Society's Child
Why should religion, alone among all other kinds of ideas, be free from attempts to persuade people out of it?
We try to persuade people out of ideas all the time. We try to persuade people that their ideas about science, politics, philosophy, art, medicine, and more, are wrong: that they're harmful, ridiculous, repulsive, or simply mistaken. But when it comes to religion, trying to persuade people out of their ideas is somehow seen as horribly rude at best, invasive and bigoted and intolerant at worst. Why? Why should religion be the exception?
I've been writing about atheism for about six years now. In those six years, I've asked this question more times and not once have I gotten a satisfying answer. In fact, only once do I recall getting any answer at all. Besides that one exception, what I've gotten in response has been crickets chirping and tumbleweeds blowing by. I've been ignored, I've had the subject changed, I've had people get personally nasty, I've had people abandon the conversation altogether. But only once have I ever gotten any kind of actual answer. And that answer sucked. (I'll get to it in a bit.) I've heard lots of people tell me, at length and with great passion, that trying to persuade people out of their religion is bad and wrong and mean... but I haven't seen a single real argument explaining why this is such a terrible thing to do with religion, and yet is somehow perfectly okay to do with all other ideas.
So I want to get to the heart of this matter. Why should religion be treated differently from all other kinds of ideas? Why shouldn't we criticize it, and make fun of it, and try to persuade people out of it, the way we do with every other kind of idea?
In a free society, in the marketplace of ideas, we try to persuade people out of ideas all the time. We criticize ideas we disagree with; we question ideas we find puzzling; we excoriate ideas we find repugnant; we make fun of ideas we think are silly. And we think this is acceptable. In fact, we think it's positively good. We think this is how good ideas rise to the surface, and bad ideas get filtered out. We might have issues with exactly how this persuasion is carried out: is it done politely or rudely, reasonably or hysterically, did you really have to bring it up at Thanksgiving dinner, etc. But the basic idea of trying to convince other people that your ideas are right and theirs are wrong... this is not controversial.
Except when it comes to religion.
Why?
Religion is an idea about the world. Thousands of different ideas, really, but with one basic idea at the core of them all: the idea of the supernatural. Religion is the hypothesis that the world is the way that it is, entirely or in part, because of supernatural beings or forces acting on the natural world. It's an idea about how the world works -- every bit as much as the germ theory of disease, or the theory that matter is made up of atoms, or the wacky notion that the Earth revolves around the Sun.
And religion is a very specific kind of idea about the world. Religion is a truth claim. It's not a subjective matter of personal experience or opinion, like, "I'm a one-woman man," or "Harry Potter is better than Lord of the Rings." It is a statement about what is and is not literally true in the non-subjective world.
So if we think it's a mistaken idea, why shouldn't we try to convince other people of that?
We do this with every other kind of truth claim. If people think that disease is caused by demonic possession, or that global climate change is a hoax, or that deregulating the financial industry will lead to a robustly healthy economy for all levels of society -- and we think these people are wrong -- we try to change their minds. Why should religion be any different?
Now, of course, religion is more than just an idea. People build communities, personal identities, support systems, coping mechanisms, entire life philosophies, around their religious beliefs.
But people build identities around other ideas, too. People have intense political identities, for instance: people are often deeply attached to their identity as a progressive, a Republican or a libertarian. People build communities around these ideas, and support systems, and coping mechanisms, and life philosophies. And we still think it's entirely valid, and even positively worthwhile, to try to change people's minds about these ideas if we think they're wrong.
Why should religion be any different?
It's also the case that letting go of religious beliefs can be upsetting, even traumatic. In the short term anyway. Most atheists say that they're happy to have let go of their religion... but many do go through a short period of trauma while they're letting go.
But it can be upsetting, and even traumatic, to let go of all kinds of ideas. It can be upsetting and traumatic to learn that the clothes and chocolate and electronics you're buying are made by slave labor; that the food you're feeding your children is bad for them; that you have unconscious racist or sexist attitudes; that driving your car is contributing to global climate change and the possible permanent destruction of the environment.
And yet we still think it's valid, and even positively worthwhile, to try to change people's minds about these ideas if we think they're wrong.
Why should religion be any different?
Yes, there's a tremendous diversity of religious ideas -- a diversity that makes up a large part of our complex cultural tapestry. But we have a tremendous diversity of ideas about politics, too... and about science, and race, and gender, and sexuality, and more. When we look at our history, our complex cultural tapestry has included alchemy, and Jim Crow laws, and preventing women from voting, and curing the "disease" of masturbation, and treating yellow fever epidemics by shooting cannonballs into the air. The world is better off without those ideas. We still have a rich cultural tapestry of diverse lifestyles and worldviews without them. And we still think it was entirely valid, and even positively worthwhile, to try to change people's minds about these ideas when we thought they were wrong.
Why should religion be any different?
It's also true that persuading people out of their religion is often seen as proselytizing or evangelizing. Proselytizing or evangelizing about religion has a bad reputation. And there are good reasons for that. Religious evangelists have an ugly history of fearmongering, deception, outright lying, applying economic pressure, using law or force or even violence, to "persuade" people out of their religious beliefs. Not to mention the little matter of knocking on people's doors at eight o'clock on Saturday morning. It's no wonder people are resistant to it.
But if that's not what atheists are advocating? If we're not advocating any sort of force or coercion, or even any sort of pressure apart from the mild social pressure created by people not wanting to look foolish by hanging onto bad ideas? If what we're advocating is writing blog posts, writing magazine articles, writing books, wearing T-shirts, putting up billboards, getting into conversations with our friends and families, getting into debates on Facebook? If what we're advocating is getting our atheist ideas more widely disseminated and understood, and creating atheist communities so people who share our ideas feel safer expressing them? If what we're advocating is essentially standing up and saying, "The emperor has no clothes" -- and offering the best evidence and arguments we can for the emperor's nakedness?
What is so terrible about that? We do that with every other kind of idea. Why shouldn't we do it with religion?
Why should religion be any different?
And it's certainly true that, throughout history, many attempts to "persuade" people out of their religion have resulted in persecution -- or have provided the rationalization for it. Human beings have an ugly, bloody, terrible history of persecuting each other over religious differences: anti-Catholic hostility in America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, anti-Muslim hostility in much of Europe today, the Crusades, the Holocaust... the list goes on. And religious persecution often goes hand-in-hand with classism, jingoistic nationalism, ethnic hatreds, and racism -- rendering it even uglier. A lot of people can only see persuading people out of religion in this context of persecution, and are horrified by it. And while I disagree with their ultimate analysis, I can certainly understand their horror.
But religion isn't the only idea whose adherents have historically been targeted with persecution. Political ideas certainly have been. To take an obvious example: Look at Communism. People who thought Communism was a good idea had their lives utterly destroyed. Even if they weren't actually trying to overthrow the government. Even if all they were doing was writing, or creating art, or gassing on in cafes with their friends. Even if they weren't really Communists. McCarthyism and other Red scares destroyed the lives of countless people who were simply suspected of being Communists. And like religious persecution, anti-Communist fervor has often been closely tied with nationalism, ethnic hostilities, and more. Immigrants from Eastern Europe, for instance, were often feared and despised as "dirty Commies," with the political hostility becoming inextricably tangled with the xenophobic nationalism, and each form of hostility feeding the other.
Does that mean we shouldn't criticize Communism? Does that mean that, if we think Communism isn't a particularly good system for structuring an economy, we should just keep our mouths shut?
When we criticize religion -- just as when we criticize any other kind of idea -- we do need to make sure that criticism of the idea doesn't turn into persecution of its adherents. We need to draw a careful line between criticizing ideas and marginalizing people. We need to remember that people who disagree with us are still people, deserving of basic compassion and respect.
But we need to draw that line with every kind of idea. Political, scientific, artistic ideas -- all of them. And we don't exempt any other kind of idea from criticism, just because that kind of idea has often been targeted with persecution.
Why should religion be any different?
Why should religion be treated any differently from any other kind of idea about the world? Why, alone among all other ideas, should it be protected from criticism, questions, mockery when it's ridiculous, excoriation when it's appalling? Why, alone among all other ideas, should we not try to persuade people out of it if we think it's mistaken?
Why should religion be the exception?
I've asked this question more times than I can remember. And I've only ever gotten one straight answer. In one argument on Facebook (which was ages ago, so unfortunately I can't find it and link to it), the person I was debating argued that religious debates and disagreements have a bad history. All too often, they've led to hostility, hatred, tribalism, bigotry, even violence and wars. Therefore, he argued, it was best to just avoid debates about the topic altogether.
You know what? He's right. When it comes to the divisiveness of religion, he's totally right.
And that's an argument for my side -- not his.
I completely agree with his basic assessment. Religion does tend to be more divisive than other topics. It's a point Daniel Dennet made in his book, Breaking the Spell: In a weird but very real psychological paradox, people tend to defend ideas more ferociously when we don't have very good evidence supporting them.
Look at it this way. If people come over the hill and tell us that the sky is orange, we can clearly see that the sky is blue... so we can easily shrug off their ridiculous idea, and we don't feel a powerful need to defend our own perception. But if people come over the hill and tell us that God comes in three parts, one of whom is named Jesus, and this three-in-one god really wants us not to eat meat on Fridays -- and we think there is no god but Allah, and he really wants us to never eat pork or draw pictures of real things -- we don't have any way to settle the disagreement. The only evidence supporting our belief is, "My parents tell me," My religious leader tells me," "My holy book tells me," or "I feel it in my heart." And if we care about our belief -- if it's not some random trivial opinion, if it's central to our personal and social identity -- we have a powerful tendency to double down, to entrench ourselves more deeply and more passionately in our belief. We can't have a rational, evidence-based debate about the matter. The only way to defend our own belief is with bigotry, tribalism, and violence.
But if religious differences really are more likely to lead to bigotry, tribalism, violence, etc.... doesn't that show what a bad idea it is? If the ideas of religion are so poorly rooted in reality that there's no way to resolve differences other than forming battle lines and screaming or shooting across them... doesn't that strongly suggest that this is a truly crappy idea, and humanity should let go of it? Doesn't that suggest that persuading people out of it is a really good thing to do?
So yeah. This wasn't such a great answer. But at least it was an answer. At least it wasn't a changing of the topic, a moving of the goalposts, a deterioration into personal insult, a complete abandonment of the conversation altogether. Every other time that I've asked, "Why should religion, alone among all other kinds of ideas, be free from attempts to persuade people out of it?" I've been met with what was essentially silence.
I've gotten tremendous hostility over the years for my attempts to persuade people out of religion. I've been called a racist and a cultural imperialist, trying to stamp out the beautiful tapestry of human diversity and make everyone in the world exactly like me. I've been called a fascist, have been compared to Stalin and Glenn Beck. My atheist activism has been compared to the genocide of the Native Americans. I've even been called "evil in one of its purest forms" -- as have many other atheist writers; I'm hardly the only target of this. All this, for trying to persuade people that their idea is mistaken, and our idea is correct. The atheism itself gets hostile opposition as well, of course: it gets called immoral, amoral, hopeless, meaningless, joyless, and more. But the very idea of presuming to engage in this debate -- the very idea of putting religion on one side of a chessboard and atheism on the other, and seeing which one gets check-mated -- is regularly treated as a bigoted and intolerant violation of the basic principles of human discourse.
And yet when I ask why -- why it's okay to persuade people out of other ideas but not this one, why religion alone should be exempt from the vigorous criticism that every other idea is expected to stand up to, why religion alone should get a free ride in the marketplace of ideas (and a free ride in an armored car at that), why religion should be the sole exception -- I've only ever gotten one crappy answer, one time.
Does anyone have a better answer?
Or any answer at all?
Greta Christina has been writing professionally since 1989, on topics including atheism, sexuality and sex-positivity, LGBT issues, politics, culture, and whatever crosses her mind. She is on the speakers's bureaus of the Secular Student Alliance and the Center for Inquiry.
Reader Comments
the psychopathic Powers-That-Be who own and control the planet
" Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."
Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel’s Philosophy of Right
Religion on the other hand is minimal intellect and big portion emotional at least nowadays. This means big connection because emotions are a stronger bond. The idea of a connection between you as a mortal to an eternal being, the ultimate creator. Some people can't severe that connection because to severe it is to condemn themselves to a world of terrestrial affairs with no hope of transcendence or worse, hell.
Ultimately most want to transcend.... Maybe also sometimes people cling onto religion because they sense there is something more, more than what they see so it's not about transcendence just holding onto a rudimentary whiff of a feeling.
However I wouldn't say that religion gets a free ride nowadays, has the author not run into an atheist debating with a religious person?
And it can be summed up with the words, "early childhood trauma."
Because that is what they do. Even if they don't physically abuse the children, the psychological pushing is fairly constant. You all know the story. "You'll go to hell!" Etc. Etc. Etc.
My parents didn't dump much religion on my siblings and I. When we got punished it was for something real. Stealing. Breaking things. Staying out too late. Fighting. They never talked about god. They just made sure you'd think twice before trying that (whatever it was) again
But for kids in religious families it's fear fear and more fear. It all gets internalized. When you push the religion button in an adult raised that way all that fear wells up and gets transformed into anger and violence and all the fun and murderous stuff we've seen over the past few thousand years.
Kind of like that song by Peter Gabriel. Fear is the Mother of Violence. I'm not sure if that was a lyric or the title. I haven't heard it in a while.
@lucky luke
i figured u would... Yes!! + You 2!!
.... i write you back the other day.
.... it's cause de white lamb tink wit de pope's mind.
.... kinda stuck in our mythology
shake it off man ... brrrrruuee ;-)
...and the author is an evangelist.
She claims that theistic religions get a free pass, not realizing that she is demanding that her non-theistic religion get a free pass.
She is a hypocrite, and she is blithely unaware of her own hypocrisy.
BTW, I am a non-theist myself, and I share some of her attitudes toward theistic religions. However, in the same way that I resent it when theists try to push their beliefs on me, I recognize that they would have the same right to resent my pushing my beliefs on them.
I also infer that she is a true believer in climate change, and that she has contempt for those who don't share her belief.
Ironic, isn't it?
It's all most people have in the way of hope to cling to, when the world around them is supremely hostile.
Religion is what is left over after the carcass of an awakening has long been buried, so it still retains a few keys to aid the searcher. Religion itself, or any such system, is not the answer we seek.
Why would anyone want to destroy what little hope another has?
Greed, power, control. In this case, Religion is the end, and not what it was originally intended for: a particular means among many.
When amongst believers of the same kind, you may sing to the choir.
When not, you must approach carefully, so as not to injure another's Free Will. We should treat another as we would wish them to treat us.
Now to answer the question.
If Religion as an end is the parasite that gets the free ride, then we have intolerance and all manner of conflict.
Religion as a means is tolerance. Nobody has to answer for the choices that were forced upon them, but they do have to answer for the choices they made.
The Great Question: Why are we here?
As far as I have been able to tell, from examination of as many beliefs as there are records for, we are here because we chose to be here. Not only that, but I strongly suspect we agreed to the time, place, personality, body, family, etc.
What!! Persuade people out of something that's a lie, makes you 'feel good' (special) and is a mechanism for social control? Is he insane?
Why should any person be convinced into thinking its a good idea? If they did, you might just get to see the man behind the curtain. Religion, lets admit it, is society's can of worms.
Let me just find and replace a few words...
"I've gotten tremendous hostility over the years for my attempts to persuade people out of atheism. I've been called a racist and a cultural imperialist, trying to stamp out the beautiful tapestry of human diversity and make everyone in the world exactly like me. I've been called a fascist, have been compared to Bush and Pat Robertson. My Christian activism has been compared to the genocide of the Native Americans. I've even been called "evil in one of its purest forms" -- as have many other Christian writers; I'm hardly the only target of this"
I just find it hilarious that most of the article would read exactly the same if you replace a couple words here and there. That said, I don't disagree terribly that religion gets a free pass that it should not. At the same time I've never met a preaching atheist I've liked. She seems to be preaching it. She could have examined it more in depth or done research. I feel like I've read this same thing by atheists multiple times. All in all, I guess her version is less annoying.
Being Black is not a choice.
Being white is not a choice.
Being a man is not a choice.
Being a woman is not a choice.
Being born blind is not a choice.
Heterosexuality is not a choice.
Homosexuality is not a choice.
Marriage is a choice.
Lying is a choice.
Deception is a choice.
Tolerance is a choice.
Ignorance is a choice.
Knowledge is a choice.
Hate is a choice.
Religion is a choice.
You choose your institution. If your choice leads you to hate, to be intolerant or, to live in ignorance and a majority are nurtured by this institution then it would benefit the human race to choose truth and love.
Atheism, as far as I know, has never been used as an excuse to murder and subjugate. A wise man once suggested that one should respect everyone's religion. However, if your religion includes justifying murder and hatred, then I for one will have no respect for you nor your religion and will treat you accordingly.
This is a topic that always brings the heat to any conversation.
Yes it has....
[Link]
If I go to the church and i say "Hello there, god just spoke to me and he says that you are really on the wrong way with all of that, so can you please go somewhere and do something that really matters instead of doing nothing and talking bs".
So, as i understand, people will call me "crazy" because there is no way i can speak to the god.
God speaks only to ?
Who can speak with him/her? Any living human that can do that? so we can finally drop this theme and all themes connected to it.
Speaking about " god and the gang" is similar to speaking about UFO, except WE GOT SOME PICTURES OF UFO
You create followers by installing fear of either not being part of something or being not excepted by something. Religion now has a replacement which is social media, some similarities are:
You join because all your friends join
You cant quit because of fear of not being part of the group or being ostracized
You can deal with your own and others deaths because your memories will live forever
If you preach the right things people tell you they like you
Religion has always been a tool to control populations which we are now seeing from Facebook
Soon religions will see Facebook as a way to getting more follower, this will be a mistake as Facebook will take those followers away and convert them into the way of social media or social religion as it should be called!