find it here. There is a plethora of information in this website, matter of fact you can get lost in it for days. Ah, yes, here it is. Copy this down, www.signs-of-the-times.org. So you might want to go in there and take a look around, you'll probably get lost in it for days, I'm in it right now, there's so many articles, I clicked on a couple and went through them, you can just spend days in here. So without further ado, Laura are you with me?

Laura: I think I'm here, can you hear me?

Michaeal: I can hear you just fine, how's the weather in France?

Laura: Well, it's been a sunny part of the day, thunderstorms part of the day, generally chilly.

Michaeal: Is the weather over there in the early part of May, is it generally cool or is it normally in the 70's, 60's, what?

Laura: Well it should be warm, we're in the south of France, people come here because it's warm, it's like the Florida of Europe, and it's been rather chilly to say the least and depressingly rainy, cloudy, quite a bit cooler than normal.

Michaeal: I see, ok. Well, I tell you what Laura, I have been perusing through your website and of course I go through a lot of sites in my job, and there's so many articles in here. I've clicked on a couple of them and read through them and they're fascinating, but you could get lost in here for literally weeks. Now you left this country, what, about 2 years ago, 3 years ago?

Laura: Well, we left in February of 2003.

Michaeal: 2003, ok. Now, for the listeners, will you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you did here before you left?

Laura: Well, most of what I did before I left was, I spent many years just as a wife and mother, I worked as a social worker for the Health and Rehabilitative Services in Florida. I spent 25 years as a hypnotherapist, working with various psychologists and a single psychiatrist in my local home town. And raised 5 children. I did basically, the whole normal riff on ordinary American life. I did have unusual interests, because of course my esoteric work, my hypnotherapy, which got more and more esoteric as time went by because, it was standard in the beginning, the kind of thing where you do under supervision, where you habit control or relaxation or insomnia therapy, that sort of thing. And it branched out into other areas where I was doing a lot of work that was private from referrals, people who wanted past life regressions and so on and so forth.

Michaeal: Interesting, if I might stop you for a minute, just out of my own curiosity, in the course of your work or research, have you ever run across the name Dr Lee Pulos?

Laura: Spell it.

Michaeal: Pulos.

Laura: No, I haven't.

Michaeal: Ok, he's a psychologist, he wrote The Power of Visualization and he was heavy into hypnotherapy in his profession, but I'm sorry, go ahead.

Laura: So, I was doing that sort of thing and I had a pretty broad set of categories for phenomena in the world which was what I was always fascinated with. And I thought I had it pretty well figured out, which was along the line of standard parapsychology, which is that the mind does everything. For example, poltergeist phenomena or stigmata, so on and so forth, those kind of things were produced by the mind. And even to the extent that if somebody was seeing a UFO or something, I believed it was some kind of mass hysteria, that the mind was literally producing these things. So I was going along in that mode for quite a long time and several people kept asking me, what do you think about UFO's, and I said at the time, well it's mass hysteria, I even had a name for it, I called it the Millennial Disease. It was pre 2000, of course. So all that ended one night when I actually saw one.

Michaeal: You actually saw a UFO?

Laura: Yeah, it was weird. It was a very unusual situation, not only did I see, it but quite a number of people around the area, there were 3 articles in the local newspaper about it. One of the witnesses was a state trooper who was the younger brother of a fellow I went to school with, I lived within 50 miles of where I was born all my life, so you know, pretty much knew everybody.

Michaeal: Was it one of those small towns where everybody knew everybody and all their business?

Laura: Well, when I was little it was, but by this time it had grown so much because Florida has 13, 14, 15 million people now, it went from almost nothing to one of the fastest growing populations in the U.S. So it was pretty popular, but there was still the local people who had been there for several generations and was still kind of a closed society, or closed network to the, what we call the snow birds or the Yankees or whatever. But anyway, that's what opened the door to whole other type of research, because I wanted to know just what the heck this was.

I had a cousin who was an engineer at NASA and I talked to him and I said, "This is what I saw," I described it to him, I said, "Do you know of anything we have like that?" I wanted to eliminate the possibility that it was some secret technology. And he said, "Well, not what you're describing, not that I know of, but then there are things I don't know about." So that really didn't give me an answer, but it did open the door to begin reading about some of this a little bit more seriously and I spent, oh probably a good several years reading, sometimes 10, 12, 13 hours a day, anything I could get my hands on, cases, cases, cases.

And wouldn't you know it, low and behold, no sooner do I start actually just looking at the subject, and I wasn't going to make up my mind about, all of a sudden I got this really strange contact with this woman who called me up about some computer equipment, and we were having a conversation and she mentioned that she wanted to know what else I did, I said, well I did this, that, I mentioned the hypnotherapy, which you don't normally mention that often to people, it's just not done.

Michaeal: I understand, it's by request really, I think.

Laura: Right. So she was all of a sudden, "Oh my god, you've got to hypnotise me, something happened to me, I went to a funeral several years ago and on the way back, something happened, really unusual and I think it was a haunting by my aunt, and she described the situation and it was like a classic missing time scenario which had just read about, come on, I was just getting my feet wet. So I thought to myself, ok, well I'm going to prove that this whole abduction business is a state of mind, that it's a cover for something else, maybe somebody's been abused and they're explaining it as being abducted by aliens or whatever. So I was basically loaded for bear, to steer, and I shamelessly, I am even ashamed to admit this right now, I shamelessly tried, during this particular session, to lead this woman away from any idea of any kind of abduction, any kind of aliens. And of course, in her conscious mind, there was no such thing. But this is what came out, even though I was leading in a such a way as I did not want her to go there. It's hard for me to explain that but...

Michaeal: You're doing good.

Laura: But in any event, that's what came out. It landed on the side of the road, took control of her car, she pulled off the car, strange creatures came up to her car, that's the last thing she remembered. And I never could break through. And every time I tried to get her to break through to remember what exactly happened after she saw these beings approaching her car, she would start groaning and clenching her arms...

Michaeal: Ok. I've got to stop you there, we've got a break here Laura, stick with me, we've got 3 minutes, we'll be back. This is Michaeal Herzog, the American Awakening with my special guest Laura Knight-Jadczyk, stick with me, we'll be back in 3, republicbroadcasting.org

[Break]

Alright we're back, Michaeal Herzog, the American Awakening, coming to you live from Round Rock Texas, this is a short segment coming up and I've got my special guest Laura Knight-Jadczyk, who is into a fantastic story and I'll have you continue, we've got about 5 minutes and then we have another break Laura, but go ahead.

Laura: Alright, well I'm trying to jam a whole lot into a short period of time, but anyhow, this poor woman was in so much pain every time I approached that subject of what happened to her after she'd stopped her car and these individuals approached it, that I literally had to take her out of hypnosis, and just so anybody who wants to know, I videotaped the session and when I was later interviewed by the St Pete Times journalist Tom French, he took the video to watch it and he had it transcribed and parts of this particular hypnosis session are included in a 20 page article that he wrote about this particular work I was doing, which is still online at the St Pete Times Florida website.

Michaeal: Ok, now wait a minute, it's not on your website, correct?

Laura: No, this is a St Pete Times special report that they did and it's about a 20 page article.

Michaeal: Ok, well do me a favour, you say 'Sampi...'?

Laura: St Petersburg.

Michaeal: St Petersburg times, it's an article out at St Petersburg times, and what's the approximate date, do you know?

Laura: The article came out on February 12th or 13th of 2000, yeah, it was right in 2000.

Michaeal: Ok, so they could go Google that and pull up the link.

Laura: Yeah, the title of the article is really cheesy, it's called The Exorcist in love, if you just Google that, you'll land there, believe me.

Michaeal: The Exorcist in love.

Laura: Don't even go there. [laughter] But in any event, I later found out that the woman was, now there were things she didn't tell me which really upset me, she was married to a material physicist who worked in the underground base, Catoctine Mountain, where is in Maryland or Fort Detrick. And worked on some very secret government research and there was some real weird things going on there. But what happened was, on this very night that I was doing this hypnosis session with her, while she was under hypnosis on the lazyboy recliner in my study, there was this gigantic flying black boomerang hovering over my house that was seen by other neighbours in the area, who reported it to the newspaper and there were newspaper articles about it that came out 2 days later.

Michaeal: Now this is in Florida, right?

Laura: Yeah. It was kind of like a mini flap and it all seemed to focus around the fact that I had this woman that was the wife of a material physicist that worked at a secret underground base, under hypnosis in my house. It was totally bizarre. So, anyway that kind of catapulted me really head long into some real deep, weird research. And as a result of that I became very familiar with the so-called UFO research crowd, which was the training ground that got me ready for the so-called 911 research crowd.

Michaeal: Ok, the UFO research crowd, did you run across Dr Steven Greer in that?

Laura: Oh yes, and what's his name, Whitley Strieber and Lloyd Pye and Linda Moulton Howe, a whole cast of interesting characters. And did lots of research on that, I've got some articles on those subjects on my website, but I don't really focus on that so much anymore, because, you know, been there done that. And while there are weird things going on this planet, some of the weirder things that are going on are in real life, right there in front of us and they can get us all killed if we don't do something pretty soon.

Michaeal: And that's the trail that you're taking us down now, is that correct?

Laura: Yeah, this is where we're going to go because this research that I was doing at that time, that's when people started crawling out of the woodwork, all kinds of really strange people who had really strange behaviours and agendas, and dog eat dog and back biting and back stabbing and hate. And anybody who had anything different to say was immediately attacked. And of course the party line was, "Yeah there are aliens out there and they are here to save us," that's the Steven Greer line by the way. And anybody who said, "Now wait a minute, a so-called abduction, if an abduction is in fact taking place is a violation of a person's free will, it's a crime."

And as it happens there was a friend of mine that was an ex Chicago cop and he's retired to Florida and he'd opened up a private investigation service and I was talking to him about it one day and I had a particular case that I was looking at, and he says, "Well why don't we just look at this like a crime, this person says they went somewhere, says that they were abducted, that things happened to them, lets investigate it like a crime."

And we began to do that, I obtained the clothing that the woman was wearing, which fortunately she had not done anything with, she hadn't sent it to the cleaners. We put it in plastic bags, we got all kinds of stuff, we got ready to send it to a police lab to have it analysed and then all hell broke loose. And this baffled me to no end, why all of a sudden were all of these people going crazy because I was going to send a dress that a woman was wearing when she claimed she had been abducted by so-called aliens, to a police lab for an analysis. We weren't even going to tell the police lab, what kind of crime it was, we were going to call it a rape.

Michaeal: Tell me, who exactly was it where all hell broke loose, was it the police, people in the police department?

Laura: No, it was the UFO research people. All of a sudden, as soon as word of this leaked out, I was accused of being a government agent, I was going to destroy UFO research, I was going to ruin this woman's life, I was using her as a vehicle to fame and glory. If she knew what was good for her she would get that dress back, she would demand that I decease and desist investigating her case.

Michaeal: Ok, let me stop you, we got break dear, stick with me. We'll continue that subject when we get back.

[Break]

Michaeal: Go ahead Laura, continue.

Laura: Ok, so anyhow, the whole UFO research, so-called community in the area, just really kind of went bonkers and started going after me because basically I'm just saying, hey, let's get down to some real basics here, nobody needs to believe in alien abductions, nobody needs to believe in UFO's, let's investigate this scientifically. And, it seems that is not what they wanted.

Michaeal: Now you're talking about the UFO group themselves didn't want you to do this?

Laura: Right. What was so shocking to me was the kind of lies that were being told, there was just absolutely no necessity for that. If somebody doesn't agree with what I'm thinking, if somebody doesn't agree with what I'm saying, just say that you disagree, state your own position, but do not go around telling lies about me and don't attack me and don't start calling me and threating me with death.

At the time I was going around giving some lectures on the subject, what I had been discovering with these various people that came to me for hypnosis claiming they had been abducted by aliens, and what I was finding was quite a bit different than what some of the more popular books on the subject were saying. So I was giving some talks about this and I actually started getting death threats at this point about my UFO research. And my private investigator friend actually accompanied me to the last lecture I gave. And as they say he was packing a weapon or something, it was really funny, and because he was sitting back there in the corner because somebody had called and threatened to kill me.

And there was a group that was meeting over in Orlando at the time that had a fellow named Henry Belk, he was with the Belk-Lindsey fortune family and he also was a CIA agent. And he was extremely disturbed by what I was saying at a lecture that he attended. So, I was getting this whole picture of some kind of a contrived and controlled, almost a disinformation program that had been created and was being run and operated, and any time anybody came along and just wanted to say, "let's look at this and let's deal with this scientifically, let's get some real answers, let's not promote any belief," that's not what they wanted, they wanted to believe things.

Anyway, so in 1999 I started writing about my experiences with this sort of thing and publishing them on the internet, and it's a series called The Wave, and about half way into it things started getting ugly again, I started getting a lot of hate mail. But I just kept on doing what I was doing and then there were also a lot of people who were saying, "Wow, this is great stuff!" From the point of view of just looking objectively at what's going on.

And that's what I was doing and everything was just fine and dandy until this certain person came along in late 1999 and introduced himself as a book publisher and as an editor and a journalist and how much like me he was and that we had the same approach and so on. And I thought, well wow, this great, somebody to talk to about all these things. And he became friendlier and friendlier and he wanted me to send him all the information that I had, everything I had learned, and me being a dummy, I just gave him everything, I was just so happy to have somebody to talk to.

Michaeal: I can understand that, we have a lot of listeners out there, they wake up to the truth about some of the things that are going on and they feel like they're isolated because they can no longer talk to the dumbed down American public, so go ahead.

Laura: Yeah, so I was having this email correspondence with this individual and he said, "This Wave series, this is great, it needs to be put into a book, I'll help you," and to make a long story short there, what he was doing was he was working his way into my confidence, and one of the things that he did, and this is an important thing for people to remember, he started activating the fear factor in me. "What you're doing is so important, you are so valuable, somebody's going to take you out." And he would tell me that his phone was being tapped when he talked to me. And really kind of winding me up and I was starting to get really worried. And of course, he was the only one who had all the answers, he knew all the ins and outs of the subject and without him, of course, I was not going to survive.

Michaeal: And he was the only one who could protect you from these...

Laura: Exactly. So, he became closer and closer, and even that in it self is a long story how he got exposed, but there started to be some problems between things he was saying and the facts. And even when somebody is winding me up in a certain way I'm still observing what's really going on. And I was noticing that there were discrepancies between things he said one time and things he said another time. And he would write these long emails about this and I would read them and I would get all worked up and then I'd say, wait a minute, then I'd go back and read something he's written before and he'd said something different.

So there was kind of a confrontation that was brewing and this was in July and August of 2001, just prior to 911. And put it this way, we had kind of like our own private 911, because just at the time that I realized that he was not who he said he was, he was doing nothing but ripping me off, he had been writing this book supposedly while he was taking all this material from me, most of my stuff was appearing in this book. [laughter]

Michaeal: And what was the subject content of his book?

Laura: His book was about esoteric research and to the subject of Fulcanelli, alchemy, that sort of thing. The search for the Holy Grail, the kind of esoteric subjects that I was interested in writing about. So at that point he really started attacking and this is when I saw the second example of people who would just start lying about you, things that have absolutely no relation to the truth, no foundation in fact, just slamming and defaming you, but this was even more interesting.

Michaeal: Sort of like what Bill Orielly and Sean Hannity does to any 911-skeptic right, ad hominem attacks, that sort of thing?

Laura: Well, even worse than that, there was something about it that was really disturbing because they would tell a lie that was so completely a lie, and repeat it with such assurance that even the person about who the lie has been told, begins to doubt their own sanity. Thinking, did I really do that, did I really say that, and I'm suffering amnesia and I forgot? And then it was a interesting thing to observe because by this time it was taking place on the internet, there were several discussion groups that were involved in it and I was watching how people were shifting, taking sides, they were forming up in groups, people who were saying, "wait let's look at the facts, the facts don't bear this out," and then the others who were just completely taken in with the emotional words.

So this is what got me started on researching what kind of people can tell lies like that, who one the one hand can claim that they are an esoteric truth seeker, and turn right around and be so disgusting. And what kind of people are taken in by that, who don't care anything about the facts. What's really wrong with these people? And that's when I started researching the psychological problems, psychological anomalies, abnormal psychology.

Michaeal: Reminds me of a few people in public office. [laughter]

Laura: Yeah. So we kept going deeper and deeper and then I wrote another series about this research, I was writing it daily as I was doing the research. And it lead me deeper and deeper and, believe it or not, strange other things started coming up, things like John Nash and Game theory and some of the work that was being done at Princeton. And my husband, being a physicist, had several friends who were physicists who died under extremely unusual circumstances that were kind of peripherally connected. And it got a little more interesting.

So I'm in the middle of doing this and I realize that what I am seeing in this research on psychopaths, on abnormal psychology, is exactly what is playing out on the global stage with George Bush and Dick Cheney. And the more I was reading the more I was recognizing these symptoms, these absolute clinical descriptions of symptoms, these people are certifiable. And it was just shocking to me and I started writing about it.

So that was when I started keeping track of the politics, and I was writing the 'signs of the times' page, which just started out as basically just a little thing for me to keep track of what was going on politically for myself and my readers, it was never intended to be any big deal.

That's when I started talking about, every time George Bush would make a speech, I would take it and I would analyze the speech, analyze what he was doing. This was in the build up to the war with Iraq, and the dynamic interaction between him and Saddam Hussein. Like he was saying, "You have weapons of mass destruction." "No, I don't have weapons of mass destruction, come and see." "You have methods of mass destruction, you won't let us inspect." "Yes, I will let you inspect, I've told you come and inspect, there's no weapons of mass destruction." "Well even if you don't have weapons of mass destruction and even if you wont let us come and inspect, you're thinking about having weapons of mass destruction."

And it was just this insane dialogue and I was analyzing it and I was calling it what it was, I was saying this is psychopathy, and that's when the death threats began again. And the more I wrote and the more I published, the worse it got. There were phone calls, there were email threats, one of my daughters was targeted by a, what do you call it, a road rage type stalker. She was run off the road several times, she was in 3 accidents in less than 6 weeks, the third one totaled her car. My other daughter was poisoned, ended up on life support in the hospital. My dog was poisoned and died, dead cat was left under my window. [laughter]

Michaeal: I'm just going to stop you there and just ask you, your daughter was run off the road, she's had 3 different accidents, the car that did this to her, like was it a dark car with all the windows tinted, was it just a normal looking car, was it something that you would look at and suspect that it would be a government covert official or something of that nature?

Laura: Well that's the problem when you're dealing with a teenager. I'm trying to tell my kids, you got to be careful, who was it, she's so hysterical she says, "I don't know mom, I don't know." I told the police, she gave the report and so forth, and they said they couldn't find anybody, they had witnesses that said yeah they saw what happened, but nothing ever came of it.

And then finally the night that she was run off the road and she hit a telephone pole, totaled her car, if it hadn't been a Volvo it would have killed her, you know. And I was thinking, this is getting ridiculous. Meanwhile, my husband had recently kind of eased himself out of a job with a DOD contractor, or subcontractor, and we knew that things were getting kind of touchy because of his work, his area of expertise. And I also saw that George Bush, I knew, even when this back and forth was going on between Bush and Saddam, I new back in say October/November of 2002, George Bush is going to bomb Iraq.

Michaeal: Tell me something, let me stop you right the because I watched his last State of the Union address, which really nauseated me, but being wide awake now, having the glasses on and being able to see, if you will, what's really going on in the world, I noticed that when I watch George Bush give a speech now, like the last State of the Union address that he gave, I counted, I think it was like 29 lies, that I knew he told before I just turned the TV off. But what I notice about George Bush is that he has a certain body language when he lies. Have you picked up on that?

Laura: Well, I don't watch him too much anymore, it's been a long time since I watched him. The main thing that I noticed about him was that he lies as though it's fun.

Michaeal: Sometimes he'll stick his tongue in between his teeth.

Laura: The twitch of the shoulder.

Michaeal: Right, the twitch of the shoulder, a nod, like I got over on them again sort of thing, yeah.

Laura: Yeah.

Michaeal: Yeah, alright go ahead.

Laura: So anyway, I knew then that he was going to bomb, and I kept thinking that if I keep writing about it, if I keep pointing out to people, if I keep telling people this guy is a psychopath, the whole family, they're psychopaths, they're deviants, the whole bunch of them, it's not just the family, it's not just Bush, it's Cheney, it's Rove, it's Condoleezza, the whole bunch of them, they're all a network of sick, sick people.

Michaeal: Right, they're cronies and they appoint like-minded people with their agenda, they're megalomaniacs, they're psychopaths. Now I have a good friend that comes on my show quite frequently, as a matter of fact he just posted an article, I think you went in there and looked at it, on the Bush family. He researched the same thing that you do, that these people are total psychopaths, they're nuts, ok.

Laura: They are nuts, one psychiatrist said about psychopaths, that these are people who do not have the decency to go stark raving mad. Because they are crazy but they manage to function in life, to maintain a certain façade, a mask of sanity, and to act like they're the ones who are sane and everybody else is crazy! And this is the thing that really, really, makes you doubt your sanity because they are so sure that they are right, that they are sane and that their way of seeing things, which is completely upside-down, black is white and white is black...

Michaeal: Oh, it's perverted.

Laura: ... is correct, that a normal person who has normal doubts begins to doubt their own sanity.

Michaeal: Well, the way I explain that Laura, is that for a good integral person who loves god or whatever or the universe and is just, all they want to do is go through life, be happy, raise a family or whatever, and we have a particular perception of things, which is ultimately good and we want the best for people. However, there seems to be an element missing that creates that within their being, so they are exactly the exact opposite of us.

Laura: Absolutely, and what's so hard for all of us is... We describe them as people without souls.

Michaeal: Right, and that's another word for just saying, surmising what I just said, they don't have a soul, they have no integrity, they have no conscience, they have no soul. Go ahead, I'm sorry.

Laura: And it's extremely difficult for any normal person to really grasp that, because there are even psychiatrists who have worked with them for 20, 25 years, 30 years and who know that there is absolutely no chance, not a chance of a snowball in hell of fixing these people or changing them. That any kind of therapy only makes them smarter and better at putting on over on people. And they still want to try to say, "Oh it's because they were abused as a child, or they have a rough childhood," and let me tell you, that has nothing to do with it because when you're dealing with a psychopath, the childhood experiences only determine how the psychopathy manifests, if you live in an upper class family and you have some advantages, you become president. If you live in a low class family and you get beaten every night, you become a pimp.

Michaeal: I got to stop you there, we got to take a break.

[Break]

Michaeal: Laura, go ahead, contunue.

Laura: Oh yes, so as I was saying, I knew in October, November, December, Bush was going to bomb Iraq, and that's when we made our plan to leave, because not only was I very, very, disturbed to see that people were not getting it, people were not waking up, people were not doing anything. You tell somebody he's a psychopath and they say, "Oh well we have the political process," and I'm saying, "The political process is not what you need when you deal with a psychopath." And so anyhow we left and our little 'signs of the times' page became even more of a centre of discussion, because this was the angle that we were pushing, which is that we're dealing with pathological types in high places.

Michaeal: Right, and it's not just him, it doesn't stop with him as you just mentioned, it's Condoleezza Rice, it's Dick Cheney, there's a whole... And looking at your website Laura, I know that you've gone down the rabbit hole on a number of different issues, and it takes me back to the Pnac documents that were drafted and signed by a number of these people, Jeb Bush, Wolfowitz, Richard Pearl.

Laura: This has been in the planning stage for a long, long time.

Michaeal: Right, but also, and I give credit where credit is due, although I do not, I despise these people, they have done such an amazing job of dumbing down, if you will hypnotising, to use your word, hypnotising the American public to a point where, when you try to rip the curtain back from the wizard and show these people what's going on, they literally glaze over.

Laura: They'll attack you.

Michaeal: Right, because it rocks their paradigm so badly with this illusion of a, well its Alice in Wonderland world, is what it is, it's where they live. And if you go in there and try to expose any sort of element of truth to it, they are offended so badly that they will attack you.

Laura: Well let me just tell you, I want to tell you that he will go after Iran, these are desperate men, these are men who've committed crimes, high crimes, high treason. Their involvement with 911, they are very desperate men. If anybody thinks that they're going to get rid of them by any kind of pusillanimous political process, think again, please people, it aint going to happen. You're dealing with criminals, desperate criminals in charge of the most powerful nation on Earth. They're not going to let go.

Michaeal: Well, no, and it brings up another topic, now in your estimation, of course we have an election coming up in 2008, but truthfully, if indeed we were to attack Iran or if a larger war escalated in the middle east, he can suspend elections, he doesn't have to, he can stay there as long as he wants and as maniacal as these people are, that is a distinct possibility.

Laura: It's not only a distinct possibility, it is a probability.

Michaeal: It's a probability. And again, I have to make mention of Don Nickeloff who just finished posting an article on, basically on the Bush family and you talk about deceit, this deceit goes back a long, long way.

Laura: And you know why? A lot of people will say that no group of human beings could carry out a conspiracy like that over that period of time, because they would need to have their immediate gratification. And in a certain sense that's true. But what we are talking about here, we are talking about an entirely different species of being, and this species is acting on behalf of its own kind, we are not conspecific with them.

Michaeal: Ok. We have to take a break now.

[Break]

Michael: So we're talking about the species of the individuals, go ahead.

Laura: What we call essential psychopathy, occurs at a rate of, it depends on which expert you're listening too but there's somewhere between 2% and 5% of the population. And they are genetically different. And they are so different that when brainwave scans of psychopaths were included in a technical, an academic paper that was presented by Robert Hare to an academic journal, the editor of the journal wanted to refuse the paper because he said those are not brain scans of human beings. They were so vastly different from any kind of brain activity that goes on in a normal human being, and when I say normal human being, of course everybody has different neuroses, but when I say normal human being, I mean somebody who is a member of the other 90% of the population. There's more of us than there are of them. Yet because of their extreme certitude, their ability to do what's called a reversive blockade, to lie and to lie so convincingly that a normal person who has ordinary doubts begins to doubt their own sanity, and to be able to put their conception of reality over on masses of other people with this certainty that they have, that they emanate, they have a profound effect on huge numbers of normal people, large segments of the population. And because they have no conscience they are able to do absolutely anything they want to get to the top, nothing stops them. And they always inevitably rise to the top. And a capitalist society is designed for the 'dog eat dog' world of the psychopath.

Michaeal: Now, is it that they don't have a conscience at all or...

Laura: They don't have one.

Michaeal: Ok, it's not that they know how to supress negative actions or anything.

Laura: No.

Michaeal: Just absolutely according to brain scans don't have a conscience. Nothing that they do is considered bad, as long as they have convinced themselves that that's what they want to do.

Laura: They don't even have to convince themselves, they just want to do it. And, an example that's used by a friend of ours who works with us, is that suppose you're a starving person and there is a heavy wooden door and behind that door there is food, then you take an axe and you spend as much time and effort that is necessary chopping on that door with the axe to get to that food. Well a psychopath would do that even if the door was a human being or a thousand human beings or a million human beings. And to them it would be a door, it's just between them and what they want.

Michaeal: So, what we have here in the White House is a prime example of somebody who by his hand and/or by his order has literally been responsible for the deaths of, I would say over a million people in his presidency. His father, the same thing with thousands upon thousands of Iraqis.

Laura: Hundreds of thousands.

Michaeal: Then we've got the issue with the depleted uranium, the vaccines that they're giving to the soldiers. We're going to have to take a break.

[Break]

Michalel: I have a couple of questions for you, but go ahead, continue and then I'll pop them in when I have a chance.

Laura: Well, why don't you just go ahead and ask because it'll get my brain going here.

Michaeal: Ok. Let's go into the spiritual for a moment, because obviously these people do not have a conscience. And I have noticed and I'm sure that a lot of us have, I know you have, that if you take a look at specific pictures of Dick Cheney or Condoleezza Rice, or even George Bush, there's a certain element of evil in their look, in their eye. And my question is, along the spiritual lines, and I know that George Bush and John Kerry both, they're members of the Skull and Bones, and so is George H. W. Bush, and we know that in there they do really weird rituals, and I'm going down the road of saying that if these people don't have a conscience are they worshipping the dark side, or they have no conscience, no perception of spirituality, or what?

Laura: Well, the funny thing about this is, and this is something that we've really, really asked some deep questions about and speculated about and we've observed. The first thing is that you have to understand that, most religions, and I don't want to really offend anybody, because most religions have been taken over by psychopaths.

Michaeal: Organised religions?

Laura: Yeah, because what happens with any ideology, and here's an example. Say for example the idea of communism, communism was how the early Christians lived, how the so-called Jesus people lived, they lived communistically. But what communism became under, say for example, Stalin, was absolutely nothing to do with the communistic principals the Jesus people lived by. Communism under Stalin was basically state corporatism, the state was a giant corporation and it owned everything and everybody was a slave to the state and it had nothing to do with people sharing and sharing alike with each other. And that's an example of how an ideology can be taken over and subverted and used for completely different purposes. The same thing happened with Christianity, Judaism, Islam. These religions have been taken over by psychopaths and most of the principals of the original founders of the religions have been completely turned around in the same way that George Bush can tell us black is white and white is black, or there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

Michaeal: War is peace, yes.

Laura: Yeah, war is peace. So this is the first thing. The second thing is that by way of these religions they have inculcated into the 96% of the population that are normal, who are not these genetic deviants, these atavistic throwbacks, probably to something like Neanderthal, and have convinced everybody that everybody is created equal and everybody has a soul. And so all of us normal bleeding heart liberal type people who love everybody and want to fix the world and want everybody to be nice and get along, grow up believing that all you have to do is love everybody enough and be nice enough, share enough, give enough and even the most hardened criminal can be saved, can be salvaged.

Michaeal: Right, but you know, and I don't mean to interrupt you, but that brings a question to mind that really, the normal thinking individual is, if you will, a victim because of their weakness of believing such a thing.

Laura: Absolutely, that's the whole problem. And you see, psychopaths they understand that, they study us, like some sort of a bug under a microscope. They know how to push and pull our emotional buttons, they know how to inspire us, with, "Well you're either with us or against us," patriotism, mom, the flag and apple pie, and to use all of these kinds of things on the 96%, and they are able to do it without meaning a word of it, and able to use emotional words that have no content for them, so the person, who is a normal person who is listening says, "Oh, he says that he was very sad about the deaths of all of those soldiers, and I saw a tear trickle out of his eye and it made me feel so warm and fuzzy that he cares so much about us," and it's all bullcrap.

Michaeal: Well, let me ask you this, since you bring that up, I noticed that when this massacre happened to Virginia Tech University, he got on there and he was talking about how saddened he was and blah blah blah, and we know that's a lie, but, do you think that these people, really, some part of the motivation for what they do, and I'm not saying all of them, but I'm saying part of the motivation for what they do, is because maybe they envy what we have that they don't and they actually hate us?

Laura: No.

Michaeal: It's just a totally different agenda then?

Laura: They do not envy us. If you watch that freaky alien movie Independence Day when the alien is inside the glass cage, and the guy says to him, "What you want from us?" he says, "I want you dead, die!" That's basically the whole thing with the psychopath, they do not envy us. And any of them who come along and try to pull on your heart strings by making you think that, "Oh well, I'm so sad because you have something I can't have and I'll never have and don't you feel sorry for me?", that is a big trap, it's a pity trap, because one of the number one tools that the psychopath uses when they feel like they're losing control of their victim, is the pity ploy, you know, feel sorry for me. I don't have what you have, you have such a rich life. No. They believe firmly that it is their destiny to rule the world, and they believe firmly that it is the destiny of everybody else to serve them.

Michaeal: Well tell me, in your estimation, I mean we have what 531 members of congress, 100 senators, members of the cabinet and so forth, so we've probably got 700 or so actual government, top level federal government officials. In your estimation what percentage of those do you think would probably fall into this category, the large majority, half and half, a small majority of them?

Laura: A large majority. And the ones who aren't genetic deviants have been made psychopathic by the environment, and they have dirty laundry. You don't think that George Bush and those guys were doing that illegal wiretapping to listen to John Q public, do you?

Michaeal: Well, that brings up another thought. I've noticed about some people that if they are literally an evil person, somebody that is a liar, a cheater, they think everybody else thinks like they do and they're paranoid, consequently part of the reason for the wiretapping and watching the emails and so forth is, they're so paranoid that they think people think along the same lines as they do.

Laura: I think they were getting information to control all of the judiciary and all the members of congress and all journalists and all the people in corporate positions that they couldn't control because they weren't deviants. They were just compiling information, so that they could control. I mean look at how the Dems just rolled over and played dead on every single thing that they said they were going to do.

Michaeal: Well, the left right paradigm is a façade, they've got their marching orders, they're all controlled, whether it be because they're a psychopath or whether it be because they are compromised, they're all controlled, the large majority of them. There's a couple I can think of that aren't, Ron Paul is one of them, but very few, you can count them on one hand. And even if they're not, by the time they get to a place to have any real power or if they're running for real power, they are faced with the option or they are tempted with compromise or they are ultimately faced with the option of converting or killed. The last person I can think of that actually made it to the presidency, and I think, again listeners out there I'm not saying he was, but I think that he was uncompromised, was John F. Kennedy. Ever since then, it's been downhill. But another thought that I had is that, regarding their sexual persuasion, I know that we've seen a lot of scandal with paedophilia in the White House with homosexuality, does it affect their sexual persuasion as well, I mean how many of them are actually normal heterosexual human beings?

Laura: You got to understand, for the psychopath and related deviants, everything that operates inside them is for power and control over others, however they develop the ways and means of doing this. If they do it by subtle manipulation... And there are woman psychopaths who do it by pretending to be weak and helpless. But it's all about power and control over others. And the more power that they can feel by controlling and hurting and dominating others... To a psychopath, sex is relieving a physiological urge and it doesn't matter to them whether it's an infant, whether it's a boy, whether it's a girl, whether it's a woman, whether it's a donkey.

Michaeal: And the reason for that may be, and I'm not saying it is, I'm just thinking this as I go along here, is that they literally do not have any compassion or passion for anybody. I'll give you an example, Bill and Hillary Clinton, now Bill Clinton has had his escapades with sexual perversion and I've heard stories about Hillary Clinton, I'm not saying they are true or not, but I've heard stories.

Laura: Yeah, I've heard them.

Michaeal: Ok, so it's about the lesbian acts, and it's like, there is no real unity in the marriage there, it's all for show. And so really, it's all self-centeredness, the relief of the sexual urge, it doesn't really matter who it is or what it is, I would almost compare it to, not a rapist, well maybe a rapist, I mean a rapist doesn't, as the stories tell me....

Laura: Rape isn't about sex, it's about power and control.

Michaeal: Right, it's about power and control, yeah. So there's many different avenues, there's anomalies with these people that evidently you've explored.

Laura: Yes, we have lots on the website.

Michaeal: We've got to go to a break here.

[Break]

Michaeal: We're back. Laura, tell me, is it a combination of money and power and control, or do they want power more than money, or money more than control?

Laura: It's all about control and power, money is just a means to that end.

Michaeal: I see, ok.

Laura: That's the currency of control in this world.

Michaeal: Now, tell me, is it possible, and I'm going to take you back, did you remember seeing, you may not have, but there was, I don't even remember, some event where George H.W. Bush was talking about his son Jeb Bush and he started to cry, did you see that?

Laura: Yeah, I saw that one.

Michaeal: Was that staged, was that age and maybe at this point in time he thinks that it's getting closer to, I mean are these people atheist, do they believe in Lucifer, what is their mindset?

Laura: Well, ok, getting off to that, first of all I don't think that he was feeling anything like what you or I would consider to be a real emotion. If anything he was feeling sorry for himself, that's really the only thing, the closest thing to an emotion that a psychopath or deviant can feel, is sorry for themselves. They can also fake crying, they can fake emotions. But as far as what they worship or spiritualty, they create religions, they create religious ideas and they use them to exert power over other people.

What do they worship themselves? Well the one thing that I keep coming up against and finding hints and clues about, is that there is, believe it or not, there is a vast network of connections between them that have to do with satanic practices. And I don't want to say too much about those kinds of things, but, it's true that there is a strong satanic tendency among them, and whether they actually believe that they are summoning spirits or whether they do it because other people have done it before them and have taught it to them, I really can't say because not too many people have gotten inside that part of them, have gotten close enough to where they can even find out anything about that. But it keeps coming up, there's OTO, Golden Dawn, Satanism. You just keep touching on that, it's like a horrible black hole that's somewhere at the bottom of all of it, whenever you dig a little bit deeper.

Michaeal: Well, we know that once a year a lot of the world leaders, including members of the White House, go to the Bohemian Grove and they do a mock sacrifice to an owl called Moloch, and this is what is called the cremation of care, which means that it's some kind of a symbolic ritual that they do so that they can go another year and maim and cheat or whatever, and whatever they're worshipping, whether it be Lucifer or whatever, gives them complete amnesty for whatever it is that they are going to do that's nasty to the world, I guess.

Laura: Yeah well, think about this woman Elizabeth Batory, who was one of the ancestors or relatives of the guy who was Vlad, Dracula or whatever, cousin to king Steven of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, one of those places. She believed in bathing in the blood of virgins would restore her beauty. And for her beauty was power, that was how she kept and exerted her power. So she was very invested in remaining beautiful and if killing a bunch of village girls and draining their blood and bathing in it was what it took to stay that way, that's what she did.

Michaeal: In your mind, do you, because I'm starting to feel this way in my world, do you feel like in their capacity they use, I mean the laws that are written and there's millions of them, are written for us, but as far as they're concerned they are above the law, and we see that played out consistently when somebody will get arrested or pardoned or they'll take one of their own down for one reason or another.

Laura: Well, think about that, stop just a second. Are the laws really written for us, because if you think about what we call a legal trial, legal process, it's a process where they pick and choose what evidence is allowed to be heard, the jurors are not allowed to personally know the person that they are judging, to have any real knowledge of that person, they're only allowed to hear the evidence that is presented to them by the attorneys, which is all according to a pre-set formula, and it's so easily controlled that the outcome can be decided in advance and the entire drama set up so that the innocent are found guilty and the guilty are found innocent, and then, the process of swearing, to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, that oath means something to a person of conscience, it means nothing to a person with no conscience and a person with no conscience will swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and will lie through their teeth.

Michaeal: Good point.

Laura: The law is not made to protect normal human beings from psychopaths, it is made to protect psychopaths from normal human beings.

Michaeal: That makes sense. Listen, let me ask you Laura, I know we had talked about this and you said you had a lot to cover off the air, and I had mentioned that we didn't want to take calls, I do have a caller on, do you want to take some calls?

Laura: Sure.

Michaeal: We're going to take a break here.

[Break]

Michaeal: Alright let's go to callers then. Let's go to Jim from Kentucky.

Jim (caller): Hello, Mike, hello Laura. I just had a question for Laura, I wanted to know if she could recommend any reading for just the common ordinary folk out there that might be able to either tie this psychopathic evil in the politics, how they get to be politicians, how that all works?

Laura: Absolutely. Ok, yes there's some very important books for everybody to read. The first one would be Martha Stout's The Sociopath Next Door, she kind of cops out and calls them sociopaths, I like psychopaths. Then there is Robert Hare's Without Conscience, and there is a new book out by Robert Hare and Paul Babiak, it's the one about corporate psychopaths, Snakes in Suits. So Snakes in Suits, Without Conscience and The Sociopath Next Door and then once you have read those 3, then you must get and read Political Ponerology - The Science of Evil Adjusted for Political Purposes, by Andrew Lobaczewski. And I wrote the introduction for this book and I also edited the book and it is probably one of the most important books you'll ever read because it describes exactly what kind of psychopath plays what kind of role in the political arena, how they interface with other types of psychopaths, characteropaths, paranoid types and it describes how the normal population is psychopathologised so that they follow the psychopath, and what percentages of the population are likely to be taken in by psychopaths and what kinds of problems those normal people might have that makes them susceptible to psychopaths. It gives you chapter and verse, symptoms, signs, everything. And tells you how the whole network fits together, how they rise to power, how they manifest their power and where it ultimately ends up. So those are the books that you should read and everybody should read them.

Michaeal: Anything else Jim? Oh, he's off the air, ok, alright we're good. Let's go to Judy in New York. Judy you're with Michaeal and Laura.

Judy (caller): Hi, this is the great and important show.

Michaeal: Oh no, not you. [laughter]

Laura: Hi Judy.

Judy (caller): Hi Laura. You discussed psychopaths who have gotten into positions of power in the world, I guess that's a really fertile breeding ground for them. But I was wondering how you felt about the psychopaths who had infiltrated both the mainstream media and the alternative media?

Laura: Well, that's a really loaded question, because it's the same symptomology that I saw in the so called UFO research field. Whenever there is a void or an absence of authoritative answers to a pressing question that is out there in the public's mind, this is a perfect platform venue for psychopaths who seek power. Because let's face it, you've got a power void, you have an information void, there are psychopaths there in lower levels in life who think that, "Hey this place is for me, I can become an expert, I can become a researcher, I can become whatever, or at least I can present myself as one, and I can begin to put my theories over, I can get a following, I can get groupies, I can make money, I can go on the talk show circuit, I can write articles, I can give my opinions, I can become an expert!" And that's what psychopathy is all about. One of the favourite fields for psychopaths is psychology!

Judy (caller): That's really disturbing, putting your psych in the hands of a nutter.[laughter]

Laura: So yeah, there's an information void, there's an authority void, there is no authoritative voice with real answers, with real research, so it sucks in the psychopaths like crazy.

Michaeal: Ladies, I want to tell the audience that Judy is, thank you Judy, Judy is the one that referred me to Laura and these girls are friends, so what I'm going to do, if you don't mind Judy, I'm going to hold you on the line. I want to pull another friend of mine up, Michael from New York that has given me all kinds of good information and I want to see what he has to say, if you don't mind. Judy, you stay there alright. Hello?

Michael (caller): Hi Michael, hi Laura, thanks for taking my call, I'm just glad to share all that important information with somebody like yourself because you can keep sharing it from your position, which is I'm sure pretty connected with a nice network. Now, you know, it's amazing that these people like the Clintons, when you hear them talk about, especially Hillary, "it's for the children," when you hear that line, and how these Americans don't realise the façade and the facetiousness in which she is presenting that information. They're like vultures, when they're thinking of children, they're thinking of something they're going to eat, they don't support these kids. Americans better wake up. And all this, the profile that you're presenting is perfect, because this is what communists are all about, they're all perverted, they're all mentally unbalanced and they're evil. I think the bottom line is, they lack a soul and that's why they have an evil bent. I just can't believe how Americans aren't catching on to this yet, in general. I know we are, but...

Michaeal: There's a very small percentage of us that are. Would you say so Laura? Obviously the overwhelming majority of people aren't catching on, they're waking up but it's slow.

Laura: Well, there are actually some numbers, like I said, there's up to 5 or 6% of the actual deviants and then there's another 12% that are related, related issues that are not necessarily genetic deviants but they are people who have been pathologised by life or experiences. They become essentially very much like genetic deviants. So there you've got 6+12, you've got 18%. And then you've probably got another 10-12% that are people that are just weak willed, just looking for somebody to follow and the person they want to follow is the one that sounds the most sure of themselves, and remember psychopaths always sound very sure of themselves. So you're eating up your percentages there, and the numbers of people who are either pathological or manipulated by them. So then you have the other say, what, 70%, 60% of the population, and at the other end of it you probably have 6% who are awake, and then you have another 12% coming up from the other direction who are potentially awake and somewhat aware and able to be supportive of the 6% that are awake, and then another percentage that are semi kind of awake, and then you have the people in the middle that can go either way.

Michael (caller): That's an accurate assessment Laura, that really is. You know, another field that they gravitate towards, beside the psychotherapy type of field, is politics, they gravitate towards politics.

Michaeal: They gravitate towards politics for the power.

Michael (caller): That's right, exactly right.

Michaeal: Ok, well listen Michael, hey thanks a lot, I really do appreciate your input, you're a big help to me, thank you.

Michael (caller): Thank you sir.

Laura: Just remember, ideologies do not need psychopaths, psychopaths need ideologies, so don't fall into the trap of saying, communist or socialist or capitalist or democrats or republicans, because every single one of them has been infiltrated by psychopaths and the inner core of all of these ideologies are run by deviants.

Michaeal: Well I tell you what ladies, let's go to another well-known individual. Judy are you with me?

Judy (caller): I'm here.

Michaeal: Ok, let's go to another well-known individual, let's go to Don in Ohio.

Don (caller): Hello Michaeal, hello ladies.

Michaeal: Laura, let me introduce you to Don Nickeloff. Don, this is Laura Knight-Jadczyk.

Laura: Hi Don.

Don (caller): Hi Laura.

Laura: I read your piece yesterday.

Don (caller): What did you think of it, what's your perception, I'm interested?

Laura: Well, I started out thinking, wait a minute, this is just too wild. And then the more I'm reading, because I'm looking at the documentation and I'll tell you a little secret, genealogy is one of my hobbies and this is something that really bothered me, the lack of genealogical records and data. I have cd's with data on them from before 2000, before Bush became president. And I went back and plugged these cd's in and there is no information. And I just can't understand how it is that somebody can get to be president of the United States and his genealogy is not well known to every person in the country. So the more I was reading that, the more I was saying, hmmm, yeah, boy there is a real lack of information about these people and this deserves some serious thinking and attention, definitely.

Don (caller): Well, if I may comment, I didn't use the word pathology, I don't think once in the 16,000 some words that are in the article.

Laura: No, you didn't.

Don (caller): My intention was to grab the attention of the American people and probably the world, so they could see what has been going on, because they formed the EU under the same auspices that they did the Federal Reserve. They used the technology against the people of the world. They've created wars for their own enrichment and it describes specifically the type of behaviour that you're describing.

Laura: It's a different species.

Don (caller): Yes, absolutely.

Laura: And they are after the survival of their kind.

Michaeal: At the expense of our kind, Laura?

Laura: At the expense of our kind.

Michaeal: Does that tie in to Agenda 21 and the UN, alleviating 90% of the population?

Laura: Yep.

Michaeal: Let's throw a word out here, let's characterise?

Laura: Well, I'd say he's one of them.

Michaeal: Ok, well I want to comment real quick, I've been through your article 3 or 4 times, Laura's read it, I know that Judy, Judy you've read it?

Judy (caller): Yes I have.

Michaeal: Ok. Don has done meticulous research on this article and yes a lot of what he says ties in with this deception and this consistent lies that have been told going back down through the years, and it's obvious that there's a bigger agenda involved, which is a world government. And I've got a certificate in private investigation, so of course I went down the rabbit hole on Don a ways, and I found nothing that refuted anything he said. As a matter of fact, we had a caller, I had Don on the other day, and we had a caller named Chris who was trying to discredit Don and his article and mentioned a fellow by the name of John Buchanan, and by the way Chris, if you're listening, I went back and I looked at John Buchanan's work and I also listened to an interview with John Buchanan on the Alex Jones show. And I happen to disagree with you sir, because everything John Buchanan said fits right in with Don's article. Now he arrived at his conclusion from different research and the conclusion that Webster Tarpley arrived in with his book The Unauthorised Biography of George H.W. Bush, they're all arriving at the same conclusions sir, so I just want to throw that out there again.

Don (caller): I would comment Michaeal that I used a different method than the one that's presented to us. And I used a lot of intuition, and there's no book for that, you either have it or you don't.

Laura: Yeah, what just struck me, as I was going through, was this lack of available documentation for these birth records, for these things that would normally be widely available. Is there any other president or presidential family that does not have a complete genealogy available?

Don (caller): That would be a good research document, wouldn't it?

Laura: Well I've done the genealogy on John Kennedy, I've done genealogy on several of the other presidents, and I've done my own genealogy, way, way back.

Don (caller): Well there's disputes on certain ones, you can look at Bill Clinton, there's questions there.

Laura: Well, yeah, he's adopted though, isn't he?

Don (caller): Well, yeah, but the story is that he had his father murdered on the highway coming back from a sales convention in Chicago, near some highway in Southeast Missouri with Illuminati numbers.

Laura: And you know, the only thing that can really help us to understand the scope of this, is to think of it in terms of a different type of human, or different species of human, that is basically looking after its own, looking after consolidating its position over and against 95% of the rest of the population of the planet, because nothing else makes any sense.

Michaeal: Ok, I'm going to have to interrupt here guys and say we don't have much time left, lines are full...

Judy (caller): Can I just say one thing before I leave?

Michaeal: Go ahead Judy.

Judy (caller): I just wanted to say that Laura's work is really so important, and I really consider myself a student of her research, because I've been drawn by psychopaths, they are charismatic, they very often have a wonderful vocabularies and great senses of humour, and they are in positions they find themselves in, you find them all over the place. Obviously we've all seen them in religion, and we all know about all the paedophiles in religion. I have met women who have been sodomised by their fathers who are reverends, etc. And also in the New Age, it's another place where they flock, these gurus. I once heard a guy say after thousands of people are cheering this guy on, he says, "I think I'm the second coming of Jesus." So it's really scary because people are so hungry for answers and they look to these people.

Michaeal: Ok guys, Judy and Don, as much as I'd like to keep you on for the rest of the show I can't.

Judy (caller): I just want to thank you again and I want to listen to Laura anyway.

Michaeal: Yeah, I'll catch up with you later Don, thank you for calling in Judy. We've just got a short time til the break, so I've got more calls on the line. Let's go to Mona in California, Mona you're on with Michaeal and Laura, go ahead.

Mona (caller): Laura I'm looking at your website and it says Mona Montgomery has been exposed as an agent provocateur and I'm surprised to see that because I was noticing you have about 800 followers, users, and you grade them as to whether the force is with them or they're a Jedi or they're under moderation or they're banned. And I think I'm entitled to an explanation as to what you mean by me being exposed as an agent provocateur.

Laura: Who is Mona Montgomery?

Mona (caller): Well all I know is that I'm Mona Montgomery, and I came on your webpage and I said a few things about Borlin, and I noticed myself getting attacked by a lot of your followers so I left your forum of course, but now I was just coming to look at your work and I found my name. You say, Mona Montgomery has been exposed as an agent provocateur, I think I'm entitled to an explanation.

Laura: Well, if that's the way the discussion shook down, that's the way it is.

Mona (caller): Well this is a statement you made, not on the forum, under my personality evaluation, and I want to know what you mean by agent provocateur?

Laura: An agent provocateur is somebody who provokes a situation, whether they are conscious of what they're doing or not conscious. Anybody can be manipulated by a psychopath.

Mona (caller): So, it seems to me that anyone that asks a question provocative of a negative response from you would be an agent provocateur, because I did not agree with you?

Laura: Can you be very specific, can you describe the exact situation, what you were saying?

Michaeal: Excuse me I have to intercede here, I've got one minute left and we don't have time for...

Mona (caller): I just think she needs to know that she's the very type of guru that she's condemning and she's the psychopath.

Michaeal: Why don't you give out your website for our listeners Mona.

Mona (caller): nukeisrealnow.com

Michaeal: We'll see who is who.

Mona (caller): Yes sir.

Michaeal: Let's got to ray in Texas, Ray you're on, we've only got about a minute.

Laura: I think that says it all.

Michaeal: Oh, really? [laughter]

Ray (caller): Hello, what you all were talking about earlier about getting rid of 90% of the population, if you do a google search for Illuminati, alternative 1, 2 and 3, you'll find it, it's old stuff, it's been out there forever. Also people need to look up tr3. People need to know this. One of the alternatives was to create a base on the Moon and on Mars, which we already have. Don't believe me, look it up for yourselves, do the research people, it's happening.

Michaeal: Ok, thank you Ray, appreciate it, we're out of time. Closing thoughts Laura?

Laura: Well, like I said there are all kinds of psychopaths and deviants in the 911 movement, and as Judy pointed out in the New Age movement and so forth. People who want to do things like "nuke Israel now", and if they don't understand how they are being used and manipulated to become agents provocateurs, then they need to get educated really, really fast. And don't jump on me because I think nuking Israel is a bad idea, nuking anybody is a bad idea.

Michaeal: I couldn't agree with you more, I'm of the old philosophy of Rodney King, can't we all just get along? I mean seriously, the first thing we need to do, in this country, we need to take back our constitutional republic. Now once we've done that, if you have differences maybe you might be able to sort them out in some rational diplomatic way, but in the meantime lets concentrate on getting our republic back.

Laura: Getting our republic back and getting the psychopaths out of office.