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In our latest podcast, we discuss one of the more interesting cases of "Spirit Release Therapy" (SRT) from the early days of the Cassiopaean Experiment with Laura Knight-Jadczyk. Laura describes a real-life exorcism she conducted during her years as a hypontherapist, complete with audio clips from the session itself. This is our more most hair-raising podcast yet! (Part 2 of 2)

Running Time: 00:33:07

Download: MP3

Here's the transcript of the show:

This is Radio Free Signs of the Times, broadcasting into the heart of occupied America.

Henry: This is the second part of Laura's story of the spirit releasement therapy that became something else.

Laura (on tape): We ask the healing angels of light to heal at this time. Surround him with the ...

Demon (on tape): Why is this one so important to you?

Laura: Well, obviously ...

Joe: That was like a "wait a minute" moment! Did someone say something?

Laura: Yeah, I guess so! I guess the pressure - actually, I think ...

Joe: You had your coat on at this stage!

Laura: I was heading for the door, yeah! Yeah, it was kind of a little surprise that he jumps out there so strong at that point. But I guess what was happening was that he was getting irritated because I was, you know, continuing to exert this effort, this energy, because, you know, as I said, it's not so much, I don't think, that there are literally angels or workers or whatever. I think that what it is, is the energy of the exorcist. And I was continuing to put energy into this situation, and I think that energy was becoming quite irritating to whoever or whatever it was. Either that or he was becoming extremely bored listening to Baldwin's dialogue over and over again.

Laura (on tape): In the name of the Light I call on the divine Mother to enfold this one in the light and love. Touch into his pure heart. Restore the beauty of this one's sweet being, the essence of this child of God. Archangel Michael, we ask that you send in your most powerful warriors. We call upon all the workers who can come to assist in this work to come and clean and cleanse. And we ask in the name of the Light ...

Laura: At this point I've asked for everybody to come, and my voice is sounding just a little more, you know, tense, and that's because at this point the physical activity was increasing, you know, dramatically - the serpentine slide across the floor was very pronounced, the rippling of the muscles, the swelling and contraction of the abdomen, accompanied by expulsions of gas, and it was a little bit on the odoriferous side - and I can tell you, it was not the odour of sanctity!

So I was thinking that, you know, this is getting a little bit creepy, because I didn't know whether this guy was going to suddenly jump up off the floor there, and jump on me and start strangling me, or something - and I was getting a little nervous because there I was, sitting there, all alone, in this room - this building - with two people under hypnosis, and the only other - and the one of them that could have helped me, if it had been possible, was of course, you know, as zonked as the one who might attack me. And I was thinking, 'I really have to stop doing this!'.

Henry: Were you getting any reports from your viewer that the hosts, the heavenly hosts, were arriving? Or ...

Laura: Well, no ...

Henry: Or were they avoiding this one?

Laura: No, he was being pretty silent at this point. His job was supposed to be just to generate light, and focus on creating light and surrounding the individual with light, and to maintain that during the process. So he was supposedly doing that, and I hope he wasn't falling down on the job, but I couldn't guarantee it!

Laura (on tape): I call to the dark one: Are you still there?

Demon (on tape): [unintelligible]

Laura (on tape): What allowed you to come and be with Victor? What was he doing when you came?

Demon (on tape): This one is mine.

Laura (on tape): What was he doing that made him weak, and allowed you to come?

Demon (on tape): Simple fear.

Laura (on tape): Simple fear? And who sent you?

Demon (on tape): His past is what sends me. From childhood to adulthood.

Laura (on tape): And what happens if you fail?

Demon (on tape): I want this one's soul apart.

Laura (on tape): Well, why don't you go into the light?

Laura: Please! Now that was indeed rather lame, but at this point, when you're having a conversation with, you know, what is ostensibly a demon, you know, you're often at a loss for words, I admit. So I was ...

Henry: I can't imagine you being in a position ...

Laura: So I was kind of winging it at this point, because none of the formulas was working, and it was time to do a little improvisation, and I decided, you know, well, while I'm here I might as well, you know, get some information. You know, why waste the opportunity? So I was going to ask some questions.

Laura (on tape): Are you afraid of the light?

Demon (on tape): Afraid? No, but I guess that he is.

Laura (on tape): Well, you must be afraid of the light because you don't want it. Did you ever have a body of your own?

Demon (on tape): In a sense.

Laura (on tape): Were you ever in a human body as a human?

Demon (on tape): You could say a one time-shared.

Laura: A time share! God! Now ...

Henry: I think I've known some people like that!

Laura: Now, you've noticed that we're laughing a lot here, because, you know, you've got to whistle past the graveyard, because some of this stuff is just really too, too creepy. And ...

Henry: But a demon that comes up and you say, 'Have you ever been in a body before?', and he says, 'Well, you know, you could say that: a time-share.' I mean this is really weird! What do you say?

Laura: Well, the thing was, was that what I was going to start doing at this point, was I was going to start working on a little differential diagnosis - you know, find out some details. I wanted to find out, you know, who, what, where, when - you know, and , you know, as you'll see, it didn't go very far.

Laura (on tape): What was the last body you were in?

Demon (on tape): His father.

Laura (on tape): Well?

Demon (on tape): He was so easy prey.

Laura (on tape): Right ...

Demon (on tape): This one does bring me distance.

Laura (on tape): Well, I want you to try something. I have a simple little experiment to prove something to you - to prove ...

Henry: Before we get to the little experiment, he brings up the subject's father. What did you learn from the discussions about the father? And you said that the father was easy prey. Was the father a kind of unassuming person? Or ...

Laura: I understand he was an alcoholic, and this was only afterward. Because, of course, when he was wanting me to do the hypnotherapy, it seemed that this particular subject didn't tell me everything that I really needed to know; he wasn't sincere and honest with me in his pre-therapeutic interviews. Because afterward he explained to me that, you know, his childhood hadn't been so blissfully happy as he had presented it - that his father had been an alcoholic, and had beat up on his mother, and - in alcoholic rages, and so forth - and even at one point, I understand, had pulled a gun out and had threatened to shoot the mother, and had threatened to shoot him when he was a child. So, that ...

Henry: Would that have been twelve years before, when he was ...

Laura: It probably was, and it certainly explained a lot. And I was really unhappy that he hadn't told me this in advance, because if he had, I wouldn't have been sitting there with him under hypnosis. It wouldn't have happened.

Henry: Yeah.

Laura: So, I mean, that was another one of the reasons why, you know, I say that I stopped taking any - any - subjects at all that I didn't know extremely well and for a long time, and know a lot about their background. Because, you know, he came to me and he lied to me.

Henry: Yeah.

Laura: And he lied to me probably because he was just feeling desperate to get, you know, get something that he thought was going to be a quick fix for his problems. And he had no idea that, you know, that that's simply not therapeutically sound, you know, for this kind of work.

Henry: Well let's continue.

Laura (on tape): A little experiment to prove something to you.

Demon (on tape): To prove? This will be very interesting.

Laura (on tape): Look deep inside yourself. What do you see there?

Demon (on tape): You're very good.

Laura (on tape): See that little pinpoint of light?

Demon (on tape): No!

Laura (on tape): You, yourself, have light.

Demon (on tape): No.

Laura (on tape): Yes.

Demon (on tape): How do I know you're not putting it there?

Laura (on tape): I'm not putting it there. It's yours. Have you noticed what happens when you continue to look at it?

Demon (on tape): Do not increase it.

Laura (on tape): It gets bigger because you're looking at it. Keep looking at it.

Demon (on tape): I choose not to look.

Laura (on tape): Why? Are you afraid of it?

Demon (on tape): I like where I'm at. This one needs me in one sense.

Laura (on tape): And what is that sense?

Demon (on tape): Because unfortunately this one has a heart - something he doesn't need.

Laura: You know, this is kind of an interesting little part of the session, because on the one hand you can see that what I was doing - my little tactic of trying to get him to look inside himself, and to see that there was some element of light within him - unnerved him a little bit, and that the fact that he was unnerved gave me a little more confidence that I could deal effectively with whoever or whatever it was. The other interesting thing was when he said that this one needs me in a certain sense, because he has a heart, and a heart that he doesn't need.

So that suggests that the aim, the purpose, of the presence of the being, of the entity - if such it was - was to consume that heart, or to encase it, or enclose it, or take it in some way - to take the heart, to take the creativity out of him. And of course, you know, I wonder now in retrospect if the heart may have been what was in the box; but I don't really think so - I think that what was in the box was the will.

Demon (on tape): Please help me by asking him if he has gone through. Most unfortunate, this horror. Fortunate for me, though.

Laura (on tape): Well, the light in you is getting bigger.

Demon (on tape): Counsellor Adams ...

Laura (on tape): Did somebody tell you the light would burn you?

Demon (on tape): It's going to take more than a mere light to get rid of this one.

Laura (on tape): What is the price of failure if you can't keep him?

Demon (on tape): There's always one other.

Laura (on tape): But what would those who sent you say to you? Will they not destroy you?

Demon (on tape): Not with the other.

Laura (on tape): And what is the other?

Demon (on tape): Ooh, that would be telling. But this one is more beyond reach than what he is. As a matter of fact, this one made it far much easier in a sense for me to dominate him.

Laura: Now at this point I have to say that I was having a little less confidence that I was going to be able to dislodge whatever this was. So I was launching into a more or less set-up for a post-hypnotic suggestion that the activity of the light and so forth would continue within the individual, even after the session was over, and that at some point during, you know, the next few days, or whatever, that whoever or whatever it was would reconcile itself to being banished and would leave. The remarks that it made about someone else who had made it much easier to dominate the subject, I believe referred to his girlfriend, although that was never explicitly stated.

Demon (on tape): There are many rooms that he has in here.

Laura (on tape): There is no place that they cannot find you.

Demon (on tape): [unintelligible]

Laura (on tape): And warrior angels.

Demon (on tape): Where's your God?

Laura (on tape): He's your God, too. There's a part of you - a part of him in you. That's what that light is.

Demon (on tape): (unimpressed) Hm!

Laura (on tape): The light is inside you and it's growing bigger. You're being transformed by it. [crash]

Demon (on tape): You counsellor me - very difficult.

Laura (on tape): Why don't you just leave?

Demon (on tape): [...] all the years, it's fun here. So much to do, so little time.

Laura (on tape): I see them binding coming out of that light.

Demon (on tape): [...] energy.

Laura (on tape): Bind him in light. Dear Heavenly Father ...

Joe: So what was that crashing noise?

Laura: What was the crashing noise? Well, as you were hearing these sounds, you were - he was oozing across the floor like a serpent, and at that point he had knocked into the table where the tape-recorder was standing - nearly knocked it over - and then his head bumped into the leg of the six-foot sofa on which a 200-pound man was lying, which he then reached up over his head, you know, behind his head, with one hand - and this is a very small guy, by the way - and with one hand he lifted, grasping this one leg of the sofa, he lifted it into the air.

And those are the creaking, cracking sounds you hear - the sofa being lifted into the air, and my viewer nearly being dumped off of it on his head. So, things were getting just a little bit hairy at this point, and I want to point out that what seemed to be the thing that was causing the most discomfort for this thing was Light - was, you know, increasing the light, visualising light, surrounding with light, and generally, you know, just talking about light.

Laura (on tape): In the name of the Christ we ask that the archangel Michael and his warrior angels bind this [...] In the name and the counsel of Light, bind him and take him away! In the name of the Light and the Christ, I command you! Christ commands you. Archangel Michael commands you. Bind him in an impervious capsule of light and take him away.

Demon (on tape): No-ooo!

Laura (on tape): Begone!

Laura: Well, at this point ...

Joe: At that point, it seems to me that you had a choice: you either get up and run out of the room very quickly - or you up the ante, you know, and obviously that's what you did in terms of raising your voice ...

Laura: Yeah, yeah, at that point, you know, after the little thing with the sofa being lifted in the air, and the table, and the extreme serpentine movements, and the rippling body parts and so forth, I was, you know, I was getting a little concerned. And what actually happened was I realised at that moment that this was going to take something just a little bit more than the ordinary formula. And I actually got angry - I mean, you know, that's in my voice: I was angry. And I was angry that this thing was, you know, persisting, in its slimy, devious, manipulative, repellent insistence on taking over this poor guy's life.

So when I got angry it was a strange sensation because at that moment it felt like, you know, something like I was struck by a bolt of lightning myself, and that was when I began shouting, and exerting a very powerful will of my own that, you know, you are not going to win, I am going to win, because, you know, quite frankly, I'm tired of this playing around, you know, I'm telling you to leave, you're saying you don't want to leave, but I ain't gonna quit, give up, and I'm not quitting, and that's just all there is to it, so you might just as well face the fact that I'm not gonna quit - and with the words came that, came the will, and - that seemed to be it. Because, you heard the scream as it left, and even though it isn't quite as remarkable as it was in real time, the actual sound of the voice - the locus of the voice - travelled across the room to the door, and went through the door. And it, I mean, you can sort of hear it moving on the tape itself - I mean, let's play it one more time just to hear that.

Laura (on tape): Archangel Michael commands you. Bind him in an impervious capsule of light and take him away.

Laura: Here it comes ...

Demon (on tape): No-ooo!

Laura (on tape): Begone!

Joe: And I notice you helped it on its way there with a ...

Laura: Yeah, I was definitely helping it on its way.

Joe: You were making sure!

Laura: I was shoving it out the door!

Joe: Kick!

Laura: Swift kick out the door - exactly right! So, that was that, and the interesting thing about it is that that encounter, you know, it took something out of me, and it was unnerving in many respects. It's not certainly as dramatic as something that you see in the movies, such as The Exorcist or, you know, the pea soup thing, but it was certainly, in its own way, compelling and convincing, that I was, you know, dealing with something that was purely negative, purely evil - and that was very disconcerting. And the curious after-effects were that, you know, for approximately six months I was psychically wounded, I guess you'd say, because up to that point in time I was fairly convinced that the only kinds of attachments that people really have are like your basic dead dude, or maybe like an elemental spirit that has never really occupied a body of its own, but it's like an - you know, I would think of them as like energy globules, or little energy patterns, and they had a form of partial consciousness, but not sufficient consciousness or energy to occupy or animate a body.

And here I was looking at something that was clearly much more than that - and that was something that really didn't fit into my belief system. I thought that if you, and you'll notice that I was talking about this, you know, to this entity, you know, that you're being transformed by the light. Well, clearly, there was no possibility of this thing being transformed by the light. It simply, absolutely, wanted nothing to do with the light, and when the light was increased sufficiently, it left, it fled.

Henry: Well, we talked earlier about the door and the covering of ice, and I think we've talked about this before with us; you've talked about the kind of physical sensations that you were feeling in the presence of it.

Laura: Hm-hm. Yeah, that was a big part of it, so that even when I listen to it again, it has an effect on me. As much as we laugh about it - and, you know, laughing kind of relieves the tension of it - because there's no way, there are no words, really to describe the sensations of being in the presence of this thing. I've played the recording and it, you know, it has certain sounds, certain effects, but nothing can really convey or express the, you know, what I would almost say is the taste of it. Because it had a certain taste, and the taste was so repellent, so - it kind of like ate into your soul. You know what I mean? That's the only thing I can say, is that it ate into me.

Joe: All of what you're saying is kind of corroborated by the various writings on exorcism - probably most notably Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil.

Laura: Yes.

Joe: When he talks about the presence, and the effects on the priests that were involved in these exorcisms and stuff, so ...

Laura: Yes, because the one profound thing you become aware of is that there are obviously beings that choose darkness. They choose it. It's not an accident; it's not because they're misguided. It's not any of those things, and it's not that you convert them or change them. This is their choice. And, horrible as it may sound, they have a right to that choice, in the grand scheme of things, in the realm of creation - you know, all things are permissible, all things are possible.

Joe: It kind of also dispels the myth that I think a lot of people have in terms of how these exorcisms or spirit release are done in that, even in the transcript there that we've been listening to you talk of the angels of light coming to take this entity away. A lot of people, particularly in the New Age community, with Reiki and stuff, would - are under the impression that this is just a matter of calling in these armies of light and they'll do the work for you. But from what you're saying it's obviously, really it's just a battle of wills between the person doing it and the entity. And, as you're saying, the effects - the after-effects - would tend to prove that.

Laura: Yeah, it was obvious that the formula wasn't working, and the so-called "angels of light" and so forth that Bill Baldwin had created in his little scenarios weren't working, and it came down in the end to just absolutely my will against the will of this thing. And I wasn't going to let it stay, and that was just really all there was to it. So ...

Joe: I have to tell you, there's no assurances that you're going to win. Anybody who thinks that they can engage in this with an assurance that they're going to win because they're on the side of light maybe needs to think twice.

Laura: Well, sure! Well, sure - because, you know, what if it had been bigger and meaner than I was, you know?

Joe: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: I mean, that's a pretty awful thought, because at that point, you know, things could have gone any number of ways. And, you know, so, I would say that anybody who thinks that they want to engage in this kind of work, and deal with any kind of people that come in off the street, so to speak, that, you know, get yourself a copy of Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil and read it, you know - and if that doesn't ...

Henry: That is one of ...

Joe: Did you get through it all?

Henry: ... the scariest books.

Laura: Yeah, it is.

Joe: You only need - there are five stories, and you only need to read one or two of them!

Henry: If you can make it through all five, let us know!

Laura: I made it through all five; it took a long time because you can only read so much of it at a time without having to really just stop and recuperate. And then when you finally, you know, face something that is probably, you know, one-tenth, or one-twentieth, the magnitude of what Martin was talking about in these cases that he's written about in his book Hostage to the Devil, then you realise that there's some things out there, there are entities of great power and great darkness, and they never sleep - and you ain't as smart as they are. And don't ever forget it. And anybody who walks through that door, you know, who comes to you and says, "Oh, I just have a little problem with self-esteem," you know, could have one of those hanging around there at the end of a long grey cord, and, when you reel 'em in, you just don't know what you're dealing with.

Joe: So, don't try this at home, folks.

Laura: Yeah, don't try this at home, folks. And ...

Joe: And if you do, we want to issue a disclaimer right now, that whatever happens, it's got nothing to do with us!

Laura: And don't call me for an exorcism. I'm not doing another! So the bottom line of all this is that once you have tasted this evil, it actually in a sense gives you a great protection, because you can never again be in the presence of it without being aware of it - even if it's concealed. You still, you know, once - it's like once you've smelled a skunk, you know what a skunk smells like. And a skunk smells like, I mean, it is a totally unique thing. And any of you who have ever smelled a skunk know exactly what I'm talking about - and if you ever smell even the tiniest little whiff that is, you know, 25 miles away, you know that's a skunk. And you can smell it, and you can taste it. And if you're ever in its presence again, you know it, you're aware of it.

And this is essential, this is crucial, inoculation against the forces of darkness - to be aware of them, to know what they are, to know how they operate - because only then can you protect yourself from their deceptions. Because they certainly do not present themselves as darkness, and they certainly, you know, they don't look bad or present themselves negatively - they're usually very charming, and very often they present themselves as angels of light.

Joe: But thankfully, people don't have to engage in their own exorcisms to get this kind of awareness, because, basically, the kind of information that was given here today, you know, can protect people by proxy, as it were, just by realising, as you're saying, that these things exist, and to take that seriously.

Laura: More ordinary people, you know, the public, should be allowed to listen in on some of these things, so that they can have an idea of just exactly, you know, what goes on, what transpires. And I think next week we're going to look at a couple of other sessions - you know, we've got some alien abduction regression sessions that have some very, very interesting segments in them that I think - that will definitely change your view of that phenomenon to a great extent, if you have any idea that aliens that abduct people are nice and friendly, and cute little grey guys that look deep into your eyes, and make you feel love and all that sort of thing.

Joe: We just need a home.

Laura: Yeah!

Joe: Inside you!

Laura: Yeah! So I think that's about enough for tonight. I've had all I can stand. How about you guys?

Henry: Come back next week, when you'll hear the story of the praying mantis and the little girl.