Herein
is the lecture by D.C.Hammond, originally entitled "Hypnosis
in MPD: Ritual Abuse," but now usually known as the
"Greenbaum Speech," delivered at the Fourth Annual Eastern
Regional Conference on Abuse and Multiple Personality,
Thursday June 25, 1992, at the Radisson Plaza Hotel,
Mark Center, Alexandria, Virginia.
Sponsored
by the Center for Abuse Recovery & Empowerment,
The Psychiatric Institute of Washington, D.C. Both a
tape and a transcript were at one time available from
Audio Transcripts of Alexandria, Virginia (800-338-2111).
Tapes and transcripts of other sessions from the conference
are still being sold but -- understandably -- not this
one. The transcript below was made from a privately
made tape of the original lecture.
The
single most remarklable thing about this speech is how
little one has heard of it in the two years since its
original delivery. It is recommended that one reads
far enough at least until one finds why it's called
"the Greenbaum speech."
In
the introduction the following background information
is given for D. Corydon Hammond:B.S. M.S. Ph.D (Counseling
Psychology) from the University of Utah,
- Diplomate in Clinical Hypnosis, the American Board
of Psychological Hypnosis,
- Diplomate in Sex Therapy, the American Board of Sexology,
- Clinical Supervisor and Board Examiner, American Board
of Sexology,
- Diplomate in Marital and Sex Therapy, American Board
of Family Psychology,
- Licensed Psychologist,
- Licensed Marital Therapist,
- Licensed Family Therapist, State of Utah,
- Research Associate Professor of Physical Medicine
and Rehabilitation, Utah School of Medicine,
- Director and Founder of the Sex and Marital Therapy
Clinic, University of Utah.
- Adjunct Associate Professor of Educational Psychology,
University of Utah Abstract
- Editor, The American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis
Advising Editor and Founding Member, Editorial Board,
The Ericsonian Monograph
- Referee, The Journal of Abnormal Psychology
- 1989 Presidential Award of Merit, American
Society of Clinical Hypnosis
- 1990 Urban Sector Award, American Society of Clinical
Hypnosis
- Current President, American Society of Clinical Hypnosis
THE
GREENBAUM SPEECH of D.C. HAMMOND
We've
got a lot to cover today and let me give you a rough
approximate outline of the the things that I'd like
us to get into. First, let me ask how many of you have
had at least one course or workshop on hypnosis? Can
I see the hands? Wonderful. That makes our job easier.
Okay.
I want to start off by talking a little about trance-training
and the use of hypnotic phenomena with an MPD dissociative-disorder
population, to talk some about unconscious exploration,
methods of doing that, the use of imagery and symbolic
imagery techniques for managing physical symptoms, input
overload, things like that. Before the day's out, I
want to spend some time talking about something I think
has been completely neglected in the field of dissociative
disorder, and that's talking about methods of profound
calming for automatic hyper-arousal that's been conditioned
in these patients.
We're
going to spend a considerable length of time talking
about age-regression and abreaction in working through
a trauma. I'll show you with a non-MPD patient -- some
of that kind of work -- and then extrapolate from what
I find so similar and different with MPD cases. Part
of that, I would add, by the way, is that I've been
very sensitive through the years about taping MPD cases
or ritual-abuse cases, part of it being that some of
that feels a little like using patients and I think
that this population has been used enough. That's part
of the reason, by choice, that I don't generally videotape
my work.
I also want to talk a bunch about hypnotic relapse-prevention
strategies and post- integration therapy today. Finally,
I hope to find somewhere in our time-frame to spend
on hour or so talking specifically about ritual abuse
and about mind-control programming and brainwashing
-- how it's done, how to get on the inside with that
-- which is a topic that in the past I haven't been
willing to speak about publicly, have done that in small
groups and in consultations, but recently decided that
it was high time that somebody started doing it. So
we're going to talk about specifics today.
[Applause]
In
Chicago at the first international congress where ritual
abuse was talked about I can remember thinking, "How
strange and interesting." I can recall many people listening
to an example given that somebody thought was so idiosyncratic
and rare, and all the people coming up after saying,
"Gee, you're treating one, too? You're in Seattle"...Well,
I'm in Toronto...Well, I'm in Florida...Well, I'm in
Cincinnati." I didn't know what to think at that point.
It
wasn't too long after that I found my first ritual-abuse
patient in somebody I was already treating and we hadn't
gotten that deep yet. Things in that case made me very
curious about the use of mind-control techniques and
hypnosis and other brainwashing techniques. So I started
studying brainwashing and some of the literature in
that area and became acquainted with, in fact, one of
the people who'd written one of the better books in
that area.
Then
I decided to do a survey, and from the ISSMP&D [International
Society for the Study of Mulptiple Personality and Dissociation]
folks I picked out about a dozen and a half therapists
that I though were seeing more of that than probably
anyone else around and I started surveying them. The
interview protocol, that I had. got the same reaction
almost without exception. Those therapists said, "You're
asking questions I don't know the answers to. You're
asking more specific questions than I've ever asked
my patients." Many of those same therapists said, "Let
me ask those questions and I'll get back to you with
the answer." Many of them not only got back with answers,
but said, "You've got to talk to this patient or these
two patients." I ended up doing hundred of dollars worth
of telephone interviewing.
What
I came out of that was a grasp of a variety of brainwashing
methods being used all over the country. I started to
hear some similarities. Whereas I hadn't known, to begin
with, how widespread things were, I was now getting
a feeling that there were a lot of people reporting
some similar things and that there must be some degree
of communication here.
Then
approximately two and a half years ago I had some material
drop in my lap. My source was saying a lot of things
that I knew were accurate about some of the brainwashing,
but it was telling me new material I had no idea about.
At this point I took and decided to check it out in
three ritual-abuse patients I was seeing at the time.
Two of the three had what they were describing, in careful
inquiry without leading or contaminating. The fascinating
thing was that as I did a telephone-consult with a therapist
that I'd been consulting for quite a number of months
on an MPD case in another state, I told her to inquire
about certain things. She said, "Well, what are those
things?" I said, "I'm not going to tell you, because
I don't want there to be any possibility of contamination.
Just come back to me and tell me what the patient says."
She
called me back two hours later, said, "I just had a
double session with this patient and there was a part
of him that said, 'Oh, we're so excited. If you know
about this stuff, you know how the Cult Programmers
get on the inside and our therapy is going to go so
much faster.'"
Many
other patients since have had a reaction of wanting
to pee their pants out of anxiety and fear rather than
thinking it was wonderful thing.
But
the interesting thing was that she then asked, "What
are these things?" They were word perfect -- same answers
my source had given me. I've since repeated that in
many parts of the country. I've consulted in eleven
states and one foreign country, in some cases over the
telephone, in some cases in person, in some cases giving
the therapist information ahead of time and saying,
"Be very careful how you phrase this. Phrase it in these
ways so you don't contaminate." In other cases not even
giving the therapist information ahead of time so they
couldn't.
When
you start to find the same highly esoteric information
in different states and different countries, from Florida
to California, you start to get an idea that there's
something going on that is very large, very well coordinated,
with a great deal of communication and sytematicness
to what's happening. So I have gone from someone kind
of neutral and not knowing what to think about it all
to someone who clearly believes ritual abuse is real
and that the people who say it isn't are either naive
like people who didn't want to believe the Holocaust
or -- they're dirty.
[Applause]
Now
for a long time I would tell a select group of therapists
that I knew and trusted, information and say, "Spread
it out. Don't spread my name. Don't say where it came
from. But here's some information. Share it with other
therapists if you find it's on target, and I'd appreciate
your feedback." People would question -- in talks --
and say, you know, they were hungry for information.
Myself, as well as a few others that I've shared it
with, were hedging out of concern and out of personal
threats and out of death threats. I finally decided
to hell with them. If they're going to kill me, they're
going to kill me. It's time to share more information
with therapists. Part of that comes because we proceeded
so cautiously and slowly, checking things in many different
locations and find the same thing. So I'm going to give
you the way in with ritual-abuse programming. I certainly
can't tell you everything that you want to know in forty-five
or fifty minutes, but I'm going to give you the essentials
to get inside and start working at a new level.
I don't know what proportion, honestly, of patients
have this. I would guess that maybe somewhere around
at least fifty percent, maybe as high as three-quarters,
I would guess maybe two-thirds of your ritual-abuse
patients may have this. What do I think the distinguishing
characteristic is? If they were raised from birth in
a mainstream cult or if they were an non-bloodline person,
meaning neither parent was in the Cult, but Cult people
had a lot of access to them in early childhood, they
may also have it. I have seen more than one ritual-abuse
patient who clearly had all the kind of ritual things
you hear about. They seemed very genuine. They talked
about all the typical things that you hear in this population,
but had none of this programming with prolonged extensive
checking. So I believe in one case I was personally
treating that she was a kind of schizmatic break-off
that had kind of gone off and done their own thing and
were no longer hooked into a mainstream group.
[Pause]
Here's
where it appears to have come from. At the end of World
War II, before it even ended, Allen Dulles and
people from our Intelligence Community were already
in Switzerland making contact to get out Nazi scientists.
As World War II ends, they not only get out rocket scientists,
but they also get out some Nazi doctors who have been
doing mind-control research in the camps.
They
brought them to the United States. Along with them was
a young boy, a teenager, who had been raised in a Hasidic
Jewish tradition and a background of Cabalistic mysticism
that probably appealed to people in the Cult because
at least by the turn of the century Aleister Crowley
had been introducing Cabalism into Satanic stuff, if
not earlier. I suspect it may have formed some bond
between them. But he saved his skin by collaborating
and being an assistant to them in the death-camp experiments.
They brought him with them.
They
started doing mind-control research for Military Intelligence
in military hospitals in the United States. The
people that came, the Nazi doctors, were Satanists.
Subsequently, the boy changed his name, Americanized
it some, obtained an M.D. degree, became a physician
and continued this work that appears to be at the center
of Cult Programming today. His name is known to patients
throughout the country.
[Pause]
What
they basically do is they will get a child and they
will start this, in basic forms, it appears, by about
two and a half after the child's already been made dissociative.
They'll make him dissociative not only through abuse,
like sexual abuse, but also things like putting a mousetrap
on their fingers and teaching the parents, "You do not
go in until the child stops crying. Only then do you
go in and remove it."
They
start in rudimentary forms at about two and a half and
kick into high gear, it appears, around six or six and
a half, continue through adolescence with periodic reinforcements
in adulthood.
Basically
in the programming the child will be put typically on
a gurney. They will have an IV in one hand or arm. They'll
be strapped down, typically naked. There'll be wires
attached to their head to monitor electroencephalograph
patterns. They will see a pulsing light, most often
described as red, occasionally white or blue. They'll
be given, most commonly I believe, Demerol. Sometimes
it'll be other drugs as well depending on the kind of
programming. They have it, I think, down to a science
where they've learned you give so much every twenty-
five minutes until the programming is done.
They
then will describe a pain on one ear, their right ear
generally, where it appears a needle has been placed,
and they will hear weird, disorienting sounds in that
ear while they see photic stimulation to drive the brain
into a brainwave pattern with a pulsing light at a certain
frequency not unlike the goggles that are now available
through Sharper Image and some of those kinds of stores.
Then, after a suitable period when they're in a certain
brainwave state, they will begin programming, programming
oriented to self-destruction and debasement of the person.
In a patient at this point in time about eight years
old who has gone through a great deal early programming
took place on a military installation. That's not uncommon.
I've treated and been involved with cases who are part
of this original mind-control project as well as having
their programming on military reservations in many cases.
We find a lot of connections with the CIA. This patient
now was in a Cult school, a private Cult school where
several of these sessions occurred a week.
She
would go into a room, get all hooked up. They would
do all of these sorts of things. When she was in the
proper altered state, now they were no longer having
to monitor it with electroencephalographs, she also
had already had placed on her electrodes, one in the
vagina, for example, four on the head. Sometimes they'll
be on other parts of the body. They will then begin
and they would say to her, "You are angry with someone
in the group." She'd say, "No, I'm not" and they'd violently
shock her. They would say the same thing until she complied
and didn't make any negative response.
Then
they would continue. "And because you are angry with
someone in the group," or "When you are angry with someone
in the group, you will hurt yourself. Do you understand?"
She said, "No" and they shocked her. They repeated again,
"Do you understand?" "Well, yes, but I don't want to."
Shock her again untill they get compliance. Then they
keep adding to it. "And you will hurt yourself by cutting
yourself. Do you understand?" Maybe she'd say yes, but
they might say, "We don't believe you" and shock her
anyway. "Go back and go over it again." They would continue
in this sort of fashion. She said typically it seemed
as though they'd go about thirty minutes, take a break
for a smoke or something, come back. They may review
what they'd done and stopped or they might review what
they'd done and go on to new material. She said the
sessions might go half an hour, they might go three
hours. She estimated three times a week.
Programming
under the influence of drugs in a certain brainwave
state and with these noises in one ear and them speaking
in the other ear, usually the left ear, associated with
right hemisphere non-dominant brain functioning, and
with them talking, therefore, and requiring intense
concentration, intense focusing. Because often they'll
have to memorize and say certain things back, word-perfect,
to avoid punishment, shock, and other kinds of things
that are occurring. This is basically how a lot of programming
goes on.
Some
of it'll also use other typical brainwashing kinds of
techniques. There will be very standardized types of
hypnotic things done at times. There'll be sensory deprivation
which we know increases suggestibility in anyone. Total
sensory deprivation, suggestibility has significantly
increased, from the research. It's not uncommon for
them to use a great deal of that, including formal sensory-
deprivation chambers before they do certain of these
things.
[Pause]
Now
let me give you, because we don't have a lot of time,
as much practical information as I can.
The
way that I would inquire as to whether or not some of
this might be there would be with ideomotor finger-signals.
After you've set them up I would say, "I want the central
inner core of you to take control of the finger-signals."
Don't ask the unconscious mind. The case where you're
inquiring about ritual abuse, that's for the central
inner core. The core is a Cult-created part. "And I
want that central inner core of you to take control
of this hand of these finger-signals and what it has
for the yes-finger to float up. I want to ask the inner
core of you is there any part of you, any part of Mary,"
that's the host's name, "who knows anything about Alpha,
Beta, Delta, or Theta."
If
you get a Yes, it should raise a red flag that you might
have someone with formal intensive brainwashing and
programming in place.
I
would then ask and say, "I want a part inside who knows
something about Alpha, Beta, Delta, and Theta to come
up to a level where you can speak to me and when you're
here say, 'I'm here.'" I would not ask if a part was
willing to. No one's going to particularly want to talk
about this. I would just say, "I want some part who
can tell me about this to come out." Without leading
them ask them what these things are. I've had consults
where I've come in. Sometimes I've gotten a Yes to that,
but as I've done exploration it appeared to be some
kind of compliance response or somebody wanting, in
two or three cases, to appear maybe that they were ritual
abuse and maybe they were in some way, but with careful
inquiry and looking it was obvious that they did not
have what we were looking for.
Let
me tell you what these are. Let's suppose that this
whole front row here are multiples and that she has
an alter named Helen and she has one named Mary, she
has one named Gertrude, she has one named Elizabeth,
and she has one named Monica. Every one of those alters
may have put on it a program, perhaps designated alpha-zero-zero-nine
a Cult person could say, "Alpha-zero-zero-nine" or make
some kind of hand gesture to indicate this and get the
same part out in any one of them even though they had
different names that they may be known by to you.
Alphas
appear to represent general programming, the first kind
of things put in. Betas appear to be sexual programs.
For example, how to perform oral sex in a certain way,
how to perform sex in rituals, having to do with producing
child pornography, directing child pornography, prostitution.
Deltas are killers trained in how to kill in ceremonies.
There'll also be some self- harm stuff mixed in with
that, assassination and killing. Thetas are called psychic
killers.
You
know, I had never in my life heard those two terms paired
together. I'd never heard the words "psychic killers"
put together, but when you have people in different
states, including therapists inquiring and asking, "What
is Theta," and patients say to them, "Psychic killers,"
it tends to make one a believer that certain things
are very systematic and very widespread. This comes
from their belief in psychic sorts of abilities and
powers, including their ability to psychically communicate
with "mother'" including their ability to psychically
cause somebody to develop a brain aneurysm and die.
It also is a more future-oriented kind of programming.
Then
there's Omega. I usually don't include that word when
I say my first question about this or any part inside
that knows about Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta because Omega
will shake them even more. Omega has to do with self-destruct
programming. Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the
end. This can include self-mutilation as well as killing-
themselves programming.
Gamma
appears to be system-protection and deception programming
which will provide misinformation to you, try to misdirect
you, tell you half-truths, protect different things
inside.
There
can also be other Greek letters. I'd recommend that
you go and get your entire Greek alphabet and if you
have verified that some of this stuff is present and
they have given you some of the right answers about
what some of this material is, and I can't underline
enough: DO NOT LEAD THEM. Do not say, "Is this killers?"
Get the answer from them, please. When you've done this
and it appears to be present, I would take your entire
Greek alphabet and, with ideomotor signals, go through
the alphabet and say, "Is there any programming inside
associated with epsilon, omicron," and go on through.
There may be some sytematicness to some of the other
letter, but I'm not aware of it. I've found, for example,
in one case that Zeta had to do with the production
of snuff films that this person was involved with.
With
another person, Omicron had to do with their linkage
and associations with drug smuggling and with the Mafia
and with big business and government leaders. So there's
going to be some individualism, I think, in some of
those.
Some
of those are come-home programs, "come back to the Cult",
"return to the Cult" program.
Here's
the flaw in the system. They have built in shut-down
and erasure codes so if they got into trouble they could
shut something down and they could also erase something.
These codes will sometimes be idiosyncratic phrases,
or ditties. Sometimes they will be numbers maybe followed
by a word. There's some real individuality to that.
At first I had hoped if we can get some of these maybe
they'll work with different people. No such luck. It's
very unlikely unless they were programmed at about the
same point in time as part of the same little group.
Stuff that I've seen suggests that they carry laptop
computers, the programmers, which still include everything
that they did twenty, thirty years ago in them in terms
of the names of alters, the programs, the codes, and
so on.
Now
what you can do is get erasure codes, and I always ask,
"If I say this code, what will happen?' Doublecheck.
"Is there any part inside who has different information?"
Watch your ideomotor signals and what I've found is
you can erase programs by giving the appropriate codes,
but then you must abreact the feelings. So if you erase
Omega, which is often where I've started because it's
the most high risk. Afterwards I will get all the Omega,
what were formerly Omega alters, together so that we
will abreact and give back to the host the memories
associated with all the programming that was done with
Omega and anything any Omega part ever had to do in
a fractionated abreaction.
They
use the metaphor -- and it is their metaphor -- of robots.
and it is like a robot shell comes down over the child
alter to make them act in robotic fashion. Once in a
while internally you'll confront robots. What I found
from earlier work, and so I speed the process up now
because I confirmed it enough times, is that you can
say to the core, "Core, I want you to look -- there's
this robot blocking the way in some way, blocking the
progress. Go around and look at the back of the head
and tell me what you notice on the back of the head
or the neck." I just ask it very non-leading like that
and what's commonly said to me is that there were wires
or a switch. So I'll tell them, "Hold the wires or flip
the switch and it will immobilize the robot and give
me a yes- signal when you've done it." Pretty soon you
get a yes- signal. "Great. Now that the robot is immobilized,
I want you to look inside the robot and tell me what
you see."
It's
generally one or several children. I have them remove
the children. I do a little hypnotic magic and ask the
core to use a laser and vaporize the robot so nothing
is left. They're usually quite amazed that this works,
as have been a number of therapists.
[Pause]
Now
there are many different layers of this stuff is the
problem. Let me come over to the overhead and give some
ideas about them. What we have up here are innumerable
alters.
I'll
tell you one of the fascinating things I've seen. I
remember a little over a year ago coming in to see some
cases, some of the tough cases at a dissociative-disorders
unit of a couple of the finest of the MPD therapists
in this country, who are always part of all the international
meetings, have lectured internationally. We worked and
I look at some of their patients. They were amazed at
certain things because they had not been aware of this
before. As we worked with some of the patients and confirmed
it, I remember one woman who'd been inpatient for three
years, still was inpatient. Another who had one intensive
year of inpatient work with all the finest MPD therapy
you can imagine -- abreactions, integrations, facilitating
cooperation, art therapy, on and on and on, journaling,
intensively for one inpatient year followed by an intensive
year of outpatient therapy two, three hours a week.
In both patients we found out that all of this great
work had done nothing but deal with the alters up here
and had not touched the mind-control programming. In
fact it was not only intact, but we found that the one
who was outpatient was having her therapy monitored
every session by her mother, out-of-state, over the
telephone, and that she still had intact suggestions
that had been give to her at a certain future time to
kill her therapist.
Now one of the things that I would very carefully check
is, I would suggest that you ask the core, not just
the unconscious mind, ask the core, "Is there any part
inside that continues to have contact with people associated
with the Cult? Is there any part inside who goes to
Cult rituals or meetings? Is there a recording device
inside of Mary," if that's the host's name, "a recording
device inside so that someone can find out the things
that are said in sessions?" This doesn't mean they're
monitored. Many of them just simply have it. "Is there
someone who debriefs some part inside for what happens
in our therapy sessions?" I have the very uncomfortable
feeling from some past experience that when you look
at this you will find the large proportion of ritual-abuse
victims in this country are having their ongoing therapy
monitored.
I
remember a woman who came in about twenty-four years
old, claimed her father was a Satanist. Her parents
divorced when she was six. After that it would only
when her father had visitation and he would take her
to rituals sometimes up until age fifteen. She said,
"I haven't gone to anything since I was fifteen." Her
therapist believed this at face value. We sat in my
office. We did a two-hour inquiry using hypnosis. We
found the programming present. In addition to that we
found that every therapy session was debriefed and in
fact they had told her to get sick and not come to the
appointment with me.
Another
one had been told that I was Cult and that if she came
I would know that she'd been told not to come and I
would punish her. If anything meaningful comes out in
a patient who's being monitored like that -- from what
I've learned thus far, they're tortured with electric
shocks -- my belief is if they're in that situation
you can't do meaningful therapy other than being supportive
and caring and letting them know you care a lot and
you'll be there to support them. But I wouldn't try
to work with any kind of deep material or deprogramming
with them because I think it can do nothing but get
them tortured and hurt unless they can get into a safe,
secure inpatient unit for an extended period of time
to do some of the work required.
I
have a feeling that when you make inquiries you're going
to find that probably greater than fifty percent of
these patients, if they're bloodline, meaning mother
or dad or both involved, will be monitored on some ongoing
basis. [Pause] Now when you come below the alters, you
then have Alpha, Beta, Delta, Theta, so and so forth,
the Greek-letter programming and they will then have
backup programs. There will typically be an erasure
code for the backups. There may be one code that combines
all the backups into one and then an erasure code for
them, simply one code that erases all the backups. So
I will get the code for, let's say, Omega and for all
the Omega backups at the same time. After I've asked
"What will happen if I give this," I will give the code
and then I will say, "What are you experiencing?" They
often describe computer whirring, things erasing, explosions
inside, all sorts of interesting things. I've had some
therapists come back and say, "My Lord, I had never
said anything about robots she said something about
robots vaporizing."
I
remember one therapist who'd been with me in several
hypnosis workshops and consulted with me about a crisis
MPD situation. I told her to inquire about Alpha, Beta,
Delta, Theta. She did. She got back to me saying, "Yeah,
I got an indication it's there. What is it?" I said,
"I'm not going to tell you. Go back and inquire about
some of this." We set an appointment for a week or so
hence. She got back with me and said, "I asked what
Theta was and she said, 'psychic killers.' I asked her
what Delta was and she said 'killers.'" Okay. So I told
her about some of this stuff for a two-hour consult.
She
called back and she said, "This seemed too fantastic.
I heard this and I thought, 'Has Cory been working too
hard?'" she said, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but she
said, "I held you in high professional regard, but this
just sounded so off in the twilight zone that I really
thought, 'Is he having a nervous breakdown or something?'"
She said, "But I respected you enough to ask about this."
She said, "I asked another MPD patient and she didn't
have any of this." So in this patient she started describing
things and how she worked, for example, with an erasure
and she was describing things like robots vaporizing
and kinds of things. She said, "I hadn't told her about
any of these things." Well, here's the problem. There
are different layers and I think some of them are designed
to keep us going in circles forever. They figured we
probably, in most cases, wouldn't get below the alters
which they purposefully created.
The
way you create Manchurian Candidates is you divide the
mind. It's part of what the Intelligence Community wanted
to look at. If you're going to get an assassin, you're
going to get somebody to go do something, you divide
the mind. It fascinates me about cases like the assassination
of Robert Kennedy, where Bernard Diamond, on examining
Sirhan Sirhan found that he had total amnesia of the
killing of Robert Kennedy, but under hypnosis could
remember it. But despite suggestions he would be able
to consciously remember, could not remember a thing
after was out of hypnosis. I'd love to examine Sirhan
Sirhan.
It
appears that below this we've got some other layers.
One is called "Green Programming" it appears. Isn't
it interesting that the doctor's name is Dr. Green?
One of the questions in a way that does not contaminate
is after I've identified some of this stuff is there
and they've given me a few right answers about what
some of it is, "If there were a doctor associated with
this programming and his name were a color, you know,
like Dr. Chartreuse or something, if his name were a
color, what color would the color be?"
Now
once in a while I've had some other colors mentioned
in about three or four patients that I felt were trying
to dissimulate in some way and I don't really believe
had this. In one case I got another color and I found
out later it was a doctor whose name was a color who
was being trained by Dr. Green almost thirty years ago
and he supervised part of the programming of this woman
under this doctor. I remember one woman couldn't come
up with anything. No alter would speak up with anything.
I said, "Okay," and we went on to some other material.
About two minutes later she said, "Green. Do you mean
Dr. Green?" We found this all over.
There
appears to be some Green Programming below that and
I suspect that you get down to fewer and more central
programs the deeper you go. Well, all Green Programming
is Ultra-Green and the Green Tree. Cabalistic mysticism
is mixed all into this. If you're going to work with
this you need to pick up a couple of books on the Cabala.
One is by a man named Dion Fortune called "Qabala" with
a "q," Dion Fortune. Another is by Ann Huffer-Heller
and it's called "The Kabbalah." I knew nothing about
the Cabala. It was interesting. A patient had sat in
my waiting area, got there considerably early and drew
a detailed multicolored Cabalistic Tree over two years
ago. It took me two months to figure out what it was.
Finally, showing it to somebody else who said, "You
know? That looks an awful lot like the Cabala Tree"
and that rang a bell with some esoteric in an old book
and I dug it out. That was the background of Dr. Green.
Now
the interesting thing about the Green Tree is his original
name was Greenbaum. What does "greenbaum" mean in German?
Green Tree, Ultra-Tree and the Green Tree. I've also
had patients who didn't appear to know that his original
name was Greenbaum, volunteered that there were parts
inside named Mr. Greenbaum. Now let me give you some
information about parts inside that may be helpful to
you if you're going to inquire about these things, because
my experience is one part will give you some information
and either run dry or get defensive or scared and stop.
and so you punt and you make an end run and you come
around the other direction, you find another part. I'll
tell you several parts to ask for and ask if there's
a part by this name. And, by the way, when I'm screening
patients and fiddling around with this, I throw in a
bunch of spurious ones and ask, "Is there a part inside
by this name and by that name" as a check on whether
or not it appears genuine. For example. "In addition
to the core," I ask, "is there a part inside named Wisdom?"
Wisdom is a part of the Cabalistic Tree. Wisdom, I've
often found, will be helpful and give you a lot of information.
"Is there a part inside named Diana?" I mean I may throw
in all sorts of things. "Is there a part inside named
Zelda?" I've never encountered one yet! Just to see
what kind of answers we get. I try to do this carefully.
Diana is a part that, in the Cabalistic system, is associated
with a part called the Foundation. You will be fascinated
to know that. Remember the Process Church? Roman Polanski's
wife, Sharon Tate, was killed by the Manson Family who
were associated with the Process Church? A lot of prominent
people in Hollywood were associated and then they went
underground, the books say, in about seventy-eight and
vanished? Well, they're alive and well in southern Utah.
We have a thick file in the Utah Department of Public
Safety documenting that they moved to southern Utah,
north of Monument Valley, bought a movie ranch in the
desert, renovated it, expanded it, built a bunch of
buildings there, carefully monitored so that very few
people go out of there and no one can get in and changed
their name.
A
key word in their name is "Foundation." The Foundation.
There are some other words. The Foundation is part of
the Tree. So you can ask, "Is there something inside
known as The Foundation?" I might ask other things to
throw people off. "Is there something known as the Sub-Basement?"
Well, maybe they'll conceive of something. Or "Is there
something known as the Walls?" There are a variety of
questions you can come up with, to sort of screen some
things. I've also found that there will often be a part
called "Black Master," a part called "Master Programmer,"
and that there will be computer operators inside. How
many of you have come into computer things in patients?
There will typically be computer operators: Computer
Operator Black, Computer Operator Green, Computer Operator
Purple. Sometimes they'll have numbers instead, sometimes
they'll be called Systems Information Directors. You
can find out the head one of those. There'll be a source
of some information for you. I will ask inside, "Is
there a part inside named Dr. Green?" You'll find that
there are, if they have this kind of programming, in
my experience. Usually with a little work and reframing,
you can turn them and help them to realize that they
were really a child-part who's playing a role and they
had no choice then, but they do now. You know, they
played their role very, very well, but they don't have
to continue to play it with you because they're safe
here and in fact,
"If
the Cult simply found out that you talked to me, that
they you had shared information with me, you tell me
what would they do to you?" Emphasize that the only
way out is through me and that they need to cooperate
and share information and help me and that I'll help
them. So all these parts can give you various information.
Now
they have tried to protect this very carefully. Let
me give you an example with Ultra-Green. I discovered
this -- by the way I used to think this programming
was only in bloodline people. I've discovered it in
non-bloodline people, but it's a bit different. They
don't want it to be just the same. I don't think you'll
find deep things like Ultra-Green and probably not even
Green Programming with non-bloodline people. But let
me tell you something that I discovered first in a non-bloodline
and then in a bloodline.
We
were going along and a patient was close to getting
well, approaching final integration in a non-bloodline
and she suddenly started hallucinating and her fingers
were becoming hammers and other things like that. So
I used an affect-bridge and we went back and we found
that what happened was that they gave suggestions, that
if she ever got well to a certain point she would go
crazy. The way they did this was they strapped her down
and they gave her LSD when she was eight years old.
When she began hallucinating they inquired about the
nature of the hallucinations so they could utilize them
in good Ericsonian fashion and build on them and then
combine the drug-effect with powerful suggestions. "If
you ever get to this point you will go crazy. If you
ever get fully integrated and get well you will go crazy
like this and will be locked up in an institution for
the rest of your life. They gave those suggestions vigorously
and repetitively. Finally they introduced other suggestions
that, "Rather than have this happen, it would be easier
to just kill yourself." In a bloodline patient then,
as I began inquiring about deep material, the patient
started to experience similar symptoms. We went back
and we found the identical things were done to her.
This
was called the "Green Bomb." B-O-M-B. Lots of interesting
internal consistencies like that play on words with
Dr. Greenbaum, his original name. Now in this case it
was done to her at age nine for the first time and then
only hers was different. Hers was a suggestion for amnesia.
"If you ever remember anything about Ultra-Green and
the Green Tree you will go crazy. You will become a
vegetable and be locked up forever." Then finally the
suggestions added, "And it'll be easier to just kill
yourself than have that happen to you, if you ever remember
it."
At
age twelve then, three years later, they used what sounds
like an Amytol interview to try to breach the amnesia
and find out if they could. They couldn't. So then they
strapped her down again, took and gave her something
to kind of paralyze her body, gave her LSD, an even
bigger dose and reinforced all the suggestions. Did
a similar thing at the age of sixteen. So these are
some of the kind of booby traps you run into.
There are a number of cases where they combined powerful
drug effects like this with suggestions to keep us from
discovering some of this deeper level stuff.
What's
the bottom? Your guess is as good as mine but I can
tell you that I've had a lot of therapists who were
stymied with these cases who were going nowhere. In
fact someone here that I told some basic information
about this to in Ohio a couple of months ago said it
opened all sorts of things up in a patient who'd been
going nowhere. That's an often common thing. I think
that we can move down to deeper levels and if we deal
with some of the deeper level stuff it may destroy all
the stuff above it. But we don't even know that yet.
In some of the patients I'm working with we have pretty
much dealt with a lot of the top-level stuff. I'll tell
you how we've done some of that. We'll take and erase
one system like Omega. Then we will have a huge abreaction
of all the memories and feelings in a fractionated abreaction
associated with those parts.
I
typically find I'll say to them, "Now that we've done
this are there any other memories and feelings that
any parts that were Omega still have?" The answer's
usually "No." At that point I will say, "I usually find
at this point in time the majority, if not all, of those
parts that used to be Omega no longer feel a desire
or need to be different, realizing that you split off
originally by them and want to go home to Mary and become
one with her again." I use the concept often now --
which came from a patient -- of going home and becoming
one with her. "Going back from whence you came" is another
phrase I'll use with them. "Are there any Omega parts
inside who do not feel comfortable with that or have
reservations or concerns about that?" If there are we
talk to them. We deal with them. A few may not integrate.
My experience is most of the time they'll integrate
and we may integrate twenty-five parts at once in a
polyfragmented complex MPD.
I
think it is vitally important to abreact the feelings
before you go on. Also for many patients it hasn't seemed
to matter the order we go in but I've found a couple
where it has. If it doesn't seem to matter I'll typically
go Omega, then Delta because they have more violence
potential, then Gamma to get rid of the self- deception
stuff. What I will do before I just assume anything
and do that, is once we've done Omega and showed them
that success can occur and something can happen and
they feel relief after, I will say to them, "I want
to ask the core -- through the fingers -- is there a
specific order in which programs must be erased?" You
know maybe it doesn't matter but most of the time I
found "No." There are cases where we found "Yes." I
recommend doing one or two or three of those because
they'll produce relief and and a sense of optimism in
the patient. But then I would recommend starting to
probe for the deeper level things and getting their
input and recommendations about the order in which we
go. Question?
Q:
What has been the typical age and typical gender of
this type of person?
Dr.H:
I know of this being found in men and women. Most of
the patients I know with MPD ritual abuse that are being
treated are women, however. I know of some men being
treated where we've found this. A while back I was talking
to a small group of therapists somewhere. I told them
about some of this. In the middle of talking about some
of this all the color drained out of one social worker's
face and she obviously had a reaction and I asked her
about and she said, "I'm working with a five-year-old
boy," and she said, "Just in the last few weeks he was
saying something about a Dr. Green."
I
went on a little further and I mentioned some of these
things and she just shook her head again. I said, "What's
going on?" She said, "He's been spontaneously telling
me about robots and about Omega." I think you will find
variations of this and that they've changed it, probably
every few years and maybe somewhat regionally to throw
us off in various ways but that certain basics and fundamentals
will probably be there. I have seen this in people up
into their forties including people whose parents were
very, very high in the CIA, other sorts of things like
that. I've had some that were originally part of the
Monarch Project which is the name of the government
Intelligence project. Question in the back?
Q:
I'm still not grasping how one starts, how you find
out how to erase. How do you get that information?
Dr.H:
I would say, "I want the core, if necessary, using the
telepathic communication ability you have to read minds,"
because they believe in that kind of stuff, "so I'll
use it..." I was trained in Ericsonian stuff, "...to
obtain for me the erasure code of all Omega programs.
When you've done so, I want the yes-finger to float
up." Then I ask them to tell it to me. "Are there backups
for Omega programs?" "Yes." "Okay? How many backups
are there?" "Six," they say, let's say. It's different
numbers. "Is there an erasure code for all the backup
programs?" "No." "Is there an erasure code that combines
all the backups into one?" "Yes." "Obtain that code
for me and when you've go it give me the yes-signal
again." It can move almost that fast in some cases where
there's not massive resistance. Question?
Q:
Yes, can you tell me what you know about the risks to
the therapist? [Laughter]
Dr.H:
You would have to ask.
Q:
Yeah, I'd like to know that. What kind of data do you
have given that you've had contact with large numbers
of people. Not just threats but also any injury, any
family problems that have arisen. That's one question.
A second one is are you aware of anybody that you've
treated -- or others -- with this level of dissociation
and trauma that have recovered? Integrated? Whole and
happy?
Dr.H:
Okay, I have one non-bloodline multiple, complex multiple
who had this kind of programming where they have a lot
of access to the patient as neighbors and where the
doctor, by the way, you'll find physicians heavily
involved. They've encouraged their own to go to medical
school, to prescribe drugs to take care of their own,
to get access to medical technology and be above suspicion.
There
have been a couple, in fact, in Utah who've been nailed
now. We now in Utah have two full time ritual-abuse
investigators with statewide jurisdiction under the
Attorney General's Office to do nothing but investigate
this.
[Applause]
Okay?
In a poll done in the State of Utah in January by the
major newspaper and television station, they found that
ninety percent of Utahans believe that ritual abuse
is genuine and real. Not all of them believe it's a
frequent occurrence but some of that was imparted from
two years of work by the Governor Commission on Ritual
Abuse, interviewing, talking, meeting people, gathering
data.
Now
when people say, by the way, "There's no evidence. They've
never found a body," that's baloney. They found a body
in Idaho of a child. They've had a case last summer
that was convicted on first-degree murder charges, two
people that the summer before that were arrested where
the teenaged girl's finger and head were in the refrigerator
and they were convicted of first-degree murder in Detroit.
There have been cases and bodies.
Back
to risk. I know of no therapist who's been harmed. But
patients inform us that there will come a future
time where we could be at risk of being assassinated
by patients who've been programmed to kill at a certain
time anyone that they've told and any member of their
own family who's not active. If that would come
about is speculative. Who knows for sure? Maybe, but
I don't think it's entirely without risk. A question
in the back?
Q:
It seems to me that there seems to be some similarity
between these kinds of programming and those people
who claim that they've been abducted by spaceships and
have had themselves physically probed and reprogrammed
and all of that sort of thing. Since Cape Canaveral
is across the Florida peninsula from me and I don't
think that they've reported any spaceships lately, I
was just wondering is there any sort of relationship
between this and that?
Dr.H:
I'll share my speculation, that comes from others really.
I've not dealt with any of those people. However, I
know a therapist that I know and trust and respect who
I've informed about all this a couple of years ago and
has found it in a lot of patients and so on, who is
firmly of the belief that those people are in fact ritual-abuse
victims who have been programmed with that sort of thing
to destroy all their credibility. If somebody's coming
in and reporting abduction by a flying sauce who's going
to believe them on anything else in the future? Also
as a kind of thing that can be pointed to and said,
"This is as ridiculous as that."
All
I know is that I recently had a consult, a telephone
consult, with a therapist where I had been instructing
her about some of this kind of stuff. When we were consulting
at one point in the fifth or sixth interview she said,
"By the way, do you know anything about this topic?"
I said, "Well, not really" and shared with her what
I shared with you. I said, "If it were me being with
this guy..." that she'd been seeing for a couple of
months, I said, "I would ask inside for the core to
take control of finger-signals and inquire about Alpha,
Beta, Delta, Theta." She proceeded to do all that, got
back to me a week later and said, "Boy, were you on
target. There is a part inside named Dr. Green. There's
this kind of programming."
Yes?
Q:
What's the difference between this kind of program and
cult-type abuse and Satanic abuse in the kind of cults
with the candles and the...
Dr.H:
This type of programming will be done in the cults with
the candles and all the rest. My impression is this
is simply done in people where they have great access
to them or they're bloodline and their parents are in
it and they can be raised in it from an early age. If
they are bloodline they are the chosen generation. If
not, they're expendable and they are expected to die
and not get well. There will be booby traps in your
way if they aren't non-bloodline people that when they
get well they will kill themselves. I'll tell you just
a little about that. My belief is that some people that
have ritual abuse and don't have this have been ritually
abused but they may be may be part of a non-mainstream
group. The Satanism comes in the overall philosophy
overriding all of this.
People
say, "What's the purpose of it?" My best guess
is that the purpose of it is that they want an army
of Manchurian Candidates, ten of thousands of mental
robots who will do prostitution, do child pornography,
smuggle drugs, engage in international arms smuggling,
do snuff films, all sorts of very lucrative things and
do their bidding and eventually the megalomaniacs at
the top believe they'll create a Satanic Order that
will rule the world. One last question. Then I'll
give you couple of details and we need to shift gears.
Q:
You have suggested and implied that at some point at
a high level of the U.S. Government there was support
of this kind of thing. I know we're short of time,
but could you just say a few words about the documentation
that may exist for that suggestion?
Dr.H:
There isn't great documentation of it. It comes from
victims who are imperiled witnesses. The interesting
thing is how many people have described the same scenario
and how many people that we have worked with who have
had relatives in NASA, in the CIA and in the Military,
including very high-ups in the Military.
I
can tell you that a friend and colleague of mine who
has probably the equivalent of half the table space
on that far side of the room filled with boxes with
declassified documents from mind-control research done
in the past which has been able to be declassified over
a considerable -- couple of decades -- period and has
read more government documents about mind control than
anyone else, has a brief that has literally been sent
in the past week and a half asking for all information
to be declassified about the Monarch Project for us
to try to find out more.
Now
let me just mention something about some of the stuff
that my experience is in several patients now that you
may run into late in the process. I know I'm throwing
a lot at you in a hurry. Some of it is completely foreign
and some of you may think, "Gosh, could any of this
be true?" Just, you know, ask. Find out in your patients
and you may be lucky and there isn't any of this. Somewhere
at a deep level you may run into some things like this.
Let me describe to you, if I can find my pen, the system
in one patient. One patient I had treated for quite
a while, a non-bloodline person.
We
had done what appeared to be successful work and reached
final integration. She came back to me early last year
and said she was symptomatic with some things. I started
inquiring. I found a part there we'd integrated. The
part basically said, "There was other stuff that I couldn't
tell you about and you integrated me and so I had to
split off." I had done some inquiring about things like
Alpha, Beta as a routine part of it and found they were
there and I said to this part, "Why didn't you tell
me about this stuff?" She said, "Well, we gave you some
hints but they went right over your head." Says, "I'm
sorry, but we know that you didn't know enough to help
us but now we know you can." So the stuff started coming
out. It was interesting.
She
described the overall system -- if I can remember it
now -- as being like this. The circle represented harm
to the body, a system of alters whose primary purpose
was to hurt her including symptoms like Munchhausen's,
self-mutilation, other kinds of things. Each of the
triangles represented still another different system.
She said, "With the exception of me," this one part,
"you dealt with the whole circle with the work that
we did before but you didn't touch the rest of the stuff."
Okay.
In the middle of all this was still another system consisting
of the Cabalistic Tree, which some of you are aware,
looks approximately like this with lines in between
and so on and so forth. There's a rough approximation.
That represented another system. Then once we got past
that she implied that this entire thing was somehow
encompassed by, what do you call it, an hourglass. I
kept thinking we were at final integration then I'd
find some other parts. This person had an eagle-eye
husband that was watching for certain things that we
found to be reliable indicators. So often I would get
evidence of dissociation within a few days. It would
suddenly be picked up. You know, what we found was I
continued to find evidence of dissociation and I'd find
parts. Finally this part, as I got angry with him and
said, "Why when I give these ideomotor inquiries am
I getting lied to?" This part said, "Because you don't
understand. You're going to get us all killed."
We
started talking and then she basically said, "It's been
programed so that if you succeed and think you've succeeded,
you will fail. They build it in as a way to laugh at
you, that if you ever get us integrated, we will die."
Here's
what she said, this part said, "I'm one of twelve disciples,"
and I've seen this in others, twelve disciples within
this hourglass each of whom had to memorize a disciple-lesson
which were basic Satanic kind of premises, philosophies
of life like "be good to those who hurt you, hate those
who are nice to you," on and on and on. There may be
two or three sentences like that associated with each
that they had to memorize them.
They
said, "We are like grains of sand falling and when the
last grain of sand falls, there's Death." I said, "Is
Death a part?" "Yes. When the last grain of sand falls
the Sleeping Giant awakens." The Sleeping Giant was
Death, who was then to kill them on Day-One or Day-Six
after awakening unless certain things were followed
and we did some of those.
Well
we also found Death had a sister as a backup, used with
mirrors to create the sister part. We had to get past
and deal with that too. Death had certain things that
they said had to be done to integrate. I started to
say, "Oh, come on, they lied to you before." She said,
"Wait a minute. This what they said you'd say. They
said that no doctor would ever believe that they had
to go these extremes to get us well and that's part
of the reason they'd fail." I said, "Well, tell me,
tell me again."
She
said, "I have to be dressed all in red. I have to have
Demerol onboard, have taken Demerol. A code has to be
given and it has to be in a room that's totally dark.
It has to happen on Day-One or Day-Six after this part's
been awakened."
I
said what I'd have to lose? I had a psychiatrist give
her a little Demerol. We used the code. My office didn't
have any windows anyway. It was pretty easy. Oh, and
there had to be four, I think, candles lit. Well, fine.
So we did it and everything went well. Maybe it would
have gone well if we hadn't done it, but I decided not
to take the chance and to trust the patient maybe. Well,
so we go on and then we find another part. There's Death
And Destruction, another backup also with a sister that
we had to get through. In fact, I think there were two
backups there. Interestingly, the very last part was
an extremely nice part, made especially that way so
that they wouldn't want to lose them because they would
be so adorable and so loving and so sweet that they
wouldn't want to maybe get rid of them. Then we found
that she continued to have these feelings with this
last part left now of darkness and blackness inside.
What did we find? A curtain.
She
said, "They assumed that if you ever got to this point,
you would," and along the way, by the way, we had encountered
this stuff about the LSD stuff, the Green Bomb programming.
The message was that she said, "There is a curtain behind
which are the remaining feelings and memories, but it
can't be opened from the middle. It's like a stage curtain.
It has to opened this way," that it can't be opened.
They assumed that you would try to deal with all the
feelings. That can't be opened until you've dealt with
that last part and they've integrated. So far it looks
like we've got integration that's holding. So I found
Death And Destruction and the Hourglass in non-bloodline.
"The
Tree and the Hourglass," this patient informed me, "were
made of sand because we were meant to die. We're expendable.
We're the unchosen generation."
I've
heard variously that it's crystals or blood that fills
the Hourglass in bloodline people. By the way, you can
do real simple things like turn the Hourglass on
its side so nothing can fall out, so time stands
still to be able to do certain kinds of work. Spread
the grains of sand on the seashore so that they can't
be numbered and the time will not be counted. Got that
idea from a ritual-abuse victim who had seen some of
this kind of programming done that another therapist
was seeing.
So
those would be just a few other hints about things that
may be helpful or meaningful. We're talking about very
intensive things and at deep levels to to me this give
us two things. One thing it gives to me is hope because
it gets to material and it makes progress like nothing
else we've ever seen with these people who have it.
The second thing it does for me is it demoralizes me,
too, because although three years ago I had a pretty
good idea about the extent and breadth of what they'd
one to these victims, I had no real appreciation for
the depth and breadth and intensity of what they'd done.
I want to come back to the other question over here
now. The other question is how many of them can get
well?
We
don't know. In most things in the mental health profession
we accept two-thirds of the patients are going to improve,
maybe seventy percent. There's very little we can get
everybody well. I think one of the sad things we have
to face is that many of these patients will probably
never be well. My personal belief is that if they are
being messed with their only hope of getting well is
if they can somehow get out of contact.
Now
I know patients who've gone to other states and simply
had deep-level alters pick up the phone and call and
said, "This is our new address and phone number" so
that they could be picked up locally. I mean in an inpatient
unit for an extended period of time. If they are in
a Cult from their area and they are still being monitored
and messed with, my own personal opinion is we can't
get them well and can't offer more than humanitarian
caring and supportiveness.
Lots
of therapists do not like to hear that. That's my opinion.
I believe that if somehow they're lucky enough to be
wealthy enough to have protection, to have somehow gotten
away in some way and we can work with them without being
messed with, that they have a chance to reach some semblance
of normality and livability with enough intensive work.
My own personal belief is I don't think anybody with
this kind of programming is well in this country yet.
There are some who are well along the way. I've got
a couple who are well along in their work and have done
a tremendous amount, but they're clearly not well yet.
Q:
Could you speculate on the relationship between this
stuff and the fantasy games that have been proliferating,
Dungeons and Dragons and that sort of thing?
Dr.H:
Well, there are a lot of things out there to cue people.
You want to see a great movie, interesting movie, to
cue people? Go see "Trancers II." You can rent it in
your video shop. Came out last fall. One night in sheer
desperation for something at the video store, you know?
Nine o'clock on Friday night. Everything's gone. I rented
a couple of movies and one of them is that. Fascinating.
They're talking about Green World Order. Yes, "Trancers
II." And who is the production company? Full Moon Productions.
I couldn't see much cuing in "Trancers I," but who's
the production company in "Trancers I"? Alter Productions.
There are lots of things around that are cuing.
There's
an interesting person in the late sixties who talked
about the Illuminati. Have any of you ever heard of
the Illuminati with regard to the Cult? Had a patient
bring that up to me just about exactly two years ago.
We've now had other stuff come out from other patients.
Appears to be the name of the international world leadership.
There appear to be Illuminatic Counsels in several parts
of the world and one internationally. The name of the
international leadership of the Cult supposedly. Is
this true? well, I don't know. It's interesting we're
getting some people who are trying to work without cuing
who are saying some very similar things. There was an
old guy in Hollywood in the late sixties who talked
about the infiltration of Hollywood by the Illuminati.
Certainly
what some patients have said is all of this spook stuff,
horror stuff, possession and everything else that's
been popularized in the last twenty years in Hollywood
is in order to soften up the public so that when a Satanic
world order takes over, everyone will have been desensitized
to so many of these things, plus to continually cue
lots of people out there. is that true?
Well,
I can't definitely tell you that it is. What I can say
is I now believe that ritual-abuse programming is
widespread, is systematic, is very organized from highly
esoteric information which is published nowhere, has
not been on any book or talk show, that we have found
all around this country and at least one foreign country.
Let's take a couple of quick questions and we need to
get on to other material. Yes?
Q:
Do you have any techniques for decreasing your level
of uncertainty that a patient is or is not being still
tampered with, "messed with," as you said?
Dr.H:
Just that I would ask several of the parts I've inquired
about, Core, Diana, Wisdom, Master Programmer, several
parts inside I would ask about these sorts of things
and I will keep asking it. As you do additional work
and get a bit further, I would ask again to find out.
In the back?
Q:
I wonder if you've heard or you know of the Martin Luther
Bloodline?
Dr.H:
The what?
Q:
Martin Luther Bloodline?
Dr.H:
I know nothing about Martin Luther Bloodline. I'll give
you one other quick tip. Ask him about an identification
code. There's an identification code that people
have. It will involve their birth date. It may involve
places where they were programmed and it will usually
involve a number in there that will be their birth order,
like zero-two if they were second-born. It will usually
involve a number that represents the number of generations
in the Cult, if they are bloodlines. I've seen up to
twelve now, twelve generations.
Q:
I have seen a lot of the things you've been describing
today in several patients. I wanted to ask you a question
about the Seven Systems. You mentioned something about
systems here. Are there Seven Systems?
Dr.H:
There has been that described in some patients, yes,
the Seven Systems.
Q:
Could you say what that is or a little diagram?
Dr.H:
I don't think we know enough to know what it is, honestly.
I think it may have to do with Seven Cabalistic Trees.
Q:
Have you ever had any evidence where any of these people
have been tagged and there have been anything of their
body- parts that might be related to this, private parts
in particular?
Dr.H:
Well, there are certainly people that have had tattoos,
that have had a variety of other kinds of things, some
of which have been, you know, documented in cases, but
I mean to say, well, maybe they did that to themselves
or had it done consciously to really prove something,
not that occurs to right off the bat. Let me just take
this one last question back and we need to go on to
other material because we're never going to get through
it all. I'll just ask you to hold your question.
Q:
It's not a question but I wanted to say for myself,
personally, and perhaps for others here as well, I wanted
to thank you very sincerely for taking this time to
come forward.
[Applause]
Dr.H:
Well...
[Applause]
Q:
Does anyone want to join us for a standing ovation for
this material? It's wonderful.
[Sustained
applause]
Dr.H:
A dear friend who's one of the top people in the field,
who I know has had death threats, but I know struggled
for professional credibility in believing in MPD and
was harshly criticized for even believing in that ten
and fifteen years ago, and struggled to a point of professional
credibility. I think in his heart of hearts he knows
it's true, but he will say things like, "I wouldn't
be surprised to find tomorrow it was an international
conspiracy and I wouldn't be surprised to find tomorrow
that it is an urban myth and rumor."
He
tries to stay right on the fence and the reason is because
it's controversial, because there is a campaign underway
saying these all false memories induced by, along with
incest and everything else, by "Oprah" and by books
like "The Courage to Heal" and by naive therapists using
hypnosis. It's controversial.
My
personal opinion has come to be if they're going to
kill me, they're going to kill me. There's going to
be an awful lot of information that's been put away
that'll go to investigative reporters and multiple investigative
agencies, if it happens, and an awful lot of people
like you , I hope, that if I ever have an accident will
be pushing for a very large-scale investigation. I think
we have to stand up as some kind of moral conscience
at some point and I tried to wait until we had gotten
enough verification from independent places to have
some real confidence that this was widespread. I know
we've gone like a house afire to try to pack as much
as I could in for you. I hope it's given you some things
to think about and some new ideas and I appreciate being
with you.
[Long
sustained applause]
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