Remember how we were told to eat all our veggies when we were younger because they were good for us? Is that really true? On this week's show, we took a look at the myth of the 'balanced diet' as promoted by the USDA and other state agencies. Mass cultivation of grains and vegetables has had devastating consequences for the planet's biosphere, not least the one billion-plus people who go hungry daily, a top soil exhausted of the basic nutrients for growing crops, and a mechanized global food industry that poisons the environment at every stage of production.

GMOs are promoted by Big Agribusiness as the answer to global food shortages, but independent studies indicate that genetically modified food is not fit for human or animal consumption. GMOs are already prevalent in the food supply so is it too late to stop Monsanto's world takeover? And is there really a food shortage to begin with? If Goldman Sachs and other market predators can pocket $400 million in 2012 alone from betting against the price of food, then commodity prices are clearly distorted. So what is the real outlook for food supply and demand?

People who seek healthy options appear to be hemmed in on all sides, but perhaps if we look to the past, we can find a way out? Our ancestors survived Ice Ages on paleo diets that were high in meat and saturated fats, and distinctly low on carbs. Tens of thousands of people experimenting with 'going paleo' have reported excellent health results -- results that the Big Agribusiness and Big Pharma-sponsored scientific establishment said should not have happened.

But they did, and now, on the eve of global civilization's collapse - due in large part to its addiction to increasingly refined carbs - word is getting around that saturated fat is where it's at.

Running Time: 02:13:00

Download: MP3

Here's the transcript:

SOTT Talk Radio show #7: Sunday, March 10th, 2013:

Paleo food: Healthy eating in a GMO world


Joe: Hello, and welcome to Sott Talk Radio. As usual, I'm Joe Quinn, and with me again is Niall Bradley.

Niall: Hello to all.

Joe: And this week also we have back again Laura Knight-Jadczyk.

Niall: Welcome, Laura.

Laura: Oh, hi!

Joe: And also we have Juliana Barembuem.

Niall: Welcome, Juliana.

Juliana: Hello!

Joe: Everybody know me and Niall, more or less, or maybe not. Everybody knows Laura, but...yes, Laura?

Laura: Yeah, go ahead.

Joe: Julianna is a multi-linguist, a researcher for, and, and a healthy-eating enthusiast, just like the rest of us. This week we are going to talk about, as our title of our show states, "Paleo Food: Healthy Eating in a GMO World". In the intro to this show, the recorded into music, you heard Laura state, at some point long ago, that we are doomed to destruction because of agriculture.

Laura: Extinction!

Joe: Well, okay. Extinction by destruction?

Laura: Either way.

Joe: Okay. So that's the topic of our show this week. We are going to straight into it by talking about a recent study, unless Laura has something to tell me.

Laura: I do have something to say.

Joe: Laura has something that she wants to say.

Laura: Yeah. He can look at me and tell that I had something to say.

Joe: I could see it by the look on her face.

Laura: Yeah. I just want to tell on these guys, you know. I'm sitting here at a table with two guys from Ireland, and neither of them has ever kissed the Blarney Stone! (laughter)

We were having this little conversation before we went on the air, this little while ago, and we had a serious plan for the show. He's got all his research and he knows what we're gonna talk about, and when we're gonna say it, and he waves the baton and directs us like an orchestra.

Niall: He does not! (laughter)

Laura: I'm just teasing a little. Joe of course, he handles the button-pushing and keeps everything going, and saves us from our own errors.

Joe: Yep!

Laura: So they're saying, what are we going to talk about? Why don't you have a plan here, Niall? Because Niall doesn't have a complete plan like he usually has. I said, "Well, you know, you can just talk and ad lib." So I said to Niall, "Did you ever kiss the Blarney Stone?" and he says, "No." Then Joe said, "I didn't kiss it either!" Tell us why you didn't want to kiss the Blarney Stone, Joe.

Joe: Because you never know where it's been.

Laura: (laughing)

Joe: I saw it, and that was enough.

Laura: I see.

Joe: But I thought you were going to introduce as you were sitting here with two Irish guys who wouldn't know the back of a cart from the front end, or some other something like that. Just as a topic of comment on our....

Laura: No, no, no, no. No, now that I've told on the two Irish guys who have never kissed the Barney Stone. I'm going to make a little comment I think, about this idea of being doomed to extinction because of agriculture. It really seems to be so, but the thing that occurred to me, as I was listening to that recording of me from some radio or tv interview I did, that's where they snatched it [from]. It made me think of the age-old conflict between agriculture and the eating of meat as represented in the, one of the older texts of our civilization, the Bible. The conflict between Cain and Abel. As everybody probably knows, and if they don't, I don't know what's going on with religious education nowadays. Cain killed his brother Abel because God favoured Abel's sacrifice over Cain's. And what were the differences between the sacrifices? Cain's sacrificed a living creature, probably a sheep or a lamb, or something like that. And Cain offered the first fruits of his garden, probably grain. So apparently didn't like that. He wanted meat, and he wasn't going have anything to do with the bread part. So he was favourable towards Abel in some way, we have no idea how his favour was being demonstrated, but Cain got really upset and he killed his brother. The first murder in history, supposedly. I'm being a little facetious.

Joe: His favour was being demonstrated by not killing him.

Laura: (Laughing) The thing is that, this goes back to the very deepest parts of our origins. There's an old Sufi story that the Fall in Eden came about because of the introduction of agriculture, which kind of ties in to this idea that the Fall from Eden wasn't necessarily from eating an apple, done by Adam and Eve. But rather had to do with the split between agriculture and the eating of meat. It's really kind of symbolic of a lot of other things, that we have this conflict and that it is so deep, because the fact is, apparently not only does God not like agriculture, the planet doesn't either because agriculture; if you've read Lierre Kieth's great book The Vegetarian Myth, you'll know the destruction that agriculture to our planet.

Not only has it raped and plundered the planet, scarred it, damaged it through various means, not only the taking the topsoil off and destroying forests and dumping fertilizers on that run into the sea and then kill the animals in the sea, but it has also allowed two or three other things to happened, that would not have happened to a meat-eating nomadic society. The main on is the increase in a population. Because women who are on the Paleolithic diet do not have as many fertile periods as women who eat carbohydrates. They don't have as; sometimes they even go a long time without periods. They're, the population doesn't grow in the same way in nomadic societies as it does in a settled agricultural society. And of course you know, in a settled agricultural society, you need a lot of people to work those fields, and that's one of the reasons they encouraged the increase of the population. You get more people to rape and pillage more of the planet so they can pile up more grain to put in the storehouses for the elite masters of the world, who then dispense it to some criteria for who gets favour and who doesn't. So it's all, it's something that's under the control of a hierarchy.

So you see that it's not just the damage to the planet, it's also the fact that agriculture made cities possible, agriculture made hierarchical governments possible. Those things led to more and more technology so that people could get more and more agriculture done, and rape and pillage the planet even more. The very foundational element is agriculture. Forcing the planet to yield that more than what it would in a natural cyclical way. And by this forcing, we have borrowed on the future. We have taken resources from the planet that it can't replace except in millions and millions of years. When you get to the point you have to start using petroleum-based products to make fertilizer, to replenish the soil to grow food, I mean, come on! You're dipping down there into the ground and you're taking resources that have taken a very long time; I'm not going to get into the deal about abiotic oil or whether oil is made by dead, compressed dinosaurs. But when you start dipping into resources that have accumulated in the earth over thousands, millions of years, to produce food for now, what do you do when you run out of that? And the earth will produce no more. And say you have seven, eight, nine billion people on the planet, and the earth will produce no more because everything has been stripped and you have borrowed....

Joe: It sounds like...

Laura: It's debt. It's living in debt.

Joe: It sound like plenty of fertilizer for the earth.

Laura: Well, yeah! (inaudible)

Joe: In terms of the dead bodies.

Laura: Nine billion people dying all over the planet will definitely make it..

Joe:...will replenish the soil. (chuckling)

Laura: That's for sure. Really, if you think about it, that's just the very short version of how we got into this mess that we're in. But there is a far more sinister side to the agriculture story, and it has to do with hierarchies, and control, and I think it I'm going to hand it over to Juliana, because she is just dying to get in here and say something. She's just sitting there waving her fingers in the air.

Juliana: No, I was just going to add because you mentioned The Vegetarian Myth, and when she talked about this increase in population, she says we're living in a phantom carrying capacity, carrying capacity is defined, is calculated by the number of people living in a given manner, that's what she says, 'a given environment can support indefinitely'. Now that's what the agro-industry is trying to sell, that GMO and all modern agriculture is sustainable. But when we look at the effect on the earth, it's not. It's really not indefinite. And that's what they try to make us believe, but the fact is, soil is destroyed, like you said, the soil is destroyed, rivers are destroyed. There are no resources left. So what the outcome of that has got to be destruction brought upon by agriculture. Just from the simple equation, 'what can the planet, how many people can the planet feed in an unsustainable manner?' It's not very long!

Laura: No. Especially now when we're dipping into our future.

Joe: Um-hmm. It sounds a bit machiavellion to me to, like you mentioned, that people eating grains and carbs produce more children. And those children then are needed, as adults, to produce more..

Laura: To produce more grain and carbs. produce more grain, as essentially a slave class or an underclass, at least in a lot of parts of of the world, they're poorly paid to produce the grains that are needed to feed all the people. It's a kind of negative feedback loop going on, you know?

Juliana: And when the land that you're exploiting gets depleted, you go on [to] expand, conquer other territories and stuff. So it's all attached to imperialism. Not only from the human point of view, but also from the geographical point of view. I mean, why did they need wars?

Joe: Uh-huh.

Laura: Well just think about it. We live in a civilization that pays great honour to origins of our so-called 'civilization', i.e., Mesopotamia. Mesopotamia, the "Fertile Crescent", is what it was called. They don't call it that anymore because it's pretty much a desert. The entire Fertile Crescent is a desert. It has suffered desertification. But it was the place where agriculture began, and as a consequence of agriculture, cities were built. These vast city-states that warred with each other continuously. Not only did they have cities, but they had enormous, incredible slave populations. These people were, I mean if you think you understand what it is to be slave, in the modern conception, you have no idea. These people literally were treated as if they were animals. They were even thought of as if they were animals. They were not accepted to have souls, and I don't know that anybody has a soul, but the conception at the time was that they were no better than animals. So they had not only a slave population, they built cities, they had a hierarchical governments, mainly with a king and a vast bureaucracy. They had organized religion and they also, supposedly invented writing. And of course, writing was developed from the very beginning as a means to keep track of the donations to the temple or to the king or the government, of your produce. They wanted everyone to be taxed, everybody had to produce, everybody had to donate, and the only way they could keep track of this was to make lists. If they started out making tally marks, and then having symbols that stood for a person, and then people had cylinders-seals and so forth, for their businesses or whatever. But eventually it developed into a form of writing. So all of the, oh, and also they had the wheel. The wheel was absolutely necessary to haul the grain around.

Literally everything that we consider to be quote civilized unquote: cities, writing, the wheel, you know, bureaucratic, administrative government, organized religion; all of these things stem from this agricultural, planet-destroying concept. Nobody ever really stops to think about it. They think, 'oh, we have cities, we have wheels, we have writing, we have this, we have that' bla ba blah. And they don't even stop to consider the origins of it, the meaning of it, and where it has taken us. If you just look around yourself, at where we are, teetering on the brink of total destruction based on what I read in the news everyday, this is where we are. How did we get here? We're supposed to be human beings. We're supposed to have advanced. We have enormous technology, but we have absolutely no moral compass. No values. Nothing. It's all been stripped away from us. The most heroic think that we can think of is to play a video game or send a rover to the planet Mars or to the Moon or something. Those are our heroes. Mechanical, destructive elements. And they're not satisfied to rape and pillage the earth. Now they talk about mining asteroids, mining on the moon, mining on Mars. They've used up everything on this freaking planet, and now they want to go get it from the other planets. Do you think Mother Nature's gonna let that happen? Ha! I don't think so.

Joe: Modern technology does not require agriculture. Would you agree?

Laura: I would agree.

Joe: We can have all of our modern toys and conveniences without stripping the planet bare of its natural resources. What do you think, Niall.

Niall: Well, this idea that we're buying, we're brashly stealing from the future to feed now, is just gone up a whole other level in the last thirty years, with GMOs. I mean this is agriculture on steroids, literally. And worse things, where i's presented as a sustainable solution. In other words, something that can actually bring us back into the natural carrying capacity of the planet. It couldn't be further from the truth.

Joe: Absolutely.
Niall: It's digging in deeper to that future, to resources that we don't have. GMOs are boasted as yielding higher, producing higher crop yields; they produce less. As being more environmentally friendly; they pollute more because you need pesticides just to keep the thing going.

Joe: Um-hmm.

Niall: The denial between the idea of GMOs, and where it's projected, and how amazing it's going to be; it's gonna feed the world and save the world, and the reality... it's just incredible.

Laura: Maybe there's a connection between what Joe just said. That with all this technology, you don't need so much agriculture because once you've got the technology, you only need a certain number of people to keep things going and maintain it. Because once you've used up all the agriculture to build the cities, get the civilization to a certain level where technology can be created and developed, the people who were the foundation of it all become superfluous. You don't need them anymore, and maybe, maybe there's a connection between that fact and the promotion of agriculture. Because from the very beginning, agriculture has been shown to diminish the health of the individual. Archaeological studies show that as soon as agriculture was introduced, human beings became smaller, more disease-prone, they had more types of conditions and diseases, bone problems, teeth problems. Any archaeologist can tell you, by looking at the teeth, of the bones or a skull that he finds in the dig, whether they were involved in agriculture or whether they were meat-eaters by their teeth, because the meat-eaters don't have cavities, they don't have bone diseases. The people who engaged in agriculture all have bone diseases and they have lots and lots of cavities; really bad teeth. So, that's always been present. But now it has increased, it has accelerated to an exponential extent, and perhaps, just perhaps, there's meaning in that. Because, as Ivan Pavlov proved, the strongest dogs, the most resistant to being reprogrammed, can be broken and programmed if their health is destroyed first.

Joe: Absolutely. I've got a call here, so we'll go ahead and take it.

Caller: Hello?

Joe: Hi, what's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: Hi, this is Corey. I'm calling from Iowa, the US, in the mid-west.

Joe: Hi, Corey! Okay.

Corey: I just wanted to bring up the fact that I read on the news the other day, that about 80% of the students graduating from New York City weren't able to do basic reading and writing skills, and they had to re-learn it. I was wondering if you could kind of talk about that too.

Laura: You mean talk about the dumbing down of humanity because..

Corey: Yeah!

Laura:...their brains are getting smaller and turning to much because of their agricultural[ly]-based diet? Is that what you want me to talk about there? We've already talked about the fact that the people; I mean, think about it, evolutionarily these people are saying, "Oh, we should eat like our hominid ancestors or our hominid cousins.", you know, monkeys, chimpanzees, gorillas. And I say to them, "Look, they are still monkeys, chimpanzees and gorillas!" We started to eat meat, and we became HUMAN! Get a clue there. So all of these people going off on these vegetarian, vegan, high-grain diets, fruitarians, blah-ba-blah, raw, steamed, baked, broiled or fried, whatever.

Joe: They're eating like animals.

Laura: Yeah, they're eating like animals. Not only that, but they are, their brains are shrinking. There are news stories about it. The brain sizes, the average brain size of a human being in the population is shrinking. There's even specific articles that say the brains of vegetarians are shrinking. Now of course we know that brain size isn't everything. Einstein didn't have a brain the size of the Incredible Hulk or anything. And there are people who have very small brains, or diminished brains, or damaged brain, who function perfectly well, and who got advanced degrees in university when their skull is basically full of air. Nevertheless...

Joe: Your brain uses fat for energy. Saturated fat.

Laura: Yes.

Joe: Not vegetable fat.

Corey: I know. Absolutely. I totally agree with that.

Laura: I am not surprised that the people, the kids in New York graduating, can't read and write and do basic mathematics. What is really startling to me is that people don't realize the social cost of this. It's not just the cost to the society itself because people are incompetent to manage their own lives, you know, balance their checkbooks, read enough literature to be able to know how to behave with one another, which is a pretty important thing. But that they actually have to be re-trained. Somebody has to spend money, create a program, fund it, get these people in there to teach them in some further night-time education class how to read, write and balance their checkbook, because they didn't learn it in the school system, which is already costing a mint. It's staggering.

Joe: And does that serve the purpose of the Powers That Be, to have a population that cannot think?

Corey: Yeah. Absolutely. I'm a tutor. I tutor some people at my college, and I've been surprised because what we're trying to learn [is] some basic algebra and they couldn't even do arithmetic. They could not subtract numbers. These were people who were in their thirties. I was, I've just been appalled by that. It's frightening. It really is a frightening, frightening fact. So, thank you.

Juliana: There's also the fact that, like Laura was saying, brain size is not everything, but when you look at the effects that these grains are having, and these carbohydrates are having on people, not just vegetarians, but anybody who eats a high-carbohydrate diet. It's all related. I mean, apart from the inflammation and physical symptoms that the person will get, they'll get inflammation in the brain, they'll get memory loss, they'll get Alzheimers, Parkinsons, lack of concentration, when your brain is just not feeding on the proper fuel. No matter what your brain size is, you're still not gonna use it to the full capacity.

Joe: Yeah.

Juliana: So no wonder they're dumbing down people. Plus, grains have this, and the grains that are feeding most of the population, have opioids, which make you addicted to them, so you can't just stop eating them very easily. And it's just a vicious circle. How are you gonna be able to think after eating all that?

Joe: How are you going to be able to realize, or think your way through the idea that what you're eating is bad for you, if you can't think properly?

Niall: And it's not just affecting the 80% of college graduates who cannot read and write when they leave school. It's not college; it's the high school kids. It's clearly affecting the people who write the policy. Whatever you (??) about the Powers That Be. The average government employee has not put two and two together and said, "Well what are we going to do to solve this problem? Let's get some after-school classes." No, they don't see that it's staring them in the face. It's their diet.

Joe: Yeah.

Niall: People in the Department of Health, in the government, you know, functionaries and stuff like that? I mean, they're hopped up on corn flakes, so how are they going to figure out the solution to their problem?

Joe: Anyway, Corey. Thanks for your call.

Corey: Thank you!

Niall: Thanks, Corey. Take it easy.

Corey: Bye.

Joe: We have another call here, so we're gonna go with that one.

Niall: Okay.

Joe: Hi.

Caller: Hi there.

Joe: Hi caller, what's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: Hi, this is Genevieve calling from Indiana.

Joe: Hi Genevieve.

Laura: Hi.

Niall: Welcome.

Genevieve: How are you guys doing?

Niall: Pretty good. Very good thank you.

Laura: We're sitting in our garage studio wearing sweaters.

Genevieve: Oooh, it sound chilly.

Niall: It's not that bad.

Genevieve: I didn't know it was a garage studio. That's a neat picture in my mind.

Niall: We might start a garage band.

Genevieve: I was actually calling, I'm sorry? Go ahead.

Joe: Uh, no. Carry on. (Niall: I was just...)

Joe: Go ahead, Genevieve.

Genevieve: It's interesting. You are what you eat. And I've grown up with that saying in my mind. I'm a young women in my early to mid-thirties, I will say, and I was a vegetarian for thirty-one years. I was having trouble comprehending and really going deeper and further into all the materials I've been wanting to read and research. Finally I thought, okay, time to take a look at diet. For ten months now, I've been following the Paleo regime, and oh my goodness! So I don't know how much damage I did for in that time...

Laura: What a difference, huh?

Genevieve: Oh my goodness, my a, I would say that my down days are less. I have more energy. My thinking's definitely clearer. And I'm excited to spread the word to anybody who will listen to me yammer on and on about it.

Niall: That's great, Genevieve!

Genevieve: So I guess it's kind of a testament to...I'm not completely...I'm not, I haven't gone completely ketogenic yet, but I'm definitely on the route. So it's a testament to the Paleo lifestyle. Cutting out carbs and [using] animal fat for energy.

Juliana: That's great!

Laura: Isn't nice to be able to eat and actually satisfied with a small amount of food?

Genevieve: It's amazing. Two small meals a day. And the whole, 'oh, you have to have fruits and vegetables'. Oh, no you don't.

Laura: Yeah. Forget that.

Genevieve: Well, actually..

Joe: That's what some of the...

Genevieve:..if it works for you, then, you go ahead.

Joe: That's one of the things that a lot of the people talking about the Paleo diet and that promote it, they seem to, the ones that I've seen anyway, seem to include, even before they mention protein and fat, animal protein and fat, they talk about nuts, and fruit and vegetables.

Genevieve: Um-hmm. That was my, what I did before. Lentils, peanuts, and I found out that it was all wrong, and that a lot of those actual 'nutritious foods' aren't so nutritious, and can actually be damaging to the body.

Joe: Yeah, so as far as we're concerned Paleo, the Paleo diet doesn't really include regular consumption of nuts and fruits and vegetables. The Paleo diet should be, largely, animal protein and fat.

Juliana: Yeah, Genevieve mentioned the ketogenic diet. Maybe everybody knows what it is? Maybe we should just give a little...

Laura: Go ahead. Do it!

Juliana: Well, basically, it's just that you eat roughly 80% saturated fat from animals and the rest is animal protein, and what else? That's pretty much it. Remember Laura, last show, you mentioned the people who survived the plague, mostly with bone broth and meat broth. Well, that it, people! It's just broth every day, made from marrow bones or any kind of bones...

Laura: With some added fat.

Juliana:...added fat.

Laura: Little bits of meat.

Juliana: Very, very fatty meat. The most, the best kind of quality you can find, and vegetables are kind of like a 1% thing, if that.

Laura: There's two things we add into this. There are some bugs in the program. The bugs that we have found are that, first of all, when you're eating meat, you're eating the flesh of creatures that consume plants. If the planet itself has already been stripped of most of its nutrients in the soil, then the nutrients that the animals are going to get are going to be somewhat stripped also. One of the main minerals that is lacking is magnesium, and it's extremely important in nearly every single function in your body. You probably may need to add some magnesium. Second of all, there was a mutation in some Celtic person, probably one of you guys' Irish relatives, you know, what can I say?

Joe: Whatever! (laughter)

Laura: Back about two thousand years ago, that has lead to the condition called hemochromatosis, where your body stores too much iron. This is a very adaptive mutation during times of starvation, when you have very little meat, because your body gets all the iron it can get, and it hangs on to it. But if you're getting plenty of meat, lots of meat, as you would if you were on a paleolithic diet, then you might get a little too much iron. You'll have to go and be a blood donar at regular intervals just to keep your iron unloaded. Otherwise, your health would be fine. So I would just say that there are a couple of bugs in the program. People shouldn't go out, without being tested, and immediately start chowing down on pork chops and bacon. You should be tested and you should keep these things in mind. You should certainly read all the literature about it so that you know the warning signs of when you may possibly be suffering from some sort of deficiency which can occur. But there is far less deficiency in lacking the element magnesium, or getting too much iron. Interestingly enough, if you get plenty of magnesium it kind of prevents the absorption of the iron,...

Juliana: And potassium.

Laura: And potassium, than the horrible, horrible disease processes that have taken over our planet. Autoimmune diseases are just absolutely epidemic in our world, due to the fact that people are eating so many carbohydrates.

Juliana: But I imagine that you didn't go cold turkey from the beginning, right?

Genevieve: Ah, no, I did not. I started gradually eliminating first carbs, then sugar. Then I introduced fish and then white meat, and then finally up to the red meat. It's, like I said, it's been a ten-month long process, and I'm still not completely there yet. (inaudible)

Juliana: Well, I would say that it's been kind of ideal because for a lot of people, even if you're scared, I mean, going from a standard, normal diet to just, what we're talking about here, is really, really hard. So what we've learned, and people in the Cassiopaean Forum have done, and seems to have worked for them, is to first, cut out gluten. All grains basicallly.

Genevieve: (inaudible) gluten too.

Juliana: Then dairy.... yeah, then progressively reduce the amount of sugars and carbs, and that includes grains, fruits and actual sugar. Then once you that, even if you do it as a challenge, say, you give yourself a month, and then see how you feel. Then three months, and see how you feel. Then try eating a little bit of gluten again, and see the effect it's going to have. I mean, you start feeling so great, that you just don't want to touch the stuff anymore. Then you don't need to go... just eat 80% fat, because your body's gonna need some time to adapt and all that. It's really a progressive, a process really.

Genevieve: You really don't realize how sick you are, and allergic you are to these foods until you stop them. And like you said, try gluten. My husband, I had a partner in this, and my husband also stopped the gluten and started the Paleo with me. And we both cheated, if you will, and had chocolate cake on his mother's birthday. Boy did we feel like crap the next two days! We realized that it's just not worth it!

Juliana: Right!

Genevieve: You don't....

Juliana: People just don't know how...

Genevieve: Oh, we didn't know....

Juliana: People just don't know how tired they are

Genevieve: Oh, no. Not at all. I thought I was okay, but something wasn't clicking. I wasn't comprehending things the way I wanted. Putting things together in my mind the way I thought I should. I thought, okay, there's something wrong here. That is when I started to do the research, and I did check out the Cassie site, and some of the threads. I should be more actively involved. Maybe this will kickstart me into going back in and actually reading more, but, yeah, it's got to be a slow process. My worldview changed. I was a born and raised vegetarian. Although I always had all the feelings that to each his own, that's there's got to be some middle ground to truth there. I was in shock for a while, obviously. Realized that my parent were, they were trying to do the right thing, but it wasn't right. Anyway, now I'm feeling much better. (inaudible)

Laura: I am so glad to hear it, Genevieve!

Joe: All right, thanks for your call.

Genevieve: Well thanks for taking my call.

Laura: Thank you sweetie!

Everyone: Bye!

Genevieve: Bye, bye. Thanks for the show.

Joe: All right. This seems to be a hot topic, because we have another caller on the line here. Hi

Caller: Hello. Is this? Can you hear me?

Joe: Yes! What's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: I'm Anthony. I'm calling from Oram, Utah. One of the very few people in this area that has followed along for a few years on the FOTCM and that kind of site. I wanna just tell you about some of the Paleo diets that I've ran into, and some of the misinformation of what the medical industry does, and my experiences with it.

Joe: Go for it.

Anthony: The year 2000, I had a gastric bypass. And if you're familiar with that, they kind of mutilate the stomach, and uh...

Laura: oh yea...

Anthony:..but the key with the gastric bypass was going into protein diets, and it was a ketogenic-type diet, and I lost a lot of weight. The only reason why they do the gastric bypass is the ability to have an aversion of food. So they make you not be able to eat, and then they shove high protein diet. All of the sudden you start losing weight, and people think it's a miracle. But that's main ability of these gastric bypasses. And by the way, I had two of them.

Joe: Wow

Laura: Why??

Anthony: The first one, when they did the surgery, part of my stomach became fused to my diaphram.

Laura: Not pleasant.

Anthony: And I was having pain. Pardon?

Laura: That's not pleasant.

Anthony: No. So they had to go back and kind of re-tie up everything. But being part Italian, it's too hard for me to get away from pasta. So my weight kind of went back up, because of, you know, the starches that I eat. I'm trying to go back to the ketogenic-type diet of high proteins and only high proteins and very few vegetable is basically what they...

Laura: So you're currently, right now you're eating pasta after being on a ketogenic diet and having lost a lot of weight. Let me ask you, on this diet did they allow you to have some bread and things, now and then?

Anthony: Occasionally, but it was very sparingly. They did not want to you to have any kind of starches.

Laura: 'Cause one of the things that we have learned is, that if you are strictly Paleo or keto, keto in particular, it's really, really much better. You actually lose the cravings. You begin, your body begins to feel satisfied. You eat much less, and you lose the cravings. Because for me, it was just so amazing to lose all cravings for, you know, for starches, and that's not to say we don't sit around and say, "oh, remember that chocolate cake we ate ten years ago.", blah-ba-blah, and the ice cream that went with it, you know? And we'd sit there. And then we'd think immediately, what we would feel like if we ate that. Then we realized it just ain't worth it. It wasn't so attractive after all, because memories of the feeling of the few times that we have fallen off the wagon have so overwhelmed our minds and made us so aware of how bad we would feel, that it no longer seems so attractive.

Anthony: Oh, yes. I agree. And as I'm getting older, I can't eat that kind of level of refined sugars and carbohydrates anymore. It just makes me sick. Naturally my body is kind of just, to throw away. I know this when I eat a nice dish of pasta, or spaghetti, which is my weakness. My blood sugar really does go high after something like that.

Laura: Instead of that, why don't you just get a nice piece of ham, slice a piece of butter, roll it up in the ham, and eat that for a snack. Then you'll feel perfectly satisfied. You wouldn't want that pasta anymore.

Anthony: I agree. This is a matter of teaching myself to do that, and kind of doing more study and doing...There was one thing, you were talking about potassium and magnesium, and our lack of that. There was a product on the market, and I remember purchasing it in the eighties. It was called K-M. It was kind of like a liquid, colloidal of potassium and magnesium, a very high concentration of those two things. And you would have about an ounce or two a day, and it did really make me feel good, and feel much better. This was back in the eighties, of course. I can't find that product anywhere. Any kind of supplements that I want to find for potassium or magnesium are very weak in the ability to get any sufficient amount in the body. Most of the supplements for potassium is only 10% of the daily allowance as you see. It's crazy. This K-m was like four, five hundred percent of a daily dose. I can't find that anywhere. K-M, it was called K-M. It was the product that was multi-marketed, so...

Laura: I be you can find it on Amazon.

Anthony: I tried! They sell it anywhere.

Laura: Oh, no!

Anthony: They don't sell it anywhere. I don't know why, but it was like colloidal silver type of medication..

Laura: Supplement

Anthony:...or high concentration of that stuff. I can't find it.

Laura: Well are you gonna have any more surgeries, or are you gonna get a grip on this thing?

Anthony: (laughing) I'm not gonna have any more surgeries and I've got to, you know, not do half-cocked gun-type actions on doing these things.

Laura: Yeah, you need to research this topic. Do you know, speaking of gastric surgeries, there's one I was reading about the other day, and it was so bizarre, that I couldn't even finish reading the article because it was just disgusting. There are people who have permanent shunt inserted in their side, goes through their side and into the wall of their stomach. It's stitched inside so it's permanent. Then they are allowed to anything and everything they want. Then they attach a pump twenty minutes after they've eaten, and pump it all out.

Joe & Niall: Whoa....

Anthony: That's ridiculous.

Laura: That is so disgusting.

Anthony: When I did my gastric bypass my first one, they non-chalantly took out my gall bladder too, because that was just the standard procedure of that bypass. They figured, well you're overweight,...

Laura: So now you have problems eating meat.'re gonna have problems with your gall bladder. It was gone. They took it out. There was nothing the matter with it.

Laura: So now you have to have digestive enzymes to help you consume meat and fat, right?

Anthony: That's right. That's why it's so hard to continue eating fats and stuff because then my digestive system is polluted with, uh, out of balance. So they took that out too. It's hard for me to go back on the high-fat diet because then that (upsets?0 everything else.

Laura: You'll have to do some research and handle it very carefully, but I can tell you right now anybody, when you let those scalpel-jockeys get ahold of you're in dire, dire doo-doo.

Joe: Anthony, what was that supplement you were looking for that you said you couldn't find?

Anthony: It was a supplement in the eighties, multi-marketed around at least in Utah area, called KM.

Joe: Is it called Matol KM.

Anthony: No, it was just sold under the moniker of KM supplements.

Joe: 'Cause on the [internet], there's something called Matol KM, you might want to look at. I don't know if it's the same thing or not, but if you just google Matol KM.

Anthony: Matol? How do you spell Matol?

Joe: M-A-T-O-L.

Anthony: M-A-L-G-O-L...

Joe: I'm sorry, Matol, M-A-T-O-L KM.

Anthony: Okay. I'll take a look at it, because I don't know if...

Joe: Yeah, I don't know if it's the same thing. It talks about potassium and magnesium requirements for your body, you know.

Anthony: Yeah. Well, I appreciate the chat. It's an honor for me to talk to Laura. I've read your books.

Laura: Thank you sweetie!

Anthony: I think it's wonderful and a wonderful thing that you're doing, and I want to support you as much as possible.

Laura: Well, the best thing you can do for me is to take care of you.

Anthony: I agree. I agree very much. I drank the DMSO and smelled corn for a long time.


Joe: Go easy on that.

Anthony: That helped me a little bit.

Laura: Research first. Don't do anything you don't understand, okay? Kissy, kissy!

Anthony: Okay, appreciate it. Thank you.

Joe: All right, bye, bye.

Anthony: Bye.

Joe: All right, we got another....this is a hot topic, we've got another call here. We're gonna go with this one. Hi caller, what's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: Hi, I'm Joel. I'm calling from Brooklyn, New York.

Joe: Joel?

Caller: Joe.

Joe: Joe. Okay, I see that.

Niall: Yeah, we knew that.

Laura: Hey, Joe.

Joe: Hi.

Niall: Welcome.

Joe: Hi. This is such an honor. I'm so glad to meet the people, at least on the phone, who came up with the Eiriu Euolas program. It's helped me tremendously. I haven't really been able to listen on the radio, 'cause I'm out on the streets of New York right now, but I just really wanted to thank you for that. It's improved the quality of my life tremendously.

Juliana: Awwww.

Laura: Thank you! I am so glad.

Joe: Well, you know, my apartment in New York was in downtown Brooklyn, after the World Trade Center. All of that stuff came in my window, every single day.

Laura: Oh, no.

Joe: I got allergic to everything after that. I was allergic to dogs; I love dogs. I was allergic to grass. I was allergic to everything. The only thing that worked; and literally my allergies were so bad. It was like sneezing every day. It was like being stuck with knives everyday. The only thing that worked was the Eiriu Eolas program. I don't get colds, I don't get flus anymore. I don't have allergies any longer.

Laura: That's one of the real benefits of regular stimulation of the vagus nerve. It really, really, and I can't emphasize this enough, in having a technique to stimulate the vagus nerve, in a controlled way, is just one of the best health benefits you can give yourself.

Joe: It's so surprising. You know, you'd think, you get to a point in your life where you're living with this pain, and this discomfort. You think nothing is ever gonna work, and you just don't really hold out a lot of hope. It was very bizarre. After my first EE class, and my teachers were just, I mean they're amazing, amazing people. I don't know , you know, that there are even people like this around. They're incredible. It was like I went from one day of drinking probably a litre of soda, to the next day, not at all. Nothing, absolutely nothing. And that had never happened to me before. As a New Yorker, a lot of times what you resort to as your food of choice is a slice of pizza. So I was probably eating four slices of pizza a day, and then I did that from one day, and the next day not at all. It's bizarre. I'm having a hard time with sugar right now, and chocolate. I didn't for a year and a half, but now I'm sort going back to that. I need to, I don't know, get the willpower together, or something, to alter that part of it, because I wasn't having a problem, and now I am.

Joe: You know, you should make your own chocolate.

Laura: We do! Because as far as we're concerned, chocolate is one of the major food groups. Having a way to consume chocolate on a paleo diet was one our our primary research projects. And we have discovered ways to have really excellent chocolate.

Joe: You make it with butter.

Joe: Oh, that's good!

Joe: And cocoa powder and xylitol.

Laura: Yeah, you take pure cocoa powder and melt butter, and the you stir the chocolate in until it's really thick and then you add enough xylitol to sweeten it, taste as you go along.

Joe: Put it in a mold.

Laura: Put it in a mold, put it in the fridge, let it chill down, then pop it out of the mold, and you have pieces of wonderful, delightful, excellent chocolate. That's the simplest thing you could do. But we do things like...Go ahead.

Joe: Have you found that people have had problems with the xylitol? Because I think I'm having [problems], because I was using that. Then it sort of like, my kidneys or something. I was having problems with it. Because I liked it.

Laura: Some people do have problems with xylitol, yes. That's absolutely certain. There's another one you can use. You can use stevia. Try stevia if xylitol doesn't suit you. Different, you know, me personally, stevia leaves an aftertaste in my mouth, but other people, it doesn't. There are other people in the house here, who just think, you know, they swear by stevia. Try the different...

Joe: I'll try the stevia.

Laura:...just don't use any of those evil things like corn syrup, or artificial sweetners that...

Joe: Aspertame.

Laura: Aspertame, that kind of crap.

Juliana: It also might have something to do with the amount you have. For some people if they go over the limit, they might have more effect with xylitol and the amount of bacteria you have in your gut. So while you're healing you might have more reaction, or a stronger reaction to the xylitol. But when you're gut is in better shape, you can tolerate more.

Laura: 'Cause xylitol is anti-bacterial.

Joe: That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense, 'cause I've found that's the case with the DMSO. I had a really hard time at first, and now I don't have a hard time. Thank God, for that DMSO, because my back would really be bad, and that's the only thing that really works for it. I mean, thank God. And for arthritis and things like that. You guys have, I can't even believe it.

Laura: Well, I can tell you right now, I was in pain with rheumatoid arthritis after an illness that I experienced when I was nine years old. So from the time I was nine until 2008 when I finally went completely on the whole detox, worked my way into the Paleo diet, and then into the ketogenic diet. I have been pain-free for all of those years now. What? Four years? And to be pain-free after a life-time of intractable pain, intractable pain, is just like, for me, it's just like a miracle.

Joe: It's really, the allergy part for me has been a miracle. It also starts to bring up emotional issues. What it has given me more of is an emotional intelligence. I don't know how to put it exactly, but it's like I can start to see the programs that contribute...when I first got on the program, I lost a lot weight immediately, right around the middle, that I could never have lost before. I also noticed that weight contained some sort of psychological programming, or emotional programming.

Laura: I agree.

Joe: As I lost it, it's not just weight, it's not just fat, it's psychological trauma and things...

Laura: It's old stuff.

Joe: So, that's what I have more of a difficulty, and that's what EE helps me with. It's gaining some sort emotional, psychological intelligence that I didn't have before. Because I'd always go to, like, repressing it, or eating something, or something. Doing something. Something in order to cover it up. It's like discomfort. The way I cope with it is either to stuff it back down, or ignore it, or instead of actually...

Laura: Eat!

Joe: coming to terms with it.

Laura: Do you read or participate on our forum?

Joe: I do a little bit. I haven't been doing as much. I read the forum daily and..

Laura: As long as you read, you'll keep up with all of the material we come up with, because it sounds to me like you're pretty much on the right way, and if you keep doing the EE program, and for me the most important part is doing the nighttime meditation before you go to sleep. To me that's the greatest thing. If you do that, it sounds to me like you're on a good path, a good track to really recover your health after that 9/11 disaster.

Joe: It's also like, if I have to do POTS [Prayer of the Soul] five time a day, I'll do it five times a day. That's more of a psychological issue, because I've found also with the eating of certain things like you lower your ??, you lower your frequency or something. Then you start having really bad dreams, or you start's like that negative air you can get around you. Especially being here in New York, it's very easy to do. People walking down the street, and it can compound itself. So if I at least listen to POTS a few times a day, or to start off my day, or to end my day...because I've been reading the forum. People have really bad dreams and negative things. And I can sense in their writing, they don't think that this is really kinda gonna help, but it does. I can tell you like...

Laura: It really, really releases all of that.

Anthony: It does. And there's a protection or something to go along with it. I don't want to make it new age-y or anything, but there's a certain protection that goes along with that. It help to create some sort of....

Joe: So what you're really saying is people need to give EE a go. I just want, since you've been talking about it Joe, I just wanted to give people the website address. The program is called Eiriu Eolas and at Joe, thanks very much for your call.

Joe: I don't want to take up any more of your time. Thanks so much for all the shows and....

Laura: Thank you for calling,

Joe: ...Jason's been excellent, too! Okay? Thanks a lot.

Laura: Kissy, kissy, bye, bye.

Juliana: Bye!

Joe: All right, we have another caller here. Sorry for keeping you on hold for so long. What's your name and where are you from?

Caller: Betsy, and I'm in North Carolina.

Joe: Betsy!

Niall: Welcome, Betsy.

Juliana: Hello.

Laura: Hi, honey chile!

Betsy: How ya'll doin'?

Niall: Very good.

Joe: How are you?

Betsy: I'm doing well. Enjoying the radio show again.

Joe: Okay.

Betsy: The one thing I wanted to bring up, is what I think a lot about vegetarianism, they do it because of the horrible way animals are treated in the meat industry.

Laura: We agree.

Betsy: I've a lot of friends battling with this, and it's true. Commercial meat; these animals are kept in horrific conditions. They're tortured, and a lot of people are avoiding meat just for that reason. We can't just go and say we need to start eating meat. It takes a little more preparation than that. We need to revitalize our farm industry. Our local pigs, and cows, and goats, and chickens in the backyard type of industry.

Laura: Absolutely!

Betsy: I understand. I have friends who would love a hamburger. Their only reason, and they understand that they may even be hurting their health by not eating meat, although that's a hard sell sometimes. But they're starting to come around and realize, 'yes, I do need fat' as we get older and their health deteriorates. We've got a bigger problem here. We've got these animals being kept in pens, I mean I can't even describe. But I've seen some of these videos from these factory pig farmers and cattle feeders and whatnot. There's a lot more to it than just saying, "Eat meat."

Laura: Yeah, people need to start supporting family farmers and small farmers. They can get together and find a farm near their city, if they live in the city, and contribute to the support of the production of enough meat for themselves as a group. This is one of the things where people need to network together. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but so many people, as they wake up and become aware of what they're doing to their health, or what the so-called food pyramid is actually doing to them, they need to start trying to figure out ways, and sometimes you can't do it alone, because a single person isn't able to afford what a group can afford. Sometimes if you have a group, somebody may have a little more money than the other person, and they just kind of pool it all together to purchase their freezer full of meat for a period of time. Those are some things that people can do if they can't raise their own. Of course, if you can raise your own, if you have enough space, probably the most economical critter to raise is a pig. A pig, and maybe some chickens. Of course, some of us around here don't eat much chicken, but it's not too bad. So you can...pigs will eat a lot of things. They don't require as much care or as pasturage as say, a cow. There's a lot of things that can be done, and those things should really be considered. We buy meat from a farmer who raises pigs out in the forest, and they are acorn-raised. They run around loose all the time, eating acorns, and then right towards the end, he brings them in. Then they become our pork chops. We're pretty sure they're not GMO and they haven't been fed any GMO grains or anything. They've had a nice, fun life, running around in the forest, chasing each other, eating all those acorns.

Betsy: And you're lucky. 'Cause, I mean, you live around here, up here in the mountains where it's very rural. It's very hard to find farmers still producing enough to sell to the individual.

Laura: That's surprising.

Betsy: You either have a farmer who has a contract with one of these large conglomerates, or...we've driven, they've just been driven completely out of business. I think it's all part of the overall scheme that the American farmer has just been sent into bankruptcy.

Laura: I think...absolutely.

Betsy: The level of regulation on; you want to sell meat here, you know, raising it for yourself you can do, but if you want to sell meat here to the general public, there is this long list, I mean, a book of regulations that you have to follow.

Laura: And that's by design, I would suggest.

Betsy: I would agree.

Niall: And the regulations, the regulations that the big food industry players don't follow.

Betsy: Umm-hmm

Laura: Yeah, they don't want people to eat meat, because they don't want people to be healthy! Because they don't want people to have fully-functioning bodies and brains, because fully-functioning people can wake up and be aware and act and react appropriately.

Juliana: All the meat they want them to eat is the meat that was fed GMOs and grains and there's,uh, the last figure I read was thirteen slaughter houses in the entire U.S.? That's like nothing! It's all these huge farms, fed grain, sick, needing antibiotics to keep them alive.

Betsy: It's all about the profit margin.

Juliana: So obviously, vegetarians have a good reason to go, like you were saying, they really do have a good reason to [be] saying, 'at least don't do so much harm'. The problem is they don't know about the destruction caused by vegetables themselves on the body and on the planet. It's not the solution to become a vegetarian. The solution is what Laura was just saying, networking and trying to find local people if they still exist.

Laura: Grow your own. Grow some extra for friends. Do some trading. It's a...

Niall: They're coming from the right place, their heart's in the right place, but they've gotta be in good health themselves if they want to do anything about it.

Joe: Umm-hmm

Betsy: It also has to do with profit margin. They have such a huge profit margin on their grains and vegetables, whereas, I mean, if it was profitable for them to sell meat to, the way that do, to promote meat they way that do vegetables and wheat, they would. They're not, because even though there is a profit margin, I forgot the exact figures, but it was like say, a 500% profit margin on meat, where it's a 5000% profit margin on vegetables. Much larger profit margin for them than the meat industry. That's why they've been running down the meat industry. It makes more money.

Laura: So it comes down to greed.

Joe: Greed, yeah.

Laura: yeah, we're in a hell of a mess, aren't we?

Betsy: It seems hopeless sometimes. It really does. It seems utterly hopeless, sometimes. We've gotten so far..I spent an entire weekend one time just looking for local bacon.

Laura: Oh, my God.

Betsy: Just looking for it. Just trying to find it. Couldn't find it. The closest is the Earth Fair, over in the big city. And just 'cause it's free range or organic doesn't mean it is. They lie, they're not held to any standard on those packages. It's hard, it's very difficult.

Laura: It's depressing. It's depressing. Well, maybe you can start making up some flyers, and start putting them around for people, letting them know about the dangers of vegetarianism and the advantages of really good meat, and saying, "Let's have a meeting, and talk about this. Let's find some people who've got a little bit of land and we'll all get together and pitch in some money." Help them get a couple of critters to raise, and we'll help buy the feed, and we'll all have some meat! That's one way to go about it.

Joe: Yeah. You don't even need to, there's obviously butchers in your area, so what people around here do that raise their own animals. They have a butcher that butchers them for them. You don't have to do the whole thing yourself

Betsy: Right. We have one of those in a town about fifteen, twenty miles from me here, and that's it. Everybody there goes there. (inaudible)

Laura: I know my aunt and uncle live in north Florida, and they've, up until my uncle passed away two years ago, they were, and they may still be doing it, they were raising their own cattle. They'd raise two or three cows a year. He had forty, fifty acres of pasture that he'd put 'em on. Then as soon as they were ready, there's a local butcher who would come around. He would come and pick them up and bring them back the meat, all packaged the way they wanted it. So it still does happen in some rural areas, but it sound to me like, there where you are it's getting to be more 'less rural' than rural.

Betsy: That and they've all turned to crops to try to save their farms. They can't make the money of the cattle and on the pigs like they used to. Mainly because there's only one place around here that they can get it butchered out. They have to sell it at a market at auction, sometimes they would get less than what they just put into the feed over the winter.

Laura: My God.

Betsy: So they want it down to the point that most...we do have a lot of farmland around here, but it's almost all planted. So there's one place that's managed to meet all the regulations and whatnot, that you can actually take your meat in there. A meat processing, well, there's two. One up in Franklin and one in Briarson. But there's one close, within fifteen minutes or so that actually has all the regulations..they've managed to meet this long government criteria to where you can take your pig in there and you get back your pork. A lot of places you'll take a pig in, and they'll weigh it, and they'll say, "Okay, you've got a six hundred-pound pig here. That's gonna translate to 500 pounds of pork." And then they just give you 500 pounds of pork. They don't, you don't necessarily get your own animal back.

Laura: They don't give you your pig...ahhh. That's not very nice.

Betsy: So they've got this scam going.

Laura: No kidding!

Betsy: No, absolutely not. There's only one place that I know of for certain, where you actually get the animal back that you took in, that's close by. Now, there's another one a couple hour away, but close by...You know transporting a six hundred-pound hog is not an easy thing to do. A friend of mine does raise them. I do get a little each year but, certainly not..I'm at the local Save-Alot, buying the commercial nine times out of ten.

Laura: Well it would be worth it to support people who are doing that. If they were seen to be being successful, maybe some people could get together and go over there together. And if they were successful, then other people might start doing it. Somehow it's gotta change and sometimes we have to bootstrap ourselves out of a situation with an air-hook.

Betsy: Yep. I agree. It's just hard to know which way to go.

Laura: Yeah. Well, thank you Betsy for calling and it's good to talk to you.

Betsy: Good to talk to ya'll. Love the show, listening every week.

Laura: Go have a pork chop.

Betsy: I'm gonna. I might have some bacon.

Laura: Bacon's better

Everyone: Yeah!

Betsy: Yep. Gonna have some bacon. Now that I've gotten all depressed it's time for bacon. Ya'll have a good show though.

Joe: All right.

Laura: Kissy, kissy. Bye, bye.

Joe: Thank you, Betsy!

Joe: So . . . GMOs. Evil! They are. I wonder sometimes. You know, there is , in these court cases against Monsanto by farmers, because Monsanto...or rather, Monsanto has taken cases, has sued farmers because the crop that the farmers were growing had been contaminated, infected with, you know, naturally, with Monsanto Round-up ready, or GMO crop being grown beside. And Monsanto went around and claims partial ownership of those cross-fertilized crops. I'm wondering if it's going to go to the point where, because they're feeding a lot of these grains to animals, that Monsanto will then claim some ownership on the animal. But only if it grows two heads. Or six legs.

Juliana: A franken-pork-pig?

Joe: You can spot Monsanto's animals, farm animals by the extra legs, or ears, or tails, or something, you know? I wouldn't be surprised.

Niall: Just recently, there was a Supreme Court case, in just one of those cases, where Monsanto had taken a farmer to court.

Joe: There's four hundred. Four hundred farmers.

Niall: And one, I think, involved Monsanto against Bowman(sp?), was recently heard in the Supreme Court. This wasn't even a case of cross-pollination. This was a case of, this farmer had a contract with Monsanto, whereby he would use their seeds, and then he would have to renew, get a new supply of seeds.

Joe: He couldn't use the same seeds he...

Niall: What he did was, he couldn't afford to do that the next growing season.

Joe: So he wanted to use....

Niall: So he bought other seeds from someone else.

Joe: Okay.

Niall: And the Monsanto agent somehow got wind of this, and this was not; in his contract it was stipulated that he could not do that. He had to keep going back to Monsanto to buy his seeds for each season.

Joe: I think the rationale behind that was, because he couldn't plant non-GMO, non-Monsanto grain, or crop in the same field as Monsanto GMO, because ultimately, the Monsanto GMO crop would fertilize the other one. And they would then have ownership of it. He couldn't split his field down the middle, and say Monsanto on the right, non-Monsanto on the left, because Monsanto said. "Well, that would all ultimately be ours." So you're not allowed to do that.

Laura: Yeah, [if] some pollen from our grain, gets on your grain, we own it.

Joe: Yeah, absolutely. And this has happened. They found inside the market, they've found in South America, probably in the U.S., but definitely in South America, they've found Monsanto genetically modified crop a thousand miles from the nearest supposed GMO crop. So it's not something they control. Obviously they're happy enough with that, because if it spreads around the world, on the wind, then they own it all! They'll file suit to...

Laura: To own the world!

Juliana: It's just amazing that they let it happen. There weren't any studies about the effect of GMOs. The ones that exist got suppressed, or the scientists themselves lost their jobs or got attacked viciously. They allow these seeds to be everywhere, to spread everywhere. There's hardly any natural seed. The farmers in all [of] Latin America are really angry about it. For example, in Mexico there's hardly any original corn left. It's just everything got polluted. They have, the managed to have patented nature itself. Life itself. Then they're in cahoots with all the pharmaceuticals who produce these drugs that heal the exact same diseases that these grains cause. Just, what is it? Novartis, which then got merged into Syngenta...

Niall: It's one of the big three.

Juliana: The main drugs are, I won't read you the names, but the diseases are osteoporosis, hypertension, dermatitis, alzheimers, asthma, cancer, diabetes, psychosis.

Joe: Hang on! They're all the diseases that are linked to carbs.

Juliana: Precisely! They control everything.

Laura: They give you the food...

Joe: Dairy and grain!

Laura:...that causes the diseases, and then sell you the drug. (loudly)Geeze, it sounds like V for Vendetta! My God!!

Juliana: And the worst thing is that people...I mean, you guys have talked about this whole chem-trail thing, okay? People obsessing about this whole conspiracy chem-trails and most of them are contrails and they try to look for conspiracies where there are non, or very little.

Joe: None!

Laura: While they eat their pizza and drink their beer.

Juliana: Not only that, but they're willingly going to the supermarket to buy their own poison, and then they go to the pharmacy to buy their own drugs. So they're actually paying to be dumbed down and made sick.

Joe: Yeah! They don't know it!

Juliana: And they don't know it.

Joe: But there's obviously a number being done on people here; on farmers. Because crops produce seeds, with which you can grow more crops. So how are farmers willingly paying Monsanto for seed that they have to continue paying Monsanto for every single year?

Niall: Because the seed is usually 'terminator seeds'. It's tweaked to that it can't be regrown.

Joe: They can't replant it.

Laura: But how do they promote this? Do they say, 'This seed is gonna grow so much better, it's gonna grow more', but it's not true.

Joe: They say that, but they've done studies to show GMOs are, do not provide a better yield than normal grain, and they do not provide any better health benefits in terms of the vegetable, or the grain that is produced. They're no better. It's no better.

Laura: It's basically a, to use a little metaphor here, "a pig in a poke." (laughing)

Niall: Exactly.

Juliana: But the number they pulled in many countries was to give them for free the first time. Look at at Haiti for example.

Joe: Drug pushers do that, as well. First one's free.

Juliana: Yeah, yeah.

Laura: It's exactly like a drug pusher!

Juliana: Then they said, or the number they pulled in many South American countries was, "Well, we helped you develop agriculture and your gross profit grew by such and such, and now you owe us. Therefore we need to get some money back from this deal. Therefore you need to buy the seeds." But, first they hooked them up exactly like a drug dealer saying, "Here's all this free seeds." Even the FAO was saying, "Well, they assured us. A report is...

Joe: The FDA.

Juliana: No, the FAO. The UN.

Joe: Okay.

Juliana: They said, "How are you going to combat hunger in the world?" and they said, "We're gonna send (check this out!) 'improved seeds'". Nowhere in the document did they mention GMOs. It just said they were going to send 'improved seed's'. And for that purpose we need private companies to ensure that the quality is good and they get distributed properly. So right there you have the UN supposedly saving hungry people, giving them a seed that's going to bind them forever. And what happens to these local farmers? There was the, I think it was in Ghana, that the whole local industry got destroyed. The agriculture, the farmers had to stop doing..their crops got destroyed after a couple of years with the seed. They deplete the soil and everything. And what do you get in those countries? You get people working in telemarketing companies, or producing microchips for developed countries. I mean, that's not helping the local economy. That's not helping the poor countries.

Laura: And speaking of poor countries not being helped, one of the things that goes along with this particular, and it's really kind of a bizarre turn-around, a dichotomy even, that they've promote food that causes diabetes and at the same time the mass media is promoting people who are stick-thin, as being the ideal of beauty. This is probably the only period of history, and I read a lot of history, it's probably the only period of history I know, where people are considered to be attractive when they look like they've just stepped out of a concentration camp.

Joe: That's the way people...

Juliana: And the whole anti-fat thing got promoted in the fifties, and it was just lying. There weren't any studies really done with saturated animal fat. They were all made with hydrogenated oils and plastic oils basically.

Niall: They overlooked animal fats, but they did say somehow or other by the early, by the late seventies, early eighties, somehow or other, people in Western Europe and America got the idea..mothers all around that region of the world got the idea that red meat and fat was bad for you, and you should not feed it to your children. They changed from butter as well, too margarine. Cut out red meat and fat and started feeding more vegetables. I know this personally, because my mother did exactly that. I remember the when we used to get kidney and liver and butter. And then suddenly, for me it was like almost overnight, where it changed. There was obviously a propaganda campaign, because my mother wasn't hooked up with any industry insiders who told her this is all good stuff to change over to. It was part of the propaganda, that everybody was subjected to. Again we come back to the idea of greed. It was cheaper for them, for these companies to produce these synthetic fats, essentially, a lot cheaper than they could provide real fat. They just said, "Let's go with that." They overlooked all of the clear, if they did any research, they overlooked the clear health effect, the negative health effects of eating that kind of vegetable oils and...

Niall: What's insidious about it is that they have these "cooked" studies that justified all these moves you just described. Because, if these things are bad for peoples' health..and what happens then? Health problems explode as a result of this.

Joe: Um-hmm.

Niall: And they don't care.

Joe: Because pharmaceuticals, big pharma makes billions [out] of pushing drugs on all these people who now have all of these modern illnesses they're falling [prey to]. Someone just wrote to us and said, " Look at those farmers. The suicide rate among farmers in the U.S. is at an epidemic level."

Niall: In the U.S.?

Joe: Yeah. Among small farmers

Niall: Even in the U.S., yeah. That doesn't surprise me. It says here that at this point, in the U.S., 93% of soybeans, and 86% of corn crops are all from GM. Which means that this GMO monopoly, Monsanto, Syngenta, DuPont, have already got the U.S. food supply.

Juliana: And 90% of processed foods contain one of those grains, so...

Joe: We're not saying, we're not just talking about eating soya beans or,

Juliana: And it's not labeled, so you buy a a bottle of...

Niall: Oh, yeah. These are foundation foods for anything and everything.

Juliana: Yeah! You can buy whatever, peanut butter or whatever. It's not going to be labeled. So 90% of what you eat, if you have a normal American standard diet, is GMO already.

Joe: Even on the labeling. In the last elections in the U.S., in California. It was up for debate or up for, they tried to pass a bill that big GMO producing companies would have to label their products.

Niall: Proposition 37.

Joe: Yes. It was rejected, supposedly by the California people, but it was rejected because there was a massive lobbying campaign by these GMO producers and also by member of, representatives in Congress. The claim was that to label products as GMO, that were GMO, would negatively affect local businesses, like local farmers and that kind of stuff, because people would stop buying them. Well, YEAH! 'Cause they're bad for you. You should stop buying them. But they're saying, "No, listen. Your health comes second to profit. To the local economy, and profit."

Laura: What's really, really horrifying, as we've mentioned already, is what these foods do to your body. It's not just the fact that they're GMO, it's the fact that they're carbohydrates. That they're grains. That they are vegetables.

Joe: It's a double whammy.

Laura: The thing that is obvious is that there is something happening to the population of this planet because diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, heart disease, cancer, have risen shockingly. That's probably the real hockey-stick graph in our world, is the rise in these kinds of diseases, that go hand in hand with the decline of the consumption of saturated fats and meat. The more vegetables and the more polyunsaturated fats, or the less [animal] fats people ea, the more diabetes, cancer, arthritis, lupus, MS, alzheimers, Parkinsons. All these kinds of auto-immune disorders, they're getting. It's absolutely, I mean, if people can't see that, then they're deaf, dumb and blind. It's obviously the only reason they couldn't see it, would be because they've eaten so many grains and vegetables, that their brains don't work anymore.

And on that, I have a little book here. I really would like to share a little bit with some of the readers or listeners. It's called Why We Get Fat, and it's by Gary Taubs, who is a science journalist and he also wrote a great book called Good Calories, Bad Calories, which is a, this book is kind of like a condensation of Good Calories, Bad Calories. But I want to give you something to think about, in terms of what you're eating and what it can do to you. So, here let me read this little bit. He says:

"In the early 1970's, a young researcher at the University of Massechusetts, named George Wade, set out to study the relationship between sex hormones, weight, and appetite."

Laura: Now just keep that sex hormones business in mind, because you know everybody's on Viagra these days.

"[He] wanted to study the relationship between sex hormones, weight, and appetite, by removing the ovaries from rats.

Laura: Obviously these were female rats.

"He then monitored their subsequent weight and behaviour. The effects of the surgery were suitably dramatic. The rats, after the removal of their ovaries, would begin to eat voraciously and quickly became fat. And if we didn't know any better, we would assume that the removal of the rat's ovaries makes it a glutton. The rat eats too much, the excess calories find their way to the fat tissue, and the animal becomes obese. This would confirm our preconception that overeating is responsible for obesity in humans as well.

"But Wade did a revealing second experiment. Removing the ovaries from rats, putting them on a strict, post-surgical diet. So even if this second group of rats were ravenously hungry after the surgery, even if they desperately wanted to be glutton, they couldn't. Because in the lingo of the experimental science, the second experiment 'controlled' for overeating. The rats, post-surgery, were only allowed the same amount of food they would have eaten had they never had the surgery. And what happened is not what you would probably think.

"These rats that had their food restricted after surgery, got just as fat, just as fast. But these rats were now completely sedentary. The moved only when movement was required to get food. The way Wade explained it was, the animal doesn't get fat because it overeats, it overeats because it's being driven by some mechanisms within to get fat. The cause and effect are reversed. Both gluttony and sloth are effects of the drive drive to get fatter. They are caused fundamentally by a defect in the regulation of the animals tissue.

Laura: Now think about that. Then, skipping over some other material here, he says"

"Had we been discussing disorders of growth, why some people grow to be more that seven feet tall, and others never make it to four feet, the only subject of the discussion would be the hormones and the enzymes that regulate growth. And yet when we're discussing a disorder in which the defining system is the abnormal growth of fat tissue, the hormones and enzymes that regulate the growth are considered to be irrelavent.

Laura: Okay. Now, here's a little story:

"That obesity runs in families, that is, we're more likely to be fat if our parents were fat, and that the local distribution of fat itself can be a genetic attribute, tells us that body fat is regulated. Because how else would genes passed from generation to generation, influence our fat, and where we put it, if not through hormones and enzymes, and other factors that regulate it. That the amount of fat, and even the type of fat animals carry is carefully regulated, also argues for this conclusion. We are after all, just another species of animals. Animals in the wild; some of them may be naturally fat. The hippopotamus for instance. The whales. They put on fat seasonally as insulation in preparation for the cold of winter. Or as fuel for annual migrations or hibernations. Females will fatten in preparation for giving birth. Males will fatten to give them a weight advantage in fights for females. But they never get obese, meaning they won't suffer adverse health consequences from their fat, the way humans do.

"No matter how abundant their food supply, wild animals will maintain a stable weight, not too fat, not too thin. Which tells us that their bodies are assuring that the amount of fat in their fat tissue always works to their advantage, and never becomes a hindrance to survival. When animals do put on a significant amount of fat, that fat is always there for a good reason. The animals are as health with it, as without it. Excellent examples of how carefully animals and so presumably humans regulate their fat accumulation, are hibernating rodents, ground squirrels, which double their weight and body fat in just a few weeks of late summer. Dissecting these squirrels at their peak weight, as one researcher it, is "like opening a can of crisco." Enormous gobs of fat all over the place. But these squirrels will accumulate this fat regardless of how much they eat, just like Wade's ovary-less rats. They can be housed in a laboratory, kept on a strict diet from springtime when they awake from hibernation, through late summer, and they will get just as fat as squirrels allowed to eat to their heart's content. They'll burn the fat through the winter and lose it at the same rate, whether they remain awake in a warm laboratory with food available, or go into full hibernation, eating not a bite, and surviving solely off their fat supplies. If an animal that requires enormous gobs of fat for its winter fuel, were to require excessive amounts of food to accumulate that fat, then one bad summer would've long ago wiped out the entire species.

Laura: Now, I want you to think about the survival of the human species, and what this tendency for so many people to be suffering from these conditions, might actually suggest? Is there something in our environment, is the very fact that we're eating so much of this kind of food sort of a signal to our genes that something very difficult is coming our way, and causing people to put on fat? Because if you're eating a lot of grains and vegetables, that means you're in an environment that your body doesn't think is very abundant. You're body considers an abundant environment to be one where you get meat every day. When you get meat every day, all kinds of systems get turned on and off in your body, and everything behaves differently. But if you're getting all of this vegetable matter and these grains and things, than what is obviously happening is that it's sending signals to your genes. Your genes are changing everything around in your body, and causing people to get fat, to get diabetic diseases, to get other kinds of diseases, that make them unable to get around or to do things. Basically, I think it's a signal to the human species that it's time for a whole lot of you to die off and go extinct.

That's really what's happening and that's what this food, what the people are eating, what these GMO foods, what these high-grain diets, these vegetable diets are signalling. That it's an interactive dynamic between the massive human population on this planet and the environment itself, saying, "It's time to go extinct." Because, either that, or we've got one hell of an ice age coming, because what else are you gonna use all that fat for?

Joe: Umm-hmm.

Juliana: It kind of reminds me of what Lierre Keith says, that we have choice between natural predators or destroyers. Humanity at this point has reached a stage where we have destroyed the earth, or we're about to. What they've managed, I mean, you have these people who are overweight, but are unhealthy. It's completely at the opposite end of people who would have stores of fat needed for survival, in case of what seems to be coming in the not too distant future. But then at the other end of the spectrum you have people who have problems linked to obesity or heart diseases, diabetes etc, that wouldn't be able to survive, no matter how much fat they have accumulated.

Joe: Isn't fat production associated with toxins as well? In the sense that if you're eating a lot of toxic foods and artificial foods and ?? foods...

Laura: It can be.

Joe:...that fat is used to isolate that from the ?? body?

Laura: I would say that based on the artifacts found among the paleolithic communities of our distant ancestors, twenty, thirty thousand years ago, there were people who were very, very fat. They have these 'Venus' fugurines, and these, some of the statuary on the island of Malta, and basically all over Europe and into Anatolia. There are these figures of these very fat women. They were obviously getting fat without the problem of GMO, without grains necessarily. Without eating too many vegetables. So getting fat is not fundamentally a problem of toxicity, but in this day and time, considering the environment we live in, it is a problem of toxicity.

Joe: You see a lot of people with what you call "wheat belly". Which is the fat only in one particular area.

Lauara: That's one area where it's not good to have fat, because the kind of fat that he's talking about here, that is normal and natural, usually doesn't collect on your belly. It collects, for women it's around their thighs, their backsides, their upper arms. Just look a some of these old paleolithic images. You'll see where you're supposed to be fat. That's they were supposed to fat. We don't know exactly what was going on in those times, but it was probably during the height of an ice age. So clearly have some weight on you makes you much better able to...if it's healthy weight, it can't be toxic weight, and it can't be caused from...

Joe: Inflammation.

Laura:...caused from inflammation. It can't be from too many carbs or whatever, because like he just said, they sequester these creatures, the hibernating creatures, eating minimal amounts of food, will still gain the same amount of weight as if they were allowed to eat unreservedly. The others, being sequestered, after having their hormones removed, their sex hormones by having their ovaries removed, they still gained the same...they became very lethargic because the body becomes extremely conservative. It wants to keep everything, so you stop...all systems get shut down in the drive to put on weight. It's really, it's not so simple problem as we've been given to think. It's not, mainly it's not because people overeat. Certainly they do overeat, but the problem is, what is driving them to do that? What is causing it?

Juliana: It's kind of when you, and you just reminded me of what you said during last show, about cosmic viruii and what could happen after cometary explosion, overhead explosion or not. Give or take two years say, if it's overhead, for a plague-type virus to arrive. If you look at the population, I think that we can assume that 80% of the population at least, is either overweight and unhealthy, or underweight and unhealthy. So right there you have the people who wouldn't have an immune system that is strong enough to fight what ever's coming. It's like, unnatural selection, but turns into natural selection.

Laura: Yeah. And then another thing is, when you don't have people that have at least a little weight on them, they don't survive illnesses as well. There's old folk wisdom that I grew up with that you should feed your babies, and your kids, and to have them a little bit chubby. Because God forbid one of your children should get sick and be unable to eat for a couple of weeks, a couple of, you know. A week or ten days without being able to eat, for a small child is an enormous weight loss, and they may not have the stores their body to survive such a thing. That was understood in those days. Of course now, "Oh well we have modern medicine. We can give you drug and we can take care of that for you. Just don't worry about it. Make your kid skinny, because all the kids are just way too fat" blah-be-blah. Children suing their parents for giving them too much good food. "Mom, you made me fat, I wanna sue you", because they all want to look like concentration camp victims. And if you look, if you look at photographs since the invention of photography, like historical photographs, social photographs. Heck, just go and watch the early years of Perry Mason, the tv show. And look at the women, and how they were, and how full, and kind of lush they were. Look at Marilyn Monroe, for cryin' all night! She was a really plump gal. And then look at women nowadays. Look at the models on the runways at the fashions shows. They look coat hangers! So it's a...there's a lot of things concerned with this issue of food, GMOs, what people are eating, genetics, diseases, drugs, destruction of the planet, extinction of humanity. It's a very inter-related, dot-connected subject.

Joe: Um-hmm. It definitely is, and as a result of the idea, we've talked about the human element, in terms of all these producers of, and controllers of the, of crops and manufacturers of GMO crops. But there's also the plants themselves. Plants are alive, and they have a biological imperative to propagate themselves around the world. And they do that largely by being eaten, and passing seeds through the animal or whatever.

Laura: Some of them.

Joe: Yeah, quite a lot of them.

Laura: Some of the plants that human beings eat, they eat the seeds. They're eating the young of another species. When you eat grains, you're eating the young of another species. Those grains have defense mechanisms. They're called lectins.

Joe: Yeah. To maintain themselves intact, so that when they're passed, they will land, propagate around the world. So someone ate a bushel of wheat in in U.S., gets in a plane, flies over to Europe...

Laura: Wait a minute. You don't eat a bushel of wheat as intact seeds. It's ground up and destroyed. That's what I'm saying. They have chemicals. They produce chemicals in their seeds that prevent other creatures eating them by making them sick. Humans beings are the only people who've found ways to overcome vegetable and plant lectins, to continue to eat them when what they're getting is destroying their body.

Joe: Well, here's another idea then. Maybe I'm....

Laura: Fruits are usually the only ones.

Joe: Fruits, yes. But maybe I'm ascribing to much intelligence wheat?

Laura: I don't know. A plant that can poison you to keep you from eating its babies is pretty smart in my book.

Joe: I know, but I'm still on the propagation thing here, in terms of, plants are aware of what humans do. That humans can spread the plants, not through eating them, but around the world.

Laura: Most assuredly.

Joe: So the plants have adapted to be very palatable, i.e., addictive to human beings. So that they...I think that Lierre Keith talks about this, in terms of...

Laura: I think the ones that propagate like this are mainly fruits, and let's face it, the fruits that our ancestors had available to them were not nearly as sweet and addictive as the ones we have nowadays. So I'm sure if they were nice and sweet and tasty, and you took a bunch of blueberries or bunch of apples, or pears of the primative variety, that were probably so tart they'd turn your mouth inside out. Put a little honey with it, and you're definitely going to be planting pear trees as you travel across country.

Juliana: I think what Lierre Keith says is that, in the case of fruits, one of the beliefs is that they adapted to spread the seeds out. But where do you dump the seeds today? You're not planting a new tree. You're not respecting the apple tree because you ate an apple. You just dump it in the garbage. Most seeds go to waste, and in the case of the annual seeds, the annual crops, corn, soy; they actually adapted to producing even more gluten, even more opioids, because that's what people addicted to them.

Joe: Yeah, but why would they, from an adaptive point of view, what's the benefit of that?

Juliana: The annuals get to reproduce, and the annuals are destroying the topsoil.

Joe: No, but from the plant's point of view, my question is....

Laura: Yeah, but then you grind them up. Destroy them, to eat them.

Joe: Yeah. So from an adaptive point of view, the plant would have to understand the way humans propagate the plant, i.e., by spreading it around the world and feeding them... hang on, I've got a corn seed. A corn plant would say, "These humans need to really love me, 'cause I want them to spread me all around the world." And it would say, "I'm gonna make myself extra addictive, and glutinous, and sugary, and they'll just love me and plant me everywhere!" So that's what I mean by ascribing too much intelligence to plants.

Laura: Yeah, that's going up a level in the ascribing of intelligence.

Joe: This, this, you know, it could happen! It could happen!

Laura: I'm not sure I can go there! (laughing)

Joe: I mean, they may have become sentient and take over the world. It will be like the, what do you call it? 'the eggplant that ate Chicago'?

Laura: Well, there's the....

Juliana: But, are they? Because they are needing more and more pesticides, more and more fertilizer. Wasn't it forced by human beings, that over-production?

Laura: How do we know that the lectins, that the gluten, the lectins, well, we know the lectins are produced to prevent other creatures from eating them. But the opioids, the glutens; how do we know that there's not some other purpose for that, other than addicting human beings so that they'll want to go and plant more corn or wheat, or whatever?

Joe: What are they? What is it?

Laura: I don't know, but it's something that deserves a little research before we decide that plants have planned to addict human beings.

Joe: I was just throwing it out there as a possibility. I wasn't saying it was true, you know. (laughter)

Laura: I'm not sure I like to think about the fields that I pass by when I go somewhere as...

Joe: As sentient?

Laura:...looking at me with some kind of conspiracy in their minds!

Joe: Having designs on you, eh?

Laura: Yeah, having designs on my activities!

Joe: (inaudible)

Juliana: Well, the best fertilizer for the soil, that is these plants that is, is bones, blood, and human beings, so they're, if they wanted to kill us all faster, to get more fertilizer, there you go. You have the intelligent brain...

Joe: Right now there's a stalk...

Laura: Right now there's a wheat plant that has...

Joe:...and a stalk of corn in a field sayin', "Just wait, just wait. These people will be dead soon, and our master plan will be complete!" (laughter)

Niall: "Will be complete!" (low,evil laugh)

Joe: It could be. But on the whole fat thing, saturated fat thing. I just want people to know that, and this is from 2010: "Two major studies conclude that saturated fat, i.e., animal fat, does... not... cause... heart... disease." And they repeat that...

Laura: Let's all say it together!

Everyone: Saturated fat does not cause heart disease!

Joe: Despite the last thirty years..

Laura: Of propaganda.

Niall: Yeah!

Joe: Yeah, and drumming that into everybody. This is from, according to the World Health Organization and HHO-FAO report; there is no association between coronary heart disease and saturated fat.

Laura: But there is a very strong coronary heart disease...

Juliana: Carbohydrates!

Laura:...coronary heart disease and carbohydrates. Because the heart burns fat for fuel. It needs fat. If you give it the fat directly, then it has quick and easy fuel. If you give it carbohydrates, which it then has to mess around and try to convert into some kind of fat to feed the heart, and if you don't have any good fats in your body, [if] all you have is that plastic that comes from hydrogenated vegetable oils, you're screwed! You're gonna have coronary artery disease. You're gonna have atherosclerosis. You're probably gonna die any minute now.

Joe: Absolutely.

Juliana: And look at what they've done with these statins. That's supposed to keep you from having another heart attack and stuff. That drug is so toxic. It's one of the, or the one that gives the pharmaceuticals the highest profits. I don't know if the highest on, or among the highest, but it's billions of profit.

Joe: It's one of their staples.
Juliana: That are killing people.

Laura: And they're giving it everybody!

Juliana: And for all their lies, you just can't stop it, once you have it. I mean, it's criminal! So again, you have the pharmaceuticals and the agro-industy...

Laura: And of course, they don't want anybody looking into natural foods or eating according to traditional ways, or engaging in alternative therapies, or any kind of herbal medicines, or anything of that kind, because that cuts into their profits. If people start feeling better and getting well... I mean, here in France they have a whole organization called MIVILUDES, that goes out and searches out any group, or any organization that promotes any kind natural therapies, any kind of natural health...They have even raided people, believe it or not, with the police, with helicopters, the whole nine yards, for growing organic vegetables. They raided people for teaching yoga. We had a long run-in with them over the year 2010, because we were teaching the Eiriu Eolas breathing program; a scientific method for stimulating the vagus nerve, which helps improve your health, of course. So we know about this personally. But this is...and who are these big pharmaceutical and agricultural companies in France? There's two or three of them. They just run the whole show. They're all in bed with the politicians. They're all in bed with the MIVILUDES people, the anti-cult people, because, don't you know, you're a cult if you promote natural healing, if you promote organic food, if you promote ancestral diets. Anything except drugs and the food pyramid, which tell you that you must eat lots of grain and lots of vegetable, five servings a day, and plenty of sugar. Considering they're so concerned about peoples' health, the number of commercials on television in this country that sell chocolate breakfast cereals, or that sell these chocolate covered milky bars, for children. It shows all these children sitting around having these fantastic dreams and incredible experiences because they have bitten into this chocolate covered milky stuff. You go to any boulangerie, boulangeries are on every corner. The French eat bread like...

Niall: It's going out of business.

Laura: It's like the staple diet. I'm telling you, when the plague comes, well....

Juliana: You know, it's not just in France. The U.S. is going in that direction with the whole cult-deprogramming and the nutritional pyramid. When you look at 1992, when they passed that law where they said,'we're not going to differentiate anymore between GMO and organic foods'. That's the year when they started promoting...if you're online, you can check it out. The traditional pyramid, you have the grains at the bottom, pretty much 80% of your diet should be grains. Then the animal fats are way at the top, a tiny amount. Nowadays, you should, if you haven't seen it, you should see the modern 2005 pyramid. It's just ridiculous. Not only do you have big sections for grains and vegetables, more than half the pyramid, but when it comes to vegetables for example,you have canned beans, in the pyramid, then you have...

Laura: That's a vegetable??

Juliana: Yes! Including can. Then you have canned peaches...

Laura: That's a fruit.

Juliana: (laughing) Then you have some kind of hydrogenated oil from the look of it. It looks like almost transparent. Then you have canned tuna...

Laura: For meat.

Juliana:..., and peanut butter! That's in the nutritional...that's
food for the American population.

Joe: That's all you need.

Juliana: Most recently, this pyramid was supposedly too complicated. Now they call it "My Dish", I think?

Joe: "My Plate"

Juliana: "My Plate", yeah. So you have, you know..

Laura: Because people don't know what a pyramid is.

Joe & Juliana: Yeah!

Juliana: And you know those little games that you have for four years old, where you have to put pieces together into a pie? Well, it looks like that, except you have half of it full of grains and the rest, a little bit of fat, and nothing, none of it, would be something that our paleo ancestors ate. Nobody talks about hunter-gatherer diseases. Everybody talks about modern diseases. It's just like what Corey was saying at the beginning. People are so stupid.

Joe: We got a call here. Hi, what's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: Hi, this is Lynn from Canada.

Joe: Hi, Lynn.

Lynn: It's another great show.

Joe: Excellent.

Lynn: I just wanted to say couple of things. One speaking to the whole food pyramid and who decides you know. The interesting thing about the recommendations is that, contrary to a lot of beliefs, and i got this from Lierre Keith's wonderful book. Everybody should read it. Is that those recommendations are not created by the FDA, by the people who are supposedly created, you know, which should be looking after our health. That is a U.S. Agricultural recommendation. In other words, what we're told that we should eat is being formulated by the people who are going to make money off of the fact that we eat it.

Joe: Yeah. That goes back to greed.

Lynn: Yep. That was a big shock. I was quite surprised to read that, but after you think about it for a second, it sure makes sense. It makes absolute sense.

Joe: Greed and corruption. Many, many Monsanto and other big employees leave their position to got into government, become the issue czars who advise the...

Laura: The inspectors.

Lynn: Yeah, it's the revolving lobbyists door.

Joe: It's no surprise.

Lynn: Um-hmm, a lot. So the other thing was going way back to individual application of the paleo diet. The one guy said he was working into it slowly. That's really important. I was lucky enough to be following along right from the beginning, so we went gluten-free, grain-free, gradually, gradually, gradually. As the shift into a really, very strict ketogenic diet was quite easy. So somebody who's coming along later, do exactly what you've been told. Read everything you can, and then go slowly, especially the older you are, the slower you need to go. For me the transition was like almost over three years. It was a very easy one, but I'd been following along. And people think you're crazy. My family thinks I'm nuts. But I look at all of them, I'm in my mid-fifties, and I look at all my brothers and go, "Okay. I'm the only one who's a good weight. I am on no drugs, I mean not even aspirin. You're on statins, and you're on this and you're on that. And you can touch your toes anymore. You've got eczema. What's wrong with this picture??" I'm the oldest of the lot!

Laura: They don't see it. It's amazing, isn't it?

Lynn: It floors me. It just floors me. And you know, one of my sister-in laws was down with cancer, and I was sending her all this stuff, and she was like "well, I don't want to take the chance". I understood where she was coming from. She had children, she wanted to make sure she was there for them, but at the same time she did chemo and the whole thing. It was horrible to watch. Awful. But she's been brainwashed that she didn't want to take the chance. It was just, like "Oh my god, girl." It was just awful

Laura: Did she survive it?

Lynn: Yes she did. Yes she did. She is kind of on a modified, no gluten, no whatever, but she just won't take that step into the ketogenic that I think would make the total difference for her. She's just too, too scared. And that was sad. But she did make it through and we're all very happy for that. But I think her journey would have been a lot less traumatic if she'd been willing to just take that chance.

Joe: All right. Thanks for the call.

Lynn: Anyway, thanks for the great show.

Laura: Thank you, kissy, kissy.

Lynn: Talk to you later.

Joe: We got another call here. We're gonna go to this call. Hi caller, what's your name and where are you from?

Caller: This is Amanda, and I'm calling from Pennsylvania.

Joe: Hi, Amanda.

Amanda: Thank you, hi. I have a question and a comment. A comment, uh, you were talking about what the agricultural business and the pharmaceuticals are doing to humans, in regards to GMOs. I think it should be also maybe discussed a little bit, in regards to the common domestic cat, dogs, or a pet. They treat them the same way.

Laura: Oh, yeah.

Amanda: I mean, my cat in November was diagnosed..I had noticed symptoms that were unusual. Vomiting, things like that. I took him in to get a blood test, 'cause it was just happening too frequently within like a month and a half. They diagnosed him with pancreatitis. The vet gave me medication for him. I said I want to do things holistically, so please, no antibiotics. If you can recommend an herbal supplement that has the same properties as an antibiotic, like say, echinacea or tumeric; I think I said that correctly. And she didn't. She basically just gave me probiotics. It's called homeopathic iris, there's a ?? for him. Iris did help some, but pink one..when I put the probiotics in with his food which is grain-free, gluten-free, it's pretty much meat-based. I looked on the ingredients to make sure that it's food-grade ingredients that a human could consume. I also put a little bit of raw meat in there. He wouldn't touch it, with the probiotics in it.

Joe: Huh.

Laura: Let me tell you the story about my dog, Sebastian. Back in 2007 he got a tick on him that gave him a condition called ehrlichiosis. He was very sick and he nearly died. It's a long story about sorting what it was, what was wrong with him. Finding out how to keep him alive, which basically amounted to giving him massive doses of doxicycline. He was so down, that we would have to grind it up and put some sardines in the blender; turn sardines into liquid mush, put the pill in the sardines, put it in a plastic syringe, and squirt it down his throat, just to get it down him. Then we would have to pick him up and move him around two or three times, because the medicine would burn a hole in his stomach. So you had to move him, so that it wouldn't hit just one spot and stay there. Well, he recovered. Then we learned that dogs that have had this condition usually don't live longer than two years. They generally get leukemia and die within a two year period or earlier. Sebastian, of course, after he recovered from his condition, was really down. He had arthritis, his legs were messed up. It was almost like a human who gets polio, who can't walk anymore properly. We were a little upset about this, to say the least, and he started...and we felt sorry for him all the time, because he always wanted to eat. So we were, of course, feeding him. He had these nice croquettes that we'd buy from a special supply company, that are supposed to be really high protein, blah-ba-blah. He just got really, really fat, until he started looking like a walrus. So with his walking problem and all his other issues, he waddled around and he couldn't get up. He could hardly get up and down. He didn't want to play. He didn't want to chase the ball anymore. Didn't want to do anything. And then, when we all went paleo, we decided that the critters were going to go paleo too. We put them on raw meat. I'm telling you what, Sebastian, he's been on this for a year and a half now?

Joe: More, yeah.

Laura: Yeah, maybe two years. He's like a young, he's eleven years old this year, and he's like a young dog now. He gets up, he plays, he goes around. He's just really remarkable. The raw meat diet for dogs or a cat or, you know. Animals should eat what they're designed to eat. And what we've done is, not only have we destroyed our own health eating grains, we've destroyed the health of our pets.

Amanda: Yeah, I would agree with that. What I...when he was on this, I tried this for about..she said parsley would be good too, for him. I would put that in his food. He wouldn't touch it. Two weeks I tried this. Wouldn't touch it. His symptoms got worse. Worse, sick, vomiting more frequently. He just laid there. He always wanted to be in my lap. Didn't want to be picked up, and the thought of him playing didn't even, know, nothing like that. Finally, after two weeks, I said this is enough, 'cause he's not improving and it's scaring me. So I took him off it. I threw it out. I put a little bit tumeric, a bit of ginger, oregon grape, and a bit of catnip, ground up. Occasionally I'll feed him what's from Health Force Nutritionals. They have a green mush that has super-greens. And I'll mix that in with it. I'll put a little bit on cut, you know, like raw chicken, or a little bit of beef, raw. I'll make it so it's muchy, watery, 'cause he, he's gotten to the point, or was previous[ly], didn't even want to drink water, even if it was distilled and pure. He didn't, wasn't interested. Now he is completely fine. Jumps around without. He plays. Completely different cat. No vomiting, no other symptoms of pancreatitis, nothing. When I would call the vet, to make the appointment, when I spoke with the vet, I tried to ask her, "Okay, well, what will the parsley do?" Trying to get her to tell me, well, this is going to do this, and this and this is gonna mitigate that, take care of this symptom. It was just 'here's the probiotics, give him this, and come back when it's 3/4 empty. I'm thinking 'okay, and you're a holistic vet.'

Joe: Hmm.

Amanda: I don't know. It's very hard to find holistic vets, or people who understand that what we're doing to ourselves, we're also doing to our pets. Because most of the pet food, commercial, at a grocery store, even at a specialty, like a Petco, or some of these great big, monster pet stores. They still sell food that..

Laura: Well, you know, this holistic thing. I'm surprised that they're giving a cat vegetable matter because a cat wouldn't eat vegetable matter. Why isn't the cat just eating plenty of raw meat, raw fish.
If you can't get raw meat and raw fish for the cat, give him canned sardines. It's just I've never yet seen a cat that wouldn't eat a sardine. That's, it's just logical. Give 'em what they would naturally eat in the wild. Okay, honey, we've got a caller coming in.

Amanda: Thank you.

Laura: Thank you so much for bringing up this topic. Very important

Amanda: Thank you, Laura.

Joe: Bye Amanda

Amanda: Bye.

Laura: Bye bye.

Joe: Okay, we have another caller, I think, on the line. Hi, what's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: Hello?

Joe: Hello.

Caller: Hello. My name is Bahar. I'm from the Netherlands.

Joe: Hi, Bahar.

Bahar: Hi. I would like ask something. In the past I was the discussions about food and stuff.

Joe: Can you speak up a little bit, Bahar?

Bahar: Oh yeah, sure. Is this better.

Joe: Yep.

Bahar: Okay. So, I've noticed that there are a lot of people who are very pro raw milk. The kind of arguments they use; they're a bit...I don't see them as very valid arguments. One of them is that someone said that there is no animal that wouldn't say no to raw milk, or even water or yogurt.

Joe: Uhm-hmm.

Bahar: It's not only cats who like raw milk or whatever, but also horses and pigs and chickens. So they're very much pro raw milk. I wonder what you guys think about that?

Joe: Well, from a paleolithic point of view, any kind of animal milk is out, because paleolithic people hadn't domesticated animals, and didn't milk them. So from an evolutionary point of view, we humans haven't evolved, you know...

Laura: But let me say, the next step after wild paleolithic living, was herding animals, at which point some individuals did get a genetic tweak that permitted them to be able to survive and digest milk proteins after adulthood. It's not to say that it's the best thing for you, but there are people who can survive on it. They can digest it, they can extract certain things from it. But casein, still, and always has an opioid-type protein which is not good for you. So I would say that you could survive on it, if push comes to shove, but it's not optimal.

Juliana: The argument that no person or no animal would say no to certain foods is also linked to that opioid thing. Just because an animal would like something doesn't mean its good for the animal.

Everyone: Yeah.

Joe: There's a....

Laura: An alcoholic can't say no to alcohol. A drug addict can't say no to drugs.

Joe: Well, there's a listener who just wrote in, his name's Scott, and he said that also, there's no animal that would say no to a Snickers bar!


Joe: Dogs will eat anything will eat anything that you give them, even if it kills them.

Niall: Yeah.

Bahar: They also use the argument that some tribes are very healthy with, because they're diet consists of raw milk products. And I guess that there's...

Joe: But those tribes in Africa, and I think it's the, what do you call those tall ones? Very tall?

Laura: Zulus?

Niall: There's a tribe in Kenya, and that region

Joe: The very tall ones that jump up and down.

Laura: That's Zulus, aren't they?

Joe: No, they don't have Zulus

Niall: No.

Joe: I can't remember their name. Somebody will pop me up their name. But, they eat, maybe they survive mostly on cow blood and cow milk, and they eat meat as wall. But they've been doing that for a long time.

Niall: Yeah, they're herders.

Juliana: That's the thing, a lot of people say 'I feel better when doing for example, the whole, whatever, fasting completely for a month. You have to compare what they ate before, as well. Maybe they survive okay on milk and something else, but before, they had a whole history of eating processed food and grains and stuff.

Joe: But this was...

Juliana: And not eating...

Laura: But this tribe is not normal people.

Joe: But this tribe survives on raw milk and blood, and they're really, really tall, and they jump up and down. From eating...

Laura: yeah?

Joe:... and that's an effect. They're genetics have been changed by this diet, to make them really tall and jump up and down.

Laura: Well, of course, when you jump up and down and you've got milk in you, what do you get? Butter!


Joe: And if they moved north, it would be ice cream!

Laura: (laughing) Yeah. No, seriously, I would say that there is a, they have a special genetic adjustment that's been made for their diet. Like I said, there's some northern Europeans and some that came from the steppes of central Asia, and so forth, that did get this genetic tweak. But they're is probably much later, because they can survive on it, but it's not optimal. I'm really curious to see, or I'm curious to think what might this particular tribe we're talking about that survives on blood and raw milk; what they would, how would they would grow and develop if they were eating just strictly paleo. They may have been using this genetic alteration for so long, that it would be very difficult to change.

Bahar: Yes, exactly. That would be interesting to look into, I guess.

Joe: All right, Bahar.

Bahar: Okay. Well thank you very much.

Niall: Thanks for your call.

Bahar: And thank you for the show.

Laura: Kissy!

Bahar: Okay, bye bye.

Joe & all: Bye.

Joe: So just getting back to my point there, or on there, we were talking about plants being sentient. The wild speculation about plants being sentient and trying to kill us all? A listener called in with a quote from...the book Botany of Desire talks about the healing substance of plants, influenced people to propagate the plant. Right, the author Pollan says, somebody sent me this....sorry about this. "Pollan present his study that there are four types of desire that are reflected in the way that we selectively grow and genetically engineer our plants." So it's a human thing, not necessarily [a plant thing]. Our wild speculation's been proven wrong there. It's mainly due to the way that humans propagate the plants.

Laura: So it's ..

Joe: Although Grimm said so then Monsanto's there to protect us. Based on our speculation, Monsanto's trying to protect us from the carnivorous plants that are trying to kill us all.

Laura: You meant the eggplant that ate Chicago?

Joe: Yeah. Could be.

Niall: Monsanto's certainly trying to protect us from itself. Recently it's announced it's going to start putting gene-altering drugs inside its crops. In other words...

Joe: Uh-oh!

Laura: They're gonna alter our genes with their food.

Joe: So that we can survive on them.

Juliana: They're already doing that, yeah.

Niall: They're gonna put the drugs that we need..

Laura: People, I hope that whoever is listening to this really, really wakes up. Because I would like for everybody to feel good, to think clearly, to rejuvenate, to get your health back. To get rid of your pain, to get rid of your conditions, whatever they are. Have people come together and do some things, because we're really screwed on this planet, if we don't do something fairly quickly.

Joe: Yeah. And maybe our final caller will have something to say on that topic. Hi, what's your name and where are you calling from?

Caller: This Joel from Sweden.

Joe: Hi, Joel.

Juliana & Niall: Hi, Joel.

Joel: What of us? When it comes to how this enormous amount of this information, I tend [to] make fight. Evolutionarily speaking, [the] ludicrous way that people in general are eating things that the psychopath seem in charge of our world pretty much, as food as the rest of the population. They're was an example, sometime ago on the forum, where someone posted an article where Bill Clinton had converted to vegetarianism, as an example.

Joe: Yep.


Laura: Be still my heart. Bill Clinton, a vegetarian???

Juliana: Awwww.

Laura: This is wonderful. (laughing) Go for it, Billy-boy!

Niall: Clinton recently announced he's gone vegetarian.

Joe: Two years ago, yeah.

Niall: Excellent!

Laura:(still laughing) Yes! Now if all the rest of them would only go vegetarian.

Joe: Yeah.

Juliana: Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

Joe: That's a good point you know. It a good point because people talk in terms of a conspiracy and stuff, but you see, these people who should be in a position to know...

Laura: Who should know better!

Joe:..this stuff is bad for you. That they're going ahead and indulging in it.

Laura: Look at Dick Cheney, suckin' down that aspertame-laden sodas, and getting heart transplants, or....

Niall: Steve Jobs, of course, he was a vegan.

Laura: Look at Steve Jobs. He was vegan. Yeah! It's not a conspiracy, I don't think. I think it's just frickin' greed.

Joe: Yep.

Laura: So thank you Joel.

Joel: Yep.

Joe: You got another comment? A question?. . . . . I think he's gone.

Niall: Think so.

Laura: He's gone.

Niall: Okay.

Joe: We scared him off. Yeah, we didn't get to play our Makin Bacon song this week. We will again, at some point in the future because everybody likes that song.

Laura: I just want to point out that, of all the people at this table, I would say that, well, Chu runs a close second, but I'm the one who's most likely to have kissed the Blarney Stone, and I've never been to Ireland.

Joe: What do you mean, you're the most likely one to have kissed the Blarney Stone?

Laura: I can out-talk any of you.

Niall: The reason, the story behind the Blarney Stone is, it was put there so that American tourists...

Juliana: Ahhhhh.

Niall:...would have something to do.

Joe: Yeah.

Niall: Irish people don't actually go and kiss the Blarney Stone.

Joe: Right beside the Blarney Stone, for American tourists, there is a guy selling bottles of pure Irish air.

(lots of laughter)

Joe: And he's doing a roaring trade.

Niall: to take home with you.

Joe: They're only ten Euros each.

Laura: Oh, my God.

Joe: So anyway...

Laura: On that note,

Joe: On that note, we hope everybody has enjoyed the show. Thanks for listening. Thanks to our callers. Next week, we should give a plug for next week. We're going to have...

Laura: Sandra Brown!

Joe:...Sandra Brown, author of Women Who Love Psychopaths.

Laura: And we're gonna talk trash about psychopaths!

Joe: And all sorts of other things.

Laura: In the romantic sense.

Joe: Yes. If that's possible. So, that's one you want to miss, so tune in next week, and until then, have a good one.