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This week on Behind the Headlines we spoke with Daniel Estulin, award-winning investigative reporter and author of The True Story of the Bilderberg Group, Deconstructing Wikileaks and TransEvolution: The Coming Age of Human Deconstruction. Estulin hosted a weekly show - 'From the Shadows' - on RT Spanish and has a documentary on the Bilderbergers coming out this summer.

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Here's the transcript:

Niall: Hello and welcome to Behind the Headlines on SOTT Radio Network. Apologies to our listeners for that little glitch in the Matrix but we're back, we're here and we're live. This week we're speaking with none other than Daniel Estulin. Daniel is an award winning investigative journalist, bestselling author of The True Story of the Bilderberg Group. He's also authored 11 other books, five of them international bestsellers and has now sold something like six million copies worldwide. In the next couple of months he's also releasing a documentary on the Bilderberg Group. His latest book, TransEvolution: The Age of the Human Deconstruction describes "The change of paradigm for humanity that shall define its future and threaten its very existence." Welcome Daniel. Are you there with us?

Joe: Daniel? Sorry there's a really loud noise coming through. Daniel, are you there?

Daniel: I'm here.

Joe: Yeah okay. Sorry, we were getting a long, loud tone there when we put you live, so we don't know what that was, but it's gone now.

Daniel: Okay, I'm here, yeah.

Joe: You can hear us okay?

Daniel: I can hear you very well.

Joe: Alright great. Well listen welcome to the show. It's myself, I'm Joe and this is Niall, we meant to have a chance to talk to you before the show. We didn't get a chance because of our technical issues, so we'll just do a quick introduction now. Welcome to the show.

Niall: Yeah, it's great to have you here Daniel. Thanks very much for coming on. I've introduced you to our listeners. I think most of them will be familiar with you and your work. You're most well known to us. I think the listeners too as the guy who wrote the book on the Bilderberg group, so that seems like the place to start. Maybe you can tell us a bit about your background and how you became interested in uncovering the hidden elites in general.

Daniel: Well about 20 years ago I had lunch with a friend of mine who was in the secret service and over lunch he was telling me about this secret society or private organization. I didn't quite understand what he was talking about at the time. He basically told me that three years into the future, that would be 1995, Canada would be broken up into English and French speaking Canada and all these funny things would go on behind the scenes. I kind of asked him "Why would they do that and who would be doing it?" And he said to me "Some very powerful people because what they need to do is they need to do is they need to balance the budget." It all sounded nonsense to me and I quickly forgot about that lunch and our conversation until 1995 rolled around. Suddenly all these things which this funny man was telling me so matter-of-factly three years before was right there in front of me on the television screen and all these characters and individuals and politicians I've never heard of from these obscure, pipsqueak, extremist parties suddenly were making very wild and very nasty and very troublesome statements and announcements; how they wanted to split from Canada and the other side was saying how they'd go to Quebec and just wipe them all out and how war was upon us.

Then I kind of understood that what this man knew through years in the past actually came from some very, very good sources. I asked myself if the President and the Prime Ministers who don't really have all that much power, and it was obviously that they didn't, then who the heck ran the world from behind the scenes. And that's a little bit of how I got into the Bilderberg conspiracy or Bilderberg organization or call it what you wish, but it's been one hell of a ride. I've been at it for about 15, 17 years and I'm not the first person to talk about Bilderberg. Jim Tucker talked about it in the '70s and the '80s and the '90s and before him Spotlight magazine also in the states discussed it as well in the '60s.

But I think what I was able to do with the True Story of the Bilderberg Group is make it popular and cool to talk about it whereas before it was very much the domain of conspiracy theorists. I brought it to the mainstream. I showed the documents. We all hear of people who talk about "They control the world. They do this behind the scenes." But we didn't really know who these "they" were until I brought it out into the open through the Bilderberg group and I showed the photographs and documents and their secret discussions. And then I kind of traced it and demonstrated to people how these discussions had very much an effect on the lives of everyone on the planet. And I guess that's what made it popular. Now The True Story of the Bilderberg Group has been published in 68 countries now. We just published it in India and it has been translated into 42 languages and five continents and now we have the documentary coming out at the end of May, beginning of June, worldwide documentary, 90 minutes on the Bilderberg group based on my book.

Joe: The Bilderbergers have the Bilderberg meetings. It's not really a conspiracy in the sense of it's in the public. The mainstream media in the west will report on the Bilderbergers and mention that they're having meetings and there'll be some names thrown out there and stuff. But they present it as more or less a kind of high-level networking organization where these are powerful, rich people who get together and do business deals and maybe they talk to politicians or lobby groups like you have in many countries, particularly in the US. You have lobby groups who will petition government for different things. They're kind of present in terms of...

Niall: As benign.

Joe: As fairly benign, normal kind of thing. So what is it about them that you contend is a bit more insidious or a bit more underhanded?

Daniel: Well Bilderberg was a very important element of the oligarchical structures of the Cold War period and that is a pretty significant factor because what it meant was that Bilderberg was a vehicle through which private financier oligarchical interests were able to impose their policies on what is normally sovereign governments. You're absolutely right, there is a lot of nonsensical kind of stuff out there about Bilderbergers and the all-seeing eye or an evil eye, Jewish Masonic conspiracy and just all kinds of crazy stuff; some people talking about them as some kind of extraterrestrials who came down to us. We're not going to go into that because it's so silly. But what is absolutely true is that the biggest scandal part of this whole Bilderberger organization was that it was heavily populated by people who came out of the old World War II Nazi apparatus and who basically tuned up and dusted off and basically deployed to become a hard core of the Cold War anti-Soviet structures in the west, people such as Prince Bernhard for example, of the Netherlands, was one of the founders of the Bilderberg organization. Walter Holstein, the first President of the European Commission was a Nazi lawyer. A lot of the structure itself of the European Union was actually based on the Nazi structures which were put together Holstein 20 years earlier in the 1930s before the Second World War.

But what is undeniable, no matter how you look at all these organizations, the Bilderberg, the Trilateral Commission, which is a junior varsity member of these organizations who do things behind the scenes, or the Council on Foreign Relations which is an American sister organization to the Bilderbergers, or you could talk about Petrashevsky Circle or Bohemian Grove and just so many of them out there. They're all conveyor belts. None of them are the real seats of power. I think it's obvious, the fact that you and I are talking about Bilderberg should basically exclude them from being very, very important because truly important people and organizations absolutely are unknown to the general humanity and nobody writes bestsellers about them.

I'm not pooh-poohing my own book. What I'm saying is that when it came out...

Joe: Well you're allowed to.

Daniel: ...Yeah, I'm modest. It was just the right time to kind of talk about this because we always talk about "they do this" and "they control that" and we never really know who these "they" are. And when Bilderberg came out, suddenly the photographs, and people suddenly said "Aha! I knew it! There they are." And suddenly they became Bilderberg and it's not. You kind of look at it from a logical point of view of a thinking individual. And you look at the people who attend these meetings, Presidents, Prime Ministers, Ministers of Finance, in Europe and the United States and Canada. Most of these people belonged at one time or another to Bilderberg. Of course in the United States sitting Presidents don't attend these meetings but they are represented by others who attend on their behalf and there's absolutely no doubt that that's how it works.

But what is interesting is the fact that you have these annual meetings where 120, 130, maximum 140 people meet once a year for four days and they do discuss world politics. But then to take it from there and extrapolate that in a four-day period they iron out all the body politics for the entire year and you have these four geezers sitting in a dark room, in a dungeon, holding hands staring at a crystal ball, planning the world's domination (laughing), I mean it's pretty silly. You laugh and I laugh, but what is true and this is where things get very interesting, is that the intention behind all of the Bilderberger meetings is what they call creation of aristocracy of purpose between Europe and the United States; basically how to come to agreement on questions of policy, economy, strategy, in jointly ruling the world. What's interesting about this entire thing is again, people talk about New World Order and Bush's father says New World Order and people go crazy and they have these multiple orgasms and go "Aha! He said it out loud!" But it's not a one world order and new world government. The concept is different. The concept of one world company limited corporations that have a lot more power than any government on the planet. We've seen this and we're seeing it on a daily basis how basically corporations around the world on behalf of governments. And Bilderberg talked about this back in 1968 when George Valdi, undersecretary for economic affairs with Johnson and JFK, he made a presentation on the internationalization of business and they brought this into the open, the whole idea of one world company limited and what exactly they stood to gain by having it.

Joe: Well it's sensible and rational, it makes sense, what you're proposing and what the Bilderbergers and these other groups do when you consider the globalized nature of business today. There's some major global corporations who span the globe essentially and are making money in almost every country in the world. So it would make sense, from their point of view, that they get together with other corporations in the same game and political representatives from those countries and they all work something out, supposedly, as far as they're concerned just to do better business and to make more profits for the shareholders, blah, blah, blah. But one of the questions I wanted to ask you was, you talk about the scope of the Bilderbergers being global; has it always been truly global and is it even global today? The first meeting I think was in 1954 so during the Cold War were there Soviet representatives of business and government attending these meetings? And today, are there Russian and Chinese, for example, representatives there?

Daniel: Oh actually no, you could never have these Bilderberg meetings and Bilderberg is your old NATO alliance, Western Europe, Canada and the United States.

Joe: Right, okay.

Daniel: The Trilateral Commission which is Americans, Asia and Europe, that's the Trilateral. We have the Council of Foreign Relations which is an American organization with all members only coming from the United States. And then you have others, lesser known, better known, but Bilderberg has always been a form of NATO alliance and now you have former Warsaw Pact nations, you have individual members from these nations. And even a few Russians over the years have been invited, but these Russians were not invited as members of the government. These Russians were invited because they're traitors to the nation state of Russia or China or whatever and basically they go there, didn't represent the government. A few years back in 2004 Grigory Yavlinsky, was the president of this group called Yabloko, was for a time seen as an alternative to Putin in 2004. He's basically the continuation of the corruption-ridden scandal period of Yeltsin back in the 1990s where the country was literally wiped out and almost was destroyed, almost put out of its misery. But luckily that didn't happen.

But what's interesting about all these kinds of meetings, when you look at them, if you take a year, let's say, as a 12 month period, as I just said, I know a year is a 12 month period. The first big meeting of the year is Davos, that's end of January/beginning of February. We just had it this year and after that you have the Trilateral Commission regional meeting of America which takes place in February. Then you have in March the CFR meets, they have their regional bi-annual meeting. And then in April you have G7. In May/early June you have Bilderbergers meet. September you have International Monetary Fund, World Bank annual meeting. Then again in October you have the Trilateral Commission Asia, in between somewhere there the Trilateral Commission Americas meet. And then in November you have the Trilateral Commission annual meeting. So basically you have all these different meeting and you throw in foundations, think tanks, Hudsons and Ford Foundations and Rockefellers and then Carnegie and Hoovers, and just etc., etc., etc.

But it's basically kind of invisible international consensus emerges and it's carried over from one meeting to the next. But no one is really leading it. That's what's interesting about this. There's not this old geezer who looks really ugly like these Hollywood films, and is basically this bad guy with a big scar on his face, you know. You get that cliché. It's not serious. So again, no one is really leading these meetings but the consensus become the background, for example, for the G7 economic communiqué and it becomes the ones who impose the international monetary fund, when it imposes and adjustment program on Argentina or structures an adjustment program in Nigeria. And then it becomes when the United States President proposes to congress and somewhere in between it becomes the national policy of governments in Europe. Before you know it the European Commission is talking about it. And before you know it, the President of the European Commission is making it into European law and before you know it, it's all over the place in every newspaper in the world. You just kind of say "How did this come about?" Well it just came about because somebody decided it was important. But it was important at these forums, behind the scenes. And that's how all the stuff really works.
Then what happens is this consensus reached and simultaneously promoted by these all powerful political and commercial interests through the mainstream press, the thing which is very much part of Bilderberg while simultaneously becoming common policy to governing international forces of seemingly different persuasions. And the controlled debates when dealing with any of these issues literally intended to build unity by resolving differences. And that's how this stuff works. And again it's logical on the one hand, but on the other hand if you actually go into what these people have done over the years - and I can give you some very blatant examples which will make you sit up and wonder - it certainly puts you on notice as to their final intentions of this globalized control.

But again, it's not one world order where you have this one dictator. It's rather the concept of one world company limited, corporations controlling governments as we see today, which is why in Europe, European Central Bank or International Monetary Fund and World Bank, Federal Reserve have a lot more power than governments. And in Spain the President of Spain doesn't preside over anything at all now. I don't think even his household. His wife probably presides over it. But nationally he certainly doesn't do anything because your famous economic troika that comes into Spain and tells him what he has to do, where he has to cut, where he has to nip and tuck. Then you kind of wonder. I didn't elect this guy. I didn't elect any guy because I don't vote. But if I did, I certainly wouldn't vote for this guy. But then again, why vote because in the end what you vote for is irrelevant because somebody unelected comes in from somewhere else and tells the guy you elected or allegedly elected, what he has to do to make you suffer.

Joe: Right. So it exposes the sham of democracy, basically in the western world in particular.

Daniel: Well you know I think the whole thing of democracy is silly. You think of democracy, you think of the Peloponnesian Wars and I think the idea is liberty, which is what you want. Democracy is the rule of the mob. So when you've got 10 white guys beating up on a black lady in southern United States; that was democracy.

Joe: That's democracy.

Daniel: Kicking with their steel toed boots an old Jewish woman in the Polish ghetto, that's barely democracy too, although it's not the kind of democracy I'd vote for.

Joe: Right. The way you describe the Bilderbergers and these other groups, like you just said, they're effectively international think tanks and what think tanks do is they shape and they form government policy around the world. And like you said, these people aren't elected and they're shaping government policy that is directly affecting the people, but the people in most of these countries still hold to this hopelessly naïve idea that they have some power in the sense of they get to elect their Prime Minister and their politicians and they're the people who decide. But you're saying they're not the people who decide. They're told what to do. Policy is formed for them by external people who are never elected and people know nothing about really, don't know about their character, they don't campaign, they don't present themselves to the people as a good candidate or a bad candidate. So there is no democracy in that sense, in the way that people conceive of it, as in direct representation by elected leaders chosen by the people.

Daniel: Well people may not recognize it, but the realities of the world have been living under this oligarchical, imperial structure which you just described, for the past 4,000 years. You first had at some point the Persian Empire, Greece won over that Persian Empire. They could have turned the Attic Sea alliance into an alliance of equal partners but they decided to become an empire instead and this was described by Thucydides in the Peloponnesian War and this was followed by the Roman Empire, then the Byzantine Empire then the Crusades, which were wars on behalf of the Venetian banking system which later on became Bilderberg. Then the Anglo-Dutch Empire which exists since 1763 in various forms until today, again in the form of globalization and the Bilderberg group and in between you have the Synarchists and the Martinists and all that other stuff.

But basically the system hasn't changed. It's the same oligarchical imperial system which has been running the world for many, many years. And if you go even a little bit further back in time, instead of 4,000 years, you go like 6,000 years or you go to ancient Egypt and you ask yourself who ruled Egypt, it wasn't the Pharaohs, that's for sure. They were little boys and girls who basically followed orders and who ruled Egypt. They were the high priests who had the knowledge and they kind of gave it to us a droplet at a time. And those high priests of yesteryears, who lived in Egypt way back then, today live in Switzerland, so that really hasn't changed all that much. And if you know anything about Switzerland, it's the nastiest, dirtiest, filthiest, smelliest country on the face of the earth, for as much as it's pristine mountaintops they may have. I know one or two things about that country. Needless to say, it's the garbage scum of the earth nation if there ever was one. Because again, it's the most corrupt nation, the filthiest nation monetarily and financially on the face of the earth; worse than anything else out there. And of course that all goes back to ancient Egypt.

So no matter how you look at history, and unfortunately people don't know much about history, but if they did, they'd certainly realize that not much has changed since then.

Joe: Yeah, absolutely. We can't argue with that at all. Can you give us a couple of examples that you mentioned previously, that'll make us sit up and take notice about what these people have done?

Daniel: Well I was just thinking of what examples to give you and probably the best example I should give you - there's so many of them - but a good example is the 1973 oil embargo.

Joe: Yeah.

Daniel: If you look at this stuff over the last 60 years, you know Bilderberger's 60 years old this year or in 1954, so it's going to be the 61st year. Since its inception basically the Bilderberg group imposed one of the most profound shifts in economic and nation state policies, the paradigm shift to post-industrial society or economy; your oils shocks, credit card interest rate shocks, forcing the world economy to go to zero and eventually negative growth. And the results of this far-reaching policy today are self-evident. I can't think of a better example than Detroit, which once was the engine of America's economic and industrial and generic growth and today the place kind of looks like this decrepit thing you see in Hollywood films I Am Legend by Will Smith or some zombie film with Brad Pitt, just apocalyptic. And yet this is exactly what it looks like. And the elitists want the entire world to look like that because progress and development is directly proportional to population density.

So people are wondering why would the Rockefellers of this world, the billionaires and the million-million-billionaires who have all the moneys in the world and are basically capitalists, which capitalism allegedly meaning making money, why are they trying to destroy the world's economy. And the reason they're doing this is because again, progress and development is proportional to population density. If you have progress, you have technology and development, you have more people. More people means more mouths to feed. We're living on a small planet with limited natural resources and for the Rockefellers of this world most of us have to die and that's how they look at it.

But going back to my example, in May 1973 the Bilderberg group met at an exclusive resort in Saltsjöbaden, Sweden and the key point of the Bilderberg meeting agenda that year was the oil shock of 1973, which was the 400%...

Niall: Which had yet to happen.

Daniel: Yeah, exactly. The 400% targeted increase in the price of OPEC oil in the near future where actually it did go up 400% six months later. Now if you kind of go back to the time of the critical breakpoint which the British Empire had been working on and tested in the 1960s was the break up Bretton Woods system without which you could have never had the oil hoax of the second part of the '70s. And so beginning in mid-1970s, '73, '74 and extending all the way through the Carter administration to the '79-'80 period, the European oligarchy basically, was intent on breaking up the system that FDR had set in place for post-World War II or that was premised on the decolonization of the planet. That's what Roosevelt wanted to do, break up the British Empire. He knew that they were evil. He wanted to get rid of them.

And so Churchill initially and then British in general, they took serious steps in the mid-to-late 1960s under Harold Wilson's administration in England, to weaken and effectively destroy the Bretton Wood system. And in 1971 Nixon basically pulled the plug on the whole thing altogether. So basically the stage was set to go from the system of fixed exchange rates that gave an advantage to real productive development and investment, and after '71 everything went in favour of speculators. So the oil shock of '73, the 400% targeted increase in oil prices, if you kind of look back and compare those numbers today, I'm sure it actually went beyond 400%. But all that was aimed at launching a systematic process of the looting of the actual productive wealth of all the major nations on the planet. And the Bilderbergers and company, they knew that this increase was coming because they did everything in their power to force the Arabs' hands, to force the embargo on them.

Now the oil hoax, and it was a hoax, ultimately created this enormous volume of wealth transfer, nominally to the OPEC countries in so-called petrodollars. But all that money went to London and Wall Street to be managed so the financial oligarchy in the major centres used the oil hoax to establish an absolute domination of world credit and to make sure it no longer went any development.

Now if you analyze the structure of the hoax in that 1973 period, you have to understand that prior to the Egypt/Israeli war in 1973, oil was priced in long-term deals between nations, for example between the United States and Saudi Arabia, where the price of oil, through the oil company was set at something like $10 a barrel for years. And that would not fluctuate. It was a fixed price. So what happened then, the war was used as a pretext for there to be an oil embargo against the United State and also other western nations that supported Israel. And so to get your oil or their oil, the oligarchy set up a spot market in Rotterdam where the United States and other nations that were on the boycott list would go and buy their oil and they would pay market prices for this and this was the spot market.

And so that's why today you have to understand if you're living in France, you're paying €1.50 for a litre. You're overpaying by about 65% and if you're living in America the same thing. There's something to be said the fact that in Russia oil costs about .60¢ a litre and in Saudi Arabia it's like .o6¢ a litre and in Venezuela I think it's like .06¢ a litre as well. It's the same oil, no matter where you look at it, it's just the price is different.
So basically the discussion during the '72 Bilderberg meeting was not about how "we" as some of the world's most powerful representatives of the world's industrial nations and cartels convince the Arabs not to increase oil prices so dramatically because it's going to hurt our economies. They knew it was going to hurt the economies but they wanted the oil embargo. They wanted the price increases because again, they wanted to de-industrialize America. If you talk about the Rockefellers and the Kissingers and Brzezińskis, they're not American citizens, or American citizens just because they have a passport. They're internationalists, they're globalists, and they're traitors to the nation states that they apparently allegedly represent. And so these people couldn't care less about their country. They talk about this pan-world, this one world company limited which has very little to do with nations. So these people had this meeting knowing that you can have this 400% price hike. They talked about what "we" do with all the petrodollars that will come inevitably to London and New York banks from the Arab/OPEC oil revenues.

So by basically manipulating the price of oil you can manipulate the development of the third world, which was beginning to look at if it could grow into significant competition. And this is what happened in Africa. You had so many African nations in the 1970s after they recovered their independence and they were getting back on their feet, they were pulling themselves by the proverbial bootstraps and they were beginning to make deals with Russia and China and all these other nations, and they looked like they were going to be independent countries. And so by pushing the oil price through the stratosphere, 400% increase from $3.50 a barrel to $11.60 a barrel, it destroyed these countries, just brought them back to nothings again.

And so this oil price jumping by 400% by January 1974, and again I showed in my book, which was part of the Bilderberg Group, there was a document which was kindly given to me by William Engdahl, an American economist. This document, which he obtained from his Bilderberger sources, they were talking about, I think it's on page 65, how they say the price of oil is right now is $3.50 a barrel. We want it to go somewhere between $10.00 and $12.50 barrel. So six months later it went to $11.65. I'd say that's right in the middle. So people that are saying that all this Bilderberg stuff is a conspiracy theory, you kind of look at them and say "You really don't know anything about how the world works." I kind of got off-topic for a bit.

So the price shock immediately halted growth in Europe. It smashed the industrialization of the development countries in the third world and it tilted the power balance back in the direction of London, Wall Street and the dollar system. The orchestrated oil hoax of '73/'74, with its introduction of financial speculation in the oil market via the spot market, it created this huge pool of petrodollars with which the city of London could wage war against Asia. And then they used it to fund operations to transform the United States from within, including the takeover of the US banking system and the cartelization, under the euphemism of mergers and acquisitions, that's the term that they used back then, corporate America. Basically Wall Street was transferred into this giant casino where betting on financial instruments replaced investing and the connection to reality was just severed.

So these petrodollars, combined with the process of the British Empire's doping, the drug trade, were instrumental in restructuring Wall Street in the '70s and paving the way for the junk bonds of the 1980s and the derivatives and markets of the 1990s and the complete destruction and the annihilation of the financial system today, and that's what we have. So when the price of oil skyrocketed, that's when the huge pool of dollars began building up in Europe that formed the Euro dollar market and began this whole process of creating this financial empire as financial warfare operation, basically, against the nation states and in favour of Wall Street. And so basically the globalization was underway and it's still underway today.

This speculative bubble came to dominate American and world economics and feeding it became paramount and leads to one thing and another. Real estate prices shot up and they gave false wealth to these individuals who could turn it to mortgage debt, etc. etc. And before you know it you have this derivatives market which ultimately exploded and they falsely portrayed it as a subprime crisis but in reality it was the death throes of the financial system itself, and again it was all orchestrated at these private, very secretive meeting again, progress and development of society is proportional to population density so you have to make sure if you're the elitists controllers that the people, you and I, the great unwashed as they call us, would never have real wealth. It's a symbol; wealth. It's something that's there but it's not there. It can be taken away from us at any moment and we've seen so much of it in so many different countries. Argentina comes to mind. And Russia comes to mind in the 1990s.
So no matter how you look at it, the solutions taken by the speculators in the markets and the big players basically and banks are destroying nation states and they're supposed to be destroyed. That's why Detroit is what it is. It's not coming back. It's not supposed to come back. It's a prototype for what the elite want the rest of the world to look like. I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to live in a world where everything looks like Detroit.

Joe: Certainly not, no. So have you ever gotten an insight or an idea into what motivates these people to do this, fundamentally? Do they have a plan or is it just greed for greed's sake?

Daniel: Oh, no, no, it's very well planned. You can't pull this off if you're talking about greed. There is something that they've been planning for a very, very long time. Bilderberg has been around for 60 years and they've been at it for 60 years. But the idea itself, of destroying nation states, it goes much further than that. Bilderberg again is a name which everyone understands as kind of a system of control. That's why I kind of talked about it. But again, Bilderbergers, they've discussed this whole thing of controlling and creating this society one world company limited. George Ball talked about this back in 1968 and again it's very, very interesting because it just gives you an idea how this stuff works, destroying countries and creating this corporation.

And this isn't something you do on an off-chance. It's very, very well planned out because the idea again is that according to them, this is how they sold it to us, is that nation states are outmoded, they're an arcane form of government. In the Malthusian world they can be relied on to do whatever needs to be done because again the tendency is that the resources of a nation, if you are a nation state, belong to a nation. Or if you're a Bilderberg, the resources of the nation state don't belong to a nation, they've got to be equitably distributed amongst the people who control the world.

To do that effectively, they needed to create a new form of government and they called this form of government a corporation. That's why they call it the world company and the idea would be that this world company would then become the new government. And if you kind of look at globalization, that's exactly what this is. And then beginning in the late 1960s, '70s and '80s, the United States and the rest of the world was literally taken over, this rational merger, this ever-larger consolidation of industrial companies, of agricultural companies and financial companies and they were slowly building these giant cartels to the point where we see now today these giant cartels which control the resources of the world. Effectively they run the world; the bankers who run the corporations, the corporate cartels and the cartels controlling the necessities of life. They're more powerful than the nation states themselves. So this whole world company project, in a sense, is a return to the old days of the British East Indian Company with a more modern computerized face, I guess you could say.

And again, if you kind of sit back and think about it, these people, the Bilderbergers and such, and others like them, they've actually done what they've announced they would do 50 years ago and I'd be scared if I didn't know better because again, for these people, the very structure of the nation states, the idea of common wealth or of general welfare people represented, the main obstacle against any attempt to freely rule the planet and represented the most important impediment to the creation of a neo-colonial world empire. In other words, as I said, the resources don't belong to a country, they belong to everyone. And that's something that they couldn't simply live with, knowing that countries were going to protect their resources.

If you look at the economies of the world, how all this stuff works and this corporatization, the regimentation and mobilization of the state, including its credit and financial resources, to carry out policies that are dictated by and implemented for the benefit of a financial oligarchy in the past decades. The entire de-regulation policy of the United States industries and banking was precisely set up in response to this blueprint scenario for creating giant corporations for a new empire whose intention is nothing short of perpetual war. And that's unfortunately how a lot of stuff works.

Joe: So I'm just trying to get to an idea of what motivates these people. I kind of suggested it was just greed, but it's kind of amazing to think of that since most of the people we're talking about here are massively wealthy by any normal person's standards. They have more money than they could ever spend. So why would anybody...

Daniel: It's not about money or financial wealth. It has nothing to do with financial wealth at all because they already control not only money, they already control 90% of the planet earth. It has to do with perpetuating their power. It has to do with immortality. And immortality to them is not dying and having somebody putting a plaque and their name in the middle of the square. Immortality is a different concept. Immortality, I talk about it in my last book TransEvolution-The Coming Age of Human Deconstruction where I basically explain how the whole concept of the future of humanity has very little to do with what we are today.

The fact is that we're living through this change of parenting greyness, changing of parenting within the history of mankind and the fact that the future generations will not look anything like us physically. Our children who are six, seven years old today, they are the last truly 100% human generation of human beings on the planet earth. Our grandchildren are going to be transhuman, they're going to be post-human, they're going to be machines, and they're going to be cyborgs, human beings who are not totally human as the result of revolution in synthetic biology. So to be elitist, the idea of immortality is different. They don't care what physically they look like. That's what drives them. It's not the money. Because the difference between them and us is they have this little machine that can print it and we don't. So they can print all the money they want in the world and we can't. So once we run out the hundred dollar bill we have for the rest of the month, we don't have any more hundred dollar bills, but they can just print another one, you know what I mean? And for them this has very little to do with their final objectives.

Their final objectives is physical immortality and the idea of one being able to download their consciousness onto a computer and live in cyberspace forever in another state but retaining their consciousness because of these incredible technological developments we're going through right now.

So what drives them is this. Again, if you look at Bilderberg, and that's why I'm hesitant when people say to me "Oh, you've discovered the end all and be all of conspiracies". I did not. If some day I do I'll be like 10,000 years old because I haven't even scratched the surface because this stuff is a circus. That's what it is, a goddamn circus. But the fact is, is that there's just so much stuff out there, so many societies, so many organization. It's just amazing when you start looking at all these individuals and corporations and people and how deep the rabbit hole goes and just how much is there to investigate and to get at and how little we know about really the uttermost secrets of the world we live in.

Niall: But Daniel, are you suggesting that they want to sort of genetically modify the masses or they want to genetically modify themselves to extend their existence? To extend their life?

Daniel: Well their life extension is immortality. But I also believe in the concept of immortality. For me, in 2010 I went to Cuba and I met Fidel Castro. He read my book on the Bilderberg group and he loved it and he wanted to meet me, so he invited me to Cuba and I spent a week being his guest. In my 3-1/2 hour meeting that I had with Castro, I said to him "Commandante, how do you understand immortality?" And he started talking about Karl Marx and Lenin and all this nonsense and I kind of looked at him funny I guess at one point and he kind of stopped because he realized that I wasn't a Cuban lackey who was just going to sit and eat it all up.

And so he said "Okay, how do you understand immortality?" And I said to him "You know, I see immortality as a whole concept of immortality, assuring the survival of the species which means that there's going to come a point where we're going to have to colonize space because if you start extrapolating our presence on the planet earth into the future, a 100 years or 1,000 years, 10,000 years, we're simply not going to have enough space and certainly not enough resources to survive. So we're going to have to conquer space. So the idea is a billion years from now, we want to have gazillions of people living in all the nooks and corners of the galaxy and that's immortality, as far as I am concerned. It's an extension of life through others who'll be living our life. We'll become immortal because we have contributed enough to the growth of society, to the knowledge of society, to our divine spark of reason." And it's just a very different way of understanding immortality from what they understand immortality because to them immortality is a metaphysical concept.

For me, I don't believe in god and even if I did, I couldn't tell you if there is a god or not. I was never there. He never talked to me, so I can cross myself a hundred times a day or a thousand times a day, but there's no guarantee I'm going to go to heaven or hell. It doesn't matter when I'm dead. But I am sure, just what I said, the whole idea of immortality is that it's the extension of us as people through others, our children and our grandchildren and so on and so forth, the embodiment of immortality. These secret societies go back thousands of years, pass knowledge from grandfather to father, father to son, son to grandson, so on and so forth, which was only accessible to very small groups of people. And then what happened today, after all these thousands of years, as a result of information evolution and you ask anybody, a Secoya Indian sitting in the middle of an Amazon rainforest on a tree now, in a tree, with his computer laptop and internet connection and he has access through Google to almost the same information, all the secret societies over thousands and thousands of years and basically being able to cobble together.

And so the elites are saying "Hell, what are we going to do now? These people, the great unwashed, these moglies have almost as much knowledge as we do." And so what they're doing on the one hand is again, these are intricate games, but they're kind of fun to watch, if you don't have to play a part in them, as we do, it's not very fun to watch. But on the one hand, what they're doing is they're destroying the world's economy on purpose and you're seeing it right now. Detroit is a good example. The de-industrialization, zero growth, destruction. Well 40 years later, here we are. They're talking about the next 40 years, human destruction.

So on the one hand, destroying the human progress. But on the other hand, they're investing gazillions of dollars of their enormous, immense wealth into these futuristic technologies that are so advanced, so far beyond anything we can possibly imagine. I don't care how fertile our imagination is, we can't even imagine a lot of these things, which makes the gap between them and us bigger than ever and if you're a keen observer of reality, you look at Hollywood, which is an industry controlled by these people, you kind of realize that all these Hollywood, futuristic films, science fiction based loosely - I talked about Almost Human, a TV series, which was great, but only aired one year where you had humans and cyborgs working together as police officers in the year 2040. It was a great series. There was so much stuff in that series which dealt with very real things which are happening right now; Transcendence, which was an awful film with what's-his-name, I can't remember, the guy who played Edward Scissorhands. I can't remember his name. Johnny Depp.

Niall: Yeah, Johnny Depp.

Daniel: And this other film which is coming our right now, or came out a few months ago. I haven't seen it yet. It'll be Interstellar, where they talk about planet Earth running out of food, where you're talking about Elysium, which came out last summer where you had this synthetic planet built between the moon and earth where the wealthy live and the rest of us live here. It's the kind of stuff we're seeing the divide between them and us.

Joe: Have you seen the Hunger Games?

Daniel: Yeah, I saw the Hunger Games. It's dystopic.

Joe: Yeah, but that's the same thing, right?

Daniel: It's the same thing. It's lesser than what I saw, what it is because it's very predictable and then it's kind of sheepishly stupid but the idea is the same; this fight for food. And there is a fight for food. And even things like GI Joe II where it's not an actual film, but it's interesting because it started out with these tiny insects which were electronically equipped and basically go off and blew up and killed all the GI Joes except for two or three which of course came back and kicked the ass of all the bad guys later in the film. But the point is that it just goes to show you how advanced technology is. There's another film and it hasn't come out, it's called Prototype, but if you kind of go to YouTube and type prototype, it had like 200 million views, this trailer. This guy's trying to get the money to make the film. But while there's an element of good, this merger of men and robot, and machines. There's another film that just came out.

There's a lot of stuff out there that's coming out. And of course Hollywood is so much part of this Illuminati, and I do say Illuminati because they're real. It's not some kind of a surreal conspiracy theory. But the point is that if you kind of pay attention to what's out there, you realize how little fiction there is in science fiction and how real a lot of this stuff is and how dead set the elitists are of creating this parallel world.

For me the best example and the scariest example, perhaps the stupidest of all is 2012. I don't know if you saw it, where the Mayan prophesy...

Joe: Oh yeah.

Daniel: It's just a godawful film. But there was a scene in that film and it kind of jarred me into realizing just how real the possibility of that happening is, where the world has gone to hell in a handbasket, they're literally minutes away from imploding or exploding, and you have all these Noah's arks built by these billionaires where only the wealthiest of the wealthy who at a billion dollars a piece could go on these ships. You have the queen of England and these billionaires, and Arab sheiks and their families and little dogs going as well. I don't know if big dogs got on half price.

But certainly you look at all these people, while the rest of humanity, all of us, are going to hell literally. A few, I don't know ten thousand, a hundred thousand, being saved because they can. And I thought that was powerful because if you kind of look at what's happening now, and you look at some of the ideas, not ideas. I can't think of a word, some of the projects in motion currently and one of them is 2018 Mars One with Dutch private expedition and that's a ship full of people to Mars on a one way trip, and expedition, basically to be pioneers. They'll live there and they'll die there. And the Russians and European space agency, they're doing the same thing, preparing a one way trip to Mars by the year 2023.

And so we're getting a lot of play in the media for these projects and people are saying "Wow, these people are not coming back". But I have a different take on it. I think that - call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but a lot of this stuff is based on observations which over the years have always proved to be right on. If they're talking about this and they're playing it up in the media, the fact that you're going to have the Dutch sending a ship to Mars and the Russian and European space agency are sending ships to Mars, what's there for us to think or not to think if the elitists away from the spotlight will also be going to Mars without us knowing that they're going to Mars? If that's the case my question is what is it they know that we don't? What's going to happen between now and 2018 or 2023? And if they are leaving, does that meant that this planet is finished? Does that mean that something is going to happen to us?

Because with today's technology, especially nanotech, if you're talking about real technologies and not talking about nuclear weapons which is past history, past terms, past tense and futuristic technology is so much more powerful than anything nuclear could ever possibly imagine. The next step is fission fusion. I'm getting off topic but the point is that the survival of the fittest and the immortality that these people understand as such, has very little to do with how we understand it. I guess I could have said this 20 minutes ago (laughing).

Joe: No, it's good to flesh out the ideas. But just on the idea of elite all taking off to Mars, I would drive them to the spaceport, and see them off. It's kind of interesting though if they think that they're going to go to Mars or something because the planet's screwed and it's going downhill, but as soon as they leave it starts getting better and then they go "Oh let's come back. It's not so bad anymore." But as soon as they come back it starts going to hell again. (Daniel laughing) They might eventually figure it out after a few turns.

Daniel: You know, I hear this a lot. It's like "Why would we want to conquer space? We've screwed up one planet, and we're going to do the same in other planets." It's not like that at all. It's the fact that you do have some nasty individuals who are destroying everything in sight, but humanity, we're not like that as people. But the point is that space, it's the final frontier. It also has all the natural resources that we need to survive on earth, beginning with helium 3 isotope which is the cleanest, natural source of energy we could possibly want to have and we can't have it on planet Earth because we have atmosphere and it's something that can't get through the atmosphere, but it's something that deposited over millions of years on other planets out there that don't have atmospheres.

So if you go to the moon, for example, you can just scoop it up, literally, with your hand and you have enough on the surface of the moon to supply the next level of energy for everyone on the planet for the next 2,000 years. And again, it's the cheapest, cleanest and the best and the longest lasting. And so we've gone from wood to carbon to oil, to nuclear energy. The next step in the development is fusion fission and we need to go that direction in development because if we ever want to go to Mars within a reasonable period of time, we'll need a different kind of propulsion system than what we have today because if we go today it's going to take us, without getting into too many details, basically need about 300 days to get to Mars from planet Earth, to the orbit.

And because of the problem of gravitation when we get there, we're basically looking at a jellybean man with eyes. And that's not good for our bones. But the point is if we are using fusion fission we actually can go to Mars in about four days, which needless to say makes a very big difference and it's an amazing source of energy and we need to get it, plus all the other stuff out there, the asteroids and everything else from water, to gold to platinum, to diamonds, and everything else, everything in space, absolutely everything on planet Earth. We're running out of natural resources and that's what we have to realize. And one of the biggest, most important natural resources we're running out of is fresh water.
And India, for example is a good example. There's 1.3 billion people and they're almost out of water and when you run out of water it's bottoms up; the game is up. It all goes back to the same thing, it's the equitable development of the planet, the control by the people who run the world from behind the scenes who have been running the world from behind the scenes, not since the Victorian times but since prehistoric times, from the times of the Great Pyramids and Egyptian Pharaohs and the same nasty individuals who ran the world back then, they still run the world today and that hasn't changed at all.

Niall: Daniel, what's your take on so-called climate change; manmade, elite made, natural or just irrelevant? I ask because I know there was some kind of cheat sheet or set of notes leaked from a recentish Bilderberg meeting.

Joe: Three or four years ago, yeah.

Niall: ...Yeah. What was it Joe?

Joe: They had in the list posted in the UK Guardian website, the topics to be explored at 2008 Bilderberg, maybe. It was in Spain, somewhere near Barcelona.

Niall: Sitges.

Joe: Sitges, in Barcelona. And they had a list of...

Daniel: Yeah, Sitges. The whole thing...

Joe: But the list. Hang on. Let me just finish on the list. The reason we're asking this is because on the list amongst the other things they had listed for a topic of discussion, one of them was global cooling, not global warming.

Daniel: Well this is exactly it. There's no such thing right now as global warming. We're in the middle of a period of global cooling. It's a 100,000 year cycle and right now we're smack in the middle of a global cooling period which is why in a lot of places, like Canada for example right now, my family lives in Canada - last year and this year you had some of the nastiest, coldest winters on record. So all this stuff about global warming is nonsense. If you kind of look at who supports these organization, you look at the World Wildlife Fund, Greenpeace. All these organizations when they're talking about the Club of Rome, it's the same thing. It hasn't changed forever. The whole point of all these organizations where you're dealing with them is de-industrialization of society so that you can reduce progress, if you can reduce growth, it just makes it a whole lot easier to control progress and growth of society.

If you go back a little bit to the role of the Club of Rome, back in the '70s, just combine this scientific nonsense which they advocate, the stuff about reducing technology and reducing growth, they came out of a document Limits to Growth, basically showed that the earth was going to run out of limited resources over the next 40 years. Well 40 years later we haven't run out of anything at all. We have run out of a lot of resources but we have so much of it out there in space we don't need to talk about or discuss this.

And so basically according to the Club of Rome, this report Limits to Growth, in order for humanity to survive, mankind must reduce its dependence on technology, rollback as a drive for progress, technological innovation and advancements and impose a worldwide regime of economic controlled disintegration, which is what we have today. So organizations like WWF and Greenpeace, that's what they are. It's this scientific nonsense, hocus pocus kind of stuff how we spoil our natural resources with a sophisticated mathematical language and they convince the simple person it has to be the case.

But a lie, even one enveloped in a mathematical complexity is no less scientific nonsense and stupidity. What the Club Rome did was simply an extension of what would become the world's economy extending existing parameters of the economy without technological progress. Now obviously if one removes that which enables them to have an economy and the human being, if that was eliminated, left out of the equation, well we suddenly discover that we're depleting our natural resources. And so this mumbo-jumbo, this planet will reach a limit according to them, and therefore we must have a population control which leads to a demographic reduction. And so the role of the Club of Rome was simply to spread and popularize this scientific stupidity with the idea to convince the unwary, and especially young people, to give some kind of scientific base to profoundly anti-human concepts of the oligarchy. And the concept is that "you human beings are just animals, complicated but nonetheless animals, and nothing more than animals." And to them, environmentalist movement equals to green equals to de-industrialization, equals to zero growth, equals to population reduction, equals to genocide.

It's not surprising that the people who basically ran these organizations, like WWF or Prince Bernhard, the Nazi who was the President of the Bilderberg group and then Prince Philip, the consort to the queen of England, who if he ever came back to earth and reincarnated, he wanted to be reincarnated as a deadly virus that would wipe out the entire world's population. That's what he said. But again, all this kind of stuff is utter nonsense and if you look at these organizations such as WWF and 1001 Club, it's a kind of oligarchical funding mechanism to destroy the world's economy. What these people are not saying to you is that our greatest natural resource that has no limits is our mind.

Niall: Yeah.

Daniel: And the fact is that there are 7 billion people, or 70 billion people, 700 billion people, we have the ability to discover universal principles of nature and these principles of nature, because of this divine spark of reason. And these universal principles of nature, once they're discovered, they improve the lives of everybody on the planet, proving of space against nature, which immediately improves everybody's well being for everyone and that's progress and development.

So if you eliminate that element, if you give 7 billion people a lobotomy - well some of them don't need a lobotomy, they've been lobotomized since birth - but those of us who do use our divine spark of reason once in a while, the point is that you lobotomize the entire population and then what you have is exactly what WWF professes; this misuse and depletion. But the world is not like that. The world is different because there is such a thing as progress and development of society, invention and technology and that's why we need to technologically develop because there's going to come a point in the history of development of society where we're going to have so many people that unless we have the technology we won't be able to support life on the planet. And so we eliminate the industrialized society, we turn everything into Detroit, you're going to have a collapse in population base and this is what they want.

This is why beginning in the 1960s people such as Prince Philip, the Duke of Edinburgh and the Bolsh-Nazis, they created this warm environmental movement, a kind of a counter-culture of social base beginning to be built up as a means to create the appearance of a mass social movement. It was simply the oligarchy pushing the same old piece of population genocidal garbage, which they've tried to push on us for I don't know how long now. This is just another good example of how Bilderberg and these societies work because again, when you talking about Bilderberg or Council of Foreign Relations, the Club of Rome, they're all united, they all work together because the people who are members of these organizations are members of Bilderberg and the Trilateral Commission and all these other think tanks and foundations.

Niall: It seems strange to me though that if they're thinking in this long-term way about depopulation, or at least controlling a forced depopulation, and if that would be the ultimate goal, that throughout this whole time they've been thinking and working towards something like that, the population of the planet has actually exploded.

Daniel: Well, it hasn't exploded but it's certainly bigger than ever, that's for sure because they've tried to kill us off so many times in so many different ways and even in the black plague epidemic back 1345 when we had half of Europe wiped out as a result of this first big economic meltdown, when the banks went down and the whole thing was orchestrated by the Venetian black nobility. But even back then the population did drop a little bit. But basically what has happened, and this is what they're working so hard to eliminate, is that beginning with the Council of Florence in 1436-39 period, you had, especially beginning in France, a different concept of humanity, basically modern history replaced medieval history and it replaced medieval history on institutions which were part of the modern history put in place. Basically as a result of Council of Florence, France became the most important nation in the world until after the Napoleonic times; the progress and development of society, constitution, social welfare and commonwealth. All these concepts were developed and put forward in France with Louis XI and as a result of that France became, as I said, the number one nation militarily, economically, culturally, spiritually, physically and the British Empire had to create this first real nasty in history, which is Napoleon Bonaparte. It's not like he was an agent of Britain, but they certainly understood his psychology very well and it pushed the right buttons and they knew that he would eventually self-destruct, and he did.

And so they created the terror which wiped out all the intellectuals in France. That was also a creation of the British Empire, the whole thing of the seizure of the Bastille. That was all nonsense because the idea was that the French intellectuals like Lafayette and Bailly, the idea was to export the French constitution to the United States, or the French ideals to the United States, have the United States create and build up the ideal there and then import it back into Europe for the purposes of wiping out all the royal families. And so England, with the Venetian nobility who basically became them at the time, they took over the operation and they created this character. Because if you kind of go back and think to the end of the 1700s, the beginning of the 1800s, the British empire had one enemy, that was France, which was a more powerful nation state than the empire.
And then after the Napoleonic adventures France was destroyed, Europe was completely wiped out and the only nation standing was the British empire and all these other nations were against France who until very recently, at that time was the number one country in the world and didn't have any enemies to speak of.

And so all these shenanigans which, way back then they were kind of controlled by the British Empire, today they're still controlled by the empire except that they've kind of reorganized themselves a bit and they have these other organizations and offshoots and think tanks. But the system hasn't changed. You can talk about Wall Street which is basically American only in name. It's a British creation. It was founded and put together by the British and it's still a British creation. So again, history is kind of an amazing thing if you think about it.

I guess all this stuff that we're talking about, people who listen and the people who read my books and they suddenly realize that all these things that they kind of secretly thought were true but they couldn't really explain, now they can say "Hey, this is cool. I can talk about this." And I guess this is what my book and now hopefully my film will do, is make it cool to talk about this stuff.

Joe: Daniel, we have a caller on the line, so I'm just going go ahead and take it. Hi Greg?

Greg: Yeah, Greg calling from Nashville.

Joe: Hi Greg. Welcome to the show. Do you have a question or comment for us?

Greg: I guess a bit of a comment. First of all thank you for the conversation. More people would like to know what it is that you're talking about and obviously Bilderberg is a huge piece. And I'll just say this: when I call into a radio show I try to remember a very simple maxim "Do no harm" or "Don't criticize". It's hard to remember that because people get jumpy and they want to say "You need this" and "You need that" and what I'm hearing, and I'm not attacking anyone, is I'm hearing the past problem and I'm hearing the present problem. But what I'm not hearing is individual solutions because what I have done is spent most of my life gathering information and cataloguing the atrocities of these people that are currently basically running the show. And I understand that there's a very important place for that. That needs to happen because most of the people in this world have no idea what you're talking about and they have no idea of the ramifications of what you're revealing to them. But I try to really bring it down to the least common denominator and I don't mean less of human intelligence. I just simply mean, if I'm hearing this for the first time and I've never been exposed to what you're telling me and how important it is, what I want to hear is what am I going to do to change the problem? And I'm not hearing any of that. I've been listening for at least an hour now. Can you comment on that please?

Joe: Alright.

Daniel: Yeah. First of all turn off the television. That's the best advice I can give you. It's crap and especially mainstream press. They've never worked for us and never will work for us. So anything you get from the media and the mainstream press is just mind-boggling nonsense. So turn off the TV and start thinking critically, start thinking platonically and theocratically, meaning abstract thinking, extrapolating, ask yourself questions, who's doing what to who and why they're doing this.

And also empowerment. Make sure that this kind of stuff gets out there, that people can talk to each other. But again, to do this, you have to make sure that you explain it in a way that everybody can understand because one of the things I hear often when we're talking about conspiracies is the Bilderbergs order the President to do this. And of course any normal person's going to say "Well how the hell did they do that? How did some guy sitting in an office in the middle of, I don't know, Rome, order the President of the United States to do something?" And of course they can't explain it because it all sounds like nonsense which is why again it's very important, what you're doing is obviously fantastic if you catalogue all this stuff. That's amazing.

It's important to understand who these people are. It's important to know their names so when you watch on television these countless faces and unless their called Kim Kardashian or Obama, we don't know who most of them are. But we must know them because there's greased, grey individuals in flannel suits who kind of parade in front of TV screens and make pronouncements and then we don't even realize that this is the guy who runs the European Central Bank or this is the man who is the key commissioner in European Commission on foreign intelligence and this is the man who pushes money in the Federal Reserve. Know the names of these people. Know what they do. Understand that this is real. Get as much information as you can. Turn off the television. Be a human being and most importantly, whatever you do, make sure that you work towards the future of humanity because life doesn't end with us. We are here for a purpose, and I'm not talking from a religious point of view. I'm talking from a metaphysical point of view, the point of view that as long as we live, we have an obligation to do good for humanity. And that's I think one of the biggest maxims one can live by.

Joe: What do you think of that Greg?

Greg: I think that was excellently put. I love it. Turn off the television. That's probably one of the things that I tell people is the most important. If there's poison coming into your body you need to stop the flow of the poison and television is the biggest source. Think critically, beautiful advice. Empowerment obviously and that's part of what this show is about.

Joe: Greg, I just wanted to say something on that point. When you mentioned that most people in the world have never heard any of this information and it doesn't really mean anything to them and they've been kind of programmed; they get their daily dose of reality from the media and a lot of them like it that way and they would be incredulous about this information and the kinds of things we talk about. They don't believe it. It's almost like it's not for them. I've kind of come to the conclusion that the majority of people on the planet that the kind of stuff that interests you and me and Daniel and other people listening, is kind of for us and not for other people, if you know what I mean. There are different types of people and some people just want a simple, ordinary life where they're not challenged, they aren't forced to think outside the box, they don't want to feel a sense of responsibility for changing the world; that that's what our leaders are for, etc. And I really do think that there are people who you can't change in that way.

So it's kind of like banging your head against a brick wall for anybody to try and think that they can change those masses of humanity in any fundamental way or bring them up to "our level". The more I look at the way the world is going and the people in power in this world and what they're doing and how little power ordinary people have, even us who know a lot of what's going on, how little power we have to effect any change, I more and more find myself falling back into the role of - almost as if my purpose here is to be an anthropologist studying the dynamics on planet earth within the human population and kind of document it, put it out there publicly, do your bit. There's a lot of compassion for all of the evils and wrongs that are happening in the world, but it's tempered by an understanding that we can't do much about it.

And that's why I tend to fall back into "Well I'm just going to observe, watch the show as it goes down, be amazed and horrified as well at many of the things that happen." And then where it goes? I don't pretend to have any power to change it and I'm not sure there's a large enough group of people on the planet who would be able to get this information to be able to change it. The people in power have such control over things that it's going to go the way they want it to go, with the caveat though, that the planet itself seems to react to stuff that's going on, on the planet at a human level. We've seen a massive increase over the past few years in things like fireball and meteorites. We had that explosion over Russia last year, over Chelyabinsk, the incidences of volcanoes, earthquakes, tornadoes happening all over the place. The planet on an ecological level and on a climate level, seems to be reacting to the weird, negative stuff that is happening at a human level.

So that's a factor that I think should be remembered as well, that to a certain extent the planet has its own consciousness and it reacts in its own way to things that are going on.

Greg: It does and I think you made a very beautiful point in terms of what you said about a big number of people either not wanting to be reached or unable to be reached and if you're listening and you happen to be a teacher or a purveyor of this type of information, I think that's very critical that you hear and understand that. I happen to be a teacher of this type of information and the bottom line is simply this; if I get into a mode of "I need to save these people" that is the wrong way to come into this. I've been there. I've beat my head on the wall. "There's 7 billion people and I need to save as many as possible." No! No! If you have one conversation with one human being and it doesn't mean that I change or turn them, it simply means maybe they look at something a little bit differently. Maybe they stop doing something that was destructive to them and they see things in a slightly different light, it's okay. I'm not out to save anyone, not to save anyone, just simply to know whatever the truth is for me, is to share it with other people. That's all I can do. And if it falls on deaf ears, it's okay. I'm not a proponent of the text known as the bible, but there is a little bit of wisdom. "Don't cast your pearls to swine." People that aren't listening or don't want to hear stuff, stop talking to them. And talk to people who do want to hear.

Niall: Amen.

Greg: Thanks so much for you radio show. I appreciate it.

Joe: Thanks for your call Greg.

Daniel: Listen, I know we have just a couple of minutes left. I wanted to just mention my fundraiser on the Bilderberg document if I may.

Joe: Yep.

Daniel: As I said earlier in the show, the documentary is coming out in theatres all over the world at the end of May, early June, and we're just on the last final stages of getting the post-production done and over with over the next couple of weeks and we're bringing some top experts on graphic design and animation just to make this a little bit better than it is and it's already an amazing film. We have a lot of interest from international film festivals, etc. So what we've done is I've started a fundraising campaign, a crowd funder called rockethub. And if you can help us out just a little bit, $5, $10. If we get 2,000 people we can have more than enough money to finish it. It's already a $200,000 film which we have funded ourselves over the past four years, so it's not some pipsqueak little project. No, it's a very big project. And we just need another $20,000 about, to get this done. So if you can, go to rockethub, type in Bilderberg, it's going to take you to the page and donate. You get some nice prizes as a compensation, but most importantly, you're helping a very, very good cause, it's not just the film itself. This year Ed Snowden won the Oscar as a result of Citizenfour and he certainly deserves it.

But this whole thing about social awareness and people becoming aware on a global level of what's going on around us, you can certainly help us next year with getting the information about and out on the Bilderbergers themselves. So if you can, go to rockethub, type in Bilderberg, go to the page and help us out. Again, we'll be very, very appreciative and you can also see the two minute trailer of the film which we did a few weeks back and you'll be very, very surprised at just how awesome it looks.

Joe: Okay, definitely. So that's rockethub, but is it linked on your website? Your website's danielesulin.com, right?

Daniel: Yeah, if they want to follow me, the easiest way to follow me is through my twitter account. It's @estulindaniel. That's my twitter account, @estulindaniel. But it's not on my web page, it's on my twitter account.

Joe: Twitter. Okay.

Daniel: But they can certainly just go to rockethub and just type in the name.

Joe: Okay. Excellent. Well Daniel we're going to let you go. Thanks a million for being on. It's been a very interesting conversation to say the least.

Daniel: It was an interesting conversation. We've certainly touched on the subject, which I haven't talked about for a while. We've been talking about other stuff and right now we're doing a lot of promo because I was just nominated for Nobel Peace Prize and that's one of the things I forgot to mention. I actually did forget to mention it.

Joe: Wow.

Daniel: Yes, and so there's a lot of interest...

Joe: You're up there with Obama.

Daniel: Unfortunately. Any nomination of that name. But the point is that, as a result of all the work I've done in the last 20 years of exposing these people to the light of day and so I was nominated about month ago and it's a great honour because some amazing people were nominated over the last century. Obama's not one of them. But the point is we're doing a lot interesting things about current stuff and it's nice to talk about Bilderberg once in a while as well because are the kinds of things I don't talk about very much simply because I've moved on to other, I think more interesting areas of investigation. But I think we certainly touched on some key ideas which hopefully will get people interested in the subject of Bilderberg itself.

Joe: Yeah, well I hope win the Nobel Peace Prize. It'll be some well-deserved publicity. Just because Obama won it doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Daniel: I know it wasn't.

Joe: If you're sending the right message.

Daniel: It's not the point.

Joe: The nomination could be enough.

Daniel: Exactly.

Joe: Alright Daniel, thanks again.

Daniel: I'm going to say that again one last time, rockethub/Bilderberg. Help us out. Thank you.

Joe: Alright.

Niall: Take care.

Joe: Bye-bye. Greg you're still on.

Greg: Yeah and I say this with all due absolutely respect for your previous gentleman who just spoke. All I can say is wow! Everything I said and all I heard from him was a promotion for fundraising. I'm floored. I'm completely floored and my next comment is simply this; how is higher awareness of Bilderberg activity going to lessen the fact that the Bilderbergs meet and do and influence the world in the way that they do?

Joe: Well for me anyway, I write quite a lot and what we do here is - apart from this radio show we have other areas or venues that we use to talk about what's going on in the world. And we have no intention or no expectation that we're going to change any of it. What we're doing is simply talking to the people who are listening to us, and reminding them that the world is a pretty screwed up place. It's run by a bunch of psychopaths in power and that they shouldn't allow themselves to be lulled into a false sense of security or calm or peace or forced to turn their face away or to be distracted by...

Niall: Or to misplace their hope.

Joe: ...or to misplace hope. Yeah, all that kind of stuff. To be fair to Daniel, I don't think he was promoting this stuff all the way through. He was talking very quickly about an awful lot of stuff. It was just at the end. But he had asked if he could promote what he's doing because that's fair enough. It's an equal exchange as far as we're concerned. But just on the point that he's talking about, like talking about Bilderberger, you could ask the same question of us or anybody else.

Why do we write about the evils of NATO and their warmongering and their slaughter of Muslims in Iraq and Libya and Syria? We're not going to stop them doing that, but we feel it from a conscience point of view that we have to actually speak up in whatever way we can, publicly, about that because it's wrong. It's a simple right versus wrong thing and to remind those people that are watching and listening that this is what's happening, that this is what's going on. It hasn't gone away. The world hasn't transformed into some peaceful Utopia yet, it's actually getting worse and worse.
As to what people should do about that? For me, I can talk to people about what they can or can't do, but none of it's based on the idea we can change any of it necessarily, at least not in a physical way.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: We're not going to get our day in court with these warmongers. But what's important for these people is to simply keep watching, to keep observing, keep looking at what's going on. Don't turn your face away. Recognize the suffering. I don't know where it goes from there, but at the very least that's what you have to do.

Greg: I'm glad you said that. It's so powerful what you said. This isn't about getting your day in court because that's the 3D world. That's the illusion. That's the system.

Joe: Right.

Niall: Yeah.

Greg: That's what the Bilderbergs have built and I love that because a lot of people still believe that their justice will come in court and that's the den of vipers and that's where they operate.

Joe: Right!

Niall: It'll come in court or it'll come in revolution or regime change or whatever. No it won't.

Greg: Thank you. And let me just ask you, this is just an offshoot thing. It's been a long time since I bumped into these two fellows and they have a good place in the world. What's your opinion, just generally speaking, of an Alex Jones or a David Icke? They kind of got me started, got me chewing on this stuff and sort of pointed me in the right direction.

Niall: It was the same for me.

Joe: A lot of people get their initiation I suppose, by those people because those two that you mentioned are quite high profile and a lot of people stick with them I think as well, which is maybe a problem. Because David Icke for me is kind of like New Age Spirituality behind it all. He talks a lot about politics and over the past recent years but he started out with very much kind of alternate realities and reptilians and higher dimensions and the queen's a reptilian, basically kind of a mishmash of a lot of new agey type stuff that has come out over the past few decades. And he talks a lot about pseudo-physics, kind of like faux-physics type concepts and stuff. What I get from him is that we're all just energy and if we just think and believe, understand that we're energy, we can transform everything, that everything can be changed if I just understand that I'm just atoms organized in a certain form. If I understand that then I can do whatever I want with those atoms and I can change them and I can walk through a wall or walk through a closed door, you know.

For me that's a lot of new age garbage. Some of it may be true at a kind of higher level, but it doesn't apply to the average person on this planet, including us right now. Nobody has the power to do that. So he's selling a dream basically to people. But then I have to come back a little bit from that because I do like a lot of the stuff that he's done recently in the sense of political stuff because he's on the money about the geopolitical shenanigans that have been going on for a long time in terms of east versus west and NATO and the one world government and all that kind of stuff. He talks a lot about that. But I have a problem with him because I think fundamentally anybody who goes too deep with him is going to be deceived. And Alex Jones is like...

Niall: AJ (laughter).

Joe: What is it? "1776, will rise again, or it'll happen again if they come and take our guns away."

Niall: Yeah. He's egging people towards that revolution that isn't going to come or will be a mess.

Greg: Yeah, and I like the way that you said what you said. I'm not just agreeing with you because you took my call. I'm with you. There's balance. David Icke puts out some really good information and so does Alex.

Niall: He does.

Greg: But I believe as we mature, as we come into this knowledge and for some it's new, for some it's old, and if you feel like it's old and you've been listening to this for a really long time, there's different ways to expand your awareness. There's different ways to make it fresh for you because you're like "God this world sucks and 7 billion people are blind and I'm the only one." Don't feel that way. You heard these people. We're not here to save anybody. I love it. Alex taught me simply this-just pay attention and I am not a patriot. I don't get into the 1776 revolution. That's all nothing but a repeat of why we're in the mess we're in here in the US. And David Icke is very broad knowledge, awesome information but the fact that the queen's a reptile is a little hard for me to swallow. I understand what they mean when they say blueblood. Some say it's because they ingested silver. Some say it's because they're reptile. I don't really know. I've never talked to the queen but I do know this.

Joe: Does it matter?

Greg: It doesn't really matter because I live in Nashville, Tennessee and you can say "Well it does affect your reality." Does it really? I just try to get down to the meat and the potatoes on the table; my family and what I'm doing and I'm just really glad that you guys are talking about this stuff. But I think what a lot of people have done in this genre of information, myself included, is we stay addicted to what's out there, way out in the stratosphere, the Bilderbergs and the queen and because it's celebrity is what it is and we get addicted to that and we forget how to effect change in our own households. You sound balanced and there's some harmony there, what I'm hearing and I really appreciate that.

Joe: Yeah. Thanks for saying it Greg. Have you ever visited our website at SOTT.net?

Greg: No, this is the very first time I've ever even seen your show on Blog Talk.

Joe: Okay. Well we have a website called S-O-T-T.net, but I think you might actually enjoy our forum. It's not directly linked to the website. There's not a direct link from it, but the forum talks about a lot of other stuff. The website has various different categories, covers the news and various different categories and we have editorials on there. But our website, which is Cassiopaea.org, it's a website that covers an extremely broad, broad range of topics and it's been going for quite a long time. It's just my instinct that the way you're talking about things that you might actually find that forum quite interesting. If you're looking for people who share your opinion and maybe challenge your opinions or you could challenge theirs type of thing, it's a good forum to have a look at.

Greg: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Joe: No problem. Alright Greg, we'll let you go.

Greg: Yes, thank you.

Niall: Thanks for your call.

Niall: Bye-bye.

Joe: Yeah a little conspiracy theory on David Icke. He came long in like the '80s, was on the TV show Wogan where he said he was the son of God. Late '80s or early '90s he was on this chat show, Terry Wogan in the UK and that's where he said he was the son of God. He's a former footballer, goalkeeper for an English football club and then he was a TV presenter; he went from football into presenting on a sports channel. And then he became the son of God and suddenly just the transformation, a "road to Damascus" type experience, a revelation to him suddenly turned him into the son of God and he went on this journey, this track that he's been on since then. But I always thought it was interesting that when that kind of thing happens to someone, he was in the UK, about probably 15 years later, around 1998, about 15 years later, there were two British MI5 agents, Annie Machon and David Shayler.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: And they had to go on the run from MI5 because they were leaking information about how MI5 was in bed with al-Qaeda, more or less.

Niall: And that they had plotted to assassinate Gaddafi.

Joe: Right. Using their Arab terrorist proxies.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: She is still on the level but he, when he went back to UK, very quickly, and you could question his mental stability previously, but he seemed like a very normal guy. And when he was talking in the short period of time after this came out and he was able to speak about it, he was very lucid and very eloquent in his talking about it. And then within a period of a few months he just went straight downhill. And one of the things that he eventually started to say was that he was the son of God, that he was Jesus.

Niall: Exactly.

Joe: Almost the same way as Icke did. And then it went kind of a bit further where he became a woman essentially. He picked a new female name and he started dressing as a woman.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: But I always have questions about that. This isn't science fiction now; we know that there is technology, has been for quite a long time where people's minds can be messed with through projected audio into their heads, telling them to do things, etc., just with microwaves actually.

Niall: Beamed basically.

Joe: Yeah, microwave beaming where they can vibrate their inner ear; send impulses to your inner ear that would mimic speech basically, the same frequency as speech and they can hear things from a distance. That's just one example of the kinds of things. And I think this paper was written in the '80s, a scientific paper in the '80s.

Niall: I think this Delgado guy.

Joe: No, this was more of an actual mainstream...

Niall: Oh.

Joe: ...kind of scientific paper. Saying that this kind of thing was real, that kind of thing can happen, you know. So mess with peoples' heads and making them believe that they're Jesus, driving them crazy through voices in their head until they start saying they're Jesus is plausible. So that's just a little concept or idea on the origins of Icke maybe and what he is today. But who knows. As long as people keep saying the right things and the higher the signal to noise ratio is in terms of they don't deviate from it...

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: It's just sort of nothing but truth, then you can go with it.

Niall: Yeah. Share and support it. We sometimes put some of their stuff on SOTT. Alex Jones and Infowars gets on SOTT.

Joe: Right. If they say something that's truthful. Doesn't mean we agree with everything else he says, but if he says one thing truthful, we're not promoting him, we're just repeating something he said. There's been plenty of other people. Someone on the chatroom just said the same kind of mind meddling or interference with people's minds was done with the guy who killed Anna Lindh, the Swedish leftist foreign minister. A lot of these people, these lone nuts...

Niall: Well the guy who was involved in the DC navy yard shooting, black former US intelligence officer, anyway he was now working for a contractor and he told police that the whole backstory - I don't think it was made up - he was turning himself in five months before the shooting, telling them...

Joe: That they were beaming stuff into his head.

Niall: Somebody on an airplane was beaming stuff, "they were chasing me down a corridor in my motel" and stuff. There was probably some substance to it.

Joe: Yeah, absolutely. I think there is. You can go back a long way, to Sirhan Sirhan and the shooting of Bobby Kennedy. We had a show on that where his lawyer, I think it was the Hank Albarelli show where we interviewed him and we had an audio of a talk by Sirhan Sirhan's lawyer at the time, not long after he was put in prison for shooting Bobby Kennedy, the lawyer got a hypnotist into the cell and hypnotized him very quickly and very easily and while the lawyer was present for this, told him when he tapped him on the head after putting him under very quickly said "When you wake up you're going to climb up the bars of the cell and start making monkey noises." So he tapped on the head and Sirhan Sirhan, up the bars he went and started making monkey noises. Before he took him out of it, when he asked him "Sirhan Sirhan, why do you have the bars, acting like a monkey? Who told you to do that?" And he said "Nobody told me to do that. I did that myself. I chose to do that." This isn't science fiction, this is a well known psychological fact basically, that people can be hypnotized. I used to go to shows when I was young, once or twice, to hypnotist shows where people on stage were made to cluck like chickens. And I knew some of them and had no reason to believe, when they told me that they didn't know why they did it or that they weren't aware, they know they did it but they didn't know fully why they did it. There's no reason to disbelieve that people can be made to do things that they wouldn't normally do.

Niall: Yeah. People are malleable, but going back to what Greg was saying, that doesn't mean that we're all exposed and "oh my God!" People tend to get paranoid when they hear a lot of these things, especially who turn to media sites like Icke's or Alex Jones. They freak out because they're hearing all that. But the other side of it is the accumulation of true information, knowledge, as much as you can of it, protects you from such predations.

Joe: Right.

Niall: You see that's the how and the why together, the end and the means. "What do I do?" Well you keep doing what you're doing. You collect correct information. You become more balanced in all areas of your life. And that is your "mission".

Joe: Yeah. That's what you're to do. You're not here to effect any great changes on a planetary scale. You're here, if anything, just to learn and to grow and to observe and if you're inclined that way, to pay strict attention to what's going on, on this planet today because it's very important for your own understanding of how the world works and maybe how the broader universe works, or the forces at play. You can go down the rabbit hole as far as you want I suppose, but you need to protect yourself along the way and make sure that you're not being led on a kind of wild goose chase.

And another way to protect yourself from that, is to have a network or a group of people who are kind of like-minded and know those concepts as well and understand those dangers and you can check each other.

Niall: Yeah. They can tell you when you're going a bit kaflooey.

Joe: Right, yeah. And they're not involved in something in particular or research that you're doing but they can give you some external, more objective feedback and that's a very useful safeguard against being led down the garden path. Anyway, will we leave it there? We don't want to say anything about Russia do we?

Niall: Well I wanted to ask Daniel's take on it, but I have a good feeling...

Joe: I know what he would have said.

Niall: Yeah, I think he gets it that Putin's being attacked, squeezed, by the powers that be.

Joe: The Nemtsov guy who was killed, was killed not because of how important he was but because of how unimportant he was, because of how insignificant he was because he wasn't that useful to the people who killed him.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: So he was killed. And that exposes the kind of lie of the western media with what they're saying. They're saying the opposite, that he was killed because he's such a threat. In fact in truth it's another example of how you can turn the western media completely on its head. They're saying that he was killed by Putin. They're implying in some way or other that he was killed by Putin, or someone within the Kremlin because of the threat that he posed to the Kremlin and to Putin. The truth is he was killed because he was insignificant and he was expendable, in fact, which means that he was not killed by Putin. He was killed by the enemies of Putin and he was useless to them. The BBC even had to admit that the guy had fallen off the radar politically. He was not a prominent Russian politician. He was supplanted or replaced by the Navalny guy who was under house arrest. And his gang who were younger than the guy who was shot, are more social media savvy, they came on the scene over the past few years and used the social media civil society, open society kind of techniques of activism and that's why they are the main phony opposition, the Nemtsov guy was a has-been so he was the perfect choice to get the last bit of use out of him, effectively.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: Through killing him. It's sick. His whole life, his whole career over the past ten years, let's say, has been funded by the US government, US state department, to attempt to destabilize and overthrow Putin. He kind of failed in that attempt. He was no longer useful, but they can get one last use out of him by killing him and trying to blame Putin.

Niall: It's sick, but it's the way those people think. That's their "logic".

Joe: It's just straight through; problem, reaction, solution kind of thing.

Niall: The BBC might have said, "Well actually caveat, he wasn't that important" on the 20th paragraph, but the headlines in the London press made the suggestion, they're not actually stating it, that this guy who was killed was the leader of the opposition.

Joe: I know, but they totally spun that. They completely spun that. That's a complete and utter lie when you can go and find various sources within Russia and outside Russia who all say he was a has-been. He had lost and he was off the radar. He was not significant. He hadn't achieved what he tried to achieve. He couldn't even get five percent of the vote in the 2011 election to actually run for parliament or run for the presidency of his party. As they say, he couldn't even get five percent. I think it was because he got a big zero-point-five percent. Nobody voted for this guy.
So what kind of opposition is that? Just so people know, the west is talking about the opposition in Russia, that this guy who was killed was a leader of the opposition and the opposition against Putin and the liberal opposition, as if there's some big shakes. The opposition, when you talk politically, the opposition is the party that is not in power but is the next biggest party to the party in power, the second biggest party in the country.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: That's what the opposition is. In the UK right now the conservatives are in power, the liberal democrats as a coalition, but labour is the opposition because they're out of power but they're the next biggest party. It's the same in most western countries and Russia's no different. The second biggest party in Russia is the communist party.

Niall: Oh, we can't mention that!

Joe: That's the opposition. So if you want to cover opposition rallies in Russia, opposition that actually represents a significant portion of the will of the Russian people that don't agree with Putin, you look to the next biggest party which is the communist party. So when they have rallies, the BBC and the New York Times and CNN, should be reporting on those rallies and saying "Here's the opposition, here's the significant opposition rally in Russia waving their communist flags."

But they don't do that for some reason because that's not the kind of opposition that they want there to be in Russia that doesn't exist. They want a western, liberal - I could use a lot of words but I won't - western, liberal open society, civil society opposition in Russia. That's the kind they want. They want a western model to opposition inside Russia. And they don't have it, so they create it. They throw money at it and they try over and over and over again and the Kremlin doesn't have to do anything about it because it has no traction in Russia because most Russian people are wise to what's going on and aren't interested in that kind of western liberal bullshit.

Sure, there were 10,000 people who came out for the march today that was preplanned...

Niall: They came out under a different banner...

Joe: They came out under a different banner with his picture and Russian flags and stuff, but 10,000 people in Moscow isn't a lot of people and especially it's actually not a lot of people when you consider the fact that a lot of those people would have been out simply in sympathy with someone who was tragically assassinated or cruelly assassinated in Moscow and who was known by a certain amount of people. So the fact that there were 10,000 people in the streets doesn't mean anything. That's not a really big opposition. The communists can have like 500,000 people on the streets tomorrow in Moscow.

Niall: It would have been interesting if the Russian government had encouraged people to come out, from the point of view of "Well the guy was shot dead unjustly."

Joe: Right.

Niall: And then they'd have millions waving Russian flags and they would have spun it in the west as one thing. But it would have been something totally different.

Joe: I know.

Niall: And they're like "Here we go. Here we go. This is it. We're going to get the Maidan in Moscow." Wait, it's not happening. Actually about the Maidan in Moscow, this may have been planned in the sense that the Maidan in Moscow idea was being talked about in Russia as being planned for the spring so there might have been a timetable. It fits with the sanctions, with everything else that's being attacked.

Joe: It's a pathetic attempt though.

Niall: I know.

Joe: They're doing an awful lot more. If you consider what they had to do in Ukraine; months of preparation, whipping people up, throwing millions of dollars at phony NGOs in Ukraine and then having a months-long protest camp on Maidan square, increasingly violent and then eventually shooting over 100 people over two days. That's what they needed to do in Ukraine, specifically Kiev, to be sure of a coup, of a revolution. That actually worked. Shooting one guy outside the Kremlin? I reckon you're going to need a little bit more. So in that sense I just place it in the context of the continuing...

Niall: Asymmetric war...

Joe: ...propaganda, demonization of Putin by the west just to put pressure on him, to try and smear him as much as possible. The next thing they'll be "They killed our lord Jesus" you know. The CIA or the state department will find some documents on Facebook that says that Putin killed Jesus.

Niall: (Laughing).

Joe: And that'll be added to the list of things that he did and that he eats babies or something. Anyway, it's all a bit ridiculous. It's hard to stomach sometimes but what are you going to do? There's nowhere to go. Get me on a spaceship to Mars.

Niall: I don't know.

Joe: I want to go to Mars.

Niall: It's cold out there.

Joe: Get me just to the moon then. I need some of that lovely moon dust.

Niall: Or cheese.

Joe: Or the cheese, whatever. No, I'd probably end up having to share a seat with Henry Kissinger or something like that, the age of him. (Niall laughing) He should have slipped off this mortal coil by now. Oh well. Anyway, we're going to leave it there for this week folks. Thanks to Daniel again for talking to us and for discussing these interesting topics and issues. And to our caller Greg and to our pop uppers, our chatters. I think we're going to have a little outro here, so until next week folks, have a good one. Thanks for listening and we will...

Niall: See you then.

Joe: See you then.

Niall: Bye-bye.

Relic monolog:
Well hello. It's Relic here reporting from my tiny log cabin in the upper shores of Lake Canada. This place has on average about oh, 37 months of winter every year. Yeah, it's pretty cold. Being cooped up inside for so long, folks around here sometimes come down with a bad case of cabin fever. Some folks call it Ebola of the north but there ain't no vaccine for crazy.
Anyways, to pass the time, I like to keep up to date with all the celebrity gossip that one might find on the interweb. So let's get started. The academy awards were handed out last week and well nothing glamourizes the vapid excess of celebrity culture like a bunch of surgically enhanced beautiful people patting each other on the back for receiving a golden statue of a little naked man. Yeah, times have changed.

Highlights of this year's awards ceremonies include Doogie Howser prancing around in his underroos, a creepy Vinnie Barbarino going all Helen Keller on the face of actress Idina Menzel, whoever she is. And of course Lady Gaga stole the show by singing a tribute to the Sound of Music. You know when I think about it it's actually rather horrifying to imagine what her favourite things might be.

Speaking of Lady Gaga, Entertainment Tonight is reporting that she and her long time boyfriend have announced their engagement. Well congratulations to the happy couple. She's famous for her elaborate costuming and rumour has it that Lady Gaga has designed a wedding dress made out of marshmallows and chocolate. The groom on the other hand, will be wearing a tuxedo made entirely of graham crackers. This is so that when they toast the bride and groom, they can create a giant Smores.

Ha, ha, ha.

True story.

In other news talk show host Ellen Degeneris and pop idol Justin Blieber released a prank video where they hid in a public bathroom. In order to scare people. Well back here in Canada we actually have a word for finding Justin Blieber hiding in your bathroom trying to scare ya. Yeah, we call it justifiable homicide. That'll fix him, fix him good.

And one last Oscar item of note, when the nominees were first announced there was a substantial uproar that the Lego movie was overlooked for best animated feature film. Well, as tragic as that development was, I just have one question for them folks who wrote that movie's theme song Everything Is Awesome. HAVE YOU LOOKED OUT THE FRIGGIN' WINDOW??? GREAT CAESAR'S GHOST MAN! Your country's becoming a virtual police state. The cops are going around indiscriminately killing your neighbours. Your commander-in-chief is clamouring to start World War III with Russia.

And have you seen the weather outside? Blankets of now, sheets of rain. I don't know. Seems like somebody forgot how to make the bed, if you catch my drift. Sure, everything is awesome when you're a two-inch plastic toy guaranteed to survive any apocalypse along with the cockroaches and other vermin left behind like, well like politicians and their secret underground bunkers. But for the rest of us mere mortals, well everything is not awesome indeed. Still, it's a pretty catchy tune. "Everything is awesome. Everything is great when you live in a dream." Yeah, I have a feeling I'll be singing that little ditty all the way to the grave.

Spock: "Most illogical."

Speaking of graves, we have some sadly breaking news here from the Twitterverse today. It's been reported that actor Leonard Nimoy passed away, quietly in his home in Bel Air this weekend. You know it's not often one finds a celebrity who's both talented and modest, articulate and kind. And aside from all the money and fame that normally accompanies such a career choice, what he garnered most of all was our admiration and respect. Godspeed Mr. Spock and may you continue to only go where no one has gone before.
Well that's it for now kids. 'Til next time, it's relic here throwing another log on the fire and saying keep your feet on the ground and your eyes on the stars.
Joe: There you go folks. That was a little surprise from our SOTT Radio Network pop culture correspondent Relic. That was his pop culture roundup for the past week or so. He will be appearing regularly, we hope, from now on. He's located in some unknown location in the wilds of Canada. So we hope we'll be able to continue to receive his transmissions over the next few weeks because they're very interesting, very much on the money. Anyway, so we'll say good-bye again and we hope to see you next week. Until then, bye.

Niall: Take care. Bye.