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In the following SOTT Talk Radio show from late 2013, we discussed some of the 'High Strangeness' that has gone on, and continues to go on, in and around the Big Blue Marble.

From 'The Beast of Gévaudan', to UFOs to the 'Mothman' and back again, throughout modern history, tens of thousands of human beings have reported seeing and having bizarre and apparently inexplicable experiences with 'otherworldly' creatures. While mainstream 'science' automatically dismisses such reports as the product of liars or the psychologically disturbed, the reports keep coming in, both from normal people who, far from seeking a moment of fame, are very often extremely reluctant to even speak about what they saw, and people with impeccable credentials whose word, in any other circumstances, would never be doubted.

What is the truth behind the High Strangeness that appears to have plagued our planet and species for so long, and are human beings really at the top of the food chain?

Running Time: 02:12:00

Download: MP3

Here's the transcript:

Joe: Hi, and welcome to SOTT Talk Radio. I'm Joe Quinn. With me in the studio again this week are Niall Bradley.

Niall: Hello.

Joe: And Pierre Lescaudron.

Pierre: Bonjour.

Joe: This week the topic of our show is, well the title of our show is Hyperdimensional Planet Earth. From the Beast of Gévaudan to UFOs, to the Mothman and back again, throughout modern history tens of thousands of human beings have reported seeing and having bizarre and apparently inexplicable experiences with otherworldly creatures. While mainstream science automatically dismisses such reports as the product of liars or the psychologically disturbed, the reports just keep on coming in, both from normal people who, far from seeking a moment of fame, are very often extremely reluctant to even speak about what they saw, and from people with impeccable credentials whose word, in any other circumstances, would never normally be doubted.

So, the question here is... Pierre, what's going on?
[Audio begins playing with 'radio interference', then a voice comes through....] Alright, you're listening to All Hit Radio. And it's 53 degrees at 13 minutes past the hour. And right now on our all-request line, I've got Mike Ledgewood on the phone. Hey babe, what would you like to hear?

Voices: We are observing your earth.

Announcer: Hey babe, I can't hear you too well. You're going to have to speak a little closer into the phone, okay babe? What would you like to hear again?

Voices: We are observing your earth.

Announcer: Hey Mike, I'm sorry babe, but that's not on our play list. And by the way you sound great over the phone. Anyway, if you give us your request, we'll be glad to play it for you, babe. So let's hear it.

Voices: We are observing your earth.

Announcer: Uh, listen Mike. I'm sorry babe, but we can't ...

Voices: And we'd like to make ...

Announcer: I'm sorry Mike.

Voices: ... a contact with you. Baby.

[Carpenters' song Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft begins playing, then fades out...]
Joe: OK. Sorry about that interference there folks!

Niall: We're back online now.

Joe: We're back online and we seem to have some of an interruption there to our show.

Actually, we're joking!

That, as some of you, or many of you might know, was The Carpenters from 1976 and their song, 'Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft'. And the reason we played that, well there's several reasons. One of them, which we'll get to, but one of them is, concerns the name of the song: Calling Occupants of Interplanetary Craft. And that phrase came from a guy named Albert K. Bender who was a founder of a group called the International Flying Saucer Bureau. In 1953, on March 15, 1953, to be exact, he and the other members of his group and all of the members around the world decided to have a 'contact day', which was a day in which they would attempt to contact extraterrestrials, as they were understood to be at the time, and are still today, I suppose.

This contact day was, as I said, March 15, 1953, and they devised a message that people, their members and anybody else who was interested, were to memorise and repeat on that day at a specific time around the world; and they gave all sorts of different times when people could coordinate to be doing it at precisely the same time around the world. And the message that they were to memorise and then repeat in their minds in a quiet place in the house or wherever they were, started off with:
'Calling occupants of interplanetary craft'.

Calling occupants of interplanetary craft that have been observing our planet Earth. We of the IFSB, [i.e. the International Flying Saucer Bureau] wish to make contact with you. We are your friends and would like you to make an appearance here on Earth. Your presence before us will be welcomed with the utmost friendship. We will do al in our power to promote mutual understanding between your people and the people of Earth. Please come in peace and help us in our earthly problems.
That's more or less what it was and everyone was meant to repeat this in their head, having memorised it, and to see if it could bring on the 'space brothers' to save us from ourselves. The founder of this group who promoted and devised this project, this plan to try and contact aliens, was Albert K. Bender. He is the author of several books, one of them being 'Flying Saucers and the Three Men'. He himself obviously participated in this project and he describes his experience in his book. So he said:
It was after the third attempt at sending the message calling on the space brothers I felt a terrible cold chill. Then my head began to ache, as if several headaches had saved up their anguish and heaped it upon me at one time. A strange odour reached my nostrils like that of burning sulphur or badly decomposed eggs. Then I partly lost consciousness as the room around me began to fade away. Small blue lights seemed to swim through my brain. I seemed to be floating on a cloud in the middle of space with a strange feeling of weightlessness controlling my entire anatomy. A throbbing pain developed in my temples and I felt as if they might burst. He opened his eyes and to his amazement he seemed to be floating above his bed. He says:Suddenly I could hear a voice: "We have been watching you and your activities. Please be advised to discontinue delving into the mysteries of the universe. We will make an appearance if you disobey. We are among you and know your every move, so please be advised we are here on Earth."

So after this message he sat on the edge of his bed, grew sick to his stomach and felt as if he'd eaten something rotten. That wasn't the end of it, though. A couple of days later he started to smell a foul smell in his room again, and three entities appeared in front of him, according to him. His temples throbbed and his body grew light. He says: "The eyes of these three figures suddenly lit up like flashbulbs, or light bulbs, and all these were focused upon me. They seemed to burn into my very soul as the pains above my eyes became almost unbearable."

So these three entities - this is a few days later - said to him: We feel that you are a very good contact for us on our planet of Earth. We have a purpose for being here and we will be here for some time yet. We must not be disturbed in our ultimate goal. We have found it necessary to go to great extremes at time to frighten off your Earth people and it has resulted in their deaths. We also found it necessary to carry off Earth people to use their bodies to disguise our own. [1]
So, that's from Albert K. Bender, in his book, and this was the result of him 'calling occupants of interplanetary craft'. We can only imagine what other experiences other people had as a result of this, I suppose you can call it, misadventure. But...

Joe: The reason we started this way was because there's a contrast there, obviously, between the Carpenters and their song, which helps, I suppose, to define the attitude through several decades, I suppose, of the twentieth century, from the 50s, 60s, 70s, and further on, where people, or a certain section of people, for some reason had the idea that aliens, and those who were, people who were disposed to believing in them, or thinking about them even, thought that they were, essentially, benevolent, and that they would come to save humanity. Where this idea comes from is, well, it's a topic for discussion to see where it comes from, but certainly, anybody who looks at the topic of UFOs and strange phenomenon, but particularly in relation to UFOs and so-called aliens and extraterrestrials, will quickly realise that this is not a positive thing. This is not something you want to call down to...

Niall: Yeah. It's generally ill-advised to be calling down anything because you might regret what you were asking for.

Joe: Did nobody see 'Independence Day'? When all those people on top of the towers, on top of the building and what happened to them when they were, you know: 'Take me!'

Niall: I think we have a good idea where this stuff comes from, because that was a pretty common event actually. That wasn't a unique happening. I would say most abductee or contactee experiences, where it involves the contactee then preaching a message to people, is more or less along the same lines. The message is:'we're space brothers'. Maybe they don't say that explicitly, but it's implied. And also they say that, essentially, human beings are endangering their planet, they are a risk to their own planet. We are here to observe and/or to help you sort the problems out. So this is where this meme came from. It came from people like this Albert Bender willingly putting himself forward to be a medium for a message he didn't understand.

Pierre: Yeah. I think that this UFO and alien phenomenon has been growing so big. It's present in every culture, every region of the world; middle ages, in ancient times, modern times of course. For John Keel, there's more in the 90s, there were more than 500,000 UFO reports. 500,000! The evidence are growing so big that we'll reach a point that it's impossible to deny the phenomenon. although it's been denied for decades. So now I guess a new strategy is being implemented. Since it cannot be denied, it will be twisted. The existence of those phenomena will be accepted but they will be twisted, instead of being something fundamentally negative, it will be presented as something positive. So, it's alright and then we can go back to sleep!

Joe: Just before we go on I just want to mention, in case anybody's forgotten, that you are welcome, encouraged even, to call in or write in via the chatroom with your, ideally call in though, with your experiences, your comments, whatever, on this particular topic, whatever you want to say, or throw out there...

Niall: Have you seen any UFOs, or experienced any high strangeness?

Joe: Yeah. If you have, let us know, and we'll discuss it.

Niall: What about you two guys? Have you had any high strangeness?

Joe: I have, yeah. I wouldn't really call it high strangeness. It doesn't compare with anything you read in some of these books. If you read John Keel's books, and many others actually, any books that recount the first hand accounts of experiences other people have had, particularly - is it the third kind? Close encounters of the third kind is when you actually have some kind of a direct contact rather than seeing something.

I suppose I had a close encounter of the - it was probably the 0.5 kind, not even the first kind. I just saw what can be accurately be described as a UFO, an unidentified flying object, or maybe it was more like an unidentified floating object; because it wasn't actually flying. It wasn't moving. It was maybe twenty years ago, it was just sitting above a mountain. Not a very high mountain, maybe a thousand feet in bright sunlight. I was driving past in the car, I was in the back of the car looking up and I just saw a small, kind of silver, metallic ball, pretty much like a ball bearing, maybe not quite as shiny, just sitting above the mountain. I couldn't exactly say it was behind it, or exactly where it was but it was higher than the mountain from my vantage point along the bottom as we were driving. And then it went out of view. I just watched it for a minute or two until it went out of view because we went round the side of the mountain and it was obscured. And then when I was able to see again where it should have been it was gone. But other than that, no, no glowing red eyes, or hairy hands coming to attack me in the night or anything like that.

Pierre: I had a very similar experience. A few years ago actually. I was driving on the highway past Toulouse, in France, and it was a neon ball actually, and I saw a similar object. Silvery, hanging in the sky, but I was driving so I was busy. I was on the highway, I couldn't stop. And, it was not moving. So, it was a plane, I thought. And when I checked again it was not there anymore.

Niall: Did you check up above? It could have been following you. You laugh, but that's happened!

Pierre: I know! No, it was not this dramatic. I was going to see unfortunately, unfortunately for the show, for the dramatic depiction, but fortunately for me because indeed this is not something good.

Joe: What about you, Niall?

Niall: Yeah. I had a strange one. So, I was in Greece, and I was there for a few months, so, we spent most evenings on the beach preparing a meal over a fire. So there was hardly any, in fact no urban light, and it was a starry night, every night. And the first time I said, "That looks strange. One of the stars appears to be getting brighter. Huh!" And it did. It definitely increased in brightness, in size - I'm not so sure about size, but brightness, and then moved. It had been stationary. It appeared to... either it moved downwards, or away from where we were sitting. I couldn't tell. But, you know, you just think, "Oh, that's interesting."

Now, we were observing the skies and we had seen a few meteors, a few flashes of light, but nothing out of the ordinary, and we were also watching and we could see satellites, which, once you start looking at them you know, they're distinct, they're very, very small, and they go at a very constant speed, the whole way across the horizon. So I ruled those out. We didn't think much of it, but then the next night, it happened again. This time we only caught, from more or less the same position, we only caught the tail end, of the actual movement. And then that happened a third night, and I thought, "Now hang on a minute!"

And from then on we started paying attention, looking up because it happened at exactly the same time. I started to look at my watch before. At 9:09, for eight nights in succession, I'm guessing for the first three nights the time was the same because it was around, it seemed around then. But about 9:09, 9:10pm, for eight nights in a row this same thing happened. This bright light, as if it was just one of the stars in a fixed position but became much brighter and then moved, and faded away.

Joe: Well here's where we enter into one of the core problems of the whole UFO phenomenon. On that third or fourth night, whenever you looked at your watch and said, '9:09,' then, on subsequent nights it appeared again, or you saw it again, at 9:09, did you have any - could you have had any involvement in the recurrence of that phenomenon? Because you had an expectation? Because that's one thing that, in the accounts of peoples' experiences with the UFO phenomenon.

Niall: If I did, then I had it with two other people. All three of us.

Joe: You were all expecting it?

Niall: Yes.

Joe: That would just make it more...

Niall: All expected it, and then all manifested it?

Joe: Well, not necessarily manifested, but what I'm saying is the timing, and it happening at the same time could have, in some way, conformed with your expectations, because there is evidence that - John Keel said this in his books, that many of the people that he interviewed said that their experiences led them to believe that what they were seeing, even if it was just a light in the sky, or maybe something more substantial, in terms of looking like some kind of a craft or flying saucer; that they all said that it seemed to be alive, i.e., intelligent and alive.

So, if that's the case, and there is evidence of it again interacting with people, I mean Keel himself - this is reminiscent of the movie Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind, the one from the '80s with Richard Dreyfus. Anyway, Close Encounters of the Something Kind. The one where he's up in the mountain and they're playing, the scientists are playing the music and communicating with the spaceship.

Pierre: Third Kind, I think.

Joe: Oh, the third kind ... are playing the music and you know, they're interacting with this, there's a communication going on. There's obviously the ship itself, obviously you see aliens afterward, but the idea from Keel's point of view is that this thing itself, there was no evidence from these peoples' point of view that there was any beings, or entities, or humanoid forms or anything in it, but they got the impression that the thing itself was alive. What they were seeing. Not that they were seeing a being but that the thing itself was alive.

And Keel himself went up onto, this is around the whole Mothman time in Point Pleasant; he went up on hills in the local area on several nights and flashed his flashlight. He always took a flashlight with him and flashed his flashlight at some of the lights and they responded. And this is without there being any evidence. That would lead someone to suppose that, well, there must be someone inside it. But what if there's not? Do you know what I mean? What if what you're seeing, and this is Keel's thesis as well, ultimately after all of his research, his thesis at the very end, was that this was some kind of an energy formation.

I don't necessarily agree with him on that, and he also said that it was native to the Earth. This wasn't about anything being in space. So, in that case, if it's some kind of an intelligent energy construct that you're seeing, then essentially if it has telepathic capabilities, well then deciding that it visits us here at 9:09 every night would essentially be...

Niall: Ah! Would be...

Joe: Communicating with it and lead it to say: "OK. I'll be back at 9:09 tomorrow night because you asked me to."

Niall: OK.

Joe: Well, that's what I was saying.

Niall: I didn't have any messages to give anyone.

Joe: You weren't calling any interplanetary craft?

Niall: No. I was probably reading Laura's book High Strangeness at the time, among other books on the topic, so, I think I would have been a tough target to bamboozle!

Joe: Oh yeah? You were quite ...

Niall: Well I think when people become aware of the scale of this thing and the way its connected, you become sort of immune to it, at least in a way that...

Joe: You're not wide-eyed and bushy-tailed, and totally open to it.

Niall: You're far less likely to leap to all kinds of conclusions that might endanger you.

Pierre: It raises another interesting question. In John Keel's book The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings he reports a case where a witness saw an alien being, and started a conversation with the alien being. And the alien being assuredly at first was surprised that the human witness could see him. And the alien being said that usually humans cannot see aliens, and they rarely can see them if they are less than a hundred feet away. And the alien said, and that's why most observations occur during night time because during night time their ships are glowing in the night; so it's are easier to see.

So you start to wonder why most people cannot see those phenomena. And one tentative explanation is that there might be some kind of mass suggestion, or mass belief, that tends to make us blind to something that is ultimately visible. So it would be the reverse from what some researchers say. Some researchers say, yeah, what those witnesses saw were just a product of their imagination. But if we follow this line of thinking, this hypothesis, it might be the opposite. The phenomena might be much more widespread than we think, and actually the witnesses that report are only part of a minority of the population that is able to see what is hidden to suggestion or belief to most of us.

Joe: Or the alternative is that the people who see it are induced to see it, specifically, in that sense.

Niall: I don't think being able to see it makes you in any way special.

Joe: No. Again Keel talks about this where he says:
The contactee syndrome, i.e. people who have experienced encounters with UFOs, is a fundamental reprogramming process. No matter what frame of reference is being used, the experience usually begins with either the sudden flash of light, or a sound: a humming, buzzing, or beeping. The subject's attention is riveted to a pulsating, flickering light of dazzling intensity. He finds he is unable to move a muscle and is rooted to the spot. Next the flickering light goes through a series of colour changes and a seemingly physical object begins to take form. The light diminishes, revealing a boat, if the event occurs on a lake or a river; a flying machine of unusual configuration; or an entity of some sort. But what's really happening?

The percipient is first entranced by the flickering light. From the moment he feels paralyzed he loses touch with reality and begins to hallucinate. Light remains light, but his or her mind constructs something else. This could be compared with normal hypnosis. A hypnotized subject very often thinks he is fully conscious, that the hypnosis isn't working and he is just going along with the hypnotist. But when he tries to move or disobey a command, he is surprised to find he can't. The paralysis reported in so many UFO cases is really a form of hypnosis. [2]
He's speaking there specifically about paralysis. But that will obviously extend to all other, theoretically, as a theory it would extend to all other symptoms of these experiences, or what people claim to have seen. That is, it's all essentially - Keel says, and I think he's misunderstood in this, Keel has said that it's all a hallucination. But what he's really saying - what he's not saying is that people are simply making this up like they're disturbed or mentally unstable, but that something is projecting, is hypnotising people, projecting images into their mind. That suggests therefore that there is something there. Something is very actively messing with someone's head to make them see something of their choosing, of their, this force or this energy or this entity's choosing, so...

Niall: Now he extends it. Not only that, but he acknowledges that people have fired on, bullets have ricocheted off these things, and even then he would put that in the same bracket. That, yes, there's material to your perception and it has interacted with something you did to it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not actually there.

Joe: In that form.

Niall: In that form.

Joe: In the form that you're seeing it. But then I mean you can get into all sorts of theories that have nothing to do with UFOs here, essentially, in terms of the nature of reality and existence where everything we see is a projection of our own consciousness, in the sense that it's some kind of energetic structure, a construct around us. And by the process of simply looking at and thinking, you're projecting some kind of form onto your reality. In another sense as human beings there's a consensus reality and we all tend to agree that certain things should be a certain way; but maybe that's controlled in some sense for that to happen, where we all see reality in the same way, or we all see only a certain part of reality, or see it in a certain construct.

Niall: It's unavoidable to discuss this topic without bringing it out to the broader questions of what is real and what is not.

Pierre: Yeah. It becomes tricky if those beings manage to a hyperdimensional swing from one side of reality to the other side of reality, able to control human minds, to create memories, to alter senses, to read minds, to move back and forth in time. It becomes a tricky topic, but an even more interesting one.

Joe: OK. We have a call here, so, let's go ahead and take it. Hi, caller. What's your name and where are you calling from?

Genevieve: Hi. This is Genevieve. I'm calling from the mid-west United States. How are you guys?

Joe: Hi, Genevieve. We're good.

Niall: Hello. Welcome to the show.

Pierre: Hello.

Genevieve: I wanted to call in. I haven't talked publicly about what I saw this past summer with anyone so I'm a bit nervous about it. I've had instances of what I think were high strangeness my entire life. But nothing like what my father and I saw back in mid-September. We were outside sunning, and doing puzzles and reading books, and I kept looking up because I wanted more sun. I was checking out the sun-to cloud-ratio, and I looked up all of a sudden, and saw this grey blob, and it had no definitive structure or point of reference. I was sitting in a chair so I had a point of reference, and without taking my eyes off of this grey blob, I said, "Dad! Do you see that?"

He was also sitting in a chair and he had a point of reference, and he said, "I do! What is it?"

And, we're still talking and looking and, we're following this thing with our eyes and not saying much. I think we were in shock. But we deduced afterward, after about fifteen seconds it disappeared behind some alto cirrus clouds, and it was just there and then gone. Fifteen, twenty seconds. We're located under a flight pattern, pretty heavy flight pattern. The Indianapolis airport has a huge flight pattern; there's lots of planes that fly over and around, and it wasn't a plane. It was not, like I said, anything distinguishable from anything in reality that I'm aware of. And, when my father and I discussed it later we were both kind of in shock and said, "Well, let's go ... we wish we could go back and redo this. We wish we could see this thing again."

But I thought maybe it was something flying in between densities. Or that it had lost it's possible invisibility shield, if there is such a thing. But that was my experience, and I didn't realise it but a few days following this experience I felt drained. I had no energy. I felt like absolute poo and it turned out my dad was feeling the same way and we talked about it and we said - I've done a lot of research on the forum and read all of Laura's books - and I thought, "My God! I wonder if it's connected."

Joe: Mm hm. So you're saying it was an amorphous blob? Grey blob?

Genevieve: Yes. In an oval, circular shape. It didn't really change shape or size, but it was moving from west to east and then just disappeared behind the clouds after about fifteen, twenty seconds.

Joe: Mm hm. So that in itself wasn't necessarily something strange, but more of a curiosity, I suppose, given what you already know. But you said that you felt bad afterwards? Physically?

Genevieve: We did. I did, and you know I didn't really connect it for about twenty-four to thirty-six hours. I just didn't have the energy that I normally have, and I spoke with my father, and he said, you know, I'm not feeling great either. We didn't know if we should attribute it to diet or maybe wifi, things we deal with in a condoplex, but we've taken some precautions as far as all that goes and we just couldn't understand why we were feeling so drained.

So I did some more of the EE and introduced my father to the EE breathing program and after a while it seemed the more we acknowledged it the better off we were feeling. The more we talked about it, I talked about it with my husband and also told my mom about it, and things seemed to get a little bit better. I don't know if it was my mind, freaking out or some subconscious thing because I saw this, or if I was actually being nuts with. Same thing goes for my dad...

Joe: Did you dwell on it in that sense? Were you worried about it afterwards? Did you let it get to you in some ways?

Genevieve: That's the interesting thing. No. That's the interesting thing, because I was asked the same thing by my husband when I told him. I didn't put two and two together as far as feeling that until thirty-six hours, forty-eight hours later is when I put two and two together. So, no. I mean, we told my husband when he got home about it, and we talked about it a bit, and talked about some of the things we'd done in our research and what it could have possibly been.

But we know about whole psychic shielding, and I am a smoker. I am a smoker, thank you very much! And I'm aware of my psychic hygiene or at least I'm as aware as I possibly can be. I'm sure there's more improvements I could make. But, no, as far as dwelling on it, I don't think I did. We talked about it, it was just kind of there, and we've always kind of accepted that we don't know what's out there; anything can be out there.
So, and like I said I had previous instances of high strangeness; I believe to be high strangeness. Unexplainable things from my past. Like I said never a craft; a possible craft. So...

Niall: Did this occur over a populated area? Over other people?

Genevieve: Yes.

Niall: And did you notice or ask did anyone else see it or did you hear any reports about anyone else seeing it?

Genevieve: Well the issue was it was, I guess, a beautiful sunny day. It was mid-afternoon during the week. So, I don't know if anybody else saw it and I didn't ask. I'm sorry, when you say 'populated', the city and the surrounding area is about a million people. But like I said...

Niall: That's populated!

Genevieve: ...during the week.

Niall: OK.

Genevieve: It's very populated!

Niall: You'd reasonably expect if something was there that others would see it, right?

Joe: Yeah.

Genevieve: Absolutely.

Niall: But that's not to say that something was not there. I mean, there are fascinating examples of people reporting seeing a mile wide UFO over the city of New Jersey.

Joe: But only a small number of people.

Niall: Well in this case, the case I'm thinking of, just those two people watching it saw it. A judge and his wife. And no one else saw it. I mean it was a mile wide! They guessed that estimate based on where it was positioned between two mountains and so on. It was huge, it was over the city. There should have been 30,000 calls at least. Wow!

Genevieve: Was that just in a recent SOTT article? Because I read that just recently ... OK, OK, to the one between two mountains and it was a mile, it was supposed to be a mile wide ship, right?

Joe: Yeah.

Genevieve: Yeah, I don't know. Was it a psychic connection between myself and my dad and whatever's out there? Or, what? I'll try and give you guys a reference as to - I guess if you were to hold a penny up at arm's length, that's about the size of it. And like I said, I was looking up and just trying to see when is the sun going to come back out. That was the only reason I was looking up. And most people probably wouldn't have seen it. A beautiful sunny day, they're just going about their business, and frankly, a lot of people just don't look up.

Joe: Mm hm.

Niall: Yeah!

Joe: Well, you know, you're aware of, in the Cassiopaean Transcripts, that there's been mentioned over the years of, kind of, bleed-through, what they call bleed-through. That is always one to consider, but also we don't know very much about if something like that is happening, you know, happening spottily around the world, type of thing, that when it happens we don't if there's any other effects other than seeing strange things. If it can in some way make people who are passive observers, or passively involved in it, feel a little strange and a little weird.

Genevieve: Sure.

Joe: I suppose we don't have an answer as to what the direct connection might be between what you saw and how you and your father were feeling afterwards, but I think the most important thing is that you store it away in your mind as an experience and keep it in mind. As we were just talking before you called, as we were saying before you called in, all of the evidence suggests that there's nothing positive about any of these interactions. There has never been anything positive for anyone, regardless of the few love-and-lighters that are out there who claim to have had wonderful experiences. They're just likely screen memories based on the hypnotism effect that we've just described, or that John Keel described. So, yeah, keep it in mind, and just let it make you more resolved to keep these things at bay.

Genevieve: Absolutely!

Pierre: The energetic drain you reported has been widely reported by other witnesses of such encounters. And from what I remember, two explanations have been provided. The first explanation is that there might be some energetic drain between the observer and the observed event; and the other explanation, which is not mutually exclusive, is that seeing such an event shakes the very foundations of your representation of reality. So as such it's a major shock, emotional shock; and, as I say, it's not mutually exclusive. Maybe both occur at the same time.

Genevieve: You guys are absolutely right, and the same thing that the research said, was, you know: don't let them in and do not give them your energy. So, like I said, when you guys asked, no dwelling upon it and trying to move past it, and like you said, they are not benevolent.

Joe: Mm hm. And keep your eyes open.

Genevieve: Keep your eyes open. Well thanks for taking my call, guys. This is the first time I've actually really, really spoke about it and it feels good to get it off my chest.

Joe: Alright. Thanks for calling in, Genevieve.

Niall: Thanks, Genevieve.

Pierre: Thank you, Genevieve.

Genevieve: Thank you as well, guys. Alright. Bye-bye.

Joe: So, just on this topic of them being benevolent space brothers here to save the planet, this is something, an idea that has been promoted, I think, since the very beginning of the whole phenomenon, in terms of modern times let's say the middle of last century, the famous Roswell incident and everything that has happened since, where it really became mainstream.

There are many religions that have been formed based on the idea of angels or some kind of messenger from God having inspired a human being to form a religion, in many cases directly telling them that this is what they should do because humanity was in trouble and that they were benevolent 'space brothers' - quote, unquote - who are watching and guiding; and this was part of the guidance, to try and help humanity. Essentially they always include prophecies of doom. If you don't get your act together, if you, humanity, do not get your act together quickly then things are going to go south very quickly, and there's nothing we can do about it. But we will do our best because we are, after all, the benevolent space brothers.

There's author, Brad Steiger, for example, interviewed scores of psychics, prophets and contactees for his study of this exact phenomenon. He wrote a book called Revelation: The Divine Fire and he found that people claiming to be in communication with God, angels, spirits of the dead, and spacemen from other planets were all receiving essentially the same information. They all spoke of an impending disaster, things like: "This time for your planet is crucial."

But the problem is that the prophets and seers of the last century, that is the nineteenth century, in the 1800s, were all getting exactly the same spiel from the particular beings or angels or whatever that were relevant to that time. For example, William Miller, who was born 1782, died 1849, founded the Seventh Day Adventists in the belief that the world was coming to an end in 1843. There's also, obviously, a lot of people know about the messages delivered to children in Fatima, Portugal in 1917; and, there's also ... is his name John Smith? Isn't that the guy, a very common name, the Mormon, the founder of the Mormon Church?

Niall: The Church of Latter Day Saints. Yes. Mormons.

Joe: That's pretty much the same story there, where he had a visitation from an angel, a messenger from God, who told him pretty much exactly what we've just described. So, the point here being...

Niall: Well, it makes you wonder right back through history. I mean, the Prophet Mohammed was in a cave and is told all these amazing things, based on some truth, but it ends up forming a mass religion.

Joe: Mm hm.

Pierre: There is an interesting account about malevolent beings under the disguise of saints and other prophets. It's an excerpt from The Wave by Laura Knight-Jadczyk. So let me read it.
The following is a condensed account of a case of demonstrably demonic infestation, obsession and possible ultimate possession, which has been thoroughly documented and described in 'The Demon Syndrome', by Nancy Osborne.

And here is how it starts:

The room was bathed in hazy luminous glow. A strong scent of ozone... a gust of cool wind burst through the open window... It seemed peculiar to Ann that the moon shone so brightly on a cloudy night.

She started to get up. Three dark silhouettes materialized as if entering through the open window... her husband... slept on, oblivious... Two of the figures stayed in the background but the third drew nearer... he was taller than the other two... As the leader advanced the two smaller creatures seemed to float in the background, chattering unintelligibly... the mysterious intruder did not have a complete body... It was clothed in a black flowing shroud with two arms and hands extending from the edges... but they were not human appendages. Not normal, regular arms and hands, but cloven ones like those of a pig. The teeth and mouth seemed inhuman. Four fangs protruded where incisors should have been, and rough, thorn-like projections were the closest semblance of human teeth. Its face had an almond shape and the skin was tinted pink. But it was the eyes that frightened Ann most, for they burned crimson... The creature had only a small amount of wiry hair that stood straight up, and the ears were pointed... there were no feet... the thing moved by gliding and floating...

[And then the entity speaks] 'I have come to take you with me, Ann Haywood. You have been chosen to be one with us. Turn to me and I will give you peace and comfort.' ...a sense of euphoria overcame her. It was a warm, calm sensation... she exerted effort and began to pray again... 'You and your damned God! He's no use to you anymore. Can't you understand? I have come for you. Relax and let go. You will never be sick or worried again. It is a place of peace and warmth such as you experienced minutes ago. So let go, let go!'

As the monster cajoled, it came closer and closer to Ann. Finally its mouth opened wide and began to cover her face with its sticky maw. The heat of its breath and the unbearable stench emanating from it seemed to weaken Ann. The being's saliva felt hideously cold and slimy as the monster sucked her life force out... Ann began to struggle violently... the creature hissed in disappointment: 'I am your peace, and I am your strength. I will take care of you from now on. There is no god.' All three entities left through the bedroom wall and into the night...

In a chilling similarity we find certain images in common which have also appeared in other cases of both alien abduction and demonic infestation.

An astral trip to some unknown, exotic place was standard fare. She saw the Egyptian pyramids... it was then that Ann felt that she was a part of eternity... immortal... safe, happy and free from pain.

[Then] In an interview with a member of the press, Ann Haywood was trying to explain how the Lady transported her in time to different places.
She puts the robe around me and then my mind separates from my body. I can look back and see it lying there. Then we go up through the ceiling, pop out the roof, and fly into space. One night the Lady took me back in time. We were in a foreign country and the people wore old-fashioned clothes. The Lady took on the appearance of a beautiful woman in a blue robe. She performed miracles for them...

[And] Suddenly Ann's face turned ashen and she asked to be excused. Her scream of pain was heard from the bathroom where she had taken refuge. When Ann came out, she was sniffling and holding her abdomen. The Lady had savagely attacked her for revealing that down through history, creatures like the Lady have taken the form of saints. They then use the gullibility of human kind to misguide and misinform people so that they believe they are seeing miracles performed. Ann begged the newsman to delete that portion of the interview. [3]
Niall: About when was this? The 1950s?

Pierre: It was written by Nancy Osborne in 1982. So it's pre-1982.

Joe: That's officially under the name of demonic possession, but it does tie in with what we're talking about here in the sense that this UFO phenomenon is very much a part of human experience in the sense that the people that experience it are interacting with it in a direct way and therefore shaping it, albeit probably, most likely, under the influence of the entity or the energy construct, or whatever you want to call it, itself, i.e., it's you know, because I'm sure this woman, Ann, would not have created such a grotesque and horrible figure as Pierre just described. Because, I mean, seriously, who would willingly do such a thing, surely?

And this ties in with the idea of them taking on images of angels or saints or gods or heavenly beings to, as Pierre just described, manipulate and fool masses of humanity, and also to get people to form religions. So there does seem to be some element of interference on the part of these things in human history, giving it nudges in particular ways, at particular times in history, to serve their own agenda obviously. Not for a benevolent reason but to serve their own agenda.

There's another excerpt from the Cassiopaean transcripts that I mentioned previously that ties into this. It's from 1996, February 3, where a question is asked about the chupacabras, the 'goat sucker', this strange kind of a creature, fairly grotesque looking with spines along its back, and there's various different descriptions of it, and this is another example of the problem in terms of eyewitness reports of these things that it's subjective because it's being formed partly by the observer. Although this entity or being what they're seeing does have a reality in itself. I'll just read little bit of it.
It says: 'Okay, can we ask now about El Chupacabras?'
The answer was: 'Review transcripts re: "window fallers."
Now, 'window fallers' are, is just a term that was coined to describe the appearance of strange and bizarre otherworldly creatures in our reality that have been reported throughout history.
So ... the next question was: 'Is there some way to capture or stop this creature?'
Answer was: 'You do not yet completely understand all of the "mechanics" of the window faller phenomenon. The physicality is entirely transitory and partially dependent upon consciousness variabilities, as well as expectations of witnesses.'
Joe: Yeah. I mean there's other parts to that about... they say: "[...]remember that a window falling represents a cross-energizing of realities, equally represented from each "dimension" in question. In other words, because the dimensional curtain has been "torn," half of one and half of the other contributes to the whole reality."

So I think, in that sense, even the 'window fallers' as we've been describing them, as they're talked about, aren't necessarily exactly the same as, or part of, the UFO phenomenon. They are seen very often, along with 'official' flying saucers and lights in the sky, there is also this concurrence of strange creatures appearing around the same time. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are both one and the same thing, or part of the same thing. Because there's the idea of an 'opening' being created for beings of another density, let's say, to enter into ours, and as a product of that we get the odd weird critter falling in at the same time, right? Or just a natural function of, as has been mentioned previously in transcripts, and Laura has written about in her book High Strangeness, just the natural function of bleed-through, of a flux between densities: third, our density, third density, to another density, fourth density, a higher density, where there's a natural interpenetration there and sometimes it becomes more apparent.

Pierre: It's the link between 'window fallers' and UFO phenomenon via some electromagnetic disturbances which might be linked directly to the window opening that both entities, UFOs and those creatures, window fallers use. Here we have an excerpt from John Keel, Guide. So he reports of one of numerous stories and witness testimonies.

So here we have a sequence of interesting coincidences. A local power failure on May 18; a creature sighting on May 19; and a UFO sighting on May 20. As Ian Fleming's Goldfinger remarked, 'Once is happenstance; twice is coincidence; three times is enemy action.' [4]

So there might be a correlation.

Niall: I think it's better to emphasize what does connect them. Because if you get into saying, well, there are different intentions behind both. So in the case of something like a window faller where something appears by accident as opposed to something flying down to somebody's house, and specifically calling the person out by name, and then communicating something with them. Not just John Keel but there are other authors as well who've looked right back in time and taken reports. A lot of the more modern reports they investigated themselves, and they found the similarities to the point where John Keel, Jacques Vallée, and numerous other researchers are confident that what we're seeing today as the UFO/alien phenomenon is just the form it is taking. It's the same thing going on that would have gone on in older times, your fairies and goblin stories and other 'creatures of the bog'.

Joe: Absolutely, yeah.

Pierre: There might be a case where the link between UFOs, alien beings, hyperdimensional beings and strange creatures might be more obvious. It's the link between aliens and Bigfoot as suggested by John Keel, who writes:
It almost seems as if anomalous earthly creatures have somehow been enlisted (or drafted) into service by the saucers to carry out some mysterious missions.[4]
And he is talking specifically about ABSM, the Abominable Snowman, and what he suggests, and I think it was suggested in the transcripts as well, is that Bigfoot are creatures within our third density world on planet Earth that serve purposes, that are some kind of slaves, for beings of a higher density.

Joe: I'm not sure we can limit it to that because that has been said in the transcripts that they are slaves, doing different tasks on the planet, but there are so many accounts of encounters, people having encounters with Bigfoot, where they do exhibit an extremely otherworldly nature, in the sense that they don't seem to be fully physical, in a sense. I mean they appear, disappear, but at the same time there does seem to be, particularly in the case of Bigfoot, there does seem to be some very 'nuts and bolts' experiences that people have had with them.

There's one particular account. It's probably the most shocking and startling account of a Bigfoot encounter that I've ever read, because usually you hear people just seeing them ambling through the woods, and there's the famous...

Niall: Maybe they get a photo.

Joe: Yeah. There's the famous...

Pierre: Or a movie.

Joe: There's the famous movie of the supposed Bigfoot ambling through the woods, or just various grainy pictures, or whatever. But there are a lot of other pictures, accounts of people having more direct ones. There's accounts of people having been carried away by them, and spent a week in their company, but there is one, and I'm just trying to find it here, that's why I'm taking so long.

There's a story about a group of miners who were out prospecting in the US, and ...

Pierre: Well, there was also a, apparently, a corpse of a Bigfoot found and exhibited for a while during a show. I can read the report here. It's a report by Ivan Sanderson, that was quite an authority concerning strange creatures.
On May 3, 1967, the corpus delicti went on exhibit in a refrigerated van attached to a travelling show in the Midwest. Thousands of people paid thirty-five cents for the privilege of trooping through the van that season and the next. The barker outside made no effort to identify the creature, merely classifying it as another of nature's mysteries. The body was deeply entombed in a huge cake of ice with soft lights focused on it. People entered the van not knowing what they were going to see and left not knowing what they had seen. Finally a herpetologist from Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Mr Terry Cullen, paid his thirty-five cents, wandered into the exhibit, and then rushed to a telephone to call Ivan T Sanderson [...].

So, eventually, Sanderson goes to the place, and starts examining the body.

It was shaped like an adult human male, six feet tall and covered with dark brown hair three to four inches long. Visible portions of the skin were a pale white. The hands were almost human except for the thumbs which were excessively long. The feet measured eight inches wide across the toes; the little toes were almost as big as the others. Thick hair covered the feet. The hands and feet were more human than apelike, the scientists noted.

The left arm was twisted awkwardly upward, and was visibly fractured midway between the wrist and the elbow, giving the appearance of a 'sawdust' doll.' The right arm was twisted also, with the open palm spread flat against the abdomen.

Somebody had apparently shot it in the right eye, and the eye was dangling out of the socket. It also seemed to have been shot in the chest, and Heuvelmans speculated that the creature may have been hit in the left arm when it attempted to defend itself. Its face had a large pug nose, more like that of a Pekingese dog than a gorilla, with large, circular nostrils pointing straight forward. The mouth was wide with no visible lips, and some small teeth were exposed. These were in no way similar to the teeth of chimps or gorillas.

'To me - at least - the most interesting features of all are some folds and wrinkle lines around the mouth just below the cheeks,' Sanderson wrote in Argosy (May 1969). 'These are absolutely human, and are like those seen in a heavy jowled, older white man.'

The neck was so short that it hardly was a neck at all. The face and forehead were hairless. [4]
Joe: Well, that was a dead one, allegedly.

Pierre: Allegedly.

Joe: There's a book ... it's a very...

Pierre: Do you have a live one?

Joe: A live one, yeah, more than one. A little known book written by one of the guys who had firsthand experience of this. It's appropriately called 'I Fought the Apemen of Mount St Helens.' This is a book by Fred Beck and his son, R.A. Beck, and was published privately in 1967. Basically, the two men were prospectors or miners and they were out on location, on a small mountain called Pumy Butte with several other friends.

Early one morning one of them came running to the camp and urged his fellows to follow him back to the creek where he showed them two huge, somewhat human-like tracks some four inches deep into the centre of the sandbar. There were no other tracks anywhere nearby. Either whatever made them had a one hundred and sixty foot stride, the men reasoned, or something dropped from the sky and went back up.

So after they had built their cabin, because they were staying there for a quite a prolonged period of time.

Beck and four other miners working their gold claim would hear a strange thudding, hollow, thumping sound in broad daylight. They could not find the cause though they suspected one of their number might be playing tricks on them. That proved not to be the case, since even when the group were gathered together the sound continued all around them. They thought it sounded as if there was a hollow drum in the earth somewhere and something was hitting it.

Now remember that description.Those were not to be the last strange sounds they would hear either. Early in July 1924 a shrill whistling, apparently emanating from atop a ridge pierced the evening quiet. An answering whistle came from another ridge. These sounds along with a booming and thumping, as if something were pounding its chest, continued every evening for a week.

So the men were now thoroughly unnerved, and they had taken to carrying their rifles around with them when they went anywhere. So Beck, the author of the book, and a man called Hank,were drawing water from the spring when suddenly Hank yelled and raised his gun. He looked up and saw on the other side of little canyon a seven-foot ape-like creature standing next to a pine tree. The creature was a hundred yards away from the men and it dodged behind the tree. When it poked its head around the tree Hank fired three quick shots, spraying bark but apparently not hitting the creature which disappeared from sight.

So they returned to the cabin and discussed it with the other men there, and they all agreed to abandon the cabin. A wise choice! But not, unfortunately, until daybreak, because it was late in the evening and they figured we're not going to go anywhere now, let's wait 'till morning and we're outta here! 'Cause there's hairy monsters peeking around trees at us, that apparently can just appear and disappear at will. I'd get out of there too! They figured it would be risky to stay another night, but it would also be risky to try and make it back to their car in the darkness.

So, at midnight, as you might suspect, they were suddenly awakened to a tremendous thud against the cabin wall. This is a wood, log cabin.

Some of the chinking - that's the wood slats or the wood structure of the cabin - had been knocked loose from between the logs and it fell on Hank and he was pinned underneath it.

Then as they heard ... they started to hear what sounded like many feet tramping and running outside. They grabbed their guns and prepared for the worst. Hanks peered through the open space left by dislodged wood and spotted three apes. From the sound of things there were many more.

The creatures proceeded to pelt the cabin with rocks. Though terribly frightened, the other two miners were huddled in the corner in a state of shock, Beck said that they should fire on the creatures only if they physically attacked the cabin. This would show the creatures that the miners were only defending themselves. But within a very short time the apes were attacking the cabin. Some of them jumped on the roof evidently in an effort to batter it down. In response Beck and Hank fired through the door. They were also forced to brace the door with a long pole taken from the bunk bed since the creatures were furiously attempting to smash the door open. Beck and Hank riddled the door with bullets.

The attacks continued all night, punctuated occasionally by a short quiet interlude. At one point a creature reached through the hole, or a space in the log cabin wall and grabbed an axe by the handle. Beck lunged forward, snatched the blade part and turned it upright so that the ape couldn't get it out through the hole. As he was doing so a bullet from Hank's rifle narrowly missed his hand. The creature withdrew its arm and retreated. Finally, just before daybreak the attack ended. The embattled miners waited for daylight and cautiously stepped outside, guns in hand.

A few minutes later Beck spotted one of the creatures about eighty yards away standing near the edge of the canyon. Taking careful aim he shot three times and watched as it toppled over the cliff and fell down into a gorge four hundred feet below. As quickly as they could they got out of there, heading for Spirit Lake, Washington, and leaving two hundred dollars in supplies and equipment behind. They never returned to claim it.

But the interesting part of this is that Beck, the guy who experienced this and wrote about it, he said of these ape men:They are not entirely of this world. I was, for one, always conscious that we were dealing with supernatural beings, and I know the other members of the party felt the same. Beck believes the creatures now known as Sasquatch or Bigfoot come from another dimension and are a link between human and animal consciousness. They are composed of a substance that ranges between the physical and the psychical, something one more than the other depending on the degree of materialization.

Because of their peculiar nature none will ever be captured, nor will bodies ever be found.And that, of course, is what has happened. Despite Pierre's story about - although we can't dismiss the possibility that one has been found or something, some unknown creature that doesn't fit into Darwin's theory has been found. But whatever appearing in your local newspaper with nice pretty pictures and a video on YouTube are pretty slim, given the threat such a discovery would pose to mainstream science and orthodoxy as it goes here on this planet.

Pierre: I think it's not mutually exclusive. There is some more about this quest for the real identity of the Yeti. Recently, DNA tests were conducted on some unidentified hair allegedly belonging to the Yeti. And this Professor of Molecular Biology at Oxford, Brian Sykes, who conducted this test on this unusual hair. When the samples came back, one of the most promising hair samples, Bigfoot samples from around the world, it appeared that these were - it was DNA from another bear. From a bear but not as we know it. Actually it was an exact match for an ancient polar bear that died in Svalbard, that's up in Norway, at least 4,000 years ago, and probably more like 100,000 years ago. So does it suggest that it's an old bear, maybe? Or may be an ancient bear. Or maybe it suggests that the DNA of an ancient bear was used by this new kind of creature, Bigfoot.

Niall: The follow-up to the story Pierre told before that about the body they allegedly found and then put on display, it ended up becoming, like all of these other stories, a controversy, because somebody then came in and was able to show plausible evidence that it wasn't real. And then at some point it was switched with something else and so on and so forth. My point being that in all cases, even where sincere researchers try to apply scientific analysis to them, the phenomenon has a weird way of eluding anything approaching material verification. It slips away.

Pierre: What happened after Sanderson made his expertise, his detailed examination of the corpse, he asked the owner of the corpse to check it again to make x-rays and detailed analysis, and the owner declined, and said he had a wax model made and everything could be conducted on the wax model. And so again the smoking gun was not found, as you said, in every other cases.

Joe: The smoke from that smoking gun blew away.

Niall: That story about the cabin shootout reminds me of a really, really harrowing account from Karla Turner. I think it was the event that turned her on to the subject. She was a school teacher at the time - or something like a school administrator sort of thing - and then either some neighbours or relatives, I'm not sure, had this awful encounter, where night after night, I think, for about a week they were visited by something like a craft and beings came out, and terrified them. I mean they would surround the house. There were lights and weird things going on that just terrified them. There was a houseful of kids and the natural response of, I think, the father to defend them, was to shoot at it. And this just made it worse.

Joe: Made them mad.

Niall: They ended up, I think they ended up going mad. They needed a lot of psychotherapy and in the process that's where she became involved, Karla Turner, and she learned about hypnotherapy and started studying the subject. And she ended up attracting, whatever way you look at it, a lot of harrowing cases, really traumatic cases. She just went right in there to the deep end and said, "What is going on here?"

Joe: Well, just on the mechanics of it, I know it's very hard to, for anybody given what we've already said about it, to try and pin down if there is any kind of a nuts and bolts aspect to it. But one thing that's always mentioned is these creatures with UFO occupants, alleged occupants, is that there's very often a smell, a very strong and foul smell associated with them. People often liken it to sulphur or rotten eggs or some rotting flesh, or garbage, or some just really bad smell associated with these things, and you see that time and time again.

But one other aspect of these kind of encounters is as I just read in that account of the gold miners, was that the noise, the thumping, kind of booming noise that they heard repeatedly, that they said they thought it sounded as if there was a hollow drum in the earth somewhere, and something was hitting it.

Now, I'm just going to play a little excerpt from, this is a reading from John Keel's book The Mothman Prophecies, and it will lead me into a little pet theory, and you can take it for what you want.
Gwendolin Martino and her daughter returned from Europe in January and visited the Christiansens a few days after Tiny rode off in his darkened Cadillac. At 3 A.M. on January 13, 1967, Gwen and Connie, who were sharing a room, were awakened by a loud sound seeming to come from directly overhead. The sounds were distant at first, like someone hammering on metal with a rubber mallet or, possibly, walking over a metal surface. The noises grew steadily louder until they were deafening. "The whole house seemed to shake," Gwen said. When she started to get up to investigate, the sound stopped instantly. As soon as she was back in bed, they began again. The two women debated whether they should wake up Ed Christiansen, a heavy sleeper. Gwen started to get out of bed again, and again the noises stopped. Finally they faded away.

Two evenings later Mr. and Mrs. Christiansen returned home to find their children in a very distraught state. They had heard the strange hammering sound again, followed by heavy footsteps crunching through the thick snow outside the house. Connie's nineteen-year-old boyfriend was present and he had looked out a window in time to see a tall figure hurrying away from the house. It was wearing a long white cape and when it reached a five-foot-high fence it leaped effortlessly over it and disappeared on the other side.

The next morning Ed Christiansen examined the area for footprints. He found a set of large human tracks deeply embedded in the snow, leading to the fence and continuing on the other side. These footprints went on to another building some distance away and stopped abruptly at the wall of the structure. There were no other footprints around the building, an old abandoned shed, and the witnesses were puzzled as to where the person could have gone.

Like our hairy monsters, little green Martians, and Mothman, the caped intruder had vanished into nothingness. [2]
So the relevant point there is this sound that these people heard before having this bizarre experience with some kind of a strange entity, humanoid creature, that is unknown to most people, that behaves in very strange and frightening ways. Again, in that excerpt from The Mothman Prophecies, the sound was a metallic sound, like someone hammering on a metal table, and it kind of ties in with this booming sound. I don't know if anybody has read the book called Hunt for the Skinwalker. It's about a series, over many years, of bizarre events taking place at a ranch called Skinwalker Ranch in north-eastern Utah.

Skinwalker was a name that the Native Americans in the area had given to this thing that they had known about for many years, although it was more than just one thing. There was a series of bizarre experiences all very closely related to the kind of stuff Keel talks about, and it included a bit of everything almost.

The people who owned the ranch, who moved into it, and to their dismay found out that it was a bad idea; they were called the Gormans, and one night they were walking out around the ranch. This was during the first experiences they had. They had seen something, a light moving across their property, moving up and down over fences. They thought it was a camper van, and then they saw that when it got to the fence it just floated up, across, and back down again. So they figured that's either a flying camper van or it's something else.

So they were out walking one night, and this was just one experience, similar experience they had in terms of what they heard. They said:
Tonight there was no rain and the Gormans chatted quietly as they walked. Suddenly a loud metallic sound came from their right, cutting through the night time stillness. Startled, they stopped abruptly. Both had acute hearing. A few seconds later they heard the noise again. It sounded like metal being banged on metal, and it seemed to be coming from about a hundred feet above them in the darkness. [5]
This was immediately after, or immediately before, I think, they saw, either before or after they saw something very, very strange on their property. And, when I read all of these accounts, and there are many different accounts of this, and they all seem to coincide with this idea of there being some kind of a metallic booming, scraping noise associated with high strangeness and UFO phenomenon, and I pretty quickly thought of something that we've talked about before.

[Plays audio recording of 'strange sky sounds']

So as you probably know, those are the sounds of the strange noises in the sky that have been plaguing the planet in many different areas over the past, what, probably three years now, maybe, approximately when they were first reported. I think some of them actually go back quite a bit longer than that, but just spottily here and there.

Pierre: About 2009.

Joe: But even before that I think there are some YouTube videos of people saying that, just here and there, but in terms of it becoming more intense and much more widespread, of course.

Niall: John Keel has catalogued them going back to the eighteenth or nineteenth century.

Pierre: The Trumpets of Jericho, and the Trumpets of Revelation...

Joe: Yeah. Absolutely. But, one of the interesting things, it's just a piece of trivia, is that some of the sounds that you heard there were heard over Chelyabinsk about eighteen months before the meteor that exploded there earlier this year. It was in September 2011 that these noises were recorded. I thought that was interesting.

So, the question being, that now you two have to answer, is: How does this translate to, if it does, the appearance of UFOs and bizarre creatures, because it's very often associated with them? And also, what relevance does it have to the strange sounds that we've been hearing of late, in the past few years?

But in the absence of, as far as we know, in the absence of any high strangeness, are they related? Or am I just, you know, delusional?!

Pierre: There's a possible explanation. There's a possible correlation. It's tentative, it's not sure, but Colin Keay, an Australian physicist, showed that electrophonics, i.e. the sound produced by, in some cases by meteors, they can be produced as well by aurora borealis and earthquakes, basically extremely low frequency waves that are being transduced by a pair of glasses, by some rocks in the ground, by any kind of transducer. Because extremely low frequencies are not audible. They are outside the ear range, hearing range of humans.

Now, Colin Keay explains how those ELFs are generated. He says that meteors, aurora borealis, some kinds of solar flares, some kinds of cosmic disturbance, create instability, resonance, or unusual patterns in the geomagnetic field, i.e., the magnetic field of the planet.

And now, a tentative explanation to correlate window fallers, UFO phenomena and those Trumpets of Jericho-like sounds, is that both are connected to a disturbance in the electromagnetic field. And another element that would tend, that is going this way, is the Philadelphia experiment, because the way this U.S. ship disappeared for minutes was after subjecting it to a very powerful electromagnetic field; and indeed, according to witnesses, the ship disappeared for a while. It came back, but when it came back some of the crew members didn't come back. Most of them who came back turned totally crazy, and some of them came back within the structure of the ship, i.e., their body was mixed with the walls, with the floors of the ship.

So electromagnetic fields, electromagnetic disturbances seems to be a common denominator to those seemingly unrelated events.

Niall: Electromagnetism.

Joe: So electromagnetism is what's going on?

Pierre: It might not be the root cause, but electromagnetism might be one of the consequences of a window opening. It might not be the very fundamental process that leads to those events.

Niall: Well, Morris Jessup was another researcher and he gathered a lot of data from the nineteenth century, and he found, he plotted UFO/high strangeness events on charts and graphs and compared them over time, and he found that there was a noticeable flap around the time that the great comet of 1843 appeared. Now, he didn't quite get to asking the question, but you could see where he was going in tracking environmental events with UFO and other high strangeness events.

Of course they didn't have... well, they actually did! The first flying saucer mention was in 1866, so it's not a strictly twentieth century phenomenon.

John Keel was also cataloguing things over time, and he found that things occurred in, I suppose cycles, and they occurred in clusters, and they occurred with environmental events. So you might get an outbreak of tornadoes that would jive with a particular UFO flap.

Joe: Well there you go, that then also ties into kind of what we're saying.

Pierre: It does.

Joe: It's tied directly to global warming! Is that what you're saying? Because clearly, well, what global warming is really about, or what's really going on in terms of our climate and the weird weather we've been having, the tornadoes, the hurricanes, the typhoons, in terms of solar radiation or cosmic radiation interacting with the planet, and how it might disturb the electromagnetic something around the planet.

Niall: It's a good model to start from, but we still come back to the specific question here of the strange sounds, so-called 'sky noises', over Chelyabinsk occurring eighteen months before. But I think what Keay was talking about was the electrophonic sounds of an incoming body that happens more or less at the same time that the object is seen in the sky. Eighteen months before is something else.

Pierre: Yeah. But remember in Keay's reasoning there are two factors. There is the source, electromagnetic disturbance, i.e., aurora borealis, cometary bodies, earthquakes; and there was also the transducer, and the strange transducer is location-specific. So what it might suggest, I'm not sure there's the definite answer, but what it might suggest is that in Chelyabinsk, maybe in the ground, there is a transducer, something that transforms those electromagnetic, extremely low frequency disturbances into audible sounds. So maybe within 1 months apart there are two sources, maybe two different sources, that led to the activation of this local Chelyabinsk transducer.

Let me go back to this correlation, this possible correlation, between electromagnetic disturbances and strange phenomena. John Keel - him again! - mentioned three cases, very odd cases actually, suggesting a strong correlation between lightning strikes and window fallers. In A.D. 856...
[...] during a storm which filled the place with such darkness that members of the congregation could hardly see each other, in a church in Trier, Prussia was suddenly invaded by 'a dog of immense size'.
Second case:
[...] in the church at Andover, hence England, on Christmas Eve 1171. It dashed around the altar just as the priest was struck by lightning from within the church and killed.

A gigantic pig-like thing, a monstrous pig, that was reported again and again in a long series of perplexing cases. And third case is, third case:
A Tudor historian named John Stowe recorded the following in the sixteenth century: 'In the reign of King John thunder and lightning killed many men and women, and children, burned cornfields, and fishes of strange shape, armed with helmets and shields, like armed men were caught, only they were much bigger...' [4]
Yes. You heard correctly despite my iffy accent: giant fish clad in armours!

Niall: Of course, when it comes to tales from Ye Olde Times, nowadays people can go, "Well whatever, they were..." It's like Chinese whispers. By time it has reached down to us of course it's changed a little. But of course, today we've got, well not so much today, but certainly in the last forty years, an increasing number of crop circles for which there is no known explanation. Of course, the phenomenon is just ridiculed, or people try to imitate it and say: "Look how I made my own. Obviously they are man-made."

But we have the idea here that there's something part natural, part directed; where you suspect that whatever intelligence is behind some of these phenomena, is using the natural/supernatural forces of nature to make some of these things manifest. So, for example, you get clusters of UFO events happening on certain days of the week. John Keel discovered that Wednesdays are the high point for UFO appearances, and I think Tuesdays are the lowest. It pretty much goes from Wednesday's the peak and then it drops off and comes back to Tuesday and then it starts again. That's a weekly cycle. And then there was a monthly cycle. And that over a year you could plot things as well.

Pierre: 1966.

Niall: And that, that's got you thinking. Why? That has sort of a natural beat to it. There must be some...

Pierre: And locations as well. You have this time cycle and you have some locations that are very prone to strange phenomena.

Niall: But, it's still, the jury's still out there because Keel also noticed where you had a UFO flap, maybe there are a hundred reports in one night from across the U.S., which he was mainly studying, they would only appear in maybe three states, and within those states they would only appear within certain counties, to the point where they actually stopped right at the county boundary, the border. And nothing happened in the next state or the next state or county, at all. But it had freaked out everyone left of the line! So that suggests that there's something that was aware of man-made...

Joe: Yeah. That's interacting directly with human consciousness in some way, and that's why it becomes extremely problematic in terms of trying to find some objective reality to these things. I don't doubt that there is, but ultimately the true reality I think goes beyond physicality, because the phenomenon itself suggests that, based on all the experience and the way these things manifest and appear to just - I mean there are videos of UFOs, i.e., flying saucer-type craft, appearing. Actually, what's the opposite of 'dissolve'?

Niall: Manifesting.

Joe: Yes, manifesting. It simply grows out of nothing in the sky to become a UFO, sits there for a while and then just shrinks. It doesn't move anywhere. It shrinks into invisibility. Now you could say it's cloaked, or de-cloaked, but it seems to grow and shrink and grow, as it appears and disappears. So there's a theory that I had and I'm just going to throw it out there as well. About meteors...

John Keel mentioned the way that these things tend to manifest or materialize. He watched, he saw many of them himself and had reports from thousands of other people. He says that:
In many instances the witnesses had clearly seen the objects in the process of materialization or dematerialization. A glow is first observed, usually a reddish glow marking the emergence of the object from the invisible band of the spectrum into infrared and then into the narrow band of visible light. Or, if the object is passing through the visible band to the higher frequencies it is cyan, a bluish-green, before it fades into blue, hard to see at night, and then enters the ultraviolet range. [2]
So, when I read that, I thought of meteorites as well, in terms of how they are seen in the sky, and whether or not our question in past shows about meteors and are they tracking them, aren't they tracking them, how there are so many. The idea maybe that these fireballs which have been abundant in our skies over the past few years at an increasing rate, as anybody can check on the American Meteor Society website [6], the graph just has spiked up over the past seven or eight years. The idea that maybe they are not trackable because, in a similar fashion to the 'UFOs', these things originate directly in our atmosphere and then travel through it. They don't enter our atmosphere from space. In the same way that extraterrestrials don't travel through space and time from many, many years, or from light years away to get here to bring a message of hope and love for the population. That they simply appear here instantaneously, and disappear instantaneously. That maybe the fireballs may have a similar kind of reality or nature to them.

Pierre: And there's another similarity, now that you mentioned the two cases, UFO and meteorites. It had the same in both cases to be an influence to be exerted by the observer. Many reports mention that some witnesses saw it, some other witnesses nearby didn't see the UFO. And in the case of meteorites we mentioned this famous case of this guy from Serbia, or Bosnia, who brought meteorites on his house, maybe six or seven times. So, that's quite interesting.

By the way, this notion of frequency change, because what you describe, Joe, is a progressive change in frequency from lower than infrared to higher than ultraviolet, such that there is a transition in frequency, and during part of this transition for a while, the entity is visible. And, actually, the name 'spectre', that comes from there. That's what John Keel suggests. A spectre, it comes from the word 'spectrum', in the visible spectrum because of those frequency changes, colour changes, reported numerously by witnesses.

Niall: I think, Joe, you could be onto a winner here.

Joe: I don't know! Well, proving it, Niall, is...

Niall: Proving or not, I don't care about 'proving' because I'm just collecting data. And what I've noticed is that people see a lot of fireballs and they go: "Well it can't be a fireball because it was moving too slow." Or, they say "It can't be a fireball because I saw it change direction." Or, "It can't be a fireball because I heard it." Now you've given an explanation of electrophonic meteors suggesting that - again, we're speculating - there is Keay's research, but he also is kind of feeling around in the dark because, actually, the sound most reported by people, perhaps unaware that a meteor has caused an explosion in the area, is that they heard a 'thumping' noise. Is it the same kind? I don't know, but we'll come back to this thumping noise.

I, myself, have experienced with you, Joe, when we heard this strange sound that we thought was something falling on the roof above, and others reported exactly the same thing. And then we speculated that it might have been an overhead fireball explosion. Sure enough there was a report about it the next day. But I think they're very - I think if there's a top candidate for high strangeness, then fireballs, meteors and comets are it. We don't know what comets are. We know what they're not, which is what NASA tells us they are.

Joe: At least they can be observed way out in space. I know asteroids and meteors can be observed from space as well but I'm just thinking in terms of this increase in the fireballs and meteorites in our atmosphere that have also landed on the ground. Where they come from and why, no-one's talking about them. No one in officialdom is talking about this increase. I mean it's right there on that semi-official American Meteor Society. It's not piquing anyone's interest, it's not making anyone sit up and take notice apparently, at least not officially, they're not talking about it. So, I don't know why.

Pierre: Here we are reaching a fundamental question about the nature of our reality. As mentioned during previous shows, it seems, history recalls, strongly suggest that there is a strong correlation between cometary, high cometary activity periods and periods of strong oppression. So, are comets only bodies governed by Keplerian laws? By gravity and physical, mechanical laws? Or do humans exert some influence on those seemingly uncorrelated areas, uncorrelated with the human psyche, the human mind?

Joe: Well it's kind of interesting in what we've just talked about in terms of the UFO phenomenon and window fallers and strange creatures, and there being a direct interaction between the observer and the thing being observed; and each are mutually moulded and shaped by that interaction of consciousness.

It brings us back to the idea of our entire reality being a function, or created by human consciousness. And it ties the UFO phenomenon to meteors and fireballs and cosmic catastrophe in terms of destruction of the planet at times when the 'mandate of heaven', i.e., when it's lost, i.e., when you have a corrupt regime in power across the globe. That this brings on cosmic catastrophe and destruction for the human race and for most of the planet. There's obviously a consciousness connection there.

There's something going on with human consciousness, with human awareness, or the lack of it, let's say, that brings this on. It's not just about a 'something happening out there'. It's the fact that people are apathetic or acquiesce in this corruption and bring on their own destruction in that way. So the two are linked in that sense, in this overarching idea that it really is all about your level of awareness and your consciousness, in the sense, in every level, in terms of: are you conscious about what's going on, on the planet? Are you aware, are you giving credence, are you giving objective reality its due? Are you recognizing it? Or are you caught up in illusion?

I mean someone who's caught up in illusion and interacts with UFO phenomenon, or a UFO or a spaceship, and projects all sorts of things onto it will get exactly what they want. But they'll be food because they are projecting their own subjective ideas and imaginings onto something that is only too willing to engage in that kind of an illusion to your own detriment. In the same way people imagine that the world is fine and (skip) corrupt politicians, but it'll all change and they ignore the fact that there's these increasing fireballs, there's increasing chaos on a climate level, all of these signs and they're ignoring that and projecting an illusion onto it, that everything is fine. It's all about the projection of illusion versus what we all should be doing which is standing up and taking stock and recognizing objective reality.

I mean what do you expect if you just bury your head in the sand? You're going to get a meteorite on the butt!

Niall: I think we need to - here we're talking about something we've suggested, which is that it's a collective suffering that sends out a signal and/or is simply picked up by the planet and it manifests as environmental stress that's creating these so-called earth changes and climate change that we're experiencing. Now, that suffering is fundamental, it seems, to whatever is behind the so-called UFO phenomenon. Many abductees have reported this and the people who have studied it have come to the same kind of conclusion.

Someone who predates John Keel, someone who John Keel in turn admired very much, was called Charles Fort. And he, long before the days of the internet of course, at the turn of the twentieth century, he was gathering stories from all over the world, news clippings. Just odd things, and he called it, well he called a book after it, called Damned Data. Namely there are events like high strangeness, like we've been discussing, that just don't seem to fit anywhere. They've been discarded, explained away. I'm going to quote from one of Keel's books here:
In the end Charles Fort recognized the subtle warp and woof of human history when he stated, "I think we are property. Someone owns this earth. All others warned off." The gods were, at one time, very real, and their directives to mankind were not initiated out of concern for the human condition but calculated to protect the earth itself! Man was caught up as the pawn in some dark and forbidding celestial chess game. Events that seemed totally senseless to one generation would suddenly acquire important meaning several generations later. We try to rationalize our predicament with inventive theologies and cosmologies. We rewrote history until it matched our ideals and concealed our often ugly motivations. Our true history became myth and our myths became our substitute for history. [7]
And, for John Keel then, he did his own studies of tens of thousands of stories and the conclusion he came to was a pretty funny one but it's got some very serious implications, namely that whatever is behind all of this he calls a 'Cosmic Trickster'.

He noticed that it would play with people. A number of - one case that comes to mind is where contactees in the '50s were told that, "We're communicating with you because we have a special message we want you to tell the others." And, of course, people would be, like, "Wow! Me? OK!" - those that fell for it, anyway.

And they would often set them up by predicting an event for them. So, on such and such a date this will happen in New York City. And it happened! And the guy created a bit of a stir, because maybe he'd warned some people, so next time there were like ten thousand more people listening to what he's going to say. Well, he was told the next prediction, and he would 'reveal' it, but it would't happen. And maybe the third time it was an accurate prediction, and so on. There's this toying with people.

Pierre: And there is - human beings tend to make shortcuts. If a higher entity give you a true prophecy you tend to go, to reach some conclusions too quickly, and you think: "Yeah. He was able to give me good predictions so it's a higher being. It's a good being."

But you can have a higher being that is malevolent and does a way to use truth, when it suits him, in order to lure you, to make you believe and have confidence in this being that will trick you even better after giving this true prophecy.

Joe: Yeah. I mean cosmic tricksters, maybe - I never read it like that description although it fits in certain areas, but the stories and the history as far as we can get the objective data relating to this phenomenon, the word 'trick' isn't strong enough.

I'll give you one example. Well, I could give you much worse examples, but I'll give you one example. This is in West Virginia, near Point Pleasant.
On the night of March 5, [1967] a Red Cross Bloodmobile was travelling along Route 2, which runs parallel to the Ohio River. Beau Shertzer, twenty-one, and a young nurse had been out all day collecting human blood and now they were heading back to Huntington, West Virginia, with a van filled with fresh blood. The road was dark and cold and there was very little traffic. As they moved along a particularly deserted stretch, there was a flash in the woods on a nearby hill and a large white glow appeared. It rose slowly into the air and flew straight for their vehicle.

"My God! What is it?" the nurse cried.

"I'm not going to stick around to find out," Shertzer answered, pushing his foot down on the gas.

The object effortlessly swooped over the van and stayed with it. Shertzer rolled down his window and looked up. He was horrified to see some kind of arm or extension being lowered from the luminous thing cruising only a few feet above the Bloodmobile.

"It's trying to get us!" the nurse yelled, watching another arm reach down on her side. It looked as if the flying object was trying to wrap a pincers-like device around the vehicle. Shertzer poured on the horses but the object kept pace with them easily. Apparently they were saved by the sudden appearance of headlights from approaching traffic. As the other cars neared, the object retracted the arms and hastily flew off. [2]
That's fast food? Meals on wheels? Because there is, obviously, the whole topic of cattle mutilations which are invariably drained of blood, and people seeing these lights around at the time that many cattle were subsequently found dead with all sorts of incisions and holes cut in them and drained of blood. And there is also the lesser known case or cases of similar things happening to humans.

So, on the topic of whether or not these things are benevolent, I think there's a decidedly big 'No' answer to that question. And 'Cosmic Tricksters'? I'm not sure that quite gets it!

Niall: I was thinking in terms of...

Joe: I know, but I'm just disagreeing with Keel's description of it. He didn't have access to all of the information, or of the theories at least and obviously it's difficult for many people to go to where we go, and have gone, and Laura has gone before anyone else, and has stuck with it since then.

Pierre: It's full of realization, but obviously evidence tends to suggest that we are not on the top of the food chain.

Joe: Well that's the question we asked at the beginning of the show! Or that's the title of it. The blurb for the show was: "Are we at the top of the food chain?" Well, if there's things in this reality, that as evidence suggests there is and has been for a very long time, that can appear and disappear at will, and can manipulate humans and large numbers of humans, take them away, never return them, do things to animals and human beings that are horrifying; and also they come in the company of other bizarre creatures that terrify human beings as well and are impervious to human weapons... Well, then, all of that combines to suggest that, yeah, there's something above us that has been around for a long time and we're definitely not at the top of the food chain.

Pierre: What we see below in the food chain, you see first density of vegetables, and second density you have animals. Either of which of those in third density of us humans and we eat animals and serve them (inaudible). So in fourth density there might be what we call 'higher beings' who eat humans. Or do they eat blood or serum, or negative emotions, or a mix of all that?

Niall: Well, according to the Cs, blood plasma - and this isn't their main sustenance. This is where it gets a bit tricky. They don't substantially rely on farming people for food. Their main sustenance would be emotions, specifically negative emotions. This is the main sustenance for them. But recently, there are cases where abductees have reported that people are taken, eaten, cut up on the butcher's table.

Pierre: Babies sliced.

Niall: And worse.

Joe: Well, the predominant, maybe because it sticks in people's memory, but I think it's also the case in most UFO abduction experiences, whether it's physical abduction or whatever it is, when people disappear for several days and come back with a story to tell, it's almost always not a very pleasant story. And the one that has come into popular awareness is the whole idea of being examined. In one sense I'm glad that that has actually gained traction more so than the space brothers' 'love and light', the idea of when you're abducted by aliens, such as they are, that not very nice things happen to you. You're put on a table, examinations, all that kind of stuff. A good movie to watch on that, there's a book about it as well, it's called Fire in the Sky, there's a movie called Fire in the Sky, based on the book, and it's about an abduction experience and it portrays that quite well.

But, again, as we mentioned, this isn't happy territory in the sense of really looking at it. Back in 1994, in fact the very first Cassiopaean transcript just offered this information where Laura asked:
Q: (L) Bob Lazar[5] referred to the fact that aliens supposedly refer to humans as containers. What does this mean?
A: Storage for later use.
Q: (L) Use by for what?
A: 94 per cent.
Q: (L) 94 per cent of what?
A: Of all population.
Q: (L) What do you mean?
A: All are containers; 94 per cent will be used.
Q: Used for what?
A: Consumption.
Q: You mean eaten?
A: Total consumption.
Q: (L) What do you mean by consumption? Ingested?
A: Consumed for ingredients.
Q: Ingredients for what?
A: New race. Important. 13 years about when happens.
Q: (L) Why are humans consumed?
A: They are used for parts.
Q: (L) We don't understand. How can humans be used for parts?
A: Reprototype. The vats exist. Missing persons often go there and especially missing children.
Q: (L) Do we have any protection?
A: Some.
Q: (L) How can we protect ourselves and our children?
A: Inform them. Don't hide the truth from children.
Q: (L) How does truth protect us?
A: Awareness protects. Ignorance endangers.
Q: (L) Why tell children such horrible things?
A: They need to know.
Q: (L) Are the aliens using our emotions and energies?
A: Correct; and bodies too. Each earth year 10 percent more children are taken.
Q: (L) Do they suffer?
A: Some. [8]
A: Bits of children's organs removed while wide awake - kidneys crushed - then next feet - next jaw examined on table - tongues cut off - bones stress tested - pressure placed on heart muscle until it burst.
Q: Why are you saying these awful things?! [9]
Well, the answer was already given: Awareness protects...

Niall: ...Ignorance endangers. It's harrowing, but it makes sense. I mean, look what we do to get foie gras.

Joe: Exactly. If you're going to posit the idea that we're not at the top of the food chain, and as Pierre described, there is a chain, then look at animals and the animal kingdom below us. We are humans and we eat animals. Look, as you say, what, particularly in this modern, corrupt system, look at factory farming and the way animals are treated in that sense. I mean the very fact that they are eaten may be horrible to some people - that they are tortured, essentially, for years sometimes, before they are eaten is unconscionable. And if we're not the top of the food chain, and there is a level above us, then why would anybody insist that 'as above, so below' does not apply?

But, we're not trying to say that, we're not trying to scare anybody, we're just saying this a theory, this is an idea that's out there, it's borne out by some evidence, but again...

Niall: It's borne out by a lot of the testimony of contactees who - OK, they have their certain memories of what happened. Or they don't. Maybe they just have something wrong with them but they can't remember. So they end up going to therapy and eventually, if they're lucky, they'll wind up doing hypnotherapy. It's only by peeling back some of these screen memories that these things come out. And the reason why we think there's a lot of traction to what they say is because they say a lot of the same things. None of them know each other. If you listen to some videos on YouTube of people going through these sessions, they are in a hypnotic state so they're not actually in the extreme pain but you can they are viscerally really shaken up by what they are describing. There is no reason to think that all of them are acting this out and making it up.

Joe: Yeah. And in terms of informing children, I'm not sure - obviously you don't turn round and read that as a bedtime story to your child or even sit down and tell them about it in that way. But I think children need to be informed about the world in general, and the state of the world in general, because that kind of activity is reflected in our world today.

So simply informing children and anybody, adults as well, that don't know about the state of the world, and trying to point out what's actually happening on our planet, not in terms of, necessarily, the whole phenomenon, but in terms of the corruption and the greed and the brutality and the inhumanity being perpetrated by a corrupt elite, a psychopathic elite, against ordinary human beings; I mean that certainly is the first place to start and that maybe essentially a facsimile of that kind of an awareness.

You don't need to go into the gory details about aliens putting people on tables and stuff but all children should be made aware of the world they live in and the state of the world they live in. I mean none of them should be imbued with any kind of delusions about happy, fluffy bunnies skipping through the grass because that's not what's happening around them. Because you're making them into food by instilling illusions and delusions in them about the state of the world, and lying to them.

Pierre: And things, information can be disclosed progressively, in a specific form according to the age of each one, to the maturity of this one, or each one. It's not black and white.

Niall: Laura has often said: "Who needs aliens when you have psychopaths?" And indeed, on this level it's well documented that a lot of psychopaths engage in all of this kind of stuff and more. I mean there's stuff out there involving cannibalistic behaviour. There are these stories about all kinds of meetings with children involved. and, of course, we've got paedophile networks in high places.

Joe: Absolutely. Forget about aliens! We're not at the top of the food chain amongst our own species, if you allow for the idea of there being an intra-species predator known as psychopaths who have taken over the world. They are essentially animals in human form, evolved animals in human form. They are predators in human form, so don't even go beyond into hyperdimensions or anything. We are not at the top of the food chain amongst our own species. There is a species above us, if only in an overt kind of physical way, i.e., they are in positions of power in governments, etcetera, around the world. And they prey on people and prey on children as much as anything else.

Pierre: I think those two topics, higher malevolent beings and psychopaths fit together quite well. If you imagine those higher malevolent beings having this kind of negative emotion farm that humanity is, and I suppose wanting to minimise their efforts, the best agent to maximise pain generation on planet Earth is by introducing psychopaths. Otherwise you face a paradox. How are human beings, without this higher malevolent beings factor, without this psychopathic factor, how can you explain that, as human beings, after centuries and centuries of progress, of research, of accumulating knowledge, we still have today this amazingly high level of pain, suffering and negative emotions?

Niall: Yeah. It's something that we've often wondered about. War. Jealousy. Greed. Covetousness. These things are not natural to people. People left to their own devices move away from them because their natural inclination is towards just living well by others, co-operating. Something that bridges the two, possibly, is - this is a quote from a QFS, Quantum Future School, study that was put together on psychopaths about ten years ago:
We are acutely aware that pathocracy [that's the state of a corrupt elite running the show] is not a phenomenon confined to our 'present time'. It is a trans-millennial evolutionary strategy that, step by step, has brought us to our present position. What emerges in the present day is just Machiavellian diversion that focuses the attention of those who are easily deceived. This is reinforced by the clappers in the audience and there seems to be an entire army of psychopaths among us whose job it is to act as vectors of attention and direction.

As Wilhelm Reich wrote:
"Why did man, through thousands of years, wherever he built scientific, philosophic or religious systems, go astray with such persistence and with such catastrophic consequences? The answer lies somewhere in that area of our existence which has been so heavily obscured by organised religion and official science and put out of our reach. Hence it probably lies in the relation of the human being to the cosmic energy that governs him."
The same question is posed by Castaneda's Don Juan.
"I want to appeal to your analytical mind," Don Juan said. "Think for a moment and tell me how you would explain the contradiction between the intelligence of man the engineer, and the stupidity of his systems of belief? Or the stupidity of his contradictory behaviour?"

'Sorcerers or wise men of old believed that the predators have given us our systems of belief, our ideas of good and evil, our social mores. They are the ones who set up our hopes and expectations and dreams of success or failure. They have given us greed and cowardice. The predators make us complacent, routinary and egomaniacal. In order to keep us obedient and meek and weak, the predators engaged themselves in a stupendous manoeuvre. Stupendous, of course, from the point of view of a fighting strategist. A horrendous manoeuvre from the point of view of those who suffer it."

"They gave us their mind. Do you hear me? The predators gave us their mind which becomes our mind."

"Through the mind which is, after all, their mind, the predators inject into the lives of human beings whatever is convenient for them."
Joe: People have always interpreted that in terms of hyperdimensional evil archons, or whatever, ruling this planet, that it's all a non-physical type of thing. And that may be the case but you see how it maps perfectly to the idea of psychopaths and the ponerization process where you have this contractile, extremely greedy, voracious appetite for just feeding on other human beings and exploiting them. You see this among the psychopathic individuals, psychopaths in positions of power, and they spread that "morality" throughout the society that they govern and that they have control over.

So, just listening to that, and imagining it, or interpreting it as the predator's mind or the predator giving us their mind, sure, that's happened. Look at the way the entire population has been programmed by the media and by corporations. I mean it all applies directly to psychopathy in power.

Niall: Something you said at the beginning of the show concerning who does or doesn't see a UFO or some demonic entity. So is the person hypnotized into seeing it? Well, hypnosis is the default setting. In this context all are asleep and all are in this hypnotic state onto which the predator projects whatever it is that they know the outcome will be, because they know how we're programmed.

Joe: Well it also ties in to Gurdjieff's comment about the magician coming along and hypnotising the sheep ...

Niall: By convincing them that they're ...

Joe: That they're all just wonderful animals, eagles...

Niall: Lions...

Joe: Lions, etcetera. When in fact he's just controlling them for later use, in the only way that a sheep and animals on this planet are used, and human beings seem to be in a similar position, in their own way.

Is that a happy enough note to finish on?

We're sorry if we depressed anybody here tonight but we hope we gave you something to think about at least. Of course all this is, by definition, unverifiable, but all of the evidence points to what we've been saying being close enough to what's going on. Everybody can think about it for themselves and make up their own minds and do their own research, most importantly, and come to their own conclusions.

Pierre: It might be an ugly truth but that's very probably the truth, and as the saying goes: the truth shall set you free.

Joe: Yes. As contradictory as that might sound, this particular truth, yeah. At the very least it will protect you and maybe, ultimately, set you free in some way or other.

Anyway, we'll leave it there for this week, folks.

Thanks to Genevieve for calling in. We've had the usual gang of chatters all having lots of fun on our chatroom and we will be back next week with another show as yet to be announced. So, thanks for listening and until then, have a good one.

Niall: See you next week.

Pierre: Bye-bye. Au revoir.


[1] Albert K Bender: Flying Saucers and the Three Men
[2] John Keel: The Mothman Prophecies
[3] Laura Knight-Jadczyk: The Wave, Book 1: Riding The Wave
[4] John Keel: The Complete Guide to Mysterious Beings
[5] Colm A Kelleher & George Knapp: Hunt for the Skinwalker
[6] American Meteor Society:
[7] John Keel: Disneyland of the Gods
[8] Cassiopaean Sessions: July 16, 1994
[9] Cassiopaean Sessions: July 22, 1994