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Niall: Hello and welcome to SOTT Talk Radio. I'm Niall Bradley, together with co-host Joe Quinn. We're joined this week by SOTT editor Juliana Barembuem. On today's show we are interviewing a very special guest, author and historian Laura Knight-Jadcyzk. Laura is a 7th generation Floridian whose roots in the U.S. go back to before the revolution. Because of her lifelong interest in science and spirit, she began what has become to be known as the Cassiopaean Experiment in 1994, an experiment in superluminal communication.
Thus far she has written thirteen books which combine science and mysticism. Although her own story forms part of the material, in her eight volume series 'The Wave', Laura has also written a separate biography called 'Amazing Grace', a book on 9/11, 9/11, The Ultimate Truth, and a book on JFK, JFK: The Assassination of America.
Laura has also written hundreds of articles on everything from esotericism to so-called "climate change", which are published both online and in print. Together with her husband, physicist/mathematician, Arkadiusz Jadczyk, Laura established an active online forum and several websites as a result of this experiment: news and commentary website SOTT.net, cassiopaea.org, and paleochristianity.org.
Together, with other researchers, Laura created the Eiriu Eolas stress reduction and rejuvenation program. She's also the founder of the Fellowship of the Cosmic Mind, Church of Revived Paleochristianity. Laura was one of the earliest voices to expose 9/11 as a false-flag event, and was probably the first to call attention to psychopathy in politics.
Having said all that, I'm afraid that my introduction barely scrapes the surface of the talents, interests and accomplishments of this woman. So without further ado, welcome Laura.
Laura: Thank you for that Niall.
Joe: Yeah, that was... Did you realise you'd done so much? Just the way it's summed up there?!...
Laura: I'm exhausted just listening to the list!
Joe: Yeah. It's bringing back all the memories of having gone through all of that, and the whole process, which kind of leads me into a first question.
Just looking back on your life, and back to where it kind of all began, - as you've said in some of your books, you've been doing this kind of thing for maybe 40 years now, or more - and when you look back on that, have you ever thought about what it was in you - because you're rather unique, when you take the average person on the street , in terms of what you've done, and then the vast array of topics that you've researched and published on. So what was it that started you off at the very beginning on the course that you have lead throughout your life?
Laura: I think it's something that's common enough to many people, and that is to find out what being alive is about, what reality is about, why are we here, what are we supposed to do, is there ultimately any meaning to our existence?
Joe: So, the meaning of life?
Laura: Yeah, just...
Joe: But there are a lot of answers on offer for a lot of people, and that's why maybe a lot of people don't do the kinds of things you did.
Laura: Well those answers weren't very satisfying, and when you - there's something that goes with wanting to know the meaning of life, it's not just wanting somebody to give me an answer. I really wanted to know, and I wanted to know the Truth. And I would hear an answer, say, for example, what was taught to me as I was growing up and the religious training in my house, it was "is this the truth?"
So I wanted to know everything about it, and the more I explored it, the more I realised it couldn't possibly be the truth, because it just didn't make sense. It was illogical, and it didn't answer all of the many questions that occurred to me as I observed what happened to other people and the world around me: in my family, in my friends, reading the news or hearing the news, or knowing about different situations. And there were a number of situations in my own family history that were rather tragic, and these answers didn't satisfy.
Joe: Well I suppose what you're saying then is that there was a desire to understand - which you suggest a lot of people have - to understand the nature of, you know, the meaning of life. But you tended to not want to accept the first answer that came along, at least not without investigating it, and when you investigated it you found that it was lacking.
Laura: Well it wasn't just that I tended not to want to accept it, it was that the answer didn't answer the question. I mean, you ask a question, you expect a reasonable answer, and the answers that were given didn't answer the question. I was the proverbial kid where, you know, "Why is the sky blue?"
"Well, because of this."
"Well, why is that?"
And then you keep going, and going, and going until the parent would say "Oh for God's sakes, would you go play in the sandbox!" or something. I just never got over that because I just keep asking, well why did that happen, and what caused that? And you keep grabbing threads and you keep pulling on them, and pulling on them and it's just - it's been an incredible journey, it really has.
Joe: Well I would sort of maintain then, based on your answer, that that approach isn't the average approach that most people take to finding answers. People may all have questions, as a part of being a human being, to what the meaning of life is, but most people tend to, based on the state of the world today, most people don't really tend to push it very far in terms of investigation. So there's something else, but let's just say we don't know what it is, it's something ineffable.
Laura: Well yeah, and I guess that my particular character, my nature, adds to the mix. Like I said, things have to be logical, they have to make sense, and I'm really kind of very, very stubborn, and if something doesn't make sense I want to know why it doesn't make sense, and I'm a little ruthless with myself. Because if I come across something that really upsets me, but it does make sense - and this is something that I went through years ago, because it was difficult to transition out of a very strong religious background to where I am today.
But you know, there's even an answer for why - Bob Altemeyer wrote a book on amazing conversions, about why some people convert to religion, and why some people convert out of it, and he did some scientific studies on it, and I pretty much fit the profile of the person who converts out of religion. You get conditioned from your childhood to the idea that there is truth, and that truth is very valuable. That's the first thing that happens. And there's something in you that responds to that and says yes, I can see that because that is logical, the truth is important and it's valuable, and it's a goal to be sought.
And then you turn around and you apply that principle to the beliefs that you're being taught in religious terms, and then you say wait a minute, you know, this part of that religion that says truth is important, "Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free", that's a good thing, but the rest doesn't - I mean, the story that goes with that cannot possibly be true.
So it's like, for many people being brought up in a religious background, programs into them or inculcates into them certain principles that take. And then that becomes their foundational principle in respect of everything, literally everything, including the religion that puts that into them.
Joe: So it's kind of a trap, in a certain sense?
Laura: Yeah. But it's a useful thing because, in a certain sense, you could say that Christianity has in it a sneaky little program that works on certain kinds of people, and I'm not the only one who thinks that way or feels that way about the religion, you know. I'm not the only person who has looked at it, who has grown up, and said yes, truth is valuable, and then turned around and said this religion can't be true in the sense that they're promulgating it.
So I don't think that's particularly extraordinary, I mean Altemeyer found plenty of people who went through a similar process, and nearly all of them went through it rather painfully and protractedly. It took time, it took effort. But they were all - I mean truth, even to yourself, being honest even with yourself; "I can't believe that" is what you say. But when you give it up, then you also give up a whole lot of the familiarity of your life growing up, and things like fellowship with family members who refuse to give it up and who think that you are the black sheep of the family, or you're heretical, or something along that line. I mean I used to say some really off the wall things about religion when I was a kid, and my grandmother would call me a little heathen!
Joe: [Chuckle]
Niall: She was teasing you?!
Laura: Well she was in a sense teasing me, but I can still hear her voice saying "Oh Laura, you don't really mean that do you!?" And yeah, I did! But I understood that it upset her for me to say things that were kind of like, well if god did that well he wasn't very loving, or if he did that then he wasn't very smart, and if he did that then he wasn't omnipotent, you know.
And then she would just be shocked. So no, I'm not the only one, and it is part of the very unique thing about Christianity that it places this enormous emphasis on truth. You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free. I am the way, the truth and the life and no man cometh unto the father but by me. Those things take root in you and you use them to the max.
Joe: Yeah.
Niall: But most don't though.
Joe: Well, it's...
Laura: No, because they get to the point where, the painful part - well if you read Altemeyer's study, 'Amazing Conversions', he talks about the different kinds of people, some even brought up in non-religious households who get converted because they too are searching for the truth. But they want an easy truth, they want to feel good, you see?
For me, it wasn't a question of feeling good, because I was also brought up with this real Protestant work ethic. If you're not working and if you're not doing things for others, or taking care of business, or doing whatever, you're wasting your time, you're wasting your life. And it doesn't have to feel good, because work is all about doing what needs to be done because it needs to be done. Because it's there, you are there, it needs to be done, and you can do it. So there was this other aspect, so I would say that the Protestant part of it also played a role, and the work ethic in my family which was always very hard working.
You know, I had a grandfather who raised me, and my grandfather was missing the middle finger on one of his hands, and on the other hand he was missing half the middle finger. And the story about how he lost these fingers, he was an engineer. He was at a job, and he was overseeing something, and he put his hand in somewhere to show somebody how to do something, and they let go of a big piece of equipment, and it fell on his hand and it crushed his finger. Well he went to the doctor, had the finger removed, stitched up, and went back to the job. So this was the kind of people...
Niall: That same day??
Laura: That same day, yes. So this is the kind of background I had, that pain - you do what you have to do no matter how much it hurts, and even if it's hurting you keep going. So for me that was another thing that I thought was valuable.
Joe: Well in a certain sense that could be applied in two very different ways depending on the person. The one person who was brought up with that ethos would stick with their religion through thick and thin, no matter what doubts they had. And another person like you would go the opposite direction, but based on the same kind of motivation, to keep going no matter how much it hurts. On the one hand it's the hurt of resisting the doubts and sticking to religion, and on the other hand it's pushing through and believing your eyes, rather than what they tell you.
Laura: Get thee behind me Satan! [Laughter] Yeah those kind of arguments can be used.
Joe: Yeah. It's kind of like, from what you're saying, it's almost like you're suggesting that most people are born with some kind of an innate desire to know the truth, but religion comes along very quickly in their lives...
Laura: Gives them the answers.
Joe: And tells them what the answer is. And because they're maybe immature, as children basically, they just adopt that, and then they - like it globs into them.
Laura: And then it feels good, it feels safe. The fear of being rejected or the fear of being called a heathen or whatever, but those things never bothered me. And I guess there's also the other thing, because Altemeyer points out that most people who convert to religion usually have problems that they can't solve in their life, and they need somebody outside to give them some kind of strength. And there's a psychologist named Schmukler who wrote an interesting bit about endoskeletons and exoskeletons, there are people who feel strong inside and people who don't. There are authoritarian followers who need to be told what to do, and there are people like me who don't like to be told what to do.
That was another thing, because in spite of all this, I had a great deal of freedom growing up. I grew up in Florida when it was a paradise, and I had a lot of freedom, you know, a lot of time to really enjoy myself in the wilderness or the wild, or whatever, because we had a farm and beach, and swimming, and tromping around in the woods, and hanging out with our friends, and it was a great time growing up in the '50s and '60s when you weren't afraid of everything and everybody, and you'd go around, be gone for hours, and come back home.
So there were just a lot of elements that just came together. And I think also being intellectually inclined, and growing up in a family where reading was very important and education was extremely important, was a very powerful influence on me. I started reading when I was three years old, and by the time I was 10, I was reading probably at College level. And by the time I was in junior high school I was reading a book every single day, an entire book, because at that point I had a great teacher who gave us a six week training in speed-reading. And I also kind of have a semi-photographic memory, I don't forget much.
Niall: I see. How many books do you read a day now?
Laura: Well now I don't read books a day because I spend so much time working with our people, with our forums, and doing research, that I spend a lot of time scanning and reading things from the internet, or reading scholarly papers and so forth, and I do most of my - I don't know, I guess it would probably amount to a book a day, the amount of reading I do, because I really do a lot of reading, but it's not in books, it's mostly online. And then when I go to bed at night I spend a half hour to an hour reading whatever my current research topic is. Usually they're very dry books that nobody else in the world reads, or very few, only scholars read them. But I read them, and I actually enjoy them!
Joe: That's the masochist in you!
Laura: Yes, it's the 'do it no matter how bad it hurts'.
Joe: It's that protestant work ethic.
Juliana: Speaking of masochism, it seems that a lot of people write to us about why is nothing easy? Why do you have to pay so much? Why isn't there any free lunch? And it seems to me that, from what you're saying, since you were little, you kept that curiosity, almost like a child has, to learn, and learn, and learn, and assimilate. And that comes, also, with a price, but you're not afraid of that, or you learned somehow that suffering leads to something that is much more valuable. And we still keep getting this reaction that "oh it's depressing" or "I just want the easy way". How did you come to realise that that wasn't your path?
Laura: Oh, that's kind of a tough one. Well I'll give you, I mean, there were many incidents that I observed in my life where people took the easy way and it always ended badly, I could see it. And the thing was, like I just mentioned, I think probably one of the most amazing gifts that I was given genetically, and for which I am enormously grateful, is my memory. And I wouldn't forget when I saw these situations. Somebody would do something, something would happen, they would take the easy way out, or "Oh it'll be fine", or "Least said, soonest mended", and then disaster would follow. And it was like, couldn't they see that coming? They took the easy way, they wanted to feel good, and disaster followed.
And you know, it really struck me very powerfully. When you go through life observing, and of course you read a lot of stories, and you read biographies, and I read lots and lots of history, and over and over again, whenever I would read a story about somebody who took the easy way, or wanted to feel good, it was always disaster! I remembered it, it just piled up in my head like a giant mountain building in my mind, that whenever people do that, it's bad! It's obviously bad. And I could see it also happening in people's lives around me. And some of those instances, some of them would be kind of personal, but I can give one little example.
I had a girl friend when I was just out of high school. And she was already married and had two or three children - she was a little bit older than I was. And I was at her house one day, and her little girl was diabetic, had become diabetic very early in her life, so it was like type I diabetes, and she was already on insulin, and she had lots of problems. She had two or three other children and her husband. And the thing was, this girl wasn't allowed to have many things because of her illness, but the family didn't see any reason that they should deny themselves what she couldn't have, just to give her moral support, or in solidarity with her.
So there was always a lot of the things she couldn't eat, cookies and candies, things like that, that she kept on top of the refrigerator. And I was there, and the little girl was crying "Mommy, I want some candy! I gotta have some candy!"
"No, no. If you have candy you'll have to increase your medication, you may have to go to the doctor, it could make you sick...."
"Oh mommy, I gotta have it..."
And then after five minutes of this or so - of course I wondered why it was all there, why doesn't the family give all that up? Give her support? Why do they put it on the refrigerator where she can see it? And finally after five minutes of crying for it, her mother says "Oh alright, but you know what's gonna happen, you're gonna have to have an extra shot, da da da..."
And she gave this child with diabetes candy, which she shouldn't have had, knowing what it was going to do to her, and setting up a pattern in her life where doing the easy thing, taking the way that was easy, feeling good, was deadly. And I remember that incident, and it kind of froze in my mind forever, because it symbolised everything and everybody that I had ever seen or known about who took the easy way. And I asked her, I said "Why did you do that?" And she says "But I love her so much, I can't say no."
It just staggered my mind that she could say "I love her so much", and what that kind of love meant. Because, as it turned out, this child died rather young.
Niall: And what's happening there? Is she not able to foresee - the mother - the consequences? She must have been told explicitly...
Laura: Well certainly she was told explicitly what would happen if she didn't do some monitoring and not let things get out of hand. It was just horrifying. It was horrifying to me. And how many people are like that? "I can't tell her no, I can't say no, I want to feel good", because more than anything else the mother wanted to feel good. She didn't want her child to say "Mommy, I don't like you, I hate you", and, you know...
Joe: Well it kind of involves a certain fairly uncommon and pretty deep understanding of human psychology as well, or it would require that for a parent in that situation to act in the right way, to know that, in a general sense, human beings will very often demand things that aren't good for them, or want things that aren't good for them. And if someone is in a position of responsibility over them, or a friend, or even someone who can give advice, kind of should give advice to a person to save them from themselves sometimes, because people don't always make the right decisions, right? So it's kind of like, just because someone says "I really, really want this, will you help me to do it?", you don't just go along and do it because they're your friend if you can see that it's bad for them. I mean it seems fairly prosaic in a way, but so many people just give in; can't say no.
Laura: They want to feel good. And it's particularly difficult in the parent-child relationship, because it's mostly about narcissism. "I want my child to make me feel good, and when the child is not making me feel good I want to do whatever it is", even to the point of harming the child's health. And I don't know if it takes really deep psychology to understand that, but it obviously was a little deeper than what she could understand.
Joe: Well at least a bit of reflection.
Laura: Yeah, but people don't reflect and they don't think, and more than anything, this is the thing. More than anything I saw that people wanted to feel good. That theme repeated over and over again in things that I was observing in other people's lives, and, you know...
Joe: So is that what kind of led you, probably one of the things that ultimately led you, to do a lot of research into human psychology?
Laura: Absolutely. I mean, really early on I wanted to understand why people do the things they do, why they think the things they think, what's going on? And of course part of that interest included things like reincarnation, because you give up your Christian religion more or less - well actually I really didn't, but the way it's formulated in most of the mainstream churches, I gave up - and that kind of meant that, okay, you have to look and see if any of these other religions have it. So one by one I was peeling through them, exploring them, looking at what they were teaching, and the truth is that it's just a lot of variations on pretty much the same old, same old. But there was reincarnation. So of course, is reincarnation real? I mean, it's kind of a logical thing if you start thinking about the animating spirit of bodies and the difference between living bodies and inanimate objects, rocks, minerals, and things like that, that there is something very, very different about living things from non-living things. So what is this animating thing? Is it just kind of like a by-product? And of course it didn't seem logical that it was, and so I thought I would explore reincarnation. And that got me into hypnosis and training to be a hypnotherapist, and I spent many, many years poking around in people's heads, trying to find out what was making everybody tick. And that led to a lot of different things.
Joe: What was your conclusion about reincarnation?
Laura: Well I have to tell you what I tell everybody. I don't believe anything, because belief, to me, is like, you give up something. But I give it a really, really high probability. You have to understand that there could be one bit of data that could come along that could completely disprove it. It hasn't come along in my life yet, and I keep looking, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, because the Universe is kind of infinite and endless. So I think it's really highly probable, and I have had some really astonishing experiences in my own personal life, and in the lives of my family, and all of the people that I worked with, with hypnotherapy.
I am about as convinced of it as that the sun will rise tomorrow, and I think that's got a really high probability of happening. I mean there is this really remote chance that it won't, that our star will go out all of a sudden [laughing] or explode, or whatever.
Joe: In terms of the alternative, the mainstream kind of alternative, which is "one life and heaven/hell", I think, even if it has to remain in the realm of belief, reincarnation is a much better and more positive, for humanity in general - belief than the one life and heaven/hell, because there's all sorts of kind of - if people actually believed it, if it was spread around through Christianity and Islam, the dominant faiths, if they all had reincarnation as part of their belief system and people believed it, it would have a lot of positive, I think, changes, or effects on humanity in terms of just the very idea that you could come back - because it tends to involve karma, and even for racism and stuff like that, if people believed that this life I'm...
Laura: This life I'm white, next time I'm black, last time I was black, this time I'm Jewish, next time I'm Christian, or vice versa.
Joe: It would tend to have a...
Laura: It would tend to have a levelling effect on how people think about themselves and each other, and yeah it would be a very beneficial thing if it were more widely spread as a concept.
Joe: But it's very much kind of suppressed by the mainstream religions, and they certainly hold on to their...
Laura: Yeah, the mainstream religions of course, suppress it, and they kind of dominate. But then, of course science represses that, along with mainstream religions, but they've kind of established a peaceful coexistence between science and religion. Science is all about matter and religion is all about spiritual matters, because you know, whatever - "I refer you to your pastor, or your religion. You can believe what you want to believe, but we're talking about atoms and molecules and so and so, so don't bring that into the laboratory, because you just go consult your pastor".
And they keep that kind of really separated and they frame the debate that way, it's either/or, and as a result, human beings are really deprived of anything that could be really useful and helpful to their relationships with themselves, with their families, with their society, and societies with other societies, and, it's really sad. It's really sad.
Joe: What you were just saying kind of brings up, or touches on the idea of science and religion, creationism or, sorry, the theory of evolution versus intelligent design. I know you've written about this in the past. Can you sum up your stance on this? Do you support Richard Dawkins as, what did he say? He said he considers faith, as belief that is not based on evidence, as one of the world's great evils, and claims that the world would be more peaceful without faith.
Laura: I think he's wrong. I think faith is very important. Not belief, faith.
Joe: Uh-huh, he said 'faith'.
Laura: Yeah well, faith is extremely important, but not belief. And Richard Dawkins and his ilk with their big bang theory, I mean just think about it. A primal atom of unimaginable density suddenly exploded and its explosion initiated all the matter in the universe, space itself, and time, and from that, with a little jostling around in the primordial soup, everything came to be in something like 12, 13 billion years - they keep changing the date. And if I ever in my life heard a creationist story, that is it, because Dawkins himself, in one of his books, when he's asked the question, well where did the primordial atom come from, he says 'well it's not my job to answer that question, ask the physicists'. I mean talk about a cheap escape from that.
Joe: Dodging it, yeah.
Laura: And of course the whole thing is, that is so improbable. And that's not to say that I don't think that evolution is not a very powerful part of what happens in our reality, but it doesn't happen the way they say it happens. And if anybody wants to read a really good book on it, which I think is probably getting as close to the right answer, it's what's his name, Shiller?
Juliana: The Fifth Option?
Laura: Yeah, The Fifth Option. It's really... Robert [Bryant] Shiller, was that his name? But anyhow, he wrote this great little book called The Fifth Option. And the interesting thing about it is Shiller is an engineer, and what he did was he looked at the living system, you know, life itself, as an engineering problem. And if you have an engineering problem, you are presented with something, you begin to examine its characteristics, and then you kind of like extrapolate backwards to find out what the design purpose could be. And then if you have design functions, you can figure out the design purpose, and then you can speculate at least, about the designer.
I don't think there is a designer as such; I think what is the substrate of all existence is just simply information, and information configures itself in many, many ways. And information, ultimately, if you think about it in computer terms, it's just the many myriad ways that yes and no, on andoff, zero and one can be configured, and endless streams of it. In a sense, you know, some of those images from the movie The Matrix come pretty close to showing how our reality may be constructed. It's just these long strings of zeroes and ones, 'ons' and 'offs', 'yeses' and 'nos' that interact with each other and...
Joe: Yeah but where did it come from? I mean, isn't that the problem that all these people are trying to wrestle with?
Laura: Yes, that is the problem.
Joe: And is there an answer to that, or is there even any point in trying to?...
Laura: I don't think we, at our level of existence, can get that answer. I think we can go further into the question than the evolutionists or the Dawkins types can do, which is what physics actually does, and what mathematics actually does, and what my husband does. But, you know, ultimately you realise that what you can do is, you can configure those zeroes and ones, and you can do the mathematics, but beyond that you cannot go.
Juliana: Okay well if we can't figure that out, how does that translate, even? How does information translate into matter, for example, or into consciousness? I mean information is out there right?, and we pick it up like we were an antenna of some sort, and what if you have wrong information, lies?
Laura: Well those are just a couple of different questions kind of piled up together. How does matter come into being, is one question, and the issue about lies is another question. How does matter come into being? Well, as I said, it's configuration of yes /no, positive/negative. If you want to talk about it in terms of electricity it's like charge separation. Then there's many other physics terms, and you're getting into something here that's very, very difficult to talk about. But if you would imagine - if we're just going to talk about yeses and noes or positive/negatives, zeroes/ones. Let's just imagine that there's a whole bunch of zeroes associating, which are noes, which are impetus to non-existence, or parts of the ideas of non-existence. A whole bunch of noes with maybe just a few ones, which would be positives, or the impetus to existing, or creation, associated together. Well that would be kind of like a piece of matter, that would form as matter.
Now if you have something that has a whole bunch of ones, which is impetus to creation, and just a few zeroes, which would be the noes, or the non-existence, then you would have something like a spiritualised concept, perhaps. So you would kind of cluster things, you would add them together, it's like addition and subtraction.
And I would say that from an ideological or informational realm, that if there was a whole bunch of the noes that kind of glomped together, maybe in a way like just jostling around in a soup, but it's an idea soup. And they jostled around, they all kind of clumped together, and there was a little bit of, you know, just enough of the ones to give it the impetus to become matter, in the sense of hard matter, then it would kind of like burst into existence all of a sudden, it would just be a little bubble.
And then if you have a bunch of that happening, because there's so many infinite ideas and so many infinite concepts, concepts of like hydrogen and nitrogen and helium. So you start having these really basic little conceptual things popping into reality, and lots of them, and lots of them. And then they start jostling around, and because of the affinities, due to their accumulations or their properties of yeses/noes or positives/negatives, then they begin to clump together, because they have this tendency to do that, the same way the fat on a bowl of soup has a tendency to want to clump together, you know, it wants to form a big bubble on your soup.
And then you would have matter, and then you would still, in the information realm you would still be having clumps of more spiritualized idea things that still had enough of the zeroes that would give them kind of a tendency to want to connect, by some kind of charge, to a piece of matter. So they would then connect to it, and the matter that would be in one realm of existence, or one plane, and then there would be the spiritualized idea that would be kind of connected to it by a tenuous little link still in the spiritual realm, and it would infuse this bit of matter with information. It would create a channel for information so that piece of matter could then begin to do little more interesting things. And then you just multiply this process and then you get some pretty basic living cells, like for example a virus.
I mean this might be how viruses actually come into being, because they are, they're really kind of not really alive, and not really lifeless. They need a cell to get into in order to come alive, because they don't have all the properties of a cell, and viruses can float around in space, probably for billions of years and be dormant, and then finally land on a place where there's a living cell, and they kind of get into it, because they've got little programs.
And that's the interesting thing about it because all of these things are like little programs, like DNA are programs, viruses are programs. So maybe a virus is one of the most basic ways that information gets transmitted from other realms into our world.
And that kind of leads, in a funny sort of way, to your question about information and lies. What if viruses are infusions of information that create order? I mean think about it. What if there is a civilization that is loaded with lies and it has a deficit, and there is something that needs to happen, and virii arrive on the scene with a certain kind of information and begin invading the cells?
Well in those individuals where the information quality and quantity is kind of topped up with truth, maybe the virus won't have any effect, and maybe in those people where they have a real deficit, the virus invades and takes over and the body dies, and everything is returned to the information field. Yeah it's just a lot of interesting thoughts about that.
Joe: Mm-hm. We have a few questions here from people in our chat room. First of all I should say you've written a lot of books, thirteen I think, at last count. Is it more than thirteen?
Niall: Sixteen.
Joe: Sixteen. They just keep growing. And they span a broad range of subjects, probably all of them. Probably the best description of you is that you're a historian, but not in the traditional sense, because it's the history of everything as opposed to just classical history or ancient history or something like that. But you have written on those topics as well. And just while I'm on the topic of your books actually, I just should tell our listeners that for a short period of time, several of your Kindle books are on special offer on Amazon, the various Amazon stores. You can see them on the sott.net web page. There's up to 57% off some of your books on Kindle, so people should get them while they're hot.
Niall: Yes the books are Laura's biography, Amazing Grace, the Apocalypse: Comets, Asteroids, and Cyclical Catastrophes, and the third one is High Strangeness: Hyperdimensions and the Process of Alien Abduction'. They're all on sale this week.
Laura: Get to the question!
Joe: Yeah getting back to the question here... Given this amount of research you've done etc. - we had to do a bit of promotion there, you know?! - given this amount of research you've done, what has been the discovery in your research that has most 'blown your mind'?
Laura: Wow. 'Blown my mind'? Hmm...
Joe: At any point in time.
Juliana: Well, you can name three if you want.
Laura: I think the first one was probably the realization that our reality undoubtedly is extruded or created from another level of reality, not just another plane of existence, but something completely different from anything that the esotericists have told us down through the centuries, and that all of the stuff that most esotericists deal with, is just what you would call the non-material range of things in our reality. It's like most people only reach to non-material realms that are still commensurate with our particular level.
But the realization that there was something, and probably a number of 'somethings', above and beyond that, and that it goes through several steps before it even gets to where we are. And that the things that are below us, you know, such as the animal kingdom and the mineral kingdom, basic matter, that those were realities too, in a certain sense. And all of these realities interpenetrate. And seeing that and understanding it, I think that was the first mind blower.
Joe: What led you to see that? Was it just a conglomeration of...
Laura: Well that was something that came through the Cassiopaean experiment, because I'd spent all these years poking around in peoples' heads, dealing with reincarnation, studying religion, psychology, mysticism, etc. And pretty much most of it was just the same old, same old repackaged stuff with just variations. I mean you look at one religion, you look at another, you look at one esoteric system, you look at another, etc.
And most esoteric systems, believe it or not, are predicated on the idea that the mainstream religions are true, and that seems like a pretty bizarre thing, but that is what they're based on. And the same thing with most new age stuff, it's all predicated on there being some kind of truth to mainstream religions. If one is Judaism, or Islam, or Christianity, or Shinto, or Buddhism, or nature religions or whatever; they're still all kind of predicated on the basic religious ideas that exist in our reality being more or less true, with some variation.
So when I came to the idea that, well, I'm not satisfied with that, there's got to be a way to go farther and deeper and better, and I had also noticed that throughout the history of the spiritualist movement, and even further back, the ideas of many of the ancients, where were some of these things coming from? Because they were like flashes here and there, that you could detect there was something more, something deeper, but what was it really?
And of course everybody's like "oh well we've got the answer", and then you start looking at their answer and you pay $500 for their course, and so on and so forth, and then you find out it's just another variation on the same load of garbage. So that's why I began the experiment. And I kind of formulated a theory before I even started, that the reason we exist in this reality is because this is where we fit. And if we wanted to be able to get in touch with, or get information from anything that was really higher, other than - because as Edgar Cayce said, a dead Presbyterian is just that, a dead Presbyterian. And most of what people were communicating with were just what I call 'dead dudes'. And then there was a lot of fraud, but basically it was just dead spirits. And how do you know they're telling the truth, because most often you find that they're not. So how do you get beyond that? How do you get above that?
And the idea was, well, if you want to do that it takes more than one person, because the human, as we are in our normal state, the human physiology, the human brain system in the state that we normally achieve through our experiences, our learning, our challenges in this three dimensional life, simply doesn't get you to the point where you can carry that kind of current. So it takes more than one person. And that was part of my idea behind that.
So anyway, that's what led me to that. But then there's the other one, I think probably this last eighteen months or so, how long has it been?
Joe: Yeah, about that.
Laura: About that, that I started working on volume three of my 'Secret History of the World' and I was just going along, and I was going to race through the Roman empire and get in all of the elements of cometary disaster, or portents, or plagues, or earthquakes and things like that, basically to show that these are things that most historians really ignore and that they really were happening, because I was comparing them to the geological and archaeological research. Historians have only recently begun to kind of allow archaeology and geology and other sciences, climatology, to influence their work.
So I was going to take it a step further and also bring in some of the work of Victor Clube, which brings in some cosmology, astronomy, and so forth. So I was going to make this big combination, right? So I was racing through the history of Rome because I really wanted to get to the collapse of Rome. And I was really getting there, and I was writing about the comet of Constantine, because there's evidence that what Constantine saw in the sky that caused his conversion - so the story goes; there's a lot of problems with that story - to Christianity was actually a comet impact somewhere in the northern part of Italy.
And in order to really get all of the details around this, because I really wanted to know what was going on, I was going deeply into Diocletian and this whole set up, how Constantine became Roman emperor. And somewhere I came across the little fact that after Constantine had done his little usurping and there was Maximus over in Rome, and things were going on that Diocletian came out of retirement. Now, he's the only Roman emperor who's ever retired, which is kind of interesting. And I thought to myself, well, he retired, and that means he was probably an interesting guy, a lot more interesting than our history tells us. But also, he and his fellow emperors met and erected an altar to Mithras.
So at that point I just simply wanted to put in a two or three paragraph description of Mithraism and then keep on moving. I mean, I was going fast! And I started looking around on the web, and I couldn't get a serious answer, but I found there were two or three books that were referenced, so I said 'okay, put everything on pause, order the books, got to read about Mithraism'.
And then I read about Mithraism, and basically it got traced back to the time of Julius Caesar. And I said okay, I have to back up and look at Caesar again, because I had just skimmed over him rather quickly. I ended the section about Caesar, which was just 'blah-blah-blah, Julius Caesar conquered everything and had this big impact, and Rome gained an empire and lost its republic, and acquired an emperor'. You know, it was just kind of like a little snappy, condensed history.
And I said "oh no, I got to go back and look at this. Because I really want to know about this Mithraism business, because the thing is, Mithraism was kind of like the main competition for Christianity. So, what's the deal here? And I started reading about Caesar a little more carefully.
Now I didn't know that much about Caesar except just enough to write a few paragraphs about what he did, and I got stuck there. And I started saying 'wait a minute, something really strange is going on here'. And I started getting everything I could possibly get my hands on about the times of Julius Caesar, and I had to order all of the texts. I mean my god! At this point it's like, several hundred books later, and probably a couple thousand scholarly papers later.
And at some point I was reading along and I thought to myself, wow, this guy said things and did things, and the story of his life is like the story of Jesus. And I thought I was kind of crazy just for thinking that. I came down to breakfast one morning and I announced, I said, "you know, I think that maybe the story of Jesus was actually based on the life of Caesar". And everybody at the breakfast table looked at me like I'd taken leave of my senses, and they all began arguing with me: 'How can you say that?!' Because, you know, here I've spent forty years trying to find a single, solitary piece of actual, hard evidence or data that somebody called Jesus ever actually existed and, I mean zero, zilch, nada, nothing. There isn't any.
And here's the life story of somebody who we know is a real historical person, and if you really read the details in depth, not the military histories or the political histories, but you've got to read the details, you've got to get into it. And there's a wonderful book by Stefan Weinstock called Divus Julius. So everybody thought I was crazy and started arguing with me, so I started listing all the things that Caesar had done, and then why I thought that this - I mean like the big entrance to the city, the people lining the streets, laying the palm branches on the road in front of him, crying 'hosanna!' and so on and so forth.
But I was just talking about his life, just talking about what his life was like. And feeding the poor, his big thing was feeding the poor, taking care of the poor, giving land to the poor, getting rid of the rich. And his constant struggle with the oligarchy at Rome, the Senate, the optimates, I mean it was - and the argumentation that went on between him and Cicero, it was like Jesus and the Pharisees, and Jesus and the Sadducees, you know. The whole dynamic was so similar!
So at that point I had to stop because we went on a trip, and then when I came back I started talking about it again, because while I was gone I had continued to think about it. And then one of our researchers - I said I wonder if anybody else has thought anything about this. So she went online and she found that there actually were two other people who had the same idea, but they came at it from completely different directions. They didn't come at it from pure historical research into the life of Julius Caesar. They came at it from completely different directions.
One of them was Francesco Carotta, and he came at it from the fact that the funeral oration of Mark Anthony over the body of Caesar - and all of the things that happened at the death of Caesar - was, step by step, almost line by line, a recreation of the passion of Jesus, even to the fact of the facsimile of Caesar's stabbed body being raised up on a cross. And there were actors who were playing the part of Caesar and repeating his words, "Did I save them that they should kill me?" And various other expressions that were part of the liturgy of the Christian passion.
And even the story of Caesar's body being there for a certain number of hours, before somebody came to take it when he was assassinated, was almost equivalent to Jesus hanging on the cross for a certain number of hours before somebody came to take him. And then they took him home, and they put him in his wife's lap, basically, from which you get this famous image of Michelangelo's Pieta. And there are many other similar images that were even older than his of the dead Jesus in his "so called", in his mother's lap.
Well of course Julius Caesar was extremely attached to his mother and a very loyal son throughout his life; his mother was dead, but he was married to Calpurnia. And she was younger than him, and very beautiful, and so you see these depictions of this man with stab wounds in him, lying in this woman's lap.
And then there was the curious fact that one of the main conspirators, the one who was really pushing the assassination, was Cassius Longinus. And there is the story that came down through history about the Roman centurion at the cross, you know, Longinus, who was the one who stabbed Jesus in the side, under the ribs, and the water flowed out.
And then you have this strange conversion of elements: Judas-Brutus, Julius Caesar-Jesus Christ, and then this ultimate, ultimate betrayal. And the funny thing was that Caesar, the night before he was assassinated, was at dinner - you know, the last supper - and the discussion was recorded of what they discussed, which was they wanted to know what everybody thought, what was the best kind of death? And what Caesar said, you know, "whatever it is, it's just better if it's unknown and it's fast, it's quick death. Quick and unknown."
And then there's this remark or this part of the story of Jesus, where he told Judas to leave the table, and "what you must do, do quickly."
So you know, I mean, so many elements. So anyway, Carotta went through as a linguist and showed how over time, the copying and re-copying, and the misunderstandings, and the transpositions from Latin to Greek, to Syriac, and the various language things that were going on, exactly how, step by step, by standard linguistic rules, the story got changed and the name got changed.
And then of course there's this other guy, Atwill, who came along and wrote about - he's actually the third person. Actually he's not. He doesn't see the...
Joe: Jesus and Caesar.
Laura: ... the Jesus and Caesar connection. He thinks the Flavians and Josephus just created it pretty much out of whole cloth. But he did add some interesting things, because there was kind of like a combining of the elements of this story of this 'Jesus', who was a Judean rebel, and also a friend of Josephus. And he kind of wrote the story about him in his histories of the wars of the Jews and so forth.
So there are a lot of elements that all came together, and I would say that, you know, it's kind of like, I'm going to write about it, and I'm going to bring all the evidence together. Carotta's got a chunk, he doesn't have the whole banana. This other guy, Gary Courtney, did a beautiful job analysing the Gospel of Mark, showing how the Gospel of Mark actually was a liturgical play, which was the reproduction of the assassination and burial - or actually the cremation - of Jesus Christ... um, oops, Julius Caesar!
Joe: Well they're one and the same person so...
Laura: They're one and the same, I'm telling you it's just getting hard to keep them straight anymore. But there's enough evidence coming from Carotta, from Courtney, from Atwill, and then my own really definitive historical research that I was doing that led me to this idea completely independently of all of them, without any of their particular perspectives! So I think that when I bring all of these perspectives together and the input from all of the data that has been collected, I think it's going to be probably - I mean, it's so convincing. I feel like my 40 year search for Jesus, it's over. I'm done.
It's like the most mind blowing thing, I mean you spend 40 freaking years of your life trying to figure out if this guy was ever real, and if he was real, what did he do that was so astonishing that people remembered him for 2,000 years? Well Julius Caesar is definitely the man who is worth remembering for 2,000 years. And he has been remembered, in a certain way.
But in the wrong way. And I think Julius Caesar needs to be restored because he is, as far as I can see in all of my historical research, the greatest human being who ever lived.
Joe: So that was the second one.
Laura: That was the second one. Am I supposed to have three?
Joe: I don't know, it's up to you.
Laura: Mind blowing?
Joe: Yeah, blew your socks off. Or at least one sock.
Laura: Blew my socks off? Meeting my husband.
Joe: Okay, that's fair enough.
Niall: And not necessarily in that order! [Laughter]
Joe: There's a couple of questions related to that, I'll just throw one in about Mithraism. Is it possible that there might be a connection between the philosophy of alchemy, in terms of building a soul, and that of Mithraism?
Laura: Um, I would say that it's quite possible, because I think alchemy itself probably is about building a soul, and I think that - of course, nobody really knows what the Mithraic people were really doing. There's some new research... I mean, Beck, who is considered to be the expert on Mithraism, has recently written a paper where he proposes that Mithraism was consciously and deliberately created out of whole cloth, more or less, in and around Rome.
And so whatever they were doing, I think that they were trying to create a system that would bring people together, make them a support network. And I don't know whether it was subversive against the government, because it was mostly soldiers; mostly soldiers and traders, and people who travelled around in the empire into trading zones, or into the provinces. But there was a concentration around Rome.
Joe: There was a spiritual aspect to it as well wasn't there?
Laura: There was a spiritual aspect to it, but I'm not sure that - I think some of the spiritual aspects kind of were added on later, because they started out with some real interesting iconography, their Tauroctony, their scenario of the killing of the bull. And I even wonder if there's not something of a takeoff on the assassination of Julius Caesar in there.
When I get to that point I'm going to start really pulling on those threads in a serious way, and then I'll probably be able to give you a better answer about that. I mean I just stopped even worrying about Mithraism when I started reading about Caesar. I'll come back to Mithraism, I will answer it, yeah.
Joe: The Caesar thing really did blow... it blew my socks off, and some other undergarments.
Laura: Haha!
Joe: Because it's not just about history being revised, you know. It's because of the place that Christianity has taken, and Jesus. I mean even if you're not a believer, most people in the Western world - which is several, a few billion people let's say - are brought up with that idea. Even if they're not practicing Christians, they're brought up with that idea of Jesus and Heaven/Hell, and all that kind of stuff. And just to have the rug pulled out from under it in such a profound way by just removing the central figure in Christianity, and showing that it was most likely another actual historical figure - Julius Caesar - who had nothing to do with what Christianity teaches, in a certain sense...
Laura: Well, actually, he did! He had a great deal... I mean, the idea of clemency, of forgiveness - that was Caesar's.
Joe: Yeah. Well, the subversion of it, in terms of...
Laura: Feeding the poor, that was Caesar.
Joe: But the spiritual aspect of it in terms of the airy-fairy spirituality that traps so many people.
Laura: Oh, well yeah. All that's a load of garbage, and I think the same kinds of loads of garbage got added onto a lot of things. But it began with... there was a man who really existed, and he wasn't a namby-pamby guy because he won every battle he ever fought, nearly always against unbelievable odds. He was all about taking care of the poor, restoring the republic. There's just so many things: justice, clemency, honor, piety, self-respect...
Joe: That's a religion right there - that's enough.
Laura: Oh it was just fabulous.
Joe: I mean if that could have been turned into a practical religion, because those ideas are spiritual ideas, essentially - at this level, they're all people need, you know? I mean, maybe you could get into theorizing after that, but in terms of having a decent life on planet Earth and the ideas of the Ten Commandments, what Caesar preached essentially, or what he espoused, is...
Laura: What he lived.
Joe: Yeah, that's more than enough. But it's been turned into this monster.
Laura: Well that's what I think the Flavians did. That's where Atwill's piece of the puzzle comes in. The Flavians deliberately, consciously - well, the cover-up or the marginalizing of Julius Caesar actually began with Augustus. Augustus needed Julius Caesar very much in the beginning, because the army, the whole Roman army - except for a few legions that belonged to Pompeius - were all loyal to Caesar, and he needed that army to back his takeover, his bid for power.
So he needed to be, you know, 'Divus Filius', son of the god. And of course it was really just a fluke, that there was this fabulous, amazing comet that appeared in the sky, and it was probably one of the greatest comets of that period of time, right during the funeral games for Julius Caesar. So Julius Caesar was divinized. I mean, 'there is Caesar in the sky!'
Niall: He is risen.
Laura: He is risen! He is risen, and there he is. And he's not dead, he can intercede for us, we can pray to him, and we can follow his example. And it was the soldiers. The soldiers, the Roman army, they took this all over the empire, all the places where they were settled, and colonies like in Bithynia, and Galilee, there was a whole bunch of Caesar's soldiers that were settled in Galilee. They also settled around Narbonne in southern France, and in various other places. So they were doing this, and they all worshipped Caesar, and they recited his liturgy on the anniversary of his death, which was the 15th of March, every year. So this was going on.
And then, because it was a soldiers' thing, people also got the idea that a human being can stand up to evil dominators. Caesar set the example. So this is what the Jews were doing, because the Jews particularly loved Caesar, because he was very, very fair to them, and he was thankful to them for helping him when he was in Egypt.
Joe: You can kind of imagine that today, given the state of the world and the extent to which anti-human and inhuman ideas have propagated around the world and our global society, you can imagine today that if someone came along, somehow rose to power, and basically just spread the opposite of what is prevalent today - humane ideals, basically - like Caesar did, then they would be worshipped, you know? If they were able to kind of turn our world today around.
So it's almost like when it gets so bad, where almost all real, decent humanity or human ideals have been removed from common discourse, and from people's psyches, that people, if someone came along to restore that, they would be held up as a saviour, because they certainly are saving people from...
Laura: There were statues in the Eastern part of the empire where Caesar was - these have been found archaeologically, the bases of the statues, the actual statues have probably been destroyed long since. But the engraving, or the carving in the bottom of the statues said, "Julius Caesar, saviour of the world". And this was all over the empire, the idea of Julius Caesar as a saviour of the world, and the fact that people did worship him, that he did become a god. And so Augustus promoted this for a period of time because he needed to be the son of the god, because that strengthened his position.
But after he'd been in power for a certain number of years and things had calmed down, then he needed more the support of the old oligarchs, the ones that survived, to help him begin to govern the empire, to create a bureaucracy and that sort of thing. So he had to kind of start marginalizing Caesar, because Caesar had been in complete opposition to this whole oligarchy.
So he began the process, and it proceeded, and by the time the Flavians came along about a hundred years later, they just kind of finished the job - them and Josephus - and they just rewrote things, and it was probably easy to do by that time, because by that time the copies of the liturgy - which is probably what the Book of Mark began as, a liturgy of the death and resurrection of Julius Caesar - had lost some things. And I think they deliberately got hold of copies of texts and wrote his battles out of the texts, and inserted his so-called healing miracles.
Because, let's face it, you're talking about a barefoot dude, in a little rinky-dink country on the edge of the Mediterranean, and the only thing he did was go around and heal a few people, and then he got crucified, and this is supposed to be the most astonishing thing! Oh, and forget the resurrection part because it didn't freaking happen!
He didn't resurrect, that is not what happened that made everybody big believers. Just erase that from your mind because it didn't happen. So if you've removed that, the only thing you have left is some guy that went around and healed a few people, and there were so many other holy men and ecstatic-type preachers in that world that were doing equivalent things, that this was nothing special. This was nothing special to create a world religion.
However, what Julius Caesar did, what he did and what he was, was more than enough to make him a superman. I mean a man that...[Sigh] I just wish everybody would start reading everything they can get their hands on. And the wonderful thing is, even though we've lost most of his writings, there is still a text written by the man himself, that exists, his Commentaries on the Gallic Wars, and the African - well, he didn't write the African Wars... but anyway, his commentaries on the Gallic Wars.
Did you know Caesar invented the book and the newspaper? Most people don't. He invented the book. And Christians were always known as 'the people of the book'. And everybody else, all of the Roman oligarchy, they were very irritated by this, because, you know, why couldn't Caesar use a scroll like everybody else did? And he just found it was far more interesting, and far more useful and convenient to have pages bound together at the edge that he could flip, and just continue reading and writing.
Because he was always on the march. He was always marching around. I mean come on! The guy did not have epilepsy, he wasn't a crazy guy, he was on the march in the sun, in the cold. He did incredible things, he did miraculous things - and he scared the hell out of Cicero because he was so uncannily fast. He could get from Rome to somewhere up in the centre of Gaul faster than the messenger who was sent to announce his coming! The man travelled like a mad man, and he could dictate to four or five secretaries simultaneously, while he was travelling. The man was amazing!
Joe: At least half of the books that you've published are a series of books called 'The Wave' series. They all have different titles, but they're all on the same theme.
Laura: Yeah, that's my experiences in the new age world of alternative religions, beliefs, and so on and so forth.
Joe: Mm hm. And they're very interesting, essential reading really. But what is the Wave? Why is it called The Wave?
Laura: Well it started out... I had all this material from the Cassiopaean experiment and they kept talking about this wave that was going to change our reality. And you know, it's kind of like a mysterious thing, and this started back in 1994, you know... So I had it in my mind that I was going to go through these transcripts - because we kept asking different questions, changing the subjects, and with different people in the sessions, you couldn't stay on a subject.
So all of these references to the Wave were scattered throughout, you know, a thousand pages of text. So I was going to get them all out, write a little bit about the context, and put them all together. I figured it would make eight or nine, or ten web pages, and they would just be like a little mini book, and probably if it was published in book form it wouldn't be more than a hundred pages, right?
And so I started and put the first one up, and then I started getting emails from people asking me questions, well what about this? What about that? And so it just kind of went from there, and at the time I was also still working my way through some of these issues myself, trying to analyze them. So they were asking me questions about things, and so I began to analyze them, and collect together the excerpts from the various books that I had read on these various topics, to give them insight.
You know I have kind of a unique collection of books, and I realized not everybody was lucky enough to have the collection of books I had, so I would go through it, transcribe out sections of the books that referred to their questions, and posted it in the Wave series. And it just grew, and grew, and grew, and I mean it was just like the darndest thing I've ever seen, because - I don't know what happened there.
You know, people will notice, or on the old website they'd notice that I was numbering them alphabetically. The Wave (a). Okay, that was supposed to be The Wave (a), that's supposed to be one page. But then somebody would write me a question on the same topic, and I would have to add some addenda, so then there was The Wave (a.1), and then Wave (a.2), Wave (a.3), and then finally I could get to my next topic that was planned, and that became Wave (b).
Then somebody would send a question and I'd have to answer, so (b.1, b.2), and so on. So I very rarely stuck to my plan of naming these files according to a nice simple "a, b ,c, d, e ,f, g" alphabetical system. I think I've got, like, The Wave (j.12) [Laughter] It was just... It was crazy!
And it's about all kinds of esoteric experiences and what reality really is, and I shared experiences from hypnosis sessions that I'd done with people, and basically shared the experience that I had of being initiated directly by what could only be described as 'a higher density source'. I was being led through experiences in my life, and some of them were fairly phenomenal, while some of them were downright paranormal, let's face it.
But, you know, I just put it together, and that's what The Wave is. Exposing this other reality, showing how it's real.
Showing how what we get taught with the so-called esotericists, the so-called mainstream religions, the new age things, that they're all just variations on the same theme, and why and how they fall apart when you start really examining them, and what is really there when you pull the curtain back; what is the man behind the curtain. Who is he? What is he? And what is he doing?
Joe: Mm hm. And you mentioned the Cassiopaeans. Has your understanding - I know, people probably know how they describe themselves, what they are - has your understanding of what that is evolved over the years of the kind of communication, if you want to call it that?
Laura: Well let me just say, when I read the earlier sessions, you know, I absolutely blush with embarrassment at my own ignorance and naiveté. I wasn't using my head, but at the same time I had to think about the fact that I really had done all the reading that you're supposed to do, to try to answer these questions. I mean I'd been peeling through a book a day for years and years and years. I'd been studying; I'd been trying experiments with different things, and so on.
And I still was at that point where I was still buying into a lot of really erroneous beliefs that were illogical, but I couldn't quite see past the illogicality of them. I couldn't - there were like these little missing lynch pins, and that missing lynch pin was about the densities, rather than dimensions, of reality. And about the nature of reality, and the unlimited nature of the Universe, and the openness of it, and things that many esotericists don't like to acknowledge.
Like, we had a conversation here this past fall with some people who were visiting, and they were talking about, well "such and such happened in so-and-so's life because they got together before they incarnated, and they agreed to do this, and this was a check out point", and so on and so forth.
And I said wait a minute, what you're saying presupposes that things are predetermined, and I don't think it's quite that way, you know. I think that information, and the acquisition of information, and making choices based on that information can completely move you from one reality to another. Completely.
And all of those things about planning and predestination just fly completely out the window. If you acquire some information and it causes you to make a change, you freakin' have changed your reality!! You may still have overlaps with your old reality, but you've changed your reality. And you do create your reality, but you don't create your reality by thinking nice thoughts and, you know, wishing things were so. You change it by the acquisition, accumulation of information, and making definitive choices based on that information that move you along a different timeline.
And if you choose to move along the timeline of ignorance, of ignoring what's going on in your reality, then bear the consequences.
Joe: It's almost like all humans share the same reality, but people can set themselves on kind of like 'paths' towards a future that may be different from everybody else's, or different from each other.
Laura: I've got two videos I made that - I think that we didn't make them public, did we? I talked about this particular process, but I think we're going to make them public, because in the videos I used some little visual aids to help people understand how creating your own reality actually does work. It does happen, we do create our reality, but it has nothing to do with the way it's generally taught. And it includes the acquisition of the most accurate and real information you can possibly acquire, the most truth you can pile up in your body, or in your psyche, and then taking appropriate actions based on that information.
So maybe we'll put the links to those two videos up with the transcript of this show or something, so people can watch them, because it's much better if you watch the videos than me try to explain on the radio.
Niall: Well that answers a question I was going to ask, kind of on behalf of a lot of people who come to our websites, and invariably it comes down to: "Okay, I see what's wrong with the world, but what can I do about it?"
Laura: Yeah that's what these videos are about. These videos tell you in pretty precise terms how it works and what you can actually do. Of course, I mean it's told in such a way that you apply it to your own life and your own circumstances, your own situation, because I'm not giving a specific situation and a specific formula. But each person's - I'm just basically, in these videos, teaching you the principles, because there are principles, and I've applied them in my life, and many other people have applied them in their lives, they work!
I mean they really, really do work, but it all depends on information, because information is probably the most important thing about our reality that you will ever encounter, and information is Truth. You really have to have Truth, because if you start loading yourself up with lies or feel-good things, just like we said at the beginning, disaster is going to ensue.
Juliana: That kind of ties up with the idea that you can't just accumulate, you know. There's many people who read, probably as much as you do, but one of the things that characterizes you is the drive to actually share it and apply it, and do something for people, you know?
Laura: Well that comes from my Christian background again. Book of James, faith versus works. 'Show me your faith, I'll show you my works'!
Juliana: Let me ask you a question that we actually got from a reader on Red Pill Press last week, and it kind of ties up with what you were describing about how your views changed from the beginning of the Cassiopaean experiment to now. He asked, "Why did Laura stop writing about aliens, [Angry tone] and instead started talking about history and science? Did she get threatened, or is she hiding more knowledge from us?"
[Laughter]
Niall: You're hiding the truth about aliens!
Laura: I am trying to collect together the most essential truths about our world and our reality, because if you do not know your history, you do not know how you got where you are, how things got to be the way they are, and where they are likely to go, because history repeats itself. And if you do not know the truth about it, you do not know where you are on the historical cycle, you don't know what's going to happen next, you are then incapable of making intelligent choices to change your freakin' reality!
We are on a reality where 90% of the world live in ignorance, and this reality is going to have a massive infusion of information, probably in the form of some kind of unpleasant event, because, you know, one of the rules of physics is, the more unlikely an event, the more information it carries. So we're going to have some serious 'unlikely' events in this reality.
I would like to transition myself into a different reality that doesn't experience the outcome that is going to happen here, because what happens is that the Universe looks at this planet, it sees what it's doing, it sees what's happening, it sees the terrible inaction, the silence of people against the pathology that is in power, that's destroying the planet, destroying the life, destroying other people, destroying freedom, human rights, all of those things. And it will correct, it will correct.
And if you're on this planet, and you're part of that reality when it happens, you know... sayonara, hasta la vista baby!
Joe: Do you think there's some causality involved there in terms of...
Laura: Absolutely!
Joe: But is it not possible that, by way of some mysterious mechanism, that the two simply happen around the same time throughout history, that human life on Earth just goes through this cycle where, because of human nature and psychopaths etc...
Laura: Well I kind of addressed that at the end of my last book, Comets and the Horns of Moses, because, I'm still trying to bring that out in this next volume, to show how it is the behaviour of humanity en mass that attracts. Because when you have a bunch of people who believe lies, there is a lack of order, there is a lack of information. And when there is insufficient information to maintain order, the organising principle, where things happen decently and there's not death and destruction and pain and suffering, the cosmos appears quite regularly to react against that. And that's one thing that is absolutely clear in my historical research.
So for this poor guy who's wondering about aliens, you better listen up buddy, because you need to know your history, and you need to know as much of it as you can possibly accumulate in your body, because then that will give you the essential, crucial knowledge of where you are now, what is happening around you now, and what's freakin' going to happen next. And if you don't like it, you need to make some decisions and choices, and do something to move yourself out of the reality that you don't like.
It's not a question of 'wishing a new reality' or a saviour to come and create a new reality for you. It's a question of you knowing how to move out of the one you don't like! Because you can't argue with 90% of the population that likes this reality the way it is! How the heck... People keep talking about, "oh we're going to have World Meditation Day, we're going to have World Peace Day, we're all going to meditate on peace"...
Well, okay, so you take 2,000 people... Do you think a million people meditating on 'World Harmonic Convergence Day' to bring world peace - and there is 90% of the population on the entire globe - which is some 7 billion people, versus one million people - who want it this way, and you got this other...
Joe: 99 plus percent.
Laura: ...This other 6.9 billion people that believe the pathological leaders, and want to follow them, and want the world to stay the way it is, and you actually think you can turn that Titanic around? Are you nuts?!?
Joe: Right, but just based on what has been said in the Cassiopaean sessions, is it simply people making those choices themselves that can change their reality, or is there some mechanism, like we were talking about...'the wave'?
Laura: There has to be a network. People have to be networked together, they have to be collinear, they have to be moving in the same direction, they have to understand things in the same way, or else there is not enough weight to the information they accumulate, and enough collection of this energy that can cause them to move to another reality, to create another reality. It takes a network!
Joe: But is there a macrocosmic force that facilitates some kind of a movement to a new reality?
Laura: That is probably the 'Wave'. Because there are things happening, there are things that we notice in our cosmos, our solar system, we notice, you know, our sun is going quiet, there has been 'global warming' on all the planets in the solar system, and I don't think we've been producing carbon monoxide, or dioxide, emissions on Mars, Venus, Jupiter or Saturn. They've all been accumulating extra moons and so forth.
There's something really big going on in the cosmos, and there's something happening, there is something coming, there is something going to happen. And at that moment, if there is a network, if there is a sufficient number of people who See things the same way - and we're not talking about some kind of 'overlord group mind' here; we're talking about people who See and perceive Truth. Because Truth is Truth, is Truth! I mean, it's not 'your truth, my truth, his truth, her truth'... that's that freakin' feel-good shit. Get over it! There is Truth, there is reality!
Juliana: How do you envision that transition? You know, you talk about third density and fourth, the possibility of transitioning into fourth density when the wave supposedly comes.
Laura: I think that when you start to accumulate certain information, you already begin your own transition. And some of the information involves dietary changes that actually change the DNA of your body, and make your body more receptive to that energy, so that you're actually better able to transform.
Let me tell you one thing; the lining of your stomach replaces itself something like every eight hours. That's because it hosts a lot of activity that is very destructive to tissues. But what that tells you is that there is a mechanism that can speed up the production, the building, of cellular tissues. You know, other parts of your body, there are other parts where the entire organ gets replaced every twenty-four hours, like parts of your pancreas. Other parts that replace more rapidly, bones every so many years... and this and that and the other thing....
Okay, there is something like 2% of our DNA is what they say builds our bodies. Okay, what if some of that DNA could instruct our bodies to transform in a way that I'm talking about, where they literally, when that DNA gets turned on, it transforms you completely. And all you're waiting for is a certain bit of cosmic energy, and you have to be receptive to that cosmic energy.
What if it's a virus that comes from space that causes the DNA to do that? What if a virus comes and all the people who are receptive, because they have the information and the information has caused them to make decisions, like changing their diet and living a certain way, and thinking a certain way, and doing certain things, so this virus comes along and it gets in you.
Well, what about the ninety-some percent who didn't accumulate the information and make the choices and decisions to move into another potentiated reality? Okay, so what's going to happen? The people who have it, the receptor, the receivership capability, they transform. The other people: Black Death, eighty percent mortality rate.
Juliana: And they might not even realise, right?
Laura: And they might not even realise. That's how a transformation could happen, because you can bet that when a transformation occurs, it's going to happen in ways that seem natural and follow the ordinary laws of our reality. You're not going to have some big, you know, flash of light...
Niall: Rapture.
Laura: And get raptured to the skies, or suddenly wake up and 'you don't have to eat anymore, and blah, blah, blah'. It's going to be transformative, certainly, and there's going to be transformations in your body, but they're going to happen according to the laws of the physical universe to some extent. Because we're living in a reality where we fit, and if we move into another reality, a semi-physical one, there's still going to be a connection to this physical one.
In the same way that we, as third density beings, have a connection to our second density creatures, and we have interactions with our first density rocks and things like that. We all interact together with these multiple densities, and by the same token these aliens, or paranormal beings, or whatever they are, interact with us.
And we only see flashes of them, you know, they appear as UFOs, they come and go. Men in black, abductions, 'lah di da di da'. And we cannot hold contact with them because they can't stay in our hard, physical reality, because it's too congealed for them to stay in it very long, and we can't move into theirs unless they take us under special circumstances.
So we're at this transition point. We need to make choices and decisions to enhance our receivership capability, and we need to make decisions to be networked together, to get rid of our sacred cows, to get ourselves squared away online, you know, in a collinear relationship, find out what the truth really is, and get ourselves sorted out, because that's what's going to do it.
Joe: We may have a call here, so... Hi caller, what's your name and where you calling from?
Jonathan: Hi, this is Jonathan from Michigan.
Joe: Hi Jonathan, welcome to the show.
Niall: Welcome.
Jonathan: Hi, thanks. I had a question along the lines of utilizing information, what you were talking about, in conjunction with physical laws. Some time ago there was a lot of discussion on the Cassiopaea forum about spinning in relation to the Gurdjieff dances, and I wonder if you could speak to the practicality or impracticality of doing those kinds of exercises.
Laura: I think they're probably pretty useful for somebody who has a very strong moving centre. You know, I personally have vertigo, so I don't do any spinning, as you might imagine! In fact I try to avoid even tilting my head back to look up at the top tall bookcase. [Laughs] But yeah, I think they're very useful, and the dances particularly.
We had a discussion about dances though. Now, we do try some of the dances, and we have gotten together and done some of those Sufi dances, you know, where you link arms, and you go around in the circle, and you chant, you have the drums going on, and you're doing it around a fire and everything. That is really cool, and is really powerful, very powerful. I love it. I think it may do something for your DNA too.
Jonathan: That's, I guess, specifically what I was curious about. You were talking about the diet changing DNA on a certain level, so if that was done in conjunction with some other physical exercises along these lines, if there's a magnified effect, or some sort of a different effect. Not very much is known about the details of it.
Laura: Yeah I think that - we're all into a whole lot of experimental stuff, because once you throw out just about everything that's out there, and you start picking piece-by-piece through everything and trying to find what is real, what isn't real, then you start having to recreate things experimentally, kind of scientifically.
And I think we're doing that a little bit better than anybody else has ever done, because they'll talk to some dead dude who 'delivers the word of god', and they buy it hook, line, and sinker. We're not about that. We're about experimenting. Okay, so the Cs say something... So what? Let's experiment, let's find out, let's do some research. And we've found some pretty remarkable things, you know, things about diet, things about dancing, movement, things about exercise along with diet.
Juliana: Breathing.
Laura: Breathing, very important, stimulating the vagus nerve. Just so many great things, and so many people are being... You know, every day I get emails, and I'm not the one who always answers them, I do once in a while, but these guys read them. And all these people, they write and they say, "I read The Wave, it changed my life", "I read The Wave, it changed my life". People saying, "I started the diet..."
We've got people on the forum, which you probably read about, who started the diet and have been relieved of an enormous number and variety of really unpleasant symptoms or problems, and people are getting better. It can take a few years for a dietary change to kick in, you know, for your body to replace itself. Because what I was just talking about, the DNA, we don't have that thing turned on that makes our whole body replace itself in 24 hours, but, you know, you go about this in a dedicated way, your body will change in a couple of years.
Now, what about the people who haven't started, who aren't doing anything at all? I mean, they're going to be in the lurch, I'm telling you.
Jonathan: Well, I agree. Thank you very much for your time, I appreciate the response, and I'll take it off the air.
Juliana: Thank you.
Joe: Thanks for the call.
Laura: Thank you for calling sweetie, bye-bye.
Joe: Okay we're going to go to another one. Hi caller, what's your name and where are you calling from?
Gary: Hi, this is Gary, I'm calling from Tuscon, Arizona.
All: Hi Gary.
Joe: Welcome to the show.
Gary: Hi. So I was wondering, in your 'Course on Knowledge and Being' you talk about how, through your working with hypnotism, you've found these entities attached to people.
Laura: Mm hm.
Gary: And so, is there some conscious level, perhaps, kind of like an exercise that someone can do to un-attach those entities to your person?
Laura: Did you watch the entire set, as far as they have been posted? I don't think - are you a member of the forum?
Gary: No, I'm not.
Laura: Okay, well there are two additional videos that I mentioned a while ago that I'm going to make public. Up until now they've been private for just our forum members, but I'm going to make them public, and I really go a lot deeper into many things about that in these other videos, yes. So yeah there are some things you can do.
Diet helps, and certain exercises, and basically finding out what 'it' doesn't like is kind of the thing, because you know, like I talked about, the guy who had the attachment that wanted to drink alcohol and read the sports page. Well if you realize that this is probably not you that really wants to do this, you just make the commitment to stop drinking alcohol, stop reading the sports page, and maybe it'll go away.
There's more to it than that, and I talk about it in these other videos, and I've got a final one in that series that I'm going to do very soon, and get it up as well. And I'm going to go into some of these things more deeply.
Joe: So, they'll be on the Cassiopaea YouTube channel, just for reference.
Gary: Mm hm. Well, what if my particular entity actually wants me to not drink? Because I've always had a lifelong aversion to drinking, so do I need to go on a drinking binge?
[Laughter]
Laura: No, just keep that lifelong aversion, because alcohol is not good for you anyway, but not for any kind of 'holiness' reasons, but simply for physiological reasons. It's really detrimental to your body. So if you have an aversion to it, I'd say that's a good thing, stick with it. You can keep that one.
Gary: Alright. Well, thanks for your time!
Laura: Thank you.
Niall: Thanks Gary, bye.
Juliana: Bye.
Joe: Well, we have a few more questions from the chat room, shall we just go through them quickly and you can give one word answers? Yes or no?
Laura: Ugh, see if you can do that!
Joe: Based on your knowledge and experience, what would be your prediction regarding the possible events that may happen in the future of humanity for this year?
Laura: For this year? I think we've got a good chance for one or more Chelyabinsk-type events. I think we have a really good chance for way more serious weather problems, and I think we may have a very slow start to summer, if we have a summer at all. Usually when things like this start happening, then the pathocrats start getting real antsy, to try to keep their position, so there could be another false flag just to give a reason for absolute imposition of martial law. I think this year's going to be really interesting, and probably getting so around June/July.
You know, that's about as precise as I would want to be, because a lot of things depend on choices. You get the information - and it's what I talked about in one of my videos, you know? I give you the information, or I talk about something, and that's giving you information. Then you change, and take protective or defensive actions, or other people change and take defensive actions, and then that kind of changes the reality a little bit. So, let's see what happens. Those are some good possibilities.
Joe: There's a question that's related to that, and it relates to something that's in the Cassiopaean sessions from 2009, where they said that it was five years away...
Laura: 2014, yeah, 'Year Zero'. And they were kind of joyful about it, if I remember correctly. But, you know, when the Cs are joyful about something, it doesn't always mean that humanity's going to be happy about it.
Juliana: Yeah, "learning is fun"!
Laura: Yeah, right!
Joe: So what kind of probability would you put to that prediction that they made.
Laura: I'd say that based on keeping your eye on the sky, so to speak, and your attention on reality, their prediction is probably pretty good. 2014 is going to be real interesting.
Joe: New Year Zero, it sounds a bit ominous.
Laura: Yeah, and Year Zero could be the beginning of complete totalitarian rule which then brings on cometary destruction, or it could be the cometary destruction that brings all the mess that we've been going through up to now to an end, we don't know. We have to wait and see on that, and we just have to keep our eyes on the reality, and that's kind of what we do on SOTT - we're constantly scoping.
Because we keep thinking that, at some point, there's going to be an event somewhere on the planet that's going to give a signal to us, that's going to tell us what's up next, what's going to happen. And we know that we won't get much warning in advance, but we keep scoping and scanning.
We're news junkies because, you know, we want to know what's going on in the entire global reality as best we can, because that's the information that we need to be able to make choices. And when you see something coming, that's when you make a choice, and that's when you take action, you know? Faith without works is dead.
Joe: I'd like to ask Laura if she thinks enough individuals doing 'The Work' and developing an STO FRV is what is necessary to anchor the 4D wave?
Laura: Well I don't know if it's actually possible to generate an 'STO FRV' - that is 'Service to Others, Frequency Resonance Vibration'. But I think that if we do the best we can, which is going forward for truth, and making choices based, to the best of our ability, on serving others, I think that we'll be in the receivership position, so that we could actually move into a different reality.
But yeah, I think that doing that is very, very important; extremely important.
Joe: The idea of anchoring the Wave is, maybe it's misunderstood in the sense that, if this theorized Wave happens anyway, then anchoring it is simply a function of what you were talking about previously...
Laura: Well there's another thing about it... I mean, things are going to happen, and they're going to happen depending on who and what you are; who you are and what you See. And if you are part of a network, and if you are somebody who seeks the truth even if it hurts, and if you are connected to others who do that, and if you take action on the information that you have shared with those others, then the most important thing is making choices.
And this is what these two videos that I made recently are about, precisely. So I hope that everybody will watch them and get some more clues, and remember I'm going to be making another one too and, if more questions come along, then this will probably turn into 'The Wave Videos'! You know, there'll be video (a), or (j.13)!
[Laughter]
Joe: Maybe just a final one, because the others have really been answered already. Besides the Eiriu Eolas breathing and meditation program, what thoughts or feelings ground you when you are wrought with stress?
Laura: Wrought with stress? You know what?... My family, my extended family, my dogs, the cat even - I'm not a cat person so much, but the cat even. And sitting down to breakfast with my family is probably one of the highlights of my day. I'm easily amused. And if we get really down, we may get out an old Miss Marple movie or some kind of thing, we sit down and watch it together. Or sometimes we sing. But just being with my family and appreciating their smiles, their eyes, their voices, their compassion. That is what keeps me grounded, that is what de-stresses me, and I don't think there's anything better, and I just wish that other people had the good fortune that I have with my wonderful family.
Joe: Okay, well I think we've taxed Laura enough, we've picked her brains enough for tonight, and we've reached our two hour limit anyway, unless you want to continue for another.
Laura: I think that my voice is about to go.
Joe: Ok. Well, it's been really good.
Niall: Thank you very much.
Joe: Yeah, I think we've dealt with a lot of topics in a very short period of time, relatively speaking. Of course people can explore these topics in much greater detail via Laura's books, and once again there are three books that are on special offer on SOTT.net right now, three kindle books of Laura's, so check those out.
Laura: I would advise you to get hard copies, because I have the feeling that some things are going to happen that are going to wipe out electronics.
Joe: Oh yeah?
Laura: It's possible, you know.
Joe: An overhead cometary EMP?
Laura: Well I don't know, but I'm converting a lot of my digital files to hard copy printing and putting them in files, you know. It's one of those choices that I'm making based on information. I want to have access to things.
Juliana: And you plan on publishing, maybe two more books this year?
Laura: Well I don't know if I'm going to get - I'm working on... Oh jeez. Yeah, I'm hoping for two this year. I'm really working, and if everybody can just kind of pull together and give me some room for it, I will get it done, and then you will have a whole lot of answers about a whole lot of things.
Joe: The good lord willing....
Laura: ...and the creek don't rise!
Joe: Which it already is, so... Watch this space! Don't count your chickens!... Okay folks, thanks for listening, thanks to our callers, thanks to our chatterers, and thanks to Laura especially. We will be back next week with an interview with Patrick Rodriguez.
Niall: Yes, we'll be talking about Spirit Release Therapy.
Joe: Yes. So, check that one out. Until then...
Laura: Goodnight!
Joe: Goodnight all. Have a good one
Juliana: Good night.
Niall: Bye-bye.
Also, you talk about knowledge as being key and "protection", yet, are you certain as to what the Cs mean when they speak of "knowledge"? Perhaps they are referring to inner knowledge that we all contain and aught to tune in to, not necessarily information collected and collated from outside of ourselves.
Another question - you talk about objectivity, yet, how can objectivity be obtained when you are channelling "yourself, in the future"? If this is the case then it is surely mighty difficult to take anything the Cs discuss as objective.
I am surprised that these seemingly to me obvious points haven't been disgusted as they have come up regularly in my mind as a manner of querying the source and content of the transcripts in objective light.
Further to this, if you were perhaps another person - another type of person, they might guide/instruct you on quite different methods. For example, they may instruct you to develop - say - emotional purity and inner light through chanting (using something random here just for example).
Just some things that I've always wanted to question about and put out there.