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The devastating tsunami in Japan in March 2011... is man-made global warming really to blame?
Have you noticed anything strange about the weather these past couple of years? Record cold, record snowfall, record heatwaves, tornadoes happening all year round and in places they never appeared before, constant flooding and persistent drought... it's as if the predictions made by Al Gore about catastrophic man-made global warming are coming true.

But 'man-made global warming' is an explanation that leaves so much unexplained. Our sun clearly plays an important role in regulating the planet's climate, but increased numbers of earthquakes, rising volcanic activity and indications that 'climate change' is taking place on other planets in our solar system clearly point to some other factor driving these changes.

In last week's SOTT Talk Radio show, we looked back at periods of 'climate change' in the course of human history, noting that increased fireball flux also occurred during such times. Does the recent Russian overhead meteor explosion portend similar environmental catastrophe for humanity today? Are we on the cusp of another Dark Age?

Running Time: 02:07:00

Download: MP3



Here's the transcript:

Intro: You're listening to SOTT Talk Radio: The World for People Who Think.

Laura: We are doomed to extinction, because of agriculture. We have raped and pillaged this planet. There is a disinformation program literally for everyone no matter, who you are and what your and what your interests are, what your beliefs are, which way you are focusing, there is a website set up just for you - to take you in and to vector your thinking and your attention into the way that they want you to think. Categories of things happening in the sky and in the cosmos, if you read the scientific reports that come through and put the pieces together, you can see something big is happening!

Joe: Yes indeed, something big is happening. Or rather, something big has been happening over the past ten years or so, and has really ramped up over the past four or five years. What are we talking about? Well, maybe the large number of what can only be described as "earth changes" that have been taking place on our little blue marble.

Hello, and welcome to this week's SOTT Talk Radio show. I'm Joe Quinn, and with me in the studio as always is Niall Bradley.

Niall: Hello everyone.

Joe: And this week Laura's back with us to provide some very interesting historical context on our topic.

Laura: I've got my ears on rubber ducky!

Joe: Good stuff! And we also have Anna Martin. Anna wears many different hats, but for the purpose of this show, she's wearing her "weird weather and earth changes enthusiast" hat, and she will be filling us in on some of the more extreme and bizarre events that have been afflicting our planet of late.

Anna: Hello

Niall: Welcome, Anna!

Joe: So who's going to argue with me that some really freaking weird things have been going on on our planet? And I'm not talking about human beings here, 'cause we've discussed that in previous shows. I'm talking just about in terms of weather...we don't have a proper name for earth changes, earth changes covers volcanoes, tsunamis, typhoons, tornados, floods...

Niall: Sinkholes...

Joe: Sinkholes. I mean there's just, there's been so much going on in the biosphere, if you want to call it that, and it includes... I mean, leaving out humans, let's just include all of those things I just mentioned, and animals, because that figures into what we're going to discuss as well. So, while people are thinking about whether they want to argue with me on that point or not, whether or not there've been really weird, weird things going on, we're going to get into talking about it. And if anybody wants to call in at any point on the Blog Talk Radio, SOTT Talk Radio show page, you can see the number, but in case you're not listening from there, the number is, from the U.S. 718-508-9499, and 001 before that if you are outside the U.S.

So, Neil, tell me about some of the weird things that I'm talking about here over the past few years that have been going on our planet.

Niall: Well, it seems hardly a day goes by that you don't hear that some record or other has been broken...

Joe: Um-hm

Niall: ...whether it's precipitation, rainfall, record snowfall, record cold, record heat.

Joe: Right.

Niall: Localized usually, but you get some record heat. Record storms, (Joe: Uh, huh), record earthquakes. That's something that caught my eye today, when I was doing some research for the show, and I thought...

Joe: What's a record earthquake?

Niall: Well, not a record earthquake, although we've some, but record numbers, yeah.

Joe: Oh, record numbers...

Niall: I think the USGS data points to a two-fold increase in earthquakes over magnitude 5, or 5 and a half.

Joe: Ok, that's interesting because last week we talked about this startling increase in the number of fireballs and meteorites since...just over the U.S. actually, because that's the only place that they're really collected and recorded...over the U.S., since 2005, you know. So I wonder if there's some kind of correlation between the large number of space rocks flying through our skies, and the record number, I suppose it would be...and the record number of these other earth-bound events.

Niall: I think we can definitely say there is, because so often people record either because they've felt it, or official seismic monitors pick up earthquakes, but they're not the typical...they don't fit within the range of what there's typically expected from earthquakes, you know? They don' have proper the waves. So you get a lot of earthquake-type noises that, in fact...they're left open, because they can't really categorize them as earthquakes.

Joe: Right. So, you're saying is that there could be some kind of overhead meteorite explosion that's causing a boom, that no one necessarily saw maybe, because it was in the middle of the day, maybe it was one these other such things, invisible fireballs, I don't know. People are hearing booms all around the world and they're ascribing them to either plate tectonics or...they really don't know.

Niall: Right. Well, they call them "mystery booms". Yeah, I've seen countless articles about sonic booms, or mystery booms, where no one knows where they come from.

Joe: Um hm.

Niall: The USGS and other official bodies cannot tell you, because they didn't pick up an earthquake, and yet there're these localised tremors with short bursts perhaps...

Joe: Okay.

Niall: about 30.2...

Joe: Well, all of this kind of began for me, or the point when I started to sit up and take notice, was really, I mean I've been watching this for many years but, when I really sat up and took notice was 2011, the winter December 2010, January 2011, when the first thing that caught my eye was this large number of animal die-offs.

Niall: Right.

Joe: At the end of 2010, beginning of 2011, we had this large number of bird die-offs, fish die-offs, basically different kinds of sea animals, and animals in rivers and lakes, and also birds. There was a...we wrote an article about it at the time, about this mass bird die-off over Beebe, Arkansas...

Niall: Right, blackbirds...

Joe: Yeah, blackbirds fell from the sky, and we put that down to basically an overhead meteor burst at that time. But there were many other bird-die-offs, and fish die-offs, and it's hard to know whether they would be directly...whether they would be related to the same kind of fireball activity. But then the really weird thing was that, one year later, almost to the day,

Niall: It was to the day, I mean that same night...

Joe: Yeah, that really puts a kind of high strangeness...

Niall: Yeah

Joe: ...factor on it there, you know? I mean, it's almost like, I mean, how does a...how do these fireballs...how do they "plan" this a year in advance type of thing, if that's what it was, you know? But basically birds fell out of the sky in the same area, to the day, one year later. Then 2011 was very interesting. 2011 you had...in February you had that major Christchurch earthquake in New Zealand, then a couple of weeks later, you had the massive earthquake in Japan, and the major tsunami. And then later on that year you have this massive cyclone, Yasi...

Niall: In Australia, right.

Joe: Which basically covered almost all of Australia or half of Australia, and you also had a major eruption of a Sicilian volcano, and at the time the smoke spread all the way across the Pacific over to Australia and New Zealand, you know? So, 2011 for me was the year when, even if you weren't really paying attention to this kind of thing, you should have sat up and took notice, you know. And since then it's just been continuing, it's been non-stop in terms of wild, weird weather. Animal die-offs have continued, and major storms, harsh winters, floods, crops destroyed by floods, or crops destroyed by drought, one or the other, by drought in the U.S, by floods in the U.K. for example, so yeah. Laura, have you got a comment on this, or are we doing ok? (laughter)

Joe: I take your silence to be approval. You'd better jump in.

Laura: Well, I was actually moving my microphone a little closer, because I was going to say something...

Joe: I knew it.

Laura: I was going to point out the fact ... Knew it? How did you guess?

Joe: That look on your face!

Laura: Well, at least this week I don't have curlers in my hair!

Joe: Yeah. That's a good thing. (laughter) That's a blessing!

Laura: No, I was going to say that the one thing that really amazes me is that six, seven, eight, ten years ago, when these types of things, mainly the fireballs or the meteorites, that were landing on the ground, 'cause it's not a meteorite 'till it hits the ground. That they would say this is a 'once-in-hundred-year' or a 'once-in-a-century' event. And then a few years later, after it happened a few more times, it was a 'once-in-a-lifetime' event. And then a year or two later then it became a 'once-in-a-decade' event. And then a little while later it became "occasionally happens". Now all of the sudden, it's a "frequent event", and you know, it just basically "go back to sleep, nothing to see here", despite the fact that when I was growing up, and even as recently as ten years ago, people were still saying that these things were a once in a century events. And I have a book about asteroids and comets that begins with "Nobody has ever been injured by a meteorite."

Joe: When was that published?

Laura: Um, back in the late seventies, early eighties.

Joe: Right. And since then, plenty of people have been hit by meteorites.

Laura: Well the thing is, is even at that point it wasn't true, because I have compiled a list of, you know, near-misses, actual hits, destruction of property, injury of human beings...there's quite a scattering of those events throughout time. But it really, really is, it's intensifying. It's increasing at a remarkable level, and I just wanted to point out that if anybody thinks that this is not an increasing and intensifying period of this kind of activity, please! Check the material, check the records, do the research. Find out its' happening. And it's bizarre! That's it.

Joe: Absolutely.

Laura: Over and out, rubber ducky!

Joe: All right. 10-4! (laughter)

Joe: Yeah, so... I don't know. We'd like some people to call in here and tell us if they...not necessarily if they agree or disagree...well, if you agree or disagree, you can call in and tell us. But, maybe if you can tell us about the kind of awareness that you perceive in your community, or with your family or friends or whatever, about these kinds of things. If anybody that you know that isn't generally interested in this kind of thing, or doesn't keep up with it in the way that you might do. If any of them are aware of, or made any comment, or if any of them are crapping themselves, as they should be...

Laura: That's not very nice...

Joe: Sorry, that's...

Laura: I want to kick in here. We've got a list of news items; it's quite a lengthy list. In fact, I'm just going to hit the one that showed up in the last day or so, which is that the Northern Hemisphere set a new, all-time record cold temperature of -96.1 degrees Fahrenheit in Oymyakon, Siberia. That's 71.2, minus 71.2 Centigrade, and it shatters the previous record of -68 Centigrade, which is -90.4 Fahrenheit, which was set in 1933.

So it's been that long since the record was set. It hasn't been broken in all of those years, which is by my counting is, seventy, eighty, eighty-some years since that record's been broken. And I don't know if any of you all have ever tried cryotherapy, I have. In cryotherapy you get in a chamber and it rapidly, by liquid nitrogen, they drop the temperature on you. And I mean, I've stood in this chamber and looked at the temperature in the chamber that I'm standing in, basically naked except for my underwear and a pair of socks. And let me tell you what. It's freaking cold! And the temperature goes down to 80, minus 80!

Niall: Minus 80 Fahrenheit.

Laura: No, I think it was centigrade!

Joe: Yeah.

Laura: Yeah, it was centigrade, wasn't it? It was freaking cold! And I mean it's like needles. How long did they make us stand in that thing?

Joe: I mean it got to the low temperature for 10-20 seconds. It was a minute, minute and a half or something like that total it was down to that temperature?

Anna: Around three minutes.

Laura: It dropped!

Joe: It dropped progressively to that temperature, so...but yeah, a minute and a half was more than enough. You can get burned!

Laura: We were in there for more than a minute and a half, weren't we? Wasn't it three minutes?

Joe: I don't know.

Anna: Three minutes, that's the maximum, I think.

Joe: That was for brave people. But it burns you, yeah. So minus 80?

Niall: Right now it's like the whole world is getting, well at least the Northern Hemisphere, is getting a dose of cosmic cryotherapy.

Laura: Yeah, but at the same time, you're also having periods of record heat. "Australian heat wave nears 50 degrees Centigrade inland." I mean 50 degrees?

Joe: Yeah, 50. They had to put a new colour on their [mapping] bar in Australia a few months back.

Laura: I don't even know what that is in Fahrenheit because they don't give the figure here...

Joe: It's like a hundred and twenty maybe....

Laura: A hundred and twenty?

Niall: No, it's gonna be more than that....

Laura: Okay, we've got "Record snowfall closes lifts and roads in the Pyrenees." Eleven... meters.... of... snow. Now a meter is 39 inches according to what I remember from my days in school...

Joe: About 35 feet.

Laura: Yes. That's 35 feet of snow. Now just...you know, that's taller than most houses! From what I understand, houses and cars are covered and there's no traffic moving or anything over there. Eleven meters of snow! Now we've got the "Snowiest winter in 100 years" in Moscow. And this was from the 5th of February. And you put that together with the Northern Hemisphere sets an eighty years lowest temperature record, so we've got the snowiest winter in a hundred years. And then we've got a Tuscan blizzard. They were playing golf in sunny Tuscan, right, and they got a blizzard. Can you believe that? "Snow in Phoenix?"...these are just headlines. "A Mediterranean deluge, cloudburst dumped copious quantities of rain on Catania, Sicily and Athens. Flash-flooding puts Athens, Greece under water following one of the worst thunderstorms we've ever seen." Okay, another one. "Downpours make 2012 England's wettest year on record". They don't say since when, they just say "on record".

Joe: Ever!

Laura: Since ever!

Niall: Yeah, since they've kept records.

Laura: Yeah. 2011 was the deadliest tornado season in fifty years. "Christmas storm in 2012 brings record tornado outbreak"...when did you ever hear of tornados in the wintertime? I mean, come on! When I was growing up, and I'm sixty-some years old, I'm not even going to admit to how old I am, but you know, when I was growing up....I just did, didn't I? (laughter) You know, you never had tornados in the wintertime. Tornados were a spring or an autumn phenomenon. You didn't have them in the wintertime.

Joe: Yeah, well, April...April in 2011 was the Joplin one?

Laura: Yeah, usually it's in the spring...

Joe: In Missouri, and that one was really bad. It was a mile-wide one, and it killed 138 people. So that wasn't your average tornado, you know?

Laura: And of course we've got cyclone frequency increasing, "Texas suffers record drought", I mean, geeze, there's another whole list here. "City scorches under record high temperatures", "Croatia snowfall shatters record", "Phoenix to break 25-year record low", "Chicago expected to tie record for lack of snow"??

Niall: While at the same time it's snowing down in Tuscan...

Everyone: Tuscan! (correcting pronunciation, sounds like Twosan)

Laura: He's Irish; you have to forgive him for that.

Joe: I'm Irish as well, and I knew it was Tuscan, so...

Niall: Well, good for you! (laughter)

Laura: Anyhow, so we've got the greatest snow on record for December in the Northern Hemisphere, "Record cold snap grips the Korean peninsula", "Snow cover sets new record for the U.S.", that's January of 2013, "Record-breaking snowfall in Montreal", "Heavy snow in South Korea breaks December record"... oh, geeze....how many pages of this did you print out? Good lord!

Niall: It's going back a year. These are records broken just for one...

Laura: Just in the year. Ok, "Shimla, India witnesses eight-year record-breaking snow fall in a single day". "NASA's alarming map of the worst Australian heat wave on record", "Winter storm Caesar dumps record-breaking snow in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and South Dakota", "Erratic swings of the jet stream leave southern U.S. baking in record December heat", "November brings record highs without rainfall". Get this one: "218 inches of snow in four days: Mount Shasta." What is 218 inches? I mean they give these figures in such variable terms. I mean, how many meters is that?

Joe: (calculating) Well, twelve inches to a foot, so you've got a bit less than 20 feet?

Laura: Twenty feet and that's basically... that's six meters...

Joe: Roughly.

Laura: Of snow...

Joe: In four days.

Laura: Geeze!

Joe: I noticed you mentioned the record heat there, so obviously we're talking about global warming here, right?

Laura: I think we're just talking about extreme weather, in whatever context it is. I mean, you're probably having heat when it's not supposed to be hot. You're having cold when it's supposed to be warm, you're having record...I mean the whole record-breaking thing is just freaking bizarre! And we don't really have any scientists giving us rational explanations for this, because obviously we can't trust those IPCC guys who are saying, "It's all global warming. You have to kill all the cows so they won't be passing gas! "

Joe: It's worse than that. Some of them are deliberately lying to us.

Laura: Well, of course they are!

Joe: They're hiding the decline; they tried to hide the decline. So if someone...and I mean that whole thing with the East Anglia Institute...

Niall: Climate-gate!

Joe: ...the climate research centre in the U.K., where those leaked emails showed that there were, that these scientists were...some of them were conspiring to hide evidence...

Laura: Consciously and deliberately!

Joe: But we're into conspiracy territory now. Why would they do that?

Laura: Well, I have my theory. Everybody knows what my theory is, don't they?

Joe: Uhh, no.

Laura: Well, they don't want people to know that earth changes are really happening.

Joe: But they're telling people on the global warming theory, that there will be earth changes. Uh well not necessarily earth changes, but climate change.

Laura: Only of the global warming variety. We wish...

Joe: Which can cause floods and all this kind of stuff, but generally it's a warming, overall. So they want to stop people getting the idea...

Laura: That they're gonna be freezing their buns off!

Joe: Yes. But they also put it back quite a few years. They don't talk about any kind of immediacy to any change. So this is kind of...I've been thinking about why they would want, even if they put it back a few years, why they're ok with telling people that the planet's going to warm up, that we're going to have crazy weather, droughts and all this kind of stuff, and floods. They don't mention snow too much. They say the glaciers will retreat and there will be milder winters, etc., etc. But they are saying there will be some kind of climate change and it will be pretty bad on humanity. But they want to...they do not want to talk about any kind of an ice age, or global cooling. Why? I suppose it's because it's man-made, right? Because the idea is you can't really ...

Laura: Well, but if you can blame people for it, then you can charge them money, and get rich on their suffering.

Joe: Right. So the whole idea behind global warming is that global warming can be tied to man-made, to human production of CO2, or whatever, burning of fossil fuels, but global cooling cannot.

Niall: Well, what they've done is they've adapted the global warming concept. Now they can actually say that "Well, all this freezing weather we're having, it too is a result of global warming." So you've got...

Laura: They actually freaking say that.

Niall: Yeah. Warming temperatures give more precipitation, and there's more precipitation in the system, and somehow explain that that's what results in colder winters with more snow. But that wasn't the story they were giving us ten years ago. I remember reading that we would not be able to ski, in ten years' time, about ten years ago...

Laura: Yeah, the glaciers were melting, and there was something going on in Tibet where all the snow was going away...

Niall: Right

Laura: ...and there were poor polar bears that didn't have any more ice...

Joe: Yup.

Laura: ...and the whole thing. Oh, the other thing that was going to come with global warming was going to be the rise in the sea level. That all of these places along the coastlines were going to be inundated, because with the Greenland ice sheet, and the Arctic and Antarctic ice sheets melting, as they were proclaiming, you know, it was going to turn into water!

Niall: So the sea level would rise, and if you were living in the coastal areas, over a course of decades, you would be in danger of being inundated.

Laura: What I want to know is why the IPCC never said anything about the tremendous increase of storm activity, the tremendous increase of snow, and the horrible things that are actually happening in increase in earthquakes, the tsunamis, the volcanic eruptions...

Anna: Sinkholes

Laura: ...sinkholes. I mean, why didn't they warn us about any of this stuff, you know? I mean, if they're so all-wise and all-knowing, and they can sit there and issue this stupid report based on false data...you know, why didn't they tell us something true?

Niall: Well, because it would scare people right?

Laura: Well of course it would scare people. But they're scaring people anyway, because they're scaring people out of their money!

Joe: Exactly.

Niall: Well, they're scaring people, kind of. They're scaring people by...people have been...they've sort of been anticipating climate change, but it's projected well into the future. So, yeah, it's dangerous and we'll scare you, but...

Anna: It's far off and recoverable.

Niall: Exactly. "You can do something about it."

Joe: Yeah, if you just recycle and buy those mercury-laden eco-light bulbs. Just don't break them because you might die, but stop using traditional light bulbs and you'll save the planet.

Laura: Well there's another thing I think that, you know, when they talk about the difference between it being too hot or too cold, everybody thinks, well if it gets too hot you can sit really still. You know, turn a fan on or be in the air conditioning, or you could travel north even, where it's cooler. But if you start thinking about things getting really colder all over the planet...you know, nobody likes to be cold. Well, I mean there're some really weird people, and there's some even in this house that take cold showers after they got exposed to cryotherapy. But, at the same time, people as a rule, don't like to be cold.

Anna: It can be painful.

Laura: Yeah. Being cold is painful. In fact, there's even a theory that the ice age; that the coldness of the ice age is what drove evolution, because cold was painful, and creatures learned how to build fires and cook food, or they accidentally cooked food after they built the fire. So there's some theory that the pain of cold drove people to get smarter.

Joe: Yeah. Maybe that's where cannibalism came from originally. They invented fire, and then somebody fell into it. (laughter) and they were like "Dinner!"

But yeah, there's a...a listener has just sent in an article from SOTT.net. It's a flashback from 2008, "'Ice Ages start and end so suddenly, it's like a button was pressed,' say scientists."

Laura: This is true.

Niall: Well, this is interesting. There is research that doesn't fall under the man-made global warming shtick. And it's really interesting. So, ice ages of past have not only formed much quicker than previously thought, but there's another report out there describing how they can happen within six months.

Joe: Well, this one says "this discovery says that climate change could undergo a similar rapid change, shifting back into ice age mode in just one year."

Laura: And the thing about an ice age is, that large areas of the planet would then be under ice sheets, like for example, England. In the last ice age it was under how many meters of ice? I think it was under several miles of ice.

Joe: Not enough! (laughter) Sorry!

Laura: Spoken like a true Irishman!

Joe: Sorry! To all our listeners, I don't mean that. Just for Tony Blair.

Laura: Yeah. So, you know, if you have all of these northern areas covered in ice, and then the more temperate areas that are closer to the equator; they're also drier, which means that there is less food production. So you're looking at conditions that basically mean starvation for 80-90% of the planet's population. And that's kind of a scary thought. We're already, because of the weather changes, facing problems with food supply. Prices are going up reflecting this shortage, and it's just not going to get any better, I don't think.

Joe: Definitely not. I mean that's something that has obviously has serious implications...or what we're talking about has serious implications for the food supply. We've had these droughts in the U.S. for the past couple of years, and floods in the U.K. But before we get into that, I just want to make the point here that obviously Al Gore is a liar, and he's a scam-artist. All of the ice core data shows that CO2 in our atmosphere follows warming, i.e., the planet warms, and then a few hundred years later, the levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increase. So it's the warming. Some factor, something causes the planet to warm, and then CO2 increases. And that is the way it's been done, the way it has occurred for thousands of years. Ice cores, all the ice core data shows that.

Laura: And whatever it is, it's something that happens at regular intervals, like clock-work, like every hundred thousand years. And it think it's, from what I recall from the data, we're really rather overdue for the onset of an ice age, and I mean a serious ice age, not just a mini-ice age, like the Maunder Minimum or some other periods when it got really cold. And when these ice ages come on, you know, they do it very quickly.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: Absolutely. The global warming business...well, we can just dispense with the global warming, because it's just a complete lie. And like I said, Al Gore is a liar, and a scam-artist, and he has made a lot of money from companies that he set up, that have invested in these kinds of green technologies that he was trying to push governments around the world to invest in. And then they would use the services, employ the services of his companies to "greenify" or "go green" basically.

Laura: Well, that's like the whole terror industry. You create a 'war on terror', and then all of your companies that make machines that deprive people of their privacy when they're going through an airport or Tasers or various types of crowd control technology and so on and so forth. They're all getting rich as Croesus on government contracts, and meanwhile the government is going further and further into the red to pay all this money to these companies. Somewhere it's got to come from somebody, and of course, naturally those somebodies are the people, who don't have that much money. So I guess the solution is people will just have to sell themselves; become slaves. And then that will balance the federal budget.

Joe: Absolutely. So it's basically we're talking about corruption. It's not like governments haven't meddled and distorted scientific evidence before. I mean, there's clear evidence that governments have done that when they...when the work of scientists didn't jive with their money-making schemes and their cronyism with big business. They've basically suppressed it. Deliberately, I mean. There's this guy, we were watching a video on GMOs the other day, and he's a Hungarian biochemist and nutritionist. His name is Arpad Pusztai. He was working 35 years in a research institute in Aberdeen in Scotland. He is an expert on plant lectins and he's authored 270 papers and three books on the subject. And in 1998, he was looking at GMO potatoes and he was feeding them to mice, and he was finding all these problems. In a 90-second interview, he came out and he said. "Listen, I wouldn't eat these things, based on my research." He's a hard-core scientist and it was very well-done research, and it was all above board. And the mice were basically dying and having deformed offspring and things like that, and he said "No way I wouldn't until", and this is in 1998, no way would he eat this...

Niall: And I should point out that he was doing his research to pass with flying colours, the GMOs. He didn't enter this with any suspicions or negative approach.

Joe: And because he came up with the wrong results...and initially the director of the institute was ecstatic about it because it was big news, and it was going to be publicity for the institute. He put out press releases extolling Pusztai's work, his results. And then he got a call from the office of newly-elected Prime Minister Tony Blair, who we can only assume, before that, received a call from the office of Monsanto. So Blair basically had a talk with the director, and within the day Pusztai was fired from his job...

Anna: Of thirty-five years.

Joe: ...of thirty-five years of impeccable research...

Niall: And the project was shut down and they took all the data from him, he couldn't have them.

Joe: And he was vilified. I mean, this was public knowledge that Blair directly, in the service of, obviously in the service of big agri-business, specifically probably Monsanto and Syngenta and companies like that, destroyed this guy's career because he produced hard data, good research.

Laura: He's not the only one. There are so many scientist, so many really good scientists who have been destroyed by politics because their devotion to truth is greater than their liking for the dollar.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: Absolutely.

Niall: The problem is rife just as much in global warming.

Joe: Absolutely. Well, that's the parallel here. They do it in so many different fields of, or areas of science. It's the same thing we're dealing with in terms of climate research and what is really going on, on our planet. And they don't want people to know, because...maybe not necessarily, I don't know if it ties into big business, but someone somewhere, for a long time, has wanted to make sure that the people do not know what is really going on, on the planet and they fed them the global warming lie. That it's your fault, you know. "Recycle your food, recycle your trash and go green, and everything will be fine." when it's bullshit because there's stuff going on that is clearly way beyond the ability of anyone on this planet to control, any government or any leader, or any person to control.

Laura: Well you know, there was an article that we put on SoTT, we carried on SoTT today, or possibly yesterday or today, but it's one of the Best of the Web, which is comparing the collapse of Rome to the current civilization. You know it's an interesting little thing, because basically all it does is make political comparisons. The political comparisons are really accurate as far as they go, but they don't really talk about some of the other things that were going on in Rome at the time of the collapse of the Roman Empire. As you all know, these are the topics that I'm working with in the current series of Secret History books. I'm approaching the collapse of Rome, and one of the reasons I've gone after it this way, in this slow, deliberate way in these books, is I want to really chronicle what was going on during those times. For everybody to be fully aware that what we're seeing here and now is more than just political comparisons. There are global, climate, social...

Niall: Environmental...

Laura: Yeah, environmental, economic comparisons to be drawn. And I don't know, well most people aren't really terribly into history because history is taught in such a boring way that most people really get turned off to it, which is really sad, because to me history is the biggest mystery of our time, and what Joe just said, which is that somebody has been covering things up for a long time. Well, they've been covering it up for a lot longer than anybody ever suspects. Because in point of fact, the chronicles of the fourth century do not mention that there was a whole lot of cometary activity running in the background. Based on the records kept by the Chinese court astronomers, that century had the highest flux of comets on record! They have comets listed in 295, which was Halley's, and then there was in 300, 301, 302, 303, 305, another in 305, one in 315, one in 329, 336, 340, 343, 349, 358, 363, 374, which was Halley's again, 383, and another one in 390. And the fact that these things were not mentioned by the Western chroniclers of that time is truly astonishing.

So the point I'm trying to make is, it's important to keep in mind that there was a constant, fearful, cosmic pressure on the Roman Empire in the century or two leading up to its complete collapse. I've got a little printout here of some of the events that were happening during that time, that I was thinking I was gonna read some of it to you, because some of these things are so interesting, and I don't think people are aware of them. Everybody knows that in 312, Constantine went to Rome to deal with his usurping co-emperor and brother-in-law Maxentius, and that on the evening of October 27, their two legions, their two groups of legions met at the Milvian Bridge on the Tiber River. The church chronicler Eusebius wrote in his book, The Life of Constantine, that before this battle, above the setting sun the night before the battle, Constantine and his troops saw a cross in the sky, and above it were the words, Hoc Signo Victor Eris which means, "In this sign you shall be victorious." Supposedly that night Christ appeared to him with a cross and told him to use it as a guardian. The next morning he had this sign of God placed on his helmet and the shields of his men. Eusebius claimed that he was given this account by the emperor himself years afterward, but another chronicler, another Christian chronicler of very dubious reliability named Lactantius a few years later, wrote that Constantine actually had a vision of Apollo at the temple in Gaul, who instructed him to place the celestial sign of God on their shields, prior to going into battle.

But in any event, whatever was happening, it turns out that some researchers discovered that there was actually an event at that time in a place called Prati del Sirente, a mountainous highland north of the Sirente massif, in the Appeninnes which is thirteen kilometers from the small village of Secinaro. In the late 1990's, the peculiar appearance of the ridge attracted the attention of geologist Jens Orm枚, a Swedish impact-crater specialist. He set up a research team along with some colleagues from the International Research School of Planetary Science, and they decided to look into this matter. And what they found was that there was a large crater, and a crater field that was composed of thirty individual depressions in the Sirente area. Now, until people experienced this recent Russian fireball exploding, it would be a little bit difficult to understand why there were thirty depressions in the ground, but when you hear.... can we hear that again? Do you want to hear the explosions?

Joe: Oh, I think we can probably....

Laura: I mean there's so many. I want you to listen to this!

Joe: ...indulge you here, Laura.

Laura: Yeah, indulge me, play it again.

(recording of massive fireball explosion, many minor explosions following)

Laura: I think we can cut it now, because it just goes on...

Joe: It just keeps going.

Laura: Because what I want to draw your attention to are all these multiple, smaller explosions. Now I don't know how many of you all have really studied the Tunguska impact, but one of the features of the Tunguska impact is a lot of oblong depressions in the ground that are from multiple, smaller blasts. It wasn't just a single large blast. It was probably very much like this one we've just heard where there are many, multiple smaller blasts. And the reason for that is comets, comet fragments, as soon as they separate from the main body, they basically have a life of their own, and comets do tend to fragment. That's what they do, they fragment.

There have been many witnesses of comet fragmentation in the sky. There are lots of photographs on the internet that you can get of like, Comet Holmes and a few others. Shoemaker-Levy is one of the chief examples, Shoemaker-Levy with all of its twenty, or however many pieces that impacted Jupiter, boom-boom-boom, one after the other. But is can happen on a smaller scale as we've just heard, where one fragment comes into the atmosphere, it fragments, and there's a great Thunderbolt video on that, where they show like a negative image of the comet exploding and all the little pieces that are blowing off of it, and each one of those pieces becomes an impacter on its own, which is the cause of all these multiple explosions.

So anyhow, at Sirente there are these thirty smaller impact craters. When you consider the story of the impacts that were theorized to have occurred 13,000 years ago, all across the globe, that destroyed all the mega-fauna on the planet, and left what's called the Carolina Bays, then you realize there's a hundred, over a hundred thousand of them. You're talking about some massive, massive cometary explosions in the air. And you know, some of these bays are like the sizes of lakes! In fact, many of them are lakes, they've become lakes. But anyway, so we've got the Sirente crater, and what we have here is that an impact generating a crater the size of the Sirente crater would have been visible from a great distance, as a flaming fireball with an extended trail of smoke behind it, exploding in a pyrotechnic show of bolides, or as a mushroom cloud of about a 1-kiloton nuclear bomb.

An account of just such an event is contained in a local Italian story that is supposed to explain the region's religious conversion from paganism to Christianity. This oral legend has been suggested to be a possible historical recording of that impact event. Let me read it to you. Interesting. Here is the actual recording of the, it's a written recording, a written record of the story that's told. So it goes:

"It was in the afternoon. An uproar hit the mountain and quartered the giant oaks, announcing the violent arrival of Goddess. A sudden and intense heat overwhelmed the people and a shout echoed all around, splitting the air with its trail of violence."

Laura: Well, you just heard what that sounds like, and if you've been paying attention, watching the videos on the internet, you know what it looks like too.

"All of the sudden, over there in the distance, in the sky, a new star never seen before, bigger than the other ones, came nearer and nearer, appeared and disappeared behind the tops of the eastern mountains. People's eyes looked at the strange light growing bigger and bigger. Soon the start shone as large as a new sun."

Laura: Remember what you were seeing on the Russian meteorite, meteor, whatever it was.

"Soon the star shone as large as a new sun. An irresistible dazzling light pervaded the sky."

Laura: Okay?

Joe: Irresistible.

"The oak leaves shuddered, discoloured and curled up. The forest lost its sap. The Sirente was shaking. In a tremendous rumble, the statues sank into a sudden chasm. The satyrs and bacchantes fell down senseless. A huge silence fell. It seemed as if time had stopped in the ancient wood near the Temple at the foot of the Sirente and it looked like the mountain had never existed. The entire valley became dumb. Not a breath of wind could be heard, nor sheep bleating from the numerous herds, nor a rustle from the trees, nor a human sound. After an endless period of time, when stars shone in the sky without the moon, a new breeze came to stir the leaves. Sheep were heard again, and the mountain was dressed in the light of a new dawn. Faint stars disappeared and the blue skies slowly came back, and the Sirente became a golden mountain in the first rays of the new sun."

Laura: Oh, charming.

"It looked like the valley was full of roses newly awake. Men listened closely to the death-rattle of the Goddess at the foot of the wood and then they saw the statue of the Madonna with the Holy Child in her arms, who was sitting on a throne of light, surrounded by light."

Laura: Well...

Joe: I see.

Anna: Wow.

Laura: It obviously acquired...

Joe: A religious gloss?

Laura: Yeah, yeah, a little bit of a gloss there in the telling and retelling. In any event, radio-carbon dating fixed the formation of the main crater within the fourth or the fifth century AD. And it was also noted that in the fourth century AD, the time we're talking about here, a local Roman village was abandoned. A local Christian catacomb dating back to the same century was suddenly filled up with many cadavers piled in a hurried manner, due to some calamity. The conjecture is that this event actually occurred in 312 AD, and is what Constantine saw. And that what he may have seen could have been something like a mushroom cloud of a comet overhead explosion, just exactly what we just recently experienced on a very much smaller scale, in Russia.

Joe: So that was about 1600 years ago?

Laura: Um-hmm.

Joe: And it was also at the height of an empire that had become extremely corrupt.

Laura: Extremely corrupt. Well, the corruption of Rome really began almost from the beginning. You can hardly think of a spot where things really got bad, but I would say during the time immediately preceding Caesar was when things were as bad as they could possibly get. And of course, you know that after Caesar was assassinated, the republic ended and they then went to having emperors...

Joe: Which is just a new level of corruption really.

Laura: Yeah, so from going to emperors, for what, two, three, four hundred years of empire, of extremely corrupt empire, and then, you know....

Joe: It just disappeared.

Laura: Yeah, it really did kind of disappear, but here's another item that I've collected for my next book, and you all are getting some inside stuff here on the next book....

But the thing is...the next thing that Eusebius records is he gives a detailed description of famine and epidemics that fell on the Empire in the winter of 312-313. He says, "The normal winter rain did not come", and I quote, "when without warning, famine struck, followed by pestilence and an outbreak of a different disease, a malignant pustule, which because of its fiery appearance, was known as a carbuncle. They spread over the entire body causing great danger to the sufferers, but the eyes were the chief target for attack, and hundreds of men, women, and children lost their sight." So this comet was accompanied by pestilence, or plague.

Anna: Famine and pestilence.

Joe: And pustules.

Laura: Well, don't keep saying that word.

Joe: Well, you said it first.

Laura: I only read it! We don't like the word.

Joe: It's on the record now.

Laura: So, famine and pestilence was raging. And when you consider that along with the Sirente impact crater, the whole conversion of Constantine takes on a whoooole different light now, doesn't it?

Joe: It does indeed. And there's also striking, or perhaps startling, parallels with today, like we just mentioned you know? You had an empire at the height of corruption, and you have these historical accounts of fireballs in the sky, and bodies piled high and stuff. We haven't quite gotten there yet. Certainly in terms of corruption, we have. We're just starting to see the first major incidences of fireballs in the sky...

Laura: Well, it's a....

Joe: ...well, doing some damage on the ground. Or course, there's been a large number of them spotted and seen in the skies.

Laura: The problem is that people think about earth changes or quote, the end of the world, unquote, and they all think it's gotta happen in a day. You know, everybody's gonna be transformed, they're either gonna be airlifted to the sky, or they're gonna be raptured, or airlifted by aliens. Or, conversely, they're gonna be damned to some kind of horrible Scorpionic appearances on the planet where these giant creatures are gonna stomp around and cause everybody misery, you know, the Tribulation or whatever.

The thing is, the historical record show that the world has ended, it's ended numerous times. And I say the world is ending in the sense of the environment becomes so stressed that lots of people die, things get very, very bad, and go very quiet for a while, while human beings struggle to recover the arts of civilization. And then the new world is a completely different thing. It's quite different from the world that went before. So you could say that the world that was before did end. But these things happen over time, and I would say that probably the beginning of our 'end of the world' was 1908, when Tunguska was impacted by an explosion. So we've already...we're well over a hundred years in it.

Joe: Past our sell-by date?

Laura: Well, into the process. And things are just getting...and it follows very closely the process that I have discovered was going on in Rome. It began, for example, Constantine's event in 312, the Sirente impact, would have been kind of like a Tunguska event. And then things got a little bit more interesting because in 365, which is, uh, what fifty-three years later? There about?

Joe: Yeah.

Laura: There was a strange tsunami. And this tsunami was recorded. It was so unusual that it was recorded by quite a number of the ancient chroniclers. Now you have to dig for this stuff. There's a lot of things you can get...you can get Ammianus Marcellinus in the Loeb Classical Library sets, but some of the material that I've got that's going into this book, I've had to actually get it translated myself, because a lot of it simply isn't in any modern language. The scholars keep this stuff to themselves. It's in the ancient Greek or the ancient Latin, and they sit around and read it, and pass it back and forth between each other, and they say "Oh, we're not going to translate that for the public. They don't need to know that." Well, guess what? It's gonna happen!

Anyway, Ammianus tells us about the tsunami of 365, so let me describe this to you. Skipping over the material that dates the event, which was when so-and-so was a Consulate etc., he says:

"Fearsome terrors suddenly strode through the whole circle of the world of the like of which neither legends nor truthful ancient histories tell us. Slightly after daybreak, and heralded by a thick succession of fiercely-shaken thunderbolts,"

Laura: Now keep in in mind that there was really only one word that they used interchangeably for thunderbolts, for lightning and for the actual sound of thunder in the sky. There was one word that was for the flash of light, but they really didn't have the language to accurately describe what they were talking about. But here he says "a thick succession of fiercely-shaken thunderbolts." Well, that sounds rather like what we just heard on our little audio of the Russian comet fragment explosion. He says:

"The solidity of the whole earth was made to shake and shudder, and the sea was driven away. Its waves were rolled back, and it disappeared so that the abyss of the depths was uncovered, and many shaped varieties of sea-creatures were seen stuck in the slime. The great wastes of those valleys and mountains which the very Creation had dismissed beneath the vast whirlpools, at that moment, as it was given to be believed, looked up at the sun's rays. Many ships were stranded as if on dry land, and people wandered at will about the remains of the water to collect fish in their hands.

"Then the roaring sea, as if insulted by its repulse, rose back in turn, and through the teeming shoals, dashed itself violently on the islands and extensive tracts of the mainland, and flattened innumerable buildings and towns wherever they were found. Thus, the raging conflict of the elements, the face of the earth was changed to reveal wondrous sights, for the mass of waters returning when least expected, killed many thousands by drowning. And with the tides whipped up to a great height as they rushed back, some ships, after the anger of the watery element had grown old, seem to have sunk. The bodies of people killed in shipwrecks lay there, face up or down. Other huge ships thrust out by the mad blasts, perched on the roofs of houses as happened at Alexandria, and others were hurled nearly two miles from the shore."

Joe: So, that was a tsunami?

Laura: That was a tsunami, but it was preceded by a "thick succession of fiercely-shaken thunderbolts." This is the odd thing about it. Well, we've already talked about people hearing these booms and associating them with tectonic movement. So on this one, without any more definitive information, you'd have to leave it open. It could be that it was just a really horrible earthquake in the Mediterranean and...

Joe: What year was that?

Laura: That was in 365.

Joe: Okay, so we're talking about the same time period when there were obviously overhead meteorite explosions and meteorite impacts on the ground? So all of this...

Laura: Well, that whole year...

Joe: ...was going on.

Laura: ...Remember I read this list of the numbers of comets that were seen in that period of time. There wasn't one, well there was one in 363 from the list here. We've got 349, 358, 363, 374, and then another in 374, one was Halley's, etc., etc.

Joe: So we're basically, what you're reading there, and what your historical record shows that what we're seeing today was more or less, happening sixteen hundred years ago.

Laura: You ain't seen nothing, you ain't seen nothing yet!

Joe: I mean back to that major tsunami in Indonesia in 2004, what was it 2004?

Niall: Yeah, it killed a quarter-million people.

Joe: Yeah 250-300,00 people, and all the stuff that's happened since then, and it has been together with...they've all been happening together with these fireballs, increasing weird weather, increasing earthquakes, volcanoes, and all sorts of upsetting stuff, you know. So, I just find it very interesting. But, one of the things that I wanted to ask you, Laura, was how all of that...how this climate change or earth changes that we're talking about, how it ties into the idea of an increase in fireballs and comets? But before you answer, we're going to go to a commercial break, so you have some time to think about it. And then after the commercial break, we' going to have a musical interlude, so we'll get into that as soon as we get back.

(Spot for Horns of Moses, and song Makin' Bacon by Relic)

Joe: All right, that was Makin' Bacon by Relic. We're going to be talking about making bacon later on in the show, a little bit, and you'll see, it relates to the topic. (laughter)

Laura: I'm waiting to see how you're gonna do that.

Joe: I'm going to segue into that...

Laura: Oh yeah

Joe: ...very sneakily. So, our question beforehand, that I wanted to just talk about a little bit was, maybe some people don't fully understand the link between comets, increasing cometary fragments, meteorites, meteors in the sky, and all of the earth changes that we have been seeing, and the question is: do they relate? Are they related? I mean, from the historical record they seem to...

Laura: Well, I haven't even...I haven't really gotten into my historical records...

Joe: Well, you've hinted.

Laura: You just let me...you just let me have two items here!

Joe: I know, well, you can have another one.

Laura: Well, just hold on, I'll get there. I wanna have more than one. The other day I caught a news item that people were making fun of some news anchor on mainstream television who apparently asked, "Well, does this meteor explosion in Russia have anything to do with global warming?" And everybody made fun of her, and laughed uproariously...

Joe: As they should have. (laughter) I did!

Laura: Well, the funny thing is, is in her obliviousness she actually hit on something very, very important. That there is probably, and possibly, something...there's a strong correlation between the climate change on the planet and the increasing fireball flux. One of the things that we have been chronicling on SoTT for quite a few years now, has been the fact that, all of the sudden Jupiter acquired many, many, many more moons. It went from twelve to like, sixty-four. And then there were moons added to Saturn, moons added to Uranus I think, you know, whatever.

All of this was coming along with the increasing fireball flux around our planet. So there was the other thing that was noted was that there was this global warming going on, on Mars, Venus, probably Jupiter and Saturn. They're having unusual weather anomalies there. So it's like a solar system-warming thing going on. So on the one hand, if you want to say the earth is experiencing global warming simply because it's involved in a period of fireball flux due to the Taurid meteor streams, which are the remains of the breaking up of a giant comet, according to the theories of Victor Clube, and he has some pretty good scientific backing for that idea so don't dismiss it. But there seems to be more than that, because it doesn't seem that just having the earth passing through a dangerous period in terms of comet streams, you know, the earth itself could warm the solar system, all the other planets of the solar system.

I suspect it's something to do with more like electrical activity, like....plasma physics would explain it better than anything else. That's something I've written about, with the help of an expert, in my book The Horns of Moses. So if you think I sound like I know what I'm talking about when I'm talking about the electric universe, it's only because I got help on that one. But in any event, the material is there, and I do think there is a definite relationship between this global situation on our planet, the fireball flux, the erratic weather, the strange things going on in the skies, and also, very important, the quiescence of the sun. We're supposed to be in a raging maximum. I don't know if you guys were paying attention to the last solar maximum, but I was! What was it 2003, 2004? And it was like, every day, "X-class flares! X-class! Massive X-class!", and, I mean, disruptions in electronics, and computers, and telephones, and radios, and TVs, and the whole thing. And you knew when something was screwing up, 'oh there's another flare, we're getting another storm, getting another magnetic storm', boom-boom-boom. It was just really an incredible solar maximum! Well here we are in the middle of another solar maximum, and we can hardly get a damn sunspot going! And every time one shows up, one sunspot, "Uh, massive, twelve-earth-size sunspot!" I mean, oh give it a rest! You look at the sun now, and you compare photographs of the sun and the sunspots now, to the sun and sunspots of past solar maximums, I mean it's just winky, it is just not even worth talking about!

Joe: So here's the question. A low number of... or a low solar activity has been associated in the past, during the Maunder Minimum, with...

Laura: With extreme cold.

Joe: ...cold. So the sun influences earth's weather, in many different ways....

Laura: Yeah but, something else, something else is going on

Joe: ...but something else is influencing the sun.

Laura: Because we have, we do have global warming, we have simultaneously global warming, but the quiescence of the sun, so something is causing...my theory is, and I've been collecting some data that supports it, is the rotation of our planet is slowing down infinitesimally. And this slowing of our planet is causing a slippage of the lithosphere while the core continues to spin at the same speed, which increases the internal heat. This internal...this is where the heat is coming from. It's coming internally, and it is coming up through...and you know, 75% of the planet is covered with water. So, you know, we see a certain number of volcanoes erupting on land. Well, just imagine the 75% of the volcanoes that are under water. And there are reports of these massive underwater eruptions going on. The seawater is being heated, methane gas is being released, CO2 is being released, all of these things are being released into the atmosphere while at the same time the space around our planet, around our atmosphere is getting colder. There's electrical friction probably, from this comet dust, because we are definitely in a comet flux period. We're in the stream of the breakdown products of a giant comet. So these are having electrical effects on our planet. The sun is doing weird things. There are several things coming together. It's like a bio-rhythms triple-bad day.

Joe: And it's very complex.

Laura: It's very complex. It can't be answered simply and I am not an expert on this topic, although I do have access to experts who answer my questions, which is why when you read my books, you are going to be getting information that comes from experts, who may not necessarily want to have their names revealed, in terms of giving these opinions and ideas to me. But that's what I think. I think that there is definitely a connection between the fireball flux, and the weather, and it has been growing and increasing for a long time. Victor Clube, back in the eighties, predicted that during this period we would be really in a dangerous time. And he predicted this a long time ago. The fact that we have the same effects, and I have hundreds of pages of testimonies from ancient texts of what was going on back then, prior to the fall of Rome, that tell us it was exactly identical to what we are experiencing now, in terms of fireball flux, earthquakes, weird weather, rainfall, floods, all kinds of weird things. So, I don't think it's chemtrails.

Joe: It's not chemtrails?

Laura: (laughing) I don't think so!

Joe: I'm...I'm gonna go and commit suicide now! I was heavily invested in chemtrails being the explanation for everything!

Niall: But, Joe, can't you see them?

Joe: I see them every day.

Niall: Did you see the criss-crossing?

Joe: I was in a plane once that made them.

Niall: Oh, you were involved.

Joe: In fact, every plane I was in made them. (all laughing) Some people say they were contrails, but I was like, noooo, this plane has been retrofitted to spread chemtrails. I saw them out of the back of the plane. But eh, we've got a message here from someone called Pashalis and he said maybe...he said maybe some other body is grounding the system.

Laura: Well, that's what I propose in...

Joe: What does he mean by that?

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: Basically?

Laura: Well, what does he mean? Well, we're talking about a possible solar companion, say a brown dwarf or a red dwarf.

Joe: Nemesis.

Laura: Yeah, it's kind of the Nemesis thing...

Joe: It's not kooky science, it's up there on NASA's website, you know...

Niall: It's a theorised possibility.

Joe: ...of a twin; that we live in a binary system, a binary solar system.

Laura: But the thing is, what we've got going on, like I said, we do have Victor Clube's predictions for this period of time, and his mathematical retro-engineering of the orbits of various comet streams and meteor streams. It's pretty compelling evidence that there was a giant comet, that did break up, and that many of our meteorite shows that we have periodically through the year, is because we pass through these streams. His prediction based on statistical records, that we are entering a very dangerous period, is holding up really well. So there is that. But there is also the other problem. That cannot explain why the other planets in the solar system are having climate change. It can't explain the quiescence of the sun. However, a companion body, a large body like a giant planet, or a small, dark star, brown dwarf, whatever, could explain that. But it would be grounding the system outside of the system, and I don't know if you all are familiar with any of the Electric Universe ideas.

Most of its very good material, but I take exception to the idea that at some point in time, Jupiter and Saturn were much closer to the Earth than Venus, and they were all diddy-bopping around like the Little Rascals on a Saturday afternoon together. Because the point...the fact is that the ancients referred to this giant comet by the name of Saturn, and when it began to break up, then there was born a whole bunch of offspring of Saturn, including Zeus and the Titans and all the many other cometary bodies that became gods in the sky. And you can easily understand after hearing that recording of the explosion in Russia, you can understand why people thought that this was God. I mean, that was the thunderbolt of Zeus, that was Thor's Hammer, that was the Thunderbird of the Native Americans. These experiences were world-wide and nearly all the stories about them are extremely similar, these giant birds and even the Tunguska event. Now I've recounted this in my book Horns of Moses, not long after the Tunguska event, some of the tribes of the area already had created a legend about it, that it was a giant bird. And they had a name for it. So, giant birds in the skies, thunderbolts, Thor's Hammer, these different things. When you look at the ancient images of some of these so-called gods, like Ninurta, who was the equivalent of Saturn, you see them holding these things in their hands that are supposed to represent their thunderbolt. But you look at them, and they are plasmoid shapes.

Joe: Uh-hm.

Laura: You see the same things in many, many carvings, many ancient cult images and so forth. Bottom line is,is there's more going on than just the earth passing through that danger zone predicted by Victor Clube, although his prediction is very useful to us. There is something else going on. The system is being grounded, and it means that the very thing that normally protects us from cometary events, which is the solar wind, the solar radiation, you know...our own magnetic field, which is lessening, and I would say it's lessening because the power, the electricity is being drawn off out of the poles of the sun outside of the system, rather than passing through the planetary bodies in the system, lessening the magnetic fields. So we're losing our magnetic field, we've lost the sun's normal, extremely powerful bursts of solar wind and so forth, which normally protect us from comets. So we've lost our protection, at the same time that we're in a very dangerous period. Whether or not there is a solar companion, whether or not it has sent further giant comets into our system, we don't know yet. But we know we've got six new comets in the last...

Niall: Yeah! They're calling 2013 the "year of the comets."

Laura: Yeah. And I mean, there were years of comets back then too, and they were followed by extremely unpleasant events.

Joe: Yeah, like pustules? (laughter)

Niall: Oh no, Joe....

Laura: Stop using that word!

Joe: What's the association between pustules and comets?

Laura: Because plagues come with comets!

Joe: You mean microbes?

Laura: It's an historical fact!

Joe: It's not shaping up as a really pretty picture here. You just said that we're losing our protection at a very dangerous period here...

Niall: Shields down!

Laura: Shields are down...

Joe: ...when the Klingons are coming?

Laura: Kind of something like that, yeah.

Joe: Who's doing that? I mean, that doesn't sound very fair. I mean, shouldn't our shields be up?

Laura: You know, I'm working on developing some ideas about that based on information theory. And you're just going to have to wait for the next volume for that. I've got most of it all written and it's all put together, but you're gonna have to wait for the next volume.

Joe: Has it got anything to do with human beings?

Laura: It has a lot to do with human beings because information theory...human beings are information capacitors, When there are six, seven billion of us on the planet and we're not capacitating properly....

Joe: Then our shields are down.

Laura: Yeah, it basically brings the shields of the planet down and makes us very vulnerable. That's also something that shows up in the historical record. The corruption of Rome, the events that were going on in Rome, were exactly identical for their time. Consider this was a very, a very commercial and active society. They had manufacturing plants, they mass-produced goods, they shipped them all over the known world at the time. This was not just a bunch of guys running around in armor. They were quite advanced for their time. But their corruption...you know, I swear, and this is not the only period that preceded a dark age that has these markers, these signals. Because it seems like whenever human beings get a certain way, begin to behave a certain way, when their rulers, their kings and so forth, their elite begin to behave a certain way, and the human beings themselves do not take care of things, do not...

Joe: Stand against it.

Laura: ...stand against it, they fail in their function as capacitors. The shields fall, and boom! You have to understand that after the fall of Rome, Europe did not recover, or begin to recover, begin to recover for three...hundred...years.

Niall: The Dark Ages.

Laura: The Dark Ages. And it's really dark. I have even discovered, I think, that a couple of things that are claimed to have been written during that time probably weren't, because I've discovered some falsification of the history that's going to be presented either in the next volume or the one after that. But...

Niall: They were probably written much later, in fact.

Laura: Well anyway, let me give you....can I, can I just give you a few more of these examples?

Joe: Go on then!

Niall: Go for it.

Laura: Okay. 447. Remember the last one we talked about was 365? And that was the big tsunami with the thunderbolts, okay? So now we're in 447, we're almost a hundred years later, okay? 'Cause like I said, these things take place over time. We've been in this process for a while, and I would even suggest that because of the rapidity of the way things develop in our civilization, whatever happens this time is going to be much bigger and much faster than it happened then. Because, I mean, you've got to realize back then, if you wanted to send a message from Rome to say, Britain, it could take a really, really long time. Now we can do it in a nanosecond, see. So anyway, what he says here, and this is from the Ecclesiastical History of Evagrius Scholasticus. And he says:

"At this period the much-reported war was stirred up by Attila, the King of the Scythians. (Laura: He didn't call him the Huns, because there was really kind of a big dispute, were the Huns Scythians, or vice versa) Priscus recorded comprehensively and with exceptional learning, narrating with great elegance, how he campaigned against both eastern and western regions, which cities and how many he captured and destroyed, and after how many achievements, he departed this world.

Now, while the same Theodosius was wielding the scepters, a very great, extraordinary earthquake, one that surpassed its predecessors, occurred throughout the whole habited world, (Laura: so to speak), with the result that many of the towers of the royal city were laid flat, and the so-called "Long Wall" of the Chersonese collapsed. The earth gaped, and many villages sank into it. Again, there were many, indeed, innumerable misfortunes, both on land and at sea.

And whereas some springs were rendered dry, elsewhere a quantity of water was sent up, where there was none previously. Entire trees were upturned, roots and all, and numerous mounds were instantly turned into mountains. The sea hurled up corpses of fish, and many of the islands in it were swamped. Again, sea-going ships were seen on dry land when the waters retreated back. Much of Bithynia (Laura: which is in northern Anatolia, which is northern Turkey today) and the Hellespont and both Phrygias suffered. The disaster gripped the earth for a time, not continuing so violently as at the beginning, but gradually weakening until it had completely ceased."

So this was a fairly severe sequence of events that was going on there. One of the translators' notes says the earthquake struck on Sunday, the 26th of January, 447, as reported in the Chronicon Paschale. Extensive damage is attested at Constantinople. It is said that the event was commemorated annually by a religious procession. The long walls mentioned are those which defended the Gallipoli peninsula, not the outer walls of Constantinople, which were constructed after this earthquake. So there's evidence that this actually took place as the chronicler described it.

455. This is...from 447 to 455, how many years? Not ten, it's eight years.

"During these times, a dearth of rainwater occurred in Phrygia and Galatia, and Cappadocia and Cilicia, so from shortage of necessities, men partook even of more harmful nourishment. Consequently, plague arose. They fell sick from the change of diet, and as their bodies became bloated from excess of inflammation, they lost their sight..."

Laura: Remember the previous plague where people lost their sight, so, you know, he's trying to explain it, because they changed their diet, but somehow, I just don't really buy that. Their bodies became bloated, they lost their sight.

"...coughing supervened and on the third day they departed life."

Laura: Now remember this is a chronicler who's trying blame this on people changing their diet.

"For the time being, it was impossible to discover a remedy for the plague, but the universal saviour, Providence, granted relief from the famine for the survivors by pouring down nourishment from the sky, in the unproductive year, as they did for the Israelites (Laura: It was called manna.). While in the following year, granting the crops be brought to fruition of their own accord."

Laura: Umm, you gotta understand that a lot of these chronicles...there was a war going on between the pagans and the Christians, and everything bad that was happening, the pagans were blaming on the Christians. The Christians were saying that they were being tried by God because of course, they didn't blame it on the pagans necessarily, or they would blame it because the pagans were persecuting the Christians. So they had a war going on, so everything that was happening was being spun one way or the other, depending on who the writer was, and that particular writer happened to be a flaming Christian and yeah, that was the Chronicon Paschale. They put a spin on it. He doesn't want anybody to think there was actually a plague being inflicted upon people.

457. We just did 455, now we've only got two years go by.

"There was a violent earthquake that shook, more or less all the inhabited earth. In this earthquake, the Phoenician city of Tripoli was completely knocked over."

Now, before we had Constantinople, now we have Tripoli being knocked over.

457-474: There was the biggest fire ever in Constantinople.

"The fire was from sea to sea. The emperor fled and stayed away for six months. Ash fell like rain from the sky and agglutinated on the ground and on the roofs as thick as a span. At that time, Tzezekis was knocked down by an earthquake. It was completely destroyed and many of its inhabitants perished. A large number of towns and villages also fell. However they were not as destroyed as Tzezekis."

Laura: A footnote; and this is from Michael the Syrian. I don't think this is even in English, but anyhow, the footnote in the French translation says that this ash was from an eruption of Vesuvius. May or may not have been.

Then we've got events in 474-475, an earthquake in Thrace.

"Many countries were destroyed. The fear came upon all those who saw the calamity and everyone thought that the end of the world was near."

491...This is getting really close you know?

"At the beginning of the reign of Anastasius, there was an eclipse of the sun. There were also many grasshoppers."

498...

"Locusts came on the country and destroyed everything. In the same year, there was a violent and mighty earthquake. Nicopolis was destroyed except for the church and the bishop's house."

Laura: Buried all the inhabitants except for the church and the bishop's house, yeah, how likely do you think that is?

"In the same year, a sign, like a spear, appeared in the sky. And again on the very same day of the appearance of the sign and of the earthquake,"

Laura: Now remember the sign and the earthquake? Same day.

"...the warm springs of Abarne stopped flowing for three days, and then returned to flow as previously. Also, the river Euphrates stopped its flow on the same day. The great Temple of Arsamosata, on the day of the gathering, fell as a result of the earthquake."

At that time, there was an earthquake and the hotspring of Abarne dried out. So we have another version from the chronicles.

Then there's the year 500. "The sun darkened for eight hours." Eight hours. This was not an eclipse.

"The earth was covered by dust as if ash or brimstone were scattered over it. And on the same day another sign appeared in the Wall of Edessa. There was a breach in the wall, south of the great gate, the stones from that place being scattered to a considerable distance. In the same year in November, three signs appeared in the sky in the middle of the day. In the same year, in the month of January, another sign appeared in the sky in the southwestern corner resembling a spear, which some people called the 'broom of perdition.' Others called it the 'spear of war'."

501 - "There was famine, an attack of locusts, severe plague"

502 - "A great earthquake, Ptolemaist, Tyron and Sidon were overthrown. The synagogue of the Jews was ruined and fell, and in the same night of the earthquake, which took place on the 22nd of the month of August, at the dawn of Friday, a sign like a burning fire appeared in the northern quarter of the sky."

Uhhh. That's....

Joe: So what are you trying to say, Laura?

Laura: Well, I've got fifty pages of this stuff.

Joe: Fifty more pages that make it pretty clear that...

Laura: It got worse and more and more frequent, to the point, and then of course, at a certain point, the Plague of Justinian came, which took out probably 80% of the population.

Niall: Of Europe? Or of the Roman Empire?

Laura: Of the Roman Empire, yeah. So I would say that the big killer, I mean by the time, after 540 to 542, nobody hears anything at all from the western Empire. It just goes silent. It's not even mentioned again. Not even mentioned again. Nobody even...I mean it's like everybody is, of all these chronicles they're studiously ignoring the existence of the entire, what amounts to the entire country of France and Great Britain and Spain...

Joe: Italy.

Laura: Yeah. What a lot of people don't know is that, up until the nineteenth century, Rome was covered under something like nine meters of mud. Rome had to be excavated.

Joe: Um-hmm

Laura: And the same was true of the palace of Diocletian in Croatia, the Temple of Olympia in Greece. These places were covered. There's something really, really...

Joe: So when reading these historical accounts though, these cataclysmic events, or buildup to a major cataclysm...

Laura: There're a lot of things about weather in there. It talks about in the midst of January, it got very warm and the trees were blooming and then suddenly it froze again and everything was killed. Or in the middle of the summer, there was snow. Sounds familiar?

Joe: Yeah, there's a lot of that.

Laura: And I have collected all of these kinds of things together in here. And some of them I've had to have translated, and some of them have come from really obscure books, but I'm basically making it available to the reading public.

Joe: So, reading these historical accounts, you're pretty convinced that what was happening then...

Laura: Is happening now.

Joe: ...is very similar to what's happening now. Except perhaps maybe now it's in a more of a contracted form.

Laura: Yeah, I think it's more contracted now, and I also think that due to the fact that comets do fragment, and since much of what's happening is because we're passing through the stream of the degraded giant comet that Victor Clube describes. Back during the time of the collapse of Rome, the bodies that occupied this stream were far larger than they are now. They have continued over these...over these what, two millennia well, fifteen hundred years at least, they have continued to degrade. There's still a lot there, and there're still boulder-sized pieces, house-sized pieces, there's still some pretty big pieces, and we just got one of them the other day. But during the time when Rome was collapsing, the stream was probably...it was more concentrated, it was...pieces were more intact. They weren't quite so degraded. There wasn't so much dust. I think the dust has a lot to do with some of the weather problems we're having on the planet, the comet dust from this stream.

So, basically overall, you read through this material, you read about the weather, the lack of rain, alternating with floods, alternating with cold, alternating with heat, earthquakes, fireballs, fireballs, fireballs, comets, comets, comets, thunderbolts, etc., etc. So it was a pretty active time, and it was fairly identical to what we are experiencing now, yeah.

Joe: Okay. We have a call here. We're going to take this call. Hi caller, what's your name?

Caller: How are you doing Joe, this is Brian.

Joe: Hi, Brian. Where are you calling from?

Brian: I'm calling from Maryland.

Joe: Maryland, okay.

Niall: Welcome to the show.

Brian: Yeah, thank you. My question is, in the context of what you guys are saying about cosmic events, in fact, in human history...Robert Schoch did a talk on the EU 2012, talking about the Rongorongo script. He drew a parallel between the script itself, and plasma formations....

Laura: Oh yeah.

Brian: ...and archeologists or linguist are saying...I think its archeologists are saying that is an actual language.

Laura: Uhh, archeologists would say that.

Brian: So, I'm wondering, I mean, if you take that as an assumption...

Joe: Brian, can I interrupt you there and just ask you to turn down your speakers?

Niall: Yeah, we're getting some feedback here, so if you turn off your speakers, we should be able to hear you clearly.

Laura: Okay, that's good.

Brian: All right.

Laura: Go ahead.

Brian: If you take that as an assumption, then that would mean that, and it's an assumption though.

Laura: Yeah, sure.

Brian: The very language itself comes; our very language formation has been guided by the cosmos itself.

Laura: I would have to kind of agree with you. I think yeah, it's a good chance that there's some definite influence.

Brian: All right. I'll have to develop my thinking on that, so...

Laura: Well, let me just tell you quick a little story about archeologists, and it's in a book called, I think it's called, um, ... oh geeze, can't even remember. But anyhow, it's by a geologist, and he was attending a conference with a bunch of archeologists, and they were showing him where they were digging. He says, "Look at that. That's the evidence of an earthquake, and it happened....", and he was able to tell them when it happened, that it happened between some part of their dig and some other part. And they were so shocked, and so rejecting of this idea, because archeologists don't like to talk about any kind of cataclysmic events affecting any of the processes of history. Historians also don't like it.

One of the reasons being is that there was a really famous book written by a French archeologist....oh, gah, why can't I say his name? But anyway, he collected this massive amount of evidence that many of the processes of history were affected by cataclysms. And what they told him was, "that couldn't happen because the earthquake you're talking about would have had to be so big that it's just completely unimaginable." Well, of course he couldn't understand what... all he was seeing was that there were earthquakes in place, after place, after place. He was talking about the collapse of the Bronze Age and he couldn't understand it himself. He was just presenting the evidence. Anyhow, they basically drove him out of town. You know, ruined his career, destroyed him. Archeologists took a lesson from this, and ever since, they and historians have basically denied these kinds of events in their work. So they're completely hampered. They're unable to explain what they see and what they deal with, as a matter of their profession, because they are so afraid of being ridiculed.

Joe: All right Brian thanks for your call. Thanks for listening.

Brian: Bye.

Laura: Read on too! Keep on.

Joe: Okay. Hang on we've got another call here.

Niall: Oh yeah? Okay

Joe: Hi caller, what's your name and what's your question?

Caller: Hi, my name is Betsy.

Joe: Hi, Betsy.

Betsy: How are you?

Joe: We're pretty good. Are you good?

Betsy: I'm good. I'm sitting here listening here to your show.

Laura: How you doing, honey-child?

Betsy: I'm sorry?

Laura: I said, how you doing honey-child? (laughter)

Betsy: I'm doing great! All this talk about comets and earthquakes bringing back memories!

Laura: Yeah?

Betsy: Yeah, this region we're in here, back in the beginning of the 1800s, I'm sure you know this Laura, 'cause you do all the research, but, we had the New Madrid earthquake...

Laura: Absolutely!

Betsy: ...which created Reelfoot Park and just tremendous earthquakes, and they were also accompanied by a comet. I think they called it Tecumseh's comet.

Laura: Uh-huh.

Betsy: And at the exact same time, this huge comet, which evidently comes around every 3,000 years or so, they have these New Madrid earthquakes, which according to people here, were so forceful they blotted out the sky, the Mississippi supposedly ran backwards...

Laura: Yeah, it did.

Betsy: ...for like three days to make Reelfoot Lake, and you can still...I go to Reelfoot Park every now and again for events, and you can still see the effects of it. So this isn't the first time we've been this route.

Laura: No, and it's a...the difficult thing is, is to try to place a marker at the beginning or the end of something, because it goes on, really, all the time. It's just that there are certain periods that are particularly intense. I mean, I've read some work that suggest that the Great Chicago Fire was caused by comet fragment impacts, setting things on fire, that there were just some really extraordinary and unusual things about that.

Betsy: Really? You mean that cow got a bum rap?

Laura: Yeah, the cow got a bum rap! Mrs. O'Leary did too.

Betsy: Figures!

Laura: So, the only thing that we can say at this particular point in time is the intensity, the increasing intensity and you know, I suspect that there's going to be another one of these Russian events, only it probably won't be in Russia next time. And it might be bigger and it, you know, we would hope that it would happen in some area that's not populated or....I'm not gonna say (laughter)...I'm not gonna say where I wish it would happen! You all can guess! (laughter)

Joe: I'm just wondering if comets or meteorites have a surgical strike capability. You know, pin-point accuracy, 'cause Capitol Hill would...

Betsy: I wonder if they're conscious.

Joe: Yeah! Capitol Hill would work for me, you know. Just in a localized...

Betsy: Maybe they can aim themselves!

Niall: Yeah!

Laura: Maybe they're attracted to certain personalities. I did read about one guy who got hit eight times was it? Oh, eight times by lightening. But there was this guy in Turkey who got three or four meteorites.

Niall: It was a guy in Serbia who says his house has been hit on six separate occasions by meteorites.

Betsy: Seriously? Wow.

Laura: That's just so freaking bizarre!

Niall: He's freaking out, and he reckons there's conscious direction. He said 'the aliens are doing it to me."

Joe: He needs to move!

Laura: Yeah. Seriously!

Betsy: I would!

Joe: Yup.

Laura: Yeah.

Betsy: It's interesting too, that during the New Madrid earthquakes and that comet, we were also at war. Of course, America is always at war, so.

Laura: Oh yeah!

Betsy: That would be kind of hard to...

Laura: When are we ever not at war?

Betsy: That's true. It would be easier to find a time, you know, harder to find a time when we weren't at war.

Joe: Yeah.

Laura: There's one book that I just read recently where they compared the assassination of Julius Caesar to the American Civil War. So if we're not only compressing our time, but we're also relating events...or to the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, sorry...we've been well on the path for a couple hundred years now. And if the time is foreshortened because of the changes in the system, we could be looking at some fairly interesting things this year, next year, next few years, whatever.

Betsy: We're even getting tornados in these mountains and that's unheard of in anybody's lifetime.

Laura: Yeah, North Carolina never got tornados. Mountains don't get tornados usually, and you don't have tornados in wintertime. It's just weird.

Betsy: Yeah, we had a tornado in the Appalachia in January. That's not normal.

Laura: No. That's not normal.

Betsy: Well, anyway, just thank you for the wonderful job you all are doing!

Laura: Are we coming through loud and clear? We've been really doing some work on our sound systems here, trying to make it so that we don't have the audio problems we've had before.

Betsy: Yes you are. Very much so.

Joe: Okay, good to know. Excellent.

Betsy: Sounds great. You can hear all of you.

Laura: Okay, good job!

Joe: Thanks for calling.

Laura: Thanks for calling, Betsy.

Betsy: Thanks a lot you all.

Everyone: Bye-bye.

Joe: We've got a message here from a person. I presume it's a person, called Erratic Patterns. He or she says, "I'm thinking about the underground bases in the light of all these signs of cometary activity in the form of fireballs and so on. Is it possible that many of the alleged bases of the military-industrial complex", oops.....

Laura: It just broke off?

Joe: It went away....

Laura: It went away?

Joe: No, hang on.....

Laura: God, that reminds me of a line from a movie. "It went away."

Niall: I think I can see where he's going here...

Joe: Wait, no, hang on. "Is it possible that the many of these alleged bases of the military-industrial complex, underground bases, and in other countries, are related to a sort of deliberate refuge? At least..." Basically what he's asking is deliberate refuge in the time-frame of Tunguska?

Laura: Uh, well....

Joe: At that time the idea of cometary impacts and stuff came front and center for the elite of this world and that they....

Laura: There are suggestions in the historical record that that's true. I mean, there clearly are some massive underground facilities in various places, and I think we talked about that a little bit in the last show when we were talking about that movie 2012, about all the elite having some kind of ark to get on, and they had to pay billions of dollars for their place, and everybody else was just screwed. But, I'm not sure that they really have their heads screwed on straight, because they've got this seed vault in Svalbard, Sweden, which will probably be covered by six miles of ice, if things hold true to form. And I'm not sure that they've taken into account plague, which could very well take.... you know, one little bit of plague down in one of their little underground facilities and they're all dead, and there nobody will ever find them, which will make a nice little mausoleum.

Joe: Um-hmm. As a follow-up, he just says, "If that's the case, what else can normal people like us, facing such a deluge of fire, do about it?"

Laura: Well, let me make this perfectly clear.

Joe: Makin' bacon?

Laura: (laughing) Yeah. We just saw the effects of one of these events. We know about Tunguska. We're talking about something that's highly localized, it could be bigger and worse, but it will still be localized. It's not like the whole planet...that's what I was saying; it's not the end of the world. When you look at what happened to Rome, my suggestion is that based on the evidence that most of the people died because of plague, not so much because of comets. But the comets probably brought the conditions you know, comets or comet dust that brought the conditions. They stressed the environment, dust veil events, changes in the climate because that was very marked during that time. Those kinds of things can bring on food shortages. Food shortages of course mean that people are more vulnerable to disease. One of the big things about...I mean, if you don't want to think that comets bring viruses themselves, which is one of the favourite theories of several very eminent scientists, then at least think of the fact that hunger and crowded living conditions are great breeding grounds for the mutation of viruses. So we're looking at...

Joe: And what can diet do to help?

Laura: Well the thing that we've been...one of the main things about the collapse of Rome was that, first of all, it was noted that the poor died first. And the poor lived basically on little more than bread and water or maybe a few vegetables, a few boiled vegetables. The one group of people that survived better than any other group, and the reason why Europe took shape the way it did after things began to recover, were the Germans. The Germans had a much better survival rate, and the main thing that we can note about them is what Caesar wrote, which was that their diet consisted almost entirely of meat. There's also a story of the survival of a tribe of Arabs, thanks to the efforts of the grandfather of Mohammed, who obtained meat to give to the people. They lived on broth, on a meat broth along with...he got some grain for them to have with their meat broth, but they lived mainly on broth with bread. And the majority of the deaths as far as I can see, were Italy and all of what's considered to be modern day France and Spain, and their primary diet was grains and vegetables. So, you can draw your own conclusions, but from where I sit, the historical record is loud and clear that the people who eat meat primarily, survived, and the vegetable and bread eaters died like, you know, died like a plague.

Niall: So the meat-eaters had a more robust immune system, perhaps, to fend off....

Laura: Well, I can't make a determination about that, it's just basically, the fact is that the meat-eaters survived, and the vegetarian, or vegetable-eating, grain-eating people died, in massive, massive numbers. So the few pockets that survived, pockets of survival in France and Spain, there were pockets who were probably meat eaters.

Joe: Right, and even though that kind of has a relevance for today with....we've been talking about these flood and droughts causing a decreased crop yield in recent years and the price of food going up. Of course, that includes the price of meat. But if people were to transition to a kind of a meat-based diet, you actually end up spending a lot less on your food because...

Laura: You eat less.

Joe: Well yeah, because even though the price has gone up, you're eating less but you're not buying this cornucopia of grain-based and carb-based products that cost much more overall than just what would be a few pieces of meat, or a limited amount of meat every day, and leave out all the fancy cereals and...

Laura: You...you were deliberately bringing this around to bacon. I knew it! I knew it!

Joe: I'm just saying this is why saturated fat...

Niall: He warned us!

Joe: This is why saturated fat is where it's at, as the song says, you know. And why people need to be making bacon, or at least eating bacon and other meat products, because as Laura just said, there's a lot of historical evidence that people who ate meat in times of hardship survived a whole lot better than other people.

Laura: It's even proposed that the reason that the Arab civilization arose and was able to conquer so much of the western world at the time they did, was because they survived better, because they were eating goats and camels and whatever. They were eating... in this legend, it particularly, it specifically says "broth." So my experience has been, as a confirmed meat eater, who eats almost no vegetables ever, I mean, those things are evil, you know, I eat once, maybe twice a day. And I eat a whole lot less. So you can take a piece of meat and some bones and make a big pot of soup, a nice meaty soup. And if you want it to thicken it with something, thicken it with some potato starch or whatever.

Anna: And fat is very important.

Laura: And have lots of fat, because if you have plenty of fat going in, you're not hungry, you don't eat as much and...

Joe: And that will feed a lot, and nourish a lot more people than trying to feed them all a bunch of carbs that really don't nourish them in the same way and they need more of them.

Laura: Yeah. Well carbs cause cancer, they feed cancer, they cause...

Joe: They're basically sugar.

Laura: Yeah, and they're very bad on the colon.

Joe: Um-hm.

Niall: The funny thing is...

Joe: Well, that is....

Niall: ...during times of an ice age, this is largely the diet people would have had to have eaten.

Laura: Yeah it was not only the diet that they were eating during ice ages; it was the diet that we made most of our evolutionary leaps on. Cooking food and eating meat is what made us human. You know I mean, they keep talking about "oh, we should eat like our close relatives, chimpanzees and gorillas, they're all vegetarians." Well there're still chimpanzees and gorillas, may I point out!

Joe: Yeah I just heard a collective gasp of horror from a bunch of vegetarians listening in, at what you just said.

Laura: You think?

Joe: Yeah, that it's all about eating meat and that we evolved eating meat, and evolutionarily speaking, we made our leaps into humans because we were eating meat.

Laura: Yeah, well it's true!

Joe: Well, Laura, you can't just tell the truth like that. I mean, people will get shocked!

Laura: Well, I'm sorry!

Joe: All right. They'll forgive you.

Laura: All right.

Joe: So, yes that's one of the reasons I was bringing that up also, was because a lot of people are writing and saying "what can we do?" and stuff, and one of the things people can do, if we're looking at price...

Laura: You can change your diet! Buy a canner. Can meat!

Joe: Well, that's the other thing, it's not just a matter of changing over to a meat-based diet, and reducing your carbs, but also taking into consideration the fact that there might be a food shortage, including meat and stuff, and preparing for that eventuality. There's nothing...you're not going to lose anything by, like you just said, canning meat and putting some away, because you're going to use it anyway.

Laura: Right!

Niall: It's almost like the environment is saying you have adapt, because there aren't going to be vegetables and grains available for you.

Joe: Um-hm.

Niall: I mean we're seeing food rise...food prices skyrocket everywhere as a result of crop failures, which is a result of environmental stress brought on by...

Joe: Climate change brought on by what we've just said for most of this show.

Niall: Yeah.

Joe: And one of the interesting things that just occurred to me, was that when people, the average person, when you bring up these weird events, weird weather, extremes of cold and heat and stuff. They look at them in isolation and say well...if it's wintertime, they say, 'Well it's wintertime, it's meant to be cold. There's meant to be a lot of snow." If it's summertime, "Well, we've had heat waves before." So they explain it away by saying "It's all happened before." In a strange way they're right. But, it's happened before, all of these things together, fifteen hundred years ago, like you've just been saying Laura, and it pointed to something much more serious than what they think, or what they understand. So they're right in looking at it from the point of view of, yes, it's happened before, but you don't look at yet in that sense, and dismiss it. You look at it when in the context of all of these things happening together in such...in such a few years and what it actually meant. How it ended the last time or what happened as a result of the last time.

Laura: Well, I mean... you know. It just makes you want to go biblical. You know, Matthew 24.

Joe: Testify!

Laura: (laughing) Yeah! You know, there will be famines, and plagues, and pestilence, and earthquakes in place after place, and wars and rumours of wars, and signs in the heavens, and the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed her light, and I'm just doing this off the top of my head, so forgive me if it's not all entirely accurate.

Joe: Um-hmm.

Laura: And then you'll see the sign of the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven in great glory and brilliancy and splendor. Sounds like a comet to me!

(All laughing)

Niall: The funny thing is, it wasn't so much divine inspiration that got those words down on paper, it was because...

Neil & Laura: It was because they experienced it!

Joe: Yeah!

Laura: Exactly!

Niall: Been there, done that.

Laura: Yeah, they were talking about it because there were also some events...there's a really strong suggestion that the destruction of Jerusalem wasn't actually accomplished by the Roman army, although they were there, but that there was a little cosmic blast going on. There're a lot of places that were receiving cosmic blasts during that time. You know, it's just killing me, because I can't read all of these things, because there's so many of them. It's just goes on, and on, and on, my god!

Joe: It will all be in the book, so...

Laura: And then there was the 536 dust veil event. Do you realize that the sun hardly shone for an entire freaking year? That there was...there was so much dust in the atmosphere from some terrible event, somewhere, they didn't know where it happened, because they didn't see it, but they got the dust; a dust veil. And it was so thick that the moon...the sun looked like the moon all day long for an entire year. There were no crops, nothing grew you know, people were wandering around and then four years later, boom, plague.

Niall: It must be so terrifying and the difference now, if there is one, is that we can know, or at least have some idea...

Laura: Globally...

Niall: ...about why these things take place.

Laura: Yeah, if we were to...

Niall: Knowledge can mitigate the terror and help to deal with...

Laura: Well it can mitigate that terror for people if they get up to speed pretty quick, but the problem is, is the authorities don't really want people to have that kind of knowledge because, the thing is, whenever things start happening that are basically out of human control....humans are very egotistical creatures. And they think that they should be able to control anything. So when things start happening that are out of their control, and their constituted authorities are not able to protect them, and remember these constituted authorities are constituted for the express purpose of protecting them. Well, if there's something that they can't protect them from, people begin to look at them and say, "Wait a minute. You're not protecting us. Maybe you're the cause of this, because there's a really, really deep instinct inside all human beings, or well most of them anyway, kind of like a religious impulse that the cosmos is either friendly towards us, or not, based on our behaviour. If things are getting yucky out there, and the authorities are not able to do anything about it, then people tend to think that the authorities are to blame for this affliction that comes upon the earth.

Joe: As we discussed in last week's show, that may well be the case.

Laura: It may well be the case. Like I said, human beings are capacitors. If they're suffering, and they're suffering under a regime that advocates torture and drone attacks and violation of human rights, and that sort of thing. That is the very thing that, in the time of Rome, appears to me, to have attracted its destruction, and I don't mean destruction by some other country or by terrorists or whatever, because they were all talking about terrorists then, and they were all talking about assassins, they had the Catiline conspiracy, blah, ba-blah, ba-blah, and they had fifty years of warring and going on back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, and then BOOM! They're in the middle of a freaking war when all this stuff starts happening, and then, silence. Silence! The whole western empire disappeared, and then the eastern empire continued on probably for maybe another...another hundred years or less, actually much less. But, it was at a greatly reduced level. The only thing you hear about is what was really going on in Constantinople, and it's like the rest of the world had ceased to exist.

Joe: Um-hmm.

Laura: So, they brought it on themselves in my opinion, but that's just my opinion. I think that, you know, if people really, really wanted to do something about things like that, they wanted to stop it, or they wanted to be prepared, that's something to think about. Are our leaders are leading us over the cliff?

Joe: And on that note, I think we're gonna end it, 'cause we have reached our two-hour time mark, and I think we've done a fairly good job of talking at least, about this. We may not have produced many answers, but we've certainly discussed it and thrown around a few ideas. If anybody has any questions, they...

Laura: I want to read one more.

Joe: Ohhh.....

Laura: Yeah.

Joe: All right. This can be a final one.

Niall: A closing statement.

Joe: A closing statement from...

Laura: 518. Fifteen years or thereabouts or eighteen years before the dust veil event.

"A star appeared in the east, similar to a huge spear. The point of the spear was turned downwards. It revolved in a frightening way, and long rays were seen by everyone to come out of it. It was called according to the Greeks, a comet. Fear overwhelmed everybody who saw how awfully it arose, looked, and shone, and how it revolved and altered in a threatening fashion, so that many people would talk about many things they thought to be imminent in the future, a chastisement, war and perdition, all of it because of the terrible appearance of the star. Nor was there any delay in these things. Many afflictions followed quickly, along with war, causing much bloodshed. Also what is most grievous and bitter, it soon brought about turmoil, dissention, disagreement, persecutions, killings and other evils."

And that's from the Zuckman chronicle.

Joe: And on that note, we will leave it for this week. Thanks to all of our listeners and all of our callers. We'll be back again next Sunday with another show. I hope you can join us.

Joe: And that's it. Over and out!

Niall: Keep your eyes on the sky.

Laura: That's a big 10-4 rubber ducky!