Hypnotherapist and historian Laura Knight-Jadczyk talks about spirit attachments, demonic possessions, alien abductions, channeling and manipulated Matrix reality on NSPN with radio show host Eddie Middleton.

Transcript below.


Eddie: Welcome to Night Search, the voice of the paranormal. I am Eddie Middleton, in Memphis, Tennessee. We are going to be talking with Laura Knight. And I think she has a pretty chilling story to tell about the research she has been doing over the last, I think like ten years, and she has uncovered I think a scenario that should get your full attention. At least it would provide some very serious food for thought. So we are going to be having Laura Knight's search on Night Search, you might say, tonight. Laura, thanks for being on with us.

Laura: Hi Eddie, I am glad to be here. I don't know if it is necessarily chilling...

Eddie: Well it was chilling to me, that's all I can say.

Laura: Well, people who will get at it at first glance, do get that impression, but after they dig deeper into the subject then they discover that it's possibly not so chilling after all.

Eddie: Well, maybe we will have a better conclusion to this thing later when we sign off tonight. I just was finding the whole thing rather ominous, this idea of the manipulated Matrix, like the movie, you know. Why don't we start though, and tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into doing this kind of research that you've been into, like the last 10 years, and then we'll talk about the book that you've written about this.

Laura: Well, actually, it's not really the last 10 years that I've been doing research, it's actually all my life.

Eddie: Oh, okay.

Laura: It is only since 1993 that I have actually been looking at the so called Alien Question. And that was because I was essentially forced to look at it because I had my own experience. But that essentially produced a life changing look at my belief systems.

Because, until that point in time, even though I had been involved in paranormal research, as some people call it - I worked as a hypnotherapist off and on mostly on for, oh, twenty-some years - I had never considered the possibility of the existence of aliens or the possibility of alien abductions being actual. It was kind of at the bottom of my list of possibilities.

But I was forced to look at it, it changed my life, and once I looked at it, I became determined to discover exactly what it was and why it has been so concealed from me for so long, not just me but the world at large. Most human beings, are blissfully unaware.

Eddie: Laura, I was reading on your website about exorcist information, where you performed a number of very very heavy duty exorcisms. Was that your introduction to the aliens?

Laura: Well, yes and no. Through the years as a hypnotherapist, most of my work dealt with standard hypnotherapy. I started out in the earlier years, just doing basic behaviour modification type things, or stress reduction, or teaching people how to reduce their stress by self hypnotic methods. Very basic stuff.

And as the years went by, we progressed into other kinds of therapy. I did some workshops, I did some more training, got into past life therapy, discovered that this was really interesting, it really worked very well...

Eddie: I know you are familiar with Dolores Cannon. (Laura: Mhm.) She got into the alien abduction research through doing regressive hypnosis. And finding that in past lives the people have this alien element showing up.

Laura: Well, up to that point I never came across that because it was really a kind of therapeutic modality that was pretty set. It was like a cut and dried technique: you learn this technique, you apply this technique to the symptoms of the problem, the person gets relief, and that's it. You don't get too experimental. Of course, from my perspective, when you have someone under hypnosis, you are basically like a brain surgeon, you know, you don't wanna cut too much and you don't wanna cut too little, you just are extremely careful and extremely ethical...

Eddie: That's an good analogy, I never heard of that one.

Laura: Yeah, I just never felt inclined to play with things that were untried or untested with people. And as a result, I went gradually, step by step, through these different types of therapeutic modalities, learning them, applying them, and learning them.

I went from the past life therapy to doing what's called Spirit Release Work. But the funny thing was, I actually did my first exorcism before I even knew anything about Spirit Release Work. I went from there to deciding that I have to learn something about this, because once I had come across an individual who was, shall we say, possessed...

Eddie: Were they showing some pretty dramatic manifestations?

Laura: Oh, indeed! [laughs]

Eddie: Will you share a little bit of that with us?

Laura: Well, it was actually a child. And this child had gone from being a normal happy-go-lucky ordinary six year old who plays with cars in the sandbox, or did the normal six year old thing, to being literally adultly demonic at periods. (Eddie: Uh!) His mother was, needless to say, hysterical. And after taking him to a regular medical type person and deciding that she didn't want to drug her child, she eventually came to me, and we did an exorcism and there it was. But the thing was, that I didn't know I was doing an exorcism, I was too stupid. When I asked certain questions under hypnosis, another being answered, identified itself as another being, you know... [laughs]

Eddie: So, the voice changed...

Laura: Oh, the voice changed, yes indeed... It was kind of a mild version of the movie The Exorcist.

Eddie: Was it an adult sounding voice?

Laura: It was an adult sounding voice, it had depth and resonance, it wasn't the squeaky little six year old voice of this kid for sure!

Eddie: Well, that would give anybody the willies, sure enough.

Laura: It did, it did. And that was when a really serious question had to be asked, which was, "How does a child become possessed?" Because this child was not in any way, shape, form or fashion anything like the kid in the movie The Exorcist, like playing with Ouija boards, or dealing around in ways they shouldn't be doing, exposed in any way to any kind of person or activity that was in any way shape or form demonic. He was essentially a child in a very Christian home with a very Christian environment and it just there it was. How does this happen...?

Eddie: Because I've always heard that one has to in some fashion invite them in. (Laura: Nope.) Than apparently there are cases where they simply attacked without any invitation whatsoever?

Laura: Well, it is actually worse than that because as I learned much more about it, I discovered that probably seventy, eighty - and I'm being conservative with this estimation - percent of the population is attached by some sort of entity at any given point in time. In fact, once I had begun applying the technique of spirit release therapeutically I have NEVER had a subject who was not attached.

Eddie: Are you familiar with the work of Edith Fiore? The Unquiet Dead?

Laura: Oh yeah. Edith Fiore was one of the models for the kind of work I was doing. Her work, Bill Baldwin, Carl Wickland. After I got a little more confident with doing it - and I developed some techniques on my own - after so many years doing this kind of work I became more comfortable with my command of my skill and branched out in some ways. But that was a period of time that led up to the introduction to the alien field.

Eddie: You know, Edith Fiore thinks that most people have these spirit attachments some point in their lifetime, and she also got into the alien abduction research through her Regressive Hypnosis work also.

Laura: Right. Let me say right now - because it will drive me crazy if I don't - "Regressive Hypnosis" is a misnomer. I don't know who started the term or who began to use it first, but the proper way to describe it is Hypnotic Regression. Because Regressive Hypnosis would be a backward form of hypnosis and the actual thing being done is that somebody is hypnotically regressed. Somebody started this and I am not sure of who it was. It may even have been Dr John Mack. [laughs] So, people have been following it since then. Somebody can correct me if I am wrong on that one, but they got started somewhere along the way and everybody has been using it and it is technically an incorrect term.

But, yes indeed, once I began examining the alien abduction issue I recognized the signature of the demonic approach, which is not to say that aliens are in any sense demons as some people would like to think. They would like to think that they are ethereal creatures that somehow suck our energy out of us and use it to manifest in some semi-solid physical state, and then when they leave they go back into this ethereal realm and they are no more. Trust me, that's not what is is, they are really physical beings. But they have a "demonic signature", which means that their approach, the line of force, that runs through their operation, their modus operandi, is negative.

Eddie: Are we talking about one specific alien group or just aliens in general?

Laura: We're talking about any alien that abducts anybody ever at any point in time. (Eddie: Okay.) Period.

Eddie: So there is something negative about that anyway, it just strikes me...

Laura: Well, it never ceases to amaze me how many people will justify being abducted, accosted or being worn down over many years of slow and steady approaches, sweet-and-honeyed words or different sorts of persuasive ways and means. And let me tell you, I've seen them all, in people's heads, under hypnosis, and they got a demon in them.

Eddie: It is amazing how people can rationalize being continuously violated by that.

Laura: Well, when a person doesn't have sufficient will to resist, or they don't have sufficient wherewithal to combat a level of force and even shall we say technology, that they cannot comprehend, they have no choice but to rationalize it. I mean, it's Stockholm Syndrome. That's all it is. And the aliens on the planet or around this planet or manifesting in our reality, they're playing good cop/bad cop. There are an awful lot of them that are just the sweetest-pie, they tell all this wonderful things how special and chosen people are and "we chose you to bring a message to mankind", and "you gotta save the planet" and blah blah blah. It's just a good cop/bad cop routine.

Eddie: For the sake of our listening audience who are not familiar with the Stockholm Syndrome, would you briefly explain what that is?

Laura: Well, Stockholm Syndrome is a term that was applied to a situation that occurred in Sweden. There were some people who were abducted by terrorist type individuals, if I remember correctly. And after a period of just a few days they began to identify with their terrorists. Because the terrorists, of course, showed acts of kindness to them. The had been abducted and they were being held in a prison like situation, they were being denied access to things human beings would normally expect under regular living conditions. Yet, these abductors showed some kindness to their captives, care for them, "Are you too hot or too cold? Are you hungry? Would you like this to eat, that to eat?" You know, different little touches. And after just a very few days the abducted people began to identify with their abductors, and then they began to side with them, philosophically, ideologically.

Eddie: Was that what happened to Patty Hearst?

Laura: Patty Hearst was the prime example of the Stockholm Syndrome. She became one of them in a very short period of time. I mean, it can happen in a matter of just a few days, so don't imagine that when you're dealing with time traveling, mind-rotting aliens, that over a period of years you cannot be converted ala Stockholm Syndrome to their way of thinking and to be completely, perfectly and totally convinced that they are here to help you and the things they tell you... And they can tell you the truth! Trust me! Aliens tell the truth! (Eddie: Oh yeah?) They just tell it from their point of view.

So, it's quite a chilling situation we're looking at because, based on statistics, millions of people are being abducted over periods of many years. Most people do not even remember and believe me, if you have a missing time episode and you think you've been abducted, the only thing that makes a missing time episode is that the aliens screwed up with their technology, because most people experience no missing time at all.

Eddie: Oh! Interesting! Well, you think that the great majority of people who have been abducted just have no missing time episode?

Laura: Right. They have no symptoms whatsoever, except they have... Well, they have symptoms, but they don't have symptoms in terms of missing time. Missing time is when there is a glitch in the process and the point of time from which... You see what they do, they have, like, time-locks. They extract you from a point of time and they re-insert you at that precise point where they extracted you so that, if it's done properly, you don't experience anything at all, except perhaps some physical symptoms, or you have nightmares, you have strange dreams or you have post traumatic stress symptoms... Any numbers of physical, mental, emotional things can result from this abduction process.

Eddie: I remember reading Dolores Cannon's book on abductions, her last book I believe. She said these alien beings have the control over time itself!

Laura: Time lords. [laughs]

Eddie: Yeah, this is the first time I heard anybody present that missing time is just an alien glitch.

Laura: Oh, that's true. I can assure you of that. This is not just something that has come out of somebody's head because I have had them under hypnosis. Because, realistically speaking, when something comes out of somebody's head under hypnosis, it's just out of the head, it's subjective, until you can verify it in some other way, at least theoretically. How does it work? It's just a subjective impression, it's somebody's opinion, or their personal experience, or, truth to tell, it can be confabulated, they can be making stuff up, or they can be getting the wrong impressions or misunderstanding things. That's why people have psychological problems to begin with, they misread the experience, their emotions kick in in a certain way because they have misread the experience and then they react to something that isn't at all the way they think it is.

Eddie: What percentage would you guess, or number of people in this country, have been abducted?

Laura: In this country? Oh, that's a tough one because there's a... I'd say two percent.

Eddie: Two percent?

Laura: Two percent of 257 million, how many is that?

Eddie: Hm... Richard are you on the line? You're good with numbers. Why don't you pick that up for us real quick?

Laura: It's a scary number.

Eddie: Yeah, it's quite large he says.

Laura: And I think it is probably pretty accurate because as Jacques Vallée pointed out, just the abduction cases we know about because people have reported them and the sightings that we know about because people have reported them doesn't tell us anything about the many cases that are unreported because of: A) the person doesn't realize something has happened because they don't have missing time, don't have overt alien abduction symptoms, or B) they're afraid of reporting it because they think they've lost their minds!

Eddie: You know, John Mack made a statement that we are all abductees at some level. How would you construe the meaning on that?

Laura: Well, I think that, perhaps, he has a point. Because in terms of the Matrix reality in which we live, we've been abducted from birth. But let me put it into better terms. I don't mean the Matrix reality in the sense that people have been abducted, but I mean we have been abducted by our society, by our reality, by our programming. It's social, cultural. You cover the broad range of experiences that we have as we grow up, that serve to conceal from us the true nature of our reality.

Eddie: I would like to get into that later in our show, this whole concept of the manipulated Matrix. Before we go to a break, which is pretty shortly here, besides that people have been abducted who have no inkling at all, because of no missing time. What about, like someone, like myself, I had no real obvious signs, no weird marks on my body when I wake up in the morning or nose bleeds, or certainly no missing time that I can remember, any episode of that. Would there be some really solid signs that would indicate that you've actually been physically abducted?

Laura: Physical abductions occur rarely, you know.

Eddie: So you think most abductions are like, what they call OBE abductions?

Laura: Right, there are soul extractions. In fact there's a considerable amount of evidence that demonstrates this to be so. There've been people who have been in the midst... Carla Turner wrote about this, an individual who was in the middle of an abduction experience. There were certain effects going on in the building where they were sleeping. They went rushing to the room and they saw this person sitting in the bed, surrounded in a glow of blue light. And that this individual was frozen and there was kind of a force field and the two individuals who were observing this were unable to go to her aid. They themselves became almost paralyzed by the effects of this blue light that surrounded the person. After it was all over with and the blue light faded and the person dropped back down on the bed - she was like partially sitting up - an entire abduction experience was described that was so completely bizarre and clearly something had happened.

Then I later had a case myself where the blue bubble of light was involved, so we came to some idea after researching a little bit further, that this blue bubble of light indicates that a realm or dimensional curtain is being breached. And when that happens, these soul extractions can occur.

And then what happens is, that after the soul is extracted, or the frequency body, in this alien reality - which I remind you is a physical reality in a very real sense - a new body is molecularized around this pattern and all the operations of the abduction scenario then take place on the molecularized body which is then demolecularized, technologically, and the soul is sent back. The frequency of the soul has been changed and the frequency of the changed soul then changes the frequency of the physical body, it's home, and therefore the things that were done to the remolecularized body in the other realm manifests in the physical body.

Eddie: I never heard that before, either the theory that abduction can be described as soul extraction or an astral abduction, that they create a physical body for you in this other realm and work on you through that and then they demolecularize and send you back to your home body.

Laura: This is something that I have gotten from people under hypnosis by asking right questions under the right circumstances. One of the difficulties is though that when they are in this demolecularized state or when they are in this point of transition between being molecularized and demolecularized, usually there is some kind of a memory block. Some of them perceive it as a wall of fire.

Eddie: Interesting. Well Laura, at this point we're near to our break here so just let hold that thought with the wall of fire and we'll back here shortly to continue our interview with Laura Knight on Night Search. Stay tuned!


Eddie: Welcome back to Night Search, I'm Eddie Middeleton in Memphis, Tennessee and my guest tonight is Laura Night. And we have been discussing her research on Hypnotic Regression and how she discovered the alien reality, the abduction phenomenon.

Laura, we are talking about the exorcism you performed on the young boy because he had an adult possessing him. Was this an adult alien? You said "a demonic signature", that is I want to explore. "The aliens having a demonic signature", what really does that mean?

Laura: Well, first of all, let me really make it clear that there is a big difference between attached entities or "dead dudes", as we like to call them. (Eddie: Like what Edith Fiore dealt with in her book The Unquiet Dead?) Right, and demonic entities. The demonic possession is really quite rare. But attached dead dudes usually they are family members or people you love or care about or people who are very psychically similar to you in some way.

So, thinking about having an attached entity should not make anybody go crazy. But having a demonic possession is something altogether different, and it is quite rare.

There is a big error among people who call themselves exorcists - I was not an exorcist for a long time until I did an actual exorcism. I was somebody who did Spirit Release Therapy, which is quite different, it is almost like having an additional soul to counsel because usually you counsel the attached entity, discover what its problem is and therapeutically get it to release and do what it is supposed to to, "going into the light". A demonic type entity has to be evicted and that is not that easy.

So, having said that, when I say "the demonic signature", the demonic signature is something that expresses a certain, shall we say, using the the terms of RA, a certain Self Service mentality. They may be even beneficial in some perspective, but the beneficence is always directed toward themselves. They have a certain attitude that their rights are the only rights that count and their wishes are the only wishes that count and they are energy suckers from the word go. This is just basically the violation of the rights of other beings.

But as we understand, sometimes the violation of the rights of other beings can take a very benevolent aspect. For example, something I wrote recently, we always are thought to look at the image of the shepherd, the good shepherd that takes care of his flock, and how tenderly he cares for them and how he searches out the lost lamb in the storm and the darkness and goes through all of these ordeals to protect his flock. Well, think about it, why is he taking care of his flock?

Eddie: Because he is going to be ultimately exploiting them.

Laura: Exactly. He is going to sheer them and most often they end up in the pot. So, don't for a minute think that there can't be benevolent behaviours on the parts of some of these beings, entities, individuals, however you wanna call them...

Eddie: You could say seemingly benevolent behaviours.

Laura: Right. But always, when you begin to track the activity, there is a motive, and that motive is self serving in the end. And that is in the end what we see in the alien abduction phenomenon and most so called "alien interactions".

Eddie: Now, do you make a distinction between demonic beings and aliens beings?

Laura: Oh, absolutely, absolutely! A demonic being, by technical definition, is what we call a fifth density being. Just imagine, if you will, an etheric slug. And a characteristic of the demonic being is that is so contractile that it has passed the point where it is capable of giving anything.

Aliens are still on a lower level of experience, what we call fourth density beings. They still can interact, because they need to interact, they have to take care of their flock, so they can have their lamb stew and their warm, cosy clothes made of lamb skin. So, they are still capable of interacting in even a seemingly benevolent way.

But a truly demonic being is totally etheric, has no physical manifestation, it inserts itself into the interstitial spaces of your soul frequency and lives there like a sucking slug. So just picture it that way and you'll have an idea.

Eddie: You say they have no physical manifestation?

Laura: No.

Eddie: But they can cause physical effects, can they not?

Laura: Well, the physical effects are caused by the interaction, the battle between the soul of the host and the possessing entity itself, even higher astral beings. Any kind of being that produces what you would call poltergeistal type effect is a lower level being, usually earth bound.

Eddie: Not demonic?

Laura: No, no. They're most definitely not demonic.

Eddie: What about the patients, like I heard about exorcism where a person is lying in the bed and the bed levitates off the floor?

Laura: That is produced by the interaction, the battling at a certain level between the soul and the possessing entity. The physical effect is the effect of the short circuiting of the electromagnetic, or whatever, energy from the brain of the body of the host and the environment.

There actually have been some studies done on this. William Roll at North Carolina actually did some tests on this kind of what you would call PK. And he discovered that PK is a short circuiting between the brain of the individual and the environment, because apparently we do interact very intimately with our environment. And sometimes there is the short circuit, and messages from the brain do not reach the body. They exit the body right around the area of the brain stem and interact directly with the environment.

Eddie: That's interesting. I teach philosophy classes and every semester I teach an introduction course where we get into Descartes towards the end of the semester. And he is talking about mind-body interaction. And the question about mind over matter, just wave your arms around, that's the example of mind over matter.

Laura: Absolutely.

Eddie: And you are saying that this could go outside of the body in the same fashion.

Laura: Exactly. It is exactly the right analogy to draw. Because what happens is, there is a short circuit, and instead of reaching the body in some way, it exits at that point. I think they even did some EEG work, they put electrodes on some of these people who were able to do PK. And that is how they came to this realization, that the energy, that was being generated in the brain, went only as far as the brain stem, and that was where it exited the body. In Chinese philosophy this area in the back of the head, just below the occipital ridge is called the jade gate. So, it is the point of which we connect with our environment.

Eddie: And the other portal would be the pineal door, that is referred to?

Laura: Well, yes and no. I think they would probably work interactively. But for the energy to go directly into the environment it probably would have to run down... You know, it's electromagnetic energy, so...

Eddie: So you're saying that, say the phenomena of the bed levitating with the possessed person, it's the possessed person himself of herself that it is causing it, and not the possessing entity. (Laura: Sure.) It is the soul that is struggling against this invading entity.

Laura: Yeah! Well, another thing, it can be the invading entity directing this activity through the sensorium of the victim. (Eddie: Oh, I got ya.) They use their energy, because remember, a demon does not give anything. And making a bed move is giving, it is putting energy into the environment. They never give, trust me. (laughs)

Eddie: So, I always thought, those kinds of manifestations that occur during the exorcisms is just like a demon showing off his power.

Laura: Well, in essence he is. I mean, he is using his victim. But look at the effect it has on the victim. Every time this is ever been demonstrated, it is the victim who has suffered. They have been drained of their energy. I have read cases where this kind of energy and activity was produced and the victim aged like twenty years in a day or two. It drains them, it deprives them of their vital force, it takes something out of them. Because, it's their energy that is being used.

Eddie: You say, they aged twenty years in a day or two, that would be like an irreversible thing? They would remain at this advanced age as a result?

Laura: You heard of people whose hair turned white over a night... (Eddie: Yes, I am!) We always think it is a joke but I actually read some cases where it really happened! It's vital force. It's been taken from the individual and used to manipulate the environment by the possessing demon. As you say, maybe they are showing off, maybe showing what kind of power they have, they are trying to terrorize.

Eddie: In the case you have mentioned, where they might have 20 years drained out of life, I mean, literally they have 20 years cut out of their life as a result of that or...

Laura: Well, that we can't know, because if a person dies at a certain point in time, how do we know that they would have had 20 more? What we were saying is, that it is a subjective impression when somebody looks at them and says, "god they look 20 years older" and "yes, their hair may have turned white" and "yes, they may have suddenly acquired wrinkles" or "yes, they may have shrunk or shriveled". There are even cases where somebody looses 15-20 pounds in a very short period of time because of these kinds of interactions. And it's clear that their energy is being utilized. That their very life force, that is locked up in the cells of the body is being drained and used to produce these kinds of phenomena.

Eddie: So, being demonically possessed is no prescription for longevity? (laughs)

Laura: Well. (laughs) Oh. (laughs) Yeah.

Eddie: The case of this young boy that you performed this exorcism on, even though you really weren't aware you are doing an exorcism at that time, you thought you are doing a spirit release...

Laura: Well, actually I knew it was an exorcism after I got into it. But at that time I didn't even know about spirit release!

Eddie: Was it in this case a demonic being?

Laura: I'd say that this was more like a really nasty dead dude. I wouldn't even say that it was a demonic, it was too easy. (laughs)

Eddie: Did you have some cases after that exorcism that were even more challenging?

Laura: Yeah. I had some that... Well, put it this way: We started making jokes about it in my little group of helpers, that were helping me with this sort of thing. And we joked, that when we came across some of these really, really strange cases, that it made your hair stand up. So we started joking about the part of our normal exorcism equipment ought to be hairspray. Actually, there were a couple of them that we called two-can cases. (laughs) Two can of hairspray to keep your hair down. (laughs) (Eddie: Right.) I know it sounds terrible to joke about that, but if you don't joke about it you are running screaming down the street, because quite frankly, the last one that I did took me six months to get over it.

Eddie: Oh, it took a lot out of you.

Laura: Oh, it took... It nearly killed me, it nearly killed me. And I don't do them any more because of that. It was really an unusual case too because let me tell you, you can't always tell that a person has a demonic attachment. This particular individual came to me for what would be called ordinary self-esteem problems. He had problems with asserting himself, he had problems speaking up for himself. He knew he had some problems, so he came to me with a referral and I spent several hours talking with him, interviewing, finding out his background before we did a session.

Essentially, I thought, this is a pretty standard case, we'll just go back in, we'll go into his childhood, we'll find that point in time when he made the decision about himself, that his person or his opinion or his ideas had no value and he decided to stop speaking. And we'll find out what that event was, what happened, we'll reframe it for him under hypnosis, we'll help him to go through it again, and to make a new decision. It's kinda like mental time traveling, you go back and you change the past.

So you get in there, and it's a technique. Part of the technique is to use several kinds of visualization to help the person to deal with what's going on in their subconscious. And one of these is, is to create a sanctuary to work from. And usually I have them to describe it in great detail. One of the important things about the sanctuary is the door. "Here you describe this place, your special place. Now, what kind of door..." This tells you a lot of the subconscious mind of the person. Because the door to their subconscious is what this door represents.

Eddie: Right.

Laura: So, I asked him. I said, "Okay, now describe the door for me." He said, "I can't. It's covered with a two foot thick sheet of ice." (laughs)

Eddie: Oh!

Laura: (sighs) I should have had a clue! (laughs)

Eddie: Oh!

Laura: But instead, I boldly went forward, "Okay we'll melt the ice!" (laughs) We melt the ice, we go inside and go through several other little operations. And then, at a certain point I asked him, "Well okay, everything looks pretty good, do you see any cords or things attached to the body you're describing?" Because you have them describe their spirit body. He said, "Yes, there is this rope tied around my ankle and it extends off into space." So I said, "Okay, why don't you just pick up that rope and start reeling it in?" He said, "I don't think we wanna do that!" And I said, you know me, "Hah! What you mean, we don't wanna do that? I've never felt anything we didn't wanna reel in!" (Eddie: That's one rope you don't want to get to the end, maybe.) Well, it was! So, as soon as I told him to start pulling it in, all of the sudden... I mean, this is when it really started getting weird. Because, this was the point at which it became like the movie The Exorcist. (laughs) I have it on tape, I've let a couple of people listen to it and then they just get completely freaked out when they hear the change in this poor guys voice. Because all of the sudden this horrible, hissing voice came out of his mouth and said, "You picked the wrong one to mess with this time, counselor." (laughs)

Eddie: You were beginning to think so too by that time. (laughs)

Laura: I was there with my hairspray. (laughs) And I thought to myself, "I have to get another hobby, I could be selling Tupperware." (laughs) (Eddie: Oh!) And it really got hairy because this guy was flinging furniture around and things were a little bit wild. This was the one where I learned that demons don't really care if you believe in Jesus or not.

Eddie: Yeah, yeah. That's interesting, because I heard different opinions on that. I think it was David Jacobs, in one of his books said that calling on Jesus didn't seem to help in some of the cases he knew, where they did that to try to abort the abduction.

Laura: Yup, it doesn't work. I tell you the times it does work. It works when the entity you're dealing with believes in Jesus. (laughs)

Eddie: Oh! Some of the alien you mean?

Laura: Well, I am not saying alien entities do, but I am saying that the dead dude attachment types, if they believe in Jesus... But then, of course, when you're dealing with the dead dude type, then there is no point in invoking Jesus because you are just counseling somebody who's got a problem, and getting them to resolve their problem!

Eddie: Right. But now, is there such a thing as spiritual law, that these demons have to back off in the name of Jesus?

Laura: No. There's not.

Eddie: That is just something that Christian exorcists use. And of course they get good results...

Laura: Well, they think they do. I mean, I watched some Christians performing an exorcism one time and when they were done, and the individual and the whole thing was over and done with, I can guarantee you that they didn't get rid of it - they just made it mad.

Eddie: Hm, hm. Well I know that there are some very re-consequent cases, where they have to keep working on them and maybe the demon leaves for a while but then it comes back, yes?

Laura: Yeah. And if it doesn't work, once again: the characteristic of a truly demonic type entity is to not give. I mean, they don't even want to talk to you. And at a certain point, they will stop talking, they will recede into these interstitial spaces and they will go quiescent because they just don't wanna be bothered!

I mean, just totally non-giving to such an extent that the only way that you can ever really grasp it, is to be in the presence of it because you can feel it. (Eddie: That's interesting.) It's like a black hole, it sucks at you. (Eddie: Gosh!) And that's why it took me six month to get over it because it sucks the life force out of you just by being in its presence.

Eddie: Tell me a little bit about the techniques you used to rip someone of demonic possessing entity there.

Laura: Techniques?

Eddie: Like, how do you talk to them and how do you proceed with the exorcism, what are some of the things you actually do?

Laura: Well, one of the things that I do is that I - and I kinda came by this almost by accident, it just felt the right thing to do - is that I decided to engage them in a little dialogue, because like I said, they don't like to give, they don't like to talk. However...

Eddie: Is that because they are lazy?

Laura: No, it's because they refuse to give. However, you can challenge them by challenging their ego. And if you challenge their ego and you continue to challenge their ego, they keep responding to you because they have this incredible ego. What happens is, is that after a period of time of engaging in this - and it is very tricky to describe it third hand or out of the situation because you have to be there to be observing and interacting with it dynamically - but after a certain period of time of this engagement, they begin to loose force. You are effectively trying to turn the tables on them by forcing them - you are tricking them. You see, you are tricking them into giving their force by challenging their ego, because their ego is their Achilles heel. And once at a certain point you've weakened them - and it's usually by engaging them in Jesuitic reasoning (laughs).

Eddie: Interesting. And they have such pride of intellect?

Laura: Oh yes, the pride in the intellect, and if you challenge that, they will respond and they will weaken and then at a certain point - and you can tell when they begin to weaken - that is when you pick your own will literally against them and you demand that they leave. Because you tell them that you are not going to stop until they do. I even told this to this one, "We can sit here all night, all day tomorrow, I am not quitting. You've got two choices."

Eddie: At that point they are not, like, undeceived, they are still falling to that little trick and they can't resist responding to the challenge to their ego.

Laura: Yeah! Right! So, at that point I basically jumped in it's face and said, "Alright, I won, you leave!" I mean, it was kind of like when the devil came to George and got into this fiddle contest? That's kind of what we were doing. We were having this little fiddle contest and I won. And at that point in time, the poor guy swelled up, like, doubled his size. All of the sudden, let loose with the most god-awful expulsion of gas. Screamed the most awful scream, it was like something was tearing him in half. And then you could hear this ululating scream traveling across the room to the door and out, and it was gone. And then the guy just collapsed. A few minutes later I bring him out and he doesn't remember a thing!

And how do you tell some guy, "Guess what? You had a demon." (laughs)

Eddie: Yeah. But how did his self esteem do after that?

Laura: Oh, he was doing really fine for a period of time. And then what happened was... And this was the funny thing because I warned him about it, because one of the things I had extracted from this demon in the course of the conversation was the way and means that he had access to this guy was doing sexual intercourse with this girl.

Eddie: Really? (Laura: Yeah.) We're so close to the break, but I am sure we want to get into that a little bit, how that works, you know.

Laura: Right, so I warned him about interacting with her and she came on all sweetness and light and so on and so forth and he was deceived. It was six month by and he was in the same boat again. I don't know if he had the same demon or the same situation.

Eddie: Because he was still with the same woman?

Laura: Yeah. Well, he was deceived by her sweetness and her... And this is in some cases how these things get to us. They get to us through other people.

Eddie: Now that woman that was his contact that opened him up for this possession, was she like self consciously aware that she was having traffic with this evil beings?

Laura: In a certain sense it was a really unusual situation. She got possessed actually in a Pentecostal church. (Eddie: Oh, god!) Yeah. And it was during this laying on of hands that this demon entered her, which kind of blows the heck out of some theories that some people have.

And she doesn't remember exactly what happened, because she remembered she was up at the altar and they all had their hands raised up in the air and they were praying on each other and laying on hands and so on and so forth. And the next thing she knew, she found herself lying on the floor with all those people holding her down and then she was locked up in a mental hospital and put on Prozac!

What she had done was, she had pulled a pen out of a pocket of one of the men that was at the altar and had tried to stab somebody! She had just gone into this demonic frenzy and had started trying to stab with this pen and was foaming at the mouth, and they all wrestled her to the floor and then they just decided she was mentally ill and her family put her in a hospital, put her on Prozac.

From that point on she just deteriorated rapidly. She was going out - again from being a nice Christian girl - to bars and actually inviting four, five men behind the bar to have intercourse, one after the other.

Eddie: And that all started attending a Pentecostal laying on of hands ceremony there?

Laura: Yeah, sad to say, but that is what happened. That is not to say anything about Pentecostal churches. What I am saying here is that it depends on the person and their internal orientation I suppose, and why they are going to a Pentecostal church. I have encountered people that had gone to Pentecostal churches because that is how they get their cookies.

Eddie: Aha. We are here at our break time. Let's just hold it there and when we come back we will pick up where we are leaving. I'm enjoying this interview immensely. And I am very intrigued with some of these ideas you put out I never heard before, but they have a real plausibility to them, I think. We are interviewing Laura Knight here and we'll back shortly here on Night Search, so stay tuned.


Eddie: Welcome back to Night Search. I am Eddie Middleton in Memphis and I am talking with Laura Knight tonight. We were talking about her work in exorcism and we are leading up to a discussion of her work on the Matrix.

There are a few more things I want to ask you about the exorcism thing. You were telling about the woman that this man got the possession from, because he was having sex with her. Exactly how does that work? Is the soul like more open more during that time, I've heard? Al Bielek was on the show last weekend, he said that at the point of sexual orgasm the conscious and subconscious unite and that would be a time when programmed people, like with the Montauk thing, where they have the Montauk boys, those kinda things, would that be a time where one would be more open to be possessed?

Laura: Well, that is certainly a good comparison because it does seem to be so. The problem goes back again to this Self Serving agenda. Whenever two people interact with one another, the chief problem seems to be that they are interacting with an individual who has a certain, say, physical appearance. They then project onto this person with the certain physical appearance qualities that they may not possess. We all are probably pretty familiar with this in our relationships with other people, that very often we think somebody is something and then after a period of time we discover that who we thought they were is not who they are. Sometimes it is very very heartbreaking to come to this realization.

Eddie: I've been through a few of those scenarios.

Laura: Yes. Especially if you are married to this person and you have children with them and then you finally have to realize, accept, face the fact that this person is not at all who you thought it was and then either you decide you gonna like them as they are or that you can't live with them as they are.

Eddie: I was thinking of Shakespeare and one of his sonnets. He was talking about his mistress, he said, "For I have sworn thee fair and thought thee bright, who art as black as hell, as dark as night."

Laura: (laughs) Well, there you have it!

So what happens is, is that when two people interact and if they have, each of them, a false image of the other, they are each interacting in a Self Serving way. I am trying to convey a kind of a very subtle concept here. So, when at the point of orgasm, they are each believing deep in their heart something about the experience in the other person, that is essentially a lie, because it has no basis in objective reality...

Eddie: Mike commented that the moment of sexual orgasm one is in one most vulnerable, in a state of maximum deception, to say it.

Laura: Right, and if you are in this deep belief in a lie, even if you're believing this lie very innocently, then you attract into you lying forces. And depending upon the depth of the lie and the strength of the lie and the power of the individual soul believing the lie, probably resonates into the universe and attracts into that void a matching frequency.

Eddie: That gives a whole different twist and meaning to the thing, lying with somebody. (Laura: Yeah. (laughs)) It's an euphemistic way of talking about sexual intercourse. (laughs)

Laura: Yeah. I hope that explains how it works, because once again, we are talking about frequencies, we're talking about energies, we're talking about the universe as waveforms of frequency and energy, and when you produce frequencies and energies inside yourself, and those frequencies and energies intensify through the electromagnetic activities that go on during sexual intercourse, and at the point of orgasm, you are indeed very vulnerable to that which you believe. If you believe a lie, you are vulnerable to a lie.

Eddie: Being possessed by lying forces? (Laura: Right.) And that's how he came to be possessed? (Laura: Right.) What was the final outcome with his story and the woman he was associated with, how did that finally play out?

Laura: Well, after I nearly killed myself taking care of his situation, I spent, oh probably, four, five hours a day for about 10 days afterwards, counseling with him. It took me several days before I was even able to play the tape to him to explain to him what had happened to him. Because like I said, what do you do when somebody thinks they have just a self esteem problem? You break to them gently as you can that, you know, "Hey you had a demon, this was serious."

He was feeling really good and we got him to the point where he was in really good shape. And then I played the tape for him, he understood what had happened, what had gone on, I explained to him, "Listen, you have just had major surgery here. We've got you all cleaned up, the cancer is gone, we've got you bandaged up, do not play in the dirt."

He was good for a few weeks, and than he began to have contact with her again, which he really couldn't avoid because they had a child together. The contact with her led to, of course, ultimately, being reinfested and he called me in a panic. At that point I did not see any reason... If a person cannot take their medicine, if they can't stay out of the dirt... And I knew at this point in time, to put it bluntly, that those sons of bitches are up to get me. And the next time I worked with this guy, they were gonna come back with the reinforcements, they were gonna be lying in weight for me.

Eddie: Yeah, I hear that they do bring heavy reinforcements during some of these exorcisms.

Laura: Oh, yeah. So, at that point I told him that I was not going to do another exorcism, that there were other ways and means, that he would have to work on himself, that he would have to do certain work in order to prepare himself to eject this thing, more or less, by the strength of his own will. Which, in the ultimate sense, that's where it has to end. It has to end with the person doing the work on themselves to be able to take care of this sort of thing themselves.

I gave him a whole series of tapes, I gave him books, I gave him a lot of programs and things to do and it was too much like work. It was easier to go play in the dirt and then go back and have somebody clean them up.

Eddie: Now what about the woman, was she seeking help for her possession, or she not even really aware of being possessed herself?

Laura: Well, he brought her to me at one point during the course of this whole interaction for an interview. I talked to her... actually... in order to even schedule an interview with her I said I want you to write an essay for me. And I want you to write into this essay something about your background, something about your thoughts, your feelings about things. And she wrote about 20 pages. I still have those 20 pages and you have never read 20 pages of more revolting, disgusting rambling in your entire life. This girl was in a really really bad way and yet she was sitting in front of me and using the foulest language you could possibly imagine. Talking about, "I went out to the bar and I went outside and we, you know, blankedy blanked and blankedy blanked, with five guys and oh I loved it", and so on and so forth. And then, when I mentioned the idea of spirit attachment or possession, well, "If have any problems like that I'll just go down to the church and they'll take care of it for me."

Eddie: Yeah. They did it already. (laughs)

Laura: Well, there was no point in telling her that, because when I pointed this out to her, she actually got very angry! Once again, you just come face to face to the fact that people suffer what they suffer, until they learn how not to.

Eddie: You might say they made their bed and they had just decided to go ahead and keep on lying in it.

Laura: Right, until it got miserable enough for them to do something about it. I mean, it was too easy for them to just come and say, "Mama pick me up and carry me." Well, guess what, you gotta learn to walk! People don't like to be told that they've got to learn to walk.

Eddie: Yeah. Well, let me ask you now about the demons, where they reside? You said they're in the fifth density?

Laura: This is what we call it. It's a completely ethereal state of existence, has no physical manifestation.

Eddie: Are they eternal beings, have they always existed and always will exist, or...

Laura: Pretty much, yeah. I mean, they cycle around, I'm sure. I think that's when some of these demonic type beings... Of course, their objective is to become One with God in the same sense as those who serve others, seek to become One. But they seek to become One with God by stuffing all of existence inside themselves by absorbing all other beings to self, because they perceive God as the center of their being. And what happens is, is they gain so much weight, so to speak, that at a certain point they implode on themselves and they become primal matter.

Eddie: Geeze! In a sense, isn't that the ultimate goal of left hand path?.

Laura: That's the way it is. But once again, they don't realize or understand that the end is as primal matter. They just want to go back to sleep in eternal Oneness.

Eddie: They don't recognize God as a being above them that has the higher authority?

Laura: Right. THEY are god. They are god in a sense that... It's one thing to say that God manifests in all of us, we are all God, and that we honor all other selves as God. They do not do that. They say, God is within me and the best way to get back to God is to serve their God that is in me, specific individually, to whatever point it needs to be served so that it can grow and get stronger and bigger and deeper and heavier and more slug-like. Of course, they don't say that part of it. (laughs)

Eddie: Yeah. I'm reminded of Aleister Crowley, "Do what thou wilt..."

Laura: There you go, that's it, that's their whole perspective. And that is ultimately the alien perspective as well.

Eddie: Well, let's talk about aliens now, and how they are relating to this demonic beings.

Laura: Remember now, we are talking about a completely different manifestation here, because we're talking about layers of reality. And this is something that is described in some of the most ancient literature, what they call the seven layers of reality, or the seven steps of Brahma. The seven stages, the seven rishis, the seven days of creation.

Eddie: We're talking about the seven heavens too, don't we?

Laura: Well, the seven heavens may be something altogether different, but then maybe it's the same thing. But essentially we're talking about the seven layers of reality. We are at the third layer. There is a fourth layer that is above us and there is an intermediate layer. Say, if you take your number 7, the highest level is 7th density, which basically is EVERYTHING. And then you have the reverse of the coin of 7th density, which is primal matter. In between this mirror of primal matter and all potential of 7th density, you have these five other densities. Two of which are completely ethereal, two of which are matter, that is, not conscious, and then you have this intermediate layer of fourth density, which is paraphysical. It is a physical density, a physical level. This is the alien reality.

Eddie: I've heard David Icke talk about that this is where the reptilians reside, in the fourth density.

Laura: Right. Unfortunately I think that he has gone a little overboard in trying to understand it in terms of demonic existences. Because demonic beings are truly quite different. Like I said, they don't communicate, interact, it's very difficult to get anything from them at all. And in terms of this alien reality we still have quite an interaction, quite a hierarchy going on. But for the most part, it serves Self, it acts like the shepherd on many occasions, taking good care of the sheep so it can have dinner and warm clothing.

Eddie: We are talking primary now about the reptilian beings?

Laura: Well, reptilians, greys, praying mantis beings, the Nordics, so on and so forth...

Eddie: They are all in the fourth density?

Laura: Right, there is a whole range of... When you go through the literature you just realize that there is just a whole range of them... And if you think about the Hermetic maxim, "As above, so below", and if we look at our reality and we think about it in terms of different functions of society, different types of people. We have all kinds of different intellectual levels, emotional expressions, we have people who are bankers, ruling elite, we have doctors, lawyers, ordinary workers, we have people who are perfectly happy to dig ditches all their lives, because for them it's satisfying.

The same thing holds true with these higher levels of reality, the fourth density level of reality. If we look at the density below us, lower level second density - the plant life, and then the intermediate levels, more basic forms of animal life and then the higher animals, companions of man, the apes, chimpanzees; you see all different kinds of levels of being. "Level" does not necessarily constitute a judgement in terms of greater or lesser, it just constitutes a different type or expression.

The same thing holds true with the fourth density level of reality. For example, the Grays, what we call the Zetas, they are bio-bots. They are not quite plant life, (laughs) but they are what you would call bio-engineered beings of the reptoids. (Eddie: I've heard that.) And there are several varieties.

I've got an interesting document that was passed to me a few years ago that actually supposedly was smuggled out of some kind of military study, it has pictures - and I've got them on my website, I scanned them - of different kinds of alien beings that have been encountered by some of these people working in these underground facilities.

But interestingly quite a number of them seem to be bio-engineered beings with specific functions. And the interesting thing about the Greys is - from what I understand, and this is not just from our own material, but this is by doing research in material from other people, things that they've discovered or ferreted out - it seems that some of these Grays, they've actually taken some of them and crossed them with human type genetics and created a little bit higher level being that comes across as having some intellectual capacity.

Eddie: Some capacity for emotions?

Laura: I wouldn't even call it emotional capacity, although they can mimic that. I am sure you are familiar with human beings who can mimic emotions. So just consider, if you will, the ability of human beings to do things that they do and then jack that up about a hundred times, an order of magnitude, to this higher level of reality and you come to a realization that these beings, even these low level Zeta types can mimic certain things about human beings in such a robotoid way that we can't tell the difference.

Eddie: I've heard that some of these Grey hybrids work in theses underground bases. That possibly, Delta Forces have some of them on their team.

Laura: I wouldn't say that it is impossible because whatever has been going on on this planet has been going on for many thousands of years, because we certainly have found tracks of it in very ancient literature. The most ancient shamanic customs of the Altai shamans of Siberia described their function as being that of ascending to - climbing the tree of life so to speak - ascending to another level of reality, either above, as in the heavens, or below in the hells, to bargain with the beings, the spirits they call them, to release their hold upon the shaman's patient. And also to remove objects that are implanted in their bodies by these beings. And this is a tradition THOUSANDS of years old.

Eddie: We're here on a break time again. It will be the last break here before we wind up the show tonight. I want to definitely get into some other areas here before we let you go tonight because I am totally intrigued with everything you've had to say so forth. But I definitely want to talk about this manipulated Matrix thing more. (Laura: Okay.) You're listening to Night Search and we got Laura Knight and we will be back shortly.


Eddie: Welcome back to Night Search! I'm Eddie Middleton, I'm talking with Laura Knight and folks she has a website that has some really profound food for thought. Laura, let's get out you website address again if you don't mind.

Laura: Yes, www.cassiopaea.org.

Eddie: And how did you arrive at the name for your website?

Laura: Well...

Eddie: That's a long story in itself. We only got thirty minutes but I think that will start to lead us into the discussion about the Matrix.

Laura: Well, as I said I had been doing all of these strange researches through all of these years. And among the many things I researched was the channeling phenomenon.

Eddie: That's a very controversial subject, I know.

Laura: It's extremely controversial because of the fact that because of my experience with spirit release and my experience with exorcism, I recognized that most channeling, I'm not gonna say if not all, but I'm just gonna say most. Most channeling is an interaction with an entity that probably is very much like the shepherd, who takes care of the sheep.

Eddie: Ah, yeah, and the sheep is many people.

Laura: Right.

Eddie: They are thinking they got one of the super inteligeous, benevolous space brothers who are communicating through them because they are such a special chosen person.

Laura: Exactly, and you can always tell, because they usually change their name or they are in touch with some galactic hierarchy or guardians or...

Eddie: Have you ever heard of the Ashtar Command?

Laura: Yeah, the whole nine yards. And the thing was that in the course of my researches - I did the research channeling in the last 20 years, which is quite a lot of material itself - that I researched it back into the previous centuries and even further back because I wanted every detail - people who know me know that I am like a bulldog this way.

Eddie: Yeah, you got interested in channeling because you saw this deception going on.

Laura: Right, so...

Eddie: That's so interesting, that you don't just start right out thinking channeling is a good thing, you're highly suspicious, you wanna check it out.

Laura: I was suspicious of everything and I always ask, "sez who?" So I decided to see If I couldn't think about this in a logical, theoretical way. And devise some way or means or theory by which channeling could possibly really take place. Because the first thing I understood was, most channeling comes from dead dudes. Dead dudes, they have certain advantages because they are not constrained by time. But they also don't know a whole hell of lot more than we do. You know, Edgar Cayce always said, "A dead Presbyterian is just that: a dead Presbyterian."

So, anyway, to make a long story short, it's really pretty much laid out on the website. I devised way and means and persisted at it, because I knew that if you start to interact with the first entities that come along you gonna be deceived, because you have to refine and build and you have to test and try these spirits. And I don't mean by challenging them in the name of Jesus, I mean by understanding the line of force that runs through what they are saying and doing. That's the important thing, what is the line of force?

So, over a period of several years with other people, we engaged in this channeling experiment using multiple receivers, because another thing I figured out about the whole thing was that a single human being in an ordinary state of existence simply could not receive the energies of a truly higher being.

Eddie: In other words, you didn't feel like you were in any danger with this experiment of being possessed by some demonic entity?

Laura: I know about the danger but I also have a lot of experience with spirit release and exorcism and I have techniques to make sure that spiritual hygiene was maintained at a level that most people don't even comprehend.

Eddie: Now, I heard of the RA transmission. Isn't that considered like from a high source?

Laura: It has some real good bleed-throughs of real good high level information, I really respect that source. I do point out however that it had some problems, and obviously there was some bias on the part of the receivers and you can always detect bias in the language. When there is a lot of words spoken with very little meaning, what we call word density, value density of the words, do they use a lot of words and say nothing or very little?

Eddie: Yeah, I've sat at on a few channeling sessions, it was all just a bunch of words and didn't really say anything.

Laura: It's psycho babble.

Eddie: Yeah.

Laura: So, word density is one clue. Archaic language is another. They all think they have to talk in a language of the Bible or they have to use convoluted, twisted...

Eddie: Yeah, right.

Laura: And part of my theory was that a higher being has already done these things. Saying, "Well, they can't say anything or know anything that is not in the mind of the channel", or this or that, all of these excuses that are given as to why these channeled entities are such ignoramuses just don't cut the mustard with me.

I just decided, if it's a truly higher being, it's like somebody who already knows the ABC's, and they already know to read Shakespeare, so it's easy for them to go back and say the ABC's. I mean, they didn't stop knowing how to say the ABC's just because they know Shakespeare.

So, all of these excuses were not a consideration in my mind. They had to have high word density and they had to have a certain value, a certain line of force and that was objective truth. Are they telling the truth? And that was actually where I got into a little bit of a quandary, because when our channeling experiment finally on the night of the first comet impacts of Shoemaker-Levy on Jupiter, it's actually when it happened. This particular source that called itself transmitting from Cassiopaea. They're not aliens, they're not any kind of physical beings. They call themselves, kind of a cosmic intelligence, ourselves in the future, like many many many thousands of years in the future so to speak.

What they told us was truth. But it upset me so much when they were telling us this truth that the project almost ended right there and then. I had to sit down and have a long talk with myself. I said to myself, "Well, you wanted the truth, they're telling the truth, you know it's the truth, because you've read it at other places. Why would you think that a higher being would not tell you the truth?"

Eddie: Now, how were you able to judge that it was the truth?

Laura: Well, if there is a lot of similar information coming out of people's heads under hypnosis, and other information that is coming from other researches about certain matters that they were telling us about, you began to get the idea that it is probably the truth. It's like sitting at the side of the road. If you're sitting at the side of the road and there is a bend in the road up ahead and a hundred people walk past you and everyone of them says that just around the bend there is a river with a bridge over, you come to the idea that there is probably really a river with a bridge over it.

Eddie: Okay.

Laura: So, when people start telling you that there are aliens who are performing experiments on human beings, that are pretty horrifying, and then you have a channeled source that says, "Yeah, that's happening, and here are some of the details." Instead of saying, "Oh, no! We're all here to help you! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain, I'm the great and powerful Oz, I'm going to help you!"

Eddie: Yeah.

Laura: But no, they were not doing that, they did not want to lie to me. I asked a question, they answered. What they answered was something truly horrifying - but it was the truth.

Eddie: Would you share that with us?

Laura: They told us about experiments being performed (Eddie: Okay, right.) on human beings in underground bases, some of them included stress testing of the bodies of young children. This is like you put a car on the rack and stress tested to see if the joints and ligaments will hold. You can use your imagination on how that's done.

Eddie: Oh, yeah. They were sharing some really hardcore frightening kind of information about an alien agenda going on at the planet right now?

Laura: They only did it in response to my questions! I asked the questions, and they answered the questions! Cold truth. And I thought, "Oh, gee!", and of course there were some people in the room, "Oh, a higher level being wouldn't say that!", and they just practically ran for the door, and then I was upset myself because you want emotionally to have a warm fuzzy lie to believe in. You want to be told someway somehow that there's someway that you can excuse this. You don't want to feel like a fish in a fishbowl, where you can't see anything outside the fishbowl because it is all distorted, but you know that there is something out there that can see everything about you and watch your every move you make.

Eddie: Yeah. Now, these beings from Cassiopaea, what level of density would they reside at, do you think?

Laura: They describe themselves as sixth level density beings from the level of, what you call, unified thought forms knowledge. That's it. I mean, it's just knowledge.

Eddie: Now, the RA beings, they were claiming to be that level also, right?

Laura: Yes, and I believe they were. What part of it managed to bleed-through the bias. But you notice when you read RA that - and I respect it very much - but you notice the convoluted language, and there is often a very excessive amount of words with not a whole lot being said. On other occasions there is very needy material, very needy. And it was on those occasions when I think that their contact was purest. Of course, I believe that the contact was actually transduced through Don Elkins, that he was the connector and then their trance channel Carla telepathically was able to pull it from Don's mind and speak it. And that this was kind of a convoluted way of getting this material out. Because once Don died, RA never came again.

Eddie: Yeah.

Laura: I analyzed their work very closely. And I understood that if you restrict... Once again, what happens is like the thing with sex. If you have an idea of how something ought to be based on your emotional belief about it, say your emotional belief about a person who you have an idea how they should be, and how your idea is a lie, you see. (Eddie: Yeah.) And if you believe so firmly that the world is such and such a way and that any words that are spoken that describe this world in terms other than what you have decided a priori is the correct way it ought to be, you are believing a lie and you will attract that kind of energy. I think Don knew, he understood that the world is not the way we think it is. He was too smart a man, his commentary about the world, his experiences, his observations, tell us that. And he was very interested in asking some of these questions. But the other members of that group wouldn't allow those questions to be asked because it wasn't, quote, "of the highest and the best", it wasn't nice, you see. And of course, "nice" is really kind of subjective, first of all, second of all "nice" is a value judgment. You are required to make a value judgement in your actions and behaviours. But when you make a value judgement about the universe, about the reality, about what exists, the good and the evil must exist, coexist, interact in a dynamic way in order for creation to exist, you're basically judging God.

Eddie: Yeah, I think that would be true.

Laura: And it's not nice to fool mother nature. (laughs)

Eddie: So you don't necessarily subscribe to that view that good and evil must coexist and interact like yin and yang to create the world and reality.

Laura: Oh, yeah, I do! Absolutely, and what I'm saying is, is that we are obliged to choose which part of it we are going to enact ourselves!

Eddie: Right.

Laura: But to choose to judge the other part as being wrong or that it has no right to exist is essentially judging half of God!

Eddie: Yeah, that's pretty heavy duty statement, but something that one should really consider - that might be true!

Laura: So these are all the things that we had to deal with, as we got into this channeling experience and a lot of it gave us a foundational view of things, it gave us clues to follow. They, of course, would not answer many questions because, in some cases they told us it would violate our learning experience and in others would be dangerous, for different reasons. But most of the time if we just asked a question with no anticipation as to what the answer would be, no preconceived notions, they would just tell us the truth, this is how it is. We've been channeling since 1994... so that's six, seven years.

Eddie: So you feel like that you've got nothing but reliable information from them?

Laura: I'd say, probably if you exclude all of the commentary of other people at the sessions, that is included in the transcripts, I'd say their accuracy rating probably goes up into the 80's. They themselves gave them only like a 76-77 percent, I believe, I don't remember what the exact number was. But then, what they was describing was the published material at that point. And they did point out, because there were a couple of occasions when had people who attended the sessions who had really strong emotional beliefs, and their emotional beliefs very often blocked the receiving of any information at all because they simply couldn't give a response in the face of that energy. It would have been discourteous, and it took me a while to understand that it was discourteous, that to tell someone an answer that is contrary to their belief is an act of discourtesy, even if it is the truth, because the person is not asking for the truth. A person who doesn't ask for the truth is discourteous to tell it to them. It's not an act of true giving.

So, we learn that the way to get the most truthful and the deepest responses is to be as empty of expectations or prior beliefs when we ask our questions. And the way to do that is, of course, to just play, "Lets go in and lets do the channeling and let's leave our expectations and our beliefs at the door and let's just see what they're gonna say."

Eddie: Pressing of the proof would be in the pudding, so to speak.

Laura: Well, they always tell us, "Check things out, do not believe us because we tell you: do your research." And this has been the continuous urging that they have done. And this was kind of a funny thing, because I remember there was some information that was being sent around from another, quote, "channeled source", one of these alien space brother types. And my husband is a scientist and the information was supposedly about physics. They wanted his opinions and he wrote back, he said, "Well, it's nonsense, and here is why." And the woman wrote back, "How can you say it's nonsense? It's channeled, you don't have to check it!" (Eddie: Ooh!) And it's like, "What? Excuse me?" (laughs) So that's the general attitude.

But essentially we've just come to this realization over this long period of time, doing this research, following these clues, that when the movie The Matrix came out, my son came home - after watching the movie at the theater - and he says, "Mom, you gotta see this movie, it's everything the Cassiopaeans have told you. It's the whole world, the way they described it." And I said, "No, you don't know what ya talkin'..." You know, what does an eighteen year old kid know, right?

Well, it took a while before it came out on the video. Because my husband and I, we don't go out much, going to a theater is not our idea of a fun time, we like to have a video and lay in the bed with the remote control, so we can rewind, fast forward, or whatever. So, the video came out, we watched the movie, and we completely freaked out. I mean, it was like exact - except for the fact that they describe the Matrix as a computer system - it was exactly the same.

Even right down to the remark about, when the cat went by the room, you know, Déjà vu is a sign that the program has been changed... This was something the Cassiopaeans had said to us severely years earlier. They said, "Déjà vu comes to you courtesy of the fourth density self service beings. When they change the program, déjà vu occurs." It's a reality bridge.

Eddie: Whoever produced that movie, The Matrix, must have known something!

Laura: Well, it freaked us out completely, that's for sure. And we watched it, and even the ideas of time itself, or the ideas of our reality and how you can free your mind, become free... And this is the one thing that the Cassiopaeans have been teaching us about. Number one, free you mind from the idea of time, because time is part of the prison, it's part of the control system, the idea of linear time. Linear time is a construct that was imposed on us through monotheism.

Remember, these guys are time travelers. They can go back in the past and create religions that fall forward in time, our reality, like dominoes. (Eddie: Oh, that's interesting.) And, what's even scarier is, is if we start to being close to figuring something out, as a group, or as individuals, they can go back into the past and change something about it, so that we have figured out is no longer valid. And if you are not really paying attention, they can do it and get away with it!

Eddie: They can literally go back and change some things in the past, so that the future works out differently, then the present becomes different.

Laura: Yeah! And if you're not paying real close attention and you're not in a state of awareness about these things, you don't notice when the cat walks by the door twice. But if you are paying attention, you know when the cat walks by the door twice, that something has been changed, and you begin to look around...

For example, you mentioned Al Bielek. (Eddie: Right.) Well, not too long ago, the subject of Al Bielek and the Philadelphia experiment, and one of these days I'll talk about this, there's a whole lot of stuff about this, this thing that is VERY mysterious - and I had a copy of an interview with Al Bielek from a magazine, quite a number of years ago. And I had underlined and highlighted some things in this article, and I was going to use my notes that I wrote at the margin. So, I was going to use this, I was going to write something about it. Well, as it turned out, I went to my files and I got the file folder out, and the Al Bielek article that was in the file folder was not the one that had been there before. (Eddie: Really?) It had no underlinings, it had no circles and arrows and notes from the margins. And in fact, it did not say the things that I remembered it saying.

Well, that was upsetting enough, but then, shortly thereafter, I went into the bathroom, to brush my teeth or something, and I reached for the toothpaste; the toothpaste was gone. And I searched all over the counter, I looked at the back of the toilet, I looked at the sink, I turned around looked at the counter again - the toothpaste was not there! I started to walk over to the cabin in the corner to get a new tube of toothpaste. I came back from the cabin to the counter, and there was the original tube of toothpaste. Well... okay.

Eddie: So, what happened, they changed the program there somewhere?

Laura: Well, yes, I think that what was going on had to do with this Al Bielek Philadelphia experiment article, because I had come to a realization about this whole Philadelphia experiment that had to do with Einstein. I realized something. And I knew that the sons of bitches were changing the program! They were shifting on, because they were taking the proof of my point away from me, because it was in that article.

Eddie: Well that is totally mind blowing, to think that that is actually going on.

Laura: So, I go out to tell my husband, the whole story, I said, "This is what happened", and he started then on this, "Well, honey, are you sure that you didn't just not see it?" Well, I am aware enough that when something like this happens I KNOW to check and make sure that it is not me not seeing the toothpaste tube. The toothpaste tube WAS NOT there. And I said, "Don't even go there." (laughs) "Don't even go there."

Eddie: Well Laura, we've only got about five minutes. You have written a book. (Laura: Yes, I have.) Why don't you just tell us briefly about it and when do you think you'll get it published?

Laura: Well, that's another funny thing because I had this book right around the end of August, I think it was on the 29th August, I was just putting the finishing touches on the book, getting it ready to ship it out to the printer. And this day we had a lightning storm that was like 40 miles away, we didn't even hear the lightning. The lights flickered out and when they came back on my hard drive was fried. And I had lost a huge amount of work on the book. Fortunately we did have an older backup copy that my husband had stored on his computer so I didn't loose the entire thing, but still, going back, having to get over the upset of having lost all of this work that I had done - and I had been working like 10 to 12 hours a day for eleven days. I lost over a hundred hours of work. So I've been rebuilding it. That happened and then, of course, immediately following that, we had this thing going on with the World Trade tower thing.

So, we felt like there was a major general shift in the reality at this point in time. Because of the fact that this book really does expose the Matrix control system through historical research.

I know Graham Hancock wrote a book called Fingerprints of the Gods. Well, I don't think that he had in mind when he was doing his book to take the position that the gods might be hyperdimensional, mind marauding time traveling controllers of the Matrix. And most people when they do their research, they don't even take this approach, because we have been so conditioned into the good shepherd imagery. And nobody ever stops to ask, why do we have this image of this good shepherd, why do we have this guy nailed at the cross as the supreme symbol of godhood in our reality, and what deep subconscious psychological meaning can that have and what can it do to your psyche to ingest that with your breakfast from your infancy.

Eddie: Yeah, that's a pretty awesome image of divinity, that is a profound mystery, I guess, they would say, right?

Laura: Right, but the thing is, the subconscious influences of this image and what it does to humanity and how it makes them accept the control system, because each and every one of us is nailed to the cross by this control system.

Eddie: Oh, I have one very reverent person who said that Christianity is the cult of the dead man on the stick.

Laura: Well, I don't wanna be... You know, I was brought up in a very Christian household and in my early adulthood I was a member of a fundamentalist church. I was completely into the whole faith trip. And it was because of my sincere desire to know God that I was actually brought out of this. Because my prayers, my meditations, I think it was my sincerity of my desire to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth that caused the universe itself to interact with me dynamically and to lead me step by step to some awareness of this. Well, it's one thing to have the idea of this Matrix control system. It's another thing to find proof of it and do hard research. And this is not a channeled book, this is a book of research. It's annotated, footnoted, bibliography, the whole nine yards.

Eddie: What's the title going to be?

Laura: The title is The Noah Syndrome, Raiders of the Ark versus the Guardians of the Grail.

Eddie: Oh boy, I can't wait to see that book and really look forward to reading it and getting you back on again to talk about the book more when it comes out. We're out of time, I hate to say it, but this has been a very very intriguing interview. And we've only just barely scratched the surface here.

Laura: That's the truth.

Eddie: And I sure appreciate you being on with us tonight.

Laura: Well, I thank you for inviting me.

Eddie: Just give us your website one more time quick before we have to sign off.

Laura: Okay, it's www.cassiopaea.org. And it's a BIG website, take you time and don't be scared because even if we jerk your chain and kill all your sacred cows, it doesn't mean we're not gonna give you something back that's worth a lot more.

Eddie: Surely, a lot there to think about. I surely have found that to be true and I scratched only the surface of your website. Well, Laura thanks again for being on and we're gonna let you go. (Laura: Thank you!) And we look forward to get you back on again so we can continue on more in depth where we're leaving here in our interview tonight.

Laura: Thank you very much!

Eddie: You've been listening to Night Search. We'll be back on again next Wednesday and Thursday night for the Night Search Radio show. Stay tuned to the network, we've got some great shows coming up tomorrow. So, goodnight folks!