Gaza: "We have nothing left to lose."
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Silvia Cattori interviews an ordinary Palestinian
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Silvia Cattori: Right from the start, after the capture of an Israeli corporal on June 25, 2006, halls of power have been putting pressure on your authorities. On your side, during the previous two weeks, you have suffered the deaths of more than 50 people, at least 200 wounded, and hundreds of arrests. Among the dead, wounded and those arrested are a number of children. It is significant to note that when the victims are Palestinians, there is no pressure put on Israel!
M.M.: Yes. All of that is revolting. The Palestinians have no weight compared with the Israelis. All the Western media and states treat humans in an unequal way. They don't put any pressure on Israel when it is a question of innocent Palestinians; but for an Israeli soldier who is making war against us, they all put pressure on our authorities. When a single Israeli soldier is captured, the whole world gets interested. When the Israeli army captures and kills thousands of Palestinian civilians, there is no reaction. The Arab countries are the same, which is even more worthy of condemnation. They mobilize to free an Israeli soldier while in Gaza a million and one-half Palestinians live imprisoned and suffer atrociously. Egypt even sent their head of the secret service, Omar Souleman, to obtain the liberation of the corporal.
S.C.: "We'll give you back your corporal, you give us back our prisoners held in Israel" chanted the families of those held after the capture. Israel immediately responded that there was no question of such an exchange. Did the families ask for too much?
M.M.: They didn't ask for a lot! Only the liberation of the women and young prisoners under 18 years old. The liberation of 1,000 prisoners of the 10,000 held by Israel.
S.C.: The secret service Shabak responds to those who criticize them in Israel for not having stopped this operation at the Kerem Shalon passage that they were aware that the tunnel was being dug. Why didn't they stop it?
M.M.: I think that they didn't know about it, and, above all, that they didn't know that the Palestinians had such a strong will to resist. They possess a panoply of technological systems and quantities of sensors to detect tunnels. If they had been aware of it, they would have destroyed it while it was being constructed. We can say that, by their heroic exploit, the men of the Palestinian resistance have destroyed the myth of this Israeli army that never loses a war. The resistance has demonstrated that that the services of the Shabak can be beaten, that Israel can construct all the walls they want, but they won't push back the Palestinians.
S.C.: What does the code name of the resistance for this operation, "Dissipated Illusion", mean?
M.M.: It means that the illusions of the superiority of the Israelis have been wiped away, that the Israelis can lose a war if we act in a consistent way. It indicates to our Arab neighbours that, if they unite to form a movement, the Israeli army can be beaten by simple actions. It also means that the people of Fatah and others who have spread the illusion that peace comes through negotiation and concessions, when Israel will concede nothing, that this path has led us into a dead end.
S.C.: If the corporal isn't returned, you will have to confront an unprecedented military offensive!
M.M.: We have nothing left to lose.
S.C.: Israeli minister Ben Eliezer pointed the finger at Hamas bureau chief Khaled Mechaal who lives in Syria. The American ambassador said the solution lies in Damascus. Are they looking for a pretext to enlarge the conflict?
M.M.: Israel considers itself a military power. It wants to dominate the region. Its tactic has always been to widen the war towards its neighbours and to pull the US into its logic. Since 1967 Israel has talked about "Arab terrorists". It has arranged to never make peace with us and has pushed the US to intervene in Syria, in Iraq, in Iran. The scenario is well known. Israel and the US are waging an intense propaganda campaign to associate Khaled Mechaal, who lives in Damascus, with Syria, and to blame Syria for what is happening in Gaza to justify the next war against it. In Afghanistan, the US did the same thing: they started by trying to blackmail the Taliban by saying they weren't giving up Osama bin Laden, and then they went to war.
S.C.: After the capture of the Israeli soldier, Ehud Olmert declared that Israel was able to kidnap "half of the Palestinian government" of Hamas. Do you think they would dare?
M.M.: Maybe yes. They have sent in more tanks than normal. We are paralysed. But for us, this kind of threat is nothing new. We have been living under Israeli terror for a long time. Their presence is in our heads. How many of our leaders have been assassinated? We live under the constant threat of new massacres. Certainly, we worry that, at one moment or another, they will announce that a missile has hit Ismael Hanyieh, for example. We hope. We hope that the entente between us will be consolidated. As for Israel, there is nothing good to hope for. The Israeli authorities want to get rid of us. We know that we'll be forced to be at war with the Israelis until the end of the world. That nothing will stop their war of destruction against our people.
S.C.: Avy Pazner, one French radio, reproached you for having conducted a "kidnapping on sovereign Israeli soil".
M.M.: You can see for yourself the gall that they have! How can they present things this way and accuse us of penetrating into their territory? What the Israelis call their "sovereign soil" is nothing else than the land they stole from us and that they occupy since. They are the ones who go too far. We, Palestinians, even if we have to conduct operations in the centre of Tel Aviv, don't go too far.
S.C.: Israel has force on their side. They don't care about your claims. This incident of the capture will carry heavy consequences for you!
M.M.: For us, there is never a break. Even when we don't do anything, there are always there drones, their tanks and helicopters that threaten us, that spy on us, that attack us. We know that every action of the resistance increases the brutality of the Israeli soldiers against us. We know that this time, it will be even more terrifying than the last time. In spite of the fear that is very, very strong, the majority of the Palestinians do not want to give in, will not be intimidated. What people can allow itself to be humiliated without reacting? The mothers of the prisoners gathered in front of the Red Cross to demand that the resistance not release the soldier until Israel frees their imprisoned children, even if Israel wishes to cover Gaza with fire and blood.
S.C.: It is a very courageous position!
M.M.: We don't have any choice. The Israeli government was very clear that even if the soldier is released, those who participated, whether close to the operation or not, will be assassinated.
S.C.: You aren't worried that they will comb every house?
M.M.: Even if they wanted to, here in Gaza it is impossible. If not, they would have already done it. They are afraid to venture into our neighbourhoods.
S.C.: Will this new test permit you to overcome the quarrels between Fatah and Hamas?
M.M.: I thank God because now we feel solid, preoccupied to form a united front against Israel. We can hope that the formation of a national unity government is possible with Fatah's participation. This possibility puts us more at ease.
S.C.: You do not have a state. You are the prisoners of the occupier. Isn't it Israel that should be responsible for governing the territories they occupy? Don't you think that Hamas, as Fatah before, is in an impossible situation to govern? Shouldn't the people demand the dissolution of this authority that, in the present context, is absurd?
M.M.: The militants of Hamas presented themselves in the elections. They won. They took up their responsibilities in a blocked and extremely difficult situation. Their principal objective is to honestly help their people. They have sacrificed their whole lives to defend this cause. Asking them to resign will not improve the situation. Because then the corrupt and detested elements in Fatah will take back power in their hands. We are convinced that, if they return, they won't stop at arresting and torturing the militants of Hamas and Jihad as they have done in the past, but, this time, they will liquidate them. It is what Israel expects of them. It is why Israel recently supplied Abu Mazen and Mohammed Dahlan, (2) with arms and ammunition.
S.C.: After what you have just said, do you really believe a sincere union of Fatah with the Hamas government is possible?
M.M.: I belong neither to Hams nor to Fatah. I'm an ordinary citizen who has suffered, as have the majority of us, under the Fatah regime. For this reason, Hamas is considered by the Palestinians as a force that can serve as a blockade against the corrupt people in Fatah who are so eager to return to power. I hope that Hamas will manage to govern honestly and to persuade the people of Fatah to unite to respond to the expectations of the people. What I care about is that the two sides come to an agreement between them, that Fatah fully associates itself with this national unity to avoid civil war, which is exactly what Israel is trying to provoke by offering facilities to Fatah: divide the people to push them to kill each other. We must avoid at all costs this trap offered by Israel.
S.C.: Isn't it worrisome not to know where all this will lead? Are all the lights red at the moment?
M.M.: Our green light is national dialogue. If after a month of dealing, Abu Mazen signs the so-called document of "National Agreement" and works sincerely and fully with the Hamas government, there will be no more red lights for us. United, we can better resist the occupier.
(1) Given the circumstances, we respect the desire of M.M. to remain anonymous.
(2) Mohammed Dahlan is the former Minister of Civil Affairs. He maintains close links with the CIA. From a poor family, he gained his riches by ignoble means, notably by the construction of the so-called "deviation roads". These roads, ordered by Israel, serve to link the Israeli colonies and are forbidden to the Palestinians. Dahlan is a powerful element at the side of President Abu Mazen.
Interview recorded June 27, 2006
Translated by Signs of the Times: http://www.signs-of-the -times.org/
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