The meteorite that exploded over Chelyabinsk, Russia, Friday 15th Feb. 2013. Almost 1,000 people were injured and many buildings damaged.
This week hosts Joe and Niall sat down with Jason Martin and Laura Knight-Jadczyk to discuss this freak event.
But was it really a freak event, a 'coincidence', as NASA reassured us? If they didn't see this one coming, will they see others coming? In fact, there is strong evidence that, over the course of human history, repeated cometary bombardment from space has wiped the slate clean on our little planet. These cleansing events were naturally terrifying for people who lived through them. In time, the progenitors of those who survived rebuilt civilizations anew and eventually the horrors of the past were forgotten.
Running Time: 02:14:00
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Increased fireball sightings in recent years (among other tell-tale signs), indicate that we have now entered another period of potential cosmic catastrophe. We are also living in a time when an endless 'War on Terror' is being waged - ostensibly to 'protect our freedoms' and Western civilization from evil-doers 'over there'. The result has been a significant increase in real - actual and felt - terror that is evidenced in the form of social hysteria.
© SOTT.netSource data available here: www.amsmeteors.org/fireball_event/2012/
But what if the real threat has always been "out there" rather than "over there" in some impoverished country? Will our leaders and authorities be able to keep us safe from a cosmic threat? Do they even know about it?
This week we discussed the real purpose of 'protecting people' by fighting the 'war on terror' and whether or not the real source of our deepest fears have anything to do with a threat from space that our leaders would rather keep under wraps.
Here's the transcript:
Niall:There is strong evidence that, over the course of human history, repeated cometary bombardment from space has wiped the slate clean on our little planet. These cleansing events were naturally terrifying the people who lived through them. In time the progenitors of those who survive rebuild civilizations anew and eventually the horrors of the past were forgotten.
Increased fireball sightings in recent years, among other telltale signs, indicate that we have now entered another period of potential cosmic catastrophe. We are also living in a time when an endless war on terror has been waged, ostensibly, to protect our freedoms and Western civilization from evildoers over there. The result has been a significant increase in real, actual, and veiled terror and its evidence is in the form of social hysteria. Not a day goes by without a news report indicating that increasing hysteria has taken ahold of people; from mass panic in schools, because fifth graders are caught playing with toy paper guns, to fears that a zombie apocalypse is upon us. People are reacting in increasingly bizarre and paranoid ways, but what if the real threat has always been from 'out there' rather than 'over there?' Will our leaders and authorities be able to keep us safe from the cosmic threat? Do they even know about it?
This week we will be discussing the real purpose of protecting people, by so-called fighting terror abroad or at home. And whether or not the real source of our deepest fears have anything to do with threats from space that our leaders would rather keep under-wraps.
Hi I'm Niall Bradley. Tonight I'm joined by Joe Quinn.
Joe: Hi
Niall:And we are very lucky to have Laura Knight-Jadczyk with us and Jason Martin. Welcome guys.
Laura: Hi! Hi! Hi!
Jason: Hi.
Joe: As Niall just mentioned this week's show is going to deal with a few different topics, but before we get into the topics for this week's show we're going to deal a little bit with the topics we should've talked about last week but were unable to because we had quote un-quote technical difficulties. We don't exactly know the source of them, but we had technical difficulties and we couldn't broadcast last week, so last week's show was basically about the hystericization or hysterical nature of society in general but perhaps, in particular, American society, and on that topic, over the past few weeks we've seen, most notably in schools and pertaining to school children, a lot of hysteria. And it seems that this hysteria is a product of, or it's directly related to, the Sandy Hook massacre of December 14th 2012, just a couple of months ago.
Laura: Yeah, let me interrupt here. I have in front of me two or three little articles that came out last week and this was all prior to the recent meteor explosion in Russia. It was, you know, people were already in something of a state. So, let me share some of this with you. Here we've got one item called "Kids with Toy Guns" it's from the Blaze and it was 24 January 2013.
A Philadelphia fifth grader said she was scolded by a school administrator and even searched in front of her entire class, all because she pulled out a paper gun. Melody Valentin's father, or her grandfather, had made her the gun the day before. The gun was actually a square piece of paper with the corner torn out of it to make 'L' shaped. She stuck it in her pocket and forgot about it. When she went to throw it in the trashcan in class, another student spotted it and called her out.
A school administrator was summoned she was reprimanded for having a piece of paper. She said "he yelled at me and said I shouldn't have brought the gun to school, and I kept telling him 'It's a paper gun!', but he wouldn't listen." The administrator then threatened to have her arrested while other students called her a murderer.
Joe: Wow.
Jason: Wow
Niall:It's not a gun, it's a paper gun, that's not even, it's actually just a piece of paper.
Jason: Yeah I actually saw a ...
Joe: It couldn't even be described as a gun.
Jason: Literally, a piece of paper.
Laura: Ah, that's not all, just hang on, a few days later, a five year old boy in Massachusetts may be suspended after he built a toy gun out of Legos during an after school program. His parents received a letter that said the boy has received his first written warning for using toys inappropriately and that upon a second warning he will be suspended from the program for two weeks. This is a five year old boy for god sakes!
Joe: On a third warning he is going be sent to Gitmo.
All: [Chuckle]
Laura: Ok, same day. A Bronx school building was temporarily locked down after a twelve year old boy was overheard talking to a classmate about his toy gun, a bright colored Nerf gun that shoots harmless foam darts.
Joe: Hang on a minute, a young boy talking about a toy gun, there's something wrong there.
Laura: He was overheard talking to a classmate.
Joe: Kids don't do that.
Jason: No they don't, it's totally inappropriate. I think we need to take these kids out and execute them immediately and that is the only solution to this problem.
Laura: [Laughter]
Joe: Jason thank you for the conservative stance there.
All: [Laughter]
Laura: School officials were notified and afterward the school principle immediately called for a total freaking lockdown of the school. He then broadcast a pre-established code word over the campus P.A. system telling... let me turn the page here...everyone to hide. "I was in the cafeteria eating and then they gave out the secret code for an intruder in the building" said 10 year old Gwendolyn Garner, whose mother prevented her from revealing the secret word, oh dear god.
All: [Laughter]
Laura: "Everybody had to go under the table and everybody had to make a plan for what we had to do if the intruder came into the cafeteria. I mean come on people, what is happening here? These are adult people who are freaking terrifying little children. They are deliberately and intentionally traumatizing their psyche.
Joe: They've terrified themselves, the adults.
Laura: Are they really terrified themselves?
Joe: Or they're hystericized.
Laura: If they are that terrified they have no business being in authoritative positions in a school system.
Joe: Well, of course yeah, but how many of these stories have there been over the past few weeks?
Niall:I counted 8 or 9.
Joe: 8 or 9, yeah.
Niall:Within the space of a week.
Joe: Yeah, well there is one actually just from a few days ago, it hasn't finished yet, you know.
Jason: Well I read one, right, and this is the crazy thing, right? I read one of these stories, I don't remember which one it was, but here is what happened, so they had like called the police and the police had come right, and...
Joe: Yeah.
Jason: ...the reporter was interviewing a police representative, right, and she was quoted as saying "we take these problems very seriously, if there is a report of a gun in the school we want to go and investigate whether or not it's a real gun or a toy gun and whether or not that deserves to be punished" or, something like that, right, as if like having a toy gun, I mean it doesn't matter what you do with a toy gun. It's a toy gun, you know, I mean...
Joe: Yeah.
Jason: ...in the end, that's kind of the end of it, it's a toy, you know. I mean it doesn't matter if the kid has it in his belt and is waving it around. I mean you can punish him within the rules of the school, by saying "hey you know you can't be flagging around your toys like that", that's ok, but the police have nothing to say what-so-ever. It doesn't matter if the kid took the toy gun out pointed it at someone's head and said " I'm going to kill you", that's not a police matter that's totally a school matter and the school should say "ok, well you're not allowed to do that", that's ok.
Joe: Yeah.
Jason: But the police have no say in it.
Laura: Well listen to what this little girl is saying, she said, "me and my best friend, we were just thinking, what would our parents do if we got killed?" Perry Frasier, who was in 5th grade, was eating breakfast when he heard the code word and knew to hide because he and his classmates had practiced, "but this wasn't a drill," Perry said, "everybody was hiding under the table, all the girls were crying, our teacher was scared." Jaclyn William, whose two children attend the school, received a panicked phone call from her 9 year old daughter after she wasn't allowed into the facility. She [the daughter] called home and said "the school was locked down, nobody knew what was happening." I got worried." Well, surprise, surprise. She got worried.
Joe: Well, on the one hand you can maybe understand this, as we just mentioned earlier on about what with it coming on the heels of Sandy Hook and the school shootings and stuff but this, these are kids, these are small children at the school, not somebody coming into the school with a gun, but...
Laura: Exactly!
Joe: ...even then, it's not just about guns because there was an incident from the 14th of February, just a few days ago. And the report is titled "Student with folding shovel prompts school lockdown." A student carrying a folding, military-style shovel prompted police action at Heritage Middle School, Thursday. The school was put into lockdown at around 9 am, that's when authorities received a report of an armed suspect in the school, located at blah blah blah. Meridian police weren't initially sure what type of weapon the suspect was carrying, however, Deputy Chief Tracy blah blah blah, said "officers eventually located the male teen and determined that the shovel was being used as a prop for class." After further investigation police learned that the shovel actually belonged to a teacher who had asked an 8th grade student to grab it from their car. The teacher planned to use it as part of a classroom discussion on World War II.
Laura: And they locked the school down?
Joe: The school was in lock down for approximately two hours. Classes resumed after the lockdown, however, and concerned parents were allowed to pick up their children. They don't plan to charge the student with any crime, which is good, but...
Jason: That is nice...
Joe: But he, district spokesman Eric Ekson said "A student and a staff member saw a male teen walking down the school hallway." What, I mean, that right there, you've cause for suspicion. There's a kid...
Laura: Walking down the hallway.
Jason: With a shovel.
Joe: ...with something suspicious and it was reported to the school's resource officer. He was told by someone from the staff, that they saw an individual jogging out of the school then back in to the school with, what they told him was an axe. So, and it wasn't only that school lockdown, as a result of that, it was other schools in the area all...
Laura: Yeah but...
Joe: ...got the word to shut down, like schools miles away, because some guy was, some teenager, a pupil at the school, was carrying a folding shovel that belonged to a teacher. The teacher had told him to go and get from his car, he's carrying it in the school and everybody in the school crapped themselves, called the police, the police locked, the police were there within seconds, guns drawn...
Jason: What is the point of having an R.O. at a school? If he's such a pussy that he runs and says lets lockdown the school, I mean what's the point of even having a resource officer in the school?
Laura: What is the point of having a principle if he can't, if he can't make a judgment call on something like this 'toy gun rumor forcing lockdown at a Bronx school' and determine that there is no cause for alarm? Why is this man in charge of children? Why is he traumatizing these children? Well, we know the answer; they want the children to be traumatized.
Jason: Absolutely.
Laura: The parents are supposed to be traumatized. Everybody is supposed to be excited and traumatized because, guess what! That makes them easily programmable and controllable.
Joe: Absolutely, they um...
Laura: There are more of these stories. Here is a Hello Kitty bubble gun comment lands a 5 year old in school suspension. A 5 year old South Carolina girl is expelled from school, a 5 year old, a 5 year old expelled from school for bringing a plastic toy gun to class. She is such a threat that the district official sent a letter, January 15th, warning her parents that if she's caught on school grounds, she'll be subjected to criminal charges of trespassing. And, the mother says "she cannot even be in my vehicle when I go to pick up my other children." This woman has a 5 year old child that is being treated in this manner. Is that sane? No! America has gone freaking insane! They have turned into freaking half-wits!
Joe: Absolutely, and I suppose now would be a good time just to remind our listeners that you can call in if you have any stories of this nature or of a similar nature. The guest call-in number is a U.S. number, so from the U.S. it's 718-508- 9499, 001 before that for people outside of the U.S.
Laura: Joe, wait, wait. This is even the best one. We've had a paper gun, we've had a plastic gun, we've had a discussion of a gun.
Joe: A shovel.
Laura: And a shovel, and now we have an imaginary weapon.
Joe: Mm god.
Laura: A seven year old student says he's confused by getting in trouble for trying to save the world from evil. The Thompson school district officials contend that the boy broke one of the school's absolutes. Parent Mandy Watkins said "Mary Blair [name of school] principal, Valery Laura Black, called her Friday afternoon to inform her that her second grade son Alex had been suspended for throwing an imaginary grenade."
Joe: [Gasp] you know they're dangerous.
Laura: The kid, I mean that's like being threatened by an air guitar for god's sake!
Jason: The devil's music! He was playing the air guitar.
Laura: Alex did not have anything in his hand at the time and made no threats towards other people.
Joe: He did though; he had an imaginary grenade in his hand at the time.
Laura: He was going to save the earth this way, and when he threw the grenade he pretended that the box exploded, and a parent said "He's very confused." Watkins told reporter, "I'm confused as well so it makes it hard for me to enforce these rules when I don't even understand them." The rules are laid out by Mary Blair Elementary School and it lists as absolutes that are posted on the school's website and are aimed at making Mary Blair a safe environment. Let me tell you what, environments that they are making this way are not safe, these are traumatizing environments for your children, if this is going on in a school where your child is attending, I would get other parents together and I would be complaining like crazy about the trauma that they are inflicting on children. Because if it hasn't happened to your child yet, believe me, tomorrow, the next day, next week, it will. Because children are children! And they're trying to turn these children into little zombie robots.
Jason: Well, what's worse is they're treating them almost like adults. The very idea that there can be a criminal trespass warrant against a five year old is just sort of insulting to any kind of like adult intellect. Because the idea that a five year old child has a criminal trespass, was saying that you cannot trespass on a school, right! It's just mind boggling, it's like five years old, you know I mean.
Niall:You can trespass on your own school.
Jason: On your own school! And if you don't...
Laura: You're a criminal if you do!
Jason: I mean what kind of criminal charges are they going, what are they going to send this child up to, like, Raleigh State or some sort of penitentiary, you know, I mean come on! What are they going do?
Niall:Well, they did. I think there is another story of where they took someone to a juvenile detention center, a prison basically.
Laura: I don't have that one here.
Niall:No? Let me have a look. They booked him, as in you know, they formally sort of charged him, and kept him there until his parents came to pick him up. That, for me, just, at that point, no, there were no adults at any point in that process that said "hang on a second, this is not..." They went the whole way through with it, formally charged him until his parents could pick him up, so he spent two hours in prison.
Joe: Yup.
Niall:I think there was another kid; it was another imaginary weapon case where he put his hand up in a kind of gun shape...
Joe: Yup.
Niall:...and pretended to pull the trigger.
Joe: Yeah.
Niall:I think it was that story.
Joe: Threatening behavior for a kid.
Jason: The thing that scares me is not, I'm not remotely scared of some person with a gun walking into a school or into any building that I'm in, like I'd never think, what scares me is that I might actually run into one of these people and be in some way under their power. I mean, someone who's that stupid, who that is just completely and totally disconnected from reality, they could do anything! Like I could look at them the wrong way and they'll like go "oh my god they tried to kill me!" and they'll like call the police and stuff maybe, I mean, you don't know that kind of crazy person
Joe: Yeah, well, but the thing is...
Niall:It's been building up for years, this policy of, if you see something...
Joe: Say something.
Niall:...say something.
Joe: Yeah but I mean, particularly these schools and kids in schools and stuff, like I was saying earlier on is, seems to be a direct result of the Sandy Hook thing. And based on what we said on our first show about Sandy Hook, this is by design. There seems to be that there's some specific agenda by someone being put into play here. And, I mean, you look at the end result and basically you're talking about people being in a state of terror or being on the edge of falling into a state of terror at a moment's notice type of thing.
Laura: Drop of a hat.
Joe: Yeah, basically.
Laura: You know, this is something that goes back to, we have an article on SOTT that I put together, and it's some research that was done by a guy named Sargent, and he did some research on Ivan Pavlov's experiments on programming or conditioning dogs.
Joe: Uh-huh
Laura: And what they learned was that you put a dog into a state of absolute, abject terror and even if they had a strong program to do one thing before, you could completely eradicate it and change it and imprint the program that you want into the dog, and not only that, but a program that is imprinted into a dog when they are in this state of, what they call trans marginal inhibition, you can't erase it. It's very, very difficult to get rid of it. It's like it becomes a permanent part of that person, which is why, you know, people suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, they get into a situation where they're extremely traumatized, something is said to them during that moment of trauma, and forever afterwards, you know, something about the thing that is programed into them, you know, forever brings back the feeling of being traumatized.
Joe: Mmhmm
Laura: It's like being in an automobile accident. You know, you see a guy crossing the road at the moment the accident happened and he's got on a blue hat.
Joe: Mmhmm
Laura: You may forget that there was a guy crossing the road wearing a blue hat afterwards, but you've got this trauma buried deep inside you and, you know, one day you may be walking down the street and somebody wearing a blue hat passes in front of you, and you go into a state of trauma, you have an anxiety attack, you collapse on the sidewalk, the EMTs, you know, come and take you away, whatever. You don't even realize that what is happening to you is because of this trauma that happened and the imprinting of the man with the blue hat. So the same thing can happen with words, ideas, this is what happened during 9/11, all of this really began during 9/11. 9/11 was the big imprinting event of our...
Joe: Absolutely, and we're going get into that in this show but we've got a call right now, so I'm just going take it...
Caller: Hello.
Joe: Hello? Hello caller, you're on the air. What's your name?
Caller: My name's Joe.
Joe: Hey Joe.
Jason: Where you from?
Caller Joe: Montana
Jason: Montana...
Joe: What's your comment or question?
Caller Joe: I'm taking a look at your description page and it seems to me as though you're kind of worried about cosmic events or aliens.
Joe: Not aliens, no.
Caller Joe:Am I getting that right?
Joe: Not aliens, no.
Jason: No, no mention of aliens.
Caller Joe: Not aliens, just the cosmic type of stuff, like meteorites?
Joe: More like big rocks falling on our heads.
Caller Joe: Oh okay.
Laura: You know, like the one that just fell in Russia.
Caller Joe: All right and you're kind of worried that there might be more of them coming in the future?
Laura: We're not worried at all.
Joe: We're not worried. We just want to let people know that it's coming. They might want to...
Laura: That there is a real good probability that it's going happen and it's going hurt a lot of people and, you know, but we're not worried, no.
Joe: Yeah, it's more about just being, being, you know, making people aware of the possibility of that, you know.
Caller Joe: So you believe that there will probably be more meteorites and asteroids hitting the earth, but it's not something that worries you?
Joe: No, not really, no. I mean everybody...
Laura: Why worry? We can't do anything about it if it happens. If it doesn't happen great, but if it does, you know, we're ready.
Joe: We all got to die someday, you know.
Caller Joe: Oh okay.
Jason: Let me ask you a question though, bro. How many of these, okay, let's pretend that they exist, okay? How many of these do you think that there are? I mean how many like occurrences do you think that there are?
Caller Joe: I have no idea.
Jason: You have no idea, so how many?
Joe: Well, since 2005 there has been about a four-fold increase, this is the American Meteor Society...
Caller Joe: Mmhmm.
Joe: ...you know, catalogs them and it produces them on the website, the numbers. And from 2005 there was about 400 or something worldwide and last year there was 2200, or something like that.
Niall: Yeah.
Jason: That's quite a large degree.
Joe: It was about a four or five fold increase, year on year...
Jason: So let me ask you bro, do you think that that's enough to be worried about? I mean...
Caller Joe: No, because what you're doing you're taking a look at a certain trend and you're assuming that the trend is going continue. That's the same kind of reasoning that people have when they take a look at the stock market. They say what goes up, is going continue to go up, a lot, until it comes down for some reason. Uh...
Jason: Well...
Caller Joe:...just because something has happened in the past, there's no correlation between that and what might happen in the future, unless you have a cause and effect situation.
Laura: Okay, let me explain this to you. There are several astronomers and astrophysicists that have been working on this problem since the 80s. They mathematically retro-engineered the orbits of multiple meteor streams and concluded that they all began from the single progenitor giant comet. They've done the math and they predicted back in the 80s that right around this period of time, like for the past 5-10 years and heading forward, that we are in an extremely dangerous period because we have moved into an area of space that is just loaded with debris from the breakup of this giant comet. There has been an extraordinary increase in the number and location of what's called noctilucent clouds. Noctilucent clouds are formed in the extreme upper atmosphere, because of comet dust in the atmosphere. There has been, you know, an extraordinary lowering of the upper level cold atmosphere, there is a quieting of the sun, there've been multiple things that indicate that these astronomers were correct, and that we are very possibly facing, ourselves, a Shoemaker-Levy type event on this Earth.
Joe: That's the one that hit Jupiter.
Caller Joe: Mmhmm
Laura: So you know basically we work with the science and we publish the science.
Joe: But, even from a kind of layman's perspective, like I just said, it has been increasing year on year. In 2005 there's been quite a few, you know, a large number basically and this year, just a few days ago, was really the first major impact event.
Laura: It was the first big one that actually...
Joe: So, even based on that kind of like reasoning, we're saying "well, it seems to be building up here to something," and then we get this one that hits over Russia, and we say "well, chances are, or at least there is a decent probability, maybe 50/50, that we're going get more," you know?
Laura: And there have been impacts...
Caller Joe: No, the layman explanation doesn't hold water, the one about, if you're going go back to the astronomers having traced back the paths of the meteors, that makes more sense.
Jason: Yeah.
Laura: Well I would really urge you guy, you know I love you, I love Montana. I would really urge you to read my new book, and you can get it really cheap on Kindle, because I'm not really making any money because Amazon makes the money on that. But read it because I have collected the science together in that book and I have foot-noted it up the yin-yang so if you want to follow anything up you got the sources right there at your fingertips, and believe me, the picture isn't pretty. It's uh, these guys, Victor Clube, Bill Napier, Mark Bailey, Mike Bailey, there's endocrinologists , and there's several others that, you know, that I can't pull the names off the top of my head right at the moment, they've been working on this for a very long time, they, uh, you know, basically, and what their saying is not so much, you know, impact events that would be like, say an asteroid hitting the ground and making a big, gigantic crater that is the danger. And even John Lewis at the University of Arizona says that the big danger to humanity is overhead explosions, you know, bodies that enter the atmosphere, they heat up so fast and then they explode in the upper atmosphere and they ablate the landscape, you know, like having an atomic explosion in the air.
Caller Joe: Mmhmm
Laura: And they can cause, kind of like, you know, the Tunguska event. So these things are, you know, what we're concerned about. They're obviously not world-ending events. They're obviously localized, as we've just seen. But if you had 50 or 60 of these and if one of them, just possibly, happens to happen in a big way over a major city and also put all these dust particles in the atmosphere, which would affect climate, you know, we're looking at something that could really, really harm our civilization in a very serious way.
Caller Joe: Mmhmm
Laura: It's not the end of the world though. That's why I say, you know, we're not worried about it. If we happen to be in the spot where one of them blows up over our heads and we all get ablated, okay that's it, you know, I'm perfectly happy to go out that way. But otherwise it's going happen here or there, and here and there and lots of people have the opportunity to survive and to know what's going on.
Caller Joe: Okay.
Laura: It's not the end of the world.
Caller Joe: Alright, and you submitted your findings to a peer review journal?
Joe: Well, a lot...
Laura: I've written books about it.
[Background chuckling in studio]
Caller Joe: Well okay, all right, you've gotten the books. My question is have you submitted your findings to any type of peer review journal? This is something which is scientific.
Joe: Well a lot of the information the book draws from is information from peer review...
Laura: I use the information from peer review journals. I am a writer. I am not the scientist. I am the synthesizer. But I will tell you I've got an e-mail from Mike Bailey this morning who says "boy does this look interesting you covered a lot of ground."
Joe: Yes...
Jason: Yeah, I mean the thing is...
Joe: ...the name of the book is Comets and The Horns of Moses just in case you're interested. But we're going let you go and thanks for the call. We're going take another call here okay?
Caller Joe: Okay.
Joe: Thanks very much.
Niall: Thank you
Joe: All right we're going to another call here, maybe. No, it dropped off. I think when we leave people on hold too long they...
Caller: Hello?
Joe: ...get bored...
Laura: You think it cut them off?
Joe: ...I don't know they get bored.
Jason: Yeah.
Joe: Maybe they'll call back.
Jason: I think they get bored of waiting.
Joe: Anyway, yeah, I mean...
Niall: Well that's-that's a completely understandable point, I mean this is new, so...
Laura: It shouldn't be new to a lot of people because we've been writing about it and publishing about it for the last, what? 13 years?
Caller: I did have a question...
Jason: We got someone here?
Joe: No.
Niall:That sounded like someone who, anyway, yeah we've been banging on about this subject for so long but who else has?
Joe: Yeah, well nobody else has been and it's now when events like that happened in Russia, happen and people record it and video and stuff and it goes worldwide that we can kind of say "you know, we've been taking about this for 10 years and nobody's been listening" and we knew that was going to happen, but hang on there's another call here.
Caller: Hello?
Joe: Hi. Hello caller what's your name?
Caller: Timothy.
Joe: Hi Timothy. Where you from?
Timothy: I'm from North Carolina.
Joe: North Carolina.
Laura and Jason: Yay! North Carolina!
Joe: They like North Carolina.
Jason: We like North Carolina.
Niall: Welcome to the show Timothy.
Joe: What's your question or comment?
Timothy: Yeah, I had a question about the um, the impact, the speed of earth, you know. Earth travels through space at over 65000 miles per hour.
Jason: Yup.
Timothy: Right?
Joe and Niall: Yup.
Laura: Close enough!
Timothy: And when you look at the trajectory of some of these meteors and asteroids that come into our atmosphere, it's kind of strange the clocking that's done on those, or, you know, anywhere between 12 and 17 thousand miles per hour. I guess my question is; I've been lead to look at gravity, but when you have a body like Earth and the Moon moving at 65000 miles per hour through space, it's just kind of strange to see something traveling at 17000 miles an hour catch it and hit it, strike it. It's not like a collision.
Laura: Well, I think that what happens is, is that the Earth passes through these streams of debris and I think that what's really more amazing is that more of them don't actually hit. And I guess that's probably because, in their particular orbit, the meteorites or the meteor orbits, uh, the meteor stream, I think that they have clumped, you know, like they have long stretches, like a big ribbon, you know, at a right angle to the Earth orbit, and you know there are clumps of things in them and they don't always intersect with the big clumps with the Earth when it's passing through that particular point. I was reading about this Russian thing and they were saying that it was coming, coming from the direction of the sun, wasn't that what they said?
Niall: Yeah, and they couldn't track it because they were blind-sided by it, or something like that.
Laura: Yeah, and so there's some really strange things about all of it that we'd really like to know, and I got some queries out to some of the experts, uh, and hopefully they're going to, you know, give me some answers so that it can go into the next book or we can get it into an article. Fortunately we do have, you know, some experts on our team and we have, you know, people who do publish in peer review journals who can give us information, but yeah, I see your point.
Timothy: Right, now how about...
Laura: It's got a 17 minute window to hit, you know, before the earth is gone from that spot.
Timothy: Yeah, you would imagine like a missile coming through the sky trying to shoot it down with a 22. So, it nearly impossible because, of the um, just the sheer magnitude of speed in which science seems to clock earth in a 365 day route. Now, let's say at 93000 miles away, the sun being. Let's say that it travels around, let's say it travels around the Earth in 24 hours. If you did that kind of math, you could see where that would blow a scientists mind...
Laura: What's traveling around the earth?
Timothy: Excuse me?
Laura: What's traveling around the earth?
Timothy: No, instead of imagining our solar system as the sun being the center, in other words, you would imagine the earth being center and the sun traveling around earth in 24 hours, what would the speed of that, um, that being, then when you start to, if you look at history and the times of these discoveries of how our orbits and the planets and the Egyptian hieroglyphs and etcetera, etcetera, you just come away with a, you know, a much mightier and more quantum physic type of reality as far as space is concerned. But, it just doesn't make any sense, you know. If you look at something 65000 miles an hour and then a meteor hits you at 17000 miles an hour, it just makes you stop and wonder about science's mathematics you know? They're...
Laura: I see what you're saying. There's some mysterious thing going on there. There's an attractor wouldn't you say?
Timothy: Well, [chuckle], if you got something moving at 65000 miles an hour through space and you have these SHO and these telescopes up here from NASA...
Laura: But they can't see it.
Timothy: ...you would assume that the Earth, you know, by way of their trajectory, they're all looking at the sun really at different perspectives of space around it. And, uh, feed us data, you know, one thing that blows my mind is that the comet Love-Joy was discovered by a man in Australia and NASA has a hundred trillion dollars' worth of imagery equipment.
Laura: Absolutely.
Timothy: It's just...
Jason: You know one thing you got to remember is, is that space is big. It's big and you're looking for little rocks.
Laura: Yeah, well there are also a lot of things that NASA doesn't tell us. They have classified all information about in coming space rocks.
Timothy: Exactly. Now, everything we get from NASA said they, that confirms comet Love-Joy. And then they show you footage of comet Love-Joy, uh, heading towards the sun. Now when you see that and you see that it has the name comet Love-Joy, it makes one wonder how it doesn't have something like DA14 stamped on it. You know, it seems like it would have been a NASA number because of the sheer size of 400 years ago, [chuckle], just watching something like that come towards the sun seems to be very...
Laura: There is nothing that makes sense coming out of NASA.
Timothy: It doesn't. It doesn't. None of it does.
Jason: You have to work from the idea that all of those established authorities have some sort of ulterior motive, that they have some sort of agenda to prevent you from having any kind of information about that type of stuff on the grounds that like, you know, what I was saying a minute ago, is that there's really nothing you can do about a giant rock heading towards you, you know, it's sort of like the Armageddon problem. We can't just shoot missiles at it type of thing, you know...
Timothy: Right, you have to have a laser.
Jason: You can't do anything about it, and nobody and no government wants to say "umm, shit's going happen and we can't do anything to protect you." And people are going be like "then why are we giving you all this money and listening to you?" You know? So I mean they don't want that. So NASA has a vested interest in preventing any person from having access to information that would scare them or make them call into the question the authority, the established authorities. So I mean, you know, those are some great points, dude.
Laura: Absolutely, and thanks for calling.
Timothy: You're welcome. I would love to have hundreds of other questions of all the other mathematics and all that...
Laura: The mathematician is not with us tonight. He's upstairs working.
Jason: You should go to Amazon.com and look umm...
Timothy: Go to where?
Jason: Go to Amazon.com and look for Comets and The Horns of Moses. You can get it as a Kindle book, if you don't have a Kindle you just sort of download the little reader and then read it on your computer.
Joe: Or you can buy a hard copy.
Jason: Or you can buy the hard copy, now.
Joe: And it's not too expensive and there'll be a lot of stuff in there, I think, that'll interest you if you're interested in this topic, you know.
Timothy: All right. Well see, right now, when I'm reading the books that are available from, you know, we'll say around Christ's era, maybe a little before, that have, you know when you look at Aristotle and those guys, and you do all, and follow their work and what they're basing all their studies and work on seems to be some kind of faith that was prior to their ability to start researching it.
Joe: Well Timothy, you got to read this book man because...
Laura: Yeah, you brought up Aristotle, yup!
Joe: All the philosophers are in there and what was going on around that time and what they were saying and what they were saying it.
Laura: What they were saying, yup!
Joe: It's called Comets and The Horns of Moses.
Timothy: You know what the whole answer of it is though?
Laura: What?
Timothy: What I found the answer to it all is, is that, and this may blow your mind, but the King James version of the Holy Bible, it gives you a creation order that seems to put in a different perspective, if you think about the way god wrote the creation in, the sun being created on the fourth day when you look at those...
Laura: And that's why you're going love Comets and The Horns of Moses. Just think, the Horns of Moses. It's all about the stuff you're talking about. Get it and read it please!
Timothy: Well you guys ought to put, mention, uh, Joshua, uh, chapter 10 and verse 12...
Laura: When the sun stood still.
Timothy: Right, but it didn't just sit still. He knew where the sun would sit still...
Laura: It went backwards.
Timothy: And the moon, where it would be positioned on earth. So he, as he, Joshua knew where the sun was at that time. He also knew where the moon was at on the other side of the planet, you see what I mean?
Laura: Well of course! And that takes mathematical calculation ability. Because, you know, to be able to calculate where the moon is going be when it's not in view you have to be able to do the math.
Timothy: That's right. Written before Christ, that is the beauty of it. See, you're getting a history that seems to embrace every theory being chased after today, but all of them, in other words, if you're chasing a false mathematic you'll always end up with some kind of magical looking thing.
Laura: And that's all the stuff that we got in this book, and, you know, that's why I say go out and get the book. We got another caller coming in, so thanks for calling...
Timothy: Okay, you guys have a great day.
Joe: You too Timothy.
Laura: And you too and Rah! Rah! North Carolina!
Timothy: Awesome.
Jason: All right, take care, Tim.
Joe: All right see you.
Jason: Have a good evening, afternoon actually. It is mind boggling.
Laura: Right, right. Wait, hold on a second. You lost it. You lost the caller.
Jason: We got to stop letting the callers ramble on too long. Sorry Tim. But people ramble on and somebody else gets dropped.
Joe: Okay, hang on, the caller is back. This is a caller show. Hi caller what's your name and where you from?
Caller: Hi, it's Lynne, I'm calling from Canada.
All: Hey Lynne.
Niall:Welcome.
Jason: Is it cold in Canada right now?
Joe: We like Canada.
Niall:We love Canada.
Jason: No we don't.
Niall: Yeah we do.
Jason: I hate them. Canada...
Joe: Jason! Lynne.
Jason: Oh, okay Lynne, yeah we do. Yes we do, yes we do, okay Lynne, sorry.
Joe: And what's your question or comment?
Lynne: Well, it's more a comment. First of all I wanted to say I've already got my copy of Horns of Moses, it's completely fantastic, everybody should read that book. And I really want to thank Laura for making that information available.
Laura: Thank you, Lynne. That is very sweet. I personally do think it's packed with information, which was my intention. And I hope I made it entertaining and readable for just everybody.
Lynne: Oh, it is. It is. It was just delightful to run through it. My comment actually has to go back more to the whole paranoia thing you started out with. This is minor, but it's pretty typical of what's going on in the states. I wanted to order a product that I had to send a money order in for. And because it wasn't PayPal and I couldn't use my credit card and it was just silly. So I go to the bank where I always buy money orders, but I haven't bought one for about three years, and they said "Gee, we're really sorry, uh, we have to take all this information and then there will be a five day hold." And I said "Excuse me?"
Laura: What!?
Lynne: And the gal said "I'm really sorry but these are the government rules. We have to hold your money order for five days." And I just stared at her and I said "That's crazy!" and she kind of laughed and said "yeah, that's crazy." And we chatted a little bit more about it and finally I just said "They've all gone insane down there" which is why I live here now. Although, the reason, I'm sure, that they have to do that is because the U.S. went to Canada and said "By the way, because terrorists will, you know, try to transfer money...
Lynne: Its forty dollars! A forty dollar money order.
Laura: Forty dollars!? My god!
Lynne: I know, I know! I ended up going to the post office because I'm sure they collect the information in different ways, but they weren't going hold it for five days. But this is, it's like it's filtered down to the most minute parts of our lives. This control, it's crazy!
Joe: Absolutely.
Lynne: Yeah. Anyway...
Jason: I wonder if people ever get tired of all the control, you know, I mean how could you not get tired of all this control? Why do people want it in their lives? And you say "oh they're afraid." But like, yeah, but you're still afraid, you're afraid all the time, but now you're afraid with all of these controls. And it's just like why don't you just accept the fear and then go along with your freedom and, just be like "Yeah, I could get bombed today or not but, you know what, at least I'm free." The idea of like...
Lynne: Well I think they're playing the security card, you know, "we're going protect you from people sending forty dollars so they can buy, you know, Simtex or whatever."
Jason: Well, I mean like, at this point they're kind of like milking a dead horse because, I mean seriously, they've been instituting all these controls and worse and worse stuff happens, and then you're just like "Well, none of these controls are actually working so let's just get rid of them." No one thinks like that.
Lynne: Well, I think people are very lethargic and I'm sure these, this trans-marginal inhibition has something to do with it. But it's just people's, things that would have outraged somebody four years ago just barely gets their attention these days, it's quite scary.
Joe: Absolutely.
Niall:It's just accepted.
Jason: What's really interesting though and I was pointing this out, I think, with Niall the other day is that, you know, growing up, I mean, I hung around with all these libertarians and they were always saying, you know, like "If they do X, Y, or Z, that's going start a revolution. Ah, that's the line in the sand!"
Lynne: Mmhmm.
Jason: And it's like they've gone past Z all the way around this, to A, B, C again, you know, they've doubled over on to it, and none of these people did revolt.
Laura: It's like the Christians back in the 80s, and they were all, and there was a whole bunch of stuff about, "Oh, the mark of the beast, mark of the beast!" Then they're talking about, uh, what is it? Oh, a bar code, yeah, bar codes were the mark of the beast and they're going put bar codes on people, and they're going put a bar code implants in them. And as soon as that happens, of course Jesus is going come, A or B they were going have a revolution, uh, things were going...
Lynne: Mmhmm.
Laura: ...and it's gone so far beyond that now and nobody has said a word!
Lynne: I know. It's, it's amazing. And I think because things did not turn out as people pictured it, then they just sort of went "Well, okay, it really didn't happen." Because they had this picture in their head of what it was going look like, and it didn't happen the way they thought it was going happen, so it just kind of dropped off the radar.
Laura: Right.
Jason: So right back to Alexis de Tocqueville, you know, we'll be all the more likely to follow a totalitarian government because it doesn't resemble one.
Lynne: Right.
Laura: Well, not only that, but people didn't count on the use of fear.
Lynne: Yeah.
Laura: Because now, the very same people who would've been saying back in the 80s "Well, you know, if they come to me and they want to inject a some kind of bar code thing into my kids, or whatever, I'm not going let it happen." But then they start worrying about their kids getting lost, kidnapped, or whatever, and the fear factor gets pumped up and they say "Oh! Yeah! Yeah, inject a tracker in my kid. Please, please, inject a tracker."
Joe: Yeah
Lynne: Exactly. Well, anyway, I know you've got more calls. I just wanted to throw that little tiny piece of totalitarian...
Laura: Thanks for calling sweetie.
Joe: Alright.
Jason: Thanks for calling in...
Lynne: Okay! Good show and I can't wait to hear what else you have to say.
All: Alright.
Jason: Take care. And keep Canada safe.
Lynne: Okay, bye bye.
Joe: Yeah, so basically what she's saying is that all of those, all of these little controls in little areas throughout everyone's lives, all of them conspire to basically remind people that there is a threat. Threats can be from, originally it was kind of terrorism, it was terrorism abroad coming to the U.S., now it's kind of like maybe homegrown terrorism based on these school shootings and these other guys who've been going off and shooting people and stuff, you know. So, it's just a reminder all the time, like Lynne just said you go to the, do something in the bank, you would transfer some money and there's a reminder from the bank that there's some kind of threat, there's some kind of potential threat.
Niall:Yeah.
Joe: Even just in you transferring money. And that, I mean, people probably come across that in myriad ways, many times each day or each week in the different things they do. The little reminder, the little meme is presented to them that danger, danger, you know? And all of that, I mean, the logical reason or agenda behind that, if there is an agenda behind it, would be to basically make people more dependent on authority, afraid basically and therefore more dependent on authority to protect them, you know. I mean, it's not rocket science, you know, but it is at a psychological level that may elude some people, you know.
Laura: There are two things that the whole thing brings to mind. The first one is, is Andrzej Lobaczewski in his book Political Ponerology talks about the hysterization or the hystericization, I think he used the word hysterization or something like that and so I changed it to hystericization, of society. When a society becomes so frightened, so edgy, so, um, you know...
Jason: Hysterical.
Laura: Yeah. They basically become hysterical, and he was talking particularly about the dueling mania that was raging across Europe in the late part of the 19th and early part of the 20th century prior to World War I. And that it was this kind of edginess that led to World War I. That, you know, people were just completely unable to handle their fears. They were unable, I mean, they would, you know, go off half-cocked, you know, at the drop of a hat. I mean look at all the crazy things that are going on, all the crazy things people are doing. We got another caller coming in?
Joe: Umm, no.
Laura: Yeah, so...
Joe: But, yeah, I mean...
Laura: But that's the first thing, there's a second thing. The second thing is, is one thing that Victor Clube points out and I have found it myself in my own historical research, that during periods of increased cometary and fireball flux, that is activity in the skies, people tend to become hysterical and they don't appear to know why. And, you know, I had this idea that it's a nervousness, I mean their system is taking in the fact that the weather has gone haywire, that there's increasing earthquakes, there's increasing fireballs, there's a lot of increasing activity on the planet, we're having food shortages, floods, incredible crazy, creepy weather. People are taking this in but all-the-while they're being told...
Joe: It's all normal.
Laura: ...by the government that this is all normal, or worse, it's anthropogenic global warming.
Joe: It's your fault.
Laura: It's all your fault because you've made the world you know, heat up and now we're all screwed.
Joe: Mmhmm.
Laura: So, you know, they're getting these, the cognitive dissonance going on. On the one hand their system is reading it and on the other hand their brains are trying to normalize it, the normalcy bias, that routine.
Joe: Mmhmm.
Laura: So by trying to normalize it, they're in conflict with what their evolutionary, you know people are designed evolu- they've evolved. They evolved to survive in a hostile environment, on a hostile planet. We have all kinds of systems in our bodies that read the environment, they detect the temperature, the light, the sound effects, the colors, the, you know, the possible presence of threats and so forth, and all of that is evolutionarily implanted in us.
Joe: Mmhmm
Laura: So if your body is designed to do that and it's picking all this stuff up and you feel a threat but your brain, your program, your trans-marginally inhibited brain has been programed to say "Oh, no it's not that it's this instead. It's over here."
Joe: Well, that's what they're getting from the authorities...
Laura: Exactly!
Joe: ...they're getting propaganda from the authorities...
Laura: Exactly!
Joe: ...to rationalize it away.
Laura: So they have it one and the same time. Their bodily systems telling them one thing, their brain, their program, telling them another thing and they're in a complete state of hysteria as a result because they've got this huge inner conflict going on. They've got a war going on inside them.
Joe: Mmhmm.
Laura: And it's making them crazy. You know, people were having basically a global nervous breakdown.
Joe: Mmhmm.
Laura: That's what it is.
Joe: Mmhmm, because of this conflict.
Niall:There is a great book by Martha Stout. She is an expert on psychopathology and she talks about, in almost the same terms as you just described Laura, called Limbic Warfare where our Limbic system is picking up things from this environment.
Joe: What's our Limbic system?
Niall:The Limbic system is part of the brain that processes...
Laura: It's that evolutionary threat detection system.
Joe: Yes that you just talked about. Okay.
Niall:Right. And she makes the case that, every time there is a, not just a real terrorists attack, terrorists attacks aren't real, but any time there's an event that reminds people of the terror, at the political level, it sets off their Limbic system, it goes haywire. And she suggested in a great book called The Paranoia Switch...
Joe: Mmhmm.
Niall:...that they are deliberately flicking this...
Laura: Clickity, clickity, pushing that button.
Niall:Yeah.
Laura: Pushing that button. They want to keep you in a state of terror because they want to keep you programed; they want to keep putting in your mind what they want you to think and what they want you to believe because pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. And that man behind the curtain, believe it or not, is out there! Not over there.
Joe: Yeah, so they're substituting the threat of over there for the threat out there, to override it. Because she says in her book, The Paranoia Switch, she says "We are hardwired to be most fearful of harm when it threatens to occur maliciously at the hands of our fellow human beings...
Laura: Uh-huh.
Joe: ...and this special variety of fear is the most contagious of all." Right, so sure, there is obviously a natural human instinct to...
Laura: That they engage to distract our attention to what is really out there. And the reason is, and this is the greatest thing I think, one of the things Victor Clube wrote in his book, it was either Cosmic Winter or no it wasn't, it was a paper that he wrote for the Air Force. He wrote them an assessment of the situation, the comet threat. And he said in that paper, and I'm going paraphrase a little bit, he says that we need the cold war to hide the celestial intentions.
Joe: Yeah, he said it's not celestial intentions are being used to hide cold war intentions or celestial events or celestial threats are being used to hide cold war intentions, it's the other way around.
Laura: Yeah, and I mean the reason, now the question is, do the people in charge, the power elite, do they know? Now, you know, I've gone back and forth on this back when I was writing The Wave and Adventure series and all that. You know, I had come to the idea that surely they know. They know and they're making preparations. You know, they're digging underground bases, you know, they're basically getting ready to trash society. I mean, you remember this movie, it's was kind of really a cheesy, cheesy movie, this 2012 was that the name of it?
Joe: Mmhmm, yeah.
Laura: Where they had the giant arks in China or something.
Niall:Yeah.
Laura: Well, the thing is, is that the reason for the end of the world in that movie was absolutely stupid, but the idea of the government, you know, preparing a place for themselves and, you know, everybody with billions of dollars can buy into it, and I mean, just think about the fact that Bill Gates, you know, bought into that big seed vault up there in...
Joe: Yeah
Laura: ...where is it? Is it Svalbard?
Jason: Svalbard.
Joe and Niall: Norway.
Laura: ...Norway. You know, so that, I mean, do they really know? Do they really understand? So I thought, okay, they really know, they really understand. That's why they're doing these underground bases, that's why they got people programed, that's why they created 9/11. They wanted to get people trans-marginally inhibited so that they can program them and control them. They want to keep them busy because they don't want them paying attention to the earthquakes, they don't want them paying attention to the noctilucent clouds, they don't want them asking the real important questions about what's going on with our climate. They invented this whole anthropogenic global warming business, and I mean we were on top of that right when it was happening. And they did all this because they want to distract people from the things that are really going on. And the thing that drives me nuts is why? Why? Why? You know, why are they doing this?
Joe: To save their own asses.
Laura: Well, the thing is...
Joe: But that requires them to know what's going on and to be fully conscious of the whole situation and to be taking actions.
Jason: The thing is to save humanity from this threat, themselves included, would require a series of actions that is completely opposite to what they're doing, right. It would be about creating a sustainable format of society that could survive those types of things. That isn't so dependent on central, you know, situations that could be just sort of like cometary impacted and boom it's gone...
Niall:And that isn't at war with itself.
Jason: ...you know?
Laura: I'm not even sure that they could, you know I mean, that their ideas about how to survive or how to, you know, are they even feasible? You know, how can they know where, when, how or, I mean, that there would be an impact or that there would be an event, or that there would be an earthquake or...
Joe: Well, I don't think they do.
Laura: Because, you know, that's not something that you can know.
Joe: I know. They may have some awareness of it, but as to the idea of them having this broad understanding of even that this kind of thing happens cyclically and that it's coming around again and they're going save their own butts by building these underground bases and screw humanity, let them all perish and the fire from heaven. I don't think that's the case. I think, but the, here's the really weird thing. The weird thing is that what they're doing, just as a function, say, of psychopathy, actually ends up creating a situation where it looks like they are doing it deliberately.
Laura: Yeah, that's something I've thought about too, that's another one of my options.
Joe: It's almost like nature...
Laura: It's their nature to do what they do, the way they do it, and we all assume that they know what they're doing when, in fact, they don't and they can't.
Joe: Well because look at it this way, here's an argument for the whole war on terror that we've just been talking about, the idea of instilling fear in the population, fear of the other, like Martha Stout says "When a leader chooses to exploit this contagion of fear, essentially, a threat of harm or death from others, when the leader chooses to exploit this contagion, rather than calm and heal it, he is engaging in what is called Limbic warfare." So, here's the thing, the whole war on terror, which creates fear among the population, like threat of harm...
Laura: It's a war of terror not on terror.
Joe: ...well, a threat or death, to Americans, to whoever this terrorist threat is targeting. That is being done, as far as I'm concerned, that's being done simply to, as a justification for imperial expansion which, behind which is just greed and a need for power and control and domination and stuff. So that's their reason for doing it, not the idea that they're using the whole terror threat that created the terror threat, and to mask the celestial threat. It's having the same result, it's having that effect, but that's not the intention.
Laura: Yeah.
Joe: The intention is just pure greed to expand empire and to control as many people as they can and, you know, they get their jollies from killing people and blowing people up with drones and stuff like that. But the, I don't think there is any overarching, conscious agenda among the elite to mask any potential threat from bad things.
Laura: I think there is among some of them.
Joe: Maybe way up high.
Laura: There is among some of them because there is, to me, there is no other explanation for the massive underground base building activity. There's no other explanation for, say, the seed vaults that they created. I mean if some of these other scientists are correct and we are heading into an ice age, what the heck good is a seed vault in Svalbard, Norway going to be? I mean, it would be under, what, six miles of ice?
Joe: They've got their drilling machines. They can get at it.
Laura: Oh, they think they can!
Joe: They reckon they can. But, even that, I mean, even that is, I'm sure they do know because they have this Pentagon report that they presented to Bush in 2004 saying that, basically, climate change is going to just screw things up worldwide. UK is going be Siberian by 2020. I mean, this is all officially this is an official Pentagon report to Bush. And there'll be wars for natural resources like for, well there's already wars for natural resources, but wars for water and food. So, clearly someone is thinking about that in government and knows about it. And sure they would be taking precautions for that eventuality and doing something to save, making sure they're okay. But that still doesn't necessarily mean that they have taken action to keep the population, you know, placated in the way that we're talking about. Like that they consciously are, because to think that way posits a really Machiavellian, broad, dastardly plan where they, do you know what I mean? Centuries old, almost, you know?
Jason: There is no they.
Joe: Well, yeah, this is a thorny question.
Jason: There is no they.
Joe: Is there a grand conspiracy or not?
Jason: There's no grand conspiracy. I mean, these guys are a bunch of seas of factions who may or may not be more or less aware on different levels of various different things and have different agendas, you know, I mean, there is the psychopathic leader guy who just wants to rape the economy and make all of his money and do some backroom deals and get out of politics when he's done. And there does seem to be an undercurrent of maybe there's a conspiracy of some people, like I was talking about the other day, of this sort of like this group of very intelligent people who might planning this kind of stuff, because sometimes you see that. But most of the time what you see is just chaotic, rapacious, you know, greedy nature to politicians, and they're just sort of running amuck around here and, the problem is, is that what they do seems so consistent because they're consistently self-interested, you know? That they just, they always do what they do...
Joe: What they're programed to do.
Jason: ...consistently. You know, I mean, psychopaths are consistent. If you put them in charge of an economy what will they do? Lots of backhand dealing and, you know, raping the economy left, right, and center. You put them in charge of the military and all of a sudden there's, you know, marines peeing on dead bodies and stuff like that. And it's like, well what did you expect when you put a psychopath in charge of those things that's the kind of stuff that happens.
Joe: Yeah, so they just do what they do according to their nature. So, if you're looking for a grand conspiracy you'd have to look at who created psychopaths if anybody created them. Is there's someone who, do you know what I mean? At that point you've gone way beyond...
Laura: Well I think that nature has an ace in the hole on that one, and that is plague. Because the one thing that consistently recurs throughout history and generally in concert with increased cometary flux and it happens whether there are impacts or not, because if there's an increased flux, there is a deposition of comet dust in the upper atmosphere and it can take about two years for it to filter down to the ground and you can have an event and then two years later you can have a plague that starts. And if anybody has been reading their history and reads about, say, the Black Death or about the plague of Justinian, then they would probably be aware that you've got a 75-80% mortality rate. Now, if you imagine that, and of course since its air born, you know, living in an isolated place is not going be a protection. So, you know, the thing is, is once a plague like that gets started, if you imagine 80% of the population of the planet earth, you know, getting sick and dying within 10-15 days or less, you've got a really big problem on your hands. And you also have something that is introduced into the biosphere to which there is, in general, no immunity. I mean, nobody, nobody is special. Being a psychopath doesn't make you immune to a plague virus.
Jason: Yeah, psychopathy is a problem with your brain.
Laura: So, I think that nature does have a little bit of the upper hand on that. And we are really, almost exactly now, due for the next big, I would say, cosmic plague.
Joe: I find it very interesting that it comes right at a time when this whole hystericization of global society but, in particular maybe American society, it's happening where it's really getting out of control, out of hand. There seems to be some, almost like a symbiosis between the two. I just note that it's interesting that we have this increase in fireballs and this impact event in Russia.
Laura: It seems to go together.
Joe: It's almost like it's needed, you know. Something needs to be done, you know because it really is getting out of control. In the U.S., we mentioned all of this hysteria around schools and kids with paper guns and stuff. There has also been over the past few weeks, there has been several military drills, unannounced military drills, over American towns where you have helicopters and SWAT teams and stuff just descending at night. There was one in Miami, there was one somewhere in Texas, there was one in California, and people just kind of wake up at night or during the day whatever, they look up and see these Blackhawk helicopters flying around, and gunfire and stuff and they don't know what's going on. But I was watching a report as one resident of a town this occurred over was asked what he thought about it and he says "well, if it keeps the kids safe." When I hear the average American saying that, I can't but help think that it was by design. Because if the government wanted to put a police state in place, if that has been their goal, to militarize society and create a police state, well then they are doing a pretty good job. Whether it is just a natural function of psychopathy or whether it's planned that way, it doesn't really matter. It seems to be happening. This whole business with, obviously it began with 9/11, the War on Terror, and then torture. Getting American people to accept the idea of torture something fine, okay, even for innocent people where there is no evidence that they have done anything wrong. Torture them anyway, just to keep us safe. And now it's drones. Drone strikes and basically...
Laura: How low we have gone in what eleven years?
Joe: It's not American citizens you know. There is this guy, John Brennan who Obama has nominated to be the next director of the CIA, was just in front of the Senate for the Senate Confirmation Hearings to see whether he would be approved or not. He is basically a drone czar or the drone assassination czar and has been for quite a long time. It's basically about, a lot of the discussion was about whether or not it was okay, well they say the President, but whether or not it's okay for the U.S. government or the CIA to basically decide when they can kill American citizens without any due process whatsoever, if they've determined that one American citizen on their kill list, which they call disposition in Orwellian speak, it's called a disposition matrix, but it's basically a kill list of people drawn up by the CIA and it includes and can include American citizens. And if someone, they say the president but obviously Obama has no idea what's going on really he'll just do whatever the CIA tells him to do in the sense of the information they bring, but if they decide they can kill an American citizen then boom that's it. No trials, no due process, nothing.
Laura: Do those people in the Senate, in the House of Representatives and the government itself even understand that historically speaking, whenever anyone has been given such a power, they have used it against the very people who gave them that power.
Joe: Absolutely.
Laura: Every single time, you look back at the history of ancient Athens, you look back at the history of ancient Rome, you look at the European Middle Ages, you look at Nazi Germany, you look at things that had gone on in Britain during the time of Queen Elizabeth I, and so forth. Any time, every time, that any group or individual has been given that kind of power, to extra-judicially murder someone, that is murder to them without due process of law. It has always, always been turned on the very people who instituted the rule.
Jason: Oh yeah.
Joe: That's an interesting thought. We have a call here. Hi caller, what's your name and where are you from?
Caller: Hello, this is Bernard from Topanga, California.
Joe: Hey Bernard.
Laura: Hi Bernard.
Bernard: Hello from the belly of the beast, Los Angeles.
Joe: How's that belly looking these days?
Bernard: It's alright. It's okay, not too bad now. On some level more and more people are becoming more aware so that is a positive note. Despite all of the drama that's going on. I had a question and comment in regards to what you guys were saying about recent meteor impacts and what's happening. I want to ask a question about something Laura you wrote in your first book, The Secret History of the World. You referred to your husband's work about EEQT and Quantum Theory in relation to objective reality. From what I get, from what I hear there is not much we can do about what's happening in the world and the cosmic changes. But it's also your theory that the more people actually observe the universe as it views itself, the more we get aligned with objective reality, the more we mitigate these kinds of events from happening.
Laura: Yeah.
Bernard: So, that is a very important, the best thing we can do for the whole world is to really seek truth in the most objective way as we can.
Jason: What we are seeing is what happens when we do the exact opposite. Which is we have all these people who are not seeing the world as it really is and following in the delusion and things are going to pot. So, maybe the other way is true. Why don't we try it? Who knows?
Joe: Absolutely. Sitting up and taking notice at least would be a start.
Laura: Yeah, but it feels so hopeless because people are so frightened. They are so traumatized and this is being done deliberately. We keep saying over and over again, people wake up. This is what they are doing to you. They are doing this to you deliberately. Wake up! Wake up! Wake up! Of course, our voice is so small and so obscure and they have so much money. They have billions of dollars in the Pentagon.
Jason: And we don't publish in peer reviewed journals.
Laura: Yeah, and they have the cyber warfare. It just has to happen, one person at a time. That's all I can say. In a funny sort of way, I guess when we put the information out there and people choose to ignore it and to believe the lies, they have chosen. They have condemned themselves by their refusal to accept the truth.
Jason: Willing slaves.
Bernard: Right. And so yeah back to that theory, but in a sense that, on some level our conscience has an effect on reality, right? And that this whole distortion in New Age called You Create Your Own Reality where the people kind of hide in their subjective bubble of just like focusing on what they want to see. When in fact kind of like truth is mixed with lies and we actually do create our own reality to a degree, but it is more about seeing the world as it is and then we would create more harmony. On some level prevent these events from happening.
Laura: If we could get enough people to see it that could happen. Because the one thing that happens when you finally acknowledge how things really are, now what would happen if all of these people who are so scared like the one Joe just described who said "oh, if it's keeping the kids safe," what if that guy suddenly said "wait a minute, this is not acceptable. This has nothing to do with keeping our kids safe. I am going to do something. I am going to get together with my neighbors and we are all going to see this reality and we are going to act based on what is true."
Bernard: Right.
Laura: Then you see that, in a sense you create your own reality, but it doesn't happen without a little bit of blood, sweat and tears. There is 10 percent inspiration and 90 percent perspiration seeing the truth. It's like John Lennon...
Bernard: Right. Basically, I get that. The more people would see objective reality and actually act on it and not buy into the lies and not being fooled and manipulated by the system of government. And even now with this whole, with the people that realize that what is happening with comets and the cosmic changes and they would realize that they are powerless and aware of that. And also can do nothing about it. They would just absolutely not go along anymore.
Laura: Right! It's like John Lennon said 'love is all you need,' but just saying it isn't going to do it.
Bernard: Right.
Laura: You got to actually do things.
Jason: Where did that whole You Create Your Own Reality thing come from precisely?
Laura: I think it's some kind of post-modernist re-interpretation of certain quantum principles.
Jason: I found this interesting book by Mark Twain. I have a Kindle collection of all his works. In there, it is sort of a satire of Christian Science, that Blavatsky thing or something?
Laura: No, that was Theosophy.
Jason: No. There was a book...
Laura: Mary Baker Edwards.
Jason: The key to the scriptures thing and stuff like that. He writes this thing about it. And the way he satires it is basically like saying, in essence their philosophy was this you create your own reality. So, obviously, this whole thing is very old.
Laura: Yeah, that's true.
Jason: Like the Christian Scientist comes to him and says, well you haven't really broken all those bones. They are not really broken. You just have to think positive thoughts and they will magically be healed. Obviously, that is very old.
Joe: Didn't work out for a lot of people though.
Niall:It's very old and it's not just something that lends this to New Age type people today. It comes from a global state of mind. I create my...
Laura: My truth, your truth.
Niall:Yeah.
Laura: I mean what the hell happened to 'The Truth?'
Niall:And 'The World.'
Laura: Yeah, reality.
Bernard: Yeah. Well that goes into what I am struggling with here within the New Age Kingdom of the World here in Los Angeles. The whole idea about like when I speak about truth well then there is no truth. There is only my truth and your truth and all of these things. I get so bothered with when I speak out about these things. I mean it's really sad because literally the whole New Age thing has the same thing as fundamentalist religion.
Laura: Yes, the New Age fundamentalism. You create your own reality and then they want to believe that aliens are going come down and save them or beam them aboard. Solve all their problems and all they have to do is... You know what really fries me is this guy, what's his name Wayne Dwyer or something? He did all of these books about how to create your own reality. So, he talks about how he did it. He wrote this book and then he got a whole bunch of copies of the book, put them in the back of a station-wagon. And he went on a tour across the country, every city he went to, he had these cities that he went to that were designated, marked on a map. He'd go there and he go knock on the door of radio stations and tell them he's got this book and wants them to interview him on the radio, so he can talk about his book and it's this great book. So he gets on the radio and he does this whole blitzkrieg tour of the entire United States talking on radios. Of course, a lot of doors got slammed in his face. So basically, he put a huge amount of physical activity and effort into making his dream come true and then he tells people basically you just got to think positive and be positive and things will happen for you. But that's not what he did. He got in his station-wagon and drove across the country knocking on doors and force fed his book into the market and made himself a best seller! What kind of deal is that?
Bernard: Right, right. Kind of like those books, how to get rich in 20 days and then the guy who wrote the book is getting rich by selling the book basically.
Laura: What about this Anthony Robbins guys?
Jason: Ahhh! I tell this story every once in a while. I love Anthony Robbins. He's like a personal hero of mine. Not for the reason... He's an author, he's a life coach type of thing, and he does these seminars, NLP, so he falls into that kind of stuff. So he's like a personal hero but not for the reasons he is for other people. So he ends his seminar with how to get wealthy. He does this introductory speech where he's talking about it. I am watching his introductory speech on the video and he's talking about when he first came up with this first life coaching seminar. He's like, "I was writing the seminar about how to increase your wealth and I was living in a one room apartment, sleeping underneath my desk." So I said, okay, so you had sold, you were selling a seminar on how to get rich while you were living in a one room apartment sleeping under your desk right. And then I started to think about how paradoxical this must be because, and then they, until the moment when people paid to go to this seminar, he was a liar. That the moment they actually paid for this seminar and believed him, he was telling the truth. He really did know how to get rich [laughter]. It's kind of like this paradox because he wasn't a success until people believed that he knew the idea of success and then he was a success and therefor he does know the idea of success.
Laura: Well that's...
Jason: He's a genius. My favorite thing about Tony Robbins was, he wrote this book and went around the country doing this seminar about how to have the perfect relationship with your wife and then like six months later he's divorced. [Laughter]
Joe: Wasn't he the guy who took people fire walking and they all burned their feet?
Jason: I don't know if he did that.
Laura: I think he did.
Joe: I think he did that on a retreat or something and got in trouble for it.
Laura: I have a friend whose husband went on it and he actually did it. He did the fire-walk.
Joe: Come fire-walk with me.
Bernard: Well, thank you guys.
Laura: Thank you for calling, Bernard. Have fun.
Bernard: It was good to hear from you and keep up the good work, guys.
Jason: I'd say California safe, but I would rather hear you call in and tell us of the view from beneath the ocean looks like. [Laughter]
Joe: Alright, take care.
Bernard: Take care, bye bye.
Joe: Yeah so I'll just give out the number here again in case people want to call in. From the U.S. (718) 508-9499 and you put 001 in front of that from outside the U.S. You can also email us at radio@sott.net. So, I just want to get back to what we were talking about beforehand. Because I have some stuff to say on that. And I will be heard.
Laura: Oh dear.
Jason: We got a rant coming.
Joe: No, it's basically just about the...okay, hang on. Somebody is interrupting me here with another call. Since I am such a good person, I am going to cut myself off in favor of this caller. I hope they...they better say something good.
Jason: Hi caller, you are on the air. What's your name?
Joe: Hello? Caller?
Jason: You scared them away.
Joe: They just...I scared them away. It was when I said they better have something good to say. Alright, if you want to call back, you don't have to have something particularly good to say. As long as you have got something to say, you can call back.
Jason: Don't be scared. Joe is a nice guy, really.
Joe: I am really nice.
Niall:No he's not.
Joe: No.
Jason: He beats me every time we come on to the show.
Joe: So, getting back to the thing I was just saying that basically, they are having this debate, Senators and the potential new, probable new director of the CIA, having this debate, not really a debate, but a discussion about whether or not it's okay to kill Americans in any way but potentially with drones, because that seems to be the weapon of choice these days, extrajudicial, i.e. no 5th Amendment, no due process. Just if the CIA thinks you are an enemy combatant or you are doing something wrong, they can kill you and boom it's all legal, apparently. They are saying it is legal. That they have checked with their lawyers and of course, Obama was originally a constitutional lawyer, but I don' think Obama has much to do with it anyway. Like I said, it's the CIA and all these crazy people, backroom boys who going out collecting intelligence and deciding who is the enemy combatant and who isn't and then presenting that. Supposedly, Obama has the final say, but Obama is just going to take what they say. He's not out there doing the research. He's not out there gathering intelligence.
Laura: You know that happened back in ancient Rome. You know what happened to those people who instituted that rule and actually did it? They lost their heads. I mean literally lost their heads.
Joe: Yep.
Laura: They got put on pikes.
Joe: Well, I have an audio clip here I am going to play from the Senate confirmation hearing for this guy, John Brennan. I just want to say actually before, there is a caveat here, this guy John Brennan is Irish or his parents are Irish immigrants. And for reasons that will become clear, on behalf of myself and Niall, I just want to say that he's a disgrace to the Irish population because we are both Irish we are basically disowning him.
Niall:We had nothing do with this.
Joe: Any claim he had to any Irish ancestry is been revoked by me and Niall. Anyway here's the clip:
Senator Ron Wyden (D-Ore):
"Let me ask you several other questions with respect to the president's authority to kill Americans. I've asked you how much evidence the president needs to decide that a particular American can be lawfully killed and whether the administration believes that the president can use this authority inside the United States. In my judgment, both the Congress and the public need to understand the answers to these kinds of fundamental questions. What do you think needs to be done to ensure that members of the public understand more about when the government thinks it's allowed to kill them particularly with respect to those two issues; the question of evidence and the authority to use this power within the United States?"Exiled John Brennan:
"I have been a strong proponent of trying to be as open as possible with these programs as far as our explaining what we are doing. What we need to do is optimize transparency in these issues, at the same time, optimize secrecy and the protection of our national security. I don't think that it's one or the other. It's trying to optimize both of them. And so what we need to do is make sure we explain to the American people what are the thresholds for action, what are the procedures, the practices, the processes, the approvals, the reviews. The Office of Legal Counsel's advice establishes the legal boundaries within which we can operate. It doesn't mean that we operate at those out of boundaries. And, in fact, I think the American people will be quite pleased to know that we have been very disciplined, very judicious and we only use these authorities and these capabilities as a last resort."Joe: So there you have it.
Jason: Hey! Hold on a second! I just got to say this one thing. This guy is saying, "Hey, we kill people." He's a murderer and therefore saying, "But, don't worry, trust me. I only do it when I have to." I mean who believes a murderer?! What kind of person believes a murderer?
Joe: It's kind of ridiculous. The first thing you notice was that he said that the bullshit he came up with which he wants to optimize transparency and optimize secrecy. How do you do that?
Laura: I am still picking my jaw up off of the floor.
Joe: A bit of both? And then, obviously the legal boundaries the president would only kill an American as a last resort. But, obviously legal boundaries, like you were saying Jason, legal boundaries in this situation.
Jason: What has floored me is that I, an American, have lived to see the day when the representatives of our government would seriously entertain someone saying "can we arbitrarily kill American citizens?" I mean that is just insane! It's flabbergastingly insane! If you are an American and you hear that you are like, what the...
Joe: But that's the whole point. The whole point is it's gone to that point now...
Jason: It's gone to that point.
Joe: ...where people are...
Laura: They are actually saying things like that...
Joe: This was public.
Laura: ...in the American Senate Hearing and actually expect people to think that there is any sanity still in that government body?
Joe: Yeah, I mean he talks about legal boundaries and, you know, we have established the legal boundaries and stuff, but they already...
Jason: Where is the legal boundary?
Joe: They have already decided that they can kill American citizens on the say so of some shadowy CIA group and also the president.
Jason: We promise we won't abuse this power when you give it to us.
Joe: As long as you...
Jason: Bullshit!
Niall:The executives, whether king, tyrant, president getting this power is the crowning moment of a dictatorship or the end.
Joe: Absolutely.
Laura: It's the end of the democracy. It's freaking over! It's over!
Joe: There is that clause in the 5th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution that says that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law. Or, we can just blow you up with a drone strike.
Jason: That's a violation of the 5th Amendment just plain and simple period. No more Democracy, boom, gone.
Joe: They are having this discussion and this guy John Brennan is basically a career CIA guy. Obama tried to get him nominated, nominated him as the CIA director back in 2008 and his nomination was rejected because of his past history with, because basically he was a torture czar before he became the drone assassination czar. He was right there in the center of the whole legitimizing...
Laura: The Bush torture thing?
Joe: Under Bush, legitimatizing because he was CIA.
Laura: And Obama was going to change things.
Joe: Obama was going to change things, but he's not. He's basically...
Laura: And everything was going to be fixed.
Joe: So, this guy has this, he's a killer, basically. He's an assassination czar, right. What difference is there, if you take away the flowery words and the Senate Hearing and all this kind of stuff and the way they are discussing it in legal boundaries, what difference is there between people like him and the Nazi's, like...
Laura: There is no difference.
Joe: They all wanted to kill, they were all bloodthirsty.
Laura: It's the Night of the Long Knives all over again.
Joe: It's just what is presented in different terms, but it is exactly the same. Hang on, we've got a call. Hi caller, what's your name and where are you calling from.
Caller: My name is Michal and I am calling from Poland.
Joe: Oh, Poland. We like Poland.
Michal: [Laughs]
Laura: Yay Poland!
Joe: What's your question or comment?
Michal: Well, in fact, I called because to get this opportunity to hear you live. One question which I just had a minute ago, it was a question for Laura. You have realized a lot of things and today's topic about catastrophes and social hysteria and the question about comets. How do you think would it be possible to realize such knowledge without support from the Cassiopaeans? Another question related to this one was which was the first material which made you realize that there is something in this subject, that catastrophes are happening?
Laura: Okay, let's break this down into some questions. First, you asked would I have been able to realize this knowledge without inspirational help, shall we say. Most of the work that I have done has actually been Work because for me, inspiration is just that, it's 10 percent of the process. Everything in my book is researched, true science. I have gone through the material. I have gathered together the works from peer reviewed journals. I have gathered together the works from some of the best scientists on the planet. I have assembled it. Yes, there has been inspiration, but I would have to say that it's Work. It's Work. There is inspiration, but it's Work. So that's one thing I would say. The other thing I would say is my interests in the whole topic began when I was very, very young with the most basic questions which probably every thinking person asks, which is: Why are we here? What is our purpose? What's this all about? I am here on this planet. I have all of these various inputs and outputs in my system. What are they really for? What's the meaning of life? It just kind of took off from there. If there is any meaning to life, how does evil exist? Why are people cruel to one another? These are all basic fundamental questions. I could have, well I have spent my entire life researching those questions. For me the Cassiopaean Experiment is just a 10 percent part of what I do. 90 percent of it is freaking hard labor and these people around here sitting at this table will tell you that I read until, sometimes until my eyes literally turn red and swell and weep because there is so much material to cover.
Joe: And Michal you realize I'm sure you know or maybe you don't know but all of the data that Laura has uncovered is all out there. It's data from many different sources that exist. It's not supposition or something that she made up or something that was you know, came to her in a moment of inspiration necessarily. Surely there were little hints in the inspiration, but that just lead her to go out and look for all of the hard evidence.
Niall:And all of the hard evidence was there.
Joe: So, everything that we say is backed up by hard evidence.
Laura: And we have to give credit to the...there are marvelous theories of scientists whose work I rely on heavily. Like Fred Hoyle and Victor Clube and Mike Baillie and Mark Baillie and Bill Napier and Richard Firestone and Allen West and Simon Warwick-Smith, I mean...
Joe: They are all scientists.
Laura: These are all scientists and some of them I communicate with directly and ask them questions, which they answer for me. And that information goes into my books. So when I write stuff, it's not because I am so damn smart. It's because I am standing on the shoulders of these giant intellects. They have done some of the most amazing work. They are unsung heroes, really.
Michal: Alright. Thanks for the answers.
All: Thank you for calling!
Michal: Thank you and I wish you all the best.
Laura: Take care of Poland for us.
Michal: [Laughs] Thanks. Bye.
Laura: Okay bye bye.
Joe: Anyway yeah, so obviously people are interested in comets and stuff but...
Niall:It's not surprising after what just happened.
Joe: Yeah.
Niall:I mean this was, would you say the largest kind of event like that since Tunguska?
Laura: Yeah since Tunguska. They have said it was the biggest one in a hundred years and I would say that it was since Tunguska.
Joe: Do we want to hear it?
Laura: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Everybody, listen up here because we are going to play the sound of this exploding meteor or comet fragment, whichever it was. We extracted this from one of the videos where it was recorded and you are going to get to hear the actual sound of an exploding meteor if you haven't heard it already. I hope you have already looked at the video.
Joe: Just so you know what it sounds like if it happens again.
Audio: Meteor explosion!!
Joe: Pretty cool, huh? Sounds like a bomb.
Laura: How far away was it?
Niall:They think between ten and fifteen kilometers up.
Laura: No, I mean from that place where that recording was made?
Niall:He was just directly below it.
Joe: Well, not directly below, but you know.
Niall:He was in the city.
Joe: There was the explosion, yes so he was pretty much below it when the big one happened. And that was the detonation, the ablation. Then the other explosions you heard afterwards were either...
Laura: Smaller fragments.
Joe: Or further off hitting the ground or exploding further off as they traveled down.
Laura: Play that one more time.
Joe: You want to hear it again, huh?
Laura: Yeah, I want to hear it again. That was awesome.
Jason: You hear weird noises?
Laura: Yeah.
Joe: That was a car alarm that was going off and shattering glass.
Jason: There's another weird noise if you listen.
Niall:Reverberating booming?
Jason: No, listen very closely there is this it's not a car alarm. It's something else.
Joe: Here it is.
Audio: Meteor Explosion!!
Jason: It's not a car alarm. It's like...
Joe: Do di do di.
Jason: No, it's weird. It's almost *I don't know. It's a weird sound. I thought it was techno music when we first played it because it was like a sound in the background.
Joe: It's not something you hear every day.
Laura: Maybe it's some kind of fire alarm.
Joe: Maybe we will hear them every day.
Jason: It wasn't a pattern, like it wasn't a reoccurring pattern.
Laura: The thing is that is a pretty awesome thing to experience. The fact is there are records of people experiencing that and worse. There are descriptions of it Ancient writings. This is some of the material that I am going to be presenting in the upcoming volumes that follow The Horns of Moses. I am going to be actually quoting the direct words of some of the witnesses of these events. Now that we have, maybe we ought to include a little CD with the next book that has this recording so that people can understand what these people are talking about.
Joe: A reference.
Laura: Just imagine people back then without their knowledge of astronomy and things that we have nowadays. This was, what you just heard, was the thunderbolt of Zeus.
Joe: That is what it was called.
Laura: That was, he was really pissed off too.
Niall:Yesterday a SOTT reader put me onto a podcast by Clif High in which he claims to have been contacted by someone from the city of Glavnyy in the Gulf where this thing impacted overhead. The lady there described that as soon as the boom happened, she temporarily lost her hearing. And then it came back to her gradually. She said that there was something she couldn't really describe. She felt like, the way she described it was something happened to her brain. That her state of mind had changed.
Laura: Yeah, well I guess mine would change too after something like that. [laughter]
Jason: Life changing event right there.
Laura: That's one thing I talk in Comets and The Horns of Moses Is the potential for genetic changes involved with these kinds of events. Because there are several things that can, several things that are produced by such a body that can induce genetic changes. One is actually the light. There are electromagnetic frequencies that are emanated from the body as it passes through the atmosphere. There is some speculation by one person in a paper I read about heat shock proteins. That as the heat shock can activate certain genetic changes. Any, there is a variety of things can be happening.
Jason: There is a history of mutation. There was a mutation from the Tunguska event wasn't there?
Laura: Yeah, there were mutations not only in plants, but there was also one reported in a family where the blood type actually changed. All of the ancient stories of these kinds of disasters are accompanied by tales of freaks being born afterwards either dwarves or giants and most often, cannibals. You can excuse the cannibal references by thinking that probably after such a period or event, that there is maybe a lack of food. There was starvation was going on and people turned cannibalistic.
Jason: It's not beyond the apocalypse.
Laura: Yes, but on the other hand, some of the others, some of the Native American stories actually suggest that it was not a lack of food that turned people into cannibals, but a lust for human flesh.
Joe: Hmm. There is something to look forward to.
Laura, So, you wonder if all of these tales of werewolves and vampire and that sort of thing, are something that were offshoots of these kinds of events. After these events, there were probably several generations of extreme mutations that were being faced or dealt with by the survivors. Some of these events were pretty horrendous.
Niall:I saw an article just today about part human people being born from sheep in Nigeria. I thought, well hang on a minute. Then I remembered there have been several other stories like that.
Joe: Mmhm.
Laura: Well...
Niall: There was a man born in Turkey a couple of years back...
Laura: Well, don't get so excited about that sort of thing.
Joe: Just calm down Niall.
Laura: We are all so similar in our genetics. Human beings and all of the other creatures on the planet, there is just a few genes difference or something very often, from species to species. Some kind of genetic anomaly or some kind of fluke can cause a human to produce a child that looks animalistic or a sheep to produce something that looks...
Jason: Crab hands.
Laura: Yeah, crab hands. I mean, because if you look at embryos of different species at certain stages, sometimes you can't even tell them apart. The thing about a human, a human baby is a human baby is the most immature of creatures when it is born. It is still in a state that it should be gestated for probably another few years. If you have say a sheep embryo that had mutated to where it doesn't develop beyond the third stage of development, it would come out looking sort of human. So, don't let these kinds of tales carry you away.
Joe: We just got a couple of questions here from a listener called Michael just getting back to what you were saying about your book Comets and the Horns of Moses he quotes you and says "just as a few disease pathogens of exceptional virulence can take down a human system and incapacitate it or even kill it, so can a few deviant personalities and their networks of propagated pathogenic cohorts participate in the genesis of the kind of evil which envelopes an entire nation."
Laura: Did I write that?
Joe: Apparently.
Laura: Wow! That was a lot of alliteration there.
Joe: And, another quote. "It seems that in world where the people cannot or will not rise up against psychopathy in power, the cosmos will do it for them."
Laura: Yeah.
Joe: "And kick them out as well, for their silence and acquiescence."
Jason: Apathy is the only sin.
Joe: So his question is, we kind of answered this, his question is; are coming cataclysms is to restore our balance created by a few deviant personalities? Well, it's not just a few deviant personalities; it's an infection that spreads throughout the population.
Jason: Do you remember back in the day when Bush and the gang and all that kind of stuff were kind of like a little bit taken to task for all the crap that they were doing. All of those speeches were a few bad apples and a few bad apples and it's just a few bad apples. And I always point out that the second part of that saying is a few bad apples ruin the bunch. If you have a few bad apples, you have to throw out the entire bushel because it causes them all to rot. And that's the same kind of situation we have here if you allow your society to be taken over by pathocratic individuals...
Laura: The whole society is spoiled.
Jason: ...the whole society is pretty much perpetually spoiled. There's nothing you can do about it. You just have to wait for it to basically, the fever to burn itself out. You either die in the coals, which happens a lot with a lot of civilizations throughout history, or maybe you survive and maybe you have something.
Joe: Well, that kind of answers, more or less, the rest of his question or comment which was; why does everyone have to take the blame? He says, this is such a severe, I like the way he put this, this is such a severe paddle-whacking on the rear for god sakes.
Jason: [Laughter]
Joe: And he says, "Who in their brilliant hyper dimensional mind came up with this scheme. Is this restoring to balance an impersonal effect like gravity?"
Laura: Well, let me just say; we are sitting here, we are having this conversation, we are broadcasting this where anybody on the face of the planet could tune in and listen if they chose to. We have been writing and producing articles and books for the last umpteen years. The information is available. I say once again, if you have access to the information and you blow it off, you've made a choice, you have condemned yourself. If you have the opportunity to see what is happening to your country, to your world. If you have the capacity, which you do, you have it. If you would just chose to stop being lazy in your brain and choosing the easy way out and the easy beliefs.
Jason: Here is an example. Clay Shirky. I love Clay Shirky. He does this TED talk. Aaron Schwartz is a folk hero all this stuff. To hear about the SOPA and the PIPA Act, this goes out and basically everyone on the internet picks it up, they get access to the information and these guys were not huge comments. They just spread the information and everyone latched on to it and said "Oh Yeah!" They burned up the telephones to Congress. They sent emails, sign petitions, all of this different stuff, all this work when they heard about the SOPA and PIPA Acts. Now, you have this Brennan guy. He is in Congress and he's saying, "We can kill people, thank you for that right and promise not to do it meanly or promise not to abuse this power." So, this is totally the most ridiculous situation that you could ever possibly think of. Every Libertarian right now should be immediately...
Laura: They should be marching on Washington!
Jason: They should march! I don't think people should be violent. That is not a cause resolution. I think people should be burning up the phones to Congress. They should be sending them all of this mail. They should be doing. We were talking about this. None of them are. Is this sorry?
Joe: Yeah.
Jason: At that point, you hear about it and you don't do something about it. There's no big mass movement. There is no huge outcry. I mean, if I had to choose between the government can kill me anytime it wants or the government can monitor my internet connection, I kind of take the internet connection to be honest. Apparently, everyone else has said no. No internet censorship but its okay they can kill us.
Joe: Because you are protecting us.
Jason: Because you are protecting us.
Joe: By killing us.
Jason: And some people deserve. Getting this whole idea that oh people are so innocent, they didn't know any better. Yeah, you did. You totally knew better. Everyone knows better. Every American citizen knows better than to accept Congress legalizing the murder of American citizens. You know better.
Joe: A lot of them have been too traumatized or put into this bad state of...
Laura: They have been warned about it.
Jason: They have been warned. They have been warned since the 1700s. They have been warned by all of the founding fathers who wrote about this. Don't do this. What happened with James the 2nd when they kicked him out? I quoted this in my article. They kicked him out and were repealing his laws and one of them was that he was trying to get this right as well. That he could just basically kill anybody as long as they weren't Protestants or something like that. He has this rule he could just kill anybody with Catholic stuff. And they specifically mentioned all of the powers he was trying to seize. So like you have this situation where they have done this before. It led to things like the Constitution. It led to things like the American Revolution. All of these founding father writers basically said you can't do any of this. This is why there is the Bill of Rights. No preventing that person from having life, liberty and the pursuit of...
Joe: Due Process.
Jason: Life, liberty and property without due process of law. It was written there because people have done it in the past. Now they are doing it again and they are not doing anything about it. And then when you get killed, you don't have anyone to blame but yourselves.
Joe: They've been systematically stripping away the Constitution, the liberties in the Constitution, over the past ten or fifteen years.
Jason: This is exactly where everybody said it was going to go. The last ten or fifteen years, we have been saying it, other Libertarians have been saying it. Everybody has been saying if you give up this right, eventually it will be like Nazi Germany. Everyone was like, oh, it won't be like Nazi Germany. And now, it's like Nazi Germany. Oh Jesus.
Niall:First they came for the Jews, you know that poem.
Jason: Yeah that poem.
Laura: They didn't come for the Jews first. They came for Unionist, and then the Communists, and then the Socialists, and then the Jews and the Gypsies and the Poles and everything else. Then, when they came for me, there was no one to nobody to speak up.
Joe: Okay, so I am just going to finish Michael's questions here, or his comments. He says, "Why can't the Universe just allow us to live our collective free will? And leave us to our totally repulsive antics and see where it all takes us?" He says, "Although, I tender the thought the results would be no better than a severe Russian comet."
Laura: As of right there.
Joe: She answered some questions.
Jason: I have something to serious to say on this. It does kind of come from a really, really messed up thing. I am going to pretend for a moment that I am God. Now this is totally not an ego thing. Okay?
Joe: It never is.
Jason: I am going to pretend for a moment that I am God. I am creating the entire, I am a Creationist, other people aren't, that's okay. You don't believe that, whatever. I am going to pretend for a moment that I am God and I am creating the Universe. I am not creating the Universe for you to play Angry Birds all day and spend all your time on Facebook playing Farmville. That's not why I created the Universe. And you know what, as the Creator of the Universe, I have the right to smite you when all you do is sit and wank off in front of your computer, playing Farmville all day. I mean, seriously! People are like "Why can't the Universe just leave us alone!" No, you know what? It's my Universe. Shit, dude! You are living in it.
Niall:The Lord has spoken.
Joe: Michael's probably expressing his own, probably a fairly common thought...
Laura: He's got some existential angst going on here.
Joe: Angst going on there. But then he grasps at something and he mentions that in Laura's 2011 Barcelona talk, that's on YouTube if anyone wants to watch it, that it seems geared to what you said at that conference seemed geared to an understanding that our collective DNA is designed to overcome, in some way, a catastrophe.
Laura: No, no, no. That is not what I was saying. What I was saying was that those people who have the capacity to see the Truth, to act based on that Truth, can possibly, through the acquiring, through the acquisition of knowledge, activate certain DNA in their bodies that would enable them to be able to perceive and act according to the dictates of the Universe and thereby survive. It was nothing about anybody sitting back, playing Farmville while their DNA activates. Believe me, Farmville isn't going do it.
Joe: So then, his final question; "Should we store acorns? Pack our guns, accumulate cans of Campbell's Soup? Learn how to pray? Revitalize our hibernating skills?"
Laura: I can guarantee you if you do any of those things, your DNA will definitely not activate.
Joe: I guess it answers his last question; "Are there any actual useful things to do other than to acquire a clear understanding of the situation we are in?"
Jason: No.
Laura: Once you have a clear understanding, then you know what to do.
Joe: Well he said "I tend to think that material survival as preparation is not going to help a lot."
Laura: In some cases, it will help and in some cases it won't.
Joe: It depends on the context in which you are doing it and the reason you are doing it for.
Laura: It depends on the context in which you are doing it. It depends on why you are doing it. It depends on a whole lot of things. It depends on what you see, what you understand, how much knowledge you have. Because if you have, let me just say this, when you achieve a certain level of knowledge it's like an entire phase transition in the system. You become a different being. And that's the Truth.
Joe: Hmhm. And you have to...
Jason: The problem is when you say something like that, the first thing that comes to a new ager's mind is, I am going to be an enlightened being.
Laura: It is not the auras.
Jason: It is not what is meant by that. It's so easy to think that.
Laura: No!
Jason: The thing is, when you are a child, you have an understanding of the World. It's very, very restricted and small at a certain point. All children are all wonderful, but children are very ignorant. Children are innocent, but ignorant. We think that their ignorance is cute and call it innocence. But at a certain point, you come of age. And there is a point in your life where you stop being a child and start being an adult and you see the World completely. At that point, you have become a completely different person. You no longer see the World the way it was. You have changed. You have become able to do things that you weren't able to do before. To work in ways you weren't able to work before, and think and feel and control your emotions in ways you weren't able to do before. It is not unreasonable to say that there are also other points you can reach. Say for instance, a person who goes through an entire course of Physics goes through a kind of phase transition where suddenly they have a different understanding of the World. Correct or incorrect, it doesn't matter. They see the world differently than a brick layer. That's kind of like what we are saying. I just wanted to qualify that...
Joe: Yeah.
Jason: [Laughter] Yeah, before people starting thinking that we're going to like grow weeds or something.
Joe: We may have another call, here. Hang on. Hello caller.
Caller: Hello kiddos. Hello Laura. This is Mary from Arizona.
All: Hi Mary!
Laura: Long time!
Mary: It has been a long time and I miss you guys. I am so grateful you are doing this. I wanted to just chime in. Thinking about adding knowledge, I have been doing that so much. One of the biggest sacred cows there is, is this Constitution. I have learned that it is a private contract and it was never meant for the people. And that's why the people and the posterity were capitalized. It's so...
Laura: That's why they demanded the Bill of Rights, because they wouldn't accept the Constitution. They knew what it was. It gave them no rights.
Jason: Did you ever read the Constitution? In the Gun Show, I wanted to. I had highlighted portions. The Constitution is not a document for the People. It doesn't even mention the People pretty much at all. It doesn't mention anyone's rights. It's all about what the government can do. In fact there is actually one part of the Constitution, I don't have it word for word, where it basically says that after the point we have ratified the Constitution, we can essentially change the law in any way we want and that will become the law of the land regardless of what you say. It actually like says that in the Constitution. Once you sign this document, we can change anything and that is the new law.
Mary: Yes, that's Article 6, Section 6. The supreme law of the land will be the Constitution and any Treaties made thereof and it goes back to the law of nations and it references that. Along with the Constitution and an understanding of what is happening in the World today, is understanding the elements of Ecclesiastical law. In that, the Pope is guaranteed to be the enforcer of the laws and that he has the right to punish or dismantle any government that he sees so fit. And that, Laura, has helped me understand so much of why the U.S. then became the enforcer for the United Nations. Everything they are doing is according to their codes and their laws.
Jason: Exactly.
Joe: Yeah?
Mary: The only way out of this.
Jason: There has never been a government by and for the people.
Laura: Go ahead dear!
Mary: The only way out of this....
Joe: There is no way out. Is that what you were saying?
Mary: I'd say there is and it's through the Treaties that were signed under the international law of self-determination. It's like this, and it says this for silent weapons and quiet wars that in order to get out from this, because everybody wants to recreate the womb of a government and mama religion, that the only way out is to form your own. It's like telling your parents, "Hey, I don't like your rules anymore." But there is a codified way in which to do this and its right there in the law of nations.
Jason: Yeah, but the problem is. I totally agree. That is an actual solution to the problem, but here's the thing. In the American Civil War, you had a bunch of people who basically seceded. They basically said, you know what, screw you, we are going to do our own thing and we'll become our own type of thing, right? You have Palestine that did the same self-determination thing. And what did they do? They spent like sixty years bombing them randomly and they still haven't actually really become a State. They have only tentatively become one. So, it is possible, obviously, but you need so many people to come together and agree to do it.
Laura: And then you run the risk of all of those people being blasted back to the Stone Age by the ones with the bigger guns.
Jason: Right, so that's what happened in the Civil War. The South seceded. Everyone says it's about slavery, but it wasn't exactly about slavery, but whether or not you can nullify laws from the Union. They basically killed them, so then they lost. America's Civil War is only called the Civil War because the South lost. If it had won, it would have been called the Revolution. It just would have been called something different. The victor has decided to say no to Civil War. We handled that problem. So I mean, I totally agree, right, but then at the same time, what you have in America is you have this divide and conquer propaganda going on. It's separating everybody because, to be quite honest, what you are saying probably would have already happened if there hadn't been this constant effort to get people to not trust each other. You know, "I am a Mac user. I am a PC user." In every part of your life, you are separated from other people. If the people would get together, they could do self-determination. That totally could absolutely work, except you have to get people to realize that there is this propaganda campaign, this divide and conquer, to keep people from doing that. Because if you think about it, I was making a point, I was talking to Anna and Chu, they are doing a lot of research on this whole poverty thing, and there is huge number of people in America in like practically abject poverty. I mean, there are more people in abject poverty than died in like World War II. In close to, really bad situation, no healthcare, not anything. Most of them are living out in the street. And if all of those people were to gather together in just one physical location, it wouldn't matter where, they would be the most terrifying group of individuals. I mean fifty million people, fifty million impoverished people in the United States. Fifty million people in one geographic location and all they have to do is take a step to the right and it would be like thunder. I mean, if they were to walk down the highway towards Washington DC they, America doesn't have enough of an army and they don't have enough bullets in their guns to take on fifty million people. So yeah, totally, what you are saying could happen, except it never will. You know, there are plenty of people, and there are plenty of people who could and should do that.
Laura: But they are divided and conquered.
Jason: They are divided.
Joe: Yeah.
Jason: They are divided and conquered.
Joe: What do you think of that Mary?
Mary: Well, I see where he's going, but it has to start somewhere and it has to start in an organic fashion. If small groups are coming out together and those groups are cohesive, then there would be a counter balance. And it would be signaling to the Universe in a candid and directed way.
Laura: Do we have the time?
Jason: Okay, take for instance, here's a great metaphor for that whole situation, if you get sick, the doctor will prescribe you antibiotics. And these antibiotics are kind of hard core stuff and you have to take them for a certain amount of time. If you don't, it can actually make the disease worse. Because a little bit of the antibiotics will weaken your body and your immune system unless you keep taking it so that it can kill off all of the bad viral cells as well, then they will reinfect and your immune system is so weak that it will take it over. So, then we have this sort of problem. If you do what has been done, which are these small groups of people, a thousand people, ten thousand people in the Occupy Wall Street Movement, what they did was they all got together and they said "Hey, yeah, we're ten thousand!" Ten thousand people isn't enough. If you can't bring more than were brought for the Million Man March back in the Sixties then you are just wasting your time. You are actually making it worse because now we have police that have had lots of training exercises and real life exercises on how to suppress and control small groupings of people. So all you are basically going to do is get herded into one area and arrested. They were like arresting eight hundred people at a time. Seriously, if you don't come out and represent like a serious number of people, you are going to make it just like taking a small dose of antibiotics. You are going to make the situation worse. You are going to make it easier for them to corral you all together. You have to basically be an unmanageable mass. I always say it took a million people in the Sixties. You have to add a million for each year between now and then. If you want to get anything done, guess what? You are going to have to have...
Joe: Fifty million.
Jason: ...fifty million people doing something to get heard. Otherwise they are not going to listen to you. You are basically going to be cordoned off into one specific area. The single moment they think that you are gathering momentum like the Occupy Movement, they are going to go in and arrest as many of you as possible. Shooting you with tear gas, whatever it is and disperses you and say; "Oh, well, you were violating some law..." Then, what they are going to do is exactly what they did do. Now they have declared protests and gatherings which is supposed to be a Constitutional right, as low level terrorism. That's what killed the Occupy Wall Street.
Mary: I would have to disagree because you would be in a different legal category and they wouldn't be able to arrest you. You would basically be having legal immunities and there are codes and I have seen it with other people. This goes way beyond the patriot type of crap BS that's being...
Laura: What are you talking about specifically? I want to know. What are you, you have seen something? What have you seen and what have they done?
Mary: I have seen people pulled over by the police who have shown their passports with the diplomatic passport from this other country that would develop. I mean that was, went through the proper legal channels. I have seen the policemen not go back to the car and check. I have seen the policemen do a one hundred and eighty degree's. Apologize to the person for even pulling them over and let them go on their way.
Joe: That can work, but, sure that works for a person who does that, but the problem here is getting a large number of people to do that. How do you spread...?
Laura: Why don't you write an article about it?
Jason: Yeah. I like this idea. What countries have been created recently by this method?
Mary: Well, they are called micro nations and there have been quite a few of them to come out.
Jason: Really?
Laura: This is an idea.
Jason: I want to start my own. Write an article for this because this is super awesome. If that works, then I am totally, one hundred percent signed up. The United States of Jason.
All: Laughter.
Jason: I call it the United States.
Mary: Yes, and there is one key that fits the door like in the Matrix series. The key maker had one key before the system changed. And this is the key that was left in the codes for the international right of self-determination and which used to be called the right of self-exile.
Laura: That sounds interesting. I am going to do some research. Send us some links.
Mary: I certainly will Laura and it's so wonderful to hear you in real time. Thank you for putting this Blog Talk Radio program together.
Laura: Thanks, well it wasn't me that did it now. Let's give credit where it's due, it's Joe and Niallybob!
Joe: Wow, whatever.
Mary: Laughs
Laura: I mean I just come in here to make sure that they don't...
Joe: That we don't make any mistakes.
Laura: Well, that's not what I was going to say.
Joe: That will do as an explanation though.
Niall:Thanks for calling in Mary.
Laura: Thanks Mary. Talk to you soon.
All: Bye!
Mary: Bye bye.
Jason: Keep prayers on the faith. Bye bye.
Laura: So, I think we are at the end of our time for the night.
Joe: We are?
Jason: Time served.
Joe: You think we've served the time? Well yeah, there's a lot of stuff we didn't cover, but...
Laura: There is always next week!
Joe: Well, the main topic was this impact ablation, explosion, whatever you want to call it, a space rock over Russia.
Jason: Why couldn't you just...
Joe: What evidence...
Jason: ...call it an explosion?
Joe: Explosion or space rock or whatever. Ablation is such a good word though, isn't it?
Jason: It sounds like more of this the threshold.
Joe: I am going off to ablate.
Jason: Kind of like, we need optimize transparency to make sure that we don't pass the threshold. I mean, I would just, you know say in that you need to be able to see what we are doing so that we don't go and kill too many people.
Joe: Well, yeah, but anyway, I suppose we could have got you to hold forth on the whole historical evidence for this kind of thing...
Laura: It's too late.
Joe: ...happening before.
Laura: It's too late. You had to talk about your Brennan and...
Joe: That was ten minutes.
Laura: ...the Senate Hearings and you took up all the time doing that.
Joe: Ten minutes.
Laura: Yeah!
Joe: Anyway, as I was going to say it's all in the book so people should just simply, if they want to understand the historical context for the kind of thing that has happened recently over Russia, then they need to get a copy of Laura's book, Comets and the Horns of Moses which is available on Amazon, all Amazon websites.
Niall:I have a feeling this is going to be a hot topic for some time to come so we'll be returning to this.
Laura: I am going to bet that they are going to bury it.
Niall: They'll try.
Laura: They are going to bury it. People are going to forget about it. And then it's going to happen again and it's going to be bigger the next time.
Jason: All the people who talk about it aren't publishing in peer reviewed journals.
Laura: That's my prediction and then...
Jason: It's true.
Laura: Oh yeah, peer reviewed journals, yeah, right.
Jason: It's like, you know the sky is falling, Chicken Little! Did you publish that in a peer reviewed journal? Wait, what's that? No! I mean seriously, I don't want to make fun of the guy, but in a certain sense I have to say that argument is ridiculous, you know. If you say, I bet he wouldn't have that argument, with the whole people are getting shot and there is this rise in crime. Well, you can't say that. The trends, you see, we don't know if it's going to go up, that's the stock market. It's like they are making laws on all this stuff and people are panicking. And why don't they have that same opinion there? If you don't want to do something you find some retarded argument. What's that argument I can't remember who wrote it? That people always insist for historical, Bart Ehrman, there are more evidence than could possibly exist for an idea so that they can discredit it.
Joe: We're going to have to continue this discussion offline because, I just heard the outflow music that has signaled the end of this week's show. I'd just like to thank everybody for tuning in and listening and for the callers for your questions and comments and we'll be back next week, next Sunday. Thank you Laura and Jason hopefully, if we don't get ablated!
All: Laughter.
Joe: We're going to call it a night and we'll see y'all or rather hear y'all and you'll hear us next Sunday night again.
Goodnight!
Many claim the explosion was not of natural origins and there is no evidence to speak of but did the US or Russia
shoot this down? Please respond if you have any clues.