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Today on the Health and Wellness show we'll be discussing medicinal herbs - various applications for different herbs, benefits, warnings and interactions.

The pet health segment will be discussing a biogenic stimulator developed by a Russian scientist. It's going to be an interesting show! Tune in weekly at 10am EST on Fridays.

Running Time: 02:11:00

Download: MP3


Here's the transcript of the show:

Jonathan: Welcome everybody, my name is Johnathan and I'll be your host for today. Joining me here in the studio from all over the planet are Tiffany, Doug, Erykah and Gaby so we have a full crew today.

All: Hellos

Jonathan: Todays topic is medicinal herbs and we have some interesting things to go over; we are going to talk about anti-inflammatory herbs, stuff for the liver and kidneys, cancer fighting herbs, anti-bacterial herbs, we've got a big list here so we will try to keep it light and cover the essential information and give you some tips about what to look up if you are looking for herbs to treat various conditions.

We should say that the stuff that we discuss here on the show is not meant to constitute medical advice. If you need medical advice you should consult your practitioner. We are here to give you clues and guide you in the right direction and have a discussion about these topics; we are not trying to pose as your doctor.

Let's start off here with some general topics from the week. We have some articles to go over, Tiffany do you want to get us started with that?

Tiffany: This is an article posted on SOTT called, Lemongrass essential oil: A useful addition to your first aid kit written by Gaye Levy. I thought that lemongrass was just something that you find in cooking, like if you went to an Asian fusion restaurant but apparently it's not! [Laughter]

You can use the essential oil of lemongrass in your first aid kit, it's been used to treat fevers, inflammation, indigestion and it also acts as a sedative. It's also used for purification and odour control, not just for the environment but for yourself as well so if you have a case of BO rub some lemongrass under either armpit for that. [Laughter]

Lemongrass has antimicrobial, anti-inflammatory, anti-bacterial and analgesic properties so it's good for relieving pain. In the article the doctor lists 23 uses for lemongrass - and that's the thing about these herbs is that it's not just good for one thing, there's so many things you can use them for so here's some of them: Muscle and tendon relaxer, it's good for relieving headaches, arthritic joint pain, pulled muscles, wounds, heart burn, sprains and sports injuries, fever reduction, it acts as a flea and insect repellent, it's good for acne, athletes foot, oily skin, stress relief, it reduces high blood pressure, it's good for water retention and it also helps with insomnia.

An important thing to remember about the lemongrass oil or with any essential oil is that you should always dilute it before applying it to your skin. You should always pair it with a carrier oil like coconut oil or any other oil of your choice and do a little skin test just to see how your skin will react to it because some people are more sensitive to herbs than other people.

Some herbs like lemongrass can be ingested but you want to make sure that you have the very highest quality and you should also always do your research and consult an herbalist when necessary. So that's lemongrass.

Jonathan: That's a good point about diluting it and making sure that you don't have any reactions. I've had some personal experience with that and I think other people here have as well. Oil of oregano caused a big problem for me, I just took too much of it internally and caused kind of a mess of a herxheimer reaction for a little while.

Tiffany: What did you take it for?

Jonathan: I was trying to do an anti-fungal regime but to be quite honest I was being stupid about it and I didn't do much full and proper due diligence on how much I should take and in combination with picking iodine and I put oil of oregano on top of that and I think it just basically killed out all of my gut flora. I had a massive, massive reaction that lasted about a month.

Doug: Yeah, oil of oregano is very, very powerful. It will kill off your good bacteria as well as your bad bacteria. I usually recommend only doing it for a couple of weeks at a time. I know that some people like to do oil of oregano preventatively but it's just too strong. It kills off too much of your good bacteria as well so I always tell people to stick to 2 - 3 weeks at the most.

Gaby: I always thought that I was allergic to that stuff because I would have rashes and high fevers and symptoms and that made me think that maybe it was a die off reaction.

Jonathan: Could have been.

Tiffany: That's a good cautionary tale, with all herbs and with anything that you take for medicinal purposes, you have to make sure that you are using the right dose, the right type, the right method of delivery whether it's through your skin or orally or as a compress or tincture or whatever. Just be careful, just because they're natural doesn't mean they are always good to be used for prolonged periods.

Doug: Another thing too, is I get a lot of questions about interactions with pharmaceutical medications because some people will try to do things like help their problem more by adding a natural remedy in with the pharmaceutical that they were prescribed. You have to be very careful with that because there are definitely interactions that can happen there. You always want to talk to somebody whether that be a naturopath or a doctor; doctors don't tend to know too much about herbs and will usually say don't do them altogether.

Gaby: Except for me!

Doug: Except for Gaby. Pharmacists actually tend to know a lot about interactions too so talking to a pharmacist might be a good idea to find out about that.

Gaby: I find there is a lot of black and white thinking. People who know all these pharmaceuticals know by now if they have these dangerous side effects and they want to drug you up immediately, like yesterday. It's like ok wait up there, if it goes there, watch how it changes. Experimenting first with herbs and supplements and then slowly but surely move to drugs.

Tiffany: At the very least you should get a few good books on herbs and how they're used and how to use them before you jump into anything. Speaking of which does anybody know of any good herb books that they know out at the library?

Doug: Actually in my research today I found a really good book called Herbal Medicine Healing and Cancer by Donald R. Yance. He is a registered herbalist and MD and he had some excellent information about using herbs for treating cancer both if you are going through chemo and radiation or if you are not and foregoing those things altogether. A really excellent book as far as treating cancer goes.

Gaby: I personally bought an encyclopaedia of herbal medicine and cleanse with photographs from my local area so I could learn how to recognise them and how to use them. So that's useful too.

Jonathan: These is also a good book called The Complete Herbal by Nicholas Culpeper, you can find that on amazon.com.

Doug: Another good one called, The Yoga of Herbs and Vasant Lad is the name of the author of that one, he is an Ayurvedic practitioner; Ayurveda is an ancient Indian medicinal system. So that's a really good one to get some good Ayurvidic herbs to use. Not so much local herbs, a lot of the Ayurvedic stuff you will only find in India and Asia but in this day and age we can find these things in a variety of different health food stores so that's another good book.

Jonathan: Not to digress too much but just for our listeners who might not be aware, what exactly is Ayurvedic? People might not have heard that term.

Doug: It's an ancient Indian medicinal system, traditional Chinese medicine actually spawned off of it; there are a lot of parallels there. It uses a lot of different methods, herbs being one of them and there is different cleansing and detoxification methods that they use. Some of it gets kind of wacky like if you look in the old Ayurvedic stuff they do talk about things like blood-letting and things like that and I think you really need to think about that a little bit harder before you start doing anything with it.

It's a very interesting system, I don't put stock in it completely but certainly things like the herbal components of it are definitely interesting and worth checking out.

Gaby: I once read than in Ayurvedic medicine the tinctures or oils were contaminated with heavy metals. Do you know something about that and do we have to be wary about that?

Doug: I think that's a good point with any kind of herbal medicine. I think that it's a good idea to find out where exactly that it's coming from because some of the stuff coming out of China or stuff where you don't have a good idea of where it's coming from. Don't be afraid to contact the company and ask them where their stuff is coming from; ask them if they have done any testing on it to see.

That's a concern with a number of different herbs and remedies is that sometimes people are just getting this really cheap stuff, buying it in bulk from dodgy distributers and just bottling it and putting it on the shelf so it is a good idea to check. There are reputable companies out there so doing some research on that is a good idea.

Erykah: Just a little bit of background, Ayurveda means the science of life; ayur meaning life and veda meaning knowledge of and they call it the sister science to yoga and it's one of the oldest medicines practiced. I agree completely with Doug, there is something that is so hinky about it. They go on the Ayurvedic life system and they have different dosha or too much water in the body or too much fire in the body and then they treat your symptoms based on that. It's a pretty in depth topic if people are interested. I think we've carried articles on SOTT.

Jonathan: Continuing on in our recap of some of these items from the news, Gaby it looks like you have something to talk about; the risk associated with heartburn drugs.

Gaby: Yes, this was an article published by Dr. Mercola called, Risk Associated with Heartburn Drugs Outweigh the Benefits which was very logical and had some obvious facts from the beginning. He describes how 20 million Americans are currently taking these drugs and they are called proton pump inhibitors; called PPIs for short. The brand made in America are; Nexium, Prilosec, and Prevacid. I'm not really sure how to pronounce these because in the rest of the world we use the generic names which are esomeprazole and lansoprazole and so forth.

Just so give you an idea, when I was in med school in the 90's all doctors were forbidden to prescribe these drugs. The way you will prescribe these drugs is usually in a hospital setting you will seek the gastroenterologist and you will present him the case and you will say I really need this drug for the patent and depending on his medical criteria he will allow it. He will make a prescription and then you will be able to get that drug for the patent. It was usually just for one week or two weeks at the most. People have to remember that these drugs were never manufactured to treat heartburn. It was manufactured to treat extremely rare conditions where there was a lot of acidity. Zollinger-Ellison syndrome which is a condition where there is excess acid production. Also there were ulcers made out of stress, people with a lot of burns or 50% superficial burns in the chest or stomach ulcers out of stress; conditions like these.

This was in the 90's then medical system got relaxed and a lot of people got heartburn, usually from a very common diet, eating lots of carbs, food and toxic stuff, that's typically the thing that caused heartburn. Nowadays you can even get these drugs from your neighbor. It's like "do you have...?" "Yes I do here!" [Laughter]

Tiffany: We could get them over the counter. I mean that's what doctors and customers are demanding nowadays.

Gaby: Without a prescription which shouldn't be the case because you really, really need stomach acid. It's very, very good for you, it helps you digest your food, and certain nutrients, it's your first line of defense against pathological bacteria or food toxicity. As we age, especially if we eat lots of carbs, gluten and toxic stuff we stop producing stomach acid; you have hypochlorhydria which is low stomach acidity. So food doesn't get properly digested and it stagnates in your stomach this is when there is a reflux from the stomach contents eats through the esophagus and that produces heartburn.

These drugs may cause temporary relief but in the long term it really makes everything worse. This is one story, the other story is that people who started these drugs in the 90's over medicate as they have been taking it every single day. The results are in, there are studies which show that these drugs are related with pneumonia in the elderly, osteoporosis, more hip fractures, more infections of everything and vitamin deficiencies - for example B12 deficiency which can lead to depression and so forth. There is also an increased risk of heart attack related with these drugs. The results can prove catastrophic.

Even in mainstream medicine - this is known in mainstream medicine - you cannot prescribe these drugs any more. Just for a week or two weeks at the most but only people with a very special criteria are allowed to have them and other people, sorry you just have to change your diet or take natural remedies or something more intuitive.

Dr. Mercola covers the same experience I had. This is a very good article because he argues that nowadays the most severe acid reflux cases when you will think the drug is properly prescribed has to do with helicobacter pylori infection which is a bacteria which he argues naturally lives in our stomach but only when we have low stomach acidity or when we are eating toxic stuff which creates a gut flora imbalance and then it creates disease. Also there's hiatal hernia which is also related to a bad diet.

I remember we carried an article in the Spanish SOTT because here in Spain these drugs are called the protective stomach drug, with protective as the key word so people thought that they truly protected your stomach. So we carried an article saying "The protective drug that destroys your health". It was a complete success in the sense that it got shared so much and there are thousands and thousands of emails and we will still get them about that article. Personal emails like "oh help, how do I get off these drugs?"

Doug: I was just going to say that getting off these drugs is actually a really difficult thing to do because what you are essentially doing is shutting down your stomach acid production. So, trying to get back to a natural stomach acid production, after you have been shutting it down for a long period of time is very, very difficult to do. I encounter a lot of people who are trying to get off of them drugs and they are just having a hell of a time trying to digest anything.

You stop these drugs and all of a sudden your stomach is expected to just bounce back and start making stomach acid like it always did and digesting things normally but it's a difficult thing to do. I think it is a very good warning to try and stay away from these things.

Tiffany: I had a friend years ago and I think he was taking Nexium or lansoprazole and it was very expensive and he was still having heartburn and it really didn't work so I was reading up about apple cider vinegar and told him to take a tablespoon or two of that with water before he eats and it stopped and he didn't have to take a little purple pill any more. He wasn't on a keto diet, he was still eating gluten and carbs and everything but it still worked.

Gaby: Apple cider vinegar actually enhances stomach acid and to most people it sounds counter intuitive but what you need is more stomach so it can digest food properly so it can flow again finally and it will not cause reflux and heartburn. It really breaks my heart to see how the elderly are overprescribed with these drugs when for sure an elderly person has low stomach acidity period and he or she will need more stomach acid.

There are several herbal remedies to provide temporary relief but also to enhance stomach acid safely. One is apple cider vinegar; the other way is to take supplements is to try hydrochloric acid as a supplement that you can take. For temporary relief - baking soda, it's like a folk remedy. Also aloe juice, from the aloe vera plant helps reduce inflammation and the symptoms of reflux, ginger root, as it has real protective effects by blocking acid and suppressing the pathological effects of the helicobacter pylori, the bacteria that causes reflux. In some studies it has proven to be far superior to lansoprazole, one of the best heartburn drugs on the market in preventing the formation of ulcers. It actually has an eight fold rate of potency over the drug without the side effects of this drug. So, ginger root is a very good option.

Also optimizing your levels of vitamin D; because it optimizes your production of about 200 antimicrobial peptides that help your body eradicate an infection including the pathological effects of helicobacter pylori. Astaxanthin is another remedy that helps to reduce the acid reflux, slippery elm which coats the mouth, throat, stomach and intestine. It helps inflammatory bowel condition and increases mucus production and this protects the gastrointestinal tract against ulcers and excess acidity.

Glutamine is another supplement that helps counteract the damage produced by helicobacter pylori, vitamin B and folate or folic acid, has also been reported to reduce the risk of acid reflux. Higher folic acid intake was found to reduce reflux by approximately 40% so these supplements have better results than these drugs without the side effects. Even the supplements containing melatonin, l-tryptophan, vitamin B6, folic acid, vitamin B12, methionine, and betaine has shown to be far superior to omeprazole which is the main heartburn drug out there that's prescribed for it.

In a study 100% of patients - all of them - receiving these supplements reported a complete regression of symptoms after 40 days of treatment compared to fewer than 66% of those taking omeprazole and with no side effects! It's not completely necessary to take these drugs, even if you think you have severe damage of your gut that you cannot reverse because it's too late, the good news is that there are good and natural options and with far superior results. Remember the most important thing is to remove the 3 or 4 horsemen of the apocalypse for acid reflux. If you are still eating corn, soy, gluten, lots of sugar then you will have reflux. If you remove those you can cure yourself naturally as well.

Tiffany: Back in my carb and SAD diet eating days I had one episode of heartburn and it was awful, it was probably one of the worst feelings I've ever had in my life. I finally figured out after dealing with it for 15-20 minutes that "maybe this is heartburn?" I just had to suffer through it. I can understand people suffering, I imagine that really bad feeling that I had for a couple of hours, and people have that every single day. So I can imagine why they would be really desperate and want to try anything.

Gaby: I try to tell people to imagine life before these drugs, they're new, and they're from the 80's and 90's. Before what people did is change their diets, take aloe vera, baking soda and natural remedies and they survived!

Jonathan: We have got one more thing here with our introductory segment. I'm looking at an article called Plantsbeforepills. Erykah, I know we have got a little bit of a connection problem from where you are right now. Why don't you talk about this topic here for a minute and we will see how it goes.

Erykah: So Plants before Pills: A good point on the tail of what Gaby said on the idea that natural herbs can be beneficial and helpful. I recall an ecologist called Sebastian Pole who is actually and Ayurvedic practitioner for an organization called Pukka Herbs. It's actually a very informative article about Ayurveda like we had talked about at the beginning; the science of life and our relationship to plants and how now in our fast paced world we lack nutritional diversity with our relationship.

100 years ago we used to keep eating healthy by having over 100 different plants, today the figure is only 10-20. It's claiming here that "We are exposed to much less of Nature's phytochemical benefits every day. Because the variety of plants and herbs in our diet has radically diminished, we are no longer bathing our cells in as broad a spectrum of plant protection as we did through all of our earlier evolution, and this is one of the reasons our society's health is suffering today."

It talks a little bit about Bach flower remedies, and some research it did, I suggest the article just to get a bit of an idea to our relationship to plants. He goes into a little bit about the idea of the danger of modern medicines and basically just what Gaby was talking about - this idea that we need to have this single pill approach to our health for one. My sound is not good.

Tiffany: We are going to have to cut you off, you sound like you're in a time warp! [Laughter]

Erykah: Ok.

Jonathan: That's unfortunate.

Gaby: From a parallel universe!

Erykah: I tried, I tried! [Laughter]

Jonathan: It's good at a few points but then it just dropped. I think we are having some connection issues with Skype there. I think the point stands from this article, we could address this point that modern medicine has come to a point where it's basically lost a lot of these natural ways of curing illnesses. I think even to the point where most people just discount it completely where if you say you're going to treat something naturally, you're immediately looked on as someone who is a hippy or someone who is kind of crazy or you're a nut job because you don't trust doctors or you don't trust medicine, when the reality is that the majority of these medicines that have been developed by pharmaceutical companies come out of the study of natural remedies that have been around for thousands of years.

Unfortunately they are so adulterated now and of course a lot of them now are complete chemical cocktails, but what comes to mind for me is something like acetaminophen, which comes from white willow bark; things like that that have become day to day medicines that came out of a study of the natural way of curing things. I think it's unfortunate that it's going the way of the buffalo, the idea that you can treat even major illnesses with the use of natural remedies.

Doug: It's an interesting point too about the pharmaceutical companies studying the plant world to try to come up with their new drugs. In a lot of cases a lot of the studies that you find on herbal remedies are actually done by pharmaceutical companies because of just that, they are trying to find out what works in these herbal remedies and then they try to mimic the molecules or try to change them a little bit so they can be patented. Instead of using this traditional herb that's worked for thousands and thousands of years they want to isolate it, alter it a little bit and then patent it so they can make money off of it, and have an exclusive right over it when realistically you should just stick with the plant. There is no reason to do this, the only reason is to support this system, which is this inherent bias that seems to exist in our current culture that we have to try and "transcend nature" and that we are separate from nature and trying to conquer it in some way.

Realistically, we have lost our connection to that natural world and we would probably do a lot better if we tried to re-initiate that.

Tiffany: That loss of connection with nature is proved out because from my research I saw that there were 1 million deaths of Americans per year due to prescription drugs but when you research herbs there have been no deaths reported. Not to say that there are not any adverse events from improper use but if you compare the use of herbs to prescription drugs then prescription drugs wins hands down for the amount of damage that it does.

Then you also have to consider that with herbs you have all the natural vitamins and minerals that come along with it and prescription drugs don't have any of that. If you were to compare dandelion root and furosemide or lasix which are both diuretics, the drug furosemide or Lasix totally depletes your body of potassium but dandelion root does not do that.

Doug: Another example of that is like what Johnathan brought up before, the white willow bark versus acetaminophen. Acetaminophen has the side effect of causing gastrointestinal damage because it is this isolated part that's been refined in some way. But if you take the herb white willow bark, it has all these co-factors in it so it doesn't have that negative effect on the gut. That's another good example right there.

Tiffany: Not to mention the negative effect on the liver!

Gaby: Another example that comes to my mind is nicotine because there is the nicotine plant - the tobacco plant, has a lot of medicinal applications and mainstream medicine has done drugs to take advantage of that, to treat kidney failure and inflammatory bowel disease and it doesn't work the same; it has side effects. Then you have the tobacco plant which is a plant, a natural remedy which gets vilified and there you go!

Like we reviewed on the show on tobacco, the cultural system has really gone against the tobacco plant when it has really been used for thousands of years for medicinal purposes.

Jonathan: It's also the same thing with kava. People are familiar with it being referred to as kava kava but it's basically just called kava; Piper methysticum. I forget exactly how to pronounce it but it's an anti-anxiety plant and the root is ground up and then ingested. Every time you find this in a store, especially if you find capsules or something it will have a warning for liver damage, even that it can cause severe liver toxicity and even death. First of all it's not true; it came out of a bunch of misguided studies in Europe in the 90's.

Something that I though was interesting about that, when I was reading on it was that the root itself contains glutathione and it contains enough of it that it enables your liver to properly detox the compounds that might otherwise block up the detox pathways. Then when they extract the active compound what are called the kava lactones and then put them into capsules they leave behind the glutathione and so you can get liver damage from taking too much of these capsules but you really have to take a ton, like a ridiculous amount for anything like that to happen.

It's just another example of them trying to medicalize "these things" by making - in their mind - more pure extracts in the lab but they are leaving behind the compound that nature has put together in order to allow the body to properly process these things. It seems to be the case with a lot of material.

Gaby: Learning about these herbs and the medicinal applications also helps to diminish the cultural system because I have seen patients and they have told me "I have this inflammation here, I went to the herbal shop and bought arnica and devils claw and it went away but it cost me like 8 euros!" Like, it should be given away for free. Because they come from the cultural system, through the public health service system and they can get ibuprofen for free.

When they learn the side effects related with ibuprofen they can even seek what is available in their local area in nature itself but it also helps them to diminish the cultural system so people will start offering other options and maybe, hopefully all these drugs will come to an end. Or at least be properly prescribed just for acute emergencies.

Doug: Herbal medicine can be a tough sell because of that because your health system or your health insurance might pay for the pharmaceutical interventions but it won't pay for the natural stuff. In a lot of cases these natural remedies, herbal remedies, homeopathy and that sort of thing is a tough sell because people are like "Wait a minute I have to pay out of my own pocket for this?!" That ends up turning a lot of people off unfortunately.

Tiffany: It's sad to think that people will be so cheap, that they would think that that's unnecessary for them to spend money on?
[Agreement]

Doug: It's a good investment.

Gaby: It's a good investment and you have to educate people on real life in that it's for your own benefit and for the benefit for the whole world.

Tiffany: That being said we know that times are tough and people really don't have a lot of money but sometime you have to choose what's most important to you. I mean what's the point of being sick if you can't enjoy your life? You might as well spend a little money on some things that will help you.

Doug: Maybe you don't have to buy that Starbucks coffee every day and invest that in your health.

Jonathan: I think that it takes experience to prove that out to people. If somebody hasn't actually gone through the process and felt what it feels like to feel good, then they don't know. They don't have that experiential backup of why it would be worth it.

Doug: I think that's a really good point.

Jonathan: You can tell them what you know but it won't make them feel better.

Tiffany: There's a lot to be said for personal experience and actually knowing it, not just mentally, but physically. for yourself. I think those lessons are much more valuable than just somebody telling you something.

Doug: I think in this day and age, people don't even know what it is to feel good. They think that all these little nagging symptoms that they have like the heartburn, like the rash they've got, like all these things that seem kind of like little things that are just a part of life. They don't realize that these things really aren't necessary, that a totally health human being doesn't have any of these problems and that these are things that can be dealt with. They just all end up building up and they might go for their doctor's pharmaceutical intervention on some of them but then that causes side effects.

Johnathan, I think that's a very good point that a lot of people just don't have the understanding of what it means to be healthy.

Tiffany: A lot of people see things that are common as normal, just because they're common and a lot of people that you know have these certain experiences doesn't mean it's a normal part of ageing or getting old or being a woman or being a man or anything like that. It's your birthright really to be healthy, that's what's normal!

Gaby: I see that a lot, for example in the 90's when a person had multiple sclerosis everybody was shocked like it was a lottery of bad luck but nowadays people refer to it like "Oh yeah, I have multiple sclerosis." like it's nothing, like having a cold or something.

Jonathan: I'm sure we have all heard the "It's just a part of getting old" thing but I think that's a misnomer as well. Your joints aren't supposed to feel like shattered glass in your forties, you're not supposed to feel that way.

Doug: Or your brain's not supposed to degenerate so you can't think any more.

Jonathan: For me, my main problem used to be inflammation of the joints because I had an awful, awful diet; really bad. Tons of sugar, tons of gluten, tons of dairy and cheese. The standard American diet but I'd just binge eat all the time. I had tons of inflammation in my joints and my neck was always really, really tight and the first time I started even minimally correcting the diet and getting off of gluten - I was still eating a lot of carbs and stuff but I was just trying to move away from gluten - the amount of improvement was so staggering that I was like "Wow!"

I had though for years that it was normal to wake up with an aching neck every day. That was my problem and I just had to deal with it which was not true. That was the negative results of what I was doing to myself.

Tiffany: I'm going to speak on behalf of Erykah, she is suffering in silence but she wanted me to add in there that if somebody wants to take a further look there is an article on SOTT called Nature's Pain Killers.

Doug: I just posted it in the chat.

Gaby: My diet has been clean for so long that I sometimes get shocked or surprised when I see what another person is eating, how do they do it and just survive a normal day while eating all this stuff; all this inflammatory food? Sheesh!

Tiffany: I think that's a testament to how resilient the human body is, it can take a lot of damage over time but then at the end it's just not pretty.

Jonathan: This is certainly not to insult people's intelligence. I think there are a lot of really intelligent people who are still handicapped by this thing. Like when you said 'how do people make it through the day?' I think a lot of people struggle on a daily basis just being able to think without tons of noise, like internal dialogue and anxiety and things like that. I mean look at the explosion of anti-anxiety medications; how did that all come about? I don't think it was just modern society or just a fast paced lifestyle. That certainly contributes to it but a lot of it has to do with what we are putting into our bodies.

Not only the pollutants in the environment that we talked about last week but the diet that causes inflammation in the brain. Then you can be ostensibly a very smart and intelligent person and still have a hard time thinking clearly throughout the day because of all the inflammation that's going on there.

I think speaking of inflammation, Gaby, do you want to talk a little bit about herbs for combatting inflammation?

Gaby: Yeah, there are a few of them and they are really pretty good. For example Boswellia-- this is also known as frankincense. From my memory files this one is called nature's ibuprofen. It has been burned as incense in religious and cultural ceremonies for centuries. It is widely regarded as a potent anti-inflammatory nutrient and its active ingredient inhibits the main inflammatory pathway in our bodies which typically are the inflammatory pathways related with joint pain, allergies, respiratory conditions and cardiovascular problems.

Speaking of Ayurvedic medicine at the beginning, it was used in traditional Ayurvedic medicine foe diarrhea, ring worm, boils, fevers, arthritis, mouth sores, bronchitis, asthma, vaginal discharges, hair loss, jaundice, irregular menses and so forth.

I found the smallest extract from the blog of Byron Richards; the article is called Boswellia an Anti-inflammatory with Multiple Talents. He speaks about the association of joint pain and obesity. Researchers know that extra weight causes the mechanical wear and tear is a problem. They mostly forget that a common causation is inflammation because inflammation causes both joint destruction and obesity. The emerging culprit in inflammation is excessive amounts of what is called lipopolysaccharide, which is generated by bacteria. It's the sheath of the bacteria, the outer wall.

People who are obese typically have imbalances in digestive bacteria making larger than normal amounts of LPS - lipopolysaccharide. It enters the circulation and triggers inflammation and joint inflammation in general. A study shows that Boswellia can attach to the toxic LPS and prevent them from doing anything inflammatory in your body.

So this is a good one to try for those who are dealing with overweight issues and joint pain. Boswellia is a supplement I have taken with good results for inflammatory purposes and I think it is one of the favourite ones for forum members as well. Do you guys have experience with it?

Doug: No, I don't have personal experience but we sell it in the store that I work in and I've had good testimonials for it for sure. I think it's very interesting that according to the Jesus myth that was one of the things that the three wise men brought to the birth of Jesus; frankincense. That's how valuable it was considered back in the day.

Gaby: That's nice. I always have it in stock. This is one - Boswellia. There are several others, for example Comfrey root, which I think Johnathan was going to cover more in depth but it's basically a favourite one for ankle strains, to reduce swelling after knee surgery, to heal fractures, to improve things overall and it has really potent anti-inflammatory applications.

Other general ones are turmeric. It's a powerful anti-inflammatory and it was known as such in Chinese and Indian systems of medicine. It has been researched and it has been demonstrated that it has anti-inflammatory activity, especially the component of turmeric called curcumin. Numerous studies of curcumin have shown comparable effects with potent drugs like cortisone. It works better than ibuprofen as well so it's another one to keep in mind: Turmeric.

There are several others, the most well-known one is Ginger. It has potent anti-inflammatory components called gingerol. Many people with osteoarthritis or arthritis experience reductions in pain and improvement in mobility when they consume ginger regularly. Even people who didn't respond to conventional drugs were able to respond to ginger. Physicians have found that 75% of arthritis patients and 100% of patients with muscular discomfort experienced relief of pain or swelling with Ginger. So that's good news as well.

I mentioned anecdotally Devils Claw and Arnica are very popular for inflammation, relieving pain, symptoms of osteoarthritis, it's comparable to anti-inflammatory agents and it's used in sports injuries, swelling, pain, soreness and so forth.

Calendula also known as marigold, was used to treat skin conditions such as eczema, blepharitis which is an infection in your eye, gastritis, minor burns like sunburn and also warts; everything that is inflammatory in the skin. It has been observed that it increases the speed of healing which appears is due to calendula's anti-inflammatory virtues.

Rosemary, which is a very good spice, also contains anti-inflammatory components. In research it has been linked with reduced severity of asthma attacks. Those are the main anti-inflammatory ones. There are very good options out there, I really like them.

Tiffany: I've tried Ginger before, again back in my SAD diet days, for menstrual cramps. I didn't want to use ibuprofen any more. I think it was ginger tea, which I would drink if I had menstrual cramps and it really did help.

Doug: We've got a question in chat here where Phemus, is asking 'whether nano-circumin is needed or does standard curcumin do the job Ok?' The thing about turmeric is that if you are just using it as a spice the curcumin in there is not the most absorbable thing. You'll get some benefit from using turmeric but to really get a good anti-inflammatory effect from it you do need to use an extract, whether that be an alcohol extract or some other type of extract you do probably need to do a tincture or some of the capsules that are out there that use standardized extracts of some kind.

Whether or not nano-circumin is needed - there are a few products on the market now that are using nano-circumin and we talked about this in a previous show. It's kind of unknown at this point whether the use of nano particles is really a good thing, certainly for some things it's definitely dangerous. I haven't seen a lot of research on using nano particles for herbal extracts.

I'm actually using nano-circumin right now and I haven't noticed any negative effect from it and it does seem to work and it does seem to work as an anti-inflammatory. I know that doesn't really answer the question about nanos but it's kind of unknown at this point.

Tiffany: What about taking turmeric with food? That's why there are so many curry dishes. I've read that it's more absorbable with a fatty meal.

Gaby: Yes.

Doug: Yes, definitely.

Gaby: Sayer Ji advocates for that, Sayer Ji is the director from greenmedinfo.com and he says that it's much better, it's a natural spice with food and nature overrules so to speak.

Doug: I think with a fatty meal it's definitely important because there are compounds - maybe curcumin itself but I'm not 100% sure - which are fat soluble and not just water soluble. This is actually a good point for all herbs, if you're doing a tea you are only going to be able to get the water soluble particles out of it. With many herbs that's actually enough, the active constituents are water soluble but with some herbs you need to have either an alcohol extract or a fatty meal with it. Just because, the fat soluble stuff won't come out with just water.

I know a lot of people will advocate using Milk Thistle tea just as an example but the active component which helps the liver which is called silymarin, is fat soluble, it's not water soluble, so Milk Thistle tea isn't actually going to do much for your liver. You want to do either a tincture or some kind of extract.

Tiffany: Good point.

Jonathan: I think pretty much everybody should be just eating turmeric every day.
[Agreement]

Gaby: I do that!

Jonathan: Plus it's so good; so tasty.

Tiffany: That's my favourite one. I say turmeric; do you all say turmeric or toomeric? How do you pronounce it?

Jonathan: I go back and forth honestly.

Tiffany: Turmeric is definitely my favourite. I always say that if I had a daughter I would name her turmeric; Turmeric Jackson. [Laughter] The reason I love turmeric so much - I'll just interject with a personal story - my mother had some sort of weird growth on her shin; we never got it checked out and didn't have a biopsy or anything. It was small, like smaller than the size of a dime but it had irregular borders so it raised my red flags. I told her to make a paste out of DMSO and turmeric and put it on that spot and put a little bandage over it and after three days she said it fell off. That's why I love turmeric.

Doug: That's great.

Jonathan: Wow.

Doug: Doing Turmeric topically can actually be used for melanoma; DMSO would probably work with it but doing it topically is really good.

Gaby: Melanoma you said?

Doug: Yeah, for melanoma.

Gaby: That's interesting because melanoma is considered an inflammatory condition. There is an anti-inflammatory drug used for the treatment of melanoma.

Doug: Yeah, that's interesting.

Jonathan: Gaby, had mentioned Comfrey there and I've got a little bit of information on that; just some interesting stuff here. First of all if people aren't familiar, Comfrey is also commonly known as bone knit and it's a leafy plant; it's a perennial. It's actually really easy to grow if you can get Comfrey seed or if you can get a plant from someone. I've got one that's been growing in a bucket for years, it winters great and then it comes back in the spring; I barely even take care of it and it just keeps coming back full every year; it's a really hardy plant.

A little bit of background information - The genus name of Comfrey Symphytum; is derived from the Greek 'sympho' - 'to make grow together', 'phyton' which means plant and 'officinal' which means this was the official medicinal plant sold in apothecaries and pharmacopoeias. The common name comfrey comes from the Latin 'conferva' alluding to the uniting of bones and from the Latin 'confervere'; to boil, or grow together, or to heal.

It's been used for many, many hundreds and probably thousands of years. In recorded history it was in use in Greece in 400BC. It was written about by historians like Herodotus and Dioscorides, the Greek physician. The contemporary of Dioscorides, Pliny the Elder experimented with the roots and remarked that boiling comfrey roots in water produced a sticky paste which glued pieces of meat together.

Doug: That's handy.

Jonathan: Yeah, so if you need to glue your meat together use Comfrey roots.

Tiffany: For making fake steaks!

Jonathan: Some of our listeners might be familiar with the name Paracelsus; he was a Swiss physician and some people say he was an alchemist. He wrote - this is not in modern English but I'll just read the quote here because it's interesting - "To what purpose do you add vinegar to the root of comfrey?" He asked his surgeons "Or bole, or suchlike balefull additaments, while God hath compos'd this simple sufficient to cure the fracture of the bones." That's from Paracelsus from the 1530's AD. You can see that for many, many years it's been used for these purposes; for knitting bones and also for anti-inflammatory uses.

One of my favourite stories about Comfrey that I was actually able to find was a broken arm that was healed in 5 days. The son of a registered nurse in Provo Utah broke his arm, so she rushed him to the hospital. When the doctor x-rayed the arm he told them that the bone was clean broken, so clean that he would have to use a brace for a few days until the knitting had started before applying a cast. He told them to return in 5 days. The arm was bare so on arriving at home the boy's mother put comfrey poultices and formications around the arm and gave him comfrey tea, comfrey green drink, comfrey tablets and capsules and put comfrey into salads and steamed it as a vegetable. In fact she put comfrey into him in every way possible; topically and internally.

5 days later when she took him back to the doctor to get the cast put on the doctor took another x-ray and said "What have you done to this boy?" He proceeded to announce that the bone was knitted together without even a hairline crack left.

Tiffany: Wow!

Gaby: Oh my god!

Tiffany: And then social services came and took him away.

Gaby: Unbelievable, wow!

Tiffany: That's definitely something to keep in your first aid kit.

Doug: Interestingly enough there is a homeopathic remedy of comfrey that's quite popular. It's called symphytum officinale which is used for fractures and that sort of thing. If you've got access to homeopathics but you can't find fresh comfrey then that's an option.

Jonathan: There is some debate as to whether the leaves or the root are more effective, I would think both are; you would want to use both in equal proportions. I know in the past I have made tea from the dried root which we can get from our local health food co-op; they have it there. It makes a really nice foamy, thick and almost gummy tea. I believe that's the compound allantoin which is the active compound in comfrey. Allantoin is present in botanical extracts of the comfrey plant and in the urine of most mammals. So you can also drink mammal urine.

It's safe, it's non-toxic, there is some controversy over whether or not comfrey is toxic and it's not. It's been proven to not be toxic. I had found a bit about the FDA's warning on comfrey. It's such a staggering thing I think that they use indications basically to say "this might be dangerous in a really certain, specific set of parameters". Yet, all the prescription medicines that we have been talking about pass through with flying colours. All of the food additives that are in food are approved by the FDA and yet, at the same time here's this natural plant that's been used for literally thousands of years and they're like "Oh that might be dangerous, don't use that!"

Tiffany: Well as far as I'm concerned the FDA can suck it. They've lost all credibility in my book. [Laughter]

Gaby: Exactly.

Doug: Amen!

Jonathan: So that's comfrey. It's used for a lot of different things; it can be used for your teeth as well. I have done this in the past myself - basically steeping comfrey in a tea and then putting in a couple of drops of DMSO and then swishing that in your mouth. The DMSO acts as a carrier and it takes the active compound of the comfrey and drives it into your gums so that you can use it to strengthen your teeth in that way.

Gaby: That's a good one because it's a frequently asked question. "How do I prevent bone loss and tooth loss and gum issues?" That's a good one.

Tiffany: So you take the tea and you mix it with DMSO and then you swish it in your mouth?

Jonathan: Yes.

Doug: Do you swallow it afterwards?

Jonathan: You can, yeah, certainly. It depends; I think it is an entirely personal thing. Of course you don't want to take too much of the DMSO internally but if you are just using a couple of drops then you can swallow it.

Gaby: Do you know if you smell after doing this? A bad side effect of DMSO smells like sulphur. Do people report a strange odour in the mouth after swishing DMSO with comfrey root?

Jonathan: Honestly, I'm not sure. I never noticed anything in fact I rarely even notice the garlic sulphur smell from DMSO myself. I know other people have but I personally have never had that experience.

Tiffany: It always smells like oysters to me.

Gaby: The problem is that the person doing the DMSO remedy doesn't notice but other people notice a strange smell so I wondered if this was an issue.

Tiffany: Just don't French kiss anybody afterwards. [Laughter]

Gaby: Ok!

Jonathan: DMSO is pretty incredible but I have had a couple of experiences with that too where I kind of overdid it. It's a fault of mine where I try to turn everything up to eleven. [Laughter] I was using a topical DMSO gel for muscle soreness on my neck and I put too much on and it burned really bad so I had to run into the shower and rinse it off right away. DMSO is definitely something to be careful with and basically start with very, very tiny little drops for whatever application you are using it for.

I also quickly wanted to go over some liver and kidney herbs. The liver produces bile for the breakdown of waste in your intestines. Of course it has a lot of other functions but not to go into too much detail on everything. Your kidneys extract the waste from your blood, processes your blood and cleans it back in so both those organs are very important in the healthy function of the body. I have a list of some top herbs that are used.

These ones are for kidney cleansing, chanca piedra, or also called stone breaker, is a favourite in South America for supporting the kidneys, goldenrod, hydrangea root, horse tail, celery root, gravel root also known as joe-pye weed, which has a long history of use by Native Americans, uva ursi also known as bear berry, marshmallow root, dandelion root and parsley. Parsley is actually a kidney cleaner.

Some of the ones for liver cleansing are borututu bark, which is by far one of the most powerful substances when it comes to liver cleansing and digestive system support. Milk thistle, chanca piedra; also for the liver, greater celandine; the ancient Greeks and Romans considered celandine to be one of the most powerful liver cleansing herbs. The famous French herbalist Maurice Mességué used greater celandine for all liver problems no matter what. Chicory root, dandelion root again, turmeric of course; I think we'll come to discover that turmeric can be used for pretty much everything, peppermint and organic yellow dock root.

So those are the herbs you will want to look up if you are looking into cleansing the kidney or the liver. When I mentioned earlier that I had overdosed on oregano oil and had this giant herxheimer reaction, I had hives for a few weeks and one of the things that I did to treat those was to take a nettle tea. Nettle is also considered a cleanser for the liver and I believe that helped to flush to toxins out. I noticed it was also a potent anti-inflammatory while that was happening. Within a half hour to an hour of drinking the tea the itching from the hydrogen had subsided so that's something to keep in mind as well.

Doug: Chanca piedra and gravel root, are used for kidney stones. I know chanca piedra will break down calcium anywhere it is deposited, so it's good for kidney stones and so is gravel root.

Gaby: That's a good one to have in mind because a kidney stone produces the most awful pain ever. For those who have had it, they know what I'm talking about.

Tiffany: It sounds like maybe chanca piedra is good for dissolving calcium deposits maybe in your arteries too?

Doug: I don't know, I haven't heard of it being used for that but it wouldn't surprise me.

Jonathan: I wonder if taking it in combination with K2 because vitamin K2 is for moving calcium around the body so you might be able to double team that. [Agreement] Well let's talk about some other herbs. Doug, do you want to do some anti-cancer herbs?

Doug: Sure, so just to riff on cancer for a little bit - we talk a lot on the cassiopaea forum about the idea of STS and STO. STS standing for service to self versus STO which is service to others. I was just thinking about cancer the other day and how it's kind of like a service to self disease - the individual cell takes it on itself to go rouge rather than work in co-operation with all the surrounding cells. It's kind of like this contractive force; it diverts resources from the rest of the body in order to grow itself. It will actually secrete a substance that makes blood vessels attracted to it so it will pull all the surrounding resources into feed the tumor, actually diverting those blood vessels just to feed itself.

It also has a corrupting influence on the surrounding cells; it turns off its death mechanism so that it continues to live. It also has these methods of cloaking itself from the rest of the body's immune system so that the body can't actually detect it; operating in secrecy.

Maybe I'm going into wacky territory here but in order to combat this you kind of have to use more service to others type of methods for getting rid of these things. That requires being indirect in a lot of ways, if you think about the pharma methods which are basically all about warfare on the tumor; like chemotherapy, radiation. It's all about poisoning, attacking, being very aggressive in getting at this thing. It ends up having a really detrimental effect on the body as a whole. If you think about the pharma industry it is very service to self, it's all about getting money and putting yourself into this conventional method for treating cancer. You're putting yourself in this STS hierarchy pyramid where you're at this level where you're feeding money up in this pyramid scheme.

That kind of method is just continuing the same kind of thing like you are using this service to self method to try and get rid of this service to self disease; just becoming a cog in that machine. So I think about the opposite to that and we talk about the ketogenic diet. I won't go into too much detail but it's changing the bio chemistry of your cells so that it relies on fat for energy rather than relying on carbohydrates.

An ideally done ketogenic diet is much more conducive to a service to others type environment just because you're supporting a farmer that if you're eating pastured animals like you should be you're supporting a farmer that is putting more energy back into the land. Pastured animals will build up the land rather than stripping it of all the nutrients from the ecosystem the way that conventional farming does. You're supporting the small farms so you're putting money into a system that's more conducive to giving back. So I was kind of thinking about it along those lines. Am I in wacky territory there?

Tiffany: No, I think that makes great sense. I think Dr. Tullio Simoncini; an Italian doctor did a lot of studies about how cancer was a fungus so basically what you are saying is that cancer is a psychopath.

Doug: That's a good way of putting it.

Tiffany: Or it behaves like one.

Doug: Yeah, very much so. All that being said I do think that with a ketogenic diet there is a lot of preliminary research with using it for cancer. It does make a lot of sense, cancer cells can't survive on fat because they don't use mitochondria, they get all their energy from sugar; a fermentation process. By switching your diet to using fat as the main source of energy you're kind of starving those tumors by not providing them with the sugar that they need.

But there are a lot of herbs that can be helpful in conjunction with that so I'll just go through a few of those - herbs from the berberus family; and that includes berberine, goldenseal, oregon grape which all contain a compound called berberine; it's a slow acting purgative. Research has shown these herbs to have a strong action against cancer and they have been used with many cancers, especially ovarian cancer.

In Cancer Watch 2015, the herb was show in research to out-perform the brain cancer drug Temozolomide in vitro. I thought that was pretty interesting. Codonopsis root is another good one. It increases both the white blood cell and the red blood cell levels. It can be extremely helpful to patients who are having chemotherapy or radiotherapy or patients who use cancer diminishers. That's a helpful thing as well.

A rather controversial one is graviola, otherwise known as soursop. The idea that graviola is an effective cancer fighter comes from research at Purdue university back in 1997. The active component of the tree is a unique substance known as annonaceous acetogenins. They found that it was a potent inhibitor of cancer cells while leaving normal cancer cells alone and they're saying that the compound has anti-tumor properties 10,000 times more powerful than adriamycin, which is a chemotherapy drug and it doesn't have any side effects. They also found the compound effective against drug resistant cells so these are ones that are incredibly difficult to treat with conventional chemo treatment; pancreatic cancer being one of the main ones but also lung cancer, breast cancer and prostate cancer.

The controversy comes for the fact that these were in vitro results so they haven't actually done any in vivo studies where they are studying it on the person or on the animal itself. It's all done using test tube type tests for it. It's a long way from clinical trials, I think that what basically happened was that they tested this thing in vitro then the pharmaceutical companies tried to make the compound or version of the compound themselves and couldn't do it so they kind of abandoned all research on it. For this reason all the more conventional web pages you find on graviola say "Oh, there's no proof that it works and you have to very careful because there haven't been safety studies" and all this kind of stuff."

There is a fair amount of anecdotal evidence but nonetheless the human trials don't exist so I guess it is something that you should be kind of careful with. As Gaby, pointed out to me as we were discussing this earlier - the fruit of graviola itself is actually quite high in sugar so if you are attempting a ketogenic approach to cancer you might want to make sure you're getting an extract rather than using the fruit itself just because you'll be getting a lot of sugar with the medicinal compound.

Gaby: It did taste good to me but it's a lot of sugar!

Doug: So you've tried it?

Gaby: Yes! It grows everywhere in Costa Rica where I'm originally from. It's very tasty, it's delicious but it's very sugary.

Doug: That's interesting. I know you can also use the leaves and the bark for it so that might be a better option because of that sugar issue.

Tiffany: Since you brought up the Ketogenic diet Doug, I think it's important to stress that that should always be the basis for anything because you can't out-herb or out-drug any kind of ailment. You always have to have a strong foundation with diet first.

Doug: Absolutely.

Tiffany: Other herbs can just be used to support.

Doug: I think that's very true, that should be your main mode of attack; not to use the war terminology but it should be your main focus and then these herbs are just supplemental and can help with that.

I'll try not to go on too long about these but there are a couple of Chinese medicine herbs that are really good for the immune system. One is called astragalus, and one is called andrographis, and both of these are used not just for cancer treatment but astragalus is one that I know a lot of people will take all during cold season; from October to March they'll just be taking astragalus on a daily basis. Just because it's an immune booster and it will keep your immune system on guard for any invaders; it's very helpful. Andrographis is one that has anti-viral properties as well so if you actually do get sick andrographis is a good one to combat that.

Astragalus actually increases interferon levels as well as natural killer cells and T-cell activity, so that's all your body's natural defences against tumors or tumor growth or irregular cell growth. It was used in traditional Chinese medicine for any kind of chronic weakness or what they referred to as spleen deficiency; low vitality, fatigue, diarrhea, spontaneous sweating and lack of appetite so it's good for bringing up your general vitality as well which can be very low in any kind of cancer situation. It enhances immunity during chemo treatment as well, so it can help with any of those chemo side effects; it protects the liver, heart and kidneys from these drugs as well.

The MD Anderson Cancer Centre in Texas, conducted research showing that taking astragalus during radiotherapy doubled survival times. It's also a blood builder, it has anti-tumor activity, it helps with immune system deficiency, it helps to identify rogue cells and inhibit platelet aggregation. It has also been used with great results in AIDS research.

Andrographis, the second one I was talking about is another one with a long history in Chinese medicine, it's an immune activating and cancer inhibiting herb, it's been shown to inhibit the proliferation of cancer by causing differentiation inducing activity upon dividing cells. It's found to be very helpful in stomach cancer, breast cancer, prostate cancer, lymphatic leukemia, melanoma and Non-Hodgkin lymphoma. There are a couple of studies here but I think I'll skip that to keep things brief.

Turmeric once again - the wonder herb...

Tiffany: Yey!!!!

Doug: Yes, exactly, eat lots of turmeric kids! It actually helps DNA; it protects DNA against oxidation better than vitamin C, vitamin E and beta carotene. It inhibits the pro inflammatory processes in the body, including the production of arachidonic acid which has a pro inflammatory effect. As well as, acting as an anti-oxidant and enhancing the production of anti-cancer immune cells. I mentioned before that it shows amazing potential as a topical, in cases of melanoma and in cases of pre-cancerous lesions. It seems to have a synergistic effect with EGCG, which is a compound that's found in green tea; especially for skin cancer. So if you were to do a poultice of a combination of turmeric and green tea, you would probably be doing really great things for skin cancer.

Schizandra berry is another really good one, particularly for all the effects that come with cancer. Again, it's kind of a restorative remedy, it does enhance your immunity and it's also been found to increase your work capacity, your exercise capacity and your mental capacity. They have found it helps vision and your adaptability to darkness as well as helping with other environmental stressors. It's a stimulator for the central nervous system, it enhances both mental and physical capabilities, it's good for any kind of exhaustion, fatigue, insomnia, weakness, depression, forgetfulness and it's also very good and it has protective effects for the liver, it's a detoxifier for chemo and radiation, anti-toxic and anti-oxidant and has been found to be helpful in liver cancer.

Lastly green tea, another great one. It provides protection against many of the major categories of carcinogens both direct and indirect, physical carcinogens and tumor promoters, it blocks abnormal cell growth, slows down the production of hydrogen peroxide which is a pro-oxidant and it enhances the immune system. Interestingly enough a lot of people are not into green tea because of the caffeine that it has but caffeine actually has anti-cancer properties on its own. It induces cell death in cancer cells and enhances the effects of radiation and some chemotherapy drugs so yeah, caffeine!

The polyphenolic compounds EGCG show chemo preventative activity in animal models and in human epidemiological studies. What they have done is they have done studies of populations that drink green tea and looked at populations that don't and found lower cancer rates. Now epidemiological studies can never be used to show causation because there are just too many co-founding factors but it's still interesting none the less.

Recent studies have shown that green tea has an inhibitory effect on stomach cancer and the authors of that study have actually recommended that everybody drink green tea simply as a preventative to help protect against stomach cancer.

I hope that wasn't too long winded and boring. A boring list there!

Gaby: It's good stuff! We should all learn these.

Tiffany: Maybe I'm mixing up green tea with something else but are there any concerns about green tea and fluoride content? Does it just depend on the type of green tea that you are using?

Doug: There is some concern. I think it does depend on what type and where it's coming from. I know that the fluoride that has a detrimental effect is the industrial waste that they are putting into water supplies, so it's more of a natural form of fluoride so I don't know if that really has the same concern associated with it. It is something to keep in mind for sure.

Gaby: It is still interesting that they have good results with green tea regardless of its origin so that's another thing to keep in mind.

Doug: I think that's true. I'm just not really a green tea drinker but after reading this I'm kind of thinking maybe I should start.

Gaby: I don't like the flavor to be honest but I'll think about it, I'll try it out.

Tiffany: I prefer spicy teas.

Doug: Maybe doing a mix, putting a green tea bag in with another flavored tea and drinking it that way.

Gaby: Perfect solution. Add some ginger to it. [Laughter]

Doug: Perfect, you would get anti-inflammatory effects too.

Tiffany: So are we going to go to some anti-viral herbs?

Doug: I think so. I think we've lost Johnathan here. Why don't you launch into it then Tiff?

Tiffany: I was going to talk a little bit about garlic and some other anti-viral, anti-fungal, anti-bacterial, immune boosting herbs. There has been a lot of research on garlic, as an anti-fungal agent and a lot of the anti-fungal properties of garlic have been attributed to a phytochemical called allicin. That is produced when raw garlic cloves are crushed or chopped so if you are going to fix a dish with garlic when you chop or crush your garlic let it sit for 10-15 minutes and that will increase the amount of allicin that it produces.

Garlic has been used to treat acne and conditions like candida yeast in parts of the body. Garlic also has anti-oxidant vitamins and minerals; it has vitamin C, zinc and selenium. There have been some studies that show that garlic is capable of killing bacteria much the same way as penicillin does. It can be used to treat infections or if you have an infection that is not responding to a particular anti-biotic you can try garlic. The most important thing in my book about garlic is that it's effective against vampires [Laughter] but I couldn't find any scientific studies reporting that.

Garlic is really good; we have pickled garlic here in the house. We eat whole cloves of garlic, it's really delicious.

Gaby: Wow!

Tiffany: I've never had any garlicy smell or body odor afterwards; maybe I just didn't notice but it's really good.

Doug: I think it's one of those things that you don't notice but the people around you might.

Tiffany: Well nobody's said anything; I guess maybe they're just being polite.

Doug: Maybe!

Tiffany: The next one I have is pau d'arco; am I saying that right - pau d'arco?

Doug: I've heard it pronounced that way or pau darko.

Tiffany: Pau d'arco? Yeah that sounds better, it kind of flows of my tongue a little better. It is a big evergreen tree that is native to South America. They use the inner bark of the tree which has the medicinal properties. I had some pau d'arco once and it does look like little wood chips. You can boil it down and drink it as a tea. The active chemical in pau d'arco is naphthoquinones and that's responsible for the anti-bacterial, anti-fungal, anti-parasitical and anti-viral effects. It inhibits certain enzymes in whatever critter you happen to be populated with.

There have been some studies on pau d'arco that says it's just as effective as ketoconazole which is an anti-fungal drug and it's just as effective as that in treating vaginal yeast infections caused by candida. It has been shown to be effective in fighting fungal infections like athlete's foot, jock itch and warts.

We already talked about oregano oil; so just remember Johnathan's tale and not to overdo it on oregano oil. The active ingredients in that are terpenes and thymol and you can use that topically as well for fungal infections. You can inhale it as a steam inhalation for sinus infections.

We talked already about turmeric; I don't think there are many more good things that I can say about it. It reduces viral and microbial replication and it can help the spread of microbes to other cells in the body. It also has potassium and manganese which are boosting to your immune system. Also, if you want to increase the bioavailability of turmeric besides adding it to a fatty dish, research has shown that if you eat it with black pepper it increases the bioavailability up to a thousand times.

It's a lot. If you have worms or some other kind of parasite you can use wormwood. This is a shrub that is native to Europe, Northern Africa and Western Asia. They use the flower and tops of this, the interesting thing about wormwood is that it's been used in vermouth, white wine and the drink called absinthe that people used to drink in the 19th century and get totally blasted on it.

Doug: It's a hallucinogen isn't it?

Tiffany: Yeah, if you drink it for long periods of time you get totally addicted to it and you would be toxic and you can bleed to death so don't drink any absinthe. But it's effective against intestinal parasites and it can be used as an insect repellant. You can mash up some wormwood leaves and mix it with apple cider vinegar, put it on a cloth and rub it on your skin. It has ingredients in it called azulene and sesquiterpene lactones which are anti-inflammatory, anti-tumor and anti-insecticide.

Black seed, which I think is also called black cumin is effective against helicobacter pylori, which was when we were talking about the proton pump inhibitors and GERD and stomach acid so you might want to try black seed if you are having a little bit of a problem in that area. It's also good against MRSA, it stimulates the production of bone marrow interferon and it just generally builds the immune system and has anti-cancer effects.

Doug: It's interesting about the black seed oil, I don't know where this is written but apparently the prophet Mohammad once said about black seed that it cures everything except death.

Tiffany: I've actually taken a black seed tea, it comes in there chunky black things and I used a mortar and pestle and broke it up a little bit and made it into a tea and strained it. It doesn't taste bad and you can see little fat droplets so it has nice little fatty acid component to it.

Doug: Wow.

Tiffany: The last one that I have is black walnut. I don't think I've seen a black walnut tree but these little grey globey things hanging off of it is the black walnut. It has a walnut on the inside but the hull of the black walnut, contains something called juglone and that is what is responsible for the medicinal properties. This one is also good for intestinal worms; like tape worm, hook worm and round worm. Veterinarians use it to treat heart worm in dogs, it can be used as a heart worm preventative and it can also be used to repel fleas and ticks.

One thing that I used it for - it was a black walnut but there is one that's slightly bigger and it looks like a brain, I don't know if that's black walnut too but either one of those - they say if you put that in a corner of your house it can repel spiders and little critters.

Doug: Really?

Tiffany: Yeah, I made the mistake of putting it somewhere in my house and I forgot about it and then I came back a while later and it was this dirty black rotting ball [Laughter] so if you use it for that just don't forget about it. Don't put it behind your couch or something where you can't see where it is because you will come back to a very nasty surprise.

Doug: Did it work?

Tiffany: Well I didn't see any spiders or anything, I'm not sure. I'll try it again. So that's all I got as far as anti-viral, anti-parasitical herbs. There are just so many herbs we could just go on and on all day about herbs.

Doug: Yeah. It was interesting what you were saying at the beginning of the show. All these herbs have so many different properties too. It's not like one herb is for one thing, one herb could be used for so many different things. Ok, do we have time for me to go into medicinal mushrooms here?

Tiffany: A little magic mushroom action.

Doug: We'll talk about the hallucinogenic kind but as far as health goes mushrooms are pretty amazing things. A lot of the research that I'm going to summarize here is going to be coming from a guy named Paul Stamets and he is kind of like the master mushroom researcher; a mycologist as they're called. He does academic research as well as going out in to the field, like into rainforests and stuff to look for new species of mushrooms which he has actually found and he studies farming methods.

He is using all these different things that he has found to come up with what he calls fungal solutions for solvable problems. So he does things like augmenting conventional therapies in integrative medicine with mushrooms, he pioneers strategies to counter colony collapse disorder. I don't know if you have heard about that but if the issues were that the bees were dying off by the millions or billions and their colonies were disappearing or dying out, he has come up with using mushrooms in ways to help them. He also uses mushrooms for protecting biodiversity, developing mycofiltration methods to clean water, investing in mycoremediation technologies to break down and neutralize toxic wastes. He has come up with a method of replacing toxic pesticides with non-toxic, non-invasive mycoremedies; like mushroom remedies.

That's really interesting, I pulled an article up on SOTT about how he's got this patent out right now that is apparently scaring all these pesticide companies because it's this really effective method of using fungus that doesn't hurt the crop at all but really takes out the pests that are trying to get at them. I'm looking forward to more information as research on that comes out.

He also builds soil with beneficial fungi aiding forest ecosystems and agriculture and he is also helping to research mycelium and bacteria based bio-fuels. He is a pretty amazing guy to hear talk, he has a TED talk that is available on YouTube so I would definitely encourage listening to him because he is such an interesting to guy to hear speak. He is extremely passionate about mushrooms.

Gaby: What is his name again?

Doug: His name is Paul Stamets, very amazing guy. His premise is that the mushroom mycelium connects the immune systems between humans and the environment. When we think of mushrooms we think of little toadstool shaped things. That is what is commonly referring to as the fruiting body but actually the mushroom spans underneath the ground and it has these networks that are called mycelium and they are only these threadlike networks that can span for miles underneath the surface. They have this pretty amazing immune system that can deal with any kind of pests that come after it under the ground.

What we see of the mushroom is only a very small part of the mushroom, that's its reproductive organ but the majority of tit is actually the mycelium underneath the ground.

Tiffany: I did not know that!

Doug: Yeah, it's really cool and when the mycelium meets underground, that's when they have their reproductive state; the two mycelium meet and that's when it forms a fruiting body and gives off seeds. Here is another interesting thing - mushrooms apparently share more DNA with humans than plants share with humans. Stamets, thinks that that is why they are so medicinally effective because they share a lot of their DNA with us they actually deal with a lot of the same microbial pathogens that we do. But they have had such a long evolutionary history, much longer than ours so they have actually developed these compounds that can deal with these microbial pathogens which can defend them. We can actually use those medicinally to defend ourselves because they're the same pathogen.

Mushrooms have a positive correlation with different systems in our bodies - just a couple of examples: Reishi; mushrooms have an affinity for the cardiovascular system, Chaga; mushroom is very high in anti-oxidants and help with detoxification, Turkey tail has an affinity for the immune system and Lions mane; which is really cool, I don't know if you've ever seen a lions mane mushroom but it actually does look like a lions mane, it has these little threadlike things that hang off it. It's really good for the brain and the nervous system and can actually help grow new nervous system cells.

Mushrooms are also helpful with the digestive system, the neurologic system, the immune system, the reproductive system, the skin, the skeletal system and the muscular system.

Gaby: We have a couple of questions from a chatter. He says 'Moriarty claimed that enzymes used with oil would reclaim soil, I wonder if those enzymes have a mycelium fungal basis?'

Doug: I don't know, I'm not familiar with Moriarty's stiff bit it wouldn't surprise me because there is a lot of active enzymes in the mushrooms and particularly in the mycelium. That could very well be the case that is what provides a lot of the medicinal benefit to us because I know Paul Stamets is looking into converting toxic wastes by using fungi so it could very well be.

Gaby: For me it's a reality check because I always disliked mushrooms but I'm going to look into this. I posted the ted link on the chat.

The other question is - 'Is there anything you think about using mainly local herbs as opposed to herbs imported from far away? Like a hundred mile herb diet? For example herbs from your climate may be more effective?'

Doug: I think so, there is some evidence - this might not be totally scientific but the idea is that these herbs have grown up in the same environment that you have, so you are sharing an environment with them. The defences that they've made up against whatever pathogens might be there or the pollution that's there, you're sharing that same environment so you're exposed to the same sort of things. Intuitively I would say yes and I have heard people say that in the past, that that's the benefit of eating locally as well. You share the same environment so even more esoteric things like the weather and other environmental things - because these plants have these protective capabilities for themselves that might be conferred to people as well. So I'd say yes, what do you think Gaby?

Gaby: I think that is the case. It reminds me of treating allergies with local remedies because it's the same allergens from your local environment. Erykah says here in our chat 'That local herbs, also affect gut microbes, gut microbes are also from the local environment.'

Tiffany: You could also see it as even more practical because if you buy locally you don't have to wait for the herbs to ship to you and they've been dried so you can buy them locally and they're fresher and you can use them immediately. Fresher is always better.

Doug: I lived in California for a while and we had wild rosemary growing all over the place and I would go out into my back yard, grab some rosemary, go back inside, chop it up and put it in my meal so it's great.

Stamets has done some research on using mushrooms for increasing our immune response and he found that using multiple species of mushrooms was more beneficial than just using one. There is actually a published study from 2003 which is called Potentiation of Cell-Mediated Host Defense Using Fruitbodies and Mycelia of Medicinal Mushrooms. If you are interested in reading some academic research on this then you can find that study. Pretty interesting stuff.

Mushrooms are pretty amazing things so I'll give a bit of a list here of all the different properties that they have - they're anti-bacterial, anti-candida, anti-inflammatory, anti-oxidant, anti-tumor, anti-viral, they help with blood pressure, they're blood sugar modulators, they have cardiovascular benefits, they're cholesterol reducers, immune enhancers, kidney tonic, liver tonic, they help with the lungs, the respiratory system, nerve tonic, sexual potentiator and stress reducer.

Now not every species of mushroom is going to have all of these properties but there are a few that are the kings of it. Reishi is probably the king of the mushrooms because it gets checked off in all of these different categories except for sexual potentiator. So if you have any issue except for your sexual potential then reishi is the mushroom for you.

Another great one is Cordyceps; and cordyceps is a really weird mushroom, it's actually the spores that inhabit caterpillar larvae and they take over and kill off the caterpillar and the mushroom grows straight out of its head. You then collect that mushroom which is then used medicinally. It has amazing properties as well. It doesn't get checked off in the anti-candida or anti-inflammatory section but it does in all the rest of these. These days they tend to grow it on a bed of rice or something like that instead of growing it out of the caterpillar because there's cross contamination possibilities.

Tiffany: I don't want any caterpillar DNA in my mushrooms thank you very much.

Doug: There is the ick factor involved. Another good one is Shiitake mushroom, which is great because it's actually used in cuisine quite a bit. It's another super mushroom that has a lot of these categories. Oyster mushroom, which is another one good for a lot of this stuff. So, there is all these different things and adding mushrooms to your diet would be helpful but you can also supplement with them; you can find a lot of the different extracts.

Gaby: I think I'll research the supplements first because if I mistake a poisonous mushroom for a medicinal one that could end badly. [Laughter]

Doug: That's something we should say, if you're going to go out mushroom hunting you should have somebody fairly experienced with you because it's easy to make a mistake and then kill yourself. Mushrooms have been researched a lot in cancers, so there is a lot of great research out there showing mushroom being effective against cancers. As I said before using multiple mushrooms is probably the best strategy but there are certain ones that are associated with certain cancers. I won't go into it too much because it will just be me reading a list of things but - breast cancer, cervical cancer, colorectal cancer, stomach cancer and liver cancer. All different kinds of cancer have had some evidence that some evidence that these mushrooms are helpful for them so if you're interested in that then it's worth the research.

Gaby: Another question from a chatter, 'Is kombucha actually a mushroom?'

Doug: No it's not. It gets referred to as a mushroom but it's actually not, it's a collection of yeast. It looks like a mushroom which is why people call it that but it's not actually a mushroom, it's a type of yeast.

Gaby: That was great information. It really piqued my interest.

Tiffany: There is a lot of sugar in kombucha so you have to be careful.

Doug: That's true.

Tiffany: Shall we go to the pet health segment?

Gaby: That's what I was going to say. Let's play some meows. Meow!

Zoya: Hello and welcome to the pet health segment of the health and wellness show. Today I'm going to share with you a story about a wonder drug from a natural source developed by a Russian scientist.

The story begins with one key discovery; in 1941 Vladimir Petrovich Filatov established a doctrine of biogenic stimulators which are formed in each cell of an isolated tissue in disadvantaged circumstances. That is, a cell as a result of the struggle of survival releases liquid biogenic stimulators and after their acclimatization to severe surrounding conditions they are subjected to biochemical reorganization in metabolic systems forming substances capable of rendering a stimulating influence to accelerate vital processes when administered by an organism. That's why those substances have been named biogenic stimulators. They are capable of strengthening the metabolism; they enhance physiological functions of the body, raise natural resistance and regenerative properties and also promote recovery.

In 1943 several laboratories across USSR received a secret government order to develop a new generation of medicine. This drug was supposed to protect humans and animals against radiation to significantly improve the immune system but also be affordable for mass production. Many research groups have not been able to complete this task. Only one institute of all union institutes of experimental veterinary medicine in 1947 was able to present a developed drug that met with all the requirements. The laboratory headed by a talented experimenter Dr. Dorogov used an unconventional approach in his work. For the raw material frogs, were used and the method of processing was thermal distillation of tissues with condensing fluids.

The prepared liquid had antiseptic, wound healing and stimulating properties. The drug is called ASD which is antiseptic stimulant of Dorogov. As I said Dorogov originally used frogs but later he began using meat and bone flour or powder. There was no difference in the resulting properties because the heat of the thermal sublimation erased the information about which kind of organism had been selected as a raw material.

The first fraction that was obtained is in fact simply water and did not have a biological value, the subsequent fractions - second and third - proved to be soluble in water, alcohol and fat substances with unique properties. It is the ASD fraction 2 and fraction 3 that are being used for the treatment of humans and animals. The drug has been comprised from many chemical substances with very complicated names but as an example - it contains carboxylic acids, aliphatic and cyclic hydrocarbons, substituted phenyls, aliphatic amides, and compounds with active sulfhydryl groups and water.

Why the drug is called the wonder? Well because as it turned out it could assist with healing absolutely everything, even heart cases and cancer. For example ASD fraction 3 is used only for external use. Experiments have shown that the drug effectively destroys various fungi, skin parasites and disinfects the wound. In addition ASD 3 officially only used in veterinary medicine has shown excellent results in treatment of various skin disorders such as acne, eczema, dermatitis, actinic dermatitis and ulcers. Moreover the ASD 3 effectively helped even psoriasis which at that time had no successful treatment. The experiments were actually carried out on people volunteers.

ASD fraction 2 was diluted with a water based solution and was used as an internal and external medicine. Experiments on animals have surpassed all expectations. The treatment of various diseases has been highly effective and has no side effects. The most successful results were achieved using ASD 2 in combination with other drugs.

I have a personal testimony regarding treating my pet with ASD 2. He is already elderly and he started to have bald patches particularly around his neck region. Obviously ticks and other creatures were ruled out first and giving him antihistamines for a period and such, but nothing helped. Then I applied ASD fraction 2 several times in the region, taking into account that he would probably try to lick it. Surprise, surprise shortly after a year new hair started to grow and my pet was all ok!

This drug can not only be used in cases of skin problems, there have been a huge number of trials for ASD 2 for the treatment of a number of pathologies of organs and systems. ASD 2 proved to be extremely effective for the treatment of asthma against which the medicine at that time has not yet found effective means. With the help of volunteers the effects of ASD 2 on humans were also tested. As a result of the effect of the drug on the body normal functions of various systems were restored like the endocrine, immune, nervous and other systems. Apparently it heals varicose veins and after prolonged use of the drug helped to improve the elasticity of the skin and tissues basically giving the effect of rejuvenation.

In the field of gynecology ASD 2 proved to be most effective healing all kinds of gynecological diseases. It assisted with healing fibroids, breast cancer and diseases of the uterus. As you may suspect, many in the medical world understood that this powerful drug is a big competitor to traditional methods of conservative treatment. Also many medical doctors were offended that a veterinarian developed a drug that may help humans too.

Many people at the top tried to stop Dorogov and offered him large rewards to stop further studies of ASD. They wanted him to either remove his name from the name of the drug or add names of other medical doctors. He was even accused of a crime but later acquitted of trying to commercially sell the drug when in reality in many cases he was offering it to people he knew for free. Big heads in the government still try to cause trouble to Dorogov by accusing him of his drug being dangerous and that it may cause death in humans. Not only was there not one death no matter how they tried to find it but stories of success were coming from everywhere.

They authorized extensive experiments on prisoners, especially on those sick with tuberculosis and it greatly reduced the percentage of deaths. In 1952 the drug was officially recognized and became really popular in Moscow, at the same time they continued to test its properties. Dorogov paid a heavy price for his discovery, he had to fight and withstand attacks from many who envied him and wanted to take credit for his work.

In 1954 he had a heart attack and was dismissed from the institute of veterinary medicine despite his pleas he wasn't allowed to get his job back, despite the fact that he was awarded the state prize for his invention. About a year after his dismissal his laboratory was disbanded. The scientist died in the autumn of 1957 before the age of 50 years. One of the sites in English that sells this claims that he died in a suspicious car crash but I am not sure if these claims are true because they didn't even write the age of the scientist correctly.

Until this moment there are claims that Dorogov's creation is nothing but pseudoscience, something akin to alchemy. His daughter Olga, who continues his work claims that there is nothing pseudo in his drug because it is based on the same principles as other accepted methods of treatment. Dorogov believed that just as charcoal has solvent properties, products of organic ASD can serve as deactivators and those prevent harmful effects on the body.

If the drug is so wonderful why wasn't it approved until now and is being used only in the veterinarian field and primarily in dermatology? Knowing how big pharma works we can pretty much figure out the answer to this question.

To summarize, the drug does not have a double name by chance; antiseptic stimulant. In the title lies the essence of the impact of the drug on the body - pronounced anti-bacterial effect combined with adaptogenic function. ASD is not rejected by living cells as it corresponds to its structure, it crosses the placental barrier and does not cause side effects, it restores hormonal imbalance, normalizes the peripheral nervous system and increases the body's resistance to various harmful influences. Basically, it is classified as a tissue biogenic stimulator, it can be used in both animals and humans; in humans primarily ASD fraction 2 is being used. ASD 2 is not fighting germs but increases the body's resistance and defences so they will do their job in the best way possible.

Immunomodulatory properties of ASD are based on the fact that the drug can be easily integrated in the metabolic processes of the human body, it restores the normal functioning of cells for optimal operation of all the body systems. There are various sites primarily in Russian that have specific treatment protocols for ASD 2 for various diseases.

The only problem with this drug is that it has an absolutely horrible strong and stinky smell and I am not exaggerating. Apparently they tried to remove this smell but unfortunately it is unavoidable because removing the smell also removes its biogenic functions. This is a small price to pay for something that has more advantages than disadvantages.

In any case, I myself have never tried it but have read a lot of testimonies from people who were able to heal all kinds of diseases using ASD 2. But what is for sure is that you can try it on your pets but also following instructions. This is it for today; I hope it was interesting and have a nice day!

Gaby: Thank you, Zoya.

Tiffany: Thanks for that Zoya. I guess we can move into our recipe of the day now since Johnathan is kind of incommunicado at the moment. I will share four thieves oil - just a little history of it - the four thieves were spice traders and merchants and they imported spices from India then the black plague hit and all trade was shut down so the thieves needed to find a way to support themselves.

During the black plague there were a lot of dead bodies so the thieves thought that it would be a good idea to into people's homes and loot them and take their clothes and jewelry and pots and pans and then barter them for food or money. They thought they wouldn't get sick if they rubbed vinegar, oils and certain spices on their body. I guess it worked because they didn't die.

The king found out about it and demanded that they give up their secret recipe. There are about four or so recipes but I'll just share one - what you want to do is get your oils:
40 drops of clove essential oil
35 drops of lemon essential oil
20 drops of cinnamon essential oil
15 drops of eucalyptus essential oil
10 drops of rosemary essential oil
People have used one drop of each essential oil into an ounce of water and you can use it to spray around your house and clean windows. If you add a drop of the thieves' oil to 4 drops of carrier oil like coconut oil then you can use it for a skin massage. You can also diffuse it; it'll clean the air in your house and eliminate odors. So that's the four thieves' oil.

I've actually made something similar, it's vinegar of the four thieves and you can get equal parts of lavender, sage, thyme, lemon balm, hyssop, peppermint and a handful of garlic cloves and you blend all the ingredients in a glass jar then you cover them with organic unpasteurized apple cider vinegar and you cold infuse it which means you let it sit at room temperature in a cool place; you let it sit for 6 weeks and after that you strain off all the herbs and the garlic then you can use it as a salad dressing.

Gaby: That sounds nice.

Tiffany: Erykah has used the four thieves' oil and she puts it on the bottom of her feet before bed [Laughter] and she says it fights everything.

Gaby: [Laughing] Excellent news, that's good to know.

Tiffany: The four thieves' vinegar is pretty tasty, I've tried it before; it's good.

Gaby: I haven't tried it but I'll do it. It's also interesting to see that you can clean up stuff with that so that's good. Because normally disinfectant and stuff is very toxic and I'm not sure the organic version is organic enough so it sounds like a really good option.

Tiffany: Erykah says it's good to put on your feet if you can't tolerate to take it by mouth. So is that our herb show for the moment? I think we have covered a lot of stuff; there is a lot to talk about. Be careful with your herbs, get a good book, consult an herbalist and remember that diet is a foundation. Don't just throw herbs down your throat willy-nilly. Make sure you know what you're doing and only use them for brief periods. Don't use them all the time. You won't get to the root cause of whatever you're suffering from. Ideally use them with food.

So that's our show for today folks, we'll be back next Friday; we'll have a special guest.

Gaby: Thanks for listening, bye, bye everybody!